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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:52
[music]00:01:10
already on air Where is the music00:01:14
Here she is00:01:18
[music]00:01:19
[applause]00:01:20
[music]00:01:25
Good morning I hope now00:01:28
connect Irina Babayan at least00:01:30
at least she should be here soon00:01:33
We're going to have a pretty busy day today00:01:35
we have a lot of guests on the air including everyone00:01:38
the last hour we have Mikhail Khodorkovsky00:01:41
will be in touch before we reach him00:01:45
we'll get there00:01:46
we will have time to discuss a lot of things with you and how00:01:50
this is always a part of us, of course00:01:51
there will be Alexey Kuznetsov Irina still not00:01:54
with us not with us with us00:01:57
connects perfectly Yes, Vasily is here00:02:00
helps with this issue but I see00:02:03
just Irina who, although sideways,00:02:06
nevertheless, at least I already have her00:02:09
I see Good morning Irina00:02:11
Good morning Good morning Excuse me00:02:14
Please00:02:20
that's life00:02:22
I understand I hope he won't scream00:02:25
in Russian this is swearing This is basically everything00:02:28
the rest is hardly a problem at all00:02:31
Here But there is one more small difficulty00:02:34
and I wanted to ask if suddenly we can00:02:36
do without news in the first part00:02:38
I'll fix it later. Okay, let's do that00:02:40
we’ll do it, but for now let’s look at where ours come from00:02:44
listeners, I see for example Here00:02:46
Magadan, now I see Yekaterinburg Tver00:02:49
donkey Ufa Moscow Gulnara very, very happy00:02:54
that the call is either to us or from Moscow to us00:02:56
join us Well don't forget00:02:57
Jerusalem Novosibirsk Omsk Voronezh here00:03:01
hello Voronezh Ural in the broadest sense I00:03:05
as I understand it, Ural they have a name here in00:03:08
in mind Glory to Ukraine to Spain00:03:11
Kuban Slava As they say further in00:03:15
Holland Excellent I understand that00:03:18
after all00:03:19
right now to talk about not Holland00:03:22
Well what now00:03:24
Vologda Nizhny Tagil Irkutsk Vitebsk00:03:28
Freiburg Freiburg written Greetings from00:03:31
St. Petersburg Nizhny Novgorod or Swiss00:03:34
Germany Freiburg Germany written00:03:37
Literally further Limassol Azov00:03:41
Rostov region Moscow Ekaterinburg00:03:44
Chisinau Chisinau is also my hometown00:03:47
associated with the history of the Saransk family00:03:51
Copenhagen Kazan00:03:53
Murmansk well Moscow is a lot of Moscow but weight00:03:58
from Strasbourg Balashikha00:04:00
Ulan-Ude or Ufa decide how00:04:03
it says here you see some people are confused00:04:06
Novosibirsk Penza Vladivostok Milan00:04:09
Chernigov Orenburg Dnepr Wow00:04:12
what is your geography Surgut Bryansk is00:04:16
greets Hello Yeyska Vladivostok00:04:19
Los Angeles Tbilisi Minsk Riga Svoboda00:04:24
Ksenia calls for parrots00:04:27
joining this slogan of Freedom00:04:30
parrot Freedom to all Zelenograd Irina00:04:32
everything and once Zelenograd was there, then it’s possible00:04:34
the roll call is considered completed because00:04:37
that all the cities that are iconic for us have already existed00:04:40
designated Tatyana Kokareva again00:04:43
writes greetings from Orenburg and00:04:45
accordingly we can move on to00:04:48
what we planned Since we are00:04:52
no more news so much more necessary00:04:54
talk about what's happening here00:04:57
around and if you open fresh00:05:01
telegram channels are so copyright00:05:03
you'll see quite a lot00:05:04
the recording has Prigozhin but not the one who00:05:09
got used to it lately And the one who00:05:11
we are used to the usual Joseph Prigogine he00:05:15
talked on the phone supposedly00:05:19
talked to businessman Farhad00:05:21
Akhmetov Forbes list member and former00:05:23
senator and there on this recording that I00:05:26
I admit I didn't listen I didn't listen00:05:28
basically now I’ll tell you why there00:05:31
supposedly on this recording they criticize00:05:32
Putin is criticized by the regime, they say that00:05:35
where in general did she lead this buffoon PJ and00:05:39
so on but this is me just in case00:05:40
I quote cilantro-dza they quote the conversation00:05:43
You know a lot about that00:05:47
it is said that this recording was allegedly listened to Well00:05:51
more precisely, this recording was allegedly intercepted00:05:53
Ukrainian special services published everything00:05:56
these people say Well, it’s like very important00:05:58
document00:05:59
because of him we now know how to really00:06:02
in fact, the Elite relates to Putin and so on00:06:05
other00:06:06
I confess honestly in principle to anyone00:06:09
wiretapping private conversations00:06:11
published00:06:13
I have a very reserved attitude towards the media, especially00:06:17
unless we are talking about some existing00:06:19
military, for example, how do you know which beech00:06:22
transported something like that Because00:06:25
that this is not the most honest technique second You00:06:30
you know, I just remember so much00:06:31
wiretapping00:06:33
published in Times 11-12 where00:06:36
were Nemtsov where were Volkov where00:06:40
some people were mentioned, it means from00:06:42
opposition It seems to me that this is generally not00:06:45
I'll tell you my method straight away00:06:48
so every time I see something on00:06:51
everyone is discussing something in all seriousness00:06:52
wiretapping doesn't turn me on honestly00:06:57
I'll tell you00:06:58
this is first and second00:07:02
everyone says it's like oh look00:07:05
Putin's elites do not support Putin00:07:08
criticize him in personal conversations If00:07:13
This is news for you, what can I say?00:07:16
that it seems to me that this is not it for me00:07:20
so that it’s not news, but frankly speaking, even00:07:23
rather the opposite00:07:25
I think it's surprising that someone00:07:28
still believes that they need convinced people there00:07:31
People00:07:33
Putin's regime is all about this00:07:36
weathervane he loves weathervane he loves00:07:39
those who think one thing and say another00:07:44
all consists of such people00:07:47
I don’t know from the sandy Surkov who00:07:50
whatever, these are people who like to lie and00:07:56
surroundings and in general in this within this00:07:58
regime people who sincerely want there00:08:02
like war, for example, or like Putin and00:08:05
so they don't take root00:08:07
they take root only in runes - this is power00:08:10
liars is the power of those who constantly00:08:14
deceives if you speak in public00:08:18
one thing and personally another then you are part of it00:08:22
mode if you say both00:08:25
everywhere you are for the Alien mode00:08:30
I don't know if you've seen these discussions Yes I have00:08:33
I've seen it so many times Yes, but I haven't either00:08:36
I listened as you see you and me00:08:37
some in this sense00:08:39
others a little I talk a lot about it00:08:43
spoke00:08:47
about working with AP and so on exactly like that00:08:52
we came to such a conclusion that when you00:08:56
you are still talking, and when you are still00:08:58
do you recommend some useful things?00:09:00
no one needs this at all to be honest00:09:02
And you are absolutely right that all this00:09:05
rests on lies And even more so you should00:09:09
How can you still position your position?00:09:12
can you show it harder, it means inside Yes00:09:16
but outside you should be completely different00:09:18
communicate You must do something completely different00:09:20
broadcast otherwise you just won’t be there00:09:22
you'll get along and get out of there very quickly00:09:24
as we have seen, by the way, more than once00:09:27
example of governors, even I am sure that00:09:30
Vladimir Putin or someone like that00:09:32
as if Kirenko understands perfectly well that00:09:34
half of the presidential administration00:09:36
does not support to put it mildly00:09:39
supports the war that the path began00:09:42
at least half00:09:44
and I'm sure they are great00:09:46
they understand it doesn’t bother them too much00:09:49
they don't care by and large as long as they00:09:53
perform the functions that are needed for now00:09:55
they despite some personal00:09:57
disagreement are ready to play and comply with everything00:10:00
rules of the game00:10:01
everything will continue to continue like this Well00:10:05
let's talk about one more news in general like this00:10:08
news that unfortunately becomes00:10:10
already such a repeating pattern on00:10:14
Moscow residents opened a criminal case00:10:16
fakes about the army for a street question00:10:18
last summer they approached him00:10:20
from Radio Liberty and asked00:10:24
Does Russia need detente in relations with00:10:27
NATO and he said people appeared00:10:29
hatred for this whole thing which00:10:30
Putin started his gop-company replied00:10:33
man, first of all I want to say00:10:35
dear colleagues from different Media Well00:10:39
stop setting people up to walk with00:10:42
microphone from the camera and asks people00:10:45
on the street is to expose people in general to00:10:47
principle Vox priests so called Yes00:10:50
street polls genre journalist00:10:53
which was, well, I don't know, popular there00:10:55
80 and 9000:10:57
He's manipulative he's manipulative00:11:01
because you are very dependent on00:11:03
how you phrase your question00:11:05
It depends on how you choose Yes00:11:09
Honestly00:11:12
now now This genre threatens people00:11:16
literally a prison and frankly00:11:19
I want the genre to die But for some reason00:11:24
someone else wants to carry out this business and00:11:28
conducts and thus in general people00:11:31
substitutes on the other hand You know00:11:34
Adults probably understand what this is all about00:11:37
they go when when they get on such00:11:40
questions Well, in short, a person is imprisoned00:11:43
which also needs to be said here in any00:11:47
In this case, the main fault, of course, does not lie with00:11:50
who speaks and not who00:11:51
asks And in the state which00:11:54
starts things like this and what’s important00:11:57
happens people say but there is gpn00:12:00
YouTube Telegram doesn't work00:12:03
blocked available information that00:12:06
Then00:12:07
No information available00:12:10
Iron Curtain And in general it is possible00:12:12
calmly consume information Russians00:12:15
Then it’s your own fault for believing00:12:18
propaganda or something like that00:12:19
it works a little wrong it works It00:12:22
we also see these examples00:12:25
such cases start when for example00:12:27
someone you know was supposedly on the subway watching00:12:30
some Telegram chat on him Neighbor00:12:32
snitched on this man too00:12:35
starts right up to00:12:38
limit the discussion of information to00:12:41
you didn't know how other people think00:12:44
so that you get the feeling that00:12:47
maybe you are the only one00:12:48
you read forbidden things so that you are all about this00:12:50
there was a feeling of fear about it, yes, so that00:12:53
you were afraid to discuss with someone too much00:12:55
since that's exactly what it's for00:12:57
such intimidating processes for this and00:13:01
such intimidating cases are being started00:13:05
I was amazed, of course, by the speed with which00:13:09
all this happened, that is, the person saw00:13:13
called somewhere, told someone and through00:13:18
two stations are already checking this person00:13:20
Of course, how well the system is set up, how is everything00:13:26
just at the snap of your fingers Moscow is a city00:13:29
digitalization of the future you understand00:13:34
Sergei Semenovich works for a reason00:13:37
think about the score further Let's go I know what00:13:41
I want to say the thing is that00:13:43
if you remember such a person's last name00:13:45
Ruvinian and by name00:13:49
vitalisky00:13:56
he wrote me a note00:14:00
which designated three materials on00:14:02
which are worth paying attention to00:14:05
material on the site on the Echo website is the first00:14:08
most popular material of the week most00:14:10
popular material on the Echo website for this00:14:13
week This is Konstantin Sonin with his00:14:16
article successor00:14:18
Sonin paid attention to who met and00:14:21
saw off Xi Jinping namely00:14:22
inconspicuous Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry00:14:24
Chernyshenko and he analyzes what it is00:14:27
could this mean that this is a new successor?00:14:30
which00:14:35
that's exactly how he met and00:14:38
saw him off and now00:14:40
Sonin writes in detail on this topic by the way00:14:43
speaking in Sonin himself00:14:48
who can express himself00:14:55
By the way, yesterday they opened a criminal case for00:14:58
fakes of the armed forces Well, in general, in00:15:01
anyway we support00:15:04
Konstantin Sonina and he is wonderful And I00:15:08
I'm glad that he is read a lot on our website00:15:10
come if you haven't read it yet Read it00:15:12
the most controversial material as00:15:15
determined by Vitaly himself debatable00:15:17
material and the fact that there are likes on the site00:15:19
and dislikes and that's where the most is00:15:22
a large number of likes and dislikes00:15:25
guess who this character is who is calling00:15:27
such a discussion Valery Solovei00:15:32
Valery Nightingale and This interview is from00:15:36
morning spread of last week of our00:15:39
colleagues of our persons00:15:41
Yes, so against the backdrop of an issued warrant for00:15:44
Putin's flight and trips to Mariupol or00:15:46
Putin is either a double, as Valery says00:15:49
nightingale In general Revelation and forecasts00:15:51
professors arouse increased interest and00:15:54
ambiguous relationship between our audience00:15:56
If you haven't seen it yet, please00:15:58
Well, the third material is according to opinion00:16:01
Vitaly what in theory should have been00:16:04
read a lot I mean it's crazy00:16:05
interesting but at the same time at least ours00:16:08
the audience usually likes this but at the same time00:16:10
for some reason this doesn't have many views yet00:16:12
please note this is the program I want00:16:14
tell Ksenia Larina00:16:18
they got it hot hot yeah00:16:23
I must say by the way that Ksenia She is not00:16:25
only he does it on his channel00:16:27
program but she is still collaborating with00:16:29
insider And now we have these programs00:16:33
Ksenia is also important, posted on her site00:16:35
website and in our audio stream Yes we are00:16:38
agreed with the insider to do A00:16:40
By the way, since we're talking00:16:42
cooperation remember maybe00:16:44
once upon a time Podcasts of a new newspaper were published00:16:46
on radio Ekho Moskvy and now they are coming out00:16:49
on our website of the new newspaper in00:16:52
audio stream Don't forget their FM point00:16:54
online or download the application via00:16:57
application you can always go to the site00:16:59
without VPN further if you allow or you00:17:03
Do you want to say something Irochka I’m sorry00:17:05
please, I'm just fighting with Wi-Fi here00:17:07
I can't connect my computer to00:17:12
it's all coming00:17:15
By the way, when talking about Konstantin00:17:20
Sonin said he remembered that very many00:17:23
wrote about Konstantin Sonin because00:17:27
it just so happens that there is a lot in my feed00:17:29
former teachers or even current ones00:17:31
HSE teachers and of course how00:17:35
Konstantin Sonin as a teacher00:17:36
there were a lot of kind words yesterday00:17:39
written I want to join them again00:17:42
Maybe you know what I noticed00:17:45
attention If we are talking about the fact that00:17:48
one way or another happens on the networks I00:17:52
I’ll probably say about Lily Chanysheva who00:17:55
today we will talk to her lawyer00:17:58
but the thing is that the other day it turned out00:18:00
500 days already from the date of her arrest00:18:02
can you imagine more than a year 500 days soon00:18:06
she will be two years old00:18:08
there and only for the first time they allowed00:18:12
meet my husband as far as I know00:18:15
yesterday there was also supposed to be a meeting with00:18:17
parents I hope that I hope that she00:18:20
passed Well, the news that yesterday was very00:18:24
much talked about Russia places in00:18:28
Belarusian tactical nuclear weapons00:18:30
there was a lot of talk about this yesterday00:18:34
discussed this but the main argument00:18:37
yes yes the main argument is that00:18:40
The Americans are placing in Europe and we will00:18:42
post we do everything this is how they do it we00:18:45
we do everything as they say Vladimir00:18:46
Putin but you know what's interesting00:18:57
everything is like theirs00:19:03
What I liked most about this story00:19:05
I liked the reaction of the United00:19:07
States00:19:08
they said yes, ok okay, posted00:19:13
Posted we still don’t believe that you00:19:16
decide to use something Okay, here you go00:19:19
this is how they roughly reacted to it00:19:22
in general you probably know somehow00:19:25
disappointing those who make such decisions00:19:28
accepts Well, dear friends, let's00:19:31
move on I see what's in our chat00:19:35
reacted to Lily Chanysheva write00:19:39
freedom of individuals What I can only00:19:41
join this slogan Judging by00:19:45
everything is accelerating according to her judgment00:19:47
That's why we decided to talk to her00:19:50
lawyer and of course we will be more00:19:52
Keep a close eye on things these weeks00:19:56
how the trial is going on, but now we00:19:59
getting ready to welcome Alexey00:20:01
Kuznetsov who is already connecting to us00:20:03
now I even see how he is like him00:20:06
connected connected therefore we00:20:08
ready to welcome Alexey Kuznetsov00:20:10
Hello Alexey Valerievich Dobroye00:20:12
morning Maxim Good morning everyone00:20:16
Well00:20:20
Elusive King Elusive King00:20:24
Episode 2 Yes, just for me as quality00:20:28
can you tell us the epigraph yesterday00:20:30
Deputy Chairman of the Council00:20:32
Security00:20:35
gave it means00:20:39
the news is not sure that I am quoting good news00:20:43
the horsemen of the Apocalypse are already on their way and00:20:45
you can't continue your movement00:20:48
doubt I mean what is visible now00:20:51
there's no need to sneak him away. Well, if they00:20:53
have already moved I really strongly suspect00:20:55
that I don’t know about the other three But00:20:58
The rider on the red horse - it was not00:21:00
rider it was an ordinary squirrel00:21:02
has already managed to shed means Well, good00:21:06
they will still notice that you are most likely00:21:09
read Dmitry Anatolyevich they listened00:21:12
because I know Dmitry Anatolyevich00:21:17
and he will never say Apocalypse he00:21:20
Apocalypse always says but this00:21:24
dubious emphasis00:21:26
nevertheless I Well okay If suddenly00:21:29
they will put 2 bears in front of me00:21:33
I will always determine which one is real00:21:35
You see, this is the one who says00:21:37
Apocalypse00:21:41
it immediately feels professional00:21:44
Russian language is a famous excuse00:21:46
about the author's punctuation00:21:48
it is known that the author Yes, if he needs00:21:51
something there then he can rosentale in general00:21:54
throw out the window stage like Mayakovsky00:21:57
Where I want there by the way about doubles00:22:00
We talked to you yesterday, we don’t remember00:22:02
this Soviet first Russian fairy tale00:22:04
Of course then the Soviet film adaptation00:22:06
