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"videoThumbnail Ильгар Велизаде и Роман Багдасарян о мире между Арменией и Азербайджаном и ненависти между народами

1:50

Какова вероятность подписания документа о мире между двумя странами? (Ильгар Велизаде)

4:10

Какова вероятность подписания документа о мире между двумя странами? (Роман Багдасарян)

10:20

Что можно сделать, чтобы мир, подписанный на бумаге, перешел в мир между народами? (Ильгар Велизаде)

15:45

Что можно сделать, чтобы мир, подписанный на бумаге, перешел в мир между народами? (Роман Багдасарян)

23:08

В Армении не осталось азербайджанцев, в Азербайджане практически не осталось армян, может это к лучшему и нет повода для новых конфликтов? (Ильгар Велизаде)

29:09

Каждый живет в своей стране и нет повода для новых конфликтов. Может так оно и лучше? (Роман Багдасарян)

37:10

Комментарий относительно беженцев (Роман Багдасарян)

37:58

Реплика про беженцев от Ильгара Велизаде

41:36

Нужны ли Армении и Азербайджану посредники на пути к миру? (Ильгар Велизаде)

46:17

Нужны ли Армении и Азербайджану посредники на пути к миру? (Роман Багдасарян)

52:55

Какова перспектива формата Азербайджан – Армения – Турция? (Ильгар Велизаде)

56:25

Какова перспектива формата Азербайджан – Армения – Турция? (Роман Багдасарян)

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[music]

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Hello, dear subscribers of the

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YouTube channel Caleb, the guests of our

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next episode are the Azerbaijani

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political scientist Ilgar Velizade and the blogger from

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Armenia Roman Bagdasaryan Hello

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Dear guests Thank you for taking the time to

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join us as

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you hear

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excellent Aah great Dear guests

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today we will try For the most part

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with you in In principle, before the broadcast, we discussed all this to

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talk about the Peace

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Process between Armenia and Azerbaijan, I

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just want to say from the beginning so that

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the viewer also understands. And on a fairly

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wide range of issues between

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Azerbaijanis and Armenians, to put it mildly,

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there are disagreements and on which we can

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argue Well, well, for days on end Yes but we wo

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n’t do that now, we’ll

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try. Well, firstly, at least

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try to hear each other and

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secondly, speak on those uh Well, on those

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topics in those areas in which

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there may be some kind of common denominator. I

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believe that And such moments Of course there is

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now And naturally we will

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talk about the Peace Process Now you

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know Well, in the last couple of weeks quite

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often you can hear the opinion that

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some kind of special moment has come

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when Armenia and Azerbaijan can

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reach some kind of peace treaty, a peace

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agreement, a document that somehow Well,

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you know how will

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turn the page for the peoples of the countries, but there is another

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such moment, I see that from Baku and

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Yerevan Well, let’s say that the officials,

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on the one hand, seem to say We are

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ready, But on the other hand, of course,

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they say that they are not ready. That is, from

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Yerevan I hear that they say Baku is not ready from

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Baku, I hear that I would even say that

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this is not so categorical, it’s like

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questioning whether they are ready, we are ready,

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so, against the background of this, I would like to

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know your opinion, how much do you

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believe that, well sounds before the end of the year

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they can come to peace Yes, this is probably

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such an exact date, it doesn’t even matter, you can

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come in January and in February and December

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it’s not so important But the main thing is

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to come Here are your expectations, if

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you allow Ilgar, let’s start with you further

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Roman your opinion and me By

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the way, it was interesting to listen to the novel first. Yes, well,

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if you suggest, of course, I’ll start like that,

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just out of interest. Well, look, I think

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that the wiki is about a framework document; a

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framework document

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provides, let’s say, certain

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provisions of the norm

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that provide the conditions for

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further peace building or

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further building of relations

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between two countries, this means mutual

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recognition and subsequent other documents

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that, say, are

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formalized by states. Here is an example,

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this should be the most

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basic document, the framework document

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that is now being discussed. I think

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that the main obstacles, as far as I

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know from, let’s say, various sources,

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including Judging from official

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statements, then the main obstacles have

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generally been removed, it will be necessary to simply

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identify certain accents in this

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document,

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the accents related to,

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say, the basic principles

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that we are talking about, these are the five basic

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principles with which the Armenian side

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agreed, I would not like to repeat them.

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Well, in general, to detail some of

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these the remaining points and sign

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the document, again, well, you know. From

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the outside, this seems like a pure formality,

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in fact, to some extent it is

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a formality, but on the other hand,

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this is the basis for the subsequent

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construction of, say, normal,

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civilized bilateral relations,

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including diplomatic recognition,

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including subsequent steps. That is, you

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rather believe that this is

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possible, of course. Absolutely objective

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reasons for this are fully

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ripe Well,

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let's note that Armenia is

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really ready to sign a peace

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treaty, the Armenian people think the same as

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many reasonable people among the

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Azerbaijanis, they are tired of the thirty-year

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war of confrontation, but it seems to me that

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many experts in Armenia doubt

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that Mr. Aliyev really

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wants to sign a peace treaty. Many

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believe that Russia has great influence

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on Azerbaijan, it has a border with

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Azerbaijan, and it has

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rich Azerbaijani oligarchs in Russia, and the

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Russian KGB works closely with the

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Azerbaijani KGB and the Russian government

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which constantly advises

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Aliyev to do something. He will not allow the signing of a

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peace treaty because Russia

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always wants to be here to influence both

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countries and for some reason it seems to us that

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perhaps even Aliyev wants to sign a

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peace treaty, but Russia is also exerting

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enormous pressure. I’m just saying what

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I I feel what my friends,

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experts, and ordinary people in general say,

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regarding the peace treaty, I want to

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tell my interlocutor that a peace treaty

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is not just paper. Where will the signatures of

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Ilham Aliyev and Nikol Pashinyan be, but a

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peace treaty implies peace, peace in the

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soul of a person, in the heart of a person and in the

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head people and, accordingly, in

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order for peace to come not only on

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paper but also in people’s heads, it is necessary to

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put an end to human suffering. And

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these are, firstly, people who

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are still in prison in the Azerbaijani

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prison, much more than in the Armenian in the

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Armenian unit of Azerbaijanis in

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Azerbaijani on the order is many times greater.

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And this is the withdrawal of all soldiers from the

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Armenian-Azerbaijani border,

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including from our sovereign territories, and,

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accordingly, the solution of those issues

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that the Azerbaijanis face, that

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is, the Azerbaijanis have their own

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questions,

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these are questions of enclaves that

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are actually technical and not very

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painful because if Nikol

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Pashinyan has already recognized the territorial

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integrity of Azerbaijan and named the numbers,

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yes And if Ilham Aliyev also recognized the

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territorial integrity of the same Prague

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to Armenia, but unfortunately has not yet named

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the numbers, then if Ilham Aliyev names these

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numbers as was said on the Almaty

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papers and other documents then

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these are ordinary technical questions, the Armenians

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have their own large enclave, this is Artsvashen, the

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Azerbaijanis have these small

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enclaves, there are some other enclaves, in

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fact, if you count them by

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territory, that is, by square meters, it

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turns out the same thing. That’s why I

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I think that with the mutual desire of the ministers of

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foreign affairs and the heads of Azerbaijan and

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Armenia, these are technical issues that

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will be very easily resolved and I do not see in

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these issues Kai a problem that

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is unsolvable. But I

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want to repeat once again that a peace treaty

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is not just a piece of paper that

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is signed Ilham Aliyev and Nikol Pashinyan

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But this is peace in people’s heads and souls, you

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see in our social networks what kind of

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bullying is happening, sometimes I’m just

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really scared to read and

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Armenian Azerbaijani social

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networks that sometimes, in pursuit of

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insults against each other,

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go completely some moral

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parameters, I don’t know I understand that

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the media they need to

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gain the number of views they are

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chasing the public who apparently

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demands it someone is monetizing the channel

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Everyone has their own goals But without

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this colleague I don’t see the real world,

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that is, it is necessary to change the mood

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of people, by the way, speaking of our interview. We have been

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planning for a long time to predict

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that we will do an interview. Look, just

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now it worked out. Look at

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how difficult it is to do

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an interview. Why, because only we are

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starting to talk with other

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journalists about the world. How is it happening?

