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портников

portnikov

00:00:00

[music]

00:00:03

St. Vitaliy I congratulate you, it is obvious that

00:00:08

the topic of the meeting between Sidinpin and Joe Biden in

00:00:10

San Francisco is probably the leading

00:00:13

such topic this week, but with your

00:00:15

permission, Vitaliy, I would still like to start

00:00:18

with the fact that we have already had time to start

00:00:21

discussing this today after all,

00:00:23

President Zelensky's meeting with

00:00:26

journalists and some of the information that was

00:00:28

discussed there has already appeared, so

00:00:30

let's return to the topic of Biden and Xi

00:00:33

Jinping a little later, but after all,

00:00:36

some of the president's statements are so fresh

00:00:39

today. I would like you to

00:00:41

comment on this meeting with

00:00:45

by a group of journalists, as some news agencies have already written,

00:00:48

and President Zelenskyi

00:00:52

used the term Maidan 3 there, by the way, some

00:00:56

people on social networks have already started to

00:00:58

be indignant about why Maidan 3 was actually used,

00:01:00

but it is necessary to give a little

00:01:02

context, President Zelenskyi said

00:01:04

that Russia is trying to destabilize

00:01:06

the situation in the country

00:01:08

to carry out a coup or

00:01:11

overthrow the government and for internal

00:01:14

use they use Maidan 3 because, as

00:01:17

President Zelensky says, it is obvious that

00:01:19

for Russians this has a negative connotation. with

00:01:31

such internal moments,

00:01:34

perhaps with the lines of discussion in society,

00:01:37

we can see it. No, I don't see it, you don't

00:01:40

see it, I think that the President

00:01:42

expressed himself poorly when he used the term

00:01:45

Maidan. He probably meant

00:01:48

coups as such, but I don't know what

00:01:50

he relied on, it's not up to me question Uhu

00:01:55

Well, he could have relied on some information

00:01:57

that you and I don't know, for example Yes,

00:01:59

we can also assume that, but yes Yes, but

00:02:02

in any case, then a few more Let's go

00:02:05

then yes, your position on this

00:02:07

matter is also interesting because, well, exactly part of

00:02:09

those who us a part of our

00:02:12

audience is listening and will say, look at the language

00:02:14

scandals that have been discussed for two weeks, there is the

00:02:16

conditional character of Mrs. Farion, and there is history

00:02:19

and statements, and there are some false starts, and so

00:02:22

on. Oleksiy Arsetovych, look what

00:02:25

is being done, how restless, anxious,

00:02:27

destabilized, how we are quarreling with each other

00:02:29

and so on Well, a part of

00:02:31

society definitely perceives this as signs

00:02:33

and attempts

00:02:36

to destabilize it. Maybe this is a problem of a

00:02:38

part of

00:02:40

society, you should not react to it

00:02:44

so emotionally and think that these are some

00:02:46

things that we should focus on

00:02:49

now, listen, we should focus

00:02:51

on the issue of the survival of the Ukrainian state It

00:02:53

seems to me that I agree with you That's

00:02:56

all I'm with you And that's all And that's all Well, we

00:02:59

had some kind of disputes before the

00:03:01

great invasion, let's assume that

00:03:04

now the situation for many

00:03:10

people has changed so much

00:03:13

[music]

00:03:15

that they think it's possible to move on to

00:03:18

public discussions Well, they have stabilized,

00:03:20

but in fact the situation has not

00:03:23

stabilized, well, actually, this is what I wanted to

00:03:26

hear from you because it is probably

00:03:28

important to listen to those parts of the people who

00:03:31

actually listen to your opinion and

00:03:33

respect it, then we will return to the

00:03:35

topic that was also so much expected And

00:03:39

actually she told connected with the meeting of the

00:03:41

leaders of the American leader Joe

00:03:43

Biden and the Chinese leader Xi Jinping in

00:03:45

San Francisco for the first time in six years.

00:03:47

That is, all these moments are ritual, obviously

00:03:51

our audience has heard, but I remind them

00:03:53

again for the sake of context, and in the end there

00:03:56

were different statements and, by the way, different assessments

00:03:59

from the Chinese side and from the American

00:04:00

side, there were also great expectations

00:04:03

from this meeting. Will the topic of Ukraine

00:04:06

or the topic of the Ukrainian war be a

00:04:08

topic of this meeting? What did you see, Vitaly, in

00:04:11

the end? I had no

00:04:14

idea that the

00:04:16

topic of the Ukrainian war would dominate the

00:04:20

meeting of the president of the United States. of the

00:04:22

People's Republic of China or

00:04:24

in principle to be mentioned and it was obvious to both of them

00:04:28

that they can talk about it,

00:04:30

but this is definitely not the situation when you

00:04:32

can solve such issues, so

00:04:35

for me it was important simply that they

00:04:37

talked to each other that there is some

00:04:40

contact and how much this contact will contribute

00:04:43

reducing the level of tension, I don't

00:04:46

know because we have seen situations,

00:04:49

remember when the Secretary of State of

00:04:52

the United States was going

00:04:55

to fly to China

00:04:58

and

00:05:01

to China He had an official visit to the

00:05:05

People's Republic of China and it is

00:05:09

absolutely obvious that this visit would have

00:05:11

taken place but this air the ball

00:05:13

rolled back at once, it is not known

00:05:16

how far, yes,

00:05:18

something similar can also happen now, we do not see a

00:05:21

fundamental

00:05:22

readiness for understanding, and this is a huge

00:05:26

problem, because these agreements

00:05:29

reached between Joseph Biden and

00:05:32

Seizenpin are nothing,

00:05:34

Tatyana, you understand nothing simply We are glad that

00:05:38

they have restored what used to be between

00:05:40

China and the United States before the visit of

00:05:43

nanzipeles the possibility of consultation among the

00:05:45

military among the military Yes We are

00:05:47

glad that China has again promised

00:05:51

[music]