When you needed to remember mom there00:22:10
the character was cloned there stood00:22:13
how many are the same 7 and he had to00:22:16
determine which one is real00:22:18
said What is your will, what is not your will, don’t remember00:22:24
viewers will definitely remember how00:22:28
I don’t remember, but that means00:22:32
our today's fairy tale is called poison00:22:35
the eiderdown is gone but we won't talk00:22:38
only about those who left but also about those who didn’t00:22:41
managed to leave because the count is still here00:22:44
like this in general00:22:47
without a clear advantage in one direction or another Yes00:22:51
Well, I didn’t count exactly to one00:22:55
points, but that’s about the weighted average00:22:58
three equal groups of those who have not already left those00:23:03
who is leaving and those who have left00:23:05
finally That is, those who managed00:23:07
move to the best of all worlds before00:23:09
how he caught up with him at worst00:23:13
warrant court but let's first with00:23:17
so let's start with the idea that the ruler is well00:23:21
or let's just say it's not necessary00:23:24
ruler No00:23:25
one of the highest officials in the state having00:23:29
can have a big impact on politics00:23:32
held personally liable00:23:34
for its actions this is generally an extremely idea00:23:37
recent because actually in00:23:42
classical perception, let's say Monarch00:23:47
The monarch is the person who bears00:23:49
responsibility to higher powers00:23:53
Of course it doesn’t mean that a monarch is not allowed00:23:55
suppose there is a murder there in history00:23:58
there are many such examples, let's take there that00:24:00
Byzantine history where the emperors00:24:03
periodically sent to the next world00:24:06
Let's take Roman history, which00:24:09
yesterday we remembered But it was done00:24:11
completely in the course of political struggle and00:24:15
no one as a rule00:24:17
international court without international00:24:19
consequences00:24:20
And generally without any special accusations. Well00:24:24
there’s something unclear here, but he was bothering me. Yeah, well00:24:28
It’s clear to everyone that when there means Richard00:24:33
the third dies in the Battle of Bosoort but00:24:37
no one needs any special explanation00:24:40
Henry the seventh is right why is he right Well00:24:42
because he succeeded00:24:43
it worked Well, the winners As they say00:24:46
not the point for the first one either00:24:49
I had to explain anything to anyone there Yes00:24:53
this question is in the Higher00:24:57
jurisdiction so it’s not for us to say so00:25:01
weak people here about something but00:25:04
New time with its new enough00:25:08
or rather well forgotten00:25:10
ideas about the meaning of law00:25:12
I asked this question for the first time as far as I know00:25:16
I can judge what is called a rib in00:25:19
time of trial with close king Charles00:25:22
the first steward who was00:25:24
accused of being a tyrant00:25:27
in that it means he violated natural00:25:31
the rights of the English people and here it is00:25:35
then I tried to build my defense00:25:37
on00:25:39
defending the thesis that it is not in00:25:44
the jurisdiction of the earth's court is not within the jurisdiction00:25:47
Parliament will judge him he will bear00:25:50
responsibility only to the highest00:25:52
judges00:25:53
him this00:25:56
hesitating him so to speak to this00:25:58
to the highest court and delivered Well, it will happen again00:26:02
this is all00:26:03
in France at the end of the 18th century when it was worse00:26:08
charges will be brought against Louis XVI00:26:12
Louis XVI was somewhat more productive00:26:16
will try to choose a line of defense and will00:26:18
essentially including rejecting00:26:21
accusations of their judges but in general what00:26:24
it’s clear that it was quite a process00:26:27
a predetermined outcome of course00:26:30
Louis 16 is far from the first00:26:34
candidate if you look at00:26:37
French kings preceding him00:26:39
to take a place in the dock00:26:41
but that’s how it happened Yes, it’s a revolution00:26:45
be guided by your legal consciousness and00:26:47
their ideas about justice00:26:49
It was interesting there when00:26:50
When was Oliver Cromwell's restoration00:26:53
uh, they tried me too and then they got me00:27:01
It's absolutely terrible, so the question arises00:27:05
When was the first time00:27:07
an attempt is made00:27:10
present00:27:12
ruler00:27:14
accuse the ruler of crimes then00:27:17
what we call international today00:27:19
crimes00:27:20
give it00:27:21
to some uh international court here00:27:24
it turns out that such an attempt00:27:26
this is the first time I've done this yesterday00:27:28
announced at the end of our previous00:27:30
transfer is being undertaken for the first time00:27:33
the end of the First World War when00:27:35
victorious powers, I remind you that although00:27:40
it's never official so to speak00:27:43
announced but after the First World War00:27:46
war, such an idea arose about00:27:48
main00:27:50
there are five winners Yes USA00:27:53
UK France Italy Japan and00:27:56
such second-order winners Russia00:27:59
not present in either the first or the second00:28:02
list because, as is known, Soviet00:28:05
Russia in March 18 concluded00:28:08
a separate world and thereby yourself00:28:10
crossed off from the list of powers for the future00:28:14
Here are the winners00:28:15
the idea arose to put all00:28:19
responsibility for the world war for her00:28:22
untying for crimes committed during it00:28:25
crimes against Germany as we know00:28:28
more than a dubious idea which00:28:30
then largely sows the seeds00:28:34
World War II will be opened to Hitler00:28:36
the path to power and a lot of other things in general00:28:40
there will be any negative consequences00:28:42
have but at that moment here is the winner00:28:44
it seemed like a good idea and00:28:48
British Prime Minister David00:28:50
George, for example, is motivated by the fact that Kaiser00:28:53
Wilhelm the second must present before00:28:56
some international court to say that00:28:58
he is to blame for the fact that he is up the world in00:29:01
war quote Let the German people know00:29:04
what if its rulers break the laws00:29:08
humanity, the military power of Prussia is not00:29:11
will be able to protect them from retaliation otherwise00:29:14
the suffering of this war will be in vain00:29:17
this idea will be like a referendum until 2000:29:20
20 years of repetition if we don’t punish00:29:23
those responsible for starting the war if we don’t00:29:27
we will punish those who committed massacres00:29:28
war crimes then the suffering of this00:29:31
wars will disappear What is called in Thun00:29:34
just in case, let's remind you that00:29:37
really the First World War00:29:39
amazed contemporaries with its massiveness00:29:41
death00:29:42
use of chemical weapons and so on00:29:45
on and on and on it really was a shock00:29:47
for the world00:29:49
Yes, but the first shock is chemical weapons00:29:52
This is the 15th year and the first is a shock to the world00:29:55
will00:29:56
When00:29:58
will be applied en masse00:30:01
various repressive measures up to00:30:04
killings against civilians and00:30:07
it was then, back in the fourteenth year in00:30:10
time of the German offensive on France00:30:11
will speak unmotivated00:30:14
destruction of cities and not motivated00:30:17
persecution of civilians and00:30:19
so on And then of course after Prita00:30:21
chlorine and everything else they will start talking about00:30:24
and about other things And then uh then00:30:28
in fact, they were not just made00:30:30
statements but some have been taken00:30:32
first steps to organize00:30:36
this kind of process is also in the text00:30:38
main peace treaty of Versailles00:30:41
Yes, the central one from a whole bunch of peaceful00:30:45
contracts which00:30:49
Shatov system Absolutely correct This is00:30:51
It was called Yes, that's where the memory pops up00:30:55
for example, the Treaty of Trianon is one of00:30:57
contracts like this in the text of this00:31:01
the main Treaty of Versailles will appear00:31:03
Article 227 which says allied00:31:08
powers present William II00:31:10
Hohenzoller Well, the former German00:31:11
the emperor is publicly accused of00:31:14
insult to international morality and00:31:16
Sacred power of the treaty special court00:31:19
will be formed to judge the accused00:31:22
providing him with a guarantee of the right to defend himself00:31:25
means the court will consist of five00:31:28
judges appointed by the united states00:31:30
Great Britain France Italy Japan here00:31:33
he is a list of first order winners00:31:35
the court will judge based on the motives suggested00:31:39
the highest principles of international00:31:41
policies in caring for provision00:31:44
respect for international morality00:31:47
The point is that the amount of time00:31:50
truly an international court00:31:53
who could judge the ex00:31:55
there is no German Emperor but00:31:58
The International Court itself is the same00:32:01
Gaga which he loves today00:32:04
he refers to it already is true he00:32:07
completely unsuitable for those purposes00:32:09
which were declared by Versailles00:32:11
He was created by agreement after the first00:32:14
The Hague Conference in 1899 which00:32:18
was, by the way, organized according to00:32:21
initiative of the Russian Emperor00:32:22
Nicholas II and as far as I know in the nuts00:32:25
about this there is something there00:32:26
memorial or plaque or monument00:32:29
or something like that00:32:30
so the purpose of this conference was not00:32:34
creation of a judicial body for the purpose00:32:36
conference was to try to work out00:32:38
certain rules certain laws of war which00:32:43
this should not be violated, so to speak00:32:46
system of Gaga conventions first second00:32:49
The Hague Conference then after the Second00:32:52
World War substantially supplemented00:32:55
modified by the Geneva Conventions Here00:32:57
she created and laid the foundations00:33:00
International humanitarian law in its00:33:02
modern version of why Gaga doesn’t00:33:06
by chance The fact is that the venue00:33:10
first international peace conference00:33:12
was chosen00:33:14
as a sign of deep respect for the outstanding00:33:19
lawyer one of the creators may be00:33:21
even there he is sometimes called father00:33:25
modern International00:33:26
humanitarian law to a Dutch lawyer00:33:29
Gog to Grotz who in the 17th century00:33:32
noted, among other things, famous00:33:35
a thick treatise on the law of war and00:33:39
world, that’s actually why Yes, that’s all00:33:42
the rest will come later00:33:47
grew like this as one of the consequences of this00:33:51
the first Hague conference was00:33:53
Creation00:33:55
permanent court of arbitration00:33:58
this organ is now called00:34:01
continues to act is like this00:34:04
in the oldest way ever00:34:06
current international court in the world00:34:08
we don't often hear about this today00:34:11
permanent court of arbitration00:34:14
this is the last time she's loud00:34:16
sounded at least to our00:34:18
countries is when she took part in00:34:21
proceedings in the Yukos case because00:34:24
What is a permanent court of arbitration00:34:26
court arbitration court This is the court that00:34:29
created by the parties to the conflict00:34:32
any arbitration proceedings00:34:34
is possible only insofar as everything00:34:37
the conflicting parties agreed00:34:40
that Yes, we are ready for this body00:34:42
submit consideration of our dispute and we00:34:45
ready to accept it in advance A priori00:34:49
decision How fair there and so on00:34:52
but in the Yukos case there were many different00:34:56
there were a lot of lawsuits00:34:59
looked at her in different ways00:35:02
authorities but in particular including in00:35:05
this permanent court of arbitration00:35:07
which then if you remember00:35:10
recognized Russia as obliged to pay 5000:35:14
billions of dollars but then the truth is00:35:17
the decision was argued in the district court00:35:21
Gaga who turned out to be a complicated scheme00:35:24
appellate authority for this00:35:26
international arbitration court and that00:35:28
canceled due to technical and legal reasons00:35:31
considerations now in this story moss00:35:34
we won't give it. It's quite far from00:35:36
our consideration00:35:37
why didn't it work after the first00:35:40
world war little night independent00:35:43
Holland to which the former Kaiser fled00:35:47
the emperor is so officially a position00:35:50
called Yes, that means I said stupidly00:35:53
Kaiser is the emperor kaisers king00:35:56
Yes Kaisernik because he is the emperor00:35:58
German King of Prussia at the same time00:36:00
so Virgen the second fled to Holland00:36:03
and the Dutch Queen Wilhelmina him00:36:06
Theo and a big fan, so to speak00:36:08
she said that we didn’t squeeze him out because00:36:11
that if we give him away it will be00:36:15
significant violation of the principle00:36:18
sovereignty00:36:20
the Netherlands and ultimately00:36:23
The powers of the Victors did not insist00:36:28
Great Britain even according to diplomatic00:36:30
channels there will transmit to the Dutch00:36:32
government that it respects him00:36:34
solution Why do you know so I understand that00:36:39
the general opinion was expressed by US President Woodrow00:36:41
Wilson, who very actively took00:36:43
participation in the settlement of pacifications00:36:47
But this word does not fit here in general00:36:51
building a post-war world let's say00:36:54
and he said that if we go for it00:36:57
insist if we go over the knee00:36:59
we will turn this situation around then this00:37:02
this fragile balance will shift00:37:04
which is more or less outlined therefore00:37:06
to hell with it, well, we couldn’t00:37:09
called to snatch Socks from him Well,00:37:12
boxing is the result00:37:14
a couple pretty much went off the whistle00:37:17
because ultimately punish for00:37:20
the commission of war crimes was00:37:22
entrusted to the German national court00:37:26
Yes, the government of the Moscow Republic00:37:28
really organized the series00:37:30
Lyapitsyge trials on the bench00:37:33
the defendants sat few people outside00:37:36
Famous German general officers00:37:38
someone was acquitted00:37:41
sentenced there to short terms00:37:44
jail time is enough00:37:46
then they left pretty quickly00:37:48
amnesty in general00:37:50
received zilch, that is, Wilhelm in absentia00:37:53
not tried no00:37:55
Because I think there was an understanding here00:37:58
that trial in absentia is even greater00:38:02
will cause controversy doubts in00:38:04
It’s better not to judge correctness at all00:38:07
rather than making a comedy00:38:10
but taking into account that in the future00:38:15
it was possible in a civilized way00:38:18
resolve disputes between states00:38:21
at the stage of their emergence the League of Nations00:38:24
which arose as one of the results00:38:27
means the Versailles conference00:38:30
creates00:38:32
permanent chamber of international00:38:34
justice This is the predecessor00:38:37
modern international court of the UN00:38:41
This00:38:43
court a judicial body that exists00:38:46
to resolve disputes either between00:38:49
states00:38:51
or in principle a party to the dispute may00:38:54
be some kind of non-state but claim00:38:57
addressed to the state Well, here's an example for00:39:01
20 years of its existence this very00:39:03
the court of the League of Nations let's call it that00:39:06
reviewed completed review If not00:39:09
I’m wrong 29 cases and gave there about00:39:13
the same number of questions also their own00:39:15
conclusions and here is one of these cases00:39:18
for example it was to00:39:20
Budapest University00:39:22
before the First World War had some00:39:25
property in my opinion land plots00:39:27
Or maybe there is a publication on them on00:39:30
territories that after the First World War00:39:33
war went to Czechoslovakia, that is, until00:39:36
the war she was Hungarian after the war00:39:39
it means she turned out to be Czechoslovakian when00:39:42
Budapest University tried this00:39:45
property means returning to yourself Well00:39:47
achieve more accurately00:39:49
consolidating it in the new state00:39:52
nevertheless, as their government00:39:55
Czechoslovakians refused him and then he was00:39:57
created00:39:59
Hungarian-Czechoslovak Arbitration Court00:40:01
to consider this issue, he adopted00:40:04
a solution that did not satisfy00:40:07
accordingly, the leadership of Budapest00:40:09
University So they turned to00:40:12
this chamber, that is, this court, he dealt with00:40:14
consideration of territorial disputes00:40:17
property disputes of everything that00:40:20
stemmed from some00:40:22
right00:40:24
No, it’s not a crime, but that’s what00:40:28
concerns crimes here of course00:40:31
grandfather of modern international00:40:34
the tribunal became modern Nuremberg00:40:37
International Criminal Court Sorry00:40:39
the Nuremberg Tribunal misspoke00:40:42
absolutely unique of course00:40:44
enterprise that was able to start00:40:50
work and finish the job exactly because00:40:52
that it was done quickly immediately after00:40:56
the end of World War II when00:40:59
relations between the allies have already begun00:41:01
deteriorate but have not deteriorated to that extent yet00:41:04
the extent that the creation of this court would be00:41:07
it is simply impossible as a result00:41:10
really00:41:12
international tribunal consisting of judges00:41:15
their deputies, one from each00:41:18
parties from four accusers00:41:22
from four countries each with their own team00:41:24
and so on The Soviet Union is on the team00:41:27
the prosecutors were represented by Roman Rudenko00:41:29
before this, the prosecutor of the Ukrainian USSR00:41:33
famous writer Lev Sheinin was one of the00:41:36
team of prosecutors too00:41:39
ultimately negotiate this00:41:41
tribunal and the principles by which it00:41:44
the tribunal was guided by what they laid down00:41:46
created the most important precedent00:41:49
the precedent is that00:41:52
senior statesmen can00:41:55
be personally responsible for00:41:57
massive violations of the International00:41:59
humanitarian law then, when creating00:42:02
this tribunal immediately made a reservation00:42:05
specific culprits for specific00:42:07
crimes punitive actions00:42:10
executions and everything else are subject to00:42:13
jurisdiction of the national courts of those countries00:42:16
on the territory in which they committed these00:42:18
crimes after the war indeed00:42:20
and in France on the territory00:42:23
Poland and in many cities of the Soviet00:42:26
Union went through these processes00:42:30
Nazi war criminals for00:42:33
committing specific atrocities00:42:36
the main two and a half dozen00:42:39
found us like me on trial00:42:41
Nuremberg Well, the same tribunal00:42:43
the Far East, respectively, in the end00:42:45
and then comes a period when between00:42:49
the setting is what to create00:42:51
international tribunal00:42:54
impossible00:42:56
from representatives of Well, let's say different00:42:59
systems and everything will continue until the 90s00:43:04
years When00:43:06
as a result00:43:08
greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the XX00:43:10
centuries such conditions are created again And now00:43:14
