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гештальт

терапия

конференция

доклад

Киев

gestalt

ВОППГП

мозг

00:00:01

I’ll try to talk about what makes us

00:00:07

human, that is, the brain, and how it

00:00:13

relates to the processes in

00:00:15

Gestalt therapy. I have a very strange

00:00:23

feeling in relation to the material of the

00:00:28

report. It seems to me that there are

00:00:31

only a few theses that I would like to

00:00:33

share on the internet. The report will end with so much

00:00:37

information there is a lot that we will never

00:00:40

part ways, but it’s good that the boundaries are now

00:00:45

known, so we will definitely part ways

00:00:48

after 50 minutes, and I think that I will

00:00:52

need your active participation

00:00:56

rather in my style, but the lecture has an

00:01:00

invitation to joint reasoning

00:01:03

during the lecture to questions, well, if you

00:01:06

are experiencing some of these impulses,

00:01:08

please don’t hold them back,

00:01:11

I don’t guarantee answers to these questions, but the

00:01:14

questions will definitely be important to me because it

00:01:17

will be important to rely on them,

00:01:20

maybe just a couple of minutes, this

00:01:24

would also help me like this, you somehow

00:01:26

heard the topic for some reason, but if you

00:01:29

don’t just pass the time, maybe

00:01:31

there is some area of interest of yours about the

00:01:34

brain about how it is

00:01:39

structured accordingly, how it relates to the processes in

00:01:41

Gestalt therapy, just if you

00:01:42

identify these some interests lot

00:01:58

number one mirror neurons

00:02:01

Volodya the second was the

00:02:04

problem with gauze and here it is now

00:02:08

mercy and sports

00:02:10

all these products

00:02:19

you have

00:02:21

ok that is, localization of emotions means,

00:02:24

respectively, the equivalents of emotions in the

00:02:25

brain

00:02:26

for what why and how

00:02:36

ok

00:02:40

but we work a lot with the

00:02:42

contact cycle, accordingly what

00:02:44

happens in the nervous system in the brain

00:02:46

when we run away what is included in the cycles

00:02:52

happens to the nervous system

00:02:55

there are a lot of gender differences the cycles are

00:02:59

different for women and men

00:03:02

okay yes poehler

00:03:12

play with the local accordingly rest

00:03:17

that is, does anything change at all at the

00:03:20

level of the central nervous system in connection

00:03:22

with psychotherapy and that’s the right brain of people

00:03:27

at the border with dogs they are also people

00:03:29

border guards with the border process

00:03:32

messi speak gestaltization

00:03:53

divide these few seconds this is

00:04:04

this you know this is a really

00:04:09

amazing question because for all

00:04:11

their simplicity the answers to them are very

00:04:13

complex and if there are some other theses

00:04:17

that are not I personally also found it

00:04:38

very interesting, this is the part I

00:04:39

decided to leave for the clinical conference,

00:04:41

but if we have time, then

00:04:45

a minute of advertising, maybe the truth itself can’t be anything

00:04:49

else related to

00:04:51

addictions, chemistry,

00:04:53

okay, that’s a private area

00:04:58

[music]

00:05:06

[music]

