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  • ruRussian
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00:00:02
Ukrainian
00:00:04
independent radio
00:00:07
Ukrainian independent radio I congratulate you and
00:00:10
now it is 8:3 in the morning in Chicago and in Kyiv
00:00:14
it is already afternoon at about 4:03 and I am
00:00:17
extremely pleased to welcome to
00:00:20
our broadcast our long-time acquaintance
00:00:23
Ukrainian journalist, TV presenter,
00:00:25
political analyst, publicist, laureate of the
00:00:28
Shevchenko Prize 2023 Vitalya
00:00:32
Portnikova, congratulations Vitalya, and we are extremely
00:00:35
grateful to you for finding time
00:00:36
for us today. Good morning Oksano Good
00:00:39
morning Roman Good morning Dear
00:00:41
listeners, I am
00:00:42
pleased to remember your visit to
00:00:45
Chicago and our broadcast later meeting with the
00:00:49
Ukrainian community at the Ukrainian
00:00:51
Institute of Modern Art I remember
00:00:53
which the hall was full and with what
00:00:55
interest they listened to you And actually we
00:00:58
learned a lot then and
00:01:00
today today is a completely different situation,
00:01:03
different conditions that have developed in Ukraine and
00:01:07
I would like to start our conversation with the
00:01:09
fact that recently the
00:01:11
President of Belarus Oleksandr Lukashenko in his
00:01:12
message to the country's parliament in fact,
00:01:15
officially supported the placement of
00:01:18
Russian tactical nuclear weapons in the country, before
00:01:21
that the President of Russia himself eventually
00:01:23
announced this, Putin justified this decision by justifying this decision as a
00:01:26
request from Belarus itself, they say, for
00:01:29
help.
00:01:39
protests against
00:01:42
this And such a truce is impossible, it
00:01:45
is necessary to withdraw all Russian troops
00:01:47
from the territory of Ukraine
00:01:49
Ukraine's own side in Italy declares this
00:02:02
this does not mean that today
00:02:04
even those countries that have given up
00:02:07
nuclear weapons will change their
00:02:11
opinion to the opposite, and to what
00:02:13
level of tension can everything lead to in
00:02:15
your opinion,
00:02:17
you know, I think when I
00:02:19
analyze this decision to deploy a
00:02:22
tactical nuclear weapons on the territory of the
00:02:23
Republic of Belarus. By the way, it is
00:02:25
not there yet. Let's see when it
00:02:28
will actually be brought there. We live with you in
00:02:32
such a
00:02:33
time machine. I said that my neighbors are a
00:02:36
time machine called the Russian
00:02:37
Federation for Vladimir Putin and
00:02:40
his entourage and for Alexander Lukashenko.
00:02:43
By the way, their main goal is to return to the
00:02:46
Soviet Union, that is, to the state in
00:02:49
which the Soviet Union was before its collapse,
00:02:52
of course, they do not have many opportunities to
00:02:55
do this from the point of view, I would say
00:02:57
geopolitically, but where they can
00:03:00
do it, they do it in such a way. would
00:03:03
say to a reduced caricature,
00:03:04
let's say that the Soviet Union had
00:03:07
satellite countries in which it tried to
00:03:09
place nuclear weapons and missiles, while at the same time it
00:03:12
itself financed the so-called Peace Movement in the
00:03:17
West, and you remember what
00:03:18
demonstrations there would be in West Germany then
00:03:20
against the American Pershings and in In the
00:03:23
United States itself, people went out to
00:03:25
demonstrations and said that there is no need to
00:03:27
place nuclear weapons in Europe. But in the
00:03:30
German Democratic Republic, where
00:03:32
Russian Soviet missiles were placed,
00:03:34
there were no demonstrations, no one
00:03:36
protested, Putin has such a small one.
00:03:40
I would say the German Democratic
00:03:42
Republic from the
00:03:44
Republic Belarus creates this one
00:03:46
moment another moment this is such a signal that
00:03:49
if you behave well in relation
00:03:51
to Russia If you understand that you should
00:03:54
be a satellite in Russia If you do not want to
00:03:56
go your own way then you get a
00:03:59
reward oil and gas at the internal
00:04:02
prices of the eternal dictator
00:04:05
not Russia will attack you, even
00:04:08
deploy nuclear weapons on your territory.
00:04:10
And if you behave like
00:04:13
Ukraine, then Russia will not give a damn about the Budapest
00:04:15
Memorandum, will buy part of your
00:04:17
territory, will destroy your
00:04:19
infrastructure, and in the end will fight
00:04:21
for the destruction of your state, such as for your
00:04:24
expulsion from your native land. Choose either
00:04:27
you live peacefully with Russia and
00:04:29
even have nuclear weapons that guarantee
00:04:31
that no one can attack you, or you are
00:04:33
against Russia and disappear from the face of the
00:04:35
world. This is just Putin's tactic.
00:04:40
sense
00:04:43
because in principle it does not
00:04:45
matter from which territory we say
00:04:46
to launch a nuclear attack on the territory of
00:04:48
Ukraine or on the territory of Poland, if we
00:04:51
even imagine in our wildest fantasies
00:04:53
that Russia is ready for a nuclear conflict, you
00:04:55
can know from the territory of Belarus, you can
00:04:58
from the Kaliningrad region of the Russian
00:05:00
Federation, there is already nuclear missiles are possible
00:05:02
from the Bryansk or Kursk region, the strike
00:05:05
will still be of exactly this force and exactly this
00:05:07
level, there is no practical sense to
00:05:10
strike exactly from the territory of Belarus.
00:05:20
these countries that do not have nuclear
00:05:22
weapons today, they understand that their security
00:05:24
depends on these weapons, what kind of
00:05:26
Russia is that, well, let's assume
00:05:29
Russia can attack them if they
00:05:31
absolutely do not have these weapons, which
00:05:33
Ukraine gave up at one time, and for them
00:05:34
it is a vivid example of the fact that let
00:05:36
's build up armaments Let's
00:05:38
keep nuclear weapons on our territories
00:05:40
Well before that What can this
00:05:42
lead to Our planet Yes, I think that this is
00:05:45
not related to the placement of nuclear
00:05:47
weapons in Belarus, so everyone will still not
00:05:50
have any the right
00:05:51
to use this nuclear weapon, this
00:05:54
suitcase with codes that will allow a
00:05:57
nuclear attack, it will not be in the
00:05:59
hands of Alexander Lukashenko, it will be
00:06:00
in the hands of Vladimir Putin, and
00:06:03
by the way, I think that if Ukraine really
00:06:04
kept nuclear weapons, the suitcase
00:06:07
was in the hands of the President
00:06:09
of Russia Federation or
00:06:10
the Commander-in-Chief of the United Armed
00:06:12
Forces of the Sandei country, which is located in
00:06:14
Moscow. I want to remind you that there was no suitcase
00:06:17
with nuclear codes
00:06:18
even before we returned the
00:06:21
nuclear weapons, either in the hands of the
00:06:23
President of Ukraine, or in the hands of the
00:06:25
President of Belarus, or in the hands of the
00:06:26
President of Kazakhstan, these are the republics that
00:06:29
had nuclear weapons, in any case, the
00:06:31
launch of nuclear missiles even from the territory of
00:06:34
Ukraine could be regulated only by one
00:06:36
person, the
00:06:37
president of the Russian Federation, true.