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something terrible is killing people,

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shootings, shelling, Yes, something changes

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180° and after that people

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ask us a question. Well, you Armenians,

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Azerbaijanis are talking. And what is the

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use of your conversations? If a

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new escalation occurs in a week so

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that there are no new Elias for in order to

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put an end to the conflict and there was

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truly a peace treaty, it is necessary for

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both sides to work on the mood

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of people, this is social networks, this is the mood

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on the streets in cities and when meeting each

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other in Georgia in Russia so that there is no

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conflict Drag with flags and so on and so forth like

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this my answer

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is clear. As I understand it, it was not in vain that I made

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a reservation that on a whole series of questions,

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our opinions will not coincide,

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the only remark I will say is that Roman

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again, you said about Russia Yes, it’s

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exactly the same in Azerbaijan. You

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probably notice from the media what they think and about

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Armenia regarding Well, over whom is

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Russia more? As they say patron and so on

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there is similar stuff You probably noticed all this,

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but the novel touched upon one such moment,

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in principle anticipating my question. So

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we are talking about a peace treaty there is an agreement

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and so on and it is obvious that from the point of

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view you know, as a document, this is important. Well,

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from the point of view for countries, for states,

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so that we understand where we are going, how we

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regulate our relations there. Trade, will

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it be roads, will it be a border, will it

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be, and so on. This is important

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for states, without this it is very difficult, but It

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would probably be too naive to believe

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that the papers signed at the same time will

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lead to peace between

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nations. This is a longer

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story and that’s why I would like to know.

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Here is your opinion about what should

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serve, what would help, you know exactly how they

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signed between states and so

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on, here institutionally we understand

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But between peoples, it’s easy to tell them

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that Armenia and Azerbaijan signed

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several papers, so Let’s

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make peace and it’s all over. I think that

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this would be too naive an approach. How do you

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see the algorithm in this

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situation? Well, let me

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say, Yes, if it allows Ron

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The thing is that look at the

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situation in the world, Azerbaijan presented the initiative to work on a

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peace treaty.

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That is, this is the initiative of Ilham Aliyev and

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it is clear that Ilham

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Aliyev, when we say

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the formulation or his initiative, he

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understood that what could be behind this and

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what goals the Azerbaijani

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side is pursuing in in particular, this initiative

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was supported by Armenia, this initiative

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was supported by mediators, in

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particular, the European Union and so on,

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someone will put pressure on us, this will not be

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someone putting pressure on this question tenth if

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the parties put a lot of pressure on us

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in other periods, let’s say, of

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our history But we somehow

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got through this pressure, and even more so today When it

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comes to a fundamental moment, let’s say

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turning the page of a conflict

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page, of course This basic document

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is necessary, therefore, the Azerbaijani

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side is so that the Armenian

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political community, the expert

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journalistic community, understands from

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whom the initiative comes and who will act

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So, to achieve the signing of this

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important document now point by point Yes, I

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would like to go through this, in fact,

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this is a form, it’s not about the soul, it’s

00:12:14

about legally binding aspects, this

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very peace treaty is about the soul, we

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’ll probably talk about it later. Of course,

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we can discuss this in parallel, but here we are

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Now we are talking about a document about a

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normative act. If you want

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international significance, which

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establishes the framework relations between

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two countries, then there are other

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documents. Now we are talking

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about, say, a form, which is a formal

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document, most likely Yes, absolutely

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right, which provides this

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very

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policy track. What is called that defines

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it character now, as for the

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soul and about our relations Let's

00:12:58

look at international practice, there are a

00:13:01

lot of states that,

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unfortunately, are in very

00:13:04

confrontational relations, but at the same time

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they have, and even often have

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embassies, some exchange

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embassies, and there are

00:13:17

corresponding agreements on borders between them and

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so on That is, this is a peace treaty -

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this is about this. This is an agreement that

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allows us to actually close this very

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conflict story in the political and legal

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plane. That’s what we’re talking about as far as

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dialogue is concerned, dialogue is necessary, of course

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necessary, between societies between

00:13:42

states between governments

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Look a couple of days ago the President of

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Azerbaijan was in Tbilisi and

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made such a very important statement,

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by the way, regarding the dialogue. He

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said that Well,

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let’s

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discuss our topics in a trilateral format in Tbilisi,

00:14:04

in Georgia, when there will be no

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mediators, neither Western nor Eastern nor

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Northern nor Southern and we ourselves will

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determine our agenda, these

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states are also a very

00:14:16

constructive proposal,

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unfortunately, by the way, the Armenian side rejected

00:14:20

such proposals in the past, which means they

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have now refused to do so, as for the

00:14:26

closure of all other issues, but in

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fact they are very complex issues, in

00:14:30

particular border issues,

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look, we have good ones relations with

00:14:35

Georgia good relations with Russia there

00:14:37

with Iran But the process of delimitation with

00:14:40

Russia I remember it took about 20 years

00:14:43

20 years delimitation demarcation of borders Well,

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I think that on the main basic issues

00:14:49

- this is the return of exclave enclaves, a

00:14:51

fundamental solution should be found

00:14:53

in the near future time However, the

00:14:56

process itself can stretch out over a

00:14:57

certain period, this does not mean that we

00:15:00

agreed on an enclave today and tomorrow they

00:15:03

will be there, which means the corresponding

00:15:06

work has been completed, no, so I think that

00:15:09

the most important thing is to direct these

00:15:12

processes into such a normal,

00:15:13

civilized, peaceful channel when the

00:15:16

commissions work

00:15:17

and meet assess the situation on

00:15:20

the ground and all that stuff, now we are talking

00:15:23

about this, as for the

00:15:25

media, what they say,

00:15:27

write and so on, of course,

00:15:29

this is a special, such a sensitive topic, a

00:15:32

sensitive topic and the Peace process cannot

00:15:36

go on, as it were, well, it must go in

00:15:39

parallel with that that

00:15:41

the situation must change and in the

00:15:43

media the media

00:15:44

must support this peaceful agenda and we

00:15:47

must agree with this, but again this

00:15:51

all must be synchronous. This is approximately

00:15:53

how the situation seems to understand your

00:15:56

opinion and I would really like for you to

00:15:58

comment on what Ilgar said

00:16:00

he’s actually right, because the Amir process itself

00:16:02

wants to be questioned

00:16:04

Baku doesn’t want to sign there Russia will say he

00:16:07

won’t say, but this initiative came from

00:16:10

Azerbaijan and for a long time Russia seemed to

00:16:12

think that it was possible to

00:16:15

leave everything like this and without peace now Yes

00:16:17

indeed Moscow He says no. Well,

00:16:19

let’s also make peace and

00:16:21

some kind of document, but before that we have repeatedly

00:16:23

heard that this is, like, this is a

00:16:27

prospect for the future, yes. But

00:16:29

the initiative came from Baku. Roman, yes,

00:16:31

let’s first of all, I’ll immediately emphasize

00:16:34

that Moscow’s opinion is No one is

00:16:36

interested in Armenia, maybe peace is of

00:16:38

great importance what Moscow says at

00:16:39

the moment in Armenia Few people

00:16:41

care what Moscow says, that is, let’s

00:16:43

leave Moscow alone, its opinion I think

00:16:46

should not be of interest to the second I

00:16:49

would like to answer several of

00:16:53

Ilgar’s proposals with which I do not agree read

00:16:55

Ilgar says that we’ll talk about the soul later In

00:16:58

the meantime, let’s think about the Peace

00:17:00

Treaty as a legal document We

00:17:03

heard the same thing from the Azerbaijani

00:17:05

country When we were talking about reintegration for the last 3 years,

00:17:09

today the Azerbaijanis themselves are

00:17:12

very serious, your experts

00:17:14

agree that reintegration is a

00:17:17

joke letter because in practice

00:17:20

we saw that all the Armenians

00:17:23

99% 90 left if this is reintegration as a

00:17:27

legal document, it was something like

00:17:29

how it happened that all the

00:17:31

Armenians left there because we

00:17:34

said the same thing, that we’ll talk about the soul

00:17:36

later, but in reality on the ground those sitting in

00:17:39

Karabakh are not Experts like you, not the

00:17:42

administration of Ilham Aliyev, but

00:17:45

ordinary soldiers standing, contract soldiers, someone drinks, someone is

00:17:47

aggressive, someone hates, if

00:17:50

we always treat everything like

00:17:52

this from the point of view of theory, without giving a damn

00:17:54

about practice, we will get the same the most Yes,

00:17:57

what we saw is that the Armenians do not trust

00:18:00

anyone and left their homes Yes, this is

00:18:04

what we will get again, that is, we

00:18:05

sign a peace treaty like a

00:18:07

document and at the same time We leave

00:18:10

feelings, emotions for later, we leave this

00:18:13

for later, we just sign pieces of paper

00:18:16

This wrong with us, secondly,

00:18:19

you said about a platform like Georgia.