00:05:10

localization where everything is after all, this part of the

00:05:12

brain is where what we call these

00:05:14

metaphors lives, well, because the terms are

00:05:17

metaphors, it seems to me good

00:05:20

until the last defeat, the characteristics of

00:05:27

mental processes in case of defeat, the

00:05:32

sense of when a brick hit the head or

00:05:42

ok the very last sense that I understand

00:06:00

that everything is like this for me I understand why

00:06:02

I’m stopping some new experience and

00:06:04

this is a wonderful thread I can’t do well with myself,

00:06:06

thank you, it’s important to me

00:06:18

that the question was asked about a lot of things, really, I

00:06:20

planned to say something with her, well, really,

00:06:24

I suddenly had some puzzles in

00:06:26

connection I didn’t relate it to questions about the cycle of contact

00:06:29

until suddenly now

00:06:30

a fragment was joined to one to one

00:06:32

part of the lecture and I really

00:06:36

thought at first why I was telling all this,

00:06:38

well, like, what does it have to do with

00:06:41

psychotherapy and psychology in general, so in

00:06:44

such a

00:06:45

humanitarian sphere and with what's wrong with the brain,

00:06:48

biology, it's not very beautiful, it's not very

00:06:50

aesthetically pleasing if you look at it, this is it

00:06:52

live in the anatomical theater, but

00:06:58

still I wanted to talk about it,

00:07:01

talk about it rather than my own drive,

00:07:04

somehow for the last year and a half I've been

00:07:07

reading quite a lot, just out of curiosity, from all over the

00:07:10

world of physiological

00:07:12

and literature, and when I read it,

00:07:16

I had this

00:07:19

very cool feeling that the

00:07:22

Christmas tree root, but actually

00:07:23

we do the same thing in psychotherapy, and for

00:07:26

me suddenly some things that were

00:07:28

described as neurophysiological

00:07:30

discoveries turned out to be obvious,

00:07:32

well, obvious presented in the

00:07:35

psychotherapist’s office or in the group room

00:07:37

where we lead this group, this is one part of the

00:07:42

motivation in zone curiosity 2,

00:07:45

as usual, I have it out of protest

00:07:50

when I hear the reasoning of many colleagues

00:07:53

in psychotherapy about what is happening,

00:07:57

some group responses, it is clear that there is a

00:07:59

part of them some kind of learned cliché,

00:08:02

but there really is such an experience,

00:08:04

but these beautiful quotes, the field

00:08:07

works well, like a field that is

00:08:10

endowed with some kind of strange

00:08:13

mystical property, this desire comes to me,

00:08:16

where it comes from, it means how

00:08:18

it comes, well, like an external one -the

00:08:21

object

00:08:22

I connected with this experience, well, as if

00:08:25

this experience is something separate, it means something separate, but I am

00:08:28

somehow separate, well, less strange,

00:08:32

it means like a look with a drag, I feel

00:08:35

your pain, it means, well, I immediately

00:08:37

remember this, my favorite truth

00:08:40

without sarcasm, my favorite battle show

00:08:41

psychics where this hand

00:08:43

reaches out, I see it means everything is how

00:08:46

you work and on the one hand I am

00:08:51

really inspired by romance where stahl

00:08:53

therapy on the other hand for me as a

00:08:55

doctor this is such a victory of spirit over

00:08:58

matter which is a vector is

00:09:02

what irritates me all the time

00:09:04

therefore From this protest, I find it very

00:09:06

interesting, well, to find these

00:09:09

correlations,

00:09:10

sometimes it seems to me that this was a completely

00:09:13

bad correlation, sometimes it is very useful, so

00:09:15

I would like to bring these

00:09:19

reflections to your attention, on the other hand, there is some kind of

00:09:23

historical

00:09:25

background now, but what, for example,

00:09:31

medicine is doing now in its development there is

00:09:34

such a large return loop to the

00:09:39

importance of the

00:09:41

psyche during illnesses, this is the whole

00:09:43

history of which we usually call

00:09:45

psychosomatic psychotherapy in

00:09:49

medicine, well, they call it including

00:09:52

holistic medicine toyz holistic

00:09:54

medicine,

00:09:55

it makes such an unconditional return

00:09:58

loop about the connection between the body and the psyche and in

00:10:02

some way in a sense, it seems to me that

00:10:05

such a thing has also emerged in psychotherapy, but I do

00:10:08

n’t like that word on the other, now there is no

00:10:11

this trend of return loops to the connection of what we are

00:10:14

accustomed to consider spiritual connections with

00:10:17

anatomy to connection with physiology, well, besides,

00:10:21

our processes have this

00:10:23

material substrate and it too,

00:10:25

and since we consider the principle of holism

00:10:29

as the main one, we consider it fundamental,

00:10:31

well, in the theoretical core of

00:10:34

Gestalt therapy, then why don’t we

00:10:35

speculate, well, in general,

00:10:39

the concepts familiar to us from the point of view of

00:10:41

neurophysiology, well, perhaps, probably,

00:10:46

if to the content parts to move on,

00:10:49

then I would like to allow myself to quote

00:10:51

such a famous British

00:10:54

neurophysiologist Oliver Sacks, many

00:10:57

have probably read him, many of his books

00:11:00

have been translated into Russian, and he

00:11:05

writes about the following: neurologists of the early

00:11:07

twentieth century, among whom he

00:11:09

listed and Frieda, were the last in their field

00:11:11

who had holistic

00:11:14

ideas about soul and body,