00:06:40
Then, with the agreement of the commander-in-chief
00:06:42
or the combined armed forces of the CIS,
00:06:43
Marshal Yevgeny the caps, we forgot about it,
00:06:46
but simply This was such a
00:06:47
reality We we are trying to pretend
00:06:50
that we really had control over nuclear
00:06:53
weapons, we had nuclear weapons on our
00:06:55
territory, but they did not belong to us and
00:06:57
were not launched by us, that is another matter, of
00:07:00
course, if the situation were to change,
00:07:02
maybe in some time we could have
00:07:04
nuclear weapons that would not be aimed at
00:07:07
Let's say America And to the East, and the keys to these
00:07:12
nuclear weapons would ultimately be
00:07:15
in the hands of the President of Ukraine as the Supreme
00:07:18
Blockade or the armed forces, so
00:07:19
for this we needed our own
00:07:21
nuclear program, huge investments,
00:07:24
money, the approval of the International
00:07:26
Community is something else entirely. I
00:07:28
agree with in your opinion that if,
00:07:32
say, a nuclear strike is carried out on the territory of Ukraine
00:07:37
and after that the aggressor state will remain
00:07:40
unpunished because the other state will not
00:07:43
want an open armed conflict with
00:07:45
such a state, this will open a new nuclear
00:07:47
era. This is true, it may be so because
00:07:49
then any - what country will think And what
00:07:53
protects us from any nuclear state,
00:07:55
what if tomorrow in any nuclear
00:07:58
defense state the mood changes And it's
00:08:01
not only the United States of the Russian
00:08:02
Federation, China, Great Britain or
00:08:04
France, it's also India, it's also Pakistan,
00:08:09
it's also North Korea and Iran can be added to this,
00:08:15
in this situation, of course,
00:08:19
the idea may arise that only the possession of our own nuclear
00:08:22
weapons can protect us from a
00:08:24
serious attack.
00:08:33
armed with nuclear weapons, if Russia,
00:08:36
Ukraine would have armed with nuclear weapons,
00:08:39
I don't care that it could stop the
00:08:42
Russian attack, we would just now
00:08:45
be in the last war, during which
00:08:47
we would know for sure that a
00:08:49
nuclear weapon cannot be used on the territory of Ukraine,
00:08:52
because Ukraine can to respond to a nuclear attack
00:08:54
and This is the only thing we knew, but everything
00:08:57
else happened according to the same scenario as
00:09:00
it is happening today,
00:09:02
Ukraine would have had its hands free from the point
00:09:04
of view of launching missile strikes on the territory of the
00:09:06
Russian Federation from the point
00:09:08
of view of the entry of our troops into the territory of the
00:09:10
Russian Federation Federation it is true we
00:09:12
would have more options if we
00:09:13
had nuclear weapons but again so far
00:09:16
our troops have not come even
00:09:17
close to our state borders
00:09:19
where they are occupied by Russia without any
00:09:21
use or acquisition of nuclear weapons
00:09:24
by us so far we do not have enough
00:09:28
the amount of long-range equipment that
00:09:30
could hit the territory of the Russian
00:09:32
Federation, and by the way, when we have this equipment
00:09:34
in service, such as
00:09:36
drones, we attack objects on the
00:09:38
territory of the Russian Federation, let's say
00:09:39
the same airfield in Hungary. So I
00:09:42
think that this story is not exactly about nuclear
00:09:44
weapons, it is the story is more about
00:09:46
responsibility, if we see that the
00:09:48
Russian political leadership is really
00:09:49
ready to use nuclear weapons to
00:09:52
attack a non-nuclear state, it will
00:09:55
undoubtedly change the whole world and change the very
00:09:57
nature of this war and may lead to a
00:09:59
force clash of a larger scale
00:10:01
and then to the third world war and
00:10:03
slowly the emergence of civilization on the
00:10:05
vast expanses of Europe and North
00:10:07
America is, in principle, an absolutely real
00:10:09
development of events that we are observing
00:10:11
because it very often happens that a war, as the
00:10:13
world perceives it, locally turns
00:10:15
into a global conflict that leads
00:10:17
to the death of millions of people, and in a situation of a
00:10:19
nuclear conflict, it will be dozens
00:10:21
millions of people and hundreds of millions of people
00:10:23
who will live with the consequences of radiation
00:10:24
sickness for many generations to come, it is possible, it is
00:10:27
possible that on February 24, 2022, there was an
00:10:30
exceptional challenge of such a sharp start
00:10:33
gun that will allow democracies and
00:10:35
dictatorships to meet in a war for the very
00:10:38
destruction of each other and in the near
00:10:40
future, but we we have to do something to
00:10:42
get ahead of it. We can't just
00:10:44
state it because what I'm
00:10:46
telling you is not a utopian novel.
00:10:48
You understand, it's not Thomas More or an eagle or a
00:10:51
woodpecker, it's a salamander - it's something that can
00:10:54
happen in our lives with you and
00:10:56
make millions of people who live next
00:10:59
to us and we ourselves are the victims of this third
00:11:01
world war, soon we
00:11:03
have to think about how to prevent this from
00:11:06
happening and not just tell it
00:11:08
as a literary story. And I thought about it
00:11:11
because I am not a writer, but a
00:11:13
writer's political analyst - This is a
00:11:15
beautiful fascinating plot and for a
00:11:18
political analyst - This is just a series of
00:11:19
obituaries, then in your opinion, what is the
00:11:23
percentage of the probability of use, just
00:11:25
me. What do you think,
00:11:28
at the moment, I do not see this as a
00:11:31
practical necessity for Russia,
00:11:33
because if Russia were ready to
00:11:37
use nuclear weapons on at the beginning of
00:11:39
this conflict, it could paralyze both
00:11:41
Ukraine and the world, now after all these
00:11:45
beasts, Kyiv is becoming, took place on the territory of
00:11:48
Ukraine, the question arises what will change if
00:11:51
tactical nuclear weapons were deployed on Ukrainian
00:11:54
territory, well, it will simply increase
00:11:56
the number of victims
00:11:58
will show the level of Russian adequacy and
00:12:00
possibly force the West to react by
00:12:02
force how the process was signaled by the
00:12:05
leading politicians of Western countries is
00:12:08
another matter. Here, in any case, I
00:12:11
think that it is necessary to think about what to do in order not to
00:12:14
turn the war of Russia against Ukraine into a
00:12:17
long-term exhausting conflict,
00:12:20
because, first of all, I believe that such a
00:12:21
long-term exhausting conflict, in
00:12:23
principle, does not bring in itself the prospects for the
00:12:25
rapid reconstruction of Ukraine and makes this
00:12:28
reconstruction a matter of a distant
00:12:30
perspective. Thus, in the center of
00:12:32
Europe, there will always be a
00:12:34
territory of death,
00:12:37
secondly, because any long
00:12:40
conflict is
00:12:41
pregnant with the possibility of sudden escalation and
00:12:44
the use of nuclear weapons, even in
00:12:46
situations when this is not a plan in Moscow,
00:12:50
therefore, I believe that all the current conversations about the
00:12:53
need to end the war first
00:12:55
and then think about Ukraine's admission to
00:12:58
NATO and security guarantees after the war
00:13:00
make Russia's war against Ukraine
00:13:02
virtually endless, so that there is no
00:13:04
time point for its end, and in
00:13:08
principle, we in this case, we can't wait for
00:13:10
this war in our lifetime.