then it arises you can say dad00:43:17
current international criminal court00:43:20
this is the Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia00:43:24
younger brother tribunal for Roland Well and in00:43:28
beginning00:43:29
of the current millennium when so to speak00:43:32
a fundamental decision is made that00:43:34
these should not be one-time trials, but this00:43:37
must be permanent00:43:39
international justice institutions00:43:42
an international criminal case arises immediately00:43:45
I want to say about this Today they say00:43:46
a lot of things00:43:49
this idea even today is already so to speak00:43:53
after 20 years of its existence it is far from00:43:57
the whole state seems00:43:58
undisputed and some of the largest00:44:01
the most influential states in the world00:44:04
participates in the work of the tribunal or say00:44:09
so does not participate as observers00:44:12
by ratifying the Roman Statute that is00:44:14
fundamental documents And this is the USA00:44:18
this China This is India that is, according to the most00:44:22
conservative estimates of countries in which00:44:24
half the world's population lives00:44:27
participate Why Americans do not participate00:44:29
for example because they say that00:44:32
jurisdiction of the tribunal for so much00:44:35
vague means stated that00:44:38
he can turn into not a tribunal I'm done00:44:42
time the same error Yes00:44:43
international criminal court mousse over what00:44:46
Medvedev or his double I don’t know anymore00:44:49
this is subtly again joking something about00:44:52
the fact that there is a garbage dump00:44:54
organization but00:44:58
we love him not only for this00:45:02
only on islands, which means00:45:05
what can you say in which company00:45:08
today there will be a person in relation00:45:11
which an international warrant has been issued00:45:14
criminal court and which is not going to00:45:17
Appear on this warrant that he has00:45:20
will for you will list everyone No00:45:24
of course, although there weren’t so many of them possible00:45:27
I would list by last name Yes, but I don’t00:45:29
it seems worth doing I think00:45:32
It's better to just focus on a few00:45:34
your attention Here's whose company Well here00:45:38
for example Joseph Kony it's very offensive that he00:45:43
namesake of a prominent Russian lawyer00:45:46
Yes and dogs Yes absolutely true00:45:53
who once organized an army00:45:57
God's resistance That is, he is like this00:46:00
action movie godlike and that means what's what00:46:05
He is accused of being accused of00:46:08
the result of unleashed with his most active00:46:11
involving the Civil War00:46:13
approximately00:46:16
66,000 children were forcibly00:46:21
recruited into the ranks of these same00:46:25
[music]00:46:26
paramilitary organizations have become00:46:29
militants means that in total00:46:32
about two million people inside00:46:35
countries have become displaced people00:46:39
rapes in murders Well that is in00:46:41
in general the whole bouquet so to speak00:46:43
crimes since 200600:46:48
wanted by Interpol on warrant00:46:50
international criminal court in this00:46:52
if he is one of the earliest if not00:46:55
the earliest So who else is there in this00:46:59
companies00:47:02
hiding00:47:05
wonderful Yes this is For example00:47:09
Mohammed Harun or Akhmat Mohammed Harun00:47:13
one of the five Sudanese who00:47:16
wanted for war crimes and00:47:19
crimes against humanity in00:47:21
time of conflict in Darfur But here it is00:47:24
since it's quite possible00:47:27
the international court will appear what is on00:47:30
he is currently under arrest00:47:31
negotiations are ongoing between the Sudanese authorities00:47:35
about his extradition, the prosecutor of the international00:47:38
criminal court has not been to court and00:47:40
including discussing the issue of extradition00:47:42
So it's quite possible that something like this00:47:45
it will be said but what about00:47:48
current rulers00:47:51
then here perhaps00:47:54
the first such acting ruler00:47:58
which00:48:00
eventually made it to the prison00:48:04
cameras are no longer preliminary but cameras in00:48:07
who are serving sentences according to the sentence00:48:08
It was like00:48:10
Liberian Dictator Charles Taylor00:48:13
who was sentenced to 50 years00:48:16
imprisonment use of children00:48:18
as a soldier terrorism sexual00:48:21
violence forced slavery00:48:23
looting and so on, well, taking into account that00:48:26
that at the time of his sentencing00:48:28
I was 64 years old, it’s clear that this is in general00:48:32
he is serving a life sentence in00:48:35
Britain for some00:48:37
sudden change in the political situation00:48:39
at home did not lead to the fact that he is this00:48:42
he won't serve his sentence, so what do you need?00:48:46
say that in principle00:48:48
there is also a practice00:48:52
so-called mixed courts for this purpose00:48:56
so that the state aspires00:48:59
punish so to speak man00:49:01
who committed a crime on his territory00:49:03
not to deprive such a right there are examples00:49:06
mixed courts and for example already several00:49:11
decades such mixed courts00:49:14
operate in Cambodia which are engaged00:49:16
investigation and punishment for00:49:19
crime of the red regime blood00:49:21
these courts consist partly and with00:49:25
Cambodian lawyers judges partly from00:49:28
judges representing international00:49:30
structures and main function of these00:49:34
international judges is that00:49:36
that they are helping their Cambodian00:49:38
bring standards to colleagues00:49:39
legal proceedings in accordance with00:49:42
international standards00:49:45
solutions when creating these00:49:48
mixed courts it was exactly like that00:49:50
what to judge by international standards00:49:54
very interesting experience of joint courts00:49:57
maybe he arrived and for example yes so00:50:00
to say there was also such a special court00:50:03
by the way, Leons are also mixed. By the way,00:50:05
saying I think that behind this In the known00:50:08
sense a great future because00:50:10
in fact, of course purely international00:50:14
court he comes across such a number00:50:17
additional complications here00:50:20
organization of his work and here when it seems00:50:22
the core is still national00:50:25
nose attracted by this00:50:27
international element which00:50:29
it becomes like this00:50:31
observer and participant at the same time00:50:33
such a player-coach Yes, I think so00:50:36
This is such a good form She00:50:39
really leaves a feeling00:50:41
justice and creates effective00:50:44
A model that is capable of justice00:50:45
implement as it seems to me but00:50:48
the most important question00:50:49
which shows all the practice here00:50:53
these international courts starting from00:50:55
Nuremberg question about how to judge00:50:58
on what basis to judge in accordance with00:50:59
what procedure do we use to resolve all these issues?00:51:03
question how to deliver00:51:07
the same for example Israel on this issue00:51:10
treated differently you have in the case of00:51:13
Eichmann Yes, and in general he took and delivered00:51:15
for example yes Or teams that are in00:51:18
basically yes they were looking for Nazis00:51:20
criminals and not necessarily the court anymore00:51:22
has passed and the sentence has been carried out00:51:24
cited00:51:27
also an option, also an option, you yourself00:51:30
you see, there are a lot of different things that come up here00:51:32
issues, to put it mildly, and legal ones as well00:51:36
questions and ethical issues and everything00:51:39
other things I'm afraid for now00:51:41
humanity will not turn into one00:51:45
the state is such a version of ours00:51:47
the future is the creation of a single one, so to speak00:51:50
all planetary human union00:51:53
Soviet Socialist it was one00:52:00
Yes, but in general the idea of a world state00:52:02
this idea is quite old it is so00:52:05
say back in the times of the French00:52:07
encyclopedists in the 18th century already00:52:09
existed Maybe this will come to an end00:52:11
Now if he comes then actually00:52:13
the problem will go away naturally00:52:15
while humanity is divided00:52:18
state borders In general00:52:20
of course Any any functioning00:52:22
international justice will be00:52:24
face serious problems00:52:27
the fact that the state has a lot of this, including00:52:30
protection from what if the state00:52:32
will be global uh will be where00:52:35
hide because it’s unclear with what00:52:37
it will be a global pole no Understand00:52:40
I’m right, I don’t drown for the world00:52:42
state let's hurry up faster I00:52:44
I understand perfectly well that there is a lot here00:52:46
say all sorts of things too00:52:48
hidden pitfalls Yes, but if this00:52:51
will happen if humanity agrees to this00:52:53
will come there once it seemed that before00:52:55
there are only a couple of steps left in that00:52:58
including after the First World War, also the League00:53:00
Nations were created right now right now right now00:53:02
now I will quickly become almost00:53:04
international government and so on00:53:05
there is nothing like humanity00:53:07
still generally holds on to00:53:09
national states I think that in00:53:11
foreseeable future and will be for them00:53:13
hold on Alexey Vasilievich I will pay00:53:15
Please note that when you listed different00:53:17
crimes of people who00:53:20
this international criminal court00:53:23
were wanted or were required or00:53:26
wished there was a lot of children's00:53:30
topics, namely the topics of involving children in00:53:33
war one way or another Yes, when children00:53:35
turn into Soldiers or something00:53:38
used for military purposes And from what00:53:41
From when did it become a crime?00:53:44
moment What is called for this for this00:53:47
it became customary to punish because00:53:50
in general We remember, on the one hand We00:53:52
we remember that in many Soviet schools but00:53:55
basic military training Yes, sort of00:53:57
teach a child to use a machine gun00:53:59
nothing wrong00:54:01
at what point does it become clear that00:54:03
There's no need to do this00:54:05
you know it becomes clear then00:54:08
when It's literally within a few00:54:11
years has become a large-scale practice and00:54:13
associated with processes that00:54:16
took place on the African Continent00:54:19
after almost00:54:23
all of Africa is literally exploding00:54:26
gained Independence and now they begin00:54:28
these monstrous external and civil00:54:31
wars in which00:54:35
The fact is that in Europe in European00:54:38
Wars use of teenagers Well it was00:54:42
of course occasionally Pioneer heroes00:54:45
Let's00:54:47
[music]00:54:51
famous shots like the last time there00:54:54
Hitler Yes, he got out of the bunker and here he is00:54:57
It's already April 45 there00:54:58
boys in fairy tales00:55:04
But that was all it was00:55:07
on a large scale these were one-time cases there00:55:10
Son of the regiment and so on and so on in00:55:12
these African warriors00:55:14
use of adolescents under 15 years of age00:55:17
age international standard given00:55:19
case 15 years so Soviet option00:55:21
ninth graders don’t fit there after all00:55:24
were usually over 15 years old yes00:55:27
here he is00:55:30
was banned by a number of international00:55:33
acts including conventions00:55:34
international convention on the rights of the child00:55:35
But this is exactly what African00:55:39
you know the case from the river of those convicted there00:55:41
True, the appeal stage is not yet00:55:43
passed among those convicted by international00:55:46
the criminal court has an absolutely terrible00:55:48
the story of a certain Dominic on Gvina is00:55:51
also Uganda uh person responsible00:55:54
for committing perfection terrible00:55:56
crimes but the fact is that he himself00:55:58
kidnapped by a soldier00:56:01
tried to escape when he was caught with00:56:05
his comrades forced him to go there00:56:07
the procedure, let's say, of initiation into00:56:10
as a result of which he was forced there with00:56:12
we live on the skin of one of our comrades00:56:14
collect yes, that is, this is a child who00:56:17
um This man who was a child00:56:20
absolutely out of his wits and has turned himself00:56:23
in such a way so to speak E Monsters and00:56:26
monsters have actually already been mentioned00:56:28
it was the Red Mers00:56:30
most common practice When00:56:32
specifically teenagers00:56:34
involved in mass murder because00:56:37
and it seemed easier for them to do it Yes if00:56:41
be Why did you notice this?00:56:43
because me last week00:56:44
I was amazed by the video from Kirov e Where is the third00:56:48
classmate e in khaki clothes with this00:56:51
crab means beret00:56:53
China poem In formation in which00:56:57
They are asking, as if Motherland, Give me a weapon in00:57:00
build me, call me and so on and there in00:57:03
in general, all these shelters, all the details like00:57:07
he dreams of dying there in the war00:57:11
Every time it's like when you see it00:57:13
happens to children when children mean in00:57:16
this uniform is dressed up and planted by some00:57:19
toy tanks I want to understand00:57:21
as far as what is this called a game00:57:24
or is it already a crime00:57:30
I want to say that in my deepest00:57:34
I'm convinced this is what's happening now00:57:36
so-called patriotic00:57:37
education is one of the most terrible00:57:40
crimes against the future of our country00:57:44
because what my exes do00:57:47
colleagues in the teaching profession in00:57:50
I'm basically not a person on this issue00:57:53
gloating not vengeful but here00:57:56
I want to fantasize about how00:57:59
I would hold them accountable for this00:58:02
Sorry00:58:11
some educational things that are at school00:58:14
is happening00:58:28
he will grow up and the war will still go on00:58:31
there he is being prepared for the fact that the war is still00:58:33
will go and these are the thoughts of course00:58:37
start to drive you absolutely crazy when00:58:39
children at that age are already being prepared00:58:44
What time frame do they invest?00:58:47
it's just scary that I00:58:51
Not00:58:52
Think00:58:53
that there is such a rational approach here00:58:56
who do this are adults Yes they are00:58:58
earn points today00:59:01
events take photos send00:59:03
department to report so to speak00:59:06
get categorized by decades I think00:59:09
What00:59:13
it turns out yes it turns out objectively00:59:17
it turns out and says crime00:59:19
Thank you very much Alexey Kuznetsov today00:59:22
told us international courts and00:59:26
those who left these international ships00:59:28
or didn’t leave, not everyone succeeded00:59:32
do Thank you very much with us00:59:36
only two tales But next time00:59:38
let's recoup00:59:40
Yes, but we will now listen to the news in00:59:43
performed by Irina Irina owes us00:59:46
one issue will now be read so much that00:59:49
let's just rock it all00:59:51
let's listen, yes, and after that we'll be there00:59:54
greet guests00:59:56
[music]01:00:03
[applause]01:00:06
[music]01:00:09
Washington makes it clear that it is not01:00:11
concerned about Vladimir Putin's statement about01:00:13
deployment of tactical nuclear weapons01:00:15
in Belarus the Pentagon emphasized that it is not01:00:18
consider it necessary to translate their own01:00:20
nuclear forces increased combat01:00:23
readiness after Putin's statement to the authorities01:00:26
Ukraine called on Europe to introduce new01:00:28
sanctions against Russia Kyiv opposes01:00:30
establishment of restrictions against Rosatom I01:00:33
asks to increase arms supplies earlier01:00:35
President Zelensky said that there is no01:00:37
may launch an offensive due to shortage01:00:39
ammunition01:00:40
according to the Red Cross in Bakhmut it01:00:43
the surrounding area still remains about 1001:00:46
thousands of civilians they live in01:00:48
destroyed houses without gas heating01:00:50
electricity and water as of 2401:00:52
February 2022 population of Bakhmut01:00:55
was about 84 thousand people01:00:58
head of the UN international agency for01:01:01
atomic atomic energy Rafael Grosse01:01:04
stated that he will visit next week01:01:06
Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant to personally01:01:08
assess the situation from a nuclear point of view01:01:11
security station since last March01:01:14
years is under Russian control01:01:15
troops And if the surrounding territories01:01:18
periodically subject to shelling01:01:21
Ukrainian creditors extended their actions01:01:24
moratorium on debt payments until 202701:01:27
the decision was made after achieving01:01:29
prior agreement with01:01:32
International Monetary Fund about01:01:33
allocation of 15 billion dollars to Kyiv01:01:36
as Bloomberg notes This is the first loan01:01:38
in the history of the IMF issued to the country which01:01:41
participates in a military conflict01:01:44
Ukrainian operators ukr transnafta01:01:47
plans to double the01:01:49
tariff for transit of Russian oil via01:01:51
main oil pipeline Druzhba as01:01:53
writes businessmen this is explained01:01:55
the costs of restoring the destroyed01:01:58
infrastructure according to the publication01:02:00
the final decision has not yet been made01:02:02
this issue needs to be agreed upon01:02:04
recipients of oil checks from Hungary and01:02:07
Slovakia in Israel organizers01:02:09
protests against judicial reform01:02:11
promise to hold promotions all next year01:02:14
week the Israeli Defense Minister proposed01:02:16
suspend the process of adopting the reform01:02:18
due to protest sentiments in the army01:02:20
other law enforcement agencies in his opinion01:02:23
it threatens the security of the country01:02:25
Novosibirsk held a rally against01:02:27
increase in housing and communal services tariffs, the action was01:02:30
agreed upon by about 300 city residents01:02:32
filed a collective complaint01:02:34
the Prosecutor General's Office is informed by local01:02:37
December 1, the cost of utilities in01:02:40
city for various positions increased from 1201:02:43
up to 17 one hundred percent just from asserts01:02:46
that life expectancy in the country01:02:48
increased by two years to 72 years old01:02:52
happened for the first time in modern Russia01:02:54
before this life expectancy01:02:55
decreased for two years in a row and hardened01:03:00
[music]01:03:03
it's really funny what they thought01:03:07
life expectancy Me too You know01:03:09
I have a straight eye I stopped at this01:03:11
I also don’t understand how they thought Well,01:03:13
in general they thought so that apparently very01:03:17
a lot of things were not taken into account, ok01:03:20
life expectancy in Russia01:03:28
Let's move on before I01:03:31
I’ll greet the guest and tell you what’s in the store01:03:33
Amateur so that there is a copper point there01:03:36
find not only books and magazines but also01:03:37
music albums of cult groups01:03:40
for example vinyl DDT creativity in the void01:03:43
2 with the autograph of Yuri Shevchuk01:03:45
time machine cds you are with01:03:47
come in with a postcard from Andrey Makarevich01:03:50
you buy or there is a point of copper, well, we01:03:54
We can already welcome you I hope Yes yes01:03:57
We can already welcome our guest01:03:58
Timur Umaru sinologists scientific01:04:01
Carne Foundation staff Hello01:04:04
Timur01:04:07