00:18:22

Georgia never said that it

00:18:24

was going to be an arbiter between Armenia

00:18:26

or Azerbaijan. Georgia is not Georgia

00:18:30

saying that it is not going to

00:18:32

interfere in these negotiations. And if we

00:18:34

just need a Georgian platform for

00:18:36

negotiations, we can calmly go to both

00:18:38

Baku and Yerevan invite Mr.

00:18:41

Aliyev to Yerevan invite Pashinyan to

00:18:43

Baku and let them talk there, what’s the

00:18:45

difference between sitting in Tbilis one on one or

00:18:47

sitting in Baku or in Yerevan I think that

00:18:49

we have already gone through many processes and going to

00:18:52

Yerevan Baku is not like that I I think it’s problematic

00:18:55

as it was, let’s say 3 years ago

00:18:58

now Why do I say this about Georgia?

00:19:01

Georgia is for us a fraternal,

00:19:03

friendly country, but Georgia is not the

00:19:05

European Union. I don’t think that you

00:19:08

think that the European Union, which

00:19:10

includes all the countries of Europe,

00:19:12

is a civilized organization.

00:19:14

continent can be

00:19:16

compared with Georgia, which firstly

00:19:19

depends on Russia, today the political

00:19:22

team of Georgia is completely subordinate to the

00:19:24

Russian narrative of Putin’s narrative and is

00:19:27

economically dependent on Azerbaijan and

00:19:29

Turkey. Therefore, I think that the European

00:19:33

Union is the civilized world, the American

00:19:35

European platform, they are more

00:19:39

effective and more correct now

00:19:42

as for presenter, I don’t agree with

00:19:45

your phrase When you said that this is a

00:19:47

long way, you know, in fact, everything

00:19:50

depends on the tools, you

00:19:52

said correctly and what I see is

00:19:55

the algorithm of action, the algorithm and tools

00:19:59

that can be used to

00:20:00

reconcile people, they should be

00:20:04

direct in the sense of the word, bold and

00:20:06

fast enough, this can be done in a

00:20:10

short time if we want it.

00:20:13

Because if we don’t want it, we

00:20:15

say Yes, it will be a long process

00:20:17

because we are too lazy, we are too lazy to

00:20:19

sit down and think about it. What tools

00:20:22

can we use 5 10 20 30

00:20:25

tools to reconcile with people,

00:20:28

so I don’t think that this is a long

00:20:29

process, we need to work with people, you see,

00:20:31

look, we are talking

00:20:33

correctly, we don’t need Europeans,

00:20:35

Georgians, or Moscow. We went on air and we

00:20:38

talk and we listen to each other. This is not a

00:20:42

debate, this is discussion and It is very good

00:20:45

that this is not a debate, but a discussion when

00:20:47

everyone expresses their opinion and we are already

00:20:49

thinking where we have sharp corners where we

00:20:51

should think about what we do not agree

00:20:53

with each other, reconciliation can

00:20:55

happen quickly enough, no one

00:20:58

is going to become brothers, I mean

00:20:59

I spoke a lot about this on my broadcasts.

00:21:01

Now even siblings are not friends

00:21:03

with each other, but there should be normal working relations

00:21:06

between countries that

00:21:07

will allow. Once again, to free

00:21:09

people from prisons, remove

00:21:12

Azerbaijani and Armenian soldiers from the border, and open

00:21:16

all transport hubs that will allow

00:21:18

Azerbaijan and Armenia to use these roads under the

00:21:21

sovereignty of Azerbaijan and Armenia

00:21:23

for the benefit of their economy.

00:21:26

Something like this Yes Roman, I’m not

00:21:30

trying to be a pessimist, just well,

00:21:33

I’d rather be a realist about the

00:21:35

timing, God willing, God grant your optimism in

00:21:38

this case will be realistic but

00:21:40

again, global practice shows

00:21:41

that after such protracted conflicts, it

00:21:44

can be very difficult for a moment to

00:21:45

restore everything again. Let’s talk a little.

00:21:48

Well, let’s say this about a frankly

00:21:50

painful moment. Well, firstly,

00:21:54

now a situation has arisen when from

00:21:56

Yerevan, in principle, this was said about the

00:21:59

fact that here in Karabakh in Azerbaijan there are no

00:22:02

Armenians left, or almost no

00:22:04

Armenians left, and how would this be a reproach? And of course,

00:22:08

Roman understands this and the audience in Baku

00:22:11

responds to this, of course, that you know,

00:22:14

since the end of the eighties, there hasn’t been a

00:22:16

single Azerbaijani left in Armenia, and then

00:22:18

there are we have come to a situation where there are

00:22:21

no Azerbaijanis left in Armenia and there are

00:22:23

almost no Armenians left in Azerbaijan and I

00:22:27

would like to know your vision from the point

00:22:30

of view of the future of these people, but because

00:22:34

I am not sure that everyone would like to

00:22:37

return from here to there or from Armenia again I

00:22:40

believe that the conflict leaves its own.

00:22:42

Unfortunately, it leaves its own wounds, but

00:22:44

some part of the people would probably like to

00:22:45

return, come for them, this is their native

00:22:47

place, yes. And your vision on this matter

00:22:50

and a little bit like this, you know, there may be

00:22:53

a question: You may not like it, but in your

00:22:55

After all this, it somehow

00:22:58

flashed into my head that maybe and maybe

00:23:02

it’s for the better Yes, there are no foundations for you

00:23:05

know how for Well, people live in

00:23:08

their own places and there are no certain prerequisites for

00:23:11

new conflicts, maybe for new

00:23:13

disputes for new layers I understand that the

00:23:15

Question may cause a little bit of negativity,

00:23:18

but has it flashed through your head and

00:23:21

Ilgar, you have given Roman

00:23:23

to yours, so I’m just making a remark again,

00:23:26

of course, of course I

00:23:28

won’t return to this

00:23:30

issue again, I want to remind you what a

00:23:32

peace treaty is in general How

00:23:33

relations between countries

00:23:35

Look in practice, Morocco and

00:23:38

Algeria have very bad relations, very

00:23:41

bad relations, but these states

00:23:44

recognize each other, they recognize the

00:23:46

territorial integrity of

00:23:48

each other, relatively speaking, they have

00:23:50

state borders with which they seem to

00:23:52

recognize they are friends, they

00:23:55

love each other, they do not they love each other

00:23:58

This question does not relate to the

00:24:00

political and legal plane, this is the question of

00:24:02

what, that is, we are talking today when we

00:24:04

talk about the Peace Treaty, we are talking

00:24:07

first of all about this, everyone is talking about it, that

00:24:09

is, they are talking about it in the European

00:24:12

Union, and so on and so forth further What now

00:24:14

concerns issues related to

00:24:16

reintegration

00:24:18

and concerning

00:24:21

these people who,

00:24:24

by the will of fate, as a result, let’s

00:24:28

say in fact it’s not

00:24:30

necessary in fact today the

00:24:32

Armenians are in Armenia the Azerbaijanis in

00:24:33

Azerbaijan in fact this happened

00:24:37

completely now here I am I’m trying. The point

00:24:41

is that I shouldn’t approach the

00:24:43

issue emotionally. And again, from a legal

00:24:45

perspective, as much as possible so that people

00:24:47

understand approximately what can

00:24:50

accompany this process. I understand

00:24:52

Roman is a journalist, he sees

00:24:55

the situation somewhat differently. But let’s say I’m a person

00:24:58

who is trying to somehow be more

00:25:00

detailed to sort out the questions, that is,

00:25:02

again based on the principles that

00:25:06

exist,

00:25:07

what what needs to be done in general in

00:25:10

order to let's turn to the base yes

00:25:13

In order to be a citizen of a

00:25:16

particular country you need to go to the migration

00:25:20

service, you need to take a passport of this country

00:25:23

while being a citizen of this

00:25:26

country further decisions must be made.