00:13:12
I believe that Ukraine should receive
00:13:14
security guarantees already today. I
00:13:18
told her that she should have received these
00:13:19
security guarantees already yesterday. I believe that the
00:13:22
North Atlantic Union should show
00:13:24
political will.
00:13:30
the use of this political will panics about
00:13:32
itself, the Atlantic Union is doomed
00:13:35
to give Ukrainians tens of
00:13:37
millions of dollars for years, I think that the war in
00:13:40
Ukraine will be joined by wars in other
00:13:42
former Soviet republics, which
00:13:44
will be new millions of refugees, new
00:13:45
billions of dollars, new difficulties, new
00:13:48
problems, I think that this is all necessary to stop
00:13:51
already now as security guarantees to this
00:13:54
territory which is under the control of the
00:13:57
legitimate Ukrainian government and, in
00:13:58
principle, is now not heated by the Russian
00:14:01
aggressor
00:14:03
and the search for ways to liberate the territory
00:14:06
that is currently occupied by Russia by military
00:14:08
means even after the liberation of these territories by
00:14:11
military means, they also received these
00:14:13
security guarantees However, not I am sure that
00:14:15
these two processes should be separated,
00:14:17
because when they are combined,
00:14:22
we will actually get such a long-term war,
00:14:24
which
00:14:25
becomes a war of attrition for the
00:14:28
Ukrainian people. I absolutely do not
00:14:30
think that this is appropriate, therefore I constantly
00:14:32
call on Western politicians and
00:14:34
observers to change
00:14:38
optics and, as they say, put the horses first,
00:14:44
safety first, then everything else. I'm not saying
00:14:48
that Ukraine should become a member of NATO
00:14:50
today, let's say how Finland became. I'm
00:14:53
saying that Ukraine's application to NATO
00:14:55
should be accepted and for the time being, while it
00:14:57
is being considered, Ukraine should receive a
00:14:59
guarantee of security, again for this
00:15:01
territory where military operations are not taking place,
00:15:02
I am not in favor of the fact that the United States
00:15:05
provided Ukraine with security guarantees in
00:15:07
view of that territory, say in
00:15:09
Donbas or in the south of Ukraine, where the
00:15:11
contact line gives military operations. No,
00:15:12
I am not crazy, I understand that the United States
00:15:14
The states will never open
00:15:16
a conflict with the Russian Federation,
00:15:17
realizing all the dangers of a nuclear
00:15:19
conflict. But the territory where there are
00:15:21
no military actions.
00:15:23
It can be under a security guarantee, we will
00:15:25
at least remove most of our
00:15:27
land from the perspective of a military conflict.
00:15:29
Russia will know exactly where
00:15:31
its military capabilities end. by the way, it is possible to
00:15:33
stop missile attacks and
00:15:36
drone raids, even if it doesn't stop,
00:15:38
in any case, we will know for sure
00:15:40
that no Russian soldier will be able to
00:15:42
set foot on this territory,
00:15:44
this way, I think it is necessary to advance
00:15:47
because all the other alternatives do
00:15:49
not look safe at all, you understand
00:15:51
how many times can we
00:15:53
talk about how many things we will do after
00:15:55
the victory and the end of the war, but if there is no
00:15:57
political solution to the end of the war,
00:16:00
then there is no Victory itself,
00:16:04
this seems to me to be such a difficult question,
00:16:06
and I wanted to talk to you about NATO
00:16:08
in the future, but
00:16:11
now I want to give a word to the novel to the
00:16:13
member of the law of the UCC from Yatsk and the member of the
00:16:15
board of directors of the financial institution who are with us
00:16:18
on the air today, please.
00:16:39
That is, this is an example of what a
00:16:42
journalist should be like, how he should prepare
00:16:45
for programs, how he should
00:16:47
study the whole component of his
00:16:52
journalistic activity, this is an example of
00:16:56
great professionalism. So I
00:16:59
thank you that we have such journalists in Ukraine,
00:17:03
I have to say that it is not difficult to be a
00:17:05
political analyst somewhere in Ukraine or
00:17:07
in Israel,
00:17:08
or somewhere else in such a hot spot. That is, you have
00:17:11
been living
00:17:13
in a state of constant brain training for a long time. You should
00:17:15
try to become a political analyst in
00:17:17
Denmark or Sweden or in California.
00:17:20
It is not difficult there in Ukraine. Unfortunately, I have a
00:17:23
question so that to continue in
00:17:26
that perspective of
00:17:29
our interview, how do you feel about or
00:17:34
what do you think China's policy is, what is it,
00:17:38
we know the visit of their leader to Moscow,
00:17:42
we know the statement now by my Minister of
00:17:45
Foreign Affairs from
00:17:48
China, what is it, what is
00:17:53
China's policy, and
00:17:55
how is it connected with Ukraine and with Russia,
00:18:00
what is the ultimate goal of
00:18:04
Taiwan, will he meet with the
00:18:08
speaker of the House of Representatives of the
00:18:10
American Congress, Mr. McCartney, in
00:18:13
California, in Los Angeles, when it
00:18:17
was also not long ago, literally now, President
00:18:19
Macron and the head of the European Commission, Mr.
