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00:00:02

Washington Post spoke

00:00:04

anonymously with officials and representatives of

00:00:06

big business, in short, everyone is in shock

00:00:08

from the war and don’t know what to do.

00:00:09

Indeed, the general mood is exhaustion

00:00:13

and depression in the face of the expected

00:00:15

deterioration in politics and economics.

00:00:18

President Putin only sees the escalation of the conflict

00:00:20

in Ukraine how a delay against the

00:00:23

backdrop of growing contradictions the newspaper writes let's

00:00:26

discuss the mood in the establishment With

00:00:28

political scientist Gleb Pavlovsky for

00:00:31

colleagues Hello Good evening

00:00:33

Hello, tell me what you think How

00:00:36

long have these sentiments of

00:00:39

discontent been going on in the elites and when will these

00:00:42

sentiments, if this happens, get

00:00:44

to the point

00:00:47

I don’t know what you are you mean by let's

00:00:51

get down to business irritation

00:00:53

irritation was there from the very beginning because it was according

00:00:57

to the

00:01:02

ensemble that the

00:01:04

Elite

00:01:06

ensemble said we get a damn

00:01:09

ensemble

00:01:11

as if balanced relative to

00:01:14

the bureaucracy the first blow was struck in a

00:01:17

sense on February 24 because

00:01:21

they were in their own way if not in chocolate,

00:01:25

then in normal conditions for them

00:01:30

and they didn’t expect it. So the irritation

00:01:34

was background, of course, but it’s not captured by

00:01:39

sociological surveys because

00:01:43

the establishment usually doesn’t participate in them

00:01:48

now he

00:01:52

comes out, he starts talking, this is an

00:01:56

interesting point that it

00:01:59

took a war

00:02:01

for

00:02:03

people to start people at the top they started

00:02:06

talking.

00:02:09

I just don’t see the trouble in this. To be honest, it

00:02:14

seemed

00:02:16

artificially dangerous to me that the state of

00:02:19

freezing communication that was

00:02:23

achieved in the system by the end of last

00:02:26

year by the beginning of this year

00:02:30

is simply stupid and dangerous, as it turned out,

00:02:35

since the

00:02:37

authorities are beginning

00:02:39

to decide on any guidelines and

00:02:42

begin just

00:02:44

improvise what we saw today, a

00:02:48

conversation started. This, in my opinion, is good.

00:02:52

This does not at all lead to what

00:02:58

our

00:03:00

liberal friends hope,

00:03:05

but it is very useful that the

00:03:09

authorities themselves felt that they

00:03:13

were being discussed; they don’t really like it, but

00:03:16

this is not it. Even sometimes they began to admit it. That’s the point.

00:03:18

it’s so unusual for the Kremlin

00:03:22

when they react a little bit But

00:03:27

this is to refute

00:03:32

some messages that are clearly

00:03:36

gleaned from social networks and so on so

00:03:39

we yes This is a new situation for the

00:03:44

system She’s not used to it Well, we

00:03:47

’ll have to get used to it for the field of topics no less

00:03:51

This is what this communication will lead to,

00:03:53

that is, it will be possible to reach an agreement or,

00:03:55

on the contrary, it will not be possible to come to an agreement to give

00:03:57

back, and this is the thing that I had

00:03:59

in mind, there will be some kind of coup or

00:04:02

change of power Or something else to which

00:04:04

communication will lead to

00:04:06

you only as people they started talking like that

00:04:09

right away and with the coup, as if there was nothing

00:04:11

else to talk about, and first of all, the ones who

00:04:15

speak loudest,

00:04:16

I would say rather, are the supporters of the war.

00:04:19

Now they are more definite; they are

00:04:24

more inclined to take a position that

00:04:27

was not there before;