Timur is very grateful for the invitation01:04:10
dadir01:04:12
I wanted to ask Timur for us somehow01:04:15
put emphasis talked a lot01:04:18
about this meeting about arrival01:04:21
to Moscow and somehow place emphasis on01:04:24
what is the most important thing you would pay01:04:26
attention to the outcome of this meeting probably01:04:29
in fact if we look at the results01:04:32
It's not like there's anything to talk about01:04:35
nothing fundamental fundamental01:04:38
signed by the Forces of Siberia 2 as was the project01:04:43
long-term So there remains no01:04:45
new relationship here01:04:47
nothing01:04:50
in military terms it wasn’t said either01:04:53
but probably the most important thing that happened01:04:56
this is what the visit itself took place01:04:59
I smiled for three days and seemed very happy01:05:04
being in Moscow is all very important01:05:07
Especially considering how it is today01:05:11
feel like Vladimir Putin and How01:05:14
Today Russia probably looks like it01:05:17
never been in the last decade01:05:19
so isolated and so01:05:21
toxic and therefore the visit of Chapter Two01:05:24
The great power of today is very01:05:27
important, therefore the very fact of the visit is already01:05:30
important Timur Let's have a few then01:05:32
myths or conclusions that such01:05:36
world press You will say what of this01:05:39
rather it works in your opinion what doesn't01:05:41
firstly if we analyze the covers01:05:43
cartoons and so on We will see everywhere01:05:46
Vladimir Putin as attendant01:05:47
staff for Si He spreads red01:05:51
he carries the carpet as a table01:05:54
waiter and so on as far as01:05:57
we can really say that in this01:05:58
since this is precisely the context of the meeting that01:06:02
Russia and Putin personally01:06:06
ready for any conditions as long as China01:06:09
something came eventually01:06:12
Yes, in general, such caricatures are understandable01:06:15
logical they began to appear even before01:06:20
own war and before all this there was01:06:23
famous caricature of an economist and01:06:25
economist who Where on his knees01:06:29
The panda sat with small movements01:06:30
Russian flag01:06:31
That's why01:06:33
everything is logical here, but to say that Russia01:06:37
has now turned into a vassal or01:06:41
territory that is completely subject to01:06:43
China will come with this now and01:06:46
valuable instructions from Vladimir Putin on how to01:06:49
act in the future this is all no with01:06:52
reality that Beijing has no leverage01:06:57
control over those decisions that01:07:00
are received in the Kremlin01:07:02
Probably if there is something where Moscow01:07:07
really01:07:09
does not depend on China it was still its own01:07:13
China doesn't know foreign policy here01:07:17
how to predict here Putin is not01:07:20
consults this pin on his own01:07:22
next steps here China soon01:07:25
adapts to the conditions that01:07:28
Russia is already creating the fact that it has begun01:07:32
the war in China was not expected and01:07:36
for example, they took their citizens from01:07:38
territory of Ukraine speaks precisely of that01:07:41
What01:07:42
I have a hard time imagining that01:07:45
what's going on in the minds of people who01:07:46
make decisions in the Kremlin and therefore with01:07:50
this point of view to say that01:07:52
Moscow is completely under control for now01:07:54
very very then the next thesis01:07:58
which has often been heard in recent days by Putin01:08:02
sells resources to Russia for pennies per01:08:05
China is much less profitable than it could be01:08:08
selling Europe and this is his way01:08:10
interaction01:08:12
with China how much is it fair or01:08:14
Not fair01:08:16
and this is generally true now in01:08:19
It's not like Russia has a big market in01:08:23
energetically, not so much01:08:25
Great Expert here Probably Sergey01:08:28
Vakulenko will arrange everything much better01:08:32
as it is but as it seems to me01:08:34
Russia's withdrawal from the European market which01:08:37
happened not at her request quite01:08:41
hit hard in principle because01:08:43
feels like the state budget yes01:08:45
And now Russia has practically01:08:49
such zero strength when it comes to01:08:53
price negotiations01:08:55
future projects regarding volume01:08:57
supplies and here China feels01:09:00
really very good because01:09:02
can dictate the rules If you don't want to01:09:05
we have a large number of others01:09:07
countries that will make us happy01:09:09
want to insert all these energy resources01:09:12
then only according to our conditions01:09:14
this is actually01:09:16
not that it's something completely new01:09:19
Russian Chinese relations since 201401:09:22
Russia more and more01:09:24
Let's just say he loses in his meeting room01:09:30
abilities before the Chinese are simple01:09:32
because every time sanctions01:09:35
everyone is becoming01:09:37
and Russia has no left01:09:42
Timur is another thesis that sounds in01:09:45
connection with these meetings, si considers himself01:09:48
an excellent diplomat, he reconciled Iran01:09:52
did not reconcile Saudi Arabia forced01:09:54
there and talk to Iran and Saudi Arabia01:09:56
Arabia and now I am one of those who01:10:00
thinks he can perform01:10:02
mediator between Russia and Ukraine and01:10:05
this visit is also about this01:10:07
how true is this01:10:11
what kind of thing is China going to be like now?01:10:15
go everywhere to make peace and between01:10:18
different countries that are with each other01:10:20
conflict, this is also disconnected from01:10:22
reality I01:10:24
I think between Iran and Saudi01:10:28
Arabia it would be impossible to conclude01:10:30
there would be no peace without these two countries01:10:32
wanted01:10:34
Chinese participants are already here01:10:38
less significant ones are more accurate01:10:41
imagine a situation in which01:10:43
Russia Ukraine is now ready for at least01:10:46
It’s hard for me to agree here01:10:49
no one can seat them at the table01:10:53
negotiations01:10:54
and we're not even talking about China, which01:10:57
this whole year is almost a year01:11:00
nothing has been done in this direction and to me01:11:05
It seems like this is the activation of China01:11:08
to the Ukrainian direction this is exactly this01:11:10
response to criticism that China01:11:12
listened all this year when he01:11:14
they said that you are positioning yourself as01:11:17
such a major world power but with01:11:19
this is when what happens in the world is this you01:11:22
keep quiet Yes because the war is in Ukraine01:11:24
truly the most important event01:11:26
international relations today and when01:11:28
the country is truly positioning itself01:11:31
as a power influencing international01:11:35
order plays a big role in it01:11:37
she can't just sit on the sidelines and01:11:40
actually the Peace Plan which is on01:11:43
there's really no plan01:11:44
official position01:11:46
which many points are not with each other01:11:50
docked and the fact that01:11:53
came to Moscow and there’s nothing new about it01:11:58
didn't say direction01:12:00
all this suggests is that China01:12:02
continues to be a neutral player and not01:12:06
wants to get involved in a war in which01:12:08
he has no priorities01:12:11
Maxim, you've run out of points01:12:17
I just wanted to ask about something else01:12:19
So you can help Yes, one more01:12:22
a point that sounds in connection with01:12:25
this visit What in fact01:12:28
China and Russia are allies01:12:31
yes they may have some01:12:34
different interests but in fact they are the same01:12:37
if only because the world is now divided into01:12:41
democratic states and01:12:42
authoritarian and that's all authoritarian01:12:44
states are now allies with each other01:12:48
this is also a myth01:12:50
there is already a lot about the Union of Russia and China01:12:54
They say01:12:55
especially after the famous01:13:00
joint statement on February 4 immediately01:13:05
before the Olympics proper in Beijing.01:13:08
last year Putin last year01:13:14
no wait01:13:16
February 4, 202201:13:20
Putin came to Beijing and they signed01:13:24
joint statement in which it is written01:13:25
that friendship between Russia and China has no01:13:28
borders everyone began to interpret it01:13:31
Like really the announcement of the Union here01:13:33
now we will see that Moscow will gather and01:13:36
Beijing will oppose the West and so on01:13:40
but in reality all these01:13:44
formulations like Friendship Without Borders01:13:48
What01:13:49
strategic not strategic most01:13:51
the best partnership in the world and so on01:13:53
This all just means that Russia01:13:56
China doesn’t want to declare a Union themselves, they01:14:00
they themselves are afraid to use the word Union in01:14:04
describing your relationship because Union01:14:06
What is a union? It’s when two people have01:14:10
countries There are absolutely no contradictions01:14:14
in their foreign policy when01:14:16
No01:14:18
fears that the other side will act01:14:21
against what is important to you in your01:14:24
foreign policy China understands that01:14:26
an alliance with Russia is being concluded01:14:27
suicidal decision because you01:14:30
you never know what will come to mind01:14:32
people in Moscow in a year01:14:36
or even01:14:39
tomorrow yes And for this you will have to bear01:14:41
some responsibility As an ally01:14:43
as a person, as a country that took over01:14:46
yourself such a chest Yes, that’s why I don’t talk about anything01:14:51
There is no talk of a union. China and Russia do.01:14:56
common points of contact on which01:14:59
they agree. For example, last time01:15:02
decade This is the feeling that the world01:15:06
The order in which the dominant role01:15:08
plays USA he is unfair to01:15:10
to such powers as Russia China Here01:15:13
this is the concert, it unites Russia01:15:17
China but that doesn't mean they're ready01:15:20
declare a union and on almost all01:15:24
issues to act as such a single block01:15:27
that is, you need to create something like01:15:30
there is no question of this, and the states themselves01:15:35
called allies afraid to use01:15:38
your relationship01:15:40
Let's01:15:44
asked01:15:50
because there's nothing like that01:15:53
agreed01:15:58
come to Russia to a person who01:16:02
The international community is literally01:16:15
yes Great question indeed01:16:17
some kind of inconsistency Like you say01:16:19
that you don’t support and everything looks01:16:21
like you're supporting but here we are01:16:24
should look at the history in principle01:16:27
relations between Russia and China and we quickly01:16:31
Let's understand that Russia is always a country01:16:34
which the Chairman of the Chinese01:16:37
People's Republic as its01:16:39
first foreign visit it was like that01:16:41
do replaced so it was with01:16:42
predecessor01:16:44
so it was with young sentin when he01:16:47
just came to power and this is what happens01:16:49
now after this pin01:16:51
re-elected for a third term01:16:54
and here China follows its01:16:57
diplomatic tradition secondly everything01:17:00
concerning01:17:02
Putin's announcements01:17:06
war crimes suspect01:17:08
this is not perceived by China as something01:17:12
what can01:17:15
prevent a personal meeting, sit pina with01:17:18
Putin for several reasons, firstly01:17:21
because China did not sign the Treaty of Rome01:17:25
statute Yes, and also does not consider Putin01:17:30
somehow01:17:33
war criminal yes Or else01:17:35
anyone suspected and secondly01:17:40
for China, in fact, it even played01:17:45
given that Russia has become even more01:17:48
isolated Putin is now completely gone01:17:52
no other alternatives for even01:17:55
to travel somewhere safely01:17:57
it was like such a nice bonus01:18:01
in order to come to Moscow but01:18:05
as for the interpretation of what it is01:18:08
really support Putin in his01:18:10
aggression in Ukraine here China every01:18:15
are crossed from such accusations01:18:17
rolls out its own official01:18:19
position which is black and white01:18:21
it is written that China stands for01:18:24
maintain integrity sovereignty01:18:27
Ukraine01:18:28
before Setin's visit to Moscow there was a call01:18:34
between the foreign ministers of China and01:18:37
Ukraine where they also talked about the fact that01:18:40
they value each other's relationships too01:18:42
maintain this integrity01:18:45
the Ukrainian side thanked for01:18:48
humanitarian goods supplied01:18:49
there that is01:18:53
this is true on the one hand01:18:56
looks like support but China does01:18:58
everything to make it look like nothing at all01:19:03
There is Chinese aid to Ukraine01:19:08
Wow01:19:10
even more01:19:19
They said that it’s just at the ministerial level01:19:22
foreign ministers they talked01:19:24
And I just wanted to ask Maybe01:19:27
President Zelensky was going to get a sinzing01:19:29
I'm thinking of stopping by soon01:19:33
security issues01:19:35
I wouldn’t go to Ukraine now but online01:19:39
summit It is quite possible to imagine01:19:41
there was a leak in the Journal Where are the journalists01:19:46
wrote to an anonymous source in e01:19:48
Chinese guide with this Pin01:19:50
is going to hold the first summit online01:19:53
with Zelensky, the actual invasion first01:19:56
Russia in Ukraine Yes, that's why I think01:19:58
you can quite expect this, it’s like01:20:01
once there will be a demonstration that China is not01:20:04
takes nothing aside to the question of01:20:06
that all this is all the actions of China01:20:09
don't dock01:20:11
It really seems to us that01:20:13
some kind of Chinese strategy01:20:14
directly01:20:16
not consistent01:20:19
also like Take a side for Moscow or01:20:23
Zaki01:20:24
but from China's point of view it looks like01:20:30
really such a classic reaction01:20:32
China to a conflict in which01:20:35
no priority is important to him and01:20:39
maintain good relations here with01:20:41
Moscow and at the same time it is important not01:20:44
look like a country that is completely01:20:45
supports01:20:47
all the catastrophic things that01:20:50
what Putin is doing in Ukraine does this mean01:20:53
there are red lines of China's arms supply01:20:57
or some technologies that are under01:20:59
sanctions01:21:02
and I think there are red lines01:21:06
at least if we judge by01:21:09
official statements that came from01:21:11
from Beijing01:21:14
I will use nuclear01:21:17
weapons in any form Yes, because already01:21:21
there were many statements in which there was one01:21:26
pin and others01:21:28
installed Chinese officials01:21:30
they said that this is the application of Yasny01:21:32
weapons are bad and01:21:36
I think the red line is again support01:21:40
Russia is militarily here now01:21:43
there are many media reports that China is01:21:46
actually supported by the Russians01:21:48
military forces supplies but this01:21:53
not even confirmed01:21:56
American developed community head01:21:59
CIA Bill Burns said we haven't seen it yet01:22:04
real supplies but we know that01:22:06
there are thoughts in the Chinese leadership that01:22:10
suggests that apparently these supplies01:22:12
no in China either, I think they understand that01:22:14
impossible in modern technology01:22:17
transparent world to supply weapons and01:22:20
wherein01:22:21
not to be not to be noticed in this Yes01:22:25
considering that all the eyes are so global01:22:27
are now aimed at this very reason01:22:32
join fit in for Russian01:22:35
China's conflict is not necessary Especially01:22:38
Considering that China is now coming out as if01:22:41
such a main benefit recipient01:22:43
the situation01:22:45
on the one hand he has Russia01:22:48
much weaker much more01:22:50
isolated and ready for more01:22:54
give in than ever before with another01:22:56
On the Chinese side, it turns out that the United States and01:23:01
The US is now quite concentrated01:23:05
in Ukraine support Ukraine01:23:07
are holding back Russia and they simply don’t have01:23:10
resources and time to01:23:11
study in China We remember that in01:23:15
foreign policy of the USA and China in recent times01:23:18
time01:23:19
such cooling is historical Yes and for01:23:22
their relationship with each other is01:23:24
probably the main priority in01:23:28
the future of international relations you are so01:23:32
we talk about China as if it were01:23:33
some kind of Monolith as if it’s not there01:23:36
There are no different opinions In the end01:23:40
some kind of grassroots discontent and01:23:42
some kind of political life we are right01:23:43
So are we talking about China or not?01:23:48
and every year China is becoming more and more01:23:50
more closes01:23:51
if earlier01:23:54
one could imagine Doc's appearance01:23:58
situation in which01:24:00
you can calmly communicate with your01:24:04
friend who studies Russian01:24:07
Russia's research can01:24:09
calmly invite him to dinner at a cafe01:24:12
somewhere and he will come01:24:16
you will discuss as normal01:24:18
some questions but01:24:21
with a view especially but still01:24:26
a little before they started appearing here01:24:30
new trends have become01:24:33
a little dangerous for even experts01:24:37
who do not work in the state01:24:40
Naturally everyone works for NPOs01:24:44
which exist in China01:24:46
somehow must01:24:50
continues the party line and does not speak out01:24:52
highly critical of her but still01:24:54
there was something more or less free01:24:58
yes but with the pandemic it all closed01:25:01
firstly, China closed itself and01:25:04
secondly it became simply impossible01:25:06
invite someone for a cup of tea because01:25:10
what people fear and brings01:25:13
third person who just in case01:25:16
case observes that nothing like that01:25:17
was not said, that is01:25:23
Yes, he just sits sweetly smiling and01:25:26
pretends not to speak others01:25:29
different languages01:25:30
in fact, everyone understands perfectly well01:25:34
So China has closed at all levels01:25:38
practically01:25:39
and that's why it became difficult. Basically01:25:43
see what's going on inside01:25:46
what's happening is jinanhae, it's kind of analogous01:25:48
Kremlin01:25:50
and we don't know if there are different opinions on01:25:54
about what's happening01:25:57
in Ukraine about what is happening01:26:00
relations in relations with Russia with01:26:02
states we don’t know what personnel01:26:04
changes for what reason?01:26:06
are happening01:26:07
The only thing we can grasp is that01:26:10
what is Xi Jinping doing now?01:26:13
unprecedented consolidation of power in01:26:16
in his hands are all the people who enter01:26:19
main decision-making bodies of the bureau01:26:23
constantly his committee Yes, these are people01:26:26
which one way or another throughout the entire01:26:28
their lives were connected with gray hair01:26:30
personally or on duty This is it01:26:36
the only hint that sooner01:26:38
there is a unity of opinion simply because01:26:42
that all these people are loyal01:26:45
[music]01:26:46
to the new Great helmsman yes Or to the core01:26:49
party as they call it01:26:51
in fact, that’s why we can judge that01:26:54
what is there in the manual01:26:56
Unanimous opinion01:26:57
according to the mood in society we can01:27:00
follow via social networks01:27:04
social networks if earlier before the war01:27:07
Russia was mainly presented as such01:27:10
powerful power and Vladimir Putin looked01:27:13