00:05:53

to limit

00:05:56

the I would

00:05:58

say

00:06:00

role in promoting opiates to the American

00:06:04

market that it plays there smuggling

00:06:07

industry, well, the Chinese have already promised it

00:06:09

many times, that is, it is not a fact that they will

00:06:11

even do it, it is not a fact that

00:06:13

they absolutely definitely promised it, they have never

00:06:15

done it, it is not a fact that they will do it again now,

00:06:17

well, they promised again and

00:06:19

may not do it again, that is, what is it,

00:06:27

what is it talk Well it turns out We are

00:06:31

happy about the contact as such and We are happy about

00:06:34

the contact as such because we believe

00:06:36

that this contact will help stabilize

00:06:38

the situation in the world, if we are honest, then

00:06:41

Ukrainian expectations are that Biden will tell

00:06:43

sidzenpin and sidzenpin will tell Putin and

00:06:46

the war will immediately end, well, this is the office of

00:06:49

simple solutions, well I would like it to be

00:06:52

so, but we understand that Biden is

00:06:55

unlikely to say anything to Sidznpin, and the most important thing is

00:06:58

that I am not sure that he can say

00:07:00

something to Putin that will convince the president of

00:07:02

the Russian

00:07:04

Federation, this is also not necessary to exaggerate the

00:07:06

level of Beijing's influence on

00:07:09

Moscow,

00:07:11

and we perfectly understand that China is not

00:07:14

interested in the fact that this war was

00:07:15

ending, he is interested in the fact that

00:07:17

it continues because this war

00:07:19

objectively weakens both Russia and the West and

00:07:22

what is wrong with China.

00:07:32

that he will say something there that

00:07:35

fewer shells will be supplied,

00:07:36

for example, what is possible, we do not know What is the

00:07:39

real influence of Beijing on such decisions by

00:07:41

North Korea. I ask again. And why

00:07:44

should China be interested in North

00:07:46

Korea supplying Russia with fewer shells?

00:07:49

Why, well, that is also a good question

00:07:53

true Yes, no, I agree with this, that is, at the same time,

00:07:57

this is the assessment that it is good that

00:08:00

this meeting took place, it is a bit naive,

00:08:02

naive and

00:08:04

perception No, it is good that this meeting

00:08:06

took place. In the world in which we live, it is

00:08:09

better that they talk than

00:08:11

fight, that is one way or another, there is some

00:08:16

postponement of the tension between the

00:08:19

two of them, after all, it can be assumed that what actually

00:08:22

happened between them now, I don't know about

00:08:25

Ukraine now, but about China and the United States,

00:08:27

I think that there was

00:08:29

just such a dialogue that took place, how much

00:08:32

the tension decreased We remember as the Soviet

00:08:35

American leaders talked to each

00:08:37

other many times And there

00:08:39

was no reduction in tension if you remember

00:08:41

Well, yes

00:08:42

So I can't, I can't guarantee you the

00:08:47

actual reduction in tension, I just

00:08:50

can't A But I'm not asking for your guarantees

00:08:53

because I know how you are Be careful

00:08:55

with guarantees and forecasts. And even more so

00:08:58

when we may have a lack of

00:09:00

information and so on. But what we see

00:09:02

in the public space may not

00:09:04

be reflected at all or may not be what will

00:09:08

actually happen from the point of view of

00:09:12

Ukraine in general But you should not even

00:09:15

think that somewhere this question could arise

00:09:17

as a point of conflict in this

00:09:19

conversation, I think that there are many

00:09:22

conflicting moments, but we perfectly

00:09:24

understand that the first thing that the Soviet Union will

00:09:27

do is to say that it has nothing to do with what

00:09:28

happened to the

00:09:32

decisions of Russia and in fact between Ukraine and

00:09:34

Russia that he does not help Ukraine and Russia

00:09:37

militarily and that I am not theirs And the house

00:09:41

is not mine and this is all absolutely obvious to me

00:09:44

And at the same time, can we say

00:09:48

that this meeting, so to speak, records

00:09:52

some such

00:09:55

xizenping's bipolarity would like it to

00:09:57

exist bipolar Uhu because he

00:10:00

sees the world as bipolar but I don't think

00:10:03

that the United States sees the world that way

00:10:05

shenping would like to divide

00:10:09

this world between the United States and the

00:10:13

People's Republic of China so that they

00:10:16

can agree on all this But I don't think so that

00:10:19

this is a realistic view of things,

00:10:21

agree, and well, the restriction of fentanyl

00:10:23

in the end Well, it is too strange to be happy

00:10:26

about it, but at the same time we are discussing it

00:10:29

here, it should be added that the Ministry of

00:10:32

Foreign Affairs of China, by the way, stated that

00:10:34

the negotiations of this Biden did not

00:10:35

change the position of the PRC regarding the war with Russia

00:10:38

against Ukraine, that is, did they speak or not?