00:04:29

they are prone to sharp, sharper

00:04:33

criticism; this also did not exist before

00:04:37

criticism of the authorities and criticism of how the

00:04:44

military operation is managed, the war no longer knows what it

00:04:47

means

00:04:48

in this sense, the

00:04:51

liberal public is rather quiet now,

00:04:55

they

00:04:57

say those who left,

00:05:01

they speak loudly, sharply, radically, but

00:05:05

how Why? Because they are

00:05:08

not listened to by the authorities,

00:05:12

of course, not strictly speaking, and those who remained

00:05:16

here and

00:05:17

they say these are the new position these are the

00:05:23

new

00:05:24

belligerent Russians the

00:05:27

new belligerent Russians said

00:05:32

this is honestly useful for something we need to

00:05:37

start learning to talk again

00:05:40

and this could lead to the emergence in

00:05:43

Russia of some kind of

00:05:44

ultra-patriotic forces new forces new

00:05:46

right-wing forces ultra-right forces

00:05:48

that will then be able to form

00:05:50

political parties, for example, some

00:05:52

political institutions What is a

00:05:54

conversation? They simply forgot when people

00:05:57

talk, they become politicized, this

00:06:00

is politicization, politicization does not mean

00:06:03

that the neighbors on the front door get together and

00:06:07

create a party,

00:06:09

politicization consists of the fact that they first have

00:06:12

dinner in the family discusses what is happening

00:06:16

below; this has not been done before

00:06:18

and then it starts to be discussed at work, and

00:06:22

so on. We now see this in the chats of

00:06:25

our locals;

00:06:29

moms discuss this in mommy chats; this is

00:06:34

also a new phenomenon, which means it

00:06:39

is not political as such.

00:06:42

But it is politicization

00:06:44

that returns properties to a person.

00:06:48

citizen citizen says

00:06:51

silent citizen this

00:06:56

So I think that her cell will lead to something

00:06:58

But of course not quickly and not right away

00:07:02

and of course

00:07:05

Putin cannot like it,

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the propaganda that broadcasts likes it even less. In general, I think

00:07:14

that it visits more on Putin than on

00:07:16

the country and

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this will have paradoxical

00:07:22

consequences, that is, sometimes it can

00:07:24

have some kind of radically

00:07:29

militant radical escalatory

00:07:32

consequences, many, including my

00:07:35

friends,

00:07:37

react to the latest shelling for

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two days. Why not every day, not

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every night, and so on. That is, people

00:07:50

have lost a little human form but

00:07:54

it will return to them and it will return if they

00:07:57

talk if they

00:08:01

argue with their compatriots

00:08:04

this is a positive moment but it will not lead

00:08:09

to any quick change in the

00:08:12

Kremlin strategy it is difficult there It is

00:08:16

difficult to talk to each other there

00:08:19

they are afraid to talk to each other

00:08:23

even among themselves, among their own,

00:08:28

I don’t know how in the family

00:08:32

you said that now the

00:08:34

war party speaks most of all, let’s say this, but the

00:08:39

peace party turns out that right now there are

00:08:42

no prospects, it is necessary for everyone

00:08:46

who fought for the war and realized that

00:08:48

they were wrong.

00:08:49

No, I’m not like that I didn’t mean of course the

00:08:54

peace party. The problem is that there is a

00:08:58

war party, there are military correspondents, there is a war, they

00:09:01

are discussing something real, war, the

00:09:04

peace party should also discuss something

00:09:08

real, something

00:09:10

peace, Yes, but it does not discuss peace, it

00:09:14

acts today as a party, at

00:09:19

best, I taking benign,

00:09:23

let’s say human, they act as the

00:09:25

Solidarity Party from Ukraine, but you

00:09:29

know this position cannot possibly be

00:09:33

popular during a war, they

00:09:36

reject peace, acting in this regard

00:09:40

reactively following Ukraine, following

00:09:46

Western

00:09:47

European American circles,

00:09:51

and what can they then offer, what should they

00:09:55

discuss? that’s the problem, discussing

00:09:58

how terrible it is, how bad everything is, yes, they have already

00:10:01

repeated this many times, that’s why it

00:10:03

arose here. Yes And they are the saddest, that

00:10:07

some of them, some of them, not all of them,

00:10:10

attack those who remain here and

00:10:13

find some shortcomings in them,

00:10:16

shortcomings, just like some Komsomol members -

00:10:21

this is a complete disaster, but it will

00:10:25

eventually pass, the peace party must find

00:10:28

its subject, it must, from my point of

00:10:32

view, discuss peace or approaches to it,

00:10:36

yes, direct peace

00:10:39

is impossible, peaceful negotiations are impossible, but why? Let’s

00:10:43

discuss these approaches that are possible with

00:10:49

mutual claims They is also not

00:10:51

discussed, but is stated immediately in a

00:10:54

radical form, so Russia must

00:10:57

pay dearly And what and what’s next What What did

00:11:01

you say, in fact, that’s why they

00:11:04

likened the weak, so to speak, to the

00:11:08

weak version of the military commissar

00:11:12

really I get the feeling, even

00:11:14

for me who left, that the main problem of the

00:11:16

peace party is that it is the peace party that

00:11:18

denies the future of Russia in itself,

00:11:20

even when I speak with some

00:11:22

representatives of the peace party, this is the

00:11:23

only argument that I hear

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Russia should not exist, but I