how is such a strong leader who is not01:27:16
afraid to confront the West not afraid01:27:18
is not afraid of sanctions at all01:27:21
always goes on so it even sometimes01:27:24
compared to the soft one with this pin01:27:27
Putin goes through customs and is on horseback01:27:31
topless Yes that's all01:27:33
it was quite popular sometimes even01:27:36
such posts were not blocked01:27:40
expand to such an increase in popularity01:27:43
Vladimir Putin, but first the wars started01:27:45
posts appear that are not at all01:27:47
characteristic01:27:49
how he treats Russia01:27:53
started01:27:55
call the Russian army weak01:28:00
all sorts of memes about the weak goose01:28:04
a very interesting separate topic because01:28:07
that the word Russia begins with hieroglyphs01:28:10
which is consonant with the hieroglyph goose01:28:18
the general idea is what they started01:28:21
there are people who doubt01:28:23
are convinced that Russia is really01:28:24
as strong as she seemed before 401:28:29
February 2201:28:32
in general If we talk about how they live01:28:35
Chinese social networks Chinese Media01:28:37
How strict are the rules of the game?01:28:40
tougher than in Russia or not If simplified01:28:44
much tougher01:28:47
Chinese social networks began to appear01:28:51
years01:28:53
20 ago That is, I remember when I arrived in01:28:56
China for the first time in 2013 then still01:28:59
his Instagram was not blocked there01:29:01
blocked right when I was there01:29:04
that's why I actually remembered it, yes but01:29:08
all this time all these decades01:29:10
Chinese social networks existed in such01:29:12
very comfortable bubble in which they01:29:14
themselves could develop comfortably01:29:16
because everything was prohibited there01:29:19
all international01:29:21
social networks that we are used to Yes, this is family01:29:23
This is meta01:29:26
what else is there besides mint Telegram01:29:31
everything is conditional what we use everything01:29:35
Google's entire family is closed in China01:29:38
Google other than Google translator Google01:29:40
translator works01:29:42
and Chinese social networks actually started01:29:45
capture This market is quite active01:29:48
captured and01:29:50
from analogues01:29:53
social networks from which they have surpassed and01:29:55
become01:29:57
actually a unique phenomenon01:30:00
from whom today he is already learning social networks01:30:03
which we are used to Yes, all these rails01:30:05
endless01:30:06
streams of tape that suit arranged01:30:11
some kind of algorithm with artificial01:30:12
intellect it is all borrowed from01:30:14
China actually01:30:15
so that's why because that because01:30:19
all these social networks01:30:21
they are truly Chinese01:30:25
must01:30:27
be guided by certain01:30:28
rules that come down from01:30:34
actually01:30:36
CPC commission on propaganda and01:30:41
how it usually works If it appears01:30:44
some post01:30:46
about topics that are prohibited, for example about01:30:50
criticism of the authorities Or sometimes it can be01:30:54
something even completely01:30:56
something harmless or something like that01:30:59
scandal surrounding a star or two fan groups01:31:02
two stars fought with each other and01:31:05
started being active on social networks with each other01:31:07
everything can be argued about this01:31:11
anything that could potentially lead to01:31:13
social instability then such01:31:16
posts are determined first01:31:19
the first step is limitation01:31:24
retreats or reposts of these posts so that01:31:28
did not go further restriction comment01:31:30
But if that doesn't work, then move on.01:31:34
start blocking keywords01:31:37
there are scandals surrounding the tennis player01:31:39
who on the wave admitted her too01:31:44
once upon a time someone harassed01:31:46
prohibits the word tennis and there are cases01:31:49
when you type in Chinese internet01:31:51
even a search engine for Chinese words tennis01:31:53
nothing comes of you because he says01:31:55
that there is no such word does not exist01:31:57
exists01:31:59
Until this actually settles down01:32:03
everything becomes blocked naturally01:32:05
All01:32:08
accounts of people who are starting to care01:32:10
block or even delete without leaving01:32:14
absolutely no trace just hits01:32:17
a person from a social network and his whole01:32:22
The trace also disappears while people01:32:26
use VPN01:32:28
people enjoy01:32:31
But mostly it is educated urban01:32:34
young people and they generally understand01:32:38
according to how everything is on this network01:32:41
blocked and They receive information from01:32:43
Western Media01:32:45
Yes there is Western Media big big01:32:50
which01:32:52
there will be articles in Chinese01:32:55
including for people who live outside01:32:58
outside China China has a large diaspora01:33:00
outside its territory therefore01:33:02
Access to01:33:04
he has a lot of information01:33:07
in fact, if you want you can find it01:33:09
Another thing is that VPN is always necessary01:33:13
look for a new one because they regularly01:33:15
run after everyone, block and have to01:33:18
look for a new one Well, that is, such games in01:33:21
back-and-forth between society and the censorship machine01:33:24
How far do you think Russia is moving towards01:33:27
this path and, most importantly, are they capable01:33:30
Russia will go down this path because01:33:32
when have you let the genie out of the bottle?01:33:35
it's harder to push it back01:33:37
Yes absolutely true and here Jin Ne01:33:40
It's just a matter of habit for us. Yes it is01:33:44
technological genie 'cause I'm in it01:33:48
I'll be honest, I don't know how to do it01:33:50
the Internet generally gets into the country but01:33:52
if you listen to smart people on the phone01:33:57
How Yes it works but if01:33:59
listen to many people who understand01:34:01
they say in China01:34:05
State owns all cables01:34:08
which01:34:10
then they actually give it away01:34:12
Internet provider and then through01:34:13
provider01:34:15
reaches end users and01:34:19
In China, everything is state-owned. Therefore, in01:34:20
any moment They can just take and01:34:22
switch off the switch somehow01:34:25
it's possible in Russia it's impossible01:34:27
because01:34:30
there are a lot of cables and they are all controlled01:34:34
The state is the first second like me01:34:37
said in the Chinese the decade was created01:34:40
internal internal software internal01:34:42
applications your social networks yours that is there01:34:45
no YouTube because he even if he01:34:47
now he will not enter China01:34:49
popular there01:34:50
which is much more popular there01:34:53
billions of views and no one really01:34:57
In fact, this YouTube is not needed now01:35:00
somehow in Russia everything is different01:35:03
Where will people watch?01:35:08
It seems to me analogous. That is, it turns out01:35:14
What01:35:17
Russia is trying to create its own01:35:20
analogues succeeded in something the same01:35:22
VKontakte Odnoklassniki probably can01:35:24
replaced Yes there is Facebook or something01:35:27
but there are social networks or video hosting sites01:35:31
like YouTube she can’t create01:35:34
it worked out and back01:35:36
[music]01:35:37
create This is a lot of stress for the system01:35:41
This is a lot of stress for the system Yes because01:35:43
that Russia is already part of the international01:35:47
Internet and China became it at the very beginning01:35:51
when the internet had not yet arrived01:35:53
mobile internet and it was very easy01:35:58
build a system from the very beginning01:36:01
differently01:36:03
from the very beginning Create popularity01:36:05
precisely their own analogues for01:36:08
in order not to end up in a situation01:36:11
which turned out to be01:36:13
Timur I think thank you first of all01:36:16
It’s great that you answered everything for us01:36:19
we need to finish questions about China01:36:20
if I'm not mistaken at least I am01:36:23
I read several of your posts on the topic01:36:26
Kazakhstan if you allow the latter01:36:29
I'll ask you a question about the elections01:36:31
which took place in Kazakhstan How do you01:36:34
rate this Step aside01:36:37
declared democratization or completely01:36:40
No01:36:42
and I think it might look like01:36:46
Step aside01:36:47
democratization and at least to me01:36:49
it seems Astana would really like01:36:51
it looked like a side step01:36:53
democratization but in reality it is not01:36:56
so into reality and01:37:00
parliamentary elections are not really01:37:02
as important as the role is important01:37:05
president01:37:06
about existing laws the president can01:37:10
Everything in Kazakhstan Therefore, for now it is01:37:13
exists I think01:37:15
there is no need to talk about any01:37:18
real democratization Well of course it is01:37:20
it is very important that the elections took place they passed01:37:23
with a lot of01:37:27
independent candidates many activists01:37:30
got the opportunity for the first time01:37:31
running for office seems to develop everything01:37:36
such muscles of the civil community with01:37:40
this side It seems to be useful but01:37:42
you need to talk about it as something01:37:46
actually changed the system01:37:49
authorities in Kazakhstan I think it’s not worth it01:37:51
Thank you very much Timur Once again for coming out01:37:54
contact us01:37:55
and we spent half an hour in China, even more than I01:38:00
I see we went overboard, but not now01:38:02
only Timur switches off01:38:04
not only Timur is disconnected but Irina01:38:07
disconnected because we need to move01:38:09
we will switch to another type of communication now01:38:11
we will talk to Ufa we will talk to01:38:14
Ufa about the case01:38:16
Lily Chanysheva, I understand that we are straight01:38:19
We will literally rebuild along the way01:38:23
I hope that everything will work technically and01:38:25
no technology will let us down until we01:38:28
we have a break I'd love to01:38:30
I remind you that a living nail is01:38:33
lives largely on the fact that you01:38:36
support him with donations and purchases01:38:42
Media this magical sound01:38:44
which I hear I don't know if you can hear01:38:46
Skype call01:38:49
tells me that the connection should be soon01:38:53
get better, I'll remind you that this time01:38:56
this time I will remind you that not only books01:39:00
and there are magazines in shock amateur.media well01:39:03
and music Namely, for example, DDT vinyl01:39:07
Time machine and so on Irina Babloyan01:39:12
asks why did you dump uh her01:39:15
call she's trying to call and I'm01:39:18
I hope that everything will work out for me again01:39:19
uh don’t worry and don’t worry Ira01:39:23
now everything will be like this Well, what do we have?01:39:27
with a guest from Ufa he is also connected or01:39:30
No01:39:31
Not yet, but I’ll say that we are waiting01:39:37
Advokasheva on our air01:39:39
Sergei Makarenko, I will remind you that Lily01:39:44
Chanysheva was already more than 500 days ago01:39:48
detained and charged under article01:39:54
Makarenko is already in touch with us Sergey01:39:57
you hear me01:40:00
Sergey Hello Sergey01:40:05
so we haven't heard from you yet, but I hope01:40:08
what now01:40:09
yes yes I hear Irina01:40:12
I see and hear myself too Sergey01:40:16
I see Makarenko and hope that now01:40:18
I'll hear Sergey can you hear us01:40:24
excellent Sergey Let's talk in a nutshell01:40:27
First, let's remind you what stage we are at now01:40:30
process or bowls What is she accused of?01:40:35
now regarding01:40:39
trial is underway01:40:42
at the stage of judicial investigation she is accused01:40:46
in the management of a structural unit01:40:50
extremist community01:40:52
using01:41:01
And the third is participation01:41:06
and Promotion of activities01:41:18
correct actions That is, all these01:41:21
crimes under the Criminal Code01:41:24
belong to the section of crimes against01:41:28
foundations of the constitutional system and01:41:30
state security That is, she01:41:33
considered a very dangerous state01:41:36
criminal And at what stage now01:41:38
court hearing what now01:41:44
a judicial investigation is underway and01:41:48
evidence for the court01:41:51
accusations that is state01:41:54
prosecutor01:41:58
two01:41:59
state prosecutor one of01:42:02
Moscow another local from the republic01:42:05
Bashkortostan Here they are now representing01:42:07
to the court their evidence as they think01:42:09
accusations, that is, I am disclosing the materials01:42:13
criminal case and represent their01:42:16
witnesses who01:42:20
according to the state prosecution01:42:24
confirm guilt and01:42:29
accomplice in the case01:42:38
a few days ago there was information that01:42:41
one prosecution witness in the case01:42:44
Lily just said that she gave01:42:46
readings under pressure first you01:42:49
can you confirm this or01:42:52
refute If yes then this can somehow01:42:54
influence01:42:57
I can confirm all this I want01:43:01
preface your story with something interesting01:43:03
fact The fact is that we have judicial01:43:05
the meeting is held behind closed doors01:43:09
at the very beginning01:43:10
preliminary01:43:12
hearing of this case At the preliminary01:43:15
meeting judge01:43:20
What01:43:22
apply to the court01:43:25
letter from the local republican01:43:29
combating extremist activities and01:43:32
in this letter the boss said that in01:43:35
trial time possible01:43:37
putting pressure on participants01:43:40
legal proceedings from01:43:44
defendants and their accomplices01:43:49
which means01:43:51
are partially abroad and may01:43:55
via the Internet via other communication channels01:43:58
somehow influence the participants01:44:01
legal process put on them01:44:04
pressure and on this basis01:44:07
judge for security reasons allegedly01:44:12
process participants closed the process01:44:15
and the trial is heard without an audience01:44:20
journalists As they say quietly peacefully01:44:23
here we go01:44:26
Interestingly01:44:29
evidence that really01:44:33
centers for combating extremism are available01:44:36
information that this is possibly terrible01:44:39
putting pressure on participants01:44:42
there was no evidence for the court01:44:46
provided01:44:47
not heard not announced not people not01:44:50
documents at the same time01:44:57
so to speak, in the process of exchanging my last name I am her01:45:01
I will not call She when interrogating her01:45:04
state prosecutors burst into tears01:45:07
burst into tears and told the court that01:45:10
really01:45:12
from the outside01:45:14
employee01:45:16
law enforcement agencies during01:45:18
preliminary investigation was provided01:45:20
pressure01:45:21
she was kidnapped after school01:45:27
employees01:45:29
and they01:45:31
psychological01:45:33
means certain things necessary for the investigation01:45:37
testimony and in general, in principle, to01:45:40
cooperation as01:45:44
the court responded to this01:45:58
before the state prosecutors asked01:46:02
country of protection and01:46:09
released01:46:14
I01:46:16
most likely not at all01:46:19
Sorry, the connection was lost for a while01:46:21
Once again it's in your opinion Maybe01:46:25
affect how the trial will proceed further01:46:29
examine the case to the extent that the court takes it into account01:46:32
readings01:46:39
this is such a thing this is a political matter01:46:46
political criminal prosecution01:46:52
was the head of the structural01:46:55
divisions01:46:58
anti-corruption fund01:47:01
Navalny in Ufa in our region01:47:06
and it’s no secret to our listeners who01:47:11
such Navalny means that01:47:15
in fact the state even01:47:20
without actually mentioning his last name01:47:23
declared him the number one criminal01:47:30
and under the current government01:47:36
Navalny and his supporters will01:47:40
some kind of condescension was shown01:47:43
it’s hard to count on such an attitude01:47:46
If we talk about how again how01:47:49
the process goes quickly, it seems to you01:47:53
will be protracted or vice versa All01:47:55
trying to do it quickly as you said01:47:58
no noise, sewn and covered01:48:02
the process goes very quickly01:48:06
wanted every working day01:48:09
work but due to the fact that we have one01:48:14
defendant zero01:48:17
is a disabled person of the first group and01:48:20
undergoes such a vital procedure01:48:23
like hemodialysis01:48:27
This means that the court initially determined three days01:48:32
work per week for this criminal case01:48:36
business that is Tuesday Wednesday Thursday from01:48:39
morning until evening and01:48:42
state prosecutors expedited01:48:45
materials of the criminal case are announced01:48:53
leafing through 10-15 volumes of criminal01:48:58
things to do a day means just calling01:49:02
the names of the documents are not01:49:07
announcing the contents of these documents01:49:09
they just scroll through and talk about01:49:12
that these are such documents01:49:13
in fact there is and and Further as they say01:49:17
that means head to Europe Well, we're on the side01:49:21
defense is also not interested01:49:23
so that all this means is made public01:49:27
[music]01:49:29
because01:49:32
nothing good for us as they say01:49:34
there01:49:35
Not written01:49:38
moreover, witnesses who01:49:41
they are interrogated at the trial according to my01:49:47
assessment more so to speak op softer01:49:53
testimony towards the defendants than They01:49:56
given at the preliminary investigation01:49:58
directly01:50:01
That is, if let’s say they are there01:50:05
vying with each other As they say01:50:07
talked about what01:50:10
Chanyshev and the Anti-Corruption Foundation and01:50:15
so that Navalny is called and campaigned01:50:18
for the violent overthrow of existing01:50:21
authorities then when we start them01:50:23
interrogate means what it was01:50:28
these actions What words are these01:50:31
witnesses can't do anything01:50:33
say and in the end in the majority01:50:36
they admit that in fact01:50:39
no calls for violence01:50:41
actions not mulyuk nechayanisheva not uh01:50:46
announced and nothing like that happened, that is01:50:49
from their testimony they actually01:50:52
Sergey Tell me how you feel01:50:54
Liliya Chanysheva now01:50:56
How does she evaluate this process?01:51:00
what is his mood after all?01:51:07
evaluates01:51:10
really01:51:13
criminal trial with political01:51:15
motivation that is illegal01:51:19
criminal prosecution for political reasons01:51:22
motives here01:51:24
the defense also believes that everything is what it wants01:51:29
changes that is01:51:34
criticism of the power of roller making01:51:40
aimed at fighting corruption01:51:51
And when do they exist?01:51:56
we rate it as normal normal01:52:00
classical political activity01:52:03
and on the other hand the prosecution01:52:07
all this01:52:10
rates it as a crime01:52:14
crime against fundamentals01:52:15
constitutional order and security01:52:17
states01:52:19
that is, in principle, I will give an example01:52:24
can you give an example Yes of course yes01:52:29
Here01:52:42
authorities and in the indictment01:52:50
hatred and enmity01:52:54
normal demands for a change of power as01:52:57
this is written in the Russian Constitution01:53:00
Federation that our government should01:53:02
be replaced on free and regular01:53:06
elections means it's called names in01:53:11
investigative documents and documents01:53:16
accusations as calls for violence01:53:21