00:11:16

she and I, and neurology and psychiatry, and

00:11:19

then there was a big split into

00:11:21

neurology without a soul and psychology without a

00:11:24

body, and what made an adequate understanding

00:11:26

of this split made an adequate

00:11:29

understanding of

00:11:31

psychopathology very difficult and

00:11:33

impossible, that is, when we

00:11:35

consider some kind of psychopathology in

00:11:37

either some kind of pathology of contact, if we

00:11:39

speak in the language of Gestalt therapy, then

00:11:43

if we do not take into account this bodily

00:11:46

part, our understanding is very

00:11:48

one-sided and it turns out that somewhere I will

00:11:58

refer to those scientists who

00:12:02

did these experiments, but perhaps the one who most

00:12:06

inspired me to think

00:12:10

about this sphere appeared such as

00:12:14

his own Oliver Sachs, whom he has already

00:12:16

mentioned, there is his student, a wonderful

00:12:20

book translated into Russian, the brain

00:12:23

tells with the complex name Veliander

00:12:25

from each Andron Hindu, he is best

00:12:29

known as the author of these mirror

00:12:32

boxes for the treatment of phantom pain, but

00:12:34

phantom pain is pain that

00:12:36

occurs when a person has an amputated

00:12:38

arm

00:12:39

and there is pain in this amputated arm,

00:12:42

it can literally itch, it

00:12:44

can literally hurt, it

00:12:46

can literally go numb, and he invented such a

00:12:50

simple in its simplicity, an

00:12:52

ingenious device in the form of a mirror

00:12:54

box,

00:12:57

which was placed opposite in opposition to the

00:12:59

preserved limb of a person

00:13:01

had the illusion that this hand was in

00:13:03

place and well, literally it was possible and possible

00:13:07

and you can move it and stretch it, you can in

00:13:12

general and somehow manipulate it, well,

00:13:16

in general, I’ll help, well, literally without

00:13:18

drugs

00:13:19

it reduced the pain syndrome in these patients,

00:13:22

that’s what is known thanks to this discovery,

00:13:25

first of all, there is also such and also a

00:13:31

neurophysiologist, Anil Seth, from Russia, this is

00:13:36

Tatyana Chernigovskaya, such a quite

00:13:38

popular woman on the Internet today, neuro-

00:13:41

linguists, biologist who, in general,

00:13:44

talks about all sorts of these relationships

00:13:47

if we talk about this science of

00:13:50

neurophysiology and is also called

00:13:52

cognitive science, she has

00:14:01

several sources of

00:14:05

information, well, first of all, these are the ones they

00:14:10

can ask you there and that’s why there

00:14:12

may be a phone in your pocket, thank you

00:14:14

very much for opening it with

00:14:21

which we will appeal, that’s

00:14:25

where they come from in general, that is, all

00:14:28

sorts of unfortunate people the animals

00:14:30

that, unfortunately, carry out experiments for some reason are the

00:14:32

most unfortunate, then monkeys,

00:14:35

well, the only similarities with us are macaques,

00:14:39

marmosets, that’s who are most similar,

00:14:41

most in laboratories and suffer, and

00:14:43

rats, this is one source of studying

00:14:47

the brain,

00:14:49

another source of studying is no less

00:14:51

unhappy sick neurological

00:14:53

patients both psychos and psychiatric

00:14:56

patients in general, their brains are

00:14:58

studied in every possible way, this gives us the opportunity to

00:15:00

understand something about our brains, the second

00:15:04

source besides living beings is

00:15:06

such a comparative one, but anthropology is

00:15:10

how the human brain developed from these

00:15:12

fossil remains of all sorts of bones, well,

00:15:16

how our skull changed, how the brain my brain

00:15:20

our brain changed and so on here separately,

00:15:26

but when we talk about neurobiological

00:15:29

neurophysiological discoveries, it’s

00:15:32

probably important to mention the position with which

00:15:34

I agree there are two cardinal

00:15:39

diametrical positions in neurophysiology

00:15:41

in neuroscience: one is that the brain

00:15:45

can still be studied,

00:15:46

and the other is that it is impossible to study the brain, but it

00:15:50

seems to me that it is possible to study the system to the end,

00:15:52

but it is impossible because we study

00:15:55

this system with the same brain, and

00:15:58

it turns out that there are different theoretical

00:16:01

views in relation to what we

00:16:04

call in psychology in psychotherapy we

00:16:08

call introspection, that is,

00:16:10

internal observation there is such a

00:16:12

theory at lunch, trans peppers and the theory of the

00:16:16

homunculus, the homunculus is a little

00:16:18

man, yes, it’s understandable, it’s

00:16:19

a metaphor that Gleb in the brain is a little

00:16:22

observer who observes our

00:16:24

processes and can, like you, analyze them,

00:16:26

why is it considered such a bad theory

00:16:29

because if there is a little man

00:16:32

who are watching us in the brain, it’s

00:16:33

clear this is a metaphor, but he

00:16:36

also has a brain that has a

00:16:38

little man inside who are watching

00:16:40

this little man, well, of

00:16:43

course, he has a little

00:16:44

man in his brain, but in the house that

00:16:46

Jack built, accordingly, everything from Tourettes

00:16:49

generates you have all seen such a

00:16:50

so-called bad infinity, a

00:16:52

bad infinity, on

00:16:54

a train when two mirrors are opposite each

00:16:56

other and the feeling is that this carriage

00:16:58

lasts for you, but in general it completely goes into

00:17:01

bad infinity because it is

00:17:03

meaningless, it is unrealistic in general, in