00:11:27

for example cannot agree with this

00:11:28

formulation of the question, of course I

00:11:30

would like to show one picture An

00:11:32

interesting collage and ask question

00:11:34

Let's see This is a photo and a

00:11:38

quote from the head of the Kherson region,

00:11:39

Vladimir Baldo, who asked the

00:11:41

Russian leadership to help evacuate

00:11:43

residents of the regions in other parts of the country and

00:11:46

next to it is a statement from the deputy

00:11:48

governor of the same Kherson region,

00:11:49

Kirill Strimusov, who

00:11:51

reacted harshly to the statement of his own

00:11:53

leader with the words no evacuation in the

00:11:56

Kherson region no and cannot be These are the

00:11:58

discrepancies they are How do you

00:12:01

think they can be connected by

00:12:05

unprofessionalism because how is it possible

00:12:09

firstly during military operations

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which can turn in different

00:12:14

ways in different directions no one can

00:12:16

predict how some military operations will proceed step by step

00:12:20

they

00:12:23

may well require the evacuation of residents, but

00:12:29

such an open dispute indicates that the

00:12:34

management hierarchy has not been built

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and, moreover, it is not strong and unstable. I

00:12:42

think such things should please the

00:12:45

other side,

00:12:47

proving to them whether they are right or wrong, that

00:12:51

they are facing a weak enemy. And at the same time, the

00:12:54

Deputy Prime Minister is asleep says

00:12:57

that the government has decided to help

00:12:58

organize the departure of residents from the

00:13:01

Kherson region. Well, in general, the

00:13:04

residents will somehow be sent to

00:13:06

nearby regions for vacation,

00:13:09

apparently if they are included, we will leave aside the

00:13:14

legal side of this country’s

00:13:17

procedure, but they are now considered

00:13:20

citizens of the Russian Federation The Federation that

00:13:23

can be prohibited from moving is then

00:13:26

some kind of lost rights Citizens of the

00:13:28

Russian Federation here this is the

00:13:32

nonsense that the authorities are constantly getting into

00:13:37

you said that the top are still afraid

00:13:40

to talk to each other How do you think

00:13:42

Vladimir Putin feels seeing this

00:13:45

discontent that appears

00:13:48

feels Yes for sure, but I don’t know how

00:13:52

he treats him, he may

00:13:55

treat him hostilely and I think he even

00:13:59

most likely treats him badly, but

00:14:03

thank God recently until a week ago,

00:14:06

Peskov admitted that there are

00:14:09

some discussions on

00:14:12

strategic issues,

00:14:14

thank God, generally speaking in During

00:14:17

hostilities,

00:14:20

those who do not want to lose must

00:14:23

constantly conduct discussions on

00:14:26

strategic and tactical issues

00:14:28

at the same time, but of course, most likely

00:14:34

Putin does not like conversations around

00:14:37

him,

00:14:38

he is very nervous about any

00:14:44

cracks in the environment, especially in the inner

00:14:48

circle, and I think that he knows but I don’t

00:14:54

know what he thinks about this, what

00:14:57

if Olegovich is in this political

00:14:59

status? I apologize for the place of

00:15:02

business today because recently, after the

00:15:05

beginning of the war, there was a feeling that it was

00:15:07

as if he had been deprived of his voice.

00:15:10

Well,

00:15:12

the decision

00:15:14

itself, the decision on February 24 was,

00:15:20

of course, a

00:15:22

direct blow on business as well as a

00:15:26

blow to the bureaucratic control that

00:15:30

had somehow developed.