00:10:40

This is another question. I was not there, of course, at

00:10:42

this meeting, but here is the official statement of the

00:10:44

Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China. In any case, it did not

00:10:47

change anything, that is, in fact.

00:10:51

This is what

00:10:56

Joseph Biden actually definitely wanted to talk about with Sydzenpin

00:11:00

about this war. But again, to what extent

00:11:02

he could meet the understanding of

00:11:05

Sydzenpin. I just don't know, you understand,

00:11:07

we are talking about what we

00:11:08

can think about, in principle, that it is so

00:11:11

we rely on official documents, as

00:11:13

you understand it. Official documents

00:11:16

do not talk about it, that is, the Chinese do

00:11:18

not

00:11:19

mention it at all. There is no optimism from you today,

00:11:22

but in the end, I know that we

00:11:25

expect realism from you usually, and that is why

00:11:27

we should be optimistic. then a

00:11:30

slightly different topic was also discussed. And

00:11:35

again, now you will say that I am

00:11:37

probably speculating and trying to talk about

00:11:40

something that I do not know about, because I

00:11:42

was not at this meeting, but it could be

00:11:44

important because the United

00:11:45

States' aid to Ukraine is obviously important that the

00:11:48

attitude of the United States and stable

00:11:50

support for Ukraine is important, that's why I'm

00:11:53

actually talking about this trip of the Ukrainian

00:11:54

delegation to Washington, it was officially

00:11:56

called an economic mission under the

00:11:58

leadership of Prime Minister

00:11:59

Kesveridenko, but there was also the head of the

00:12:01

presidential office Andriy Yarmak,

00:12:05

could there be any

00:12:08

conditions other important negotiations on which

00:12:11

this stable

00:12:13

support of the United States may depend. I think that

00:12:15

stable support may depend on an

00:12:16

agreement between the Republicans and

00:12:18

Democrats. Now these consultations between

00:12:21

them are going on. They are not easy. It is not known

00:12:25

how far

00:12:26

they will be able to

00:12:30

achieve any real success.

00:12:35

I hope that they will be able to

00:12:39

exchange, well, how should I put it, these

00:12:42

decisions

00:12:48

on security at the borders of the United

00:12:51

States for decisions on aid to Ukraine and

00:12:54

Israel.

00:13:08

then to think

00:13:11

that Ukraine should fulfill

00:13:15

some more requests, some more conditions, some more

00:13:17

soft nudges from

00:13:19

the United States, this is not

00:13:20

related to Ukraine at all,

00:13:26

it is related, of course, to what

00:13:30

we talked about recently with the elections in

00:13:33

In the United

00:13:36

States, I immediately think why are we

00:13:39

then discussing so much what

00:13:41

Ukraine should do? Well, because Ukraine

00:13:43

also has its own tasks that we have to do there, and

00:13:45

there regarding reforms and regarding the possible

00:13:49

greater subjectivity of the parliament, and there I do

00:13:51

not know of any attempts to support democracy and

00:13:54

so on, that is, but you say that it does not

00:13:56

matter in this case. I believe that the

00:13:59

current situation with support for Ukraine

00:14:01

depends on the domestic political

00:14:03

situation in the United States. The president of the

00:14:05

United States appealed to the

00:14:07

American Congress to

00:14:09

allocate money for Israel, Ukraine and

00:14:11

Taiwan, so the American Congress It does

00:14:14

not do this. By the way, it does not

00:14:16

allocate money to Israel either, but you can ask

00:14:18

Israel what it should do, what it should do, and I will

00:14:21

ask Israel what it should do, and

00:14:23

Taiwan what it should do. Here is the will of the

00:14:25

American administration,

00:14:29

and it is actually already a pre-election year. that

00:14:33

started. That's

00:14:39

all inside and it's just necessary to

00:14:42

take into account that our delegation went

00:14:45

to the United States. It's good because I

00:14:46

hope they talked to those

00:14:48

people who would not really like to

00:14:51

give us help, but you understand that

00:14:53

helping us is also part of this

00:14:54

internal political

00:14:56

game. And talking with those people who would not

00:14:59

want to give us help in general,

00:15:03

in fact, we see that this

00:15:05

could arise now, and because until now this is the

00:15:08

issue that arose, but there was no such

00:15:10

noticeable activity to conduct conversations with

00:15:13

those people who doubt in supporting

00:15:15

Ukraine with that Prada wingman, but

00:15:18

the question arises, do they doubt that

00:15:19

Ukraine should be supported or do

00:15:20

they doubt that there is a need to

00:15:22

worsen relations with Russia, this is also a

00:15:24

good question, yes, yes, and here it is

00:15:26

not known how we will convince them if they

00:15:29

believe that it is necessary to restore relations

00:15:30

with Russia, no matter what we tell them,

00:15:33

they will be in their position

00:15:35

because they have a different view of

00:15:39

reality, it's simple, but I would like to

00:15:42

remind you

00:15:44

that you and

00:15:49

I have been talking about this for a long time,

00:15:52

that the situation is complicated, that before the

00:15:57

election year there will be

00:16:00

difficult and it is absolutely obvious

00:16:04

such a situation, first today we

00:16:07

are observing

00:16:09

that it started earlier than we

00:16:11

expected, obviously earlier in connection with what

00:16:13

happened in the American

00:16:17

Congress because if there was no change of

00:16:19

speaker there would not be this whole story, it is

00:16:22

possible This it would start there after Christmas,

00:16:26

there in January after the Christmas holidays, and

00:16:30

since it actually started

00:16:34

now, in fact, in the background of this deep

00:16:37

crisis in the Republican Party itself,

00:16:40

we have a reality that we have to

00:16:43

deal with, and it is a difficult reality,

00:16:45

because we understand that even

00:16:47

if the project which proposed by

00:16:52

President Biden will be approved, it is

00:16:53

still a reduction of aid, of course,

00:16:56

compared to what was

00:16:59

before.