Although01:53:31
let's say exits01:53:34
no unsanctioned rallies01:53:37
There were no such terrible calls. Well,01:53:40
as far as I know in these elections01:53:42
that is, there are no cars at these rallies01:53:47
mutilated01:53:48
shops didn’t break glycerin didn’t drink01:53:53
and such With such a massive exit in01:53:58
January to April01:54:00
202101:54:03
no serious ones means there were more01:54:06
there are some isolated cases of snowballs there01:54:10
rushed here01:54:14
when hundreds of thousands of people come out01:54:20
really somehow minimally violate01:54:23
bully I think it's like01:54:27
says costs01:54:29
unfortunately we don't have much of a process01:54:31
good communication Sergey in general it is clear Yes01:54:34
what did you say last phrases K01:54:36
unfortunately interrupted and probably01:54:38
let's let go yes we we sat further on our own01:54:41
Thank you very much for getting in touch I01:54:43
I hope next time Yes we have01:54:48
I'll be able to talk to you again but01:54:50
at the same time will not let us down like this01:54:53
communication in any case in any case01:54:56
let's try to summarize01:54:59
that, by and large, Lily Chanyshev01:55:03
are being tried for that political activity01:55:07
which brought into the headquarters structures01:55:10
Navalny for the fact that she, in principle,01:55:12
she said that elections are needed, that the government01:55:15
should change in the elections for what she01:55:18
called at the rally And these rallies01:55:21
the authorities accordingly did not approve01:55:25
I think you can reconnect too01:55:27
I'll tell our listeners that Lily01:55:32
I have known Chanyshev for many years. Personally, I can01:55:37
say that I met her in Ufa01:55:41
probably sixteen or01:55:43
seventeenth01:55:44
[music]01:55:45
In general, I’m happy for a long time and I can say that01:55:49
Liliya Chanysheva is firstly a lawyer and secondly01:55:53
the man, who01:55:54
so committed to the law so01:55:58
committed01:56:00
legality01:56:02
always like that01:56:05
emphasized the peaceful nature of his struggle01:56:09
I always tried so hard01:56:12
participate in elections legally01:56:15
by registering and so on01:56:16
she's so01:56:19
a strong leader so bright01:56:22
political figure that I am honest01:56:27
I admit, I probably can’t01:56:29
Navalny's structures so separately01:56:31
she really knew how to highlight01:56:35
talking to people she made of01:56:40
Navalny's headquarters in Ufa is the place where01:56:43
different people came, completely different01:56:46
views for help for legal01:56:49
help for legal advice AND01:56:52
as soon as the anti-corruption fund was01:56:55
recognized01:56:57
extremist organization, again according to01:57:00
all formal features01:57:02
Liliya Chanysheva also did everything01:57:04
accordingly they closed it01:57:06
division she stopped working in01:57:09
this fund because I complied with the law01:57:12
What is the Russian doing now?01:57:14
the state leaked it to Chanysheva01:57:16
it's absolute chaos01:57:19
absolutely in my opinion a crime and01:57:24
I really want to believe that01:57:29
This system01:57:31
maybe it will falter at least this time01:57:33
because it’s still separate for me01:57:37
I can honestly say this is worth it01:57:39
it's not just because I know Lily A01:57:42
also because they are so monstrous01:57:45
charges with such monstrous sentences01:57:48
who face these charges01:57:49
are presented to a person knowingly all this01:57:52
the authorities know01:57:54
Bashkortostan investigators know this01:57:57
the authorities know this, the center knows this under the Ministry of Internal Affairs01:58:01
And he also knows this01:58:05
Roskomnadzor which reports01:58:08
got into public access and we have them01:58:10
there is and I will definitely uh separately01:58:13
I will publish a post about this01:58:15
so they all know that it’s nothing01:58:18
similar to what Lilya is accused of, she is not01:58:21
did everyone know perfectly well that she01:58:25
acted within the law and that01:58:27
Now01:58:28
she is charged with this of course Absolutely01:58:31
chaos amid the war in Ukraine01:58:34
it seems like, well, what kind of this one is it?01:58:38
what chaos this government is ready to go to01:58:40
for the sake of retention, but I’ll say it again I will01:58:43
I really hope this thing ends01:58:46
otherwise or or01:58:49
this sentence will only make things worse01:58:52
in fact the system yesterday about this01:58:55
lately We have spoken quite01:58:57
in detail and we definitely I think this01:59:02
a piece of ether this is a piece of ether about this01:59:05
said we will publish it on our website Echo FM01:59:08
period, for my part I urge everyone01:59:12
who somehow enters orbit01:59:16
influence of Alexei Navalny01:59:19
talk more about Lily Chanysheva Yes she is01:59:22
was not a Moscow figure Yes she is01:59:25
worked in the region but her process is now01:59:29
in my opinion, no less important than the process01:59:31
Ilya Yashin for example or Vladimir's trial01:59:35
feeders for whom we are also very strong01:59:37
we are experiencing01:59:38
and which were also illegal01:59:42
convicted placed in prison I want01:59:46
ask Vasily if Ira will return to us01:59:49
if he returns How not yet01:59:53
returned yes but immediately after her01:59:55
she will come back and read the news and then01:59:59
news she We will greet02:00:03
questions on air from Mikhail Khodorkovsky02:00:06
which we will also spy on02:00:08
be sure to write in the chat Don’t forget02:00:10
like because the more02:00:12
likes the better plus everything02:00:15
I welcome you to subscribe to our02:00:17
telegram groups02:00:19
Echo FM there is everything that is directly from the site02:00:23
on the website is published directly in02:00:25
this game hits you will be able to follow02:00:29
site without missing anything of course02:00:30
there are such links that even without VPN02:00:33
you could go in and read everything plus02:00:36
to everything We have a group Echo News there02:00:39
all the most important news and stories02:00:41
Be sure to subscribe to Echo News02:00:45
telegram Well, don’t forget about02:00:46
Echo app now I'll try like this02:00:50
do this here is the echo application in which02:00:53
I'm sure many people are listening to us now02:00:55
and accordingly If you have not yet02:00:58
installed the application then install it02:00:59
Ira is sure to come back and I’m glad she02:01:04
welcome let's listen to the news in02:01:06
performance by Ira and move on02:01:12
ready02:01:14
[music]02:01:22
[applause]02:01:24
[music]02:01:28
USA They see signs that Russia02:01:30
preparing to use nuclear weapons02:01:33
Ukraine and do not consider it necessary to bring02:01:34
increased own nuclear forces02:01:36
the Pentagon declared combat readiness and02:01:39
State Department previously Vladimir Putin02:01:41
announced plans to deploy tactical02:01:43
nuclear weapons on the territory of Belarus02:01:45
Putin also claimed that at the end of 202302:01:48
Russia will produce more than one and a half years02:01:51
thousands of tanks according to American02:01:53
experts, the Kremlin is exaggerating02:01:55
opportunity for military-industrial complex enterprises is the only one02:01:58
tank manufacturer Ural Corral02:02:00
Uralvagonzavod produces only 20 tanks02:02:02
per month according to the Ministry of Defense02:02:05
Ukraine in the last 24 hours has seen five peaceful02:02:08
residents died as a result of Russian02:02:10
another 25 people received shelling02:02:13
injured 63 objects damaged02:02:15
infrastructure02:02:17
the investigative committee opened a criminal case02:02:19
the case of so-called military fakes02:02:21
against the famous economist Konstantin02:02:23
Sonina reports Russia reports02:02:27
Russian news agency citing02:02:29
informed sources on some02:02:31
this reason was three posts in02:02:33
telegram channel solin professor02:02:35
University of Chicago He lives in the USA02:02:37
According to the Telegraph newspaper, the European Union may02:02:40
impose trade restrictions against countries02:02:42
which help Russia circumvent sanctions02:02:45
We are talking about the United Arab02:02:47
Emirates of Turkey and Central countries02:02:49
Asia previously learned that Kazakhstan02:02:52
may limit parallel imports into02:02:54
Russia, while Kazakhstan, together with02:02:56
Russia is part of the Eurasian02:02:58
economic union within which02:03:00
goods are transported without customs clearance02:03:02
control02:03:03
Germany plans to expel more than 3002:03:06
Russian diplomats are confirmed by the publication02:03:08
Focus according to Berlin these diplomats02:03:10
were searching for informants in the field02:03:13
policy of economics of science and military02:03:15
forces, in turn, are a source in the Russian02:03:18
The Foreign Ministry accused the authorities in Germany of being a spy02:03:20
Maya and promised tough retaliation02:03:24
producer Joseph Prigozhin called02:03:26
fake published recording of him02:03:28
conversation02:03:30
presumably with Farkhan Akhmedov02:03:32
billionaire and former voting senator02:03:35
criticized in harsh terms on the recording02:03:37
Russian power according to Prigozhin02:03:39
Modern neural network technologies02:03:41
allow you to fake not only your voice but also02:03:44
conversation publicly and Prigozhin and Akhmedov02:03:47
support the Kremlin and are brought to02:03:49
various sanctions lists02:03:51
Russian freestyler world champion 202102:03:55
of the year in ski acrobatics in team02:03:57
competitions Pavel Krotov died in02:03:59
age 30 reported by the Federation02:04:01
Freestyle cause of death is not stated02:04:03
Krotov has played for the Russian national team since 201102:04:07
participated in the Olympics in Sochi and02:04:09
Khimki residents02:04:12
Honduras diplomatic relations with02:04:15
Beijing declared what Taiwan thinks02:04:17
Honduras was an integral part of China02:04:19
one of 14 countries that officially recognize02:04:21
Taiwan Foreign Minister of Taiwan02:04:23
Joseph argued that for the sake of conservation02:04:26
relations Honduras demanded from Taib 2.502:04:30
billion dollars as economic02:04:32
British refused aid to Taiwan02:04:35
actor Orlando arrived in Ukraine in02:04:38
as a goodwill ambassador he dedicated02:04:39
one of the centers where I met with02:04:42
Ukrainian children are forced to leave02:04:44
their homes due to fighting02:04:47
[music]02:04:50
Thank you Irina, I’ll remind you that we are waiting B02:04:55
our broadcast of Mikhail Khodorkovsky02:04:56
which should connect in minutes02:04:58
minutes yes yes And before that I can say02:05:00
what's next after our broadcast Boris02:05:03
Grebenshchikov yes yes balloon program02:05:05
Boris Grebenshchikov is absolutely accurate, but02:05:08
after Boris Grebenshchikov and before mine02:05:10
program you can watch02:05:12
Citizen poet who posted on live02:05:15
city02:05:17
my friend Artur Smolyaninov02:05:21
So urgently the area you yourself understand about02:05:25
what was this video you can do it02:05:27
look at them and you can always find it02:05:35
but I salute Mikhail Khodorkovsky02:05:37
Hello Mikhail Borisovich02:05:38
Hello02:05:41
before you spoke with a lawyer02:05:43
Lily Chanysheva, who is now on trial02:05:45
which faces a double-digit sentence I wanted02:05:47
ask you02:05:48
there were also regional leaders02:05:51
who were investigated02:05:53
were subjected to terrible pressure Tell me02:05:57
how in general02:05:58
these regional structures worked02:06:01
large opposition organizations02:06:04
is this possible in Russia today and how?02:06:08
maybe help02:06:09
[music]02:06:14
when I left prison in02:06:18
at the end of 13 I generally had02:06:22
the feeling that the country is somehow beginning02:06:24
move back towards democratization02:06:27
Well, at the beginning of 14 it already became clear that in02:06:31
in general this is not true02:06:32
to my deepest regret, nevertheless02:06:36
somewhere until the age of 16-1802:06:41
regional organizations could work02:06:43
without much risk and we even launched02:06:47
such a program02:06:50
youth electoral program02:06:53
which was supposed to help young people02:06:56
try yourself in the sixteenth year02:06:59
elections was clear already at that moment02:07:00
that no elections can be won with this02:07:04
mode is impossible but in any case02:07:07
people could02:07:09
feel like participants at least02:07:12
Then the situation began to spiral02:07:15
twist and at some point it began02:07:19
it is clear that people will be imprisoned02:07:22
we do this to people in our organization in02:07:26
people told open Russia directly02:07:28
we tried for a while02:07:32
maneuver in the regions it was02:07:34
easier than at the federal level, but how02:07:37
It’s easier to say, you know, it depends on the region02:07:40
some great protection in large02:07:43
cities exchange for more attention02:07:45
in big cities it's like this02:07:48
dualistic situation but then I did02:07:52
Anastasia Chernysheva for ours for ours02:07:56
teams02:07:57
these are already tough ones started02:07:59
persecution when I told people that02:08:01
Guys02:08:02
if you work in Russia now, then only02:08:05
in the underground This is a completely different profile02:08:08
and another completely different model02:08:11
work in open space02:08:13
possible to the extent that the authorities02:08:16
allows, well, I see, she allows not02:08:20
I just wouldn't want to in this case02:08:22
delve into these conspiracy theories02:08:25
theories that power allows you to work02:08:26
with this agent there are no from different02:08:31
considerations02:08:33
sometimes they give someone an opportunity02:08:36
exist in this public02:08:38
space or in order to02:08:40
at some point reveal the conspiracy when02:08:43
this will be necessary either in order to02:08:45
to spoil one of your own02:08:47
bureaucratic competitors Well and so02:08:50
Further02:08:51
Now the situation has become very02:08:54
dangerous because a person who02:08:58
is now taking part in the opposition02:09:01
politics does not matter open or underground02:09:04
he must understand that if desired and02:09:08
based on the practice that has developed over time02:09:12
will start from 8 years old02:09:15
I'm not ready for this situation02:09:20
encourage people to exercise02:09:23
open public policy in Russia02:09:26
because the gain from this02:09:29
insignificant in current conditions But02:09:33
the risks are huge02:09:35
remember Mikhail Borisovich always02:09:36
said the main weapon here is publicity02:09:39
attention to some process the more02:09:41
attention, the greater the chance that somehow02:09:43
this will help today this works02:09:46
to a lesser extent to a lesser extent02:09:49
Why was publicity needed and what was it02:09:54
actually gave02:09:56
any02:09:58
authoritarian power02:10:00
understands latently But if there is no02:10:02
complete idiots are sitting here in deep02:10:04
unfortunately incomplete case sit that02:10:08
tactics for saving repression It allows02:10:11
hold out longer02:10:13
and so this is the build-up02:10:16
repression from relatively speaking oh02:10:21
lack of career prospects and02:10:26
executions it stretches on02:10:29
decade and the authorities naturally in this02:10:31
doesn't really want the situation When it happens02:10:34
escalation02:10:36
and accordingly this is savings02:10:39
repression it doesn't work this is the first02:10:42
history is almost gone now02:10:45
because it is clear that the level of escalation02:10:50
repression02:10:51
very close to the limit of one and a half steps02:10:56
left02:10:58
A02:10:59
the second story was because any02:11:02
she is the power02:11:04
wants to look more or less decent for02:11:08
outside the country02:11:10
it absolutely has02:11:12
it has such pragmatic stories02:11:17
ambitious stories Well on the one hand02:11:19
It's nice, of course, when you are greeted like02:11:22
respected man they spit at02:11:25
your appearance Well, that's how it is02:11:28
semi-important story Although also important02:11:31
Especially for Russia since the projection02:11:35
Western perception and foreign02:11:38
perceptions of Russian society02:11:40
important to our leaders02:11:43
the second story is that02:11:46
many societies especially in the west they02:11:49
different types of companies start when02:11:52
they see that in some other country02:11:55
there is absolute cannibalism and02:11:57
That's why02:11:58
there may be problems with importing goods02:12:02
there may be problems with the export of goods02:12:05
there may be problems with the operation of different02:12:08
diplomatic and near diplomatic02:12:10
services in general no one wants this and02:12:13
they really want to say that02:12:15
doesn't look like cannibals02:12:18
Therefore, this is the publicity she has in her02:12:22
time very serious attention influence02:12:25
it turned out now, of course, in conditions02:12:27
wars in Ukraine, well, you understand that02:12:29
you can't tell whoever removed the head from the voices02:12:31
cries although there is a certain nuance the power does not02:12:35
wants to look02:12:36
full Middle Ages we are therefore publicized02:12:39
related to torture02:12:43
inhumane conditions of detention02:12:46
this publicity helps people survive in02:12:51
prison conditions and this We of course must02:12:56
engage in attracting people's attention to02:12:58
because everything else happens in02:13:02
regions there are still some nuances such02:13:05
peculiar it is connected with the fact that if02:13:08
something is going on out of control02:13:11
federal center what is called02:13:14
in the subcortex of regional bosses02:13:17
there is some concern that if02:13:21
Suddenly there will be publicity. [ __ ] it02:13:24
knows how they will decide there in Moscow maybe02:13:27
maybe they’ll say well done, or maybe they’ll say good job02:13:29
turned away That's why they're like this02:13:32
regional processes they are sometimes02:13:36
arrival of Moscow lawyers upon arrival02:13:40
St. Petersburg lawyers they started it02:13:43
happen a little more decently and we02:13:46
to be honest we use this02:13:50
they said about any opposition and how02:13:54
no matter what, there is an official position in02:13:57
Russia this batch of apples for example and02:13:58
people who really carry on02:14:00
feel free to speak out probably again02:14:03
I’ll cite Vishnevsky as an example once again02:14:05
Schlosberg and so on and to them too02:14:08
works02:14:09
formula that says yes of course then02:14:13
yes if the apple lot exists02:14:16
So someone needs this, I don’t have it02:14:18
view of the apple party members02:14:21
Here's what it might be for02:14:26
There may be a variety of options here02:14:28
Once again I don't want anyone under any circumstances02:14:31
Now02:14:32
conspiratorially accuse someone of something02:14:34
condemn but there are simply some things like02:14:37
would be inherently inherent in one or another02:14:40
socio-political movement here02:14:41
there is a certain party toothless apple let02:14:44
Well, that's what it is, so to speak02:14:46
pensioner around her if she02:14:49
left alone in public02:14:52
liberal democratic opposition02:14:54
the field begins to more or less gather02:14:57
remaining liberal democrats02:15:00
the forces that take place are theirs02:15:02