00:18:22
Ursula Fondan, will meet with the
00:18:24
head of the Chinese of the People's Republic of
00:18:26
China, so China is in the center of
00:18:29
attention. I would say politically, and we are now
00:18:31
waiting to see what China's reaction will be to this
00:18:33
meeting between the president of Taiwan and the speaker of the
00:18:36
House of Representatives of the American
00:18:38
Congress, and there may also be
00:18:40
problems there, you understand. I believe that China
00:18:44
is interested in two things at the same time, China
00:18:48
is interested in developing its
00:18:50
economy, and it cannot do this without
00:18:53
using the market of the
00:18:55
United States and the European Union in them,
00:18:58
but China, along with this, is interested in the fact that the
00:19:02
countries of the European
00:19:03
Union no longer interfere in the
00:19:06
internal affairs of China. I mean
00:19:09
democracy in China, I mean a
00:19:11
claim to Taiwan and a
00:19:15
possible military solution to this issue, I
00:19:17
mean China's claims to hegemony
00:19:19
in the
00:19:20
Pacific basin, so that these
00:19:24
two
00:19:25
goals are achieved by China. It is important that the
00:19:29
west remains economically capable and
00:19:32
politically weakened and that is why the leadership of the
00:19:36
People's Republic of China
00:19:37
uses the Russian Federation from the point of
00:19:40
view of Beijing as an effective
00:19:43
tool to weaken the humiliation of the
00:19:44
West.
00:19:57
support for Ukraine, if Ukraine becomes a
00:20:00
basin state for the Russian
00:20:02
Federation such as Belarus, and China
00:20:04
will certainly support the
00:20:05
territorial integrity of such a vassal,
00:20:08
humiliated, capitulating Ukrainian
00:20:10
state, this will be a clear lesson for the West that
00:20:13
it should not interfere in the affairs of the dictates, and
00:20:16
therefore for the People's Republic of China,
00:20:19
it is important that Russia wins and
00:20:21
won quickly because the continuation of
00:20:24
the war means the economic weakening of both
00:20:26
Russia and the West, and thus
00:20:28
economic problems for China
00:20:31
But at the same time, this victory for Russia must
00:20:33
of course take place so that
00:20:36
China itself does not fall under sanctions under an
00:20:38
economic blow that helps Russia in its
00:20:41
struggle with the enemy, and this is
00:20:44
the policy that China is trying to follow,
00:20:45
on the one hand, statements about respect for the
00:20:48
territorial integrity of Ukraine and
00:20:50
non-supply of weapons to Russia, on the other hand,
00:20:52
financial support for Russia, China is now
00:20:55
actually competing with India for Russian
00:20:58
oil so that Russia can get as
00:21:01
much money as possible to arm its army,
00:21:03
it could mobilize How
00:21:05
could more people pay salaries to its
00:21:07
public servants and judges on the one hand,
00:21:09
China says that it is ready to
00:21:11
mediate in the Peace Process, and on the
00:21:13
other hand, it uses its I would
00:21:15
say proxy states that are related to
00:21:18
it both economically and political
00:21:19
interests, as well as the wounds of North Korea
00:21:22
for the supply of weapons to Russia, which should
00:21:24
ultimately help to put an end
00:21:26
to the existence of the Ukrainian state as the
00:21:28
Independence of sovereign Ukraine, which wants to
00:21:30
go its own way, that is the
00:21:32
whole policy of China. China is the center
00:21:36
that is trying to create an informal
00:21:40
coalition of dictatorships in opposition to
00:21:42
democracies and we already see these countries
00:21:44
that are in this coalition, this is the
00:21:46
People's Republic of China itself, this is the
00:21:48
Russian Federation, this is Iran, this is North
00:21:51
Korea, this is the Republic of Belarus, there are countries
00:21:53
that are in the gray zone, but they are also
00:21:55
ready to do everything so that these countries
00:21:57
have economic capabilities, this is India, this is
00:22:01
definitely Modern South Africa
00:22:04
is a
00:22:06
Latin American country, one way or another they
00:22:09
can make political statements
00:22:11
in our favor and economically. They
00:22:13
are seriously dependent
00:22:15
on China.
00:22:25
side because he works so subtly. He
00:22:27
works so diplomatically there, you know.
00:22:30
Well, to be honest, such are used. To be honest, there are
00:22:33
no big subtleties, no
00:22:35
important big subtleties in Chinese
00:22:37
politics.
00:22:38
I also think that we are exaggerating because
00:22:41
when we look at China, it appears before
00:22:44
our eyes for reasons I do not understand.
00:22:47
some image of the mysterious
00:22:50
Chinese empire of the 19th century and this
00:22:53
entire Chinese culture is mysterious, this is about the
00:22:56
same mistake that
00:22:59
people in the West make who look at
00:23:01
modern Russia and see the Russia of a fat
00:23:04
Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Tchaikovsky,
00:23:06
Rachmaninov, and you and I, as people who lived,
00:23:10
witnessed the existence of the Soviet Union did
00:23:12
we live in the Soviet Union, we know for sure that the
00:23:14
Soviet Union was not a country after 1917,
00:23:17
then 100 Dostoevsky's
00:23:19
Chekhov's Rachmaninoff that those who read
00:23:22
Tolstoy Dostoevsky's Chekhov and listened to
00:23:24
Tchaikovsky's Rachmaninoff were simply
00:23:26
shot to death by the Bolsheviks and the
00:23:29
military were not Decembrists,
00:23:30
do you remember
00:23:32
Is this a country of winners in
00:23:36
civil war that destroyed manors,
00:23:39
burned down museums, destroyed churches and this
00:23:43
population is mostly the majority and
00:23:47
descendants of these people of the population of the
00:23:49
modern Russian Federation
00:23:50
90% Believe me the same thing The
00:23:54
People's Republic of China is the country of the winners
00:23:56
in the civil war The
00:23:58
Chinese Communist Party with the help of the Chinese
00:24:00
Soviet Union which Until things, installed
00:24:04
all air defense systems in the
00:24:06
People's Republic of China, etc.,
00:24:07
defeated those who wanted to see China
00:24:10
at least as a country of private property,
00:24:12
at least as a country in terms of democracy,
00:24:14
Generalis Mosichenko's army flowed to
00:24:18
Taiwan, and people who wanted to live in a
00:24:21
more or less normal, decent life
00:24:22
were simply destroyed, intimidated, killed
00:24:26
the head of the People's Republic of China,
00:24:28
Comrade Dengping, the former Hongweibin,
00:24:31
he was one of the squads of youths who destroyed
00:24:35
old monuments, who burned books, who
00:24:38
beat old people, even party
00:24:40
workers, at the behest of outsiders and
00:24:42
other radicals, the Communist
00:24:45
leadership, and these people make up 90% of the
00:24:49
population of modern China, there are no others these are the
00:24:51
descendants of this population of the victors of the
00:24:53
civil war, so when we think
00:24:56
that all the DPR chooses the economy between the fight against democracy and the
00:25:00
economy, we
00:25:01
are wrong, these days are basically
00:25:04
Chinese Putin, both leaders came to
00:25:07
power in countries that tried to find a
00:25:09
way to the civilized world and both leaders
00:25:11
collapsed all the reforms that promised success are
00:25:14
also on the way,
00:25:16
and in this regard, China and Russia are developing
00:25:18
synchronously in this regard. China, in terms of
00:25:20
China, Russia are natural allies, and in this
00:25:23
regard we have no leverage,
00:25:26
as we never had any
00:25:28
leverage over Putin, remember the president
00:25:30
Biden tried to negotiate with
00:25:32
President Putin and explain to him that
00:25:35
China threatens the national interests of
00:25:37
Russia, or does China threaten the national
00:25:40
interests of Russia as a European state,
00:25:42
a fact, but as an Asian state.