00:17:14

American funds, money to help

00:17:16

Ukraine, but this is not a simple situation, but

00:17:18

again, we have been talking about this since the first

00:17:21

months of

00:17:22

the war, that war cannot be done - it is not just you

00:17:25

know the Autobahn highway on which

00:17:28

you drove and will drive like this until the end of

00:17:30

the war with constant refueling stable

00:17:33

constant refueling and with the constant

00:17:34

change in political conditions, unfortunately, unfortunately,

00:17:39

we all would like it to be different, but

00:17:41

I just don't really understand how to change it, I

00:17:43

don't really understand either, and besides the United

00:17:45

States, well, that is, the funds you mention, and

00:17:47

maybe not in the United States, but I I also

00:17:49

don’t understand whether there is another economy that is

00:17:51

capable of coping with such a

00:17:53

large-scale aid, for example, there is no such economy, that’s why

00:17:56

this

00:17:59

situation is very difficult.

00:18:07

options for support here could be

00:18:11

non-standard, for which it depends on the

00:18:14

President of the United States of the

00:18:15

American administration. They have to

00:18:16

understand how to solve this issue,

00:18:18

in fact, it is their

00:18:21

issue. to

00:18:31

what extent it will help President Biden and

00:18:33

his

00:18:34

party, will it not help during

00:18:36

the elections, this is definitely not the first, not the

00:18:39

number one issue for the Democrats and for

00:18:41

President Biden, but it is a question of the

00:18:43

president fulfilling his functions and

00:18:44

his obligations. The president promised to

00:18:47

help Ukraine and help Israel. This is an

00:18:49

important part of his foreign policy

00:18:51

strategy, and if you and I

00:18:53

observe a situation in which the

00:18:55

president of the United States cannot

00:18:57

fulfill his obligations, this is bad

00:18:58

for his public image, and

00:19:00

President Biden knows this very well, he is an

00:19:02

experienced politician. Believe me, I think

00:19:04

he thinks too. How to solve this situation

00:19:06

well, we hope. And this

00:19:10

week, I would like you to comment on a statement that I would like you to

00:19:12

comment on, and it can certainly be

00:19:14

important. It was made by the former

00:19:18

Secretary General of NATO, Andersomf

00:19:20

von Fogg.

00:19:28

that it is necessary to

00:19:30

look for ways to guarantee security for

00:19:32

Ukraine, it is possible to be a partial member of

00:19:35

NATO without the territories currently occupied by the Russian

00:19:37

Federation, to what extent is

00:19:38

this

00:19:41

statement from your point of view, I don't

00:19:43

know, there is a check of throwing it into the

00:19:45

information field, the possibility of

00:19:47

discussing it, because somehow it

00:19:48

sounds too ideal for In Ukraine, such an

00:19:51

option has been discussed since March-April of

00:19:53

last year, and as far as I remember, on the

00:19:56

sidelines of political parties, and as far as I remember,

00:19:57

I myself talked about it as a

00:19:59

repeated warrant, and even in our country, they have

00:20:03

already started talking about it out loud,

00:20:05

as far as possible to implement it I don't

00:20:07

know. I think that this is really the right

00:20:10

option, because it implies the

00:20:13

localization of the war. They are always

00:20:16

trying to present this option to us as peace in

00:20:19

exchange for territory, but this is not the case.

00:20:21

No one is suggesting that we give up the

00:20:22

territory.

00:20:25

security guarantees can be provided in the

00:20:27

event of our acceptance into NATO or in the event that

00:20:29

we are invited to NATO for those

00:20:31

territories that are under the control of the

00:20:34

legitimate Ukrainian government and we have

00:20:36

no choice to receive

00:20:39

e-cont security guarantees for these

00:20:41

territories or for the entire territory of

00:20:43

Ukraine from us there is actually a choice to get

00:20:46

security guarantees for the territory

00:20:48

controlled by the legitimate Ukrainian

00:20:50

government or to get nothing at all, you see,

00:20:51

this is a real choice, everything

00:20:54

else is slogans.