00:25:29

In this regard, a citizen of a

00:25:32

state is also a universal

00:25:35

principle, that is, it cannot be that a

00:25:40

significant number of people live on the territory of a country, say, who do

00:25:43

not have passports of this

00:25:46

country. Well, of course, this is nonsense,

00:25:49

politics, legal nonsense, there is no such thing

00:25:52

anywhere, here is reintegration into

00:25:56

including participation here in the base and about this,

00:26:00

of course, there is a very difficult

00:26:02

psychological moment here, but this

00:26:05

psychological moment is solved precisely

00:26:08

with the help of those, say, institutions

00:26:12

that should operate in this region.

00:26:14

We have this does not mean that

00:26:17

you know Roman. The point is that if uh,

00:26:20

let’s say the Armenian population will

00:26:21

return there, there

00:26:25

should be appropriate frameworks and they will be, that is,

00:26:28

these people will return to already under the

00:26:31

guarantee of the Azerbaijani state

00:26:34

today, not there, I don’t know, not the 19th century, not there, the

00:26:38

15th century, today there are a lot of

00:26:43

audiovisual media and so on

00:26:45

that could have recorded some

00:26:47

violations, of course, this is the

00:26:49

Azerbaijani state. Taking

00:26:52

responsibility upon itself, it will do everything to prevent

00:26:54

this from happening. That’s the question. On the

00:26:57

other hand, there is an international

00:27:00

organization. Look, the

00:27:02

UN mission is operating. It came, came and

00:27:05

is coming to assess the situation and so on,

00:27:08

naturally this the issue should

00:27:10

most likely be parallel and the

00:27:12

corresponding structures can

00:27:14

carry out certain functions, say,

00:27:17

for the initial supervision of this

00:27:19

situation, this is also provided for, this is

00:27:21

also, as it were, general mechanisms, on the other

00:27:25

hand, again, I’m talking about the

00:27:27

implementation of these mechanisms in

00:27:29

practice, this is to think that a soldier will come there

00:27:33

will start spreading rot and beating someone and so

00:27:37

on This is nonsense this cannot be

00:27:40

this soldier officer will be held

00:27:43

responsible this situation is impossible

00:27:45

like this I again say the 20th century it is

00:27:47

impossible to keep it closed like that

00:27:50

immediately publicize it and look

00:27:55

what we are talking about reintegration about

00:27:59

what should happen today or

00:28:01

can happen, but look what happened

00:28:03

30 years ago when these people were simply

00:28:06

expelled, expelled.