00:17:07

what sense is it located on the stock exchange in the brain

00:17:11

and the brain is in the world, so it

00:17:13

will be completely impossible to study all this, well, it’s

00:17:16

probably impossible, there are theorists

00:17:20

who say that it will still be possible to

00:17:22

understand everything about it when a quantum

00:17:24

computer is invented, which will bring the calculation

00:17:27

there to a new order, but it is

00:17:30

unknown then who

00:17:31

will study it, we and with the help of a computer

00:17:33

or computers, we will be studied,

00:17:37

okay, if we move on to the content

00:17:40

part, the first thing I wanted

00:17:41

to talk about is the so-called mirror

00:17:43

neurons, there are a lot of things about them, well, in general, that’s what is

00:17:47

said and written, and so,

00:17:52

but mirror neurons like me and some others actually

00:17:57

departments and or

00:18:05

parts of functional muses when we

00:18:07

talk, I don’t want to adhere to the

00:18:09

following scheme, yes, that is,

00:18:11

accordingly, some department, for

00:18:14

example, only mirror neurons, and

00:18:16

then try to answer the question, well, how are

00:18:18

they open,

00:18:20

well, how were they discovered, sometimes these are very

00:18:23

funny and cool and in its

00:18:28

fun, irony and important discoveries

00:18:30

in its history because sometimes there is a

00:18:34

lot in the way the phenomenon was discovered, well,

00:18:36

its essence will be clear later that they have

00:18:40

2 questions - where are these

00:18:43

neurons located, if after all, then some kind of sacred

00:18:45

place in the brain, well, where is it important look and

00:18:48

understand everything, the third question through which

00:18:52

you want to skip all these discoveries is

00:18:54

how it appeared in humans, but why did this

00:19:02

or that part of the brain arise in the process of our existence there and why do

00:19:04

we need it today, but

00:19:07

accordingly, what is this part responsible for? the

00:19:10

human brain and the last question through

00:19:14

which you want to pass all these discoveries,

00:19:16

what does

00:19:18

Gestalt therapy actually have to do with psychotherapy, sometimes it

00:19:20

seems to me that in general this is exactly the very

00:19:23

best place and they and

00:19:26

sometimes it seems but has no relation at all,

00:19:28

so here is your critical

00:19:30

review to me will be yours means they discovered

00:19:34

mirror neurons such a

00:19:37

couple of scientists with for some reason 2 undeservedly

00:19:40

forget often you in the literature cut ties

00:19:43

and orbits they studied unfortunate macaques

00:19:49

discovered neurons accidentally

00:19:52

studied and does not mean what happens to the

00:19:56

brain of a macaque when it performs any

00:19:59

motor activity accordingly

00:20:02

performed some - then the simple stupid

00:20:04

tasks of a macaque are capable of much

00:20:06

more, we were asked to eat

00:20:08

some kind of food, either tasty or tasteless,

00:20:11

what is activated in his brain, what is not

00:20:13

activated, well, we found out an important

00:20:16

thesis here, and that I probably have

00:20:19

psychiatrist colleagues here who can match my

00:20:22

formulation You can quibble if

00:20:24

you have questions, I’ll give you links to specific

00:20:27

studies, it’s just important for me to simplify so that

00:20:29

it’s understandable, on the other hand,

00:20:31

don’t make your story primitive so

00:20:34

that it loses its meaning,

00:20:36

so in general they found out at the

00:20:38

initial stages of the experiment that there’s a

00:20:40

neuron that’s located somewhere

00:20:42

here it lights up when a macaque

00:20:44

reaches for a peanut and the discovery happened,

00:20:48

well, like many discoveries in biology,

00:20:50

by accident, which means it doesn’t matter who

00:20:54

inspects this orbit and goes into the laboratory,

00:20:56

these electrodes are forgotten, and that means this

00:20:58

screen from the macaque means, accordingly, removing it,

00:21:02

turning off the screen and that means a hungry

00:21:05

researcher went into the classroom and started

00:21:07

eating the same peanuts and then this

00:21:10

discovery happened, it turned out that exactly the

00:21:13

same group of neurons is activated not

00:21:15

only when the macaque e100 peanuts and

00:21:18

when, accordingly, the researcher

00:21:20

tries to do it,

00:21:21

and at this moment of the study about well, it

00:21:24

turned out, well, this breakthrough happened

00:21:27

random, yes, but it turned out that mirror

00:21:31

neurons were initially discovered in an

00:21:34

area called the

00:21:35

prefrontal cortex,

00:21:36

but accordingly the cortex, which is located

00:21:39

near the frontal part of the brain, then

00:21:44

according to modern research,

00:21:45

mirror neurons as such a network, well,

00:21:48

actually, are located throughout the entire brain, well,

00:21:50

today this is that

00:21:52

at least the latest information and

00:21:56

for which it turned out that they are responsible, but

00:21:59

through further experiments they are

00:22:02

responsible for empathy, so if the

00:22:07

current example that we all

00:22:09

experienced together was like together when they

00:22:12

talked about the film Antichrists about

00:22:15

others like him, this part was

00:22:17

told about cut off legs about,

00:22:20

respectively, all sorts of horrors that

00:22:23

happened in the form of violence to a boy,

00:22:26

even if we didn’t have the experience of cut off

00:22:28

legs, such an experience of violence, I don’t know about

00:22:32