00:21:04

for the entire territory of Ukraine,

00:21:06

however, there is the number one question A What to do

00:21:07

before that If there is an opportunity to localize

00:21:11

the war If there is an opportunity to localize

00:21:13

missile strikes in Russia, then Of course

00:21:15

I would like it to be done so again right

00:21:17

here we need not just a statement of the

00:21:19

retired NATO Secretary General

00:21:20

here the political will of the United

00:21:22

States. First of all, it is the United

00:21:24

States that essentially give us these

00:21:26

security guarantees, and if it is the

00:21:29

political will of the United States, then

00:21:31

you mean that it could have an

00:21:33

impact on those countries that are, for example, members of

00:21:35

NATO, I mean and that can to be

00:21:37

against this idea, it is obvious that

00:21:39

they can be security guarantees

00:21:42

of the Swedish type. When Ukraine receives an

00:21:45

invitation to NATO and precisely the

00:21:46

security guarantees of the United States and

00:21:49

joins NATO. By the way, when the

00:21:51

issue of territorial integrity is already being resolved,

00:21:53

this can be And here

00:21:55

there is another question regarding

00:21:57

international law, well, that is, by

00:21:58

and large, the restoration of

00:22:00

international law itself is very important,

00:22:02

and actually not only for Ukraine and for the

00:22:05

entire world security system. And then what

00:22:07

is done with this if the territories here are

00:22:10

occupied by Russia and entered there

00:22:12

unconstitutionally in its Constitution, they

00:22:15

actually remain without these

00:22:17

security guarantees, but NATO recognizes that these

00:22:20

territories are Ukrainian Ukrainian

00:22:22

International law is the recognition of the fact of

00:22:24

who owns the territory from the point of

00:22:26

view of specific states and the International

00:22:28

Community, this is international law and

00:22:30

control over territories this is already a question of

00:22:32

war and not of international law. Apart from that,

00:22:35

Tatyan, I have to tell you honestly that we also

00:22:37

have to say that the restoration of

00:22:39

international law is a very

00:22:41

ephemeral issue, in my opinion, I think that

00:22:44

international law can no longer be restored;

00:22:48

Yes, the international

00:22:52

law that existed after the Second World

00:22:54

War was destroyed by Russia in 2014. That is,

00:22:59

there were certain

00:23:01

convulsions, well, with Transnistria,

00:23:04

Abkhazia, and South Ossetia, you

00:23:05

remember yes, but the final

00:23:08

international law was destroyed in 2014.

00:23:12

This is the law that existed in the Geltsen

00:23:15

Act will not succeed in restoring international law, it is

00:23:22

only possible to build a new system of

00:23:24

international

00:23:26

law, this is an

00:23:29

ambitious task, I do not know how long it

00:23:31

will take, years or decades, but now

00:23:34

you and I live in a world where international

00:23:36

law does not exist Well, this is a

00:23:38

reality if one state can

00:23:40

annex the territory of another A no one else

00:23:43

can do anything with this state, and

00:23:45

even diplomatic relations with this

00:23:46

state will be supported by the truth. Well,

00:23:49

practically all countries of the world

00:23:51

maintain diplomatic relations with Russia, with the

00:23:53

exception of those countries

00:23:56

whose territories were either annexed or

00:23:58

recognized as independent states, this is Georgia

00:24:00

and

00:24:01

Ukraine, which means international law

00:24:05

destroyed and it may not be

00:24:07

restored, but

00:24:10

built on other new

00:24:13

foundations, and it is very important for us that this

00:24:15

international law takes into account the integrity of

00:24:17

Ukraine within its borders of 1991. That's all,

00:24:21

but the process of creating a new international

00:24:23

law has not even begun since 2014,

00:24:27

we

00:24:28

live in conditions of absence international

00:24:30

law has been around for 10 years, soon this process can

00:24:33

be long because the world has lived like this sometimes

00:24:35

for ten years.

00:24:48

in order for our

00:24:50

borders

00:24:51

to be recognized as they are from the point of

00:24:54

view of the Ukrainian

00:24:56

Constitution, we need to appeal to the

00:24:59

conformity of the constitutional borders of

00:25:01

Ukraine with international norms, we need to

00:25:03

appeal to the fact

00:25:05

that the vast majority of countries in the world

00:25:08

recognize Ukraine within specific borders,

00:25:11

the truth is that this is our real

00:25:15

evidence, evidence of our rightness. If

00:25:18

you want, but

00:25:23

there is no general international law because if a woman sits on the UN Security Council

00:25:27

who annexed the territory of

00:25:29

another country and she had nothing to do with it,

00:25:32

well, except for sanctions and conditionally.

00:25:34

Yes, she remains a member of the International

00:25:37

Community.

00:25:41

territories, you just need to

00:25:44

make peace,

00:25:47

the truth. Now I am not even talking about the

00:25:49

expediency or inappropriateness of the approach. I am

00:25:51

simply explaining to you that international law

00:25:53

has been destroyed by Russia in this way, but they

00:25:55

wanted it, they actually achieved it. And

00:25:58

now we need to make a new

00:26:00

international law that is

00:26:02

fair, where such countries as Russia

00:26:04

will receive according to their

00:26:07

real

00:26:08

actions I understand you and weather order I

00:26:12

speak President Biden Yes I just I

00:26:15

understand you I absolutely agree with you

00:26:17

I just as such you know as an

00:26:20

ordinary person always want to see

00:26:22

see hear options What what well well in

00:26:25

general for what we have influence, in fact,

00:26:29

we have influence when we defend our

00:26:31

position, our territorial integrity,

00:26:33

our borders, but we have to understand that we

00:26:35

are from the point of view of international

00:26:37

law and, in general, any law in the

00:26:38

hybrid world.