00:28:09

No one spoke about any reintegration, no one

00:28:11

spoke about passports, no one spoke about

00:28:13

security guarantees from the Armenian

00:28:15

side, that is the question. Problem The fact is

00:28:18

that the current situation and the situation

00:28:22

that was at the time of the conflict is a wild

00:28:25

situation, they are different, very

00:28:28

fundamentally different houses of the Armenians

00:28:31

who left theirs, say, their houses, they

00:28:34

remain intact and intact, but

00:28:37

the houses of the Azerbaijanis who

00:28:39

left them are not there at all, still

00:28:42

very many then there are thousands of hundreds of thousands of

00:28:44

people who cannot return to their

00:28:47

Azerbaijani homes because they are simply

00:28:49

not physically there, on the other side of

00:28:52

the territory there are significant amounts of

00:28:54

mines. That’s the question, that is,

00:28:56

we are talking about the fact that let’s Armenians

00:28:59

come back, we give you rights and our

00:29:03

own citizens they cannot return

00:29:05

to their own territory

00:29:07

because, well, physically there are no houses, the

00:29:09

territory is mined, and so on. That’s the

00:29:11

question. This question, by the way, is also of a

00:29:13

humanitarian nature to some extent,

00:29:15

and I think that it will also need to be

00:29:18

resolved. Yes, Roman here again Yes,

00:29:21

please, such a Huge

00:29:23

Remark turned out Let me answer Ira,

00:29:26

so

00:29:28

you said nonsense every single day,

00:29:31

every single day I can send it to you after the broadcast,

00:29:33

every single day there are videos about the

00:29:36

looting that are happening now in

00:29:39

Karabakh, these videos are there, you also probably

00:29:41

see the Telegram channel of

00:29:42

Azerbaijani Soldiers coming home

00:29:45

they pull out everything that they see there, this is the

00:29:48

second time, you said our

00:29:50

soldier cannot offend someone somehow, all my

00:29:53

relatives from Karabakh who are

00:29:55

leaving, every single one of them, they say that

00:29:58

when they leave the village,

00:30:00

Azerbaijani soldiers left them. They cursed,

00:30:03

shouted, and said to leave anymore. don’t

00:30:05

come back watched with hatred

00:30:08

so this is not nonsense these are facts

00:30:11

thirdly Well, I really regret that seven

00:30:13

districts around Karabakh were destroyed and

00:30:16

people left their homes I believe that this

00:30:19

was done incorrectly I believe and I

00:30:23

criticize this in my broadcasts that these are

00:30:26

taken separately General Karabakh

00:30:29

acted disgustingly disgustingly and

00:30:33

the suffering that people had in these

00:30:34

seven regions is the curse of these people,

00:30:37

even if they are now in Europe or

00:30:39

somewhere, their tears, their grievances, their pain, which

00:30:43

cannot be discounted, what

00:30:45

we had before, in any case, these The generals, I

00:30:47

can’t speak for them, they didn’t talk about this,

00:30:49

it’s their problem, and now as

00:30:54

for passports, Ilgar said that

00:30:57

they should receive passports. Ilgar. The fact is

00:31:00

that all these 3 years after the war,

00:31:02

for example, I personally criticized the Karabakh

00:31:04

authorities of their officials for the fact that they do not

00:31:07

fulfill the agreement between Aliyev and

00:31:10

Pashinyan, which was with Charles Michel in

00:31:13

Brussels, that Baku and the Armenian

00:31:17

officials of Karabakh should sit down at the

00:31:19

negotiating table and these issues should be resolved by these

00:31:22

officials, under the influence of the Russians, they did not

00:31:25

want to do anything, by the way, the

00:31:27

Azerbaijanis until recently did not believe

00:31:29

that the Karabakh authorities did not subordinate to

00:31:32

Yerevan Apparently they believed It was only in

00:31:34

September because before that everyone

00:31:36

said yes No Pashinyan rules there

00:31:39

100% I said all 3 years that these people

00:31:42

are doing as the Russians say so the

00:31:44

question of passports Ilgar They can and that

00:31:47

is they could no longer

00:31:51

these officials who were sitting there could decide and there

00:31:54

was no agreement, that is, for 3 years they

00:31:57

pretended to be super stars who

00:31:59

listened to the Russians and did not sit down at the

00:32:01

negotiating table with the Azerbaijanis, I

00:32:04

said in many of my broadcasts that it

00:32:06

is necessary to talk for an hour 2 hours 3

00:32:09

hours to understand how solve these issues

00:32:11

But we are small people, I’m not an official

00:32:14

of Karabakh, I’m not their general, they don’t

00:32:16

listen to anyone, neither Brussels nor Yerevan except the

00:32:18

Russians, that’s why this situation is like this. Now I’m

00:32:21

answering the question of the presenter

00:32:23

that He asked. Which means, I

00:32:27

honestly want to especially emphasize that they

00:32:30

lived in Armenia there are many times fewer

00:32:32

Azerbaijanis than Armenians in Azerbaijan,

00:32:34

this is the second time

00:32:36

to compare the Azerbaijani residents

00:32:39

who all sold their houses in the same

00:32:41

Gegharkunik region and not only were they

00:32:44

able to sell their houses and move to

00:32:46

Azerbaijan, but I also want to especially

00:32:48

emphasize that in the Gegharkunik region

00:32:51

not a single the Azerbaijani cemetery on the

00:32:53

territory of Armenia has not been destroyed, this is what

00:32:56

you should hear properly, and in

00:32:58

Baku we know that

00:33:00

they destroyed the Armenian cemetery in its

00:33:03

place, they built a new building in its place, we saw, but

00:33:05

after the Forty Day War, the

00:33:08

Armenian cemetery in the village of Mets

00:33:10

Taglar was destroyed and they went there the road to Shushi through

00:33:13

this cemetery and so on and so forth, the

00:33:15

Armenians left their homes in the Shaumyan

00:33:18

region thanks, among other things, to the Russian

00:33:20

allies in quotes who participated

00:33:22

in Operation Ring and now more than

00:33:25

100,000 Armenians have left their homes, compare them with the

00:33:29

people who were there in 1988,

00:33:30

many already many grandfathers have died, they have already

00:33:32

left this life with people who are

00:33:34

now crying. I think that it’s still

00:33:36

impossible. But you said it correctly,

00:33:39

Ilgar said that their houses remain

00:33:41

safe and sound. I want to confirm

00:33:44

your words that it’s really

00:33:46

like it’s on the line in these villages now. there are no fires,

00:33:49

no one is burning these houses, as for

00:33:51

example, individual

00:33:53

Karabakh Generals burned houses in Agdam

00:33:56

Yes, now it is necessary to speak boldly about this,

00:33:59

I have also spoken about this many times. Why the

00:34:00

hell are these Generals,

00:34:03

individual bandits burned the houses of

00:34:06

Azerbaijanis, broke their walls? Why the

00:34:09

hell are they doing this? they did this a godless

00:34:12

act and which I will

00:34:14

criticize equally for both Azerbaijanis and

00:34:16

Armenians, why was this done

00:34:19

because it added revenge to hatred,

00:34:22

negativity, malice? Yes, which we cannot

00:34:25

clear up in any way, you understand, in any

00:34:27

case, individual journalists

00:34:29

who sincerely want this, that’s why

00:34:32

Garou I want to say that there are a

00:34:34

lot of questions here specifically for these

00:34:36

individual people who have no honor,

00:34:39

dignity or humanity, and I

00:34:43

will never justify to anyone, no matter

00:34:45

the Azerbaijani or the Armenians, the Armenians who

00:34:47

destroy the cemetery, for example your

00:34:50

cemetery, and who are also destroyed in

00:34:52

these seven regions I

00:34:54

I don’t justify any of these people and I believe

00:34:57

that I, in any case, live by

00:34:59

God’s laws that always, regardless of

00:35:01

politics, you have to think in general what

00:35:04

the Lord God will think about your action,

00:35:06

so here I cannot be responsible for

00:35:08

individual crimes of the Armenians, just

00:35:11

as I think that you cannot be responsible

00:35:13

for individual war crimes of the

00:35:15

Azerbaijanis that occurred

00:35:17

during the hostilities. It’s clear, very

00:35:20

briefly. Roman, you said that about the

00:35:22

gentlemen, you said, very briefly, it

00:35:25

turns out that if the Armenians leave

00:35:28

Azerbaijan, they are refugees, they are expelled,

00:35:31

they are people who were hurt, and when

00:35:35

an Azerbaijani from Armenia ends up in

00:35:37

Azerbaijan, this is a person who successfully

00:35:39

sold his house, which means that in Azerbaijan

00:35:42

they sold all their houses, understand,

00:35:45

no one here beat them all, as for the capan.

00:35:47

Yes, the Azerbaijanis really like

00:35:50

to talk about the Kama River already once in that

00:35:53

Arban

00:35:55

said the conflict is a big

00:35:57

provocation of the USSR the events in Sumgait

00:36:00

prove this when for 2 days the Soviet army did

00:36:03

not want to separate Azerbaijan from its own and the

00:36:05

Armenians Why are the Azerbaijanis who

00:36:07

are talking about digging That someone has left somewhere

00:36:09

Why don’t these same Azerbaijanis

00:36:11

admit that someone in the digging was

00:36:13

preparing this provocation Why it’s so difficult to

00:36:15

say it’s forbidden for you to

00:36:17

say it After all, this reasonable person if an

00:36:19

Azerbaijani says that Sumgait Yes,

00:36:22

someone stirred it up And in Kapan no and someone did

00:36:25

n’t prepare and in Karabakh Azerbaijan

00:36:27

separately take Oh, provocateurs,

00:36:29

maybe it was the KGB, you and me we don’t know,

00:36:31

we were little, probably 35 years

00:36:33

younger than today when we talk on

00:36:35

the air, how can we find ourselves in

00:36:37

the past and understand exactly in which

00:36:39

office who trained the provocateurs? Why are

00:36:41

we not us? Why don’t you and I leave

00:36:44

this area for reflection Why?

00:36:47

we should write out diagnoses right away They

00:36:50

agree with me No, well, I The question was a little

00:36:53

about something else. I mean, you know,

00:36:55

in Azerbaijan, they, too, were Armenians selling

00:36:57

their apartments to Moscow, and just simply

00:37:00

because of what you say, again, I didn’t

00:37:02

plan it that way. planned to move on to

00:37:05

questions. But it turns out that if an

00:37:07

Armenian from Azerbaijan ends up in

00:37:09

Armenia, you think that he is a refugee in a disadvantaged

00:37:12

state, and so yes, he should be

00:37:14

pitied. And if and if an Azerbaijani from

00:37:18

Armenia ends up in Azerbaijan, then you

00:37:19

paint a picture of having successfully sold

00:37:22

his apartment, that is he's in chocolate,

00:37:24

just understand this is a little

00:37:27

colleague colleague compare units units

00:37:30

in quantity with the whole

00:37:32

Shaumyanov district with the whole Sumgait in

00:37:35

Sumgait in the Shaumyanov district

00:37:38

no one sold their apartment, they were all kicked out

00:37:40

of their houses This is a huge scale

00:37:43

of people I would like us to Close this

00:37:45

issue because he only brought us arguments,

00:37:48

but I’m talking about facts about facts, I didn’t

00:37:51

say I didn’t say that I think that

00:37:54

this one should go, it should be covered in chocolate,

00:37:56

and you don’t need to pay attention to that.

00:37:57

I didn’t say that. I’ll

00:38:00

say it clearly again that there is questions on which there won’t

00:38:03

be a single denominator for a long time

00:38:05

Ilgar, do you want to

00:38:06

respond with something in a remark? I’ll move on to the

00:38:08

questions because I don’t want to either. Yes, I don’t

00:38:11

want to go into details. I just

00:38:13

would like to draw your attention, there are

00:38:15

relevant reports. What are

00:38:19

law enforcement agencies called? This is it

00:38:21

official information, but in the eighty-

00:38:23

eighth year these are Soviet authorities, that is,

00:38:27

it means you can think what it means, after

00:38:30

all, there was a certain objectivity at

00:38:32

that time, and so, according to

00:38:34

these data, 4,000 families even before the start of

00:38:39

the conflict before the start of the Karabakh

00:38:41

conflict Until February, 4,000 families from

00:38:46

Armenia that means they ended up Well, they were expelled

00:38:49

from the territory of Armenia, they ended up in

00:38:50

Azerbaijan at the time of the beginning of

00:38:53

the conflict, that is, we are talking about the fact that

00:38:56

this is a provocation if This is a provocation, it was

00:38:58

prepared so carefully that

00:39:01

these same ethnic cleansings began

00:39:04

back in 1987, the first

00:39:07

refugees went somewhere- then in October in November of

00:39:10

the year eighty-seven and at the

00:39:12

time of the beginning of the conflict there would have been about 4,000

00:39:16

so then there

00:39:19

were already relevant proceedings and

00:39:21

so on Well, that’s already yes Okay, let me

00:39:25

add yes 20 seconds no more because

00:39:28

we won’t go beyond 20 seconds and 20

00:39:31

seconds Ilgar said that according to the data there is the

00:39:33

Azerbaijani SSR or the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the SSR I’ll just