you, but who experienced the equivalents of

00:22:35

this, raise your hands, well, what are some of the

00:22:37

signs of feeling in due to the fact

00:22:40

that many, yes, now we won’t

00:22:42

organize a vote on this, but it

00:22:44

seems to me that everyone who has mirror

00:22:49

neurons at a sufficiently

00:22:52

medical level

00:22:55

is functioning at a healthy level and listened to this text, the

00:22:58

date of that, equivalents arose or

00:23:01

such with an equivalent and feelings associated

00:23:03

with this picture yes, that is, this is

00:23:08

how the

00:23:10

mirror neuron system works, right in

00:23:13

this audience, what is it responsible for on a

00:23:17

practical level, in general, we

00:23:18

would kill each other as a

00:23:20

biological species if we didn’t have

00:23:22

mirror neurons, but yes, in general- then

00:23:26

the truth is responsible for sympathy and empathy for

00:23:28

the fact that, in general, monkeys are like that when

00:23:30

people who began to live in the stage

00:23:33

had some certain

00:23:35

potentials because value cyanidation in

00:23:37

Tokay’s primary charter was human, they

00:23:41

were forced to take care of each other

00:23:42

because they could not survive alone

00:23:45

that is, these neurons developed,

00:23:47

this is an interesting feature

00:23:53

that has its relationship with just

00:23:58

from under the brain of a borderline organized

00:24:01

client and with evolutionary biology when

00:24:09

different species of animals were studied, well,

00:24:13

I think that you intuitively understand the noise of a

00:24:16

shrimp, there are no mirror neurons,

00:24:22

no, I’ll just try 300 This is a shrimp

00:24:25

and remember in its behavior and it does

00:24:28

n’t have mirror neurons, but a cat,

00:24:35

if it’s a kitten that you raised

00:24:38

in the house, it has mirror neurons,

00:24:41

sometimes of course they work strange for me

00:24:43

when it comes to wake me up in the morning,

00:24:46

this seems to me to be no sympathy a

00:24:47

cat has absolutely no

00:24:55

when and yes she looks like that or when an

00:24:59

animal turns out to be you are very

00:25:01

sensitive to your emotional state

00:25:04

yes well when when what we

00:25:08

call treat protect feel threatened

00:25:11

hug it seems to me that for me

00:25:14

this is exactly what this connection with

00:25:19

pets at the level of

00:25:21

mirror neurons turns out that

00:25:23

I am a supporter that

00:25:25

pets need to be included in family

00:25:27

systems when we consider them to

00:25:29

consider them there, for example, the

00:25:31

loss of the death of a pet just

00:25:34

like the experience of loss and not as a

00:25:37

substitute object just like

00:25:39

some kind of connection there is a program for

00:25:51

constructing a gene gram, which means and when

00:25:55

different species of animals were studied, it

00:25:57

was discovered that the longer

00:26:01

the period of childhood,

00:26:03

the longer the period of non-separation of a

00:26:07

small

00:26:08

individual from an adult individual, the more

00:26:12

powerful the system of mirror neurons,

00:26:17

that is, empathy is our payment for a

00:26:21

long childhood and for a long not separation

00:26:25

from parental figures,

00:26:26

parents need a very long time, well,

00:26:32

guessing for a very long time, you need to read

00:26:35

these reactions for a very long time, you need to be on an

00:26:41

empathic VKontakte and here it is important

00:26:45

to note yes, there is a very connection here there is a

00:26:47

cool topic chamber writes starting

00:26:50

his book of games that people play yes

00:26:53

he pushes away from the thesis about

00:26:54

emotional deprivation

00:26:56

and the fact that this group of

00:27:00

experiments conducted at different times

00:27:02

when the human psyche develops,

00:27:06

including violence in wounds in early childhood and

00:27:08

rough treatment, it supports the

00:27:10

psyche because it helps to detect

00:27:12

boundaries and mirror neurons also develop at this

00:27:14

moment the worst is the

00:27:17

situation, but when parental figures

00:27:20

turn out to be emotionally distant,

00:27:22

these experiments with the so-called

00:27:25

frozen face split face, and when the mother

00:27:27

turns out to be

00:27:28

emotionally distant, this is what

00:27:31

is, well, for example, according to the

00:27:32

research and reflections of Gianni

00:27:34

Franchi network, the experience of melancholic

00:27:36

depression when there is nothing to develop

00:27:39

mirror for example, it is interesting for neurons

00:27:42

that they are practically not detected in

00:27:45

schizophrenia, they are practically not

00:27:50

detected practically not detected,

00:27:52

I mean significantly less and

00:27:55

the detection is on the order of yes, with autism they

00:28:01

will give

00:28:05

in general that but accordingly, like

00:28:10

this

00:28:11

cruel joke, no legs, no cookies, no

00:28:14

childhood there is no empathy, how does this relate

00:28:18

to borderline-borderline

00:28:22

processes organized accordingly, it seems to me that this is my

00:28:26

opinion, yes, you know that due to the fact that a

00:28:28

borderline-organized person

00:28:31

has a violation of the pre-attachment zone in

00:28:36

childhood, this means that the

00:28:39

mirror neuron system lags behind in its

00:28:43

response from a neurotic

00:28:47

organized character, if we talk

00:28:49

about the depth of the lesion, but not the

00:28:50

dynamic concept of personality, but the

00:28:52

depth of the lesion, and here, for example,

00:28:55

this very much correlates for me with the

00:28:59

