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Russian
00:00:16
You're lying.00:00:18
Meet Kolya Solodnikov in Rome.00:00:20
I'm a grouch.00:00:21
Who is Yuri Dud?00:00:22
I ate cakes for all my life and I found out you didn't have any.00:00:26
You can't die a bastard.00:00:28
This is horror, pain, fear and disaster.00:00:30
Back and back and back and back00:00:40
The biggest pat of this episode was shot in the late February.00:00:48
Our last meeting in Rome took place two days before the war. 00:00:57
Yes.00:00:58
We shot the episode in different locations and talked about different things...00:01:02
Then we went home and two days later the war began.00:01:07
To make it clear for the audience: here we are three months later.00:01:16
All the other locations were filmed before the war began.00:01:21
Yep.00:01:25
[Italy, Rome]00:01:38
When we were choosing a location for this interview you suggested Rome.00:01:42
You said it was a very important city for you.00:01:45
[Nikolay Solodnikov - 40 years old, Eshenepozner YouTube channel host, born in Demidov (Smolensk region)]00:01:52
First of all, thanks for this idea. I love the view. What is so important for you here?00:02:02
It feels like home. When Katya took me here...00:02:06
[Ekaterina Gordeeva - a journalist, Nikolay's wife]00:02:08
I felt like I've been here before. Maybe in the past life. Maybe even before.00:02:18
Or maybe I'll be here after I die. It feels like home.00:02:24
I like it. People don't care about you here.00:02:30
Nobody cares about you. And I don't mean they are aggressive. This is a kind way of not caring.00:02:43
Everyone feels good here. And there is a place for everyone here.00:02:46
Do you remember where you were when I decided to make Eshenepozner?00:02:50
I was having a walk in Riga.00:02:51
[Solodnikov lives in Riga since 2015]00:02:53
I'd been thinking about it for more than a year.00:02:56
[The first episode of Eshenepozner came out in October 2018]00:02:58
I'd been thinking about it for a long time. Then you started your channel.00:03:03
And then in about a year I decided to do it.00:03:08
What was your goal?00:03:10
My goal was...There are many contemporaries of us whom I know or don't know personally...00:03:19
Who are the gems of Russian culture. I wanted to introduce them to a larger audience...00:03:31
And to pay them back. I wanted to tell them how much I love them in front of everyone.00:03:41
It's a bow on the tape.00:03:44
What did you do before Nepozner?00:03:47
Suvorov military school. Then?00:03:50
A cadet school. Of rocket artillery. Then I studied in three universities.00:03:56
The Smolensk Arts School, then The Moscow University of Culture, and I finished Saint Petersburg University of Culture and Arts.00:04:04
I also got a PhD in the Higher School of Arts. It took me 1.5 or 2 years.00:04:10
Then I went teaching. I worked in the Traditional Culture College in Tsarskoe Selo.00:04:15
I was teaching World Culture and Literature.00:04:17
Then apart from teaching I started working on TV.00:04:20
I hosted some shows on local TV. Then I also started teaching in the University of Culture.00:04:27
Then after I quit TV...00:04:32
After you quit TV you had a library. And then you hosted Open Dialogues.00:04:36
Yes, but it was not long. I worked as a deputy director of the Mayakovskaya library.00:04:40
I started the Open Library festival. We made two or three.00:04:44
And then I started my YouTube channel.00:04:48
So right now we are on the Pincho hill. Borghese gardens are here.00:04:54
Villa Borghese is here. This is a must-see if you want to know Rome.00:05:02
This is my favorite museum. If we talk about art galleries...00:05:07
This is number one for me, as well as Hermitage.00:05:10
There is a very intense interview with you on click-or-die...00:05:17
My only interview...00:05:18
I remember the part where you told them about crying in a museum.00:05:24
Yes.00:05:25
Can you tell me about your first time?00:05:27
When I first cried? It's hard to remember. Maybe it was here in Borghese.00:05:33
It's an intense feeling of joy. Joy given to you by life.00:05:38
We are two casual Russian guys standing in Rome at the Villa Borghese.00:05:46
[Villa Borghese - a landscape garden in Rome, containing a number of buildings, museums and attractions. Total area - 80 hectares, founded in 1606]00:05:48
It's a sunny day, parrots flying around. Bernini, Bellini, Rafael behind our back.00:05:54
Michelangelo in front. And so on. Yura, we are so fucking lucky.
We are so fucking happy.00:06:00
We might not deserve it but our goal is to enjoy it and not take it for granted.00:06:10
This is how I feel. When I come here or I come to the Hermitage, or to the Pushkin's museum...00:06:20
I think that I'm such a blessed person to get to see it.00:06:23
I am seeing it. One small twist of destiny could take away Fedotov's landscapes, Repin's paintings, Surikov and so on...00:06:34
I would never see them. I would be still reading books and looking at the black and white illustrations.00:06:40
But God wanted us to be here now. I feel blessed and I can't hold back my tears. This is how I feel.00:06:48
So you are crying because of the moment itself? Not because of the context?00:06:51
When I went to the Picasso museum and looked at Guernica and googled the history behind it...00:07:03
[Guernica was painted in 1937 after the bombing of Guernica, a Basque country town]00:07:04
I was too emotional about it and cried. But it's different for you.00:07:09
No. I've seen it all in the books before.00:07:14
So you 'googled' it before going to the museum.00:07:15
I read everything. I read the biographies of the Italian artists, I read the books about the Russian artists.00:07:24
And then my life changed and I got to go here.00:07:28
I walked out of Termini station and lost my breath.00:07:34
After seeing it for a million times...00:07:40
Gasparov said that...00:07:42
[Mikhail Gasparov (1935-2005) - literary scholar and philologist]00:07:43
That they couldn't go abroad in the Soviet times. And Gasparov was an outstanding expert of Ancient Greece.00:07:47
When he finally went to Greece being an old man...00:07:51
He said 'don't tell me anything. I know everything about this place'.00:07:54
'I can guide you through this place because I know every little rock here'.00:07:58
He had been seeing it in the books for fifty years.00:08:02
I can't imagine what he felt.00:08:04
Me too. It gives me goosebumps. I'm having goosebumps all the time.00:08:08
Sorry.00:08:09
I can't stop thinking about the people in Russia who are better than me and you.00:08:18
This is true.00:08:19
They are smarter than us and they deserve it much more.00:08:22
But we are getting it. How can we not cry?00:08:28
Teachers, doctors, who will probably never get to see Rome.00:08:34
But we did.00:08:36
[Ads about the thing that makes us happier]00:08:39
We are going to talk about arts again.00:08:45
We're in Munich. This is Lenbachhaus Gallery behind my back.00:08:49
It contains a variety of works by a great Russian artist Wassily Kandinsky.00:08:54
These works were given to the museum by his muse Gabriele Münter.00:08:58
Munich was a very important city for Kandinsky. He considered Germany his second home.00:09:03
After WWI he came back to Moscow and left some of his works here.00:09:08
After Kandinsky secretly got married Münter decided not to give him his works back.00:09:14
Little did she know about the trouble she would get into.00:09:17
After 1937 abstract art was announced degenerative in Germany.00:09:23
Münter had to hide the paintings from the Nazis in her basement.00:09:28
These paintings became the foundation of Kandinsky collection in the Lenbachhaus.00:09:36
You can learn more about Wassily Kandinsky and his art in the online course on Synchronization.00:09:46
The course is called 'What are the paintings silent about'.00:09:49
It is dedicated to twelve most important artists of the XX century.00:09:53
There is a separate section on each artist with not only his biography and works but also the context of his era.00:10:02
This is a twelve-episode film about the XX century that requires no specific knowledge.00:10:09
We talked about Synchronization in one of our episodes last year.00:10:14
Now they have much more courses available.00:10:18
For example, there's a course about the World Wars.00:10:22
A large research about the wars being part of a common process which defined the modern world.00:10:28
It is very informative and educational. It helps understanding what is happening now.00:10:32
A course called 'Poetry: to understand and to love' is a guide to Russian poetry from Pushkin to Oxxxymiron.00:10:40
Synchronization is one of the biggest online lecture centers in Russia.00:10:44
In six years more than 200 thousand people have completed a course there.00:10:48
Synchronization helps you to learn new things.00:10:54
To make learning easier they have different formats.
There are videos, graphics, tests and extra materials.00:11:10
Go to the link in the description below and find the best course for you in Synchronization.00:11:17
For the 'What are the paintings silent about' course enter the promo code ВДУДЬ to get 40% off.00:11:24
Use the promo code to get 30% off of all the other courses.00:11:28
Click to learn something new and interesting. Let's go.00:11:36
[Back to Italy]00:11:39
You made a documentary about visiting your grandmother in Demidov.00:11:45
This was a very touching episode. I'll put a link below.00:11:50
Did you receive any comments saying 'Kolya, you are a star on YouTube and your grandmother still has to struggle'?00:11:56
I did.00:11:58
What was your reaction?00:12:00
I felt like it was a primitive view of the story that I wanted to share.00:12:06
These people know nothing about my life.
They did not understand my intention.00:12:14
What did they see there? They did not understand anything.00:12:23
You're 38, aren't you?00:12:27
I can't believe I'm 38.00:12:30
You'll turn forty in two years.00:12:32
Forty years old! I still feel like a...00:12:37
You'll become a pensioner soon.00:12:39
Yes, soon.00:12:41
Time flies.00:12:43
The decision to make this documentary was a lot harder for me than the decision to start a channel.00:12:52
I'd been talking about shooting this story for about two years.00:13:03
I had talked to Katya, to my team, to the people who I listen to.00:13:07
It was hard for me even to start talking about it.00:13:12
It was hard for me to think about it.00:13:16
I had to find courage to do things I had never done before.00:13:28
Then I wanted to know what my closest people thought about it.00:13:36
What was so hard about it?00:13:38
I had to show something that worried me the most.00:13:44
This was...00:13:55
The most intimate part of my life. There was nothing more intimate than this.00:14:01
Than the relations with your grandmother?00:14:03
Than the relations with grandma, my attitude towards my homeland, my home, my family.00:14:08
So when people write why my grandma is there...00:14:16
It's a very complex story.00:14:21
It was quite hard to show it without hiding behind the camera.00:14:29
My family, as well as yours...I'm a bit older than you...had to go through a very difficult period.00:14:36
I saw families breaking up in the nineties. They had to live under new circumstances.00:14:43
We were not ready to face the new reality.00:14:48
My family broke up, too. I went studying. Something was happening to my father and to my mother also.00:14:55
My grandma still lived in her house. All the 92 years of her life she spent there.00:15:04
She has never left the house.00:15:07
The older you get, the harder it is to come back to the place where you were happy.00:15:12
Childhood is always the happiest time of your life. I was always happy when I was a kid. 00:15:19
This is how I remember it. So when you...fuck...00:15:30
Wait a sec...00:15:49
The older you get, the harder it is to come back to the place that is so precious.00:15:54
It brings back the memories.00:16:00
I dream about my childhood often. If you ask me how heaven looks like...00:16:05
How I see it...00:16:07
I think it's when you die and open your eyes and you're at your grandma's porch.00:16:17
I can't...00:16:19
I was happy there. And I think about it often. My childhood was a heaven on Earth.00:16:26
I dream about it all the time.00:16:28
I'm like a son to my grandma because my father is dead.00:16:33
Of course, we offered her to move. But you must know the psychology of a Russian woman...00:16:43
She's used to her house, her oak tree.00:16:46
You can't make her leave this place. Even when she can't take care of herself.00:16:56
We were like to have such a neighbor as Natasha, she was in the film. She helped her a lot.00:17:01
And it's a common thing.00:17:03
I wish you filmed the Cucumber day celebration. There's so many people. It's great.00:17:12
I have so many memories but it gets harder to come back.00:17:20
I tried to explain. It breaks my heart.00:17:22
My mom used to come there. She said 'Granny, let's fix your home'.00:17:29
She said okay. And forty minutes later she says 'leave everything as it was. Don't do anything. I want it to stay as it is'.00:17:37
One of your favorite paintings is stored here.00:17:39
It's my favorite.00:17:40
What is it?00:17:41
Madonna and the Child by Bellini. Brodsky talks about this painting at his Venice walks with Rein.00:17:45
[Eugene Rein - poet, writer, Brodsky's friend. 'Walking by with Brodsky' was shot based on their walks in Venice]00:17:47
Brodsky says 'Eugene, do you remember Bellini's painting?'00:17:54
'What is the highest level of art? It's when you see Madonna's hand holding the child's feet...00:18:03
But there's a tiny space between her hand and his foot. She is not touching him.