00:39:37

say one sentence, all this data is

00:39:39

not worth a penny Why

00:39:41

Because when were these tragic

00:39:44

events provoked by the USSR and the KGB of the SSR

00:39:47

in Sumgait all these days when blood was shed there

00:39:50

Soviet television showed

00:39:53

What was happening in the cube, what was happening in

00:39:56

Vietnam, that is, all Soviet

00:39:59

Propaganda, Soviet lies and Soviet

00:40:02

pitting of Armenians and Azerbaijanis and their

00:40:05

data, which you may be

00:40:06

guided by or now say, for

00:40:09

me this is zero because even now

00:40:12

Russia uses fake lies Propaganda

00:40:15

in the fight Yes, with some countries And what can

00:40:17

we say about the eighty-eighth year of the

00:40:18

Elgars When there were no Telegram channels,

00:40:21

no videos, no tubes Yes, you can imagine how

00:40:24

false Propaganda is then,

00:40:27

so I would suggest that we, purely

00:40:30

you know, How can colleagues not quote

00:40:32

please not for a second it didn’t work out for 20

00:40:35

seconds about the fact that there

00:40:37

wasn’t about the fact that there was no tube and

00:40:39

social networks were very boring. I

00:40:41

understand the times, but again, I didn’t

00:40:43

just say that. Initially I said that there is a

00:40:45

huge Layer of questions on which, well,

00:40:47

even those Azerbaijanis and Armenians who are here

00:40:49

so they can communicate normally via Zoom,

00:40:52

they won’t even have similar opinions,

00:40:55

but I would like to move on, still

00:40:56

go back a little, and the prospect of peace

00:40:59

between Armenia and Azerbaijan

00:41:02

will again sound very strange. Do you

00:41:04

think Armenia and Azerbaijan will benefit from this

00:41:07

process? the path to peace, the document and so

00:41:10

on, and a lasting peace needs mediators

00:41:13

because well, as if I would say this from the side, yes

00:41:15

Ilgar will probably open it more widely from here

00:41:18

they say that we are ready for a direct dialogue with

00:41:21

Armenia Let’s meet directly I’ll

00:41:23

just remind you that if I’m not mistaken this

00:41:25

was in 2021 there were even You know, well, after a

00:41:29

thirty-year conflict, unthinkable

00:41:31

things happened, the heads of the Foreign Ministries of Azerbaijan and Armenia

00:41:33

called each other several times, this happened.

00:41:35

This was wild. It even surprised everyone. What wow, that’s

00:41:38

how all the processes have progressed,

00:41:40

that they can call each other from Yerevan and Baku,

00:41:41

and this actually happened, there

00:41:44

was no continuation here is elgar What do you

00:41:46

think? Do we need intermediaries,

00:41:49

again taking into account the fact that Well, probably

00:41:51

no one will deny any intermediary

00:41:53

has his own interest, that is, in Baku,

00:41:55

Yerevan has its own interest, and the

00:41:57

intermediary of which is in the process Well, he is not from

00:41:59

purely altruistic motives

00:42:01

wastes his time elgar talia Roman

00:42:03

Your opinion Yes, thank you very much Sinan this

00:42:06

is a question about tomorrow What

00:42:08

is called about the future Which we

00:42:10

actually agreed to talk about, of course I

00:42:13

reflect on the past, but you need to

00:42:15

think about the future all the time, this is actually what

00:42:18

you know in order to ensure such

00:42:21

self-sufficiency Yes, regional

00:42:23

self-sufficiency If you want Of course,

00:42:25

we don’t need intermediaries, Roman said

00:42:27

that we’ll say that if Lisi is not a

00:42:31

mediator, he’s not a moderator Why should we

00:42:34

go there at all, since his functions are

00:42:37

limited, so we don’t need a moderator,

00:42:39

this is not about the moderator, this is not

00:42:42

about mediation This is a trilateral

00:42:44

forum this is about a trilateral

00:42:47

dialogue I think this needs to be done

00:42:49

how many times Well how many more years will we

00:42:53

need intermediaries who

00:42:56

act as an arbiter who say

00:42:58

you did the right thing you did the wrong thing

00:43:00

for which someone should

00:43:03

turn to advice And that we do

00:43:05

n’t have our own wisdom, we

00:43:08

don’t have political will and all that stuff, of course we

00:43:10

need to develop this resource here in the

00:43:12

region, a resource of trust, a resource of

00:43:15

interaction. Moreover, let’s

00:43:18

look at international practice at

00:43:20

regional practice. Look, in

00:43:22

Central Asia there is a format for

00:43:23

interaction between countries Central Asia is a

00:43:26

very effective format that there are

00:43:28

no conflicts there, but there is a conflict between Kyrgyzstan and

00:43:30

Tajikistan

00:43:32

Border

00:43:34

form Yes Absolutely right, but they

00:43:36

participate in this format they meet, the

00:43:39

last meeting was in Tajikistan and the

00:43:42

president of Kyrgyzstan came there, which means

00:43:46

that they have a

00:43:49

military conflict A very

00:43:51

serious border conflict. That is, this is one

00:43:54

such example that

00:43:56

suggests that this regional

00:43:59

community is very important in modern

00:44:02

geopolitics when we form our

00:44:04

own agenda based

00:44:08

on our own interests, we have common

00:44:10

communications or we should have common

00:44:12

communications in the end, the

00:44:14

general ecology of the clouds that on one

00:44:17

side cross the other side of the borders do

00:44:20

not know the birds that cross one

00:44:23

side the other side of the borders do not know

00:44:26

we generally

00:44:28

know the general cultural to some

00:44:31

extent This is the environment in what

00:44:35

sense of the word that is Look in

00:44:38

Azerbaijanis,

00:44:42

Armenians and Georgians live in Georgia and

00:44:45

communicate normally. Well,

00:44:47

this is probably a good example that we

00:44:50

need to turn to and which can

00:44:54

lead us in a row. Yes, clinging to which

00:44:58

we can come to such

00:45:00

constructive serious decisions

00:45:03

regarding the future of our region, and on the

00:45:06

other hand Look The world around us is

00:45:09

changing very rapidly, it is

00:45:11

changing very rapidly, and often those extra-

00:45:15

regional actors that we are talking about

00:45:18

influence us and not always. They

00:45:21

influence us positively because they

00:45:23

want us to be part of their

00:45:26

political games. That is the question:

00:45:29

do we want we don’t want this, we must

00:45:32

develop our own answer to these

00:45:34

questions. But this must be done in a collective

00:45:37

way, probably interaction within the framework of

00:45:39

this.

00:45:54

Southern Californian

00:45:58

official Yerevan insists more on the presence of intermediaries. I

00:46:01

would still like to understand the Logic here.