00:25:54
would like to develop as a
00:25:56
civilized democratic state in
00:25:58
the future. Yes, as a dictatorial state,
00:26:01
Russia does not threaten the interests of China, it is a
00:26:02
natural ally. China is much more
00:26:04
than a native of the Union than the United States. No. Is the
00:26:06
European Union impossible to convince
00:26:08
people that white is black, black is
00:26:12
white, I am all the time when it comes to
00:26:13
negotiations with Sydzelpin and when our
00:26:16
president says that he would like to talk to him
00:26:17
and when the West says that it
00:26:19
is difficult It is important that everyone Dvinkin talks
00:26:21
to Zelensky, by the way, today the ambassador of the
00:26:23
People's Republic of China to the
00:26:25
European Union said that this conversation is not
00:26:26
happening
00:26:27
zenpinbusy busy very busy
00:26:29
I keep saying you don't need to look for a black
00:26:33
room a black cat in a room when it's
00:26:37
not there
00:26:40
And actually you already touched on the issue of NATO
00:26:44
and now I know that Vilnius is taking place here
00:26:46
this meeting is going our well the Minister of
00:26:49
Foreign Affairs of Ukraine a colleague also
00:26:51
spoke today with some
00:26:54
comments, and we know that yesterday Finland
00:26:57
became a full member of NATO, then
00:26:59
obviously Sweden will be next and what
00:27:02
this actually achieved, Russia
00:27:05
got a huge NATO border,
00:27:07
but what to expect, you told Ukraine
00:27:10
about what is possible, about the possibility of such a
00:27:12
compromise, the so-called special
00:27:14
intermediate status during the war, Ukraine joined
00:27:16
NATO. Because I understand that
00:27:18
Donato's Ukraine is not yet ready, although our military,
00:27:21
if we take the military themselves, so to speak,
00:27:23
they almost meet
00:27:25
NATO standards in terms of training
00:27:27
and so on, but I understand that there are
00:27:29
a lot of criteria that we became members What does NATO
00:27:31
need, what criteria should we first of all
00:27:33
meet, and is this
00:27:36
interim special status of Ukraine in
00:27:37
NATO possible during the war?
00:27:39
Oksana, I always said that the criteria are a
00:27:42
decisive thing, and even when Ukraine
00:27:44
signed the association agreement with the
00:27:46
European Union during Yanukovych's time, I
00:27:48
was one of those of the few people who
00:27:50
opposed the European Union
00:27:52
signing an agreement with Yanukovych because I
00:27:54
said that signing an association agreement with a
00:27:57
country of selective justice is a crime
00:28:00
against European principles
00:28:02
or we are getting closer to Europe and then at least
00:28:05
stop the repression against
00:28:07
opposition politicians let Yulia
00:28:09
Tymoshenko in or no one should not sign
00:28:11
any agreement with Ukraine because it is an illusion
00:28:13
that it will leave the Russian sphere of influence
00:28:15
if there is selective justice in it and I,
00:28:18
as you can see, turned out to be right because I
00:28:20
want to sign one of these agreements But
00:28:22
now I will tell you a simple thing
00:28:24
NATO criteria are primarily a criterion of
00:28:27
political will, this is not the European Union,
00:28:29
joining NATO is primarily a question of the extent
00:28:32
to which
00:28:33
NATO member states are ready to ensure
00:28:36
our own security. I do not think that
00:28:39
Ukraine is not ready to join NATO, the
00:28:41
European Union is not ready, that's true, and we
00:28:43
will prepare, we will hold
00:28:44
negotiations. I hope that success awaits us on this
00:28:46
path in some perspective,
00:28:49
and Donato, we are really ready
00:28:52
when I agree that this cannot happen during a war. That is why I
00:28:54
say that there may
00:28:56
be an intermediate option. Sweden
00:28:58
is currently in such an intermediate option,
00:29:00
I do not think that Russia will suffer greatly from
00:29:03
joining to Finland Sweden Why
00:29:06
Because Russia absolutely everything is the same, what
00:29:08
countries will we have Russia knows for sure that
00:29:11
NATO is a defense alliance that does not threaten
00:29:13
Russia had no problems with
00:29:16
Finland Sweden How about Poland
00:29:18
or Hungary Russia has problems with
00:29:21
joining NATO Ukraine Georgia and other
00:29:23
former republics And why, because from the
00:29:26
point of view of Russia, Finland can exist
00:29:29
on the political map of the world, but Ukraine cannot.
00:29:32
And that is why the Russians, when they demanded that
00:29:35
NATO give them guarantees that we cannot
00:29:37
be members of NATO, had only
00:29:40
one thing in mind, that the countries- NATO members did not
00:29:43
undertake to protect us at the
00:29:46
moment when Moscow decides to
00:29:48
include the territory of
00:29:50
Ukraine in the Russian Federation.
00:29:52
This is not a story about NATO. This story is about what
00:29:55
Russia wants, it is their strategic
00:29:58
goal to reach the borders of the Soviet Union In
00:30:02
1991, with the exception of Latvia, Lithuania and
00:30:05
Estonia, the independence of which was recognized by the
00:30:07
USSR even before the collapse of the Soviet
00:30:09
Union, and by the way, we now know from the documents
00:30:12
published by my Western
00:30:14
colleagues when, in principle,
00:30:16
this exit at the border in 1991 is
00:30:18
planned for 2030, this is the year of the final the
00:30:22
integration of these territories, when they are all
00:30:24
completely under the influence of the Russian
00:30:27
Federation, all their institutions
00:30:28
obey Moscow, and it
00:30:30
remains there for 5-6 years,
00:30:33
by the way, this is the end of
00:30:35
Putin's presidential mandate according to the current
00:30:37
constitution, when all these countries
00:30:40
turn into an attack on the united,
00:30:42
restored Russian state and In
00:30:45
2036, Vladimir Putin will no longer become the president of the
00:30:48
Russian Federation, but the president of the entire
00:30:51
great historical Russia, that is, he will start
00:30:55
his presidential term from the first day
00:30:56
with 1 blank sheet of paper. Here, the whole
00:30:59
idea is absolutely obvious to me,
00:31:01
so
00:31:02
now I am really sure. I want
00:31:06
my American viewers and listeners
00:31:09
reported this to their congressmen and
00:31:11
senators and
00:31:14
members of the House of Representatives that guarantees of
00:31:17
Ukraine's security in one form or another
00:31:20
until the end of hostilities are guarantees
00:31:24
that we will be in this part of Europe and
00:31:27
that we will not have to spend billions of
00:31:29
dollars to support Ukraine
00:31:31
forever. Thank you Vitaliy, for yours, for your signal,
00:31:35
we will convey all this and we hope that our
00:31:37
listeners will listen carefully to you today.