The whole world's tenderness is inside these millimeters'.00:18:14
You know, it is hard to describe. I'm having goosebumps again.00:18:19
It's there on the third floor. It's crazy.00:18:23
Unbelievable. Agree?00:18:30
You said that one of your most desired guests is an Estonian...00:18:36
It's Pärt.00:18:37
Estonian composer. Zero chance to meet him?00:18:39
Yes. There is some chance but I need to ask my friends who are friends with him.00:18:50
I have a couple of such friends. Alexey Uminsky, Olga Sedakova.00:18:55
I could ask them. But I don't want to force it.00:19:01
I hope it is destined to happen. I'm not kidding.00:19:03
If we are destined to meet and talk or not to talk...then it's going to happen.00:19:10
If not, then we won't meet. Now I feel like I shouldn't force it.00:19:18
I have to wait.00:19:19
And he's a modern classic.00:19:21
He's the most performed modern composer in the world.00:19:25
His music is performed every day in hundreds of halls.00:19:32
Every day. He's the most popular composer alive.00:19:38
And probably one of the most performed composer of the XX century.00:19:41
He's not only popular. As Sedakova said...00:19:48
[Olga Sedakova - poet, interpreter and philologist]00:19:49
She said 'When I met Pärt I realized that I had never met such a deep person before'.00:19:58
His way of thinking is really deep. He doesn't play with the public or the establishment...00:20:07
He never plays with the agenda. He is so concentrated on himself and his music...00:20:15
And what he considers divine...There are people like him.00:20:22
I've met these people. They are rare.00:20:24
How old were you when your parents divorced?00:20:29
My father disappeared in 1995. He left for work and just disappeared for two years.00:20:38
Did he come back?00:20:41
Grandma....fuck...00:20:45
I'm sorry for asking.00:20:47
It's fine.00:20:48
I can't tell your story without it.00:20:49
It's hard for me. I'm ready to talk about but I need some time.00:20:55
We have time.00:20:57
Wait a sec.00:20:59
So in 1995 he left us for work. He wasn't made for making money though.00:21:06
But he had to work at a construction site in Moscow. And he started drinking there.00:21:14
He disappeared. My mom went looking for him. She made the posters.00:21:27
So..he...00:21:31
I think about it often. But I'm afraid to say it out loud even to myself.00:21:41
It's hard.00:21:44
He went missing and my mom was looking for him.00:21:47
She sticked the posters on the train stations. I entered cadet school.00:21:53
Then we found him. I went to his home in Moscow suburbs.00:21:59
And my mom came. It's hard to describe.00:22:04
He felt embarrassed.00:22:06
And the only person that made him come back was my grandma.00:22:17
He came back.00:22:18
Came back to her.00:22:20
Did he have a new family there? Or was it about alcohol?00:22:22
He was so desperate and lonely...00:22:29
He didn't have anyone but a dog.00:22:32
Did you talk to him after that?00:22:33
Of course, we did.00:22:35
Did you talk about it?00:22:37
He didn't want to talk about it. He made jokes or just didn't talk about it.00:22:44
He was...conscientious.00:22:51
How did you justify it? What happened? Why did he leave?00:22:55
I don't think it happened in my family only. I think that period was a very difficult time for many families.00:23:02
The situation in the country...00:23:08
Everything used to be fine. People knew how to live their lives.00:23:15
And then everything ruined.00:23:22
It's hard for me to be in my father's shoes.00:23:24
He had to admit the fact that he could not feed his family00:23:34
So he started drinking. Mom tried to help us but she also failed.00:23:44
So he was desperate. Everything was ruined. Everything.00:23:50
We did not survive the challenge of the time. As well as many others.00:23:56
How did your mom survive it?00:23:57
It was hard. It was very hard. She never showed she was offended.00:24:02
She was strong. And then she met the man who had loved her all his life.00:24:07
He looked for her. They first met when Andrey, my stepfather, studied in a military school in Smolensk.00:24:18
And she studied in a Culture school in Smolensk.00:24:22
And then he went to Afghanistan. His mother was against their love.00:24:31
He was wounded in Afghanistan. He had a hard life but he still loved her and looked for her.00:24:40
She left Smolensk and they got lost.00:24:43
And when my dad was missing for two years and we had no money, no food, no nothing...00:24:53
Andrey found her and came to Demidov.00:24:57
He came in and said 'Nadyusha, I've been looking for you all my life'.00:25:01
Did you accept him?00:25:02
Of course, I did. I did. He's a brilliant man. A true Russian officer.00:25:07
How did your relations with your dad went on?00:25:10
After he came back he didn't make it out of the alcohol abuse.00:25:16
When I went to the university he met a woman. She passed away later, too.00:25:25
And he stopped drinking because of her. He found some work in Demidov.00:25:34
I was in my teenage period. It's the worst one.00:25:38
You don't understand anything but you are very emotional. You think that you are the smartest.00:25:44
Instead of supporting my dad I did vice versa...00:25:50
I wanted to teach him. I was wrong.00:25:52
Then his woman passed away and he started drinking again. 00:25:57
Then he had a stroke. It affected his health seriously.00:26:02
Later he died after another stroke.00:26:04
How old was he?00:26:06
He was born in 1960 and died in 2014. 54 years old.00:26:10
How is your mom doing?00:26:12
She's good. She moved to Moscow.00:26:17
Andrey became more motivated because of her. He worked in car repairs.00:26:27
Then he worked in a school. My mom still works in a school.00:26:30
They are a beautiful family. My brother Mitya was born in 2000, he's 22 now.00:26:37
He's a great guy. They're good.00:26:40
Is your mom a teacher?00:26:43
She's a head of school theater. She's the director.00:26:46
She's been doing it for ages. In Demidov she was the head of the teachers house.00:26:51
She organized after-class events for teachers and their students.00:26:56
It was an amazing place. A cultural center of Demidov.00:26:59
And now she has one of the best school theaters in Moscow. They keep winning prizes.00:27:06
She is a very dedicated person. She loves kids. She can't live without her job.00:27:19
We're on Piazza Del Popolo now. A people's square.00:27:22
You got engaged with Katya in this church.00:27:29
We did.00:27:30
How come?00:27:31
We went to Rome and decided to find the rings and pledge our infinite love.00:27:42
We were looking for the rings but this place was too expensive for us. We could not afford the rings we saw.00:27:50
And then we saw a beautiful dog in one of the windows.00:27:56
We stood there and looked at the dog.00:27:59
A real dog?00:28:00
Yes, a real dog. And then an old man in his late seventies came out the door.00:28:04
A true Italian man. He asked if we liked the dog.00:28:08
We said yes. He asked us what we were looking for.00:28:10
We said rings and he said come in.00:28:12
It turned out to be a jewelry store where he worked all his life with his wife.00:28:17
He asked what kind of rings we wanted. We said something classic and simple.00:28:20
And then his wife came out of her workplace and said 'Do you want the same rings as we have?'00:28:28
And showed us a simple ring on her finger.00:28:32
Our parents had similar.00:28:34
Yes. We said this was what we needed.00:28:37
They said 'great, come here in three days to get the rings'.00:28:40
They also engraved tu sei me. You are me.00:28:47
Wow. You are me?00:28:51
This is how we got the rings. The most interesting part is..00:28:56
About eight years later...00:29:02
We've never seen this store again.00:29:05
Maybe they thought they would never find a better customer.00:29:08
No! It feels like they appeared there for half an hour to meet us and then disappeared forever!00:29:18
I swear! We've been here like thirty times! We've walked everywhere.00:29:23
We haven't seen the man, his wife, the dog and the store since.00:29:28
Like they never existed. Made the rings and disappeared.00:29:33
So then we went to Santa Maria Del Popolo church and engaged there under Caravaggio.00:29:39
Is there Caraggio?00:29:40
Yes.00:29:41
Did he paint the walls?00:29:42
There are some of his works there. There's Caravaggio almost in every church here.00:29:46
How do you and Katya manage your work-life balance? You have four kids and you both are working.00:29:52
We plan our business trips in advance.00:29:58
We try to have at least on of us at home. Sometimes we manage to do it, sometimes we fail.00:30:04
But we also have two babysitters and a grandmother.00:30:09
It's easy when we are both at home. We drive kids to school in the morning...00:30:15
And then we can work until afternoon. There's no problem with that.00:30:20
We have four kids, though. I think it's easier than having one or two kids. 00:30:24
They get too much attention in this case. Having four kids is different.00:30:29
You do have a permanent babysitter.00:30:30
We've had her for many years.00:30:32
Does she live with you?00:30:33
She does.00:30:34
You are me. Is this your concept of relationship?00:30:36
Absolutely. You are me forever. You are me.00:30:41
Not 'I complement you and you complement me'? You equals me?00:30:46
You are me.00:30:48
When and how did you guys meet?00:30:50
I met her in Saint Petersburg on July 19, 2013.00:30:55
I invited Katya to a fest that I did on New Holland Island, Saint Petersburg.00:31:00
When I saw her there I fell in love. She was an incredible person and she still is.00:31:07
How can you not fall in love with her?00:31:09
Had you heard about her before? Of course you had heard her name.00:31:14
I knew she was a journalist on NTV. But I was more impressed by her book 'How to defeat cancer'.00:31:21
It was a follow-up to her documentary on NTV.00:31:23
Did you like her when you saw her on TV or you fell in love when you met her?00:31:32
I heard about the book coming out and decided to invite her to the fest.00:31:38
To introduce the book and to talk about it.00:31:41
She was never a star for me.00:31:46
You fell in love. What's next?00:31:49
I fell in love. And I was absolutely convinced I would live my life with this person.00:32:00
There was no doubt in that.00:32:02
We started dating. We met in July and next January she moved in with me.00:32:13
Then we got married in May.00:32:18
You had another wife before her.00:32:19
I did.00:32:20
What kind of marriage was that?00:32:21
It was beautiful. I had a very good wife. She's a great person.00:32:25
It happens. It was a love that gives you no choice.00:32:39
I met Katya and my life turned to another path.00:32:45
Were you still married when you met Katya?00:32:48
I was. Yes.00:32:51
Before I started dating Katya I told my wife I fell in love with someone.00:32:59
I didn't know if Katya would love me. But I wanted to tell the truth to my wife before it.00:33:11
Did you leave her or replaced her?00:33:14
I replaced her.00:33:16
You had a healthy relationship...You were both satisfied...00:33:21
We had problems like everyone has.00:33:24
So you were not on the verge of divorce?00:33:25
No, we were not. We were not.00:33:28
I just fell in love with another woman and couldn't do anything about that.00:33:32
I still...I'm still sorry for hurting my ex-wife.00:33:41
She did not deserve this but there was nothing I could do.00:33:47
It happens.00:33:49
How hard was it? You had a kid.00:33:51
It's hard for me to talk about it.00:33:55
How old was he?00:33:56
Three...Yura, I don't want to talk about it.00:34:00
Do you talk to your ex-wife?00:34:02
I don't want to talk about it. We don't.00:34:06
You don't talk to each other?00:34:08
She did not forgive you.00:34:09
I did not ask her this. I know I hurt her and the best I can do is to help.00:34:15
I do my best to help them but...there's no response.00:34:19
Your kids go to the German school.00:34:21
Sasha goes to Jewish school, and the rest go to German school.00:34:25
It means they study biology and literature in German.00:34:30
Yes but about 80% of their classmates are Russian. In this German school.00:34:38
Classes are taught in German. They also study Russian, Latvian, English and a language of choice.00:34:45
Liza and Yasha chose Italian. They are multilingual kids.00:34:52
Do you speak German?00:34:54
Katya is learning German, I don't. Katya's father knows German perfectly.00:34:58
Better than the Germans.00:35:00
So soon your kids will talk German when they want to keep a secret from you.00:35:06
It's easy. They can't keep it from Katya but I'm a fool in this sense.00:35:12
Does it bother you?00:35:13
It doesn't.00:35:14
Why?00:35:15
First of all, I'm bad at learning languages. Moreover, everyone has to have a secret.00:35:25
We're in a place where I brought you. It was my idea to visit a house where Nikolay Gogol used to live.00:35:35
Gogol had lived in Rome for six years I guess.00:35:38
Including other trips, yes.00:35:41
Let's make it clear - the best way to learn about Gogol in Italy is to watch Parfenov's Gogol-bird documentary.00:35:43
There are a few books about Gogol in Italy. They are good, as well as Parfenov's documentary.00:36:03
It is so interesting. I was shocked to find out that on Ivanov's painting The Appearance of Christ Before the People...00:36:16
Ivanov was a friend of Gogol in Rome.00:36:19
Just look at this character...00:36:24
Do you know who am I talking about?00:36:26
Let's clarify.00:36:29
Look.00:36:30
Got it. This man looks like...00:36:32
The guy in red. This is Gogol in his dress. It's him.00:36:37
I agree. It is one of the trustworthy legends.00:36:42
How was it possible to write Dead Souls - the Russian Odyssey - being 3000 kilometers away from the place he was writing about?00:36:56
I have the same question - how could Ivanov write one of the most important Russian paintings from here?00:37:06
[Ivanov came to Rome as a scholar one lived there for 27 years]00:37:07
Listen...Painting is different from literature.00:37:09
I can tell you why. The Golden era of Russian culture - all our great accomplishments in poetry, prose, painting...00:37:23
Were all born here. In Rome, Italy, Naples, Florence and so on.00:37:31
I can tell you there would be no Golden era of Russian culture if it wasn't for Italy.00:37:39
For Rome. And the great culture of Italy.00:37:42
We are European. At least those people who created our culture were Europeans.00:37:50
It offends me the most when people say that we are the successors of Byzantium. Constantinople and not Rome.00:38:06
I strongly disagree with that. I feel like we should worship this city, this country, these people and the millenniums...00:38:16
That gave us the Golden era, the Silver era of Russian culture.