00:15:36

Well, I can’t say that

00:15:40

this was a decision of the vote because,

00:15:44

firstly, the government is sometimes not stupid,

00:15:47

but worked with business and responded to its

00:15:52

requests, and

00:15:53

secondly, today

00:15:56

I would like to think that the president

00:16:01

is thinking about how to

00:16:03

help business because saying what else

00:16:08

can he help him

00:16:11

right there? The paradox of this war, which is

00:16:15

practically not discussed, is that any

00:16:19

war, any absolutely,

00:16:23

seems to

00:16:28

demonstrate some kind of interests, real

00:16:32

or imaginary, of the side that is fighting the

00:16:35

country with something - then days interested in

00:16:40

this is a

00:16:42

special military operation that promises

00:16:46

those who fight and die I can’t understand

00:16:49

she promises them something other than funeral ones

00:16:53

that they can take away the Trophy from

00:16:58

Mariupol some kind of

00:17:01

charred beam What what

00:17:04

why is the

00:17:05

problem here

00:17:08

Russian business in general

00:17:11

exclusively

00:17:12

together with the population of Russia must

00:17:15

pay for

00:17:18

this war, but first of all, with

00:17:21

monstrous losses, which means where is his interest? Does

00:17:26

n’t Putin even think about

00:17:30

what the

00:17:32

interest of business might be? Of course,

00:17:35

the interest of business is that it might give him a

00:17:39

free hand and give him the opportunity to

00:17:41

earn money anywhere, even in this

00:17:44

very Myanmar And Burkina Faso if I don’t

00:17:49

manage to

00:17:50

run around the world and earn something somewhere

00:17:53

like these very

00:17:57

unfortunate women in the early nineties

00:18:01

were running around with these bags But they

00:18:04

trade there and get something and so on,

00:18:08

but they are even this they can’t do that. They

00:18:13

still have control, but there’s no money,

00:18:17

and the business needs, of course, a sharp, and

00:18:23

here I would say a very sharp,

00:18:27

abrupt transition from a less regime to freedom of

00:18:32

hands and he must demand it. Otherwise,

00:18:35

they’re just an

00:18:37

entrepreneur, contrary to his own

00:18:40

character, he’ll have to lie down and

00:18:42

die, that’s not naturally,

00:18:47

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00:18:48

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Политолог Глеб Паловский в прямом эфире программы «Воздух» на канале Ходорковский Live констатировал огромный рост интереса россиян к политике. Разговоры о войне, Украине и курсе Владимира Путина теперь ведутся там, где раньше им было не место. По мнению Павловского, у этого будут далеко идущие последствия. В частности, в ответ власти начали всерьез слушать население. Боятся говорить между собой только в Кремле, как считает Павловский. Политолог даже отметил, что государственная пропаганда сейчас работает не столько на россиян, сколько на самого Владимира Путина. Нечего обсуждать и партии мира. Зато у тех, кто поначалу приветствовал войну в Украине, сейчас очень много разнообразных мыслей и сомнений. Программа «ДОРОЖНАЯ КАРТА». Ходорковский и Пастухов: Путин в колее. Пригожин и Кадыров могут решить, что «папа устал» https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIv99DU65tA Программа «ВОЙНА». ЖДАНОВ: ГРУ взорвало Крымский мост, отвлекая от неудач на фронте. Армия против ФСБ. Замена для Шойгу / Олег Жданов, Сергей Асланян https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpyF134rs4 «Чисто конкретная политика» с Владимиром Пастуховым. Взрыв на Крымском мосту — последствия. Молчание Путина. Нобелевская премия https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h-QV_4_sKo ШЕНДЕРОВИЧ: Ракетами Путин Украину не сломит. Мы продолжаем погружение, дна все нет. Спасибо Земфире https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3fk_Mtl5rA Программа «МАШИНЫ» с Сергеем Асланяном: Зачем «Москвич» ищет дилеров. Цены на платных дорогах вырастут. Пока, Toyota! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_sOTss83Q Программа «ТРУБА» с Михаилом Крутихиным. Кто и зачем взорвал «Северный поток»? Сделка с талибами. После газовой войны — ядерная? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBx_P_7_LSQ Программа «ВТОРЖЕНИЕ»: Как долго Украина сможет наступать? Анализ британского вице-маршала Шона Белла. Ведущий — Михаил Козырев: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC3qlGVAyhQ ВАЛЕРИЙ СОЛОВЕЙ: Ни одной семьи, которой не коснется мобилизация, не будет. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdJGndqfuc Основной канал Михаила Ходорковского: https://www.youtube.com/user/khodorkovskyru ============================= Плейлисты: ► Блог Ходорковского: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7kI1pJUZbs&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl4Grv-wza2qAaE322NcoK0c ► Ответы на вопросы: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGc56bUvs8&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl7VIGZSi0O6vmqGTNKnqb9Y ► Интервью с Ходорковским: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUpN6Si0hGl6NhQa9nhFk3E6bwAgml7yM ► Правозащита: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WjEvgt0tg&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl7aRDjrl1vICk3jXAjFtNtG Социальные сети: ► Twitter: http://bit.ly/MBK-Twitter ► Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser ► Telegram: https://t.me/khodorkovski ► Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser ► ВКонтакте: http://bit.ly/MBK-VKontakte =============================

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