00:31:40
Vitaliy cannot be asked. The
00:31:42
eviction of the clergy of the
00:31:44
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the
00:31:46
Moscow Patriarchate from the
00:31:47
Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra continues for the second week.
00:31:54
Swan in Khmelnytskyi, the
00:31:56
church community has already come to the defense of the
00:31:59
military serviceman, you know, because the
00:32:00
community has already joined the Orthodox
00:32:02
Church of Ukraine, by the way, today in Lviv
00:32:04
I read that on St. George's Church,
00:32:08
too, it officially joined the Orthodox
00:32:11
Church of Ukraine, so
00:32:15
yes, Vitaly, according to your predictions, how
00:32:17
will things unfold further events because Well, here are
00:32:20
these so-called clerics, and these are
00:32:23
agents of the Kremlin. In robes, we all know that
00:32:25
we will not give up in detail now. They will
00:32:28
not give up so easily, but how do we get out
00:32:32
of this situation?
00:32:37
since this religious
00:32:40
issue is a very painful issue, especially for the
00:32:42
civilized world, and they are very
00:32:44
democratically minded and probably do not
00:32:46
want to delve into these nuances. The Moscow
00:32:49
Patriarchate, where is the Ukrainian Orthodox
00:32:51
Church?
00:32:57
so that we can still
00:32:58
overcome this internal enemy, an
00:33:00
extremely strong and powerful enemy
00:33:03
that exists inside Ukraine today, the
00:33:14
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, you know. A few days ago, I was also thinking about what would happen in the event that this kind of confrontation would begin from the Ukrainian
00:33:16
Orthodox Church of the Moscow
00:33:18
Patriarchate from the Ukrainian state we
00:33:21
can suddenly see that there is a
00:33:22
parallel center of power in the country, that there is a center of power
00:33:25
headed by the president and there is a center of power
00:33:27
headed by Metropolitan Onufriy, but
00:33:30
now we have the impression that I am going through
00:33:31
the 90s, when we could
00:33:34
think exactly the same way in
00:33:36
19889 about the communist party
00:33:39
of the Soviet Union,
00:33:41
what will happen if you ban the Communist
00:33:43
Party of the Soviet Union, there are already
00:33:45
tens of millions of communists, 10 million, it
00:33:48
seems, and maybe 4 I don't
00:33:51
remember now, but the members of their families, if they
00:33:54
start to defend their party, and then
00:33:56
you remember August 20, 4th, 1991 In 2008, the
00:34:00
then President of Russia, Boris
00:34:03
Yeltsin, issued a decree banning the
00:34:05
Communist Party of the Soviet Union
00:34:07
on the territory of the Russian Federation, and on
00:34:09
August 25, it was already banned on the
00:34:12
territory of Ukraine, and that at least one communist
00:34:14
came under the Central Committee of the party or
00:34:17
under at least one city district committee. Well, at least
00:34:20
one communist these millions with some
00:34:22
posters.
00:34:24
I am for the preservation of the CPSU, not a single person
00:34:28
was found, because it turned out that it is not a
00:34:30
party. I would say an organization for the
00:34:32
interests of
00:34:34
such a party of those who have adapted to power. And
00:34:37
if there is no power in this party, then it
00:34:40
has its members. The
00:34:42
churches of the
00:34:44
Moscow Patriarchate now look like the
00:34:45
same situation. So, when
00:34:48
congregations gather and decisions are made
00:34:51
to transfer certain cathedrals
00:34:54
to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, this does not
00:34:57
cause any process, as we can see.
00:35:05
UOC MP Union of Orthodox Journalists
00:35:08
question And where were you Orthodox
00:35:11
believers of Khmelnytskyi, why didn't you come out
00:35:13
to defend your Cathedral, there are no
00:35:16
animals, it means that people are also beginning to
00:35:18
realize that the Ukrainian Orthodox
00:35:22
Church of the Moscow Patriarchate is not
00:35:24
their church, and you talked about the Lavra, it
00:35:27
seems to me that many I did not realize,
00:35:29
moreover, I think even at the level of the authorities that
00:35:32
when it comes to the Lavra and the UOC MP starts to
00:35:35
protect the Lavra, it can cause a whole
00:35:39
series of processes that will develop one after the other,
00:35:41
you understand. How is
00:35:45
this
00:35:51
relay of events that just ordinary people,
00:35:54
ordinary people who will watch it's on
00:35:56
TV, how they defend their
00:35:58
presence in the Lavra, they will go to
00:36:00
cathedrals like this man in
00:36:02
Khmelnytskyi, asking them children's questions.
00:36:04
And why are you, after a year of war, still
00:36:06
praying in the Moscow Patriarchate, what have you
00:36:08
been fooled or what, people and all their
00:36:11
explanations Oh, this is our canonical church
00:36:13
They will not be accepted Do you understand this
00:36:15
in general, everything is
00:36:16
completely sectarian consciousness in
00:36:19
Ukraine, there is a real canonical church, the
00:36:21
Orthodox Church of Ukraine, it received a
00:36:24
tomos from Constantinople, and this must also be
00:36:26
explained in the west.
00:36:38
the Metropolitan acknowledged himself as the Patriarch of Byzantium
00:36:41
that when there was a Byzantine Empire and
00:36:43
no Moscow, there would be no Volodymyr, no
00:36:46
Suzdel, no Rostov, even
00:36:49
in the project. And the Kyiv Metropolis already
00:36:52
existed, and
00:36:53
this is a fact.