terms of psychotherapy for borderline

00:29:03

personality disorder, well, for example,

00:29:05

it seems that McWilliams has this

00:29:08

metaphor for that that if a neurotic comes to you for

00:29:11

therapy, then you will

00:29:14

have the feeling as if in a metaphor

00:29:17

you are a mechanic, a car was brought to you at the source

00:29:20

and you will fix it together, this

00:29:22

neurotic and well, you are repairing the car in a

00:29:25

borderline process, respectively,

00:29:28

this is the situation when you both agree that

00:29:30

the machine is broken is the goal of therapy and

00:29:37

this for me means that at the level of

00:29:40

mirror neurons this means that

00:29:43

if this system

00:29:45

has not been adequately formed, but at such a young

00:29:47

age the brain is plastic, then the thesis

00:29:50

from which they also started, but in

00:29:53

their reasoning, then we have

00:29:55

such a system of compensation for video of

00:29:58

stable connections in the brain is possible, yes, that is, the

00:30:01

connections are functional but the connections are not

00:30:04

anatomical,

00:30:05

and in what sense are these rollbacks in

00:30:07

stress to the borderline level of

00:30:08

response, if we have borderline

00:30:11

experience, they are biologically determined by a

00:30:16

separate, very dubious

00:30:19

thought about mirror

00:30:21

neurons. continuation

00:30:23

of the idea before the non-Lannister case

00:30:25

about group consciousness, but

00:30:28

Danil has in an article about working with groups

00:30:30

this concept of group consciousness

00:30:33

that, well, human consciousness is

00:30:35

generally a group phenomenon, but it does

00:30:38

n’t exist alone, I’ve seen it several

00:30:41

times, very cool things are

00:30:44

on the verge of mysticism, but it seems to me that

00:30:46

from the point of view of mirror neurons they are very

00:30:49

well explainable.

00:30:50

Well, imagine a

00:30:52

psychotherapeutic group in which there is a

00:30:54

seriously ill person, and then he

00:30:57

comes in such a serious condition,

00:30:59

you feel physically ill, or for

00:31:02

example, if this is not a situation,

00:31:03

psychotherapy a room where there is a

00:31:06

seriously ill relative,

00:31:08

and here a family gathers or a

00:31:12

psychotherapeutic group gathers and

00:31:14

some kind of conversation takes place with him included without

00:31:18

him being included, so if you

00:31:20

observe his condition for a while

00:31:22

you will have I definitely have this

00:31:25

metaphor that he as if he is saturated with

00:31:27

these contacts and then the level of his

00:31:29

consciousness literally turns out that

00:31:31

the concepts of this kind of stupa are not appreciated,

00:31:33

such a clouded state, well, how can I

00:31:36

forget and is still there, but now his

00:31:38

consciousness is completely accessible to

00:31:40

productive contact, he answers

00:31:42

questions quite cheerfully,

00:31:45

this meeting ends and that’s it

00:31:48

for example, families on some kind of holiday where

00:31:50

there and then this is well, the consciousness is as

00:31:54

if back like a flower that

00:31:57

blooms as one of them curls up for the

00:32:00

night as if something similar is happening, it

00:32:02

seems to me that these are just my

00:32:04

thoughts that this is connected with the system of

00:32:06

just these beautiful mirror

00:32:09

neurons,

00:32:13

this is how they develop, therapy is included,

00:32:16

yes, it seems to me that, like any part of the

00:32:19

human body, we probably don’t have

00:32:23

any, so I thought about the bones, but the bones

00:32:25

also have not been loaded for years, but for

00:32:26

astronauts, then this causes a decrease in

00:32:30

strength; mirror neurons can be

00:32:32

developed either way or otherwise we do it,

00:32:36

we do it, including within the framework of training

00:32:38

programs, for example, we don’t make it explicit,

00:32:42

well, like the type now we will

00:32:43

train mirror neurons there,

00:32:45

this means cramming into mirror

00:32:47

neurons, this is for 30 mirror neurons,

00:32:52

well, when there is this form of work in in

00:32:55

micro-groups of three, when people

00:32:57

meet, these long-term

00:32:59

relationships are formed, it turns out, feels

00:33:01

forced, turns out to be sensitive to

00:33:03

specific people, and that is, the development of

00:33:05

mirror neurons, it seems to me that there are

00:33:07

separate direct sets of exercises for the

00:33:10

development of mirror neurons, but this is

00:33:17

probably what I have in my head, a

00:33:20

hodgepodge of these ideas from different authors,

00:33:23

for example, this year at one of the

00:33:28

intensive courses, Georgy Platonov in a lecture

00:33:31

talked about how to train

00:33:33

therapeutic friendliness, but he

00:33:37

recommended inventing it every day if

00:33:40

you want to train friendliness,

00:33:42

friendly for me, this is such a skill,

00:33:46

empathically and very much, inventing

00:33:48

fairy tales but you meet someone

00:33:51

character today

00:33:53

and come up with a fairy tale about him night in a

00:33:55

simple way he must have a friend

00:33:57

obstacles enemy some story

00:33:59

goal and how it all developed

00:34:02

well or some other exercise

00:34:05

when you sit down at a construction site and make

00:34:08

3 fairy tales and there are three little pigs sleeping

00:34:11

beauty and some Baba Yaga behind

00:34:14

enemy lines, and accordingly, you invite your partner

00:34:17

to think about a Prague fairy tale and try to guess

00:34:20

what fairy tale he’s

00:34:22

thinking about now, and then you narrow the plot:

00:34:26

what place in the fairy tale is he thinking about now, and

00:34:29

what specific place in the fairy tale is he

00:34:31

thinking about now? if he regularly

00:34:33

performs such an

00:34:35

experiment, it seems to me that the mirror

00:34:37

neurons will be very trained,

00:34:41

there are all sorts of cool visual

00:34:43

experiments, for example, this

00:34:45

fly exercise, but the two of us can

00:34:49

play it coolly,

00:34:51

imagine a Rubik's cube, this is the doctrine of 33

00:34:54

by 30 by 30 to and for example there’s a

00:34:59

fly sitting in the upper right corner and now she’s

00:35:02

taking two steps, the top edge

00:35:06

hop-hop now there, well, someone is

00:35:09

making a move, and we can all imagine where

00:35:11

this fly is sitting,

00:35:12

and so, well, it’s like this is empathy for

00:35:15

Mukhin, excuse me, she’s like It turns out that it

00:35:20

develops this system of mirror

00:35:22

neurons and this is such a bridge

00:35:24

in order to talk a little about the

00:35:26

next system of neurons besides

00:35:28

mirror ones in science,

00:35:29

but in general the same principle is

00:35:31

observed here when some kind of discovery is

00:35:34

found, it is believed that all these are supposedly

00:35:36

mirror neurons neurons

00:35:37

among these neurons identified a separate

00:35:39

group of neurons which was called

00:35:41

canonical neurons what kind of

00:35:43

neurons are these canonical

00:35:47

neurons there was such a stage in

00:35:55

human evolution when our ancestors were more

00:35:57

similar to such gophers and shrews than

00:35:59

to monkeys, but they also swarmed on the neck, which

00:36:02

means yes, great, great, great grandmothers about

00:36:04

great-great-grandfathers somewhere under these

00:36:07

trees at night, they swarmed around at night, which is

00:36:08

typical during the day, they slept, they ate all sorts of

00:36:11

insects in their brains, it was discovered

00:36:14

that their vision was without, well, it didn’t

00:36:17

have color perception, they assume that

00:36:19

these parts of the brain that are

00:36:21

responsible for color perception are not there, and so what

00:36:26

climb and I needed to catch bugs under the trees, they

00:36:28

make them and conquer them here by

00:36:30

the way their limbs are designed,

00:36:33

then such a climate change happened

00:36:35

very globally and

00:36:36

in the form of warming, and in general,

00:36:40

there were much more attractive

00:36:42

objects on the trees than these, they were not nutritious and the

00:36:44

bugs on the trees turned out to be well fruits of

00:36:47

different shades, well, mangoes, bananas

00:36:51

of some sort, well, what’s the solution,

00:36:53

these millions of years ago, these

00:36:57

shrews, our great-grandmothers and great-grandfathers, climbed

00:36:59

up a tree, and what did this launch, this

00:37:04

launched 2 evolutionary processes

00:37:06

that developed rapidly and

00:37:08

at the same time the opposition of

00:37:10

this here finger and everything else that

00:37:13

allows you to grab and at the same time the image of

00:37:17

an object that has shades, well,

00:37:20

color ones, that is, color

00:37:22

vision and grasping developed in a very strong connection,

00:37:25

that is, in fact,

00:37:27

these are the neurons that were called

00:37:30

canonical, how they are structured, if I

00:37:33

see an apple, I take the apple, this is one and the

00:37:37

same neural circuit, yes, here I am,

00:37:41

well, it’s like if those who are not only

00:37:45

between people, they are mirrors between

00:37:49

me and the subject, this is canonical, but

00:37:51

it’s clear that these distinctions, like

00:37:53

any statistics, are a message from the stupid to the

00:37:55

stupid, I think this is how it

00:37:58

works for example, it’s very simple, if

00:38:01

I extend my hand, it

00:38:03

instantly gives rise to an impulse, an

00:38:05

impulse that simultaneously

00:38:08

engages the mirror economic forces, and

00:38:11

in Gestalt therapy we call this impulse

00:38:13

intentionality,

00:38:15

this movement to which is

00:38:21

such a basic property of our psyche

00:38:23

to focus on something separate and on

00:38:26

problems to solve this problem,

00:38:33

this is very interesting, is it connected, is

00:38:38

it connected to previous

00:38:41

experience, is this incredibly interesting, now

00:38:43

we won’t talk about it, moreover, here’s a very

00:38:48

interesting experiment in his article,

00:38:50

more beauty is given by Jeanne Franchi

00:38:52

networks, which means it’s an experiment, I read it right in

00:38:54

in this way it was really so

00:38:58

cool how it is connected with

00:39:01

art objects without human

00:39:02

activity, well imagine and why do you need to

00:39:04

go go go to museums I would

00:39:06

outline this thesis like this but imagine without 3

00:39:08

near a Monet painting you look at a

00:39:12

Monet painting and here is your attention hands

00:39:16

repeat the micro-movements with which Money

00:39:18

painted this picture.