I hope we will see another great era in the future.00:38:23
It's the source of our culture.00:38:26
By the way, from the Parfenov's documentary I've leant that Gogol was one of the first Italian cuisine enjoyers in Russia.00:38:32
Yes, he was.00:38:33
There's sushi and pasta everywhere now. I can't imagine that pasta wasn't popular back then.00:38:39
People looked at him like he was crazy. Firm pasta? What is that? They didn't know about al dente.00:38:46
Yes, he cared a lot about cooking pasta the right way.00:38:50
He could not stand overdone pasta. Number one pasta enjoyer.00:38:55
Kolya, this cafe is important for you, isn't it?00:38:59
Greco.00:39:00
What is this?00:39:01
It's not only important for me. It's important for the Russian culture, for both of us.00:39:06
All the great people...00:39:09
Drank here.00:39:10
They ate, they drank...Mostly coffee. They ate some deserts. This place is famous for it.00:39:16
As far as I know it used to be a trattoria. So Gogol ate pasta at that table.00:39:22
Yes, they ate, too. Not only deserts.00:39:26
Kiprensky, Ivanov, Gogol, Turgenev.00:39:30
If we talk about European composers and artists...00:39:33
Pick any starting from mid 18 century until now.00:39:41
They like to have the pictures of their famous visitors.00:39:45
Yes, they have some pictures and some notes.00:39:48
And they have a lot of pictures of the cafe. It's more than 250 years old.00:39:52
[Antico caffe Greco was opened in 1760 by a Greek native]00:39:54
It's more than 250 years old.00:39:58
To Greco.00:39:59
Yes, to Greco.00:40:05
Feels good.00:40:08
You are smiling. One sip of alcohol and you are happy now.00:40:14
Kolya. It works.00:40:16
I does.00:40:17
Do you love drinking?00:40:20
Yes but I don't drink a lot.00:40:22
But I do it often. But not a lot.00:40:25
But often.00:40:26
Every day.00:40:27
Every day?00:40:28
I drink about 100 gram every evening.00:40:31
What is it?00:40:32
Hard alcohol. I started drinking hard alcohol lately.00:40:36
Whiskey. And on my day off I would drink vodka in the afternoon.00:40:43
I respect vodka. It's an optimistic drink.00:40:47
An optimistic drink? Why?00:40:49
It makes me feel better. This day and the next day.00:40:53
But you are drunk. After drinking vodka.00:40:57
I would have like 2 or 3 shots during lunch.00:40:59
I eat a lot and then go outside.00:41:03
I would walk for 60 or 90 minutes.00:41:06
I am not drunk after it. Just funny.00:41:09
Last year you started making episodes where you drink with the famous people.00:41:16
How did you get to it?00:41:18
How did you get this idea?00:41:23
I still think that this is the best way to spend your time.00:41:31
I thought - what makes me the most happy?00:41:35
I swear this is how it was. I would invite Norshtein, Kleiman, Zvyagintsev, Krymov.00:41:43
We would drink and discuss things we like the most.00:41:50
Like, painting. I know they all love painting.00:41:54
We would sit and talk about it. Nobody notices cameras.00:42:02
I called them and said 'Let's sit, drink and talk arts'.00:42:08
We didn't talk about arts that much but we had a great time.00:42:11
Were you surprised by a million views?00:42:13
[1.5 million by June 2022]00:42:14
Yes, I am still surprised.00:42:21
In my head I can't imagine what a thousand people crowd looks like.00:42:24
Just imagine a line of a thousand people on Via Condotti.00:42:32
I can't imagine this. A million is a crazy number.00:42:38
In one of my first visits to Rome...00:42:41
The weather was cloudy. Me and Katya were walking somewhere here and I had an umbrella in my hand.00:42:48
I was walking like this and for some reason I became too classy.00:42:55
My posture changed. 'Hey Rome, meet a guy from Smolensk'.00:43:04
It was a crowded street. Restaurants full of people.00:43:10
And I didn't notice a clown walking behind me and impersonating me.00:43:15
I don't know what I was thinking about. Everyone was laughing at me.00:43:20
He was walking the same way as me. Katya was laughing in tears.00:43:24
I didn't understand what was going on.00:43:27
I looked back and he was like...00:43:30
I felt so embarrassed.00:43:31
Embarrassed?00:43:32
Yes. But I laughed at it.00:43:35
The whole street was laughing. 'Meet Kolya Solodnikov in Rome'.00:43:40
If I am not mistaken Hans Christian Andersen used to rent a flat above this cafe.00:43:44
He did.00:43:46
Can you name your favorite fairytales to read to kids?00:43:51
The Adventures of Dennis...00:43:56
Neznayka by Nosov. All books. 00:43:59
Mark Twain. Moomin books by Tove Jansson.00:44:04
This is what I read to them when they were little.00:44:08
I still read to my youngest son. We love Harry Potter. Fendus and...00:44:13
Findus.00:44:14
Right, Findus and his adventures.00:44:17
And the Russian classics. Pushkin and so on.00:44:25
Why do you love the Adventures of Dennis so much? 00:44:26
You have an interview shot in a beautiful church...00:44:31
It's an episode with metropolitan Illarion.00:44:33
Yes. And you were shaming him for not having read the Adventures of Dennis.00:44:39
'You haven't read the Adventures of Dennis?' This man speaks more languages than we know countries.00:44:45
[Illarion said he spoke nine languages]00:44:46
And you were stuck on Dennis.00:44:49
It was shocking for me. Until that moment I was sure that everyone in Russia had read the book.00:45:02
It turned out that I was wrong.00:45:05
He hadn't.00:45:06
But I still believe that every Russian has to read it.00:45:10
By the way...it affects the reader a lot.00:45:17
Do you remember the novel 'alive and shining'?00:45:20
I haven't read the Adventures of Dennis.00:45:22
You haven't?00:45:23
No.00:45:24
I don't believe you.00:45:27
I haven't read the book. Not because I want to match Illarion...00:45:32
You have not read the Adventures of Dennis.00:45:35
When I watched you attack him for me it looked like a mix of snobbery and shaming.00:45:44
You can't read all the books.00:45:48
Snobbery and shaming? What are you talking about?00:45:51
I can't understand how you two deprived yourself from such a joy in your childhood and your teenage years.00:46:00
I feel really sorry for you.00:46:06
There is no looking down or contempt. I swear.00:46:12
I feel like I ate cakes for all my life and found out that you didn't have any.00:46:21
I ate everything. This is how I feel.00:46:25
Shit. To you.00:46:31
In the rare interviews you gave after launching Nepozner you were asked why don't you argue with your guests.00:46:43
Yes.00:46:44
You said 'I'm a librarian. Not a journalist.'00:46:48
How long have you been a librarian?00:46:50
I studied being a librarian.00:46:52
How many years?00:46:53
I studied for seven years.00:46:55
Seven. How long have you been interviewing people?00:46:57
Including being a journalist on TV and on YouTube.00:47:02
Since 2010 - 13 years. 12, I mean. Why do I think it's 2023 now? 00:47:08
So you've been a journalist two times longer than you've been a librarian.00:47:11
But I've also been teaching. And working in a library.00:47:16
Yura, I don't become a journalist if I ask questions. It's about how I feel.00:47:25
I don't consider myself a journalist.00:47:28
I don't match the parameters of a journalist.00:47:36
You were right - I don't ask pointed questions.00:47:41
I don't talk about the agenda. I don't read the old interviews of my guests.00:47:52
My channel is a work of art. In terms of visuals and in terms of its meaning.00:48:02
It is more creative than journalistic.00:48:05
Don't you think this is a bad approach?00:48:07
I don't. This is my only life. And this is how I feel.00:48:12
Let's talk about a couple of cases.00:48:14
One of them is the episode with Alexandr Dugin.00:48:17
Yes.00:48:18
You were walking around ZIL for 90 minutes trying to find the exit as someone wrote in the comments.00:48:23
You were listening to him talking.00:48:28
Yes.00:48:29
And people who don't know anything about Dugin would think 'He's such a smart and interesting bearded man!'00:48:40
They would think so.00:48:42
And they wouldn't know that his views are almost fascist.00:48:51
Isn't it bad to make such an interview?00:48:58
It's not. There are tons of interviews where a viewers can see what you were talking about.00:49:09
There's you. You could talk with him about anything. I don't think he would decline it.00:49:19
And the most crucial - I talked to him about things I was interested in the most.00:49:24
I know everything about him. About his views and so on.00:49:29
I have my own hierarchy of what is interesting. And I wanted to show him the way I did it.00:49:39
Reflecting on Heidegger, Klava Coca, Little Big, Aristotle, Limonov, Letov.00:49:47
This is Dugin that is dear to me. I like this Dugin.00:49:51
I don't like the rest. And I don't talk about it.00:49:53
Ok. The interview with Vladimir Medinsky.00:49:57
My worst. I admit it.00:49:59
Why? What do you mean?00:50:00
I think he is more complex than I expected.00:50:04
And I came there with wrong expectations.00:50:08
Made a mistake with quoting Astafiev.00:50:13
I chose the wrong time to do it. I didn't do my homework properly.00:50:19
And I underestimated the minister of culture.00:50:24
My approach should have been more complex.00:50:28
Don't you care that he supports censorship?00:50:33
I don't want to talk about it for the tenth time.00:50:36
Wait a second. His thesis is very controversial.00:50:40
You know this. And I know it. I am not interesting in talking about it for the tenth time.00:50:44
He was asked about it a hundred times. And tens of essays were written about it.00:50:50
Fifty articles on Echo, Meduza, elsewhere.00:50:53
I don't want to be a part of choir. I want to sing my song alone.00:50:59
My song is my song. I will not be a part of choir.00:51:05
I will never do it with Medinsky, Dugin or anyone else.00:51:08
When you suggested to call Serebrennikov's father in the end...Wasn't it...00:51:15
Speculative?00:51:17
Humiliating.00:51:18
It was speculative and bad. It was a part of...00:51:23
What do you mean speculative?00:51:26
I shouldn't have done it. This was too...I don't know.00:51:31
I think it was...00:51:40
You know. I thought it was appropriate that time. Now I think it wasn't.00:51:49
I wouldn't be surprised if someone else did it.00:51:53
But you - correct me if I'm wrong - are coming from a family which is friends with Kirill Serebrennikov.00:51:58
Yes.00:51:59
And you know that the Ministry of Culture was a plaintiff.00:52:04
Wait. They accused him.00:52:06
You may have heard that Medinsky doesn't like Serebrennikov...00:52:12
And he was considered to be a proponent of the case.00:52:18
You come to him and after a thousand compliments you ask him to call Kirill's father?00:52:26
Don't you think it was humiliating for everyone?00:52:30
Maybe it was.00:52:32
This man was happy to punish Serebrennikov. And you asked him that.00:52:38
This reminded me of the Soviet times.
When people asked the Politburo authorities to help them without knowing that they were the initiators.00:52:49
I really worried about Kirill. Katya and her parents did a lot to help him.00:53:00
But I can't consider your assumptions as a fact.00:53:08
I've read a lot about Medinsky's role in this case.00:53:15
I've heard different theories, believe me.00:53:19
Some of them are public, some of them are not.00:53:24
But I can't say for sure that Medinsky was the initiator.00:53:29
Let me remind you that he agreed to make the call.00:53:36
He could have refused but he didn't.00:53:39
I don't work on a government channel and I didn't send him the list of questions in advance.00:53:50
I came as I were. Could ask him anything.00:53:55
This is how I felt. One more time - I think this episode was a failure.00:53:59
But the reasons are different from those you mentioned.00:54:04
I don't want to look like a master of interviews..00:54:09
You're a great master.00:54:11
We had lots of failures.00:54:13
We forgot to ask about the pyramids...00:54:18
We had an interview where the guest was prepared better than us.00:54:24
We failed a lot. Despite our weaknesses we still try to ask these questions.00:54:34
But when I watch your interviews I can tell that you are holding yourself from asking these questions.00:54:43
It's vulgar.00:54:44
And then you say you're a librarian.00:54:46
I don't want to look vulgar. I don't want to sing your song.00:54:51
I don't want to sing Katya's song. I don't know it. I can't do it.00:54:57
I sing my song. When I fail it means I wasn't confident enough or didn't find the right intonation.00:55:04
My biggest fear is becoming a part of the choir. I want to live my own life.00:55:09
I want to do it my way. I want to listen to my heart and not to you.00:55:14
You, anyone else. I don't want it.00:55:18
Are you okay if your way is sugarcoating life?00:55:22
I want it to be natural. I want to be honest to myself.00:55:31
I don't care about the reality.00:55:36
Can being honest to yourself be different from the reality?00:55:42
Of course, it can.00:55:47
Have you ever been addicted to anyone? Like an artist, a poet, a musician?00:55:52
Been so addicted that you started speaking like him? Or claimed his thoughts as yours?00:56:00
Had a crazy addiction.00:56:02
I think it unconsciously happened with my Tarakany band addiction.00:56:07
Did it?00:56:08
Yes. I didn't have the same thoughts...I did, though.00:56:12
I had this period. Did you?00:56:14
It happens all the time. It still happens but less than before.00:56:16
For example?00:56:17
Brodsky. Mamardashvili. Tarkovsky. Shmeman.00:56:23
Four names. Sokurov, too. Five people that made me think...00:56:32
'Kolya, you are not these people. You have to be yourself and not Brodsky, Tarkovsky...'00:56:38
You asked me this because we are shooting in front of one of Brodksy's favorite bars.00:56:46
It's his favorite bar. On Gianicolo hill.00:56:49
It's close to the American Academy where he worked.00:56:53
He was friends with them and stayed there a lot.00:56:58
He used to sit in this bar all the time. They have some plaques inside.00:57:04
He wrote one of his poems here.00:57:09
Here are the bees that didn't fly away and Garibaldi that stayed.00:57:13
It is one of his Rome poems.00:57:16
Why do you love him so much?00:57:18
I don't know. I think we are one of the last generations...I hate talking about generations.00:57:23
My student years were so great. The freshman year, especially.00:57:30
We were trying to get a book with Brodsky's interview.00:57:38
We didn't sleep at night and ran to the bookstore in Smolensk.00:57:43
We knew the book was there. Or they had Conversations with Joseph Brodsky by Volkov.00:57:48
Finding one of his books in a library was a big deal.00:57:53
There was no shame in reading Brodsky out loud...00:57:57
[Brodsky's poem]00:58:03
It was...I don't know if 20 year olds still get addicted to poetry.00:58:16
I think they got addicted to Oxxxymiron's poetry.00:58:18
Maybe he's a poet for them.00:58:21
For us it was Brodsky. And Dovlatov's novels.00:58:27
It was like a code word. If you read Brodsky...00:58:31
I know that many poets and literature experts hated it.00:58:40
They thought that worshiping Brodsky and copying him was tasteless.00:58:48
But now I think these were the great years. I read him less nowadays.00:58:54
And I see it differently. His Venice walks, for example. I read Solomon Volkov...00:59:00
[Solomon Volkov - a journalist, writer, Convesations with Brodsky author]00:59:01
It's different. But I am still attached to him. His poetry brought me up. Brodsky brought me up.00:59:10
The way he talked about Vivaldi in Venice...It's like a chain reaction.00:59:16
He talks about Vivaldi and now you want to listen to Vivaldi.00:59:19
You listen to Vivaldi with a new perspective.00:59:22
Or when he reads Baratynsky and you haven't read it.00:59:28
You go to a library where nobody has read Baratynsky for ten years.00:59:32
You start reading it and enjoying it.00:59:36
Yura, we are so lucky. I can't stop thinking why do we deserve this joy?00:59:44
Just look up.00:59:49
We're on Piazza Mattei.00:59:51
One of Brodsky's most famous poems was written here.00:59:58
[Brodsky's Piazza Mattei]01:00:11
This is how it goes.01:00:12
Is is about himself?01:00:14
Yes.01:00:15
He did have a girlfriend.01:00:16
He had a girlfriend Michelina. She lived in Rome.01:00:20
They had an affair but she left him for an earl.01:00:24
When he arrived in Rome...They didn't have cell phones back then.01:00:32
He came to her home and saw the earl there. She felt awkward and left.01:00:38
When she came back they were drinking together.01:00:40
She asked Joseph how did he like the earl.01:00:43
He said...01:00:47
The earl?01:00:48
No, Brodsky.01:00:49
'The earl asked me how did I like you'.01:00:52
'And I told him none of your fucking business'.01:00:57
But she left him for the earl. And he really had peacocks in his house. She fed them.01:01:04
Was he Italian?01:01:05
He was.01:01:06
Excuse me. I may have lied. This is how I remember this legend. It could have been different but not really.01:01:14
Sounds like you described the news on TV.01:01:18
Yes. A bit different. But not really.01:01:20
I'm not an intellectual and all I remember from this poem is 'doggy style'.01:01:27
Yes.01:01:28
So rude.01:01:29
It was appropriate. Unlike our colleagues who use this language on YouTube, this was appropriate.01:01:44
Sounds ok for me.01:01:46
I think he was the most influential Russian poet since Pushkin.01:01:54
I think that anyone between Pushkin and Brodsky was a bit lower.01:02:01
In terms of influence on their generation, on the way poems are written.01:02:10
Many great poets were copying Brodsky. Brodsky copied his style from the English tradition.01:02:20
He borrowed it from Auden, Years, Frost, John Donne and so on.01:02:26
He discovered English and American poets for us. And introduced this style into Russian poetry.01:02:33
How do you understand the poem about Ukraine?01:02:38
Do you mean On the Independence of Ukraine?01:02:40
Yes.01:02:41
It is very clear. It is quite imperialistic. In a good sense.01:02:46
In a good sense?01:02:47
Yes. I think he was more of a Republican than a Democrat.01:02:54
I've had a chance to have a dinner with Baryshnikov...01:02:59
[Mikhail Baryshnikov - a Soviet and American classical dancer, defected in Canada in 1974]01:03:00
It happened twice.01:03:01
Mikhail Baryshnikov does not talk to Russian journalists.01:03:03
Yes, it's true. But we had a dinner.01:03:07
He told me that Brodsky was more Republican than Democrat.01:03:12
Mikhail is a Democrat but they were still best friends.01:03:14
There is an imperialistic mood in this poem but he sure would not support bringing the Empire back now.01:03:30
I think he would be totally against it.01:03:33
Why did he write this poem then?01:03:35
It's a post-imperial trauma. He used to live in the Soviet Union and had a lot of different feelings.01:03:44
He was miserable and he was also happy there. Like everyone who lived in this big country.01:03:51
There were good things there, too.01:03:54
The end of the Soviet Union was a big stress for him.01:03:59
Not all Ukrainian politicians were great. They had some idiots, too.01:04:04
Same as in Russia or any other country. These people could offend Russia or someone else.01:04:13
So this was his emotional response.01:04:16
Can you explain the logic? This empire tried to destroy him, betrayed him...01:04:24
We know what they did to his parents...01:04:27
[Brodsky's parents filed the request to visit USA for twelve times and were rejected by USSR. Brodsky wasn't allowed to attend their funeral]01:04:28
And he still cared about the country.01:04:32
It's a complex feeling.01:04:35
He was like a violence victim.01:04:36
People are complex. You are complex. I've talked to you for a couple of days.01:04:42
I'll be clear - you are a complex person. You are not one-colored.01:04:47
I can't describe Yuri Dud in three words. He is complex.01:04:52
He is this, this and this.01:04:54
Despite the exile, the emigration and violence towards his parents...01:05:01
There were some parts of him which were nostalgic.01:05:08
He missed the good times that he had.01:05:12
When you look around you notice that the world is full of shit. Not only your country.01:05:18
It's true.01:05:19
There's shit everywhere. In the States, where he lived, and in Europe, where he spent some time. 01:05:24
Lots of shit. He did not publish the poem. And it was not included into his list of works.01:05:30
It is unofficial. But we know it. As they say, once a thing is written it is forever.01:05:47
I don't know how much they read here. But is is surely a last resort of paper books and newspaper.01:05:54
They read newspapers every morning in Italy. You can see it at any bar, especially in the province.01:06:02
The old men would read a newspaper. Not only the old men.01:06:07
You can look at it forever. Just like at this rapid of Tiber.01:06:11
I like Italy for it's love of paper.01:06:16
It's cool.01:06:18
I remember you moaning about people not reading books nowadays. Here are the statistics.01:06:23
[According to Bookmate, in big towns of Russia an average citizen reads 6.26 books in three months.