00:37:02
the time when there was
00:37:03
no Moscow, this is the real canon. And
00:37:07
regarding the presence of the Russian Church there,
00:37:10
this is a historical event, it happened because there
00:37:12
was a Russian Empire, this is political
00:37:14
history, now the Russian Empire does
00:37:16
not exist, there is no Russian state, and there
00:37:18
is no Russian Church. People who cling to the UOC
00:37:21
MP actually cling nizovpc MP A for the
00:37:24
Russian Church, therefore I believe that it would be really
00:37:26
important to ban now, and this is not a
00:37:29
religious ban, but a political ban, the
00:37:31
activities of the Russian Orthodox
00:37:33
Church on the territory of Ukraine and to
00:37:35
provide opportunities for the
00:37:36
Orthodox Church of Ukraine
00:37:39
to be recognized as the only canonical church on
00:37:43
our territory Orthodox I I think that
00:37:44
the tomos given by the
00:37:48
Ecumenical Patriarch could become
00:37:50
part of our legislation, since there is a
00:37:52
concordat, say, between Poland and the Holy
00:37:54
See,
00:37:55
and this is also absolutely normal in a
00:37:57
democratic European country,
00:37:59
not only with Poland, many
00:38:01
Catholic countries have such a concordat in
00:38:03
many Orthodox countries tomos is
00:38:05
part of the legislation where the
00:38:07
majority of the population are Orthodox
00:38:09
Christians.
00:38:11
And what then is the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
00:38:13
if it proves that it has
00:38:17
severed all ties with Moscow? It can
00:38:20
exist as a religious organization that
00:38:22
has many religious communities. However, do not
00:38:24
pretend to be the only canonical church
00:38:26
in Ukrainian land because it is a lie and
00:38:29
it is work for the benefit of Moscow and I will tell you
00:38:32
honestly as a person who has been
00:38:34
involved with the Russian
00:38:36
Orthodox Church for many decades.
00:38:46
in relation
00:38:49
to the Russians, it is a much more serious and
00:38:52
powerful tool of influence than the
00:38:53
Communist Party. Communist
00:38:55
ideology,
00:38:57
yes,
00:38:59
please, I want to change the conversation a second time
00:39:05
to the Ukrainian language.
00:39:21
why can there be
00:39:24
several languages ​​and in Ukraine there should be
00:39:27
only the Ukrainian language and
00:39:30
I know your view on that situation and I want
00:39:35
you to once again convey to our
00:39:39
listeners your position on this issue as
00:39:42
students and we actually want to
00:39:47
tell this once again the history of the Swiss
00:39:49
confederation
00:39:51
and the Union of various small but small states,
00:39:55
each of which respects its own
00:39:58
sovereignty. You will understand that in a canton the
00:40:01
pencil is
00:40:02
internal and in a canton the pencil is
00:40:05
external.
00:40:14
about the government, about
00:40:16
how the situation should develop, about
00:40:18
religious identity, and this
00:40:20
applies to the languages ​​of Switzerland.
00:40:35
in Grand Dundan, where people
00:40:38
speak the Holy Romansh language, where
00:40:40
it is taught in schools, and all this
00:40:42
is protected by the state, and all this
00:40:45
undoubtedly exists, but if, say,
00:40:47
you know French and go to
00:40:51
German, how will you work without
00:40:53
knowledge of German
00:40:55
languages ​​in a German office, being
00:40:58
French? you won't find a job in the language, and you won't find
00:41:00
an application, that's right, if you go to this
00:41:03
retro Romance part of Gromunden without
00:41:05
knowing the retro Romance language, you won't
00:41:07
find a job there because
00:41:08
it is state-owned at the level of these communities,
00:41:11
because different peoples live there, and that's why
00:41:13
Switzerland is not a multilingual country.
00:41:15
is a multilingual confederation because
00:41:18
different peoples live in it, the Germans live, the
00:41:20
French live, the Italians live in
00:41:22
which you are very retro, the
00:41:24
Yellow-Granbundeni in some other areas
00:41:26
where their language rights are ensured, the
00:41:28
same applies to Canada in Canada, there is an
00:41:30
English-speaking, French-speaking population, the Franco-
00:41:33
speaking population has experienced a lot
00:41:34
tragic pages in its history, we
00:41:36
should also remember that as a result it was
00:41:38
concentrated in Quebec and Quebec became
00:41:40
such a mountain fortress of French-speaking
00:41:42
Canada in Canada there are definitely two languages, but
00:41:45
if you move from English to
00:41:47
Quebec
00:41:48
You will have serious problems with
00:41:50
adaptation and vice versa if it is French
00:41:53
a person, you will not want to know
00:41:55
English and work in Toronto
00:41:57
or in Manitoba. You will have big
00:41:59
problems with speech adaptation, these are the
00:42:01
realities of Ukraine - this is a country in which the
00:42:04
vast majority of the population is
00:42:06
ethnic Ukrainians, it is
00:42:10
obvious that Ukraine must guarantee the
00:42:12
study of the languages ​​of national minorities, among
00:42:14
which there are Russians, but it is absolutely
00:42:16
obvious that when one nation makes up the
00:42:18
majority of the population, Ukrainians
00:42:20
make up exactly the same number of the
00:42:21
population in Ukraine. There, roughly like the
00:42:23
Poles, there in Poland, let’s say a little less,
00:42:25
but in general, so. That is why this nation has
00:42:28
such a language that this state must develop,
00:42:31
because it is this corresponds to how France
00:42:32
is developing the French language, Germany,
00:42:35
German, Italy, Italian here. I do not
00:42:37
understand at all what we are talking about.
00:42:38
Of course, we have a certain part of non-
00:42:40
Russian and non-Russian-speaking people, as
00:42:43
they like to say in the Kremlin, but from the
00:42:45
Russified population,
00:42:48
whose parents, grandparents, and grandparents also
00:42:51
spoke Ukrainian, which was with the
00:42:54
Russified speaks bad
00:42:55
Russian, all we want is to
00:42:57
give these people back the opportunity to
00:42:58
speak Ukrainian, and by the way,
00:43:01
what is happening today during the
00:43:03
war shows that the problem is not
00:43:05
that people did not know the Ukrainian language,
00:43:07
but that they were ashamed of it they were
00:43:10
embarrassed to speak because they were taught all the time
00:43:13
that this language is the language of the Seljuks, you know, I
00:43:15
see the situation here when people come
00:43:18
here. We are now speaking with you from Lviv.
00:43:20
I am sometimes in Lviv, then in Kyiv, and
00:43:22
the processes are not the same, of course, they have always
00:43:25
been linguistic, but simply I am interested in the fact that
00:43:26
people who came from the East of Ukraine to
00:43:29
Lviv, Russian-speaking people, switched to the
00:43:32
Ukrainian language in a week, not because
00:43:33
they studied the Ukrainian language, you understand, but
00:43:36
because they knew it simply where they
00:43:38
lived.