00:26:41

here you

00:26:43

cooperate with her here she votes in the

00:26:46

UN Security Council here she

00:26:51

kills someone with missile strikes here you invite the head of the

00:26:55

People's Republic of China to hold

00:26:57

talks with us here you call him a

00:26:59

dictator here a resolution is passed that

00:27:01

China violates human rights in

00:27:04

Xinjiang and all that happens at the same time and

00:27:07

this means that these are unpredictable rules

00:27:10

and the brain simply does not perceive these

00:27:13

unpredictable rules because it is not at all

00:27:15

what we are used to. And what are we used to

00:27:19

because since 1945 in

00:27:22

Europe we began to live in a world with established

00:27:25

norms of borders

00:27:28

and They somehow

00:27:29

agreed that even the division of states

00:27:32

could take place along the borders of the

00:27:34

former Soviet

00:27:37

Union republics of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. That's how there

00:27:39

are specific borders, they must be

00:27:43

respected. Well,

00:27:45

these norms, which, by the way, were

00:27:48

confirmed in Helsinki in 1975,

00:27:50

they were destroyed by the aggressor, aren't they? we destroyed them. I

00:27:54

apologize. They were destroyed. The Kremlin deliberately

00:27:57

destroyed them because it wants such a

00:28:00

hybrid

00:28:01

world, and we need to move from this hybrid

00:28:04

world to a world of rules. By

00:28:06

the way, this is what Sergey Lavrov says all the time.

00:28:08

They want us to live by

00:28:10

the rules. So we want and you don't live

00:28:13

wants but we want so

00:28:18

Yes I have one here I will definitely ask everything

00:28:22

because I have a choice I have a choice over topics

00:28:24

and they are all there from my point of view I have the

00:28:27

right to receive your comment but let's

00:28:30

let's Poland because it's more I don't know

00:28:33

Can you say that it is optimistic? But

00:28:35

the topic is more pleasant in this case,

00:28:37

because the new coalition is the new speaker. By

00:28:39

the way, from the journalists, do you happen to

00:28:40

know that we are at the main meeting there?

00:28:51

the speech is a beautiful

00:28:54

speech

00:28:55

and in itself this

00:28:59

situation, how do you assess it, I assess

00:29:02

this situation as the recovery of the Polish

00:29:04

state, but I wanted something about

00:29:06

the recovery, let it be at least about the

00:29:08

Polish state, because I really

00:29:10

hope that now we will see

00:29:14

recovery those institutions that Poland has

00:29:16

always been proud of: a free

00:29:19

judiciary, a free

00:29:22

media, an atmosphere of free public

00:29:26

broadcasting, the European role of Poland.

00:29:42

and I really hope that

00:29:45

this will also be taken into account in the future, and the

00:29:48

previous Government did everything to

00:29:50

spoil relations with us at least before

00:29:53

the war and with Berlin, and even I

00:29:56

think they still do not understand that

00:29:57

they basically destroyed the chances for

00:30:00

our European integration and for

00:30:02

their role as one of the leading states of

00:30:05

Central Europe, if not the leader of

00:30:07

Central Europe. I believe that Poland

00:30:09

should be the leader of Central Europe in

00:30:12

the conditions that have developed. I believe that this

00:30:14

leadership can be provided by a

00:30:17

strategic union of the interests of Poland,

00:30:20

Ukraine, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary,

00:30:24

of course, but I hope another Hungary

00:30:26

and not another Hungary what is your hope for here, what is

00:30:30

your hope for, that is, how is it, how can it be

00:30:31

done, I do not know from the point of view of the

00:30:34

political process, electoral

00:30:36

democracy sooner or later comes to

00:30:38

some other conclusions, you know that in

00:30:40

Hungary the opposition even won local elections

00:30:43

This is not the Russian Federation,

00:30:46

so there may be different options for the

00:30:47

development of Hungary. I am simply saying that in the

00:30:49

conditions in which we are, we need

00:30:51

the solidarity of the central European

00:30:53

states of Poland and Ukraine, first of all, we

00:30:56

also need it very much.

00:31:01

populism I would not like

00:31:04

our politics to become bogged down with

00:31:06

discussions about historical memory as the

00:31:08

main topic that should divide us

00:31:10

instead of uniting us, I would not

00:31:12

like us to not notice that we have

00:31:14

actually created Polish in these decades

00:31:16

- the Ukrainian world is one in which

00:31:18

millions of people travel back and forth, live in

00:31:21

two different countries, do business,

00:31:23

just now there is a war, maybe it is not so

00:31:24

visible in the Ukrainian example, but it is definitely

00:31:26

visible in Polish, and it was visible

00:31:28

in Ukrainian before, and this is our greatest

00:31:30

achievement in the goal-ization of Poland and Ukraine

00:31:32

over the last

00:31:34

century, how can you

00:31:37

ignore these things that you say,

00:31:39

in fact, this is reality, well, that is, if

00:31:41

you think about it, it is even everyday

00:31:42

reality. And what we can so everyday

00:31:45

reality that we can see. Yes,

00:31:47

but at the same time, politics remains.

00:31:53

people are

00:31:56

buying.