According to the official sociology, 53% of Russians read books.
Each of them has read five books in the last three months.]01:06:25
I'll show the Bookmate statistics that it's not true.01:06:31
People read a lot. And the books have huge circulation in Russia. It looks fine.01:06:37
In Europe they say that the paper books sales are increasing.01:06:42
I would look at it from different perspectives.01:06:44
First of all, what do they read?01:06:47
If we look at what people read - people in Russia read a lot of spirituality and psychoanalysis books.01:06:56
Rubbish. I'm an old grunt.01:07:02
I remember my parents standing in line at night to get the complete works of Dumas, Hugo and so on.01:07:09
I read it all. I would read all fifteen volumes.01:07:14
I miss those times. I miss the times when the kids library in Demidov was full of people.01:07:20
I miss their voices. I miss the times when your friends had books in their bathrooms.01:07:33
It was cool. People read on their devices now.01:07:40
The books are quite expensive.01:07:43
And for the new generation it is getting more difficult to read a long text every year.01:07:50
Can you find a young guy who read the complete works of James Hadley Chase by the age of twelve as I did?01:07:59
Fifty volumes. We had around fifty volumes.01:08:04
He was my parents' favorite thriller writer.01:08:07
Can you find a guy who read fifty fucking volumes?01:08:10
You can't, unfortunately. I miss it.01:08:16
Is reading books the same as being educated?01:08:18
Generally, yes.01:08:21
I think that reading broadens your horizons.01:08:28
It inflates the world for you. So yes, you become more educated.01:08:36
Is reading books the same as getting smart?01:08:39
I think there is causation. Reading books increases your chances to get smarter.01:08:51
If you don't read books there are less chances.01:08:54
Experience is important for sure. Working with your hands and just living your own life is also crucial for getting smart.01:09:06
But your chances are lower if you don't learn about the experience of others. I think so.01:09:17
Why do you respect Mikhail Piotrovsky so much?01:09:19
[Mikhail Piotrovsky - The Hermitage Director]01:09:20
Do you want to hear this story?01:09:22
When you are invited to an interview there are always some things you want to say there.01:09:33
I think I also have something to say.01:09:36
It is one of the stories I wanted to tell you.01:09:39
It will explain some things I've said before and will probably answer your next questions.01:09:45
I got into trouble when I was doing Dialogues in Saint Petersburg.01:09:49
Let's explain what happened there. 01:09:51
I can explain later.01:09:52
Let's do it now.01:09:54
Okay.01:09:55
You were doing Open Dialogues..01:09:56
Just Dialogues.01:09:57
Dialogues, yes. It was a great place where people with different views could meet...01:10:03
You were also there.01:10:04
Different views! This happens. And they talked.01:10:08
There were authorities, some of them really big, and they talked about important issues of the modern and past times.01:10:19
Then FSB got interested in the Dialogues and Kolya Solodnikov had to leave Russia.01:10:27
Tell us what happened, why you left and then came back.01:10:30
Should I tell what was happening or what I know now?01:10:34
Tell us what you know.01:10:36
Someone reported on me.01:10:39
It was a library employee, she does not work there anymore.01:10:44
She wrote an enormous amount of reports.01:10:48
She didn't like the Dialogues that we held.01:10:51
Why? Because there were opposition opinions there?01:10:54
There were people she didn't like. Maybe it was you, also. It doesn't matter, there were many kinds of people.01:10:58
From minister Medinsky to Victor Shenderovich.01:11:01
From Prokhanov to whatever...01:11:05
She didn't like all of it. She wrote several reports.01:11:10
So then the guys she wrote to finally arrived.01:11:14
They talked to the library manager and some other employees.01:11:21
These were all elderly women. They haven't seen such things for a long time.01:11:27
They got so frightened when those guys came...01:11:34
When they told me this I got scared for their health.01:11:45
They were so frightened I thought they could die because of it.01:11:53
I didn't want this.01:11:57
When I learnt about it I said we would no longer have Dialogues in the library.01:12:00
I've never said this before but I was really scared for these poor old women.01:12:10
I went to Riga. The kids were already there.01:12:15
[This was in the summer of 2016]01:12:16
I was really emotional because everyone was speaking about it.01:12:25
Three weeks after we left...Three weeks after...I calmed down..01:12:34
I realized I could treat it more calmly.01:12:42
I decided to continue making Dialogues and to come back.01:12:44
I felt really bad knowing I couldn't come back to my home country.01:12:54
Saint Petersburg was...I knew I had to come back.01:13:01
I started looking for a new place. I couldn't do it in Mayakovskaya library anymore.01:13:06
I had to find another place. I called all the people I knew in Saint Petersburg and Moscow...01:13:14
Who could provide their hall - state or private - for the Dialogues.01:13:21
And I got rejected by everyone. A hundred per cent.01:13:25
The reasoning was the same - Kolya, we don't need this trouble.01:13:31
And these were mostly liberal people.01:13:37
They write a lot on Facebook, participate in the protests...01:13:42
When it came to the real deal they all rejected me.01:13:46
I swear.01:13:48
The last person I called because I knew there was almost no chance was the Hermitage director Mikhail Piotrovsky.01:14:00
It is a state museum. What dialogues?01:14:04
Piotrovsky answered the call, said hello.01:14:08
I said good afternoon, Mikhail. Let me be clear.01:14:12
I want to come back to Saint Petersburg and hold Dialogues in the Hermitage. Can I do it?01:14:16
There was a five second pause. Then he said he needed fifteen minutes.01:14:20
Fifteen minutes later he called me back and said let's do it.01:14:24
What was going on with the case?01:14:25
As far as I know he only called Sokurov.01:14:32
You explained why you respect Piotrovsky.01:14:33
I did.01:14:34
Why didn't your opinion change after the embarrassing Faberge eggs scandal?01:14:42
I've read the article when it came out. It didn't affect me much.01:14:47
I knew it was much more complicated and controversial.01:14:52
Don't ask me about the details I can't remember it.01:14:56
This was quite a shallow article.01:14:59
There are pictures of the real Faberge eggs and those that were exhibited.01:15:03
Yura, I am not an expert in this topic.01:15:06
I am not trying to defend Mikhail now. He doesn't need it.01:15:13
The story that I told you outweighs everything for me. Forever.01:15:21
And let me be honest and clear - this Faberge eggs story did not affect me.01:15:32
I did not want to call Mikhail and say 'What happened? Do you need my support?'01:15:43
It didn't affect me at all. I didn't call him because of that.01:15:48
Can there be fake pieces in the Hermitage?01:15:51
I have no idea. I'm not an expert.01:15:54
Piotrovsky took part in the last elections as a member of Edinaya Rossiya.01:15:56
Yes.01:15:57
There were many violations in Saint Petersburg.01:16:04
Some people were assaulted at the polling stations.01:16:08
It wasn't Piotrovsky for sure.01:16:09
Piotrovsky didn't say a word about it as far as I know.01:16:14
Maybe.01:16:15
This does not affect you neither?01:16:18
Not at all.01:16:20
Being a member of a party that does this to the elections...01:16:27
I know that every day he serves the country more than any elections would do.01:16:35
Tell me what's more important.01:16:36
He's been running the number one museum in the country for many years.01:16:41
It is one of the biggest museums in the world.01:16:44
And the way he manages his employees, keeps the atmosphere friendly, keeps the collections...01:16:52
Keeps the Hermitage spirit in the city...01:16:54
It's an extremely difficult job.01:16:56
It's a huge ship that can be compared to a country.01:16:59
I think we can compare the President's job to the Hermitage director's.01:17:05
It's an extremely difficult job that he does every day.01:17:09
Straight posture, a suit and a scarf. Not very emotional. But the job is really hard.01:17:19
What the Hermitage means to Russia? Sokurov said it all in the Russian Ark.01:17:24
We are traveling around Rome while Russia announced the independence of DPR and LPR.01:17:31
Did you like it?01:17:32
I didn't.01:17:33
What do you think would save us from this decision - fair elections or...?01:17:41
Do you know that Mikhail Piotrovsky did not sign the paper for the Crimea accession?01:17:49
In your interview his said he was a Russian nobleman and he supported his government.01:17:56
No. He said that he didn't sign collective letters.01:17:59
He said clearly what he thinks about the Crimea annexation.01:18:03
I don't get why would you pretend it didn't happen.01:18:05
You said what you said. I said what I said.01:18:07
The same day I went on Echo and told them we were in a global game of chess.01:18:15
In this game I had to support my government and my authorities.01:18:22
We support them.01:18:24
Nowadays Russia is doing something really bad.01:18:32
It's bad.01:18:33
You didn't like it, too.01:18:34
I didn't.01:18:35
What do you think can preserve us from these mistakes?01:18:41
Fair elections which didn't happen in Saint Petersburg last year or the paintings in the Hermitage?01:18:56
If we talk about the society in general...01:19:00
What do you think?01:19:02
I think that we betrayed...We care too much about the politics and we don't care about culture anymore.01:19:10
We don't think about the Hermitage enough. We don't visit it quite often.01:19:15
We are too shallow.01:19:16
We were tempted by the politics and the elections and we forgot about culture and the Human.01:19:33
And the decision that was announced yesterday is the result.01:19:35
Because we don't visit the Hermitage?01:19:37
Yes, Yura.01:19:38
Not because we've had the same president for ages?01:19:40
No.01:19:41
What do you think about Piotrovsky's son?01:19:43
I know him. I've met him three or four times.01:19:47
We know each other names and shake hands when we meet. He's a nice guy.01:19:52
As far as I know he runs the Hermitage publisher.01:19:55
He's the vice governor already.01:19:57
Yes, he's the vice governor. Do you think he's a talented manager or he's just the son of Piotrovsky? 01:20:05
I think it's both. Both. Of course, being the son of the Hermitage director is an advantage.01:20:11
But he's a really nice pal. He's talented.01:20:14
I think he is definitely more talented than the ex-vice governor for culture.01:20:19
I don't even remember his last name. I think it was Kirillov.01:20:22
There is nothing to talk about really.01:20:25
There was a great ex-vice governor before Kirillov, his name is Vasily Kichegi.01:20:30
Borya is smart enough for this job. I know that he is helping a lot, it is not mentioned in the media, though.01:20:39
I know many guys who work in the museums and the books stores. And he's the kind of guy you can call and ask for help.01:20:47
He does important things for the city.01:20:49
Kolya, we've been talking about Piotrovsky for some time now. We talked about things that made you feel uncomfortable.01:21:00
Can you forgive Piotrovsky everything because he helped you when you were in trouble?01:21:07
It is not only because of me. It is important and that's why I told this story.01:21:16
I met him earlier. Katya told you this story.01:21:22
We were sitting around the campfire in the New Holland and were talking to him.01:21:27
I've met him on many occasions. I like how he serves the country.01:21:36
I think that this is how you serve your country. Like Piotrovsky and Sokurov.01:21:40
This is how you serve your homeland.01:21:43
You didn't answer my question. Can you forgive..?01:21:46
Can I? I owe him forever. This is how I feel. I will never leave him when he needs my help.01:21:57
Can I forgive him anything? I don't know the future. I hope nothing bad happens and I won't have to turn him down.01:22:06
Now I am thankful and fascinated by him.01:22:16
If we talk about when I well in love with a city after seeing it in a piece of art...01:22:22
I think it was the Great Beauty by Sorrentino.01:22:24
This is quite a recent movie.01:22:25
I think it is about ten years old.01:22:28
It was released in 2013.01:22:29
Ten years ago.01:22:30
As far as I know if we walk in that direction we will see a fountain from the opening scene.01:22:36
An asian tourist fainted there and died, I guess.01:22:43
I think he just fainted. I hope so. I don't want him to die.01:22:48
I wish.01:22:49
When I watched the Great Beauty I knew it was on of your favorite movies.01:22:56
And when he came to the guy who had the keys to all doors..01:23:01
I thought 'I wonder what Kolya felt when the doors were opened'.01:23:07
What did you feel?01:23:08
It's hard to explain. You see, all of my answers start with 'it's hard to explain'.01:23:14
I was fucking amazed. Fucking amazed.01:23:18
Katya brought me to Rome about ten years ago.01:23:22
There are no words to express what I felt...01:23:27
When I first saw San Pietro, Vatican...01:23:32
When we were walking from church to church and Katya said 'This is Caravaggio, this is Ghirlandaio...'01:23:42
All the things you can only see in Saint Petersburg if you live in Russia are all over the place here.01:23:49
They are at home here. They were created here for this city.01:23:56
This is why it looks so surprisingly natural.01:24:03
Cuisine! When you taste the Italian spaghetti alla gricia...01:24:10
You've asked me about crying. I've cried because the food was good, too.01:24:15
It happens. When I first tried Italian pasta I almost cried.01:24:22
I could not had imagined that food could be so delicious.01:24:26
And there would be no showing off. It would be a regular osteria with the paper cloth.01:24:35
The waiters would pay zero attention to you.