00:46:04

Because for me, for example, it’s difficult to imagine if the

00:46:06

officials, again, Elgar

00:46:08

said this now, not in the 15th century, but the

00:46:11

officials of Armenia and Azerbaijan

00:46:13

meet somehow one on one

00:46:15

somewhere on some site and the

00:46:16

Azerbaijani country Well, I don’t know Well,

00:46:18

not physically she will force

00:46:20

Armenia to sign something, this is generally

00:46:22

unrealistic, in the end, you can

00:46:24

negotiate and do nothing Nick,

00:46:26

but Armenia insists

00:46:28

that there be mediators, so Do you

00:46:30

think we need mediators or don’t we

00:46:32

need them? Well, firstly, I want to say that with

00:46:35

most I completely agree with Ilgar’s words

00:46:37

when he answered the question

00:46:40

with almost all of his theses

00:46:42

that were voiced and as for

00:46:45

mediators, firstly, there are

00:46:47

different mediators, I don’t consider

00:46:49

Russia a good mediator. You

00:46:52

said I didn’t even say the word Russia I didn’t even say the word

00:46:54

Russia No you said no no

00:46:57

So I wanted to finish, you said that

00:46:59

all intermediaries

00:47:02

have their own benefit, yes. So there is only

00:47:07

another difference between

00:47:08

intermediaries when the intermediary is

00:47:11

vile and selfish. Yes, and when you

00:47:15

say correctly, he has interests of a political

00:47:17

or geopolitical

00:47:19

nature to compare one intermediary

00:47:22

as vile and selfish as

00:47:26

I wouldn’t go with Russia because Europe is

00:47:28

human rights, it’s

00:47:30

democracy. Yes, I want you to

00:47:32

hear that Europe is human rights,

00:47:35

democracy and freedom of speech, but Russia is

00:47:39

not. Freedom of speech is not democracy,

00:47:42

it’s inhumanity, but that’s why I

00:47:46

still wanted to I would especially like to emphasize for the

00:47:48

presenter that the mediators really

00:47:50

have different weights, different intentions, and

00:47:54

different logics and different souls. By the way,

00:47:58

speaking about Can we

00:48:00

speak directly today, Mr. A,

00:48:04

taking into account the Victory in the Forty Day War,

00:48:07

where Turkey and Russia stood next to him? It’s

00:48:12

not clear that he is a winner, that is,

00:48:16

but speaking at the table and giving orders is

00:48:20

not the same thing.

00:48:22

But as it seems to me, the Leader of Aizhan,

00:48:26

99% of what he says happens

00:48:29

in some kind of orderly tone. Isn’t an

00:48:33

orderly tone a negotiation? I don’t

00:48:37

think so Roman I I’ll clarify again, I’m Okay, I’ll

00:48:40

let’s assume the

00:48:42

officials order Well, this is how you

00:48:44

present this situation and that, again,

00:48:46

I’m saying like Pashinyan goes and does,

00:48:49

he doesn’t do it, as they say, He has his

00:48:50

own head on his shoulders, I do

00:48:52

n’t have this moment I can catch you understand

00:48:54

I’m not on the part of Mr. Aliyev We do

00:48:58

n’t see any negotiations We see some

00:49:00

instructions orders his wishes are not

00:49:03

negotiations these are his wishes so I’ll

00:49:07

remind you once again that yes what I really

00:49:09

said and that’s it I think it’s clear that

00:49:11

Azerbaijan Yes won the Forty Day

00:49:14

War and cannot win, talk to the

00:49:17

loser on equal terms, but the losers

00:49:21

for me are not Armenia, but the

00:49:24

Karabakh Backbone

00:49:26

who fought with Azerbaijan,

00:49:28

you understand The fact is that the current government of

00:49:30

Armenia Nikol Pashinyan and his entire team

00:49:33

are not the Karabakh government, even the Business It’s not

00:49:38

that understand correctly, these are people of a different

00:49:41

logic, these are people who have nothing to do

00:49:43

with the beginning of this

00:49:45

conflict or the first Karabakh war.

00:49:48

These are people who are law-abiding,

00:49:50

disciplined, who have nothing to

00:49:52

do with the drug lord of Karabakh.

00:49:54

You see, I don’t want to

00:49:57

explain all this in detail right now. Yes, but you need

00:50:00

to understand what I mean: why on

00:50:03

earth should Nikol Pashinyan listen to

00:50:05

someone’s orders, if these negotiations are

00:50:08

moving in some reasonable way,

00:50:11

then yes, you can talk one on one, but

00:50:14

unfortunately, by the way,

00:50:16

now it’s no longer so aggressively I remember

00:50:18

after the war, especially the first year we

00:50:21

saw a lot of aggression. Now it

00:50:24

seems to me that everything will more or less

00:50:27

settle down and continue like this. And

00:50:30

if these negotiations in Brussels you and I

00:50:33

see that they bring results,

00:50:36

our Prime Minister spoke about this yesterday, then

00:50:38

why and don’t move on to a one-

00:50:41

on-one conversation. Well, we, specifically, I’m a

00:50:43

small person, I can’t answer for politicians of this rank

00:50:46

and I don’t know what’s in their

00:50:48

heads. Yes, the only thing I

00:50:50

’ll note again is that you said that the intermediaries’

00:50:52

interests, but Europe is different,

00:50:54

believe me, Roma, you’re in Azerbaijan It

00:50:57

will be very difficult to explain to people that

00:50:59

Europe is good because in the

00:51:01

nineties, when we went through

00:51:04

suffering, Europe generally turned around,

00:51:06

they completely ignored everything, and now

00:51:09

they came and said that

00:51:12

let us, that is, in this in this thesis

00:51:15

in Azerbaijan It’s unlikely that anyone will believe

00:51:17

why and why and why Because no, just

00:51:19

a minute,

00:51:22

briefly, briefly, and what’s gray during the forty

00:51:25

-four-day war or

00:51:27

during the blockade it somehow helped if

00:51:30

Russia was there and then also during the

00:51:32

first Karabakh war Russia You’re right

00:51:35

when Azerbaijanis say that they helped the

00:51:37

Armenians, in any case, the same rook. And

00:51:39

now we understand. Why do we need

00:51:41

such Russian help to punish the

00:51:44

Azerbaijanis? Now they are helping the

00:51:46

Azerbaijanis to punish the Armenians.

00:51:48

Europe did not interfere, and then and now it is

00:51:51

leading because Russia sticks out there

00:51:54

because it is Russian there. troops Yes, if

00:51:57

you listen to Comrade Macron, who is

00:51:59

not our friend in Azerbaijan, this of course is

00:52:01

because they didn’t help,

00:52:03

people wouldn’t believe it, again. Dear guests.

00:52:05

There is another such moment, it is from the cycle of the

00:52:07

same painful things, if

00:52:09

you look at our situation honestly

00:52:12

in the region, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, we

00:52:14

still understand that if we have

00:52:17

problems, they are problems, you know what it is,

00:52:19

rather a triangle, this is a problem Armenia

00:52:22

Azerbaijan Turkey, we have complaints against each

00:52:24

other, we have questions, they are

00:52:26

rooted in history Yes, and how to

00:52:30

ignore it It’s not yet known

00:52:32

what kind of conflict it came from. Why is it that

00:52:35

we are tied to each other? Yes, and

00:52:37

I would like to know your opinion.

00:52:40

Sometimes you have a desire that,

00:52:43

well, let’s sit down, the three of us, and

00:52:44

we’ll discuss it all. Let’s set the record straight.

00:52:46

Let’s some- then we will go through a stage in this life of ours

00:52:49

because we somehow persistently

00:52:51

pretend that Well, not us. I mean,

00:52:53

rather, the Armenian country says that

00:52:55

we will have a separate track with Baku

00:52:57

separately with Ankara Yes, but at the same time it

00:52:59

is clear that all three of us if we

00:53:02

have a problem, they are more of a common thing, then

00:53:04

very similar things, such a

00:53:06

desire appears in general, how productive are you reading

00:53:08

that we somehow sat down and once

00:53:10

and for all decided at least something

00:53:12

among ourselves Ilgar your opinion further

00:53:14

Roman yours in general Sanan I I think that it is

00:53:18

necessary, of course, to conduct such an extensive

00:53:20

dialogue, a big dialogue, if you want, with the

00:53:24

involvement of all interested parties in it, in

00:53:27

particular, and in this case,

00:53:31

mainly with Turkey, because in

00:53:33

fact there are a lot of

00:53:34

overlapping intertwined topics

00:53:38

in the interactions between us and Turkey

00:53:42

between Armenia and Turkey and I think that

00:53:45

this process, uh, well, of course needs to

00:53:48

be initiated. And in fact, in this

00:53:51

case, Well, I understand that Roman says

00:53:55

that there are some fears on the

00:53:57

Armenian side that someone will

00:53:59

apply pressure, but as I understand it,

00:54:03

this is a dialogue, there is

00:54:05

pressure themselves are excluded

00:54:09

Because this is not the format of who

00:54:11

should put pressure on whom. I think that I am

00:54:13

certainly interested in such a dialogue. By the

00:54:15

way, by the way, at the inauguration of

00:54:17

the President of

00:54:19

Turkey this year, such an episode

00:54:23

took place. Well, it was not like that.