for example, in such a situation it is easier02:15:04
control it is clear that they are everywhere02:15:06
are needed But for example in St. Petersburg02:15:08
not to see if anyone showed up02:15:11
new and greyhound This is necessary for power02:15:14
because what if in an acute situation02:15:16
someone will come up It's better now somehow02:15:18
they call it prevent02:15:21
this is one of the options but02:15:24
there are other options02:15:26
finally there are simply such things that02:15:29
some runaway02:15:32
I think these guys can be used02:15:35
against there in his bureaucratic02:15:38
confrontation with Prigozhin or so02:15:41
say Why do these old people give up02:15:48
people like Shlosberg Vishnevsky02:15:52
rather evoke sympathy of respect02:15:59
I would say without any doubt02:16:03
respect, of course I respect you02:16:07
and to Schlosberg and to Vishnevsky02:16:11
of course sympathy because I know a lot02:16:17
good things they have done in their lives and02:16:21
that they continue there as best they can02:16:23
defend your views02:16:26
humanly very nice at the same time02:16:30
I can't say what02:16:31
I consider them a significant factor02:16:35
public life02:16:37
I can't say that I would be in their place02:16:40
did the same thing I'm not sure about that02:16:44
we're not sure not because02:16:48
there is some kind of uncertainty in general and therefore02:16:51
that but I don’t fully understand02:16:53
imagine the political situation that02:16:55
exists in the Pskov region02:16:57
Well, yes, these are nice people in their own way02:17:01
Yes02:17:03
I02:17:05
[music]02:17:06
I look with some concern for them02:17:09
fate because I understand that they02:17:11
walk on a thin tightrope and02:17:15
tomorrow for exactly the same reasons02:17:17
which I told someone before maybe02:17:19
seems appropriate to send them02:17:22
there for 8-10 years in prison02:17:25
[music]02:17:29
You know I wanted I thought we were in02:17:32
at the end let's talk about the opposition because02:17:34
we've already started talking and02:17:38
the apples even had time to talk so I02:17:41
I’ll probably continue for a year and a month now02:17:46
has passed since the war went on Why02:17:50
Why doesn't war become a catalyst?02:17:54
for God forgive me for uniting the opposition02:17:57
abroad why how does this happen02:18:00
This is what I always answer to such questions02:18:04
I look with a certain humor when you02:18:09
say why doesn't it happen02:18:12
unification of the opposition02:18:14
This02:18:17
look there is for example there is02:18:20
separately Maxim Kats is Kasparov is02:18:23
you have a fbk who is not with anyone at all02:18:27
want to do business02:18:28
there are some separately there is Dmitry02:18:31
beeps but for some reason02:18:33
What would you like, relatively speaking?02:18:36
was Gudkova Katsa02:18:41
Khodorkovskorov Well, that is, as you want02:18:44
so that we can be combined in one picture02:18:46
or do you want, for example, to start beeping02:18:49
the boss who speaks there02:18:53
Kasparov seems to me what to do Well02:18:56
I probably think that some kind is needed there02:18:58
boss02:19:05
Here you go02:19:06
look, it was the anniversary of the war02:19:11
there were active anti-war protests02:19:16
worldwide including in 50 cities around the world02:19:20
these military demonstrations took place02:19:23
which were needed in order to02:19:25
show02:19:27
world that in fact the war is not in02:19:32
interests of Russians interests of the ruling02:19:35
clicks everyone you were talking about everyone02:19:39
supported these speeches02:19:43
this is what allowed them to become so02:19:47
massive if one of our friends02:19:52
goes to jail02:19:55
or has been in prison for a long time02:19:58
Alexei Navalny is there or am I Andrey02:20:01
Brewers and so on the same Lilia02:20:04
cup We all do it to the best of our ability Well02:20:08
some have only opportunities, some have02:20:10
other opportunities we all help them02:20:13
we all talk about them, we try to do02:20:16
that that that that we can anyway02:20:19
so that they sound02:20:21
socio-political clearing from the point02:20:23
vision of the future Yes we have02:20:28
today is more or less02:20:31
it worked out even with no one02:20:34
the cooperating guys from fbk developed02:20:38
general idea of leading the future02:20:42
that is02:20:43
Democratic parliamentary02:20:47
federalized Russia02:20:49
This was a big promotion when02:20:53
we have reached a consensus on this issue02:20:57
And so on. That is, of course they arise02:21:00
some conflicts like the one that happened02:21:03
There are letters around in support of Friedman02:21:06
or02:21:08
situation with02:21:10
Alexey Venediktov Well, you understand everything02:21:14
people all have their own individual views02:21:17
for some reason it’s still quite private02:21:21
issues02:21:22
but nevertheless we are trying these02:21:26
remove all emotions and act together02:21:29
This is the last time I took part in02:21:33
that's enough02:21:35
representatives02:21:37
event where02:21:40
And we02:21:42
and Well, I am represented by the anti-war committee from02:21:47
faces of the Anti-War Committee and Harry02:21:49
Kasparov and Dmitry Gudkov and02:21:54
Guria, by the way, received on behalf of FBK02:21:58
participation in a meeting in a meeting with02:22:02
President of the Parliamentary Assembly02:22:04
Europe Well, with the leaders of the largest02:22:08
European parties represented in02:22:12
parliamentary assembly02:22:14
it's two o'clock02:22:17
there was a conversation and they couldn't stand it anymore02:22:22
during the entire conversation I did not see02:22:26
our side02:22:27
from the Russian opposition of some kind02:22:32
conflicts or misunderstandings among themselves02:22:34
we spoke with one voice so when02:22:37
They tell me you will unite, I won’t02:22:39
why haven't we united yet? I don't02:22:42
I understand what I'm talking about02:22:47
always to conflicts like these with02:22:50
parties even have the same conflict02:22:52
fbk They think that Well, well, like them02:22:55
They can’t even agree with each other02:22:56
how can we somehow listen there?02:22:59
there that is, to whom do we owe02:23:01
we must listen to this02:23:02
we must listen to this02:23:04
listen, no, I don’t know02:23:06
just one02:23:08
regulations or what to do02:23:11
general to broadcast to people but I don't02:23:14
I know you understand what I mean or not02:23:17
I’ll be honest, I don’t understand what you mean02:23:20
mean if you mean that uh between02:23:23
people, completely different people02:23:27
even between you and Maxim E should not02:23:31
no conflicts arise and02:23:34
misunderstandings then02:23:37
This02:23:39
a bit complicated02:23:41
even you sometimes don’t care about each other on air02:23:45
you understand02:23:47
yeah that's normal it's normal02:23:50
arguing is normal02:23:53
and this is moving the side Yes02:23:57
I think that's normal, of course that's it02:24:00
there is this this Okay now let's talk alone02:24:04
in a voice, well, how do you imagine it?02:24:07
how should the opposition come out02:24:09
Khodorkovsky says you know I am today02:24:11
I will speak on behalf of FBK02:24:14
Guys, they immediately ask me, what about FBK?02:24:18
their tongue was cut out or something else02:24:20
why shouldn't they speak up for themselves?02:24:23
themselves02:24:24
or FBK will come out and say And I will speak02:24:27
on behalf of Khodorkovsky Well, by the way B02:24:30
in some cases if if02:24:33
relatively speaking02:24:35
I don’t know who is there, I don’t know who will go02:24:40
somewhere in the United States and02:24:42
he needs to perform somewhere02:24:44
will speak on behalf of the Russian02:24:46
opposition02:24:47
I will be asked if I can on your behalf02:24:50
there to say something I will say But if these02:24:54
the position suits me, why not?02:24:57
questions are normal What do you think02:25:01
should there be some kind of platform02:25:03
which everyone recognizes Where they will be02:25:06
develop some positions on02:25:09
about types of protest in Russia and02:25:12
recommendations Yes, just one02:25:14
advocacy02:25:16
interests of Russians in European02:25:19
structures and so on and so on It is necessary02:25:22
is there some kind of platform where they can02:25:25
elections be held or something02:25:27
in this spirit or just everyone will come and02:25:29
they will agree and there they will be inside first02:25:32
resolve some controversial issues02:25:35
express to each other on this platform02:25:39
not agreement but to develop a common02:25:42
position02:25:44
and yes and no yes because sometimes02:25:49
questions arise like this type of problem02:25:52
sanctions that need to be discussed02:25:54
in more detail and in a wider range02:25:57
than usual and that's why I suggested02:26:00
colleagues are at the same level as possible02:26:04
representatives to at least gather in02:26:06
Berlin at the end of April as part of02:26:09
human rights conference named after02:26:12
Schmidt and these specific problems02:26:16
which arose02:26:17
discuss them among themselves02:26:20
no because quantity02:26:23
the largest players Well, that is02:26:26
such notable players it is extremely02:26:29
limited for today Here we are02:26:32
you, I don’t know if a second one will be needed02:26:34
hand to list them all02:26:37
we all know each other We all have02:26:40
there are telephones and02:26:43
[music]02:26:46
Zoom which I adore so to speak is not02:26:50
advertising I love him02:26:52
Since the days of Kavet, Zoom gives02:26:56
a wonderful opportunity to meet and02:26:59
enough to talk about any issue02:27:01
fast02:27:03
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that02:27:06
maybe not so not so noticeable02:27:09
public organization as02:27:12
Russian Action Committee02:27:14
exists within the framework of this Russian02:27:17
action committee represented02:27:21
almost everything02:27:24
major players02:27:26
And02:27:29
practically That's not all But I hope that02:27:31
over time everyone will be represented in02:27:34
at least for us02:27:38
[music]02:27:39
Let's not talk to FBK with the group02:27:43
people who support Navalny02:27:45
there or with Navalny’s team this is it02:27:48
this site is quite a place for02:27:51
to discuss some issues, that is02:27:55
we can't say that it doesn't exist at all02:27:58
another thing is that a huge thing has been created02:28:01
quantity today02:28:05
small but influential02:28:09
regional regional around the world02:28:12
anti-war movements With them it is necessary02:28:14
to establish cooperation for this we02:28:17
We offer such opportunities as02:28:20
conferences we are these conferences02:28:22
We spend quite regularly with us02:28:25
they ask why02:28:26
hold these conferences02:28:28
what can you decide on them? You can on02:28:31
them war against Putin or build I don’t know02:28:36
aircraft carrier No we can’t what we can02:28:39
to do as part of this conference02:28:40
look into each other's eyes and have02:28:43
opportunity to talk like this later02:28:45
You already know Zuma, you talk to someone and02:28:48
agree if any problems arise02:28:50
disagreements I want to say again02:28:54
there are two problems with this issue the first02:28:59
The problem, in my opinion, cannot be solved02:29:02
which I02:29:04
I reject with all my Israeli strength02:29:08
souls are the problem of the good king here02:29:11
Unfortunately, the mentality of Russians is not02:29:15
only Russians but always Russians too02:29:19
I want to mix02:29:21
opposition to very much02:29:23
dichotomous here there is one02:29:26
government representative Mr. Putin A02:29:29
where is here now one and indivisible02:29:31
representatives of the position, if not Putin then02:29:33
Who02:29:35
Why am I the fiercest opponent of this02:29:39
approach for a very clear reason02:29:42
change of face in such a situation02:29:47
Nothing will change between Putin and not Putin02:29:51
That is, it will be exactly the same02:29:53
authoritarian model02:29:55
and here it does not depend on the person himself02:29:58
Boris Nikolaevich learned from pre-revolutionary02:30:01
times He was very democratic02:30:04
man, but those who are lining up behind you02:30:07
they see in you a king and in you a king and you02:30:11
like it or not, when you come to power you have to02:30:13
play this role or you will lose02:30:15
support If you lose all support02:30:17
you will lose everything. Why then all this?02:30:21
was therefore this is the dictomy I02:30:25
I deny it all at once02:30:28
The book How to Slay a Dragon is dedicated to02:30:30
This is exactly why you can’t do this Although02:30:34
it's normal and good02:30:37
the wide part of the second second situation is02:30:41
when we get to practical things A02:30:43
How do you actually coordinate?02:30:46
Fine02:30:47
We don’t have this problem. But no.02:30:51
good not publicly not very good yes02:30:55
Conflicts are visible from the outside because02:30:59
as media specialists you02:31:02
you know if there is no conflict no one02:31:05
looks therefore comes there02:31:07
some02:31:08
Damarsky to meet me with02:31:12
shepherd and says so where are we02:31:14
today we'll fight02:31:16
It seems like we have a common opinion on issues No02:31:19
this is impossible because then you can’t look02:31:23
Let's where are we all today02:31:25
the tricks you give02:31:28
let me clarify a few questions you02:31:32
they said that one finger is enough for you02:31:34
hands to list the main players02:31:36
But on this opposition field, who are they?02:31:39
players02:31:44
I said I'm not sure if it's enough but02:31:47
Let's try to list02:31:52
of course so is the group that02:31:56
my team is Alexei Navalny's team02:31:59
teams02:32:01
[music]02:32:11
[music]02:32:16
whether there is a beep or not, well, we are with a beep02:32:20
We cooperate quite closely02:32:23
That is, you write it down in yourself02:32:25
command or or he separately02:32:29
such an interesting question but yes rather02:32:31
most likely today he02:32:34
is part of our team02:32:45
no matter how we treat him, but he has02:32:48
so to speak there is a certain group02:32:51
radically minded guys who02:32:54
cooperate with him and in general02:33:00
it's possible that they will work out some kind of02:33:03
Mikhail Svetov also has a program, but I don’t02:33:06
I know how much he02:33:09
is actively in the operating room02:33:11
topic And in general it’s hard for me02:33:13
imagine how big the group is02:33:15
support Because that’s how it is in principle02:33:22
There are quite a few libertarians, especially among02:33:25
youth but do they really think02:33:27
my bright leader tell me02:33:30
it's difficult because02:33:32
libertarians and leadership It's such a thing02:33:35
[music]02:33:38
that's what Irina asks if someone02:33:41
in Russia with whom are you ready one way or another02:33:45
interact or interact02:33:46
Listen, I'm in Russia, I'm ready02:33:49
interact with02:33:51
Alexey Navalny with Ilya Yashin with02:33:55
Andrey Pivorovov with02:33:59
I can also call him Roizman, so to speak02:34:01
a number of people, unfortunately, they are all in02:34:04
prison because well, or on the threshold02:34:07
prisons02:34:09
because, uh, the authorities won’t tolerate it02:34:14
No one who would be in the open02:34:17
clearing and at the same time would be truly02:34:22
the influencer just comes to light02:34:25
truly an influential person02:34:28
the site copes in places not so well02:34:30
remote02:34:32
they said about Navalny's team and FBK in02:34:37
some moment even some02:34:39
so that the border is marked first02:34:41
wanted to tell BC And then quickly02:34:43
Navalny's supporters are there for you02:34:44
there is some difference in both the bull and the team02:34:47
Listen to Navalny Well, I’m here a little02:34:49
I get inside their politics like they do02:34:55
interact you somehow separate them02:34:57
yes, that's what I'm talking about a little bit02:35:00
I'm climbing so I can only talk02:35:02
about your perception not about how it is on02:35:05
in fact, this is how I perceive it02:35:08
I perceive the organization like no one else02:35:11
which is investigating02:35:13
I have one on my team02:35:16
the organization is called the center there02:35:18
dossier they have other tasks so to speak02:35:20
they are not anti-corruption02:35:22
they are doing the investigations02:35:24
are engaged in illegal influence02:35:26
Putin's influence abroad but nevertheless02:35:29
less There is such a command02:35:31
professional practitioner02:35:32
investigation02:35:33
is there02:35:35
a wider team, relatively speaking02:35:37
Milov calls himself Well, he calls himself02:35:41
identifies as a supporter of Navalny02:35:43
here he is part of the team02:35:44
Navalny Well, in my perception Yes02:35:47
Bureev is part of the team02:35:50
Navalny Well, in my perception Yes, maybe02:35:53
maybe it's not so but in my perception yes02:35:55
And at the same time, is he part02:35:59
Not yet02:36:01
so I re-examine myself in my perception02:36:05
No actually maybe they are02:36:08
I'm not that deep so I share02:36:12
there is FBK, this is a specific organization02:36:15
dealing with specific tasks and is02:36:18
wider02:36:20
field Navalny's team02:36:22
some people are in it right deep yeah02:36:26
some02:36:27
some people say so02:36:31
they have a connection but not completely02:36:34
my situation is the same02:36:37
the same situation, for example, with Dmitry02:36:42
without any doubt A02:36:45
how deep But it depends02:36:48
various situations02:36:52
the manager has changed, including you02:36:55
commented publicly on social networks02:36:57
process02:36:59
around the letter to Friedman in your opinion This02:37:03
the right decision in this situation02:37:06
resign, change leaders02:37:13
look02:37:16
in general, initially this is all I have02:37:21
the situation although caused I have in02:37:24
I mean the signing of the letter itself, or02:37:26
more precisely the two letters that I signed02:37:30
Volkov02:37:32
one on behalf of FBK the second on behalf of myself02:37:35
one in October the other in February02:37:38
of course she attracted criticism02:37:42
criticism02:37:43
because I have a position on this topic02:37:46
very clearly formulated a year ago she02:37:49
it remains like this02:37:52
First, disengagement with the regime After02:37:55
we are ready for this I am personally ready for those or02:38:00
some people don't fit in with everyone02:38:01
it is clear that there are people for whom even02:38:03
if they stir the contents for me02:38:06
it will be difficult to fit in but in general02:38:09
if a person mixed with the regime I02:38:11
ready I'm ready to talk about this02:38:15
the situation is that we fit in with you02:38:19
sanctions are lifted and you are still with the regime02:38:22
didn't stir, it's fraught with such02:38:25
the situation that arose with German02:38:27
khan when they signed for him And after02:38:30
that's why he went to a meeting with Putin Well02:38:32
it's like02:38:34
like this02:38:35
unpleasant situation, that is, she has02:38:38
I was criticized but it didn’t02:38:40
emotions because well, different people are different02:38:43
opinions02:38:45
what caused me a strong emotion is02:38:48
this one is a statement that I too02:38:54
I didn’t sign the letter, this is for me02:38:57
so to speak, some kind of barrier02:39:00
psychological perhaps due to the fact02:39:02