But you will never eat anything this delicious at the Michelin 3 star. Never.01:24:47
[Spoiler alert. Fast forward 30 seconds if you haven't watched the Great Beauty]01:24:54
Tell me what happened to Ramona?01:24:57
She died.01:24:58
It is not clear.01:25:01
There was no need to show...01:25:03
Did she die for sure?01:25:04
Yes, she died.01:25:05
Didn't leave. They said sorry to her dad.01:25:07
Yes. It was clear from one of the character's speech.01:25:13
He went to the funeral and so on.01:25:18
The Great Beauty is quite simple. I am a simple man in this sense.01:25:25
When the movie hits you in the heart...When the characters say things you were not able to articulate...01:25:33
It means this is your movie. The Great Beauty has so many quotes which hit me right in my heart...01:25:41
They leave me breathless. I've learnt this movie by heart.01:25:50
I've watched it so many times I memorized it.01:25:54
This movie is considered to be a remake of La Dolce Vita...01:25:58
No, I don't like it as much.01:26:01
I thing that time plays a major role here. The Great Beauty shows Rome of today.01:26:07
The city has changed since La Dolce Vita.01:26:10
Even Via Veneto is no longer the center of bohemian life.01:26:20
The bars and the hotels are empty now. Old Via Veneto is gone.01:26:26
How often do you think about death?01:26:27
All the time. Every day.01:26:29
Why?01:26:30
This is where it all begins. A human is born when he first thinks about death.01:26:36
A human being is born when he first realizes that he is going to die.01:26:42
When did it happen to you?01:26:44
In 2013 I made black wallpaper on my phone saying 'Kolya, remember about death'.01:26:52
I've lived with this text for a long time. The world around me was so crazy that I needed something to rely on.01:27:02
I needed something to preserve myself from falling apart. And I realized that thinking about death helped me.01:27:09
There is nothing more important than that.01:27:10
How do you think about it?01:27:12
Are you anxious?01:27:14
I think...01:27:16
Or calm?01:27:17
It changes. Sometimes I think about the seconds between life and death.01:27:24
Shmeman called it the mean time.01:27:27
[Alexander Shmeman - orthodox priest who lived in the USA, taught religious history and hosted a religious show on the radio for 30 years]01:27:29
Ten seconds when you are falling down from the tenth floor.01:27:33
What happens to you?01:27:35
It's a scary scenario. You can die suffering from pain. I think about it a lot.01:27:44
But I like to think about keeping myself composed.01:27:51
Death is an educational practice for all of us.01:27:57
You have no right to be a piece of shit.01:28:00
You will have to die, too. And what would be your last thought before going to heaven or to the emptiness?01:28:09
I don't know what's there.01:28:11
What are you going to feel? It can happen anytime.01:28:16
We can fall down and that's it.01:28:20
What does it have to do with not being a piece of shit?01:28:22
You can't die knowing you're a piece of shit.01:28:26
You can't die a scumbag. You can't die knowing you were not honest to your friends...01:28:30
That you didn't pay your debts and didn't love back.01:28:34
There will be no second chance.01:28:36
I thought a scumbag does not understand he is a piece of shit.01:28:40
But you have to remind yourself all the time.01:28:44
We forget about ourselves. It's easy to judge others.01:28:52
It's easy to judge their deeds. Their appearance.01:28:57
We need to look in the mirror more often. And to ask yourself who are you.01:29:01
Aren't you a piece of shit?01:29:05
In this sense, the politicians are useless. All they do is point at everyone. 01:29:13
Look at yourself.01:29:15
Why do you dislike Alexey Navalny?01:29:18
I've prepared for this question, too. As well as for the Piotrovsky question.01:29:24
Let me be clear - I want to say it out loud.01:29:28
Sure.01:29:29
Alexey Navalny is imprisoned now. I feel sorry for him, his family, his kids, his parents.01:29:38
I think he does not deserve to be imprisoned.01:29:42
The allegations - both the first and the second case - were absolutely fake.01:29:55
I disagree with it as a citizen and a human being.01:29:59
The new allegations are very very controversial.01:30:03
There is no doubt for me.01:30:05
I really feel sorry for him and care about him and his family.01:30:12
I dislike him as a politician. I would not vote for him at the elections.01:30:19
I am going to show the compilation of your best reactions to Navalny. 01:30:22
I've been too emotional.01:30:24
I don't like Navalny.01:30:26
Can you tell me why I feel like Meduza works for Navalny?01:30:33
As a reader I am sick of it.01:30:34
Vanya, to say the least. Putin isn't as rude with the journalists as Navalny.01:30:41
These are the same principles.01:30:43
We used to talk about it.01:30:44
Why?01:30:45
Because these are the good people. They possess the western liberal values in Russia.01:30:52
Navalny's supporters?01:30:54
You are not just emotional. It looks like you can't stand him. Your face changes.01:31:01
It happened.01:31:03
Have you tried to understand your reaction?01:31:05
It was before the assault.01:31:08
Yes, we are talking about the period before the assault.
You said that your attitude is different now.01:31:14
It is important. If we are talking about a politician that will be taking part in the elections some day...01:31:21
I am not going to vote for him.01:31:23
Okay. Why were you so annoyed?01:31:25
I don't like this type of politicians.01:31:29
What type?01:31:30
I don't like the leaders, don't like their language at the protests.01:31:37
I don't like his statements, some of his investigations before the assault.01:31:44
I have too many questions.01:31:46
Can you give an example?01:31:48
The main question is...We talked about it with Yulia Latynina. I asked her this question.01:31:55
One main question. How was it possible to film Prime Minister Medvedev's residence...01:32:07
From a drone? And make it so detailed as they did? How was it possible?01:32:19
Why not?01:32:20
You can't fly above the residence of the second person of the state.01:32:24
The security of the second person in the country is so strict that nothing can fly above his residence. Unless the security is informed.01:32:46
So what?01:32:48
That's it.01:32:49
What does it change?01:32:51
We know how it was done.01:32:53
How does it make the investigation worse?01:32:55
This investigation was crucial in terms of the audience.01:33:01
[FBK and Navalny's HQs are considered extremist and are prohibited in Russia]01:33:02
It was a video on Medvedev. How was it called?01:33:04
He's no Dimon for you.01:33:05
Yes.01:33:06
How does it change the facts shown in the video?01:33:08
It means he is not an honest politician. He is hiding something from us.01:33:13
Who let them shoot the video? How did they do it?01:33:17
Can you assume negligence?01:33:19
No way.01:33:20
There is no negligence in Russia, is it?01:33:21
There is, but not on this level.01:33:23
Are you sure?01:33:24
Yes. The security of the first and the second person is flawless. One hundred per cent sure.01:33:29
That's why they are hiding something.01:33:34
Including his release from the court. Remember when the prosecutor asked to release him?01:33:41
It was Kirovles case, 2013.01:33:43
Yes. What happened there?01:33:45
Have you seen the explanation our colleagues made?01:33:47
Which one?01:33:48
They said that somebody convinced Putin to release Navalny and let him fail at the elections.01:33:55
And he would lose his power as a politician.01:33:58
He was ought to face Sobyanin as a member of Putin's team and should have lost.01:34:05
After this he would deflate.01:34:09
I have my own explanation.01:34:10
Wait a second. According to the article, when this scenario did not happen...01:34:21
When Navalny got a lot of votes, the person who convinced Putin made Putin furious.01:34:32
I have another assumption. I think that someone eliminated two possible successors of Putin - Dmitry Medvedev and Sergey Sobyanin.01:34:40
Medvedev's rating crashed forever after the video and the protests..01:34:48
And Sobyanin...His opponent was able to get more than 20% of the votes.01:34:54
It means that Sobyanin is not strong enough to run for presidency.01:35:00
They eliminated two challengers by the means of Navalny.01:35:06
What is wrong about it?01:35:08
He knew what he was doing.01:35:09
Do you think he was a part of this conspiracy?01:35:11
I think he knew what he was doing.01:35:13
They had a mailbox for anonymous leaks. They could get the information from there.01:35:23
Many journalistic investigations are based on anonymous leaks.01:35:28
Your job is to find out if it's true and if it is important enough to publish.01:35:33
This is how democracy works.01:35:34
You asked me - 01:35:36
What is wrong? Knowing that you are part of the game?01:35:40
I think that Alexey Navalny knew that he as a part of the game.01:35:45
And he helped to eliminate possible successors.01:35:50
And then something happened - I don't know what.01:35:56
I didn't say enough about his style of speech.01:36:02
Okay, go ahead.01:36:04
He called people morons. And the things he said at the Chistye Prudy protests...01:36:11
What was it?01:36:12
I can't remember what year it was.01:36:14
It was 2011.01:36:16
Yes, 2011. He yelled 'morons!' I can't remember the full quote.01:36:22
So his style in general...I don't like shouting.01:36:30
It makes no sense. It's a red flag for me. I don't want shouting politicians.01:36:44
I want a politician, a leader of the opposition, that would be calm, smart, thinking but not shouting.01:36:51
I've read his election program when he ran for presidency.01:36:58
He wrote a program with the help of his supporters.01:37:01
I read it. And all the problems related to CIS countries, Caucasian region...01:37:10
Education issues, which are important for me, were not there.01:37:15
Culture, healthcare..I felt like he was not interested in all of those.01:37:21
I want it...01:37:22
Can you give an example?01:37:24
There was nothing about it. There was only one screen devoted to education.01:37:37
Three or four paragraphs.01:37:39
He never cared about education, culture and so on.01:37:49
I feel like he has no idea that it is important for the country...01:37:55
That these are the key areas of the country.01:37:57
We must think about it and talk about it.01:38:00
He had one goal and he did it.01:38:04
You had an interview with Revzin. He was criticized by the supporters of Navalny.01:38:11
You talked about Navalny a lot. He said that the investigations about Peskov's watch, Medvedev's winery and Shuvalov's corgi...01:38:20
Were the tabloid wars for the sake of class struggle.01:38:23
You agreed and said 'rob the robbers'.01:38:28
Then Revzin said 'What did we learn from Navalny's investigations?'01:38:31
And you say 'corgi...'01:38:33
Why are you so triggered by corgi and not the authority using taxpayers money to fly his dogs to the exhibition on a jet?01:38:45
Education and culture are more important for me than counting someone's fur coats and corgis.01:38:55
I think if you want to become the president of Russia it is shallow...01:39:05
To talk about crimes? Shallow?01:39:08
For a future president - yes.01:39:11
Yes. He needs to talk big. Culture, education, and so on.01:39:19
Human valuables, first of all.01:39:22
I think these are the main issues in our countries. And not the fur coats or the dogs.01:39:30
What did you see in Demidov when you came to visit your grandma?01:39:33
Since I left its' population has shrank three times. There is less than 6000 people there now.01:39:42
There is decay.01:39:44
A horrible decay.01:39:45
Do you thinks there is decay because of the culture issues or because of the corruption?01:39:53
First of all, there is decay because in the minds of our authorities
and our opposition culture, human and christian values don't mean anything.01:40:06
Anything at all. These people have no limits. 01:40:10
Only culture could stop them. Nothing else can stop them.01:40:16
Do think if the officials would read more books they wouldn't be corrupt?01:40:19
Sure.01:40:20
You've been to Norway, haven't you?01:40:22
Once.01:40:23
Have you seen the towns with similar population to Demidov?01:40:26
I have.01:40:27
Do they look this way because the officials in Norway read more books?01:40:33
First of all, their country is older than ours.01:40:35
Independent Norway is older than Russia.01:40:38
And secondly, they possess European cultural valuables.01:40:45
I think it's a part of their mentality.01:40:47
They are a part of a Scandinavian European world.01:40:55
In terms of culture.01:40:57
I don't know if they read more books..01:40:59
But in terms of keeping the traditions they are far beyond.01:41:06
There was an amazing dialogue in the interview with Nikolay Svanidze.01:41:09
Svanidze says 'Navalny threatens the officials. We need to threaten them because fearless power is the worst'.01:41:17
And you answered 'He threatens the officials and the officials threaten us'.01:41:27
Okay.01:41:29
Let's imagine a school. And there are some bullies who offend everyone.01:41:36
They make the studying process worse. Everyone suffers from it.01:41:46
Including you - a student who gets beaten up occasionally.01:41:50
Then the bravest guy appears. He's not the best but he's the bravest.01:41:56
He says 'Stop the bullying. You are mean people'.01:42:03
And the bullies start kicking everyone's ass. The brave guy, Kolya Solodnikov, and everyone else.01:42:11
What does Kolya Solodnikov do? He tells the brave guy 'why the hell you did that? we got more fucked because of you'.01:42:23
Don't you think it's what you told Nikolay Svanidze?01:42:25
No, I don't. I can explain.01:42:28
I think that Navalny took his place from other politicians.01:42:39
From people with other thoughts and other words. Politicians like Shlosberg...or Grigory Yavlinsky.01:42:49
We tend to choose the simplest decision.01:42:54
If we need an opposition leader, we need him to be rude to the officials.01:42:59
I strongly disagree with it. I think if the officials are loud we need to be quiet.01:43:06
A quiet voice easier to hear. If there is a trend to oversimplify everything, including culture...01:43:17
And the politicians are straight-forward...Protests, shouting...01:43:23
Make an investigation..I think that politicians should be more complex.01:43:28
Politics should be hard to understand for the majority.01:43:37
And people should get interested in this complexity.01:43:40
Navalny simplified everything instead of complicating.01:43:44
You need to speak quietly when you want to shout.01:43:51
Let's clarify what is happening today. Vladimir Putin is addressing the nation right now.01:43:58
We haven't watched it to the end.01:43:59
[On February 21 Putin announced the independence of DPR and LPR]01:44:00
Have you ever thought that the war is around the corner?01:44:03
Not particularly this year.01:44:07
This year I've felt it many times. But I've never believed in it fully.01:44:12
I can't understand it. I've never been to a war.01:44:21
My only military experience was studying in a rocket artillery college.01:44:28
This is quite a lot of experience.01:44:30
I'm proud of it. I've read many books about the war by the authors who had been to a war.01:44:38