00:31:59

I was very surprised, let's say, when there was a

00:32:00

conflict over the

00:32:04

Polish attitude to Ukrainian

00:32:08

agricultural products, which a huge number of

00:32:10

our compatriots blamed for what

00:32:12

happened, the Ukrainian

00:32:14

leadership told that the president of

00:32:16

Ukraine is so inexperienced and does not understand

00:32:19

what he is doing and quarrels with allies, you

00:32:21

can't say that I the lobbyist of the

00:32:22

President of Ukraine is certainly guilty, but

00:32:26

the President of Ukraine behaved absolutely

00:32:28

competently and

00:32:30

adequately, because he should not have been a

00:32:34

boy in the election campaign of his

00:32:37

Polish colleagues, it is rude of

00:32:40

him, he has much more serious

00:32:41

problems than the election campaign of

00:32:44

Matiyush Marovetsky, in which he suddenly

00:32:46

decided to take Anzhedud's participation is not

00:32:50

wrong, it is politicking, it is not a

00:32:52

statesman's approach, and I will not

00:32:55

talk about what was the reaction of those

00:32:58

Poles who support the camp of the

00:33:00

Law and Justice party and other

00:33:01

right-wing populist forces, which in my opinion are

00:33:03

deeply unpromising from the point of view of the

00:33:05

future of Poland. I was surprised by the

00:33:07

reaction

00:33:08

Ukrainians who suddenly decided that it is not

00:33:10

possible to insult the Poles under any circumstances,

00:33:13

as before it was not possible to insult the Russians, and

00:33:15

again, as the Russians

00:33:17

always meant the conditional Putin, yes,

00:33:20

no, I don’t know there, Navalny or

00:33:23

Politkovska, but that’s who you couldn’t

00:33:27

respect. So here it turned out that by

00:33:28

Poland we mean exclusively the people who

00:33:31

are in the government offices today,

00:33:32

as if these people cannot lose the

00:33:34

elections and become in the opposition, we know that

00:33:37

not all Poles supported what was

00:33:38

happening around grain and around the

00:33:41

unfortunate statements of President Andrzej

00:33:43

Duda regarding As a

00:33:47

drowning man of Ukraine, it is also absolutely obvious to me.

00:33:49

Well, I hope that it is to some of

00:33:51

our compatriots. By the way, it is also

00:33:52

obvious now because we see a completely

00:33:54

different coalition, and we see

00:33:56

completely different decisions of the Poles themselves

00:33:58

inside the country. We

00:34:01

understand that this is completely different. the coalition will also

00:34:02

protect the national interests of Poland,

00:34:04

that's right. Well, that's right, and

00:34:06

this is how the government should behave differently. That's right, the

00:34:09

Polish government, not the Ukrainian one,

00:34:12

should protect its interests. Yes,

00:34:15

but you don't need to do it

00:34:17

hysterically, you don't need to quarrel with your

00:34:18

colleagues, you need to organize

00:34:20

consultations, negotiations, together, go

00:34:22

to a briefing, give joint statements, that's what

00:34:25

friends do, and we're friends, that's what partners do, and

00:34:29

we're partners, but if you want to show

00:34:32

how we whipped the Ukrainians to get them

00:34:35

to vote for us.

00:34:46

this week's statement that Russia

00:34:49

may start the next war there in the

00:34:52

Balkans. How do you feel about

00:34:54

this statement? I assume that a conflict will arise

00:34:57

in any problem region of Europe

00:34:59

and the world, as I said. We live in a world of

00:35:02

local conflicts of various kinds and the conflict

00:35:04

in the Balkans it can also happen

00:35:06

in the Balkans, maybe the president has

00:35:08

information, some information specifically about the

00:35:10

Balkans, yes, yes, maybe this

00:35:13

information is correctly or incorrectly

00:35:15

interpreted by the analytical services there,

00:35:17

I cannot be responsible for that, but the

00:35:19

president is right that Russia will

00:35:21

incite conflicts in different regions of the

00:35:24

world in order to divert attention from Ukraine

00:35:26

or it may intensify the conflict in

00:35:28

Ukraine in order to divert attention from some of

00:35:30

its other destabilizing actions because

00:35:33

Russia wants to be such a great

00:35:35

destabilizing force.

00:35:42

I don't know, it's moving away, you can

00:35:44

say Well, of course not, Russia will

00:35:46

try to do everything possible to

00:35:47

disrupt the peace between Armenia and

00:35:49

Azerbaijan, I assure you, no

00:35:51

one is moving anywhere.

00:35:54

Let's talk about Dubinsk. I know what, but we.

00:36:01

well, we

00:36:04

knew all this, we knew, not to mention the

00:36:07

law enforcement agencies, which probably saw it, I

00:36:10

cannot answer you, I am not responsible

00:36:12

for the logic and tempo of the activities of the

00:36:14

law enforcement agencies of

00:36:16

Ukraine, no, that is, do you have any

00:36:19

ideas about what could have happened, I have no ideas about

00:36:22

timing in addition, we have to

00:36:24

wait until this matter ends,

00:36:26

you understand, we live in a country of

00:36:29

suspicions of precautionary measures

00:36:33

and a country of suspicions of precautionary measures for

00:36:35

60 days, something

00:36:38

like that. So I am in no hurry to evaluate

00:36:40

this

00:36:42

situation, you just say on all topics

00:36:46

that it is too early to rejoice

00:36:48

Today I'm not happy at all for such

00:36:52

reasons, I'm used to reacting to the facts,

00:36:56

you understand. We have a fact that a person has

00:36:58

been charged with certain

00:37:00

charges. Let's wait for the

00:37:03

court process. If there is one, we'll

00:37:05

find out what the real case is, what are the

00:37:07

real charges. By the way, the charges are of

00:37:10

course And so we just say to you,

00:37:13

oh, this person we don't like

00:37:15

was sent to the detention center, this person

00:37:17

was sent to the detention center, well,

00:37:19

well, in this way, you and I admit

00:37:22

that we don't like someone, well, right away,

00:37:24

the question is not whether we like them or not,

00:37:25

right? Well, that's what I'm talking about, and

00:37:28

that's why I don't show any emotions. I

00:37:31

haven't had any contact with Mr. Dubinsky for a long, long time,

00:37:34

since the moment his

00:37:38

position

00:37:39

began. I'd say it's obvious.