00:43:42
they speak the
00:43:45
Ukrainian language and they
00:43:47
spoke the Ukrainian language against their
00:43:48
parents on the phone there or when they
00:43:51
came to their village there or to their
00:43:53
small town and here in this big
00:43:55
city if you are a city person You
00:43:57
have to speak Russian here they
00:43:59
came to Lviv they see what does the city live
00:44:01
in? Kyiv is also a big city and the people
00:44:04
there are professionals and doctors and
00:44:07
artists. They all talk to each other in
00:44:09
Ukrainian on the streets with children in
00:44:13
pubs and they switched to the Ukrainian
00:44:15
language.
00:44:21
they knew her all their lives and were ashamed of
00:44:23
themselves. You understand.
00:44:25
This is an absolutely simple process when there is a
00:44:29
society that convinces you that you are
00:44:31
not that kind of person because you speak your native
00:44:35
language. This applies not only to language.
00:44:40
society had everything to be
00:44:42
ashamed of, not because of this condition, you speak celibate because
00:44:46
of this sexual orientation, a criminal
00:44:49
is not of this religion, you want to be a Catholic,
00:44:53
not an Orthodox, something is wrong with you, you must
00:44:55
be a spy, and that is how people were deprived of their
00:44:58
identity in any matter they did,
00:45:01
a person had to be ashamed of himself all the time
00:45:05
issues in which people, in principle, are not
00:45:07
ashamed, and the language issue is a
00:45:09
classic example of this imperial work.
00:45:12
All we want is to cleanse Ukraine
00:45:14
of these layers of the past.
00:45:18
I just want to add that for
00:45:20
centuries Ukrainians were exterminated in
00:45:23
eastern Ukraine, ethnic Russians were settled there,
00:45:25
and this must also be taken into account
00:45:29
parts of this history that this is
00:45:32
still accompanied by ethnocide
00:45:34
absolutely. I would say deliberately to Vitaly
00:45:38
at the end of our
00:45:41
conversation, I would also like to ask you
00:45:43
the question of the Ukrainian diaspora, which is currently
00:45:45
increasing as much as possible.
00:45:52
with the children who are
00:45:54
trying to find shelter here, they are
00:45:56
trying to somehow live fully and
00:45:59
also work and help. By the way, to my
00:46:01
family who remains in Ukraine, this is the role of the
00:46:04
diaspora in the matter of Ukraine's victory in this
00:46:06
war with Russia. How should we
00:46:09
act today, in your opinion, in order to be as
00:46:11
useful as possible in helping Ukraine, we are the
00:46:14
diaspora that has already been here for
00:46:18
decades, let's say all the waves of the diaspora, I don't
00:46:20
distinguish now and the diaspora that is
00:46:23
coming now because it is also a diaspora We do not
00:46:25
know whether these people will return to Ukraine
00:46:27
or whether they will stay here, nevertheless we are
00:46:29
here is like a single organism that
00:46:31
should be as useful as possible now in
00:46:34
Ukraine,
00:46:36
first of all I want to thank all the Ukrainians of
00:46:39
the diaspora who are helping
00:46:40
Ukraine today, who care about Ukraine and who are
00:46:43
ready to protect the interest of Ukraine. the
00:46:52
Jewish diaspora has
00:46:54
always helped Israel. In times of need, it
00:46:57
was always important for me to understand how
00:46:58
ready the Ukrainian diaspora is for such a
00:47:00
mobilization if Ukraine finds itself in
00:47:02
such a critical situation in which the
00:47:04
Jewish question has repeatedly found itself. to
00:47:10
every person who feels this
00:47:14
responsibility, this is the first moment, the
00:47:16
second moment is obvious, and we also have to
00:47:18
realize that people
00:47:21
may not return
00:47:23
to Ukraine so quickly,
00:47:26
many may not return to Ukraine, in principle, this is how
00:47:29
life can turn out,
00:47:31
and it is very important for us that the Ukrainian
00:47:33
diaspora, which will be formed as a result of
00:47:35
this war, here are different waves of emigration, it
00:47:39
was preserved as a Ukrainian diaspora so that
00:47:41
as many people as possible could be preserved as
00:47:43
Ukrainians, that they preserved their language, that they
00:47:45
preserved their connection with the state, just as the
00:47:48
Irish, say, in the United States,
00:47:49
maintain their connection with Ireland, and the Jews
00:47:52
maintain the connection with Israel and this is an
00:47:54
important part of state building in
00:47:57
both of these countries, you understand, it is possible without
00:47:59
such I would say the participation of the diaspora and that
00:48:03
state-building process, which
00:48:05
we observe in those countries, Ukraine and
00:48:08
the diaspora should become two parts of the
00:48:10
same organism, and this is our task for the
00:48:12
future
00:48:13
I think this is the most important thing,
00:48:16
we can talk with you about the nuances in the future,
00:48:18
we hope if you don't mind
00:48:20
contacting us from time to time and
00:48:23
somehow maintaining conversations and discussions with us,
00:48:26
if you don't mind, I
00:48:28
would actually like to go to Italy to invite you to
00:48:31
such radio broadcasts if possible. Thank you very much
00:48:34
for today's conversation and thank you for
00:48:38
agreeing to talk. It is very
00:48:39
important for us to have a connection with you and to have a
00:48:41
connection with Ukraine specifically about what you
00:48:44
just said, this is ours. This is what ours
00:48:47
feeds us. you know, it gives us the meaning of
00:48:50
life. It seems to me that this is
00:48:53
what we are doing here today, and we, as you
00:48:56
said, are working very hard for
00:48:58
American government officials in supporting
00:49:00
Ukraine and today, the role of the diaspora is
00:49:04
even I would say that like America
00:49:08
treats Ukraine and how
00:49:09
Ukraine helps. There is quite a large share of that
00:49:13
first work with those legislators,
00:49:16
senators and congressmen, with
00:49:19
city mayors and so on, but now the Ukrainian
00:49:22
diaspora here in Chicago is
00:49:24
extremely powerful with tens of millions of
00:49:28
dollars
00:49:29
helping Ukraine in various funds in our country
00:49:32
without many organizations that
00:49:35
do this I'm not talking about
00:49:36
individual assistance and thank you for
00:49:39
such a high assessment of our activities, we,
00:49:42
er, I have repeatedly seen your interviews and
00:49:46
where you speak very positively about
00:49:49
the diaspora.
00:49:54
in Ukraine, they understood that the role of the diaspora is
00:49:58
very important for itself, not only to
00:50:01
support the culture of singing, we will talk about
00:50:07
cultural heritage, but also economic
00:50:11
problems, and I believe that Ukraine will become a
00:50:13
great powerful state. Believe me,
00:50:16
it will come very quickly. Thank you, thank you,
00:50:19
Mrs. Oksana, thank you for today's
00:50:22
conversation and we look forward to the next
00:50:24
meeting. Glory to Ukraine Glory to the heroes May
00:50:30
Ukrainian
00:50:32
independent radio be happy

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