These books were honest. And for me war is absolute evil.01:44:49
I have no other words to describe it. I've talked to the veterans..01:44:54
Of the wars in ex-Soviet countries before or after 1991.01:45:01
There is nothing romantic or heroic about the war. Nothing.01:45:06
This is horror, pain, fear and disaster. Endless disaster.01:45:13
What are the honest books about war?01:45:15
I highly recommend the book by Nikolay Nikulin..01:45:19
Who had served as a private from 1941 to 1945.01:45:24
He used to be the Hermitage employee.01:45:26
Later he became a head of the Northern Renaissance department.01:45:30
I know that Andrey Zvyagintsev loves this book, too.01:45:36
As well as Mikhail Piotrovsky who helped to reissue the book several times.01:45:39
These are one of the most honest and horrifying memories of the war. 01:45:43
Unvarnished. Everything explained there.01:45:47
About the role of the private soldiers, how they were treated, and the way humans were treated.01:45:54
About some officers acts. Sometimes heroic, sometimes not.01:46:02
This book is about a man on a war.01:46:07
The books by Victor Astafiev and his interviews..01:46:13
This man fought to Berlin. He lost his eye. He was heavily wounded.01:46:20
Go watch his interviews. If you still doubt that war is bad..01:46:28
You'll never want to go to war after watching it.01:46:31
You will do all you can to prevent it.01:46:37
Haven't Putin read those books?01:46:39
I think he knows the authors but these books are not the most important for him.01:46:44
Unfortunately. For me this books are defining for my views.01:46:54
I'm editing the interview and it feels scary.01:46:57
I look at us sitting in Greco the day so called DPR and LPR were announced independent.01:47:08
We look scared but we don't believe that the war is around the corner.01:47:16
We know that something horrible is happening but we can't believe it.01:47:24
Two days later the hell broke loose.01:47:28
This is really hard to edit. It's like a time machine.01:47:34
Same as you - I didn't believe until February 24 that it could happen.01:47:41
For me it's...01:47:43
However, people that I look up to had been saying for the last eight years that something scary was about to happen.01:47:58
Something really bad was coming.01:48:03
I listened to them and forgot about it the next hour.01:48:09
I didn't think about it. But the smart people did.01:48:13
Can you name these people?01:48:15
Sokurov, Yavlinsky.01:48:17
They said the war was unavoidable?01:48:21
Yes, it's what they said.01:48:23
Sokurov said this in 2007.01:48:24
In 2007?01:48:25
Yes, 2007. On his famous event. You can look it up on YouTube.01:48:31
It was an evening with Sokurov show. He said the war with Ukraine was unavoidable.01:48:38
And also huge problems with Kazakhstan.01:48:42
It's too early to talk about China but it is unavoidable, too.01:48:53
He predicted it in 2007.01:48:55
[We are going to face wars on the south. We will have a heavy war with Ukraine and a conflict with Kazakhstan, probably, too]01:49:02
How long have you served in the military?01:49:05
For three years.01:49:06
Three years. Suvorov cadet school?01:49:08
Rocket artillery college.01:49:10
Was it like a high school?01:49:12
Same as Suvorov school but rocket artillery.01:49:17
Was it after school?01:49:18
After the eight form.01:49:20
Got it.01:49:21
Ninth, tenth, eleventh form.01:49:22
Did you understand anything about the military service?01:49:25
The main thing I learnt..I went there in 1997.01:49:31
It's been 26 years. Twenty...01:49:33
Five.01:49:34
Twenty five years.01:49:38
I worship the officers as a class.01:49:43
Of course, there are good people and bad people.01:49:45
But overall I am proud of them.01:49:53
We had amazing officers. Smart, just...01:50:02
I respect the officers very much.01:50:04
What are you proud of?01:50:06
I am proud of the past. I have no right...01:50:13
When we talked about the war memories..01:50:15
I've never been to a war. And I have no right to talk about it.01:50:20
You know, order is very important for me.01:50:26
There is so much chaos in the world that people who try to be disciplined in their field..01:50:40
I respect them very much.01:50:42
Responsibility is another important feature for me.01:50:44
I admire responsibility. Keep your promise.01:50:50
Do it if you promised.01:50:53
Responsibility and discipline. From specific to general.01:50:57
This is what makes me proud.01:51:00
For me as a civilian it has always been weird that you have to obey an order..01:51:09
I'm not saying you don't have to..01:51:11
It would not work otherwise..01:51:16
I just think what kind of people would choose this job.01:51:22
Even if your commander is a fool..01:51:25
I wasn't ready for it so I quit.01:51:27
Huh. Tell me what you felt.01:51:30
Yura, that is why not all people are priests. But some are.01:51:36
They are ready to tolerate their stupid bosses to serve Christ.01:51:42
Do you mean the guys with the Mercedes cars and yachts?01:51:44
There are different priests. Like the officers.01:51:46
I mean their bosses.01:51:48
Some of them don't have a Mercedes but are fools.01:51:51
Some of them own a Mercedes but are intelligent people.01:51:53
They are different. Just like the officers.01:51:55
But if you want to serve, you go to the church and serve.01:52:00
If you want to serve your homeland, you go to the military.01:52:02
The officers are different. It's the same for the libraries.01:52:07
There are good directors and bad directors.01:52:09
Journalism - how many dumb editors in chief do we know?01:52:15
If you are good at your job - you can find another channel and still have an idiot boss.01:52:22
It's the same everywhere.01:52:25
When did you understand you didn't want to become an officer?01:52:27
Three months before graduation.01:52:31
What happened?01:52:32
I missed my friends, missed heavy music, long hair.01:52:39
I used to wear earrings.01:52:42
I noticed the spots and was surprised.01:52:46
I've had earrings for a long time. My kids ask me to put them on.01:52:51
I can wear earrings in the summer. In both ears. I was a metalhead.01:52:57
I missed it a lot.01:53:00
And I was sick on the last year. I think it was puberty, too.01:53:05
Puberty?01:53:06
Yes. I said I'm done and left. Three months before graduation.01:53:11
I don't know what my parents felt. This is so fucked up.01:53:14
What bands did you listen to?01:53:16
Black metal, death metal, doom.01:53:19
What bands?01:53:20
Amorphis, Paradise Lost, Sepultura, Burzum..01:53:25
Crematory, Napalm Death. All of it.01:53:29
Everything that was published in the RockCor magazine.01:53:33
In the interview with Mikhail Kozyrev you said you hated Aria.01:53:38
Is that because they are Iron Maiden copycats?01:53:41
I considered Iron Maiden pop, too.01:53:44
They had a ballad that we liked to play at the disco.01:53:48
I can't remember the name of this song. Aria had their version of it, too, I guess.01:53:54
Iron Maiden is too poppy for me.01:53:56
I liked really heavy stuff.01:53:58
Why didn't you like Aria? Because of their sound?01:54:00
Too poppy for me.01:54:02
Too poppy?01:54:03
Yes. I like it really heavy.01:54:05
Is it bad being poppy?01:54:07
No. There are great pop artists.01:54:09
But in general I think that pop culture is dangerous.01:54:17
It happened already. Pop culture won.01:54:22
That's why people watch our shows and not Yuri Lotman.01:54:28
[Yuri Lotman - a literature expert. Conversations on Russian Culture author]01:54:30
You are pop too, then.01:54:32
Sure.01:54:33
Definitely. Unfortunately.01:54:36
We won and it is a problem.01:54:39
It is where we lost. We won but we lost.01:54:45
People who deserve to be the real starts and get everything that we have now..01:54:52
Being recognized in the streets, all the 'thank you' messages and so on..01:55:01
Other people deserve this. Not me and you.01:55:04
Who?01:55:05
Among the living?01:55:06
Yes.01:55:07
Most of our guests. Them.01:55:12
I am very jealous of you in one aspect.01:55:14
You got a chance to meet General Aushev.01:55:19
I did.01:55:20
I think he is a true Russian officer.01:55:21
I know what you are talking about.01:55:26
But many our viewers will also watch the Security Council session.01:55:35
They would say 'Kolya, what the hell are you talking about?'01:55:38
There are different officers, Yura.01:55:40
These officers rule the country.01:55:43
Unfortunately.01:55:45
Okay.01:55:46
Of course I wish that everyone in the Security Council was replaced with Ruslan Aushev.01:55:53
I dream of it. With people like him.01:55:57
Conscious and honest people.01:56:00
Don't you think that the media and politics work...01:56:05
In a such way that there is no place for Aushev?01:56:07
No. It comes from the above. I don't want to say that fish rots from the head.01:56:13
It's trite. But it hardly ever happens when non true Russian officers rule the country..01:56:27
And it does not spread on the whole system.01:56:34
They make it all dysfunctional.01:56:37
They can't poison everyone. I don't know for sure.01:56:40
Evgenia Albats told me that Kudrin, who is the head of the Auditing Chamber..01:56:47
Is a wonderful person. This was said by Evgenia Albats, who is an ultra liberal.01:56:52
I don't know Kudrin personally. I've met him once. But I believe her.01:56:57
I believe there are noble people there.01:57:00
But watching the Security Council session..01:57:05
I can't argue with you.01:57:09
I wish that the good people who are doing their job would some day sit in the Council.01:57:23
You've praised Russian officers.01:57:28
I have.01:57:29
Has your attitude changed in the last three months?01:57:36
Generally..I we don't talk about what is happening today - no.01:57:44
I knew you would ask me this.01:57:48
I can pretend to be whoever I want but I am still a cadet of the rocket artillery.01:57:58
I dream about it a lot and I think about it a lot.01:58:02
I'm just a kid from Smolensk who came to Saint Petersburg..01:58:06
And whose life dramatically changed. There's no way back.01:58:13
So generally - no.01:58:17
Sometimes I feel the shame. It's unbearable.01:58:22
It happens a lot nowadays.01:58:24
But can I cancel my opinion on what a true officer is?01:58:34
On what they were. Or what they will be. I can't.01:58:38
One of my sons goes to Suvorov school.
I believe that he will become a great officer if he wants to.01:58:48
The cities of our neighbor. Cities, where our relatives lived. These cities are getting destroyed.01:58:58
Yes.01:58:59
People are dying. There are war crimes taking place in some of the cities.01:59:05
People are being tortured.01:59:10
The last thing I am going to do is to blame all the officers.01:59:19
I will never do this in my life.01:59:22
I am convinced that the majority of the officers don't break the rules of war.01:59:29
Are there scumbags among the officers? Sure.01:59:35
Just like in every fighting army. In every army.01:59:40
Speaking about the war crimes. I'm sure we will see..In Russia, Ukraine or some other country..01:59:54
We will see a fair trial. And all the evidence - video, photo, witnesses - will be used to punish those who are to blame.02:00:10
It's what I believe in.02:00:17
He's an outstanding artist.02:00:19
Artist?02:00:21
An artist and a director. I think that Life is Beautiful..02:00:27
Which he directed and starred in, was an amazing movie. Our kids have watched it, too.02:00:34
Have they?02:00:36
Yes, it's outstanding.02:00:37
I also like one of his less known works - the role in Woody Allen's to Rome with Love.02:00:44
In Russia it's called the Roman Adventures.02:00:45
Right, adventures. He played a man who suddenly became famous.02:00:51
He was great in it.02:00:53
Have you heard Anton Dolin's opinion that you can't talk about concentration camps in this manner?02:01:04
What do you think about it?02:01:14
I'm picking my words.02:01:19
I think Anton Dolin realizes he's wrong sometimes.02:01:22
His opinion is not the only one in the world.02:01:29
I strongly disagree with this opinion.02:01:32
Do you remember what you felt after watching Life is Beautiful?02:01:36
Did you cry?02:01:37
Of course, I did! How can you not cry? It's like Hachi.02:01:40
I'm sorry for comparing these two movies.02:01:44
They activate those mechanisms that make you cry.02:01:52
It is made this way.02:01:58
I think Anton Dolin cried, too.02:02:01
And the next day he thought 'I won't praise the movie as everyone did. I'll say it's shitty'.02:02:10
He didn't say it was shitty.02:02:12
I'm joking. We are friends with Anton he won't get offended, I hope.02:02:17
What was the most surprising question your kids asked you?02:02:20
I think Katya told you about Gosha reading the historic magazine.02:02:24
He read the cover 'Lenin: a blessing or a curse?'02:02:30
Gosha went to the toilet, read the magazine there.02:02:34
I didn't know about that. We were having a walk when he said..02:02:36
'Hey daddy! Was Lenin a blessing or the curse?'02:02:41
This was funny. Other from that, nothing interesting.02:02:45
Gosha reads a lot. He reads everything. He's very curious.02:02:52
Sasha is into girly things. Yasha and Liza are too young.02:02:58
Was Lenin a blessing or a curse?02:03:02
He was definitely a curse.02:03:03
This is the yard.02:03:05
Yes.02:03:06
It's right there. Behind the grid which is closed.02:03:08
We are lucky they let us here.02:03:10
This is the yard where the Roman Holiday was filmed.02:03:16
This is where Gregory Peck lived. His flat was here.02:03:19
He brought Audrey here and she slept here.02:03:24
This is his home.02:03:26
Wow.02:03:27
Katya found out that this flat was on sale recently.02:03:32
This is a dream flat.02:03:36
Spoiler alert02:03:38
[If you haven't watched the Roman Holiday fast forward for a minute]02:03:43
What did you think about the ending? That they were not together?02:03:46
I don't know. I didn't think about that. It's an open ending for me.02:03:51
She could came home and then came back to Rome.02:03:57
I don't know. I like the finale.02:03:59
It's great! It's not like every other rom-com. Together forever.02:04:04
There is something beautiful in this. They don't make movies like these anymore.02:04:12
Nobody writes like this.02:04:13
I think there is a review by Zelvensky on Kinopoisk. I can't recall it.02:04:19
[Whyler proved that a rom-com does not need a happy ending. The characters are grateful for one happy day and the viewer - for two happy hours]02:04:21
He said that this movies proves there is no need in the happy ending if the movie itself was wonderful.02:04:30
I agree.02:04:31
This is the best way to describe it.02:04:34
Maybe what we considered a happy ending was not a happy ending.02:04:37
Maybe this was the real happy ending.02:04:51
It will wash you away. It will wash me away.02:04:56
It will wash everyone away.02:05:02
It is mesmerizing.02:05:08
Why do you love Andrey Tarkovsky so much?02:05:15
I just opened my eyes. I'd been trying to understand him.02:05:20
Just like you I'd been wondering about it.02:05:22
I didn't see anything. I can't say I didn't understand.02:05:28
I didn't see. And then..02:05:31
The Mirror..I understood everything.02:05:33
Maybe it was about me. I think that what was happening in my life made me see it.02:05:39
You have some shocks in your life.