00:37:42

He was once a famous economic

00:37:43

journalist, remember. Yes, of course. Well,

00:37:45

of course.

00:37:47

From that time I was well acquainted with him,

00:37:51

but at some point when he

00:37:52

stopped doing economics, in which he

00:37:55

was considered a specialist, he started

00:37:58

creating television shows.

00:38:09

how he was

00:38:10

regional and even in the

00:38:13

right. Let these people now define themselves with

00:38:16

their likes and dislikes. I'm here for

00:38:18

what it's been clear to me for a long time, as you

00:38:20

say actually. Well, you see, I wanted

00:38:23

a comment, and I got it. I

00:38:26

'll ask you the end of us here three more minutes,

00:38:28

probably four, until the end,

00:38:30

again, I understand that neither I nor you are

00:38:32

responsible for what

00:38:34

our colleagues in the authoritative world

00:38:36

media, from the New York Times to the Washington

00:38:38

Post, may write, but one way or another, and this week, the

00:38:41

frontline appeared again the article was

00:38:43

the Washington Post, and over the past

00:38:45

few months there have been quite a lot of

00:38:47

materials that use

00:38:49

the word negotiations about the fact that Ukraine

00:38:52

will have to sit down at the negotiating table or

00:38:54

face the negotiation table,

00:38:57

negotiate with the enemy, and so on and so

00:38:59

on. Well, I know your position it is

00:39:02

absolutely transparent, you have repeatedly

00:39:03

said that the negotiations are not

00:39:05

one-sided. If Putin does not want to, then

00:39:07

there are no negotiations, but the Western media

00:39:10

continue to write this.

00:39:22

these negotiations will go away, and they will

00:39:26

curse Putin as a person from another

00:39:28

political world, where it is not necessary

00:39:29

to negotiate, but to destroy the enemy and wait for

00:39:31

his weakness. Well, by the

00:39:34

way, the same mistake.

00:39:43

well, a good illustration of the fact that

00:39:45

they believed that Hamas was not interested in an

00:39:47

attack,

00:39:48

because the economy, because economic

00:39:51

preferences, because jobs

00:39:53

opened up, and so on, yes, yes, of course, yes,

00:39:55

and then it turned out that Hamas was

00:39:58

just waiting for a moment of weakness, yes, the

00:40:01

same with Putin. again, I can

00:40:04

confirm what I always say, the question is

00:40:06

not what the world media write,

00:40:08

if we knew that Putin really wants

00:40:10

real negotiations, not capitulation, but

00:40:12

negotiations. So we could

00:40:14

discuss the Ukrainian position with you.

00:40:19

after the

00:40:21

liberation of all territories, is it possible to have an

00:40:23

armistice, these would all be non-abstract

00:40:25

conversations. And now these are conversations, you know, with

00:40:27

yourself, then you can, you know,

00:40:30

talk. I can conduct

00:40:32

such a dialogue with myself, answer all the questions to myself. the

00:40:38

leading Western media want me to be considered a schizophrenic, although maybe

00:40:40

they are

00:40:42

right. I just know how to end on that note.

00:40:46

But I think it's

00:40:49

wonderful. Yesterday I watched your broadcast with

00:40:50

Yevgeny Kiselyov and I want to

00:40:52

thank you for starting this broadcast because

00:40:55

it was fantastically simple

00:40:59

I recommend the conversation, by the way, to all of our viewers, to all of

00:41:00

our female viewers, who hasn’t seen it, and by

00:41:03

the way, there was an open topic Yehen

00:41:06

Oleksiyovych is definitely a strong

00:41:07

professional who manages to ask even such

00:41:10

incredible questions from a

00:41:13

relaxed intelligentsia, this is 100%, and

00:41:16

there the topic of Ms. Farion and Mr. arrestovych is

00:41:18

simply was revealed I think it's

00:41:21

great thank you Tatiana Thank you Vitaliy

00:41:26

[applause]

00:41:31

foreign

Description:

Україна має знайти своє місце у світі суперництва демократій і диктатур = місце гравця, а не полігону. Розмова із Тетяною Трощинською. Стати спонсором каналу, і ви отримаєте доступ до ексклюзивних бонусів. Докладніше: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0ZrOPCKzqx36rRiPHkwFg/join Підтримати проект: MonoBank: 5358 3808 8880 6927 ПриватБанк: 4149 4993 7469 7348 https://www.patreon.com/portnikov?fan...%E2%80%8B Paypal: [email protected] Revolut: @vitali5iwb Buymeacoffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/portnikov Підписуйтесь на мої соціальні мережі: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTFygGgLg2OPIVsBZ7xeCjg https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser https://twitter.com/portnikov https://t.me/portnikov https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Криптогаманець: USDT(ERC - 20) - 0x3917a42D2b31E95B76455ad93e09E851DDBf50D4 BITCOIN - 3HLaKgWJKM6pMT3oUYHbssmWb2p95kSepX Ethereum (ERC-20) - 0x3917a42D2b31E95B76455ad93e09E851DDBf50D4 #Портников

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