that I'm from business I'm a person who02:39:06
if you signed the contract02:39:10
right and wrong02:39:14
I will02:39:15
fulfill your obligations to the end02:39:18
if there is a concrete wall then counter party02:39:23
I will have to present to the negotiations02:39:25
your broken forehead02:39:29
blood scraps, so to speak, it’s clear that02:39:31
hit with his head didn't hit but hit with his head02:39:35
So02:39:36
[music]02:39:38
blood in all directions Therefore02:39:42
this made me uncomfortable02:39:45
what happened inside fbk I can02:39:50
judge again by external manifestations02:39:52
they have another different look at this thing02:39:56
they As far as I understand, again I can02:39:59
speak only about your perception and02:40:02
them02:40:05
the main criticism was that they02:40:09
the bull occupied one position and Leonid02:40:13
took a different position on their behalf, but their02:40:16
without prior knowledge and without02:40:19
having consulted with them02:40:23
It's hard for me to say how much02:40:26
within the bull's structure02:40:30
serious violation02:40:32
as a result of which a person must02:40:35
resign Well, judging by this02:40:38
that he left is apparently serious But this02:40:40
internal problem for now02:40:45
Can02:40:47
another topic02:40:53
leaders02:40:57
everyone says that02:41:00
it's just tough02:41:11
I02:41:13
I am deeply convinced that02:41:17
visit si in any case means02:41:20
a very critical situation for Russia02:41:26
the critical situation is02:41:29
economic and political turn in02:41:33
East here I came to fix02:41:36
what's the situation now02:41:40
metropolis is it02:41:46
this has already happened in our history02:41:49
this happened in our history at one time02:41:52
V02:41:55
at the very beginning of the Tatar-Mongol02:41:58
invasion02:41:59
there was a choice02:42:01
which way should the Russian princes swing?02:42:05
and these wonderful princes are02:42:10
number02:42:12
Alexander Nevsky But it was already02:42:14
a little later but it doesn't matter02:42:16
made his choice in favor02:42:21
getting a Word shortcut02:42:23
it’s worth giving it to them and by the way it’s necessary02:42:27
notice it has been preserved since then02:42:30
almost to the present02:42:33
Yes, in modern times, now you can02:42:36
to put it bluntly02:42:37
they received a kind of legitimacy02:42:41
separate from the people That is, they don’t need02:42:45
was after that to receive02:42:49
from people some additional02:42:52
legitimacy They didn't need it02:42:54
none were needed02:42:56
I didn’t even need my own fees02:42:59
aristocracy in the broad sense of the word they02:43:02
received monopoly power due to02:43:06
what in case02:43:09
conflict They could cause02:43:13
occupiers02:43:15
who suppressed this very thing02:43:18
performance and02:43:23
it’s clear that for these02:43:29
princes this gave certain02:43:33
certain advantages because02:43:35
same time in Western Europe02:43:38
the exact opposite process took place02:43:40
cities were fortified and became02:43:43
counterweight02:43:46
the local aristocracy and arose02:43:50
counterbalance cost system here with02:43:52
with the help of the Horde this is the very system02:43:54
counterweight costs02:43:56
nipped in the bud and we with this02:44:00
crushed system restraining counterweights02:44:03
have lived to this day, lagging behind everything02:44:06
time from the West and in02:44:10
cultural, humanitarian and02:44:12
in a technological sense, strictly speaking02:44:15
what is happening with China Yes we see02:44:18
what he02:44:20
lags behind technologically in every way02:44:23
case sense Although is in contrast to02:44:26
us02:44:27
a separate civilization, that is, because02:44:30
there are a lot more people there they have02:44:33
opportunity in different spheres of human02:44:35
life to create a separate culture02:44:39
separately from the rest of the world and so02:44:43
now the exact same thing has arisen02:44:45
situation Putin realized that he needed Well02:44:49
speaking02:44:50
[music]02:44:53
this roof he is now forced to02:44:57
receiving in China it may be02:45:02
momentary situation which02:45:05
will collapse after Putin leaves02:45:10
and to deep regret this may become02:45:13
another Tatar-Mongolian and yes02:45:17
no need to explain to me that the Tatar-Mongols02:45:21
The Chinese are different people I'm generally myself02:45:23
I imagine that they are a mixture between02:45:28
you are much more than what you weren’t02:45:30
assumed02:45:32
maybe it suggests so Or maybe02:45:37
this will turn into that same game when02:45:40
for a few more02:45:41
hundreds of years02:45:45
there will be power in Russia02:45:47
derived from the power of China It is clear on02:45:51
troops will not be brought in at another level02:45:54
but there is02:45:56
indirect methods of influence such as02:46:00
corrupt best suited for02:46:03
Russia02:46:05
The bandit Triad is very good at02:46:09
restore order in the ranks of foreign02:46:14
Chinese diaspora, but no one02:46:17
says she won't be able to point accurately02:46:20
the same order is in the political class02:46:23
Russia and all sorts of other possibilities02:46:26
exist That is, I think that02:46:29
Now02:46:30
this step was extremely dangerous02:46:34
direction02:46:37
literally right after everyone left02:46:40
Vladimir Putin gave an interview about the placement02:46:43
nuclear weapons in Belarus is such02:46:47
compensation02:46:50
such vassal compensation that I have02:46:53
also has his own vassal or something else02:46:58
I didn't think about it02:47:01
absolutely right02:47:06
The metropolis told him that02:47:09
there is no need to rattle nuclear weapons therefore02:47:12
he did not declare the deployment of nuclear weapons02:47:14
he said the placement of aircraft which02:47:16
can carry02:47:19
there are nuclear weapons on board02:47:22
neat, that is, I'm like here02:47:24
greyhound But not too much02:47:26
how real is this anyway?02:47:28
some kind of rate increase or this02:47:31
rattling in the literal sense of the word02:47:33
this is rattling02:47:36
Now for Putin a very acute situation02:47:39
he understands that02:47:41
is happening02:47:43
increasing arms supplies to02:47:46
Ukraine That is, those words that are now02:47:49
produced uttered in relation to02:47:51
supplies million02:47:53
artillery shells But this is already02:47:57
wow, really saying this like this02:48:01
after all, only Europe02:48:04
and Putin wants to alert the Western02:48:09
society02:48:10
in order to02:48:12
it was afraid of Western02:48:15
politicians were afraid so that they02:48:17
held their horses in terms of support02:48:20
Ukraine02:48:22
will it work or not for me02:48:25
it's a question of what02:48:27
Western society02:48:29
Western politics they are gentle creatures02:48:32
vulnerable, fearful02:48:34
and it may work, but it may not.02:48:39
because Putin's threat is a threat02:48:43
to the neighbors she is very real and visible02:48:46
Here she is02:48:48
on the threshold02:48:50
and the use of nuclear weapons has already02:48:54
scared me many times and everyone understands perfectly well02:48:58
What02:48:59
looks like he's not suicidal02:49:02
my position on this topic is in general02:49:08
I always believe that if you take02:49:13
as an argument02:49:15
threat with nuclear weapons then it is necessary02:49:19
straightaway02:49:20
take off your pants and I don’t know what else02:49:24
do02:49:25
occupy by sound Some other reason02:49:29
that then this argument will be all02:49:32
time02:49:33
like any moment that you want not02:49:37
want to buy our oil hour nuclear02:49:40
weapon02:49:41
don’t want to raise the price of GAZ now02:49:44
nuclear weapon02:49:46
what else don't you want there02:49:51
want to support the opposition in02:49:54
Russia now has nuclear weapons02:49:57
Africa is now a nuclear weapon02:50:02
here you need to tell yourself We are ready for this02:50:05
to put up or not I personally don’t when02:50:08
I'm in a threatening situation02:50:11
I'll continue to live with this02:50:14
threat I will continue to live like the rest of us02:50:16
we live with the threat that there is a brick on02:50:19
my head will fall I don’t know so to speak E in02:50:21
car in an accident, we'll get on a plane02:50:24
will crash with us But we don’t stop02:50:26
drive cars, fly planes and02:50:28
so on means Yes there is such a threat with02:50:30
this will have to live and consider it as02:50:33
argument No Not an argument02:50:35
Mikhail told European politicians02:50:37
What about timid creatures? And you02:50:40
you probably communicate with them a lot and02:50:42
in general you know their mood. Tell me02:50:45
agree with the assessment that the fate of the Ukrainian02:50:48
war will be decided in US elections02:50:50
Republicans will win or not02:50:52
because Europeans are alone02:50:55
they won’t support Ukraine like that02:51:02
I don't agree because first of all02:51:06
American politics02:51:08
after all, the politics of the country are democratic02:51:12
Although02:51:14
American political system02:51:16
arranged02:51:17
parts of domestic policy as02:51:20
parliamentary republic Well02:51:23
all internal political issues are resolved02:51:27
either at the state level or by Congress02:51:29
the president has powers within the country02:51:32
very little and foreign policy in America02:51:35
it’s just about the presidential one, that is02:51:39
the president decides most of the issues02:51:41
however, he cannot afford02:51:44
shifting the steering wheel is really cool because02:51:47
What02:51:48
American society is still deep02:51:51
democratic in02:51:53
procedure we according to the system of influence and whoever02:51:58
neither came to power as a result02:52:00
American elections support for Ukraine02:52:04
the only thing that will differ is her accents02:52:07
will be different02:52:10
radically, in any case02:52:13
medium term there through02:52:16
in a year or two maybe something will change but02:52:18
so for a year no02:52:21
the same applies to Europe here it is necessary02:52:26
understand that Europeans are European02:52:29
the industry in general is very similar02:52:30
slow and the time they02:52:34
took for themselves to go out on02:52:38
military rails02:52:40
for weapons to be supplied02:52:43
produce and supply weapons to02:52:45
volumes required for this kind of02:52:51
he certainly does not undertake large-scale actions02:52:54
posthumous two years02:52:56
but this period ends02:53:00
in another year the European industry02:53:04
which is absolutely comparable in scale to02:53:09
American Well, that is, European GDP GDP02:53:12
In America they are approximately the same02:53:16
Here she is, in general, quite rocking herself02:53:19
so each of them is 10 times more than GDP02:53:23
Russia02:53:24
So in this sense I'm right in the right place02:53:32
Putin's shobla02:53:35
I wouldn’t experience illusions here02:53:38
a slightly more difficult situation with02:53:41
people because02:53:44
people kill them, maim them and how much02:53:50
People02:53:51
Ukrainians are ready to withstand this02:53:55
absolutely insane pressure that is on02:53:58
they go this is such a question More complex02:54:01
But judging by those questions based on the results02:54:04
polls that we see but still02:54:06
Ukraine is a Democratic country and there02:54:08
polls speak about public opinion in02:54:12
difference from toltern and situation02:54:15
and continuation support02:54:20
defense of its territory, it is still02:54:23
very high02:54:26
say you are the person whose Putin02:54:29
put him in prison so they could feel02:54:31
when we heard about the news that02:54:34
arrest warrant issued for Putin02:54:38
I'll be honest02:54:41
laughed02:54:48
Putin finally got that psychological02:54:53
pleasure which he which he02:54:55
arranged many of his opponents02:55:00
squeezing them out of Russia and closing the door to02:55:04
country02:55:05
[music]02:55:06
using the Federal key or02:55:09
international02:55:10
wanted and creating problems for them with the help02:55:14
there are different intersexes up to a certain point02:55:17
moment and various intergovernmental agreements here02:55:20
today he was not in the same02:55:24
of course situations but in situations that02:55:26
he will give an idea when you02:55:29
are you going to some other country? You must02:55:31
at first you won’t be able to understand for sure02:55:35
some kind of trouble, it’s clear that02:55:37
most likely no one will arrest Putin Yes02:55:41
But02:55:42
rowdy with the delivery of warrants there with02:55:46
delivery to the police station Well02:55:48
imagine the president of a country like this02:55:50
so to speak, why do you think that no one02:55:53
Not02:55:56
well, because it’s still not complete02:55:59
idiot those countries where they can arrest him02:56:02
still won’t go, but you have to understand02:56:05
What02:56:07
there are many countries where justice is still02:56:11
independent02:56:12
And even if at the political level02:56:17
arrest decision and accordingly02:56:20
extradition to Musa02:56:22
there will be no international criminal court02:56:25
and everywhere there is a valve of political decision02:56:28
it's still there nonetheless02:56:31
all the troubles that can02:56:33
create02:56:35
independent legal system02:56:38
will try to create but just for the sake of02:56:40
to demonstrate your02:56:42
independence from the executive branch02:56:44
of your country02:56:47
for them it is important internally02:56:49
I mean, and Putin in this case02:56:51
becomes the very pawn that02:56:53
they will play out in their insides02:56:56
political02:56:58
interests and confrontations in order02:57:01
to show that the balance actually02:57:03
authorities exist and that's all for him02:57:07
extremely unpleasant02:57:10
Lvova Belova is relatively young02:57:12
woman02:57:13
what prospects do you think for her?02:57:16
Russia of the future will give her away or02:57:20
No02:57:22
Good question02:57:28
Well, in the end it’s her destiny02:57:33
sad is definitely not hers. It’s a pity02:57:35
I'm sorry, that's just how a person is02:57:38
She basically found herself in this situation02:57:43
by the will of fate and02:57:46
it is clear that she is responsible for02:57:49
those decisions that she herself made but02:57:51
nevertheless it’s always true for me02:57:53
relatively young people who are under02:57:56
pressure makes the wrong decisions02:57:58
which Putin will die sooner or later A02:58:03
next mode Easy easy change I02:58:09
Now I say regime even if there is a shift02:58:11
Some kind will come to Putin, I don’t know02:58:14
can easily exchange some kind of Belova for02:58:19
any relaxation in the area of sanctions02:58:22
and not even for complete abolition02:58:25
any easing02:58:26
that is, her fate is sad like the fate of B02:58:30
in general all those people02:58:33
who act against conscience you know02:58:35
what's the problem here if02:58:41
you do something according to your conscience and then this02:58:47
it doesn't end well for you02:58:50
there is such a very convenient harbor in02:58:52
soul02:58:54
that I suffer for what is right02:58:57
what can I do I’m suffering Well, for what’s right02:59:01
case very comfortable I can say on02:59:05
in my own example If I felt that02:59:09
I was imprisoned. Well, it would be good for me02:59:13
it's much harder to stand this one02:59:15
situation for ten years and so02:59:17
I felt02:59:19
enemies have captured It happens02:59:24
That's why02:59:26
there is one02:59:30
proverb02:59:33
Do what you have to do, what will happen, that's all02:59:37
they forget that she has the first part02:59:38
When you don't know what to do, do what02:59:42
will have to work02:59:46
In general, such a philosophical ending02:59:48
Today's broadcast We've run out02:59:50
time The hour just flew by02:59:52
Thank you very much Mikhail Khodorkovsky02:59:53
which aired live nail It02:59:57
there was a morning reversal for only two days02:59:59
this week But I think that on03:00:02
next week our Lisa will do everything03:00:06
in the required volume there will be three days, and so are we03:00:09
then we'll come back too. Don't forget about03:00:12
Echo app there after us now03:00:15
really Boris Grebenshchikov Ira03:00:18
will be back on air today with03:00:19
Leonid Kozman Bye everyoneDescription:
Максим Курников и Ирина Баблоян представляют прямой эфир программы "Утренний Разворот" на канале Живой гвоздь. Поддержать Живой Гвоздь: с карт российских банков https://pay.cloudtips.ru/p/7edd7c0e с карт иностранных банков https://www.donationalerts.com/r/zhivgvozd 0:00:00 — Начало эфира 0:04:52 — В сети появилась запись, на которой якобы Иосиф Пригожин и Фархад Ахмедов критикуют Путина 0:10:05 — На жителя Москвы завели уголовное дело за участие в уличном опросе 0:13:38 — Топ 3 материалов на сайте Эха за прошедшую неделю 0:17:51 — Лилия Чанышева уже больше 500 дней находится в СИЗО 0:18:22 — Россия размещает на территории Беларуси тактическое ядерное оружие 0:19:59 — Мини-цикл «Сказки об ускользающем короле» День 2: «Я от Гаагушки ушёл...», – о правителях, убегавших от международного правосудия. В роли рассказчика историк Алексей Кузнецов 0:59:57 — Выпуск новостей 1:03:55 — Итоги визита председателя КНР Си Цзиньпина в Москву. Комментирует Темур Умаров, китаист, научный сотрудник Фонда Карнеги 1:40:09 — Что происходит с делом Лилии Чанышевой? Рассказывает Сергей Макаренко, адвокат, защитник Лилии Чанышевой 2:01:14 — Выпуск новостей 2:05:09 — Специальный гость – Михаил Ходорковский*, общественный деятель Мы выпускаем новый том комикса «Спасти»! Он посвящён предводителю крестьянского восстания, одному из самых известных самозванцев в истории России Емельяну Пугачёву. Купить: http://diletant.shop/tproduct/243589304-335282898191-kniga-spasti-emelyana-pugachyova-tom-4 Мобильное приложение "Эха": любимые программы в формате радиоприёмника. Простой интерфейс. Работа в фоновом режиме. Расписание эфиров. Скачать: в AppStore: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/%D1%8D%D1%85%D0%BE-online/id1639907671 в PlayMarket: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=online.echofm.app Подписывайтесь на Максима Курникова в соцсетях: https://t.me/kournikov https://twitter.com/kmvir Подписывайтесь на телеграм-канал Ирины Баблоян: https://t.me/IrinaBabloyan Подписывайтесь на телеграм-канал Алексея Кузнецова: https://t.me/alexey_kuznetsov7 Подписывайтесь на Михаила Ходорковского* в соцсетях: https://t.me/khodorkovski https://twitter.com/mich261213 * - Михаил Ходорковский признан российскими властями иностранным агентом 🔔 Последние новости и анонсы программ с YouTube-канала «Живой гвоздь», а также контент от наших постоянных гостей и экспертов на официальном телеграм-канале: https://t.me/livegvozd Подписаться на Youtube-канал Дилетант: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuIE7-5QzeAR6EdZXwDRwuQ?sub_confirmation=1 📌 Живой гвоздь в аудиоформате: Яндекс.Музыка: https://music.yandex.ru/album/22141653?dir=desc Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B3%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%8C/id1616175210 Google Подкасты: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZGNsb3VkLmNvbS91c2Vycy9zb3VuZGNsb3VkOnVzZXJzOjEwOTk2NzA5MDUvc291bmRzLnJzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAIQ4aUDahcKEwigxO3Eweb2AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQEQ Магазин "Дилетант": https://diletant.shop/
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