When you love a woman, when you have kids, when you think about life and death..02:05:51
I don't know. You look at the paintings you've seen a thousand times and feel like you are seeing it for the first time.02:05:57
Same with Tarkovsky. I understood everything.02:06:00
I felt like he was my soulmate.02:06:03
He also worried about life and death, memories, roots, family.02:06:10
It was as important for him as it is now for me.02:06:13
It was Mirror first. And then the rest.02:06:16
Mirror is a special one.02:06:18
It is..Ninety minutes of uncompromising self-reflection.02:06:29
Thinking about yourself and your family. About your place in humanity.02:06:36
I was impressed by how honest it was.02:06:40
This is as brave as being in a frontline.02:06:45
You don't think about it. You go forward and nobody knows what is ahead.02:06:53
Shooting such a movie..It's not about the seventies..Even now..02:06:58
There is no artist that is so honest about himself.02:07:04
Not about others. About himself. About his mom, his wife, himself.02:07:08
About his dad..I don't know anyone like him.02:07:12
He was insanely brave. I kneel at him.02:07:18
You have an interview with his son who lives a couple of hours away form here in Florence..02:07:26
He keeps all the memories and runs the foundation.02:07:31
Tarkovsky used to work abroad and he refused to come back to the Soviet Union.02:07:36
His son was waiting for him, he was about eleven years old.02:07:42
Yes, he was a young guy.02:07:43
He was a young guy. I think it was four years..02:07:48
No, it was 1.5 years. They haven't met in over a year.02:07:52
Let's snap and see the exact number.02:07:56
[Tarkovsky had not seen his son from March 1982 til January 1986]02:07:57
I think it was longer.02:07:58
This was a lot. A lot.02:08:00
He refused to come back to the USSR with his wife and their son was at home.02:08:05
You asked his son, who is about fifty years old now..02:08:09
'Did you understand him? Didn't you think he betrayed you?'02:08:14
He said he understood it back then.02:08:18
Between work and family an artist has to choose work.02:08:27
I don't know.02:08:28
What do you think?02:08:29
I don't know. It's tough.02:08:32
Could you do it?02:08:33
I think I could not.02:08:34
You would come back.02:08:35
I would come back to my kids. I'm sure about that.02:08:41
I could not have done this.02:08:43
It is surprising for me, too. It is impossible for me.02:08:54
They did not know if they would meet him later.02:09:01
They stayed in Europe. Their son was at home with his grandma.02:09:05
There was no guarantee their son would join them.02:09:10
This could go for four, five, ten years.02:09:13
He could have died earlier.02:09:14
When his son came over Andrey already had cancer.02:09:17
He had cancer.02:09:18
He died a few months later. He could had died earlier.02:09:22
He died a year later.02:09:24
He could had died before his son came. It was his choice.02:09:29
I cannot judge him. But I could not had done it.02:09:32
Can you remind why he didn't come back?02:09:34
He didn't come back because he could not work in the USSR anymore.02:09:40
He wanted to work in Europe. And he thought there were more possibilities for him to do what he wanted here.02:09:47
He was sick of it. Of all the bureaucracy, all the censorship.02:09:56
He could still work in the USSR. You know how he remade the Stalker.02:10:03
He spent a lot of money for the Soviet Union times.02:10:06
It cost a lot to shoot it once again. And they let him do it.02:10:09
But he got sick of it. Sick of that reality. He got sick.02:10:22
Can you explain for those who struggle watching the Russian Ark, Moloch, and so on..02:10:31
What makes Alexander Sokurov a great director?02:10:33
We know what makes him a great citizen.02:10:36
What about being a director?02:10:37
He is very original. He is honest in his art.02:10:45
And he is a perfectionist. He only does it like he wants.02:10:47
It is the best example of non-mass culture.
And he is a perfectionist. He only does it like he wants.02:10:49
It is the best example of non-mass culture.02:10:54
I got struck by the Russian Ark.02:10:58
In the beginning of 2000's I lived in a communal flat in Saint Petersburg.02:11:03
I got a DVD with the movie. I turned it on and I still remember the scenes.02:11:07
When Dreiden walks on the Rafael's station. 02:11:16
It is electric. And Nikolay's daughters flying like angels.02:11:25
And the finale where he says..02:11:29
'I am so sorry you are not here. Sea around us.
We will sail forever. We will live forever.'02:11:36
And the music. You just feel Saint Petersburg.02:11:44
You feel Russia and its culture.02:11:47
This was how I discovered Sokurov.02:11:49
There are still movies that I struggle to watch.02:11:53
I really make myself watch them.02:11:56
If you want to watch Sokurov's movies - do it before lunch.02:12:00
In the morning..02:12:02
You are full of energy.02:12:03
Yes, full of energy. When you haven't spent your emotions for the day.02:12:07
Turn it on at eleven in the morning and it will feel better.02:12:10
Later it would be too hard physically.02:12:13
Watching five episodes of Confession about the guys from the Navy is a big challenge.02:12:21
Spiritual voices - four or five episodes.02:12:24
In the first episode a camera shows a landscape and there's Mozart's 21 Concert playing in the background.02:12:35
And for forty minutes you are watching this ltime lapse video of the landscape. Morning, afternoon, evening.02:12:42
How can you describe it?02:12:46
All forty minutes?02:12:47
Or maybe fifty minutes. One landscape. And the narrator telling about Mozart.02:12:52
Sokurov's voice. 02:12:54
You know, it looks like the classic example of independent cinematography.02:12:59
But nothing made my heart go faster than this episode.02:13:08
Or the documentary about Rostropovich and Vishnevskaya where he shows the rehearsal in Europe.02:13:16
Seiji Ozawa was the conductor and Rostropovich was playing.02:13:19
Sokurov showed the faces of the audience - kids and adults - who came to see the rehearsals.02:13:26
And Sokurov says 'Look at these faces. Europeans. Not God's servants but his creatures'.02:13:35
He says it in a way that these words mean something.02:13:41
Was this a sarcasm?02:13:42
It wasn't.02:13:43
What is sarcastic about it?02:13:47
Aren't Europeans God's servants?02:13:48
Not in the orthodox way. Sokurov emphasizes that the Catholic tradition is more about a human being..02:14:01
His character..than the orthodox tradition where the words 'God's servant' is used more.02:14:10
Let's not dive deep into it. From the way it sounds you can say how much he loves these people.02:14:22
Europeans.02:14:23
Yes, Europeans.02:14:25
Or in the Russian Ark when the camera is following Dreiden..02:14:31
Music is playing, it's in the Hermitage.02:14:34
And he says 'Europeans playing. Italians'.02:14:37
There's so much love.02:14:39
How did you answer the question 'What am I going to do now?'02:14:42
The same people helped me. It was Sokurov.02:14:46
I was lost and confused. I told you what I felt a minute ago.02:14:51
I called him and asked him what do I do. What do we do.02:14:55
He assured me we should go on doing what we were doing.02:15:00
Do what we are good at.02:15:03
We need to survive. We need to stay human. Be a human who is capable of doing something.02:15:13
Bring something to this world.02:15:18
These words were very important for me.02:15:20
I want my faith to survive at these difficult times.02:15:27
My faith should grow.02:15:29
I feel better now. I went on doing my job.02:15:34
On your episode with Sokurov you turned on Monetochka's song the Broken Ark.02:15:38
I regret it.02:15:39
Why?02:15:40
It was my first or second episode. I would not have done it now.02:15:43
I dream of making another episode with Sokurov.02:15:47
Was it rushed?02:15:48
I was inexperienced, I looked at you.02:15:52
I made a mistake. I wanted to borrow some of your skills to add an edge to it.02:15:59
It was dumb. I did for some reason but now I would never have done it again.02:16:04
I've been trying to convince him to do another episode but he refuses.02:16:09
When Monetochka released a track about the wildfires with great lyrics about..02:16:16
He texted me..02:16:18
What was it?02:16:19
He texted me 'I feel guilty for not appreciating this wonderful girl'02:16:24
When he heard 'The land of Yesenin ran out of artists'.02:16:26
Yes, he texted me and asked to find her phone number.02:16:30
I sent it to him. He felt guilty for not appreciating her music in the interview.02:16:38
Were you surprised that he called her?02:16:39
Not at all. This is Sokurov. He's a true gentleman.02:16:43
I would like to be just as loving and responsible as him.02:16:50
He does not like to offend people.02:16:54
You said he didn't want to make another episode.02:16:56
But after the war began he agreed to do it.02:16:59
Did it make you feel better?02:17:00
It did. I feel a lot lot lot lot better.02:17:04
I am not as smart as him.02:17:06
I am not as wise. I am not as broad minded.02:17:12
I am looking at the world from the bottom of the mountain and he is doing it from the top.02:17:21
I wish to make my view broader.02:17:29
In terms of asking questions, too.02:17:31
I feel much better now.02:17:36
When I met Kleiman, Norshtein and Uminsky..02:17:39
I wish others had a chance to hear these people sometimes.02:17:50
I want people to see them, hear them, be closer to them.02:17:55
This is what I dream of.02:17:57
I think we are facing a generation of reckless politicians.02:18:04
Not smart, poorly mannered, poorly educated..02:18:10
It's a global issue. It's not about Russia only. It's about Ukraine and Europe, too.02:18:17
Human values mean nothing for them.02:18:21
Culture means nothing for them.02:18:23
It really does. They don't care about it at all.02:18:25
It is not in their blood.02:18:27
This is how we got here.02:18:30
New frontiers, new wars. It's a new generation.02:18:34
One of the great directors Efros, who was a father of Dmitry Krymov, called them..02:18:38
White-eyed Komsomol members. He said when they grow up we will suffer.02:18:46
Didn't frau Merkel care about human values?02:18:49
Frau Merkel was the last big politician in Europe.02:18:53
In Germany late night show hosts explained why the Syrian refugees were people, too.02:19:00
She called the dictator in Belarus to solve the migrants crisis.02:19:09
Yura, to Merkel. For me she was the last great politician in Europe.02:19:12
I felt said when she left. Like the majority of Germans.02:19:18
Speaking about culture - do you remember how she left?02:19:20
Nina Hagen.02:19:23
A German punk artist.02:19:24
Merkel was an outstanding politician.02:19:26
I felt scared. I felt like the last big politician was leaving.02:19:33
Only Komsomol members are left.02:19:36
Has your opinion on her changed in the last three months?02:19:39
There are talks about her effectiveness in Germany now.02:19:45
They say she was too soft with Putin after the Crimea crisis.02:19:51
I think the opposite. It's not what I think it's a fact.02:19:57
There was no war while she was the Chancellor.02:20:01
That's it.02:20:04
This is how big she was. This is what a big politician is.02:20:08
There was no war while she was a Chancellor.02:20:11
But they made a gas tube that sponsors this war.02:20:16
These small details are not that..02:20:18
Details?02:20:19
I'll leave it to the people who don't make decisions like this.02:20:30
The decision to start a war wasn't made while she was a Chancellor.02:20:36
All the people who are dead now. All the kids, all the women..02:20:41
All the houses that were ruined..02:20:43
All the horror that happened in the last three months..02:20:46
Didn't start while she was a Chancellor.02:20:48
It's a simple fact.02:20:50
What was her role in it? I don't know. I don't know.02:20:58
Can you recall the most touching, disgusting, or unusual feedback that you got to Eshenepozner?02:21:10
Do you mean the feedback from the viewers?02:21:12
From anyone.02:21:13
Any reaction..02:21:15
I can tell you what comes to mind first.02:21:17
I've had more than a hundred guests now. About 150.02:21:27
And none of them was let down.02:21:31
None.02:21:33
Some of them call me back.02:21:38
The call me back after they watch the new episodes.02:21:42
There are two of them. It feels so good that they watch the show.02:21:49
These are Tatiana Chernigovskaya..02:21:51
She always finds the right words..02:21:53
And Naum Kleiman.02:21:56
I feel like I don't deserve their praise but it feels very nice.02:22:00
The interview with Naum Kleiman is definitely worth watching.02:22:07
It is one of my favorite episodes of yours.02:22:12
It broke my heart when he talked about his childhood.02:22:16
How his family was deported and so on.02:22:19
There was an amazing piece about forever and eternally.02:22:26
Eternity will fail.02:22:28
Yes. I remember it well.02:22:33
He said they think they are eternal.02:22:36
I wanted to hear more. I listened to it in the breaks between the news reports.02:22:44
It gave me a lot of motivation to keep going. Respect to Naum Kleiman.02:22:52
To Naum Kleiman.02:22:56
In the last three months your wife has become a number one reporter on YouTube.02:23:02
How is your family dealing with it?02:23:04
Tell Gordeeva is the main show on Russian YouTube now.02:23:08
We let our mom work.02:23:13
She works a lot. I don't see her often.02:23:16
She is traveling a lot.02:23:19
Even when she's home she has to edit the videos and do a lot of work.02:23:27
I am amazed by her work. I made the right choice.02:23:31
She's the best wife on Earth.02:23:34
She's an outstanding person. I've always said that.02:23:37
What is your favorite episode in the last three months?02:23:43
For many years I've been impressed..From the very beginning I've been impressed by Svetlana Sorokina.02:23:51
She's an incredible woman. Incredible. So beautiful. So intelligent.02:24:01
It seems like they don't make people like these anymore.02:24:05
Like she has gone from some painting. Incredible.02:24:11
Right.02:24:12
Every time she appears somewhere..It's rare. I'm so happy she agreed to talk to Katya.02:24:20
It was the right choice.02:24:22
She is a miracle of a woman. Svetlana, if you are watching this..02:24:28
I am amazed by you.02:24:31
You said your views are often different from Katya's views.02:24:33
Can you give an example?02:24:36
Katya is an ultra liberal person.02:24:38
How would you describe yourself?02:24:43
I am a statesman. A statesman.02:24:47
Who is a statesman?02:24:49
My country means a lot for me. The state.02:24:52
We talked about Russian officers before.02:24:56
About how you serve your country.02:24:58
There can be different officials. But you serve your country anyway.02:25:01