00:54:32

Yes, this contact can also to be

00:54:35

relevant in the coming days in the

00:54:37

coming

00:54:39

years, by the way, I also

00:54:42

can’t help but note with a remark Yes, about the fact

00:54:45

that in fact the European Union did

00:54:51

not provide practical assistance to us in Armenia, let’s be blunt, but

00:54:54

verbally they all the time focused on the fact that the

00:54:57

nations there accept some

00:55:00

Yes, they didn’t accept them in the nineties But

00:55:02

now they accept these here,

00:55:04

yes, but here’s the question in our

00:55:08

society. Our society has such a natural question. I’ll

00:55:11

tell you, I’ve been dealing with this issue for a very long time.

00:55:13

I still don’t.

00:55:15

I have heard over these 30 years or during the time

00:55:19

that I

00:55:21

have been doing this one way or another for some European

00:55:23

politician of a high rank

00:55:26

to articulate

00:55:29

refugees, this has not happened, I don’t remember this,

00:55:33

this despite the fact that I am already over 50

00:55:36

years old, I owe something - then remember Yes,

00:55:39

some of these are not selective memory. I assure

00:55:41

you, if something like that had happened, I would have simply

00:55:44

remained silent, but it didn’t happen. This

00:55:47

is a sad situation. Unfortunately, it

00:55:50

also does not mean that European

00:55:52

mediation is so ideal, to put it mildly, it’s

00:55:55

clear, it’s clear, your Roman opinion

00:55:58

on this issue of this triangle

00:56:00

And I very appropriately remembered Ilgar

00:56:03

about the participation of the Prime Minister of

00:56:06

Armenia in events in connection with the

00:56:08

inauguration of the President of Turkey there, in

00:56:10

fact, you know, I already said this on air

00:56:11

If someone looked at

00:56:13

the Photos those who don’t know about our conflict, it was

00:56:16

probably difficult for him to imagine that

00:56:18

these people were communicating and joking there, there

00:56:21

was such a warm communication, that

00:56:24

they had actually been in these countries for

00:56:26

30-35 years in such a brutal conflict.

00:56:28

Yes, that was difficult to imagine, but

00:56:30

that’s it- What do you think about the fact that

00:56:32

maybe someday somehow we will be

00:56:34

able to sit down and

00:56:35

talk about everything and somehow remove these

00:56:37

problems from our lives? Well, I would like to

00:56:42

note that for the last 35 years

00:56:45

this Armenian - the Azerbaijani

00:56:47

conflict, Armenians do not have any problems

00:56:50

in Turkey, with the exception of the murder of the

00:56:53

editor of an Armenian newspaper. This was one

00:56:55

such case and there are more than 100,000 Armenians there. And

00:56:59

they don’t have any problems, they love

00:57:01

Turkey, they live there and Armenian tourists

00:57:04

have no problems in Turkey as regards

00:57:06

relations Turkey Armenia

00:57:08

Azerbaijan I You know, when we

00:57:11

talk so much, here we have a Georgian

00:57:13

platform, what does Moscow think, maybe

00:57:15

Turkey, maybe France, that’s why

00:57:19

we have a big mess. Probably

00:57:21

if it would bring more peace, it would be

00:57:24

useful. But

00:57:25

if you mix it up together, I’m not a

00:57:28

politician, not a diplomat, and to be honest, I find

00:57:30

it difficult to answer this question as I

00:57:32

won’t right now. You know, I think

00:57:35

that where they understand, it’s better not to

00:57:37

say, I don’t know how the

00:57:39

Armenian Foreign Ministry looks at it, I don’t know all the

00:57:43

subtleties of this question at all

00:57:47

But I think that

00:57:50

Ilgar Votr said about the resolution

00:57:53

that the euro is generally a third party, after all, Europe

00:57:56

adopted resolutions. I would

00:57:59

like to answer Gar so as not to forget.

00:58:01

How much do these resolutions cost? Yes, if

00:58:04

again, during the day of

00:58:06

fighting, a lot of people died again

00:58:09

number of people children died from

00:58:11

Bomb explosions and How much did these resolutions cost

00:58:13

during the first Karabakh war? When in

00:58:15

seven regions around Karabakh Yes, people

00:58:18

left their homes and what

00:58:21

happened happened Yes, understand correctly And then

00:58:24

the resolution

00:58:25

and now these resolutions of Europe they did

00:58:28

not help during the first Karabakh

00:58:30

war to the Azerbaijanis who left

00:58:32

their homes around Karabakh and did not help

00:58:34

now when 100,000 people left

00:58:37

their homes, so who needs these resolutions

00:58:40

if people are dying? We

00:58:42

are also talking to you now in order to

00:58:44

make the situation more peaceful at least one step.

00:58:47

Perhaps this will work out Perhaps

00:58:49

this is what happens with regard to Turkey,

00:58:52

I want to say to the presenter that it seems to me

00:58:54

that if it will be beneficial, then yes

00:58:57

it should be done, but once again, these nuances are better

00:58:59

known to the employees of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, diplomats. I do

00:59:01

n’t know much about this. It’s on this

00:59:04

issue. It’s clear. Well, I’m on this

00:59:07

positive note. Compared to the entire

00:59:09

content of the conversation, I

00:59:11

propose to end

00:59:14

our conversation on a more or less positive note. We talked for about an hour. I

00:59:17

think that, well, we have made some small contribution to the fact

00:59:21

that we were still able to make a possible dialogue between peoples and a

00:59:23

lasting peace.

00:59:25

Well, let’s hope that in

00:59:27

the future we will be able to meet again in

00:59:29

this format Thank you very much

00:59:32

thank you thank you

00:59:36

very much

Description:

Ильгар Велизаде и Роман Багдасарян о мире между Арменией и Азербайджаном и ненависти между народами 01:50 – Какова вероятность подписания документа о мире между двумя странами? (Ильгар Велизаде) 04:10 – Какова вероятность подписания документа о мире между двумя странами? (Роман Багдасарян) 10:20 – Что можно сделать, чтобы мир, подписанный на бумаге, перешел в мир между народами? (Ильгар Велизаде) 15:45 – Что можно сделать, чтобы мир, подписанный на бумаге, перешел в мир между народами? (Роман Багдасарян) 23:08 – В Армении не осталось азербайджанцев, в Азербайджане практически не осталось армян, может это к лучшему и нет повода для новых конфликтов? (Ильгар Велизаде) 29:09 – Каждый живет в своей стране и нет повода для новых конфликтов. Может так оно и лучше? (Роман Багдасарян) 37:10 – Комментарий относительно беженцев (Роман Багдасарян) 37:58 – Реплика про беженцев от Ильгара Велизаде 41:36 – Нужны ли Армении и Азербайджану посредники на пути к миру? (Ильгар Велизаде) 46:17 – Нужны ли Армении и Азербайджану посредники на пути к миру? (Роман Багдасарян) 52:55 – Какова перспектива формата Азербайджан – Армения – Турция? (Ильгар Велизаде) 56:25 – Какова перспектива формата Азербайджан – Армения – Турция? (Роман Багдасарян) Подпишитесь на канал: https://www.youtube.com/c/CaliberAz Независимый военно-аналитический интернет-проект Caliber рассчитан, как на широкий круг зрителей, интересующихся военно-политической и военно-технической тематикой с упором на регион Южного Кавказа, так и на профессиональных экспертов в данной области. Геополитика, конфликты, специализированная военная и военно-техническая аналитика, информационная война и операции психологического воздействия, вестник со всевозможных оборонных экспо и передовой, особое экспертное мнение и критические выводы - все это и многое другое в эксклюзивном эфире канала Caliber...

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