You serve your flag. You serve the Hermitage.02:25:03
It is crucial for me. I am a statesman.02:25:06
I don't like to talk bad about my country.02:25:11
If your country betrays you does it affect you?02:25:16
Of course, it does. It does.02:25:18
If you could not come back to Russia in 2016 would you still be a statesman?02:25:24
I would still be a statesman but I would be totally disappointed in the officials.02:25:31
Both left and right.02:25:33
I would not be disappointed in my country.02:25:37
There is only one Russia. There will be no other homeland.02:25:42
I thought that homeland was the country. Not the state.02:25:45
Whatever. Russia.02:25:48
I am a statesman.02:25:49
Yes.02:25:50
This is what you said in Rome. Are you still?02:25:53
Yes, I still am. Even more convinced now.02:25:58
Explain.02:26:00
I think that the state is not only those who started this war.02:26:05
The state also consists of the people who will end this war.02:26:08
The state is more than the Politbureau or the Security Council.02:26:13
The state is.. the connections between people.02:26:21
We are all connected to Russia. This is what I mean by the word state.02:26:28
It's what unites me with the people I have never seen. We have something in common.02:26:34
When our country is in a bad place. Or in a good place.02:26:38
This is what the state means to me.02:26:39
The state makes me feel united with the people. We have one destiny.02:26:45
In this sense I am a statesman.02:26:48
In this sense I feel ashamed for my state. I feel like I did it.02:26:57
Like I started this war. This is what I feel.02:27:02
I am also capable to be proud of my state.02:27:05
When there is something to be proud of.02:27:08
It's a part of me. Part of my body.02:27:14
Is Shevchuk cool?02:27:16
He is very cool. Very.02:27:20
I love him more as a person than as a musician.02:27:24
I like him. You made a fantastic interview with him.02:27:27
One of my favorites. This was when I texted you that I cried.02:27:32
This was amazing. My favorite episode on your channel.02:27:36
Great. Do you believe that Putin didn't know his name at that meeting?02:27:41
I do. I do.02:27:47
How is it possible?02:27:49
Why not? Putin is as old as our dads.02:27:52
I am not sure my dad would know who Shevchuk was if he met him in the street.02:27:58
Of course, he would know about DDT and Shevchuk. But would he remember his name? Not sure.02:28:05
We all know Yuri Shevhchuk, our generation knows him.02:28:10
Let's imagine you are interviewing Putin.02:28:12
What would you ask him?02:28:14
It's hard to say. It's hard, Yura.02:28:19
I would ask him how he sees Russia in the past and in the future.02:28:30
I would ask him about christianity and its values. About its importance.02:28:36
About the human values. I would definitely ask him about Sokurov.02:28:42
This is what comes to my mind first.02:28:47
For me it is more important than politics.02:28:51
In Rome you asked me what I would ask Putin. And would I talk to him.02:28:56
I would talk to him now. But my questions would be different.02:29:00
Totally different.02:29:02
What would you ask?02:29:04
If we don't talk about abstract things and talk about specific topics..02:29:08
He's been saying that we were left with no choice.02:29:16
And if Russia didn't start the special operation it would be done against Russia.02:29:24
I only have one question.02:29:26
How can anyone attack such a big country with 140 million population which is a nuclear Power.02:29:37
How can anyone attack us? This is my question.02:29:42
I would like to hear him answer it. To hear any answer.02:29:46
A clear, coherent answer.02:29:48
And I would like to ask him one more thing.02:29:55
Why didn't anyone from the Security Council suggest to continue negotiating?02:30:07
I am convinced that there was a diplomatic way to do it.02:30:12
We needed to talk to avoid what happened.02:30:17
Why didn't we?02:30:23
In Rome you said that politics wasn't important for you.02:30:27
Don't you think that we got here because many millions of Russians who are not interested in politics?02:30:40
Who did not control the authorities? And who let the authorities go wild.02:30:47
I think my answer would be the same.02:30:50
I think it was determined to happen. I think that we underestimated their ideology.02:31:02
Not political aspect but ideological.02:31:04
Politics can change. There can be Putin or Medvedev.02:31:09
It can be liberal today and conservative tomorrow.02:31:12
But there is also an ideology which was not analyzed enough in the past.02:31:23
In a couple of episodes I tried to ask my guests if we underestimated Putin's conviction.02:31:36
He had a national idea. This idea was not influenced by politics.02:31:43
Do you get what I mean? He had an idea..02:31:47
In his head.02:31:48
He had an idea in his head and his close circle had this idea.02:31:52
He wanted to do it his way.02:31:54
A conflict between Western civilization and Russia as a separate civilization..02:32:06
It is his ideology.02:32:10
It is not about politics. It is about general views.02:32:12
And I think that we underestimated this idea.02:32:19
So when you ask me if there should be more politics in our life..02:32:28
Like the civil society..It will be. Some day there will be more politics.02:32:34
I still believe that Russia is too young for democratic institutes.02:32:39
It's an enormous country. Hundreds of thousands kilometers.02:32:43
Different republics. Our babysitter is coming from Dagestan.02:32:50
We like to talk what is going on in Dagestan. And it's a different world.02:32:56
It's not like Pskov. Not like Vladimir or Moscow or Saint Petersburg.02:33:01
There is Chechnya. There is Bashkortostan.02:33:04
There is Yakutia. It is a very complex country.02:33:08
And we got something else..02:33:16
Kolya, let me answer you. You said that we underestimated the idea of one man who ruled the whole country..02:33:24
Yura, we were doing the wrong fucking thing. Let me be clear. You did the wrong thing.02:33:28
And I did the wrong thing. We spent a big part of our lives for nothing.02:33:34
We spent it on fake things. Fake.02:33:39
What do you mean?02:33:41
Our work. The way we worked with our huge audience.02:33:47
We talked about wrong things.02:33:51
I think that we had to talk about politics more.02:33:55
I think we had to talk more about the worldview.02:33:59
But we did the wrong things.02:34:03
I am not going to deny it. I always say that we are not useful enough.02:34:08
Here is my thought. You say that politics is not the most important.02:34:17
You say that we underestimated Putin's idea.02:34:21
If the majority of the population did not distance themselves from politics..02:34:30
And would..wait a second..would participate in elections..02:34:36
If they would fight for their rights and not let them change the laws every couple of years.02:34:44
If politics was as important as brushing your teeth or driving your kids to school..02:34:49
If it became the integral part of our life..This man would not rule the country for over twenty years.02:34:55
And we would not care about the idea of a person who would not be president for more than two terms.02:35:04
Who would retire after it.02:35:06
Where am I wrong?02:35:08
You are completely wrong.02:35:09
Okay, justify.02:35:10
You are completely wrong. We have the country that we have.02:35:14
And we have people that we have, whether we like them or not.02:35:18
We need to accept that Putin's worldview is shared by a huge number of people.02:35:26
A huge number of people. You can't build a civil society in twenty years if you only think about the politics.02:35:36
I think it depends on the culture policy, education policy, spiritual work.02:35:46
This country has started a new life in 1992. Listen to Svetlana Sorokina.02:35:54
Listen to Victor Golyshev. They felt free only for three days in 1991.02:36:03
In August 1991.02:36:05
And they all say that everything went back afterwards.02:36:09
Everything went back. People live the same life as they had before.02:36:14
And I think we should focus on fundamentals.02:36:21
Worldview and ideology is more fundamental than politics.02:36:28
If politics meet an educated brain, an anti-intellectual brain, it becomes primitive and scary.02:36:39
Putin is always going to win in a primitive fight.02:36:44
His values are simple and clear. Do you get it?02:36:48
Politics is primitive. The way it has existed for the last twenty years.02:36:56
It is primitive. That is it.02:37:00
Unless..02:37:01
We had to make it complicated instead of oversimplifying.02:37:04
Unless we take care of the politics..Unless we create alternation of power..02:37:10
The issues of culture and education are never going to improve.02:37:16
They will remain inferior to the rocket missiles. 02:37:20
It depends on us, Yura. Ask yourself a question.02:37:23
When you make an interview with Morgenstern, an interview with Ivleeva,02:37:29
An interview with EeOneGuy.02:37:31
When you make ten of fifteen more episodes like that.02:37:34
What are you doing? Simplifying our minds or complicating?02:37:40
Or are you entertaining? What are you doing?02:37:44
What are you doing?02:37:47
I explore Russia this way. You know how self-critical I am. You know that I am never satisfied with my work.02:37:56
But I think that you are a bit wrong here. I would agree with you if I only made episodes with young guys.02:38:08
But you know that in my show there is not only Morgenstern. 02:38:12
Yura, I am not trying to attack you.02:38:17
You want to punch me.02:38:18
No, I don't. I ask myself the same questions every day.02:38:22
I ask myself. And I think that I could have been more serious than I was.02:38:32
Not an inch deep.02:38:36
I think that people with a high audience..02:38:40
My audience is huge, too..02:38:42
We are responsible for what we are doing.02:38:45
There is a huge responsibility.02:38:47
We should not think about today's agenda. Should not oversimplify.02:38:54
We should complicate things. We will never win in a primitive fight.02:39:02
We need to complicate.02:39:03
Do you think that the idea of alternation of power is crucial is oversimplification?02:39:11
Yura, there will be no new Russia free of dictatorship while the opposition leader is counting the fur coat rooms.02:39:21
There will be no new Russia. We will suffer forever. Forever.02:39:28
Forever.02:39:37
You say that you believe in a Russian man. What do you feel when you watch the Z shows?02:39:48
I don't feel anything.02:39:52
Do you lose your faith?02:39:54
No, my faith is intact. We have a huge country.02:39:57
There are different people living in it. I don't want to feel hate when I watch these shows.02:40:09
If I was a true Christian, which I am not, I would feel sorry for them.02:40:15
I would feel sorry that they lack love in their life.02:40:22
Nobody taught them to love.02:40:25
Nobody taught them mercy. Nobody taught them justice.02:40:29
I would think about that if I was a Christian.02:40:35
You don't always manage to think this way, do you?02:40:38
I am a bad Christian.02:40:41
Reduced, as Brodsky called it.02:40:43
He said that a cat is a reduced lion.02:40:47
Like we are reduced Christians.02:40:52
Where do you see yourself when you are fifty?02:40:54
Fifty? It's tough. I don't know02:40:57
Sometimes I feel like I would like to go back to teaching.02:41:00
I don't want to work too much. I had to work a lot in the College.02:41:07
I would like to be a European type professor.02:41:11
Easy.02:41:13
Three or four days a week. Not eight classes a day.02:41:18
I can't take it. It's too hard.02:41:20
What would you teach?02:41:22
World culture history. Russian literature.02:41:25
World culture history, I guess. Because it fits everything.02:41:28
I would like to teach. Or to work in a library.02:41:33
I don't what would I do. Maybe I would be the director. It does not matter.02:41:37
A librarian or a teacher.02:41:44
What is power?02:41:46
Responsibility and joy.02:41:50
What is the meaning of life?02:42:46
What is the meaning of life..02:43:47
Let me put it this way.02:43:48
The meaning of life is not to leave the world a worse place than it was before you were born.02:43:57
In all senses. Your small world and the big world.02:44:03
Let's drink to it.02:44:11
Thanks a lot.Description:
Курсы Синхронизации! От -30% с промокодом ВДУДЬ Искусство, поэзия, кино и другие темы: https://online.synchronize.ru/vdud Курс о войнах: https://online.synchronize.ru/history/worldwars?promocode=%D0%B2%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%B4%D1%8C ДАННОЕ СООБЩЕНИЕ (МАТЕРИАЛ) СОЗДАНО И (ИЛИ) РАСПРОСТРАНЕНО ИНОСТРАННЫМ СРЕДСТВОМ МАССОВОЙ ИНФОРМАЦИИ, ВЫПОЛНЯЮЩИМ ФУНКЦИИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА, И (ИЛИ) РОССИЙСКИМ ЮРИДИЧЕСКИМ ЛИЦОМ, ВЫПОЛНЯЮЩИМ ФУНКЦИИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА Ещенепознер https://www.youtube.com/c/%D0%B5%D1%89%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80 Фильм о поездке к бабушке https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22QsaR3T40 0:00 Вперед! 1:28 Мы – в Риме 2:52 Как ты придумал «ещенепознера»? 4:53 Почему ты плачешь в музеях? 8:45 Русский след в Мюнхене 11:45 Выпуск «ещенепознера», от которого вы тоже заплачете 18:34 Главный композитор мира – из Эстонии 20:31 Про отца 27:24 Мистика 30:39 Как ты познакомился с Катей Гордеевой? 35:31 Рим – столица русской культуры 39:01 Кафе, которому 260 лет 40:06 Ты любишь выпить? 43:46 Какие книги читать детям? 46:37 Почему ты не оппонируешь гостям? 50:01 Зачем ты просил Мединского позвонить отцу Серебренникова? 55:52 Почему ты – фанат Бродского? 59:42 Почему Бродский – великий? 1:02:39 Стихотворение Бродского про Украину – как его понимать? 1:05:45 Чтение – сила 1:09:23 Проблемы с ФСБ 1:14:37 Пиотровский шел на выборы от «Единой России» и поддержал Крым, но ты его уважаешь. За что? 1:19:48 Сын Пиотровского – талантливый менеджер? 1:22:21 «Великая красота» – большой фильм про современный Рим 1:26:32 Ты думаешь о смерти? 1:29:20 За что ты не любишь Навального? 1:38:10 «Коррупционные расследования – это низко и пошло». Рили? 1:43:56 Что почитать, чтобы понять, что война – это ужасно? 1:47:00 Сокуров предсказал войну 1:49:08 До войны: «Я горжусь офицерами и уважаю военных» 1:52:31 Попса – это плохо? 1:55:18 После начала войны: ты все еще гордишься офицерами? 2:00:22 «Жизнь прекрасна» 2:03:10 Двор из «Римских каникул» 2:05:15 Почему ты – фанат Тарковского? 2:10:28 Чем крут режиссер Сокуров? 2:18:03 Меркель – последний большой политик Европы? 2:23:02 «Я – государственник» 2:28:16 Оказавшись перед Путиным… 2:30:29 Политика vs культура 2:40:58 Кем ты видишь себя в 50? 2:41:49 В чем сила? 2:41:57 В чем смысл жизни?
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