00:39:24

through the eye,

00:39:27

further on, there are a lot of hypotheses and how

00:39:31

it is, how the arc is structured, but but with the hands

00:39:34

I repeat what this means, yes, for example,

00:39:36

well, in group work, until often

00:39:38

these mystical mysterious ones are how a

00:39:41

person experienced, for example, the

00:39:43

same psychosomatic symptom about

00:39:45

which, well, accordingly a person

00:39:47

worked in a circle to me through

00:39:49

this system, for example, and it arises, but not

00:39:52

some kind of spirit, it means a saint descended,

00:39:54

it means on you, it means and you felt

00:39:56

this system of well, canonical and

00:39:58

mirror neurons through a drawing through an

00:40:00

object through an action in us is activated,

00:40:03

but for me this is the connection it lies in this

00:40:06

area,

00:40:07

well, for example, further if we talk for

00:40:11

literally a couple more minutes, just

00:40:13

identify two theses and let’s move on to some well,

00:40:15

probably to questions for discussion,

00:40:19

if we put unfortunate

00:40:22

animals aside and move on to at least they often

00:40:24

mean all sorts of neurological

00:40:26

psychiatric There was a patient in Oxford with a

00:40:30

researcher with the last name Weiss

00:40:33

Kranz,

00:40:36

he studied patients with all sorts of well, in

00:40:41

general, forms of strokes, and then he

00:40:44

once studied a patient

00:40:45

who, all along with a stroke, developed

00:40:49

blindness,

00:40:50

and the blindness was right-sided, that is,

00:40:53

the right part of the visual field

00:40:56

fell out,

00:40:59

and then he conducted experiments

00:41:02

exploring the next thing is that in our brain there are two

00:41:05

visual pathways, well, the visual pathway is a

00:41:07

chain of neurons, from the fact that the

00:41:10

signal reaches the retina to the cortex where we

00:41:13

are aware of this signal, there are two visual

00:41:17

pathways: 1 historically older in

00:41:20

human development, the other is newer, and

00:41:23

he investigated what it was like they are arranged

00:41:26

well, and the result was amazing, it means

00:41:30

the person looked at the picture, well, at the

00:41:34

picture in front of him, the left part sees the

00:41:36

right part he doesn’t see,

00:41:39

they put a screen in front of him and sent a light beam into that part of the

00:41:41

visual field that he doesn’t see,

00:41:43

well, he doesn’t see anything there

00:41:46

emptiness and asked to show where

00:41:48

this light beam is and he showed and

00:41:51

guessed, that is, he does not realize it, but

00:41:55

at the same time he guesses absolutely correctly, then

00:42:00

this research led to the

00:42:02

description of this

00:42:04

second visual path, a path that does not

00:42:06

fall into the cortex of the large hemispheres,

00:42:09

this means that you and I all

00:42:12

have experience when we can see something

00:42:14

but not be aware of it and rely

00:42:17

accordingly on these so-called

00:42:19

intuitive impulses, actually this is

00:42:23

what it seems to me over time if this

00:42:26

part of the brain is there continue to be

00:42:28

researched, including a lot of

00:42:30

extrasensory perception, will be able to explain this

00:42:32

phenomenon visual slip sighted blindness,

00:42:34

he called it, if you go

00:42:35

read them in more detail,

00:42:36

this means that in the field of auditory

00:42:39

visual perception there can always be

00:42:41

something that we are not aware of, for which an

00:42:43

impulse exists in our body and

00:42:45

you know how in Renata Litvinova’s film,

00:42:48

and when the heroine approaches the film in the

00:42:52

film, the goddess of the game, you know that

00:42:54

means that means that you can’t go there, that’s

00:42:56

what it means,

00:42:59

well, here’s the basis of

00:43:02

intuition, here are two more theses and ending with the

00:43:08

thesis about nature humor within the framework of the fact that

00:43:14

you travel in tactical groups, it seems to me

00:43:18

that in the Russian-speaking school of

00:43:21

Gestalt therapy in the southern Russian-speaking

00:43:24

schools of Gestalt therapy there is the Odessa

00:43:27

school of humor there is a lot of humor, that’s all for

00:43:29

something hihihaha means this is the very thing, well,

00:43:32

for this criticism, well, so in the zone the fact

00:43:37

that there is a lot of deflection seems to me like

00:43:42

this I have thoughts that this is

00:43:45

really good criticism because it is

00:43:50

important to take into account when humor happens

00:43:54

humor in the brain happens like how we

00:43:58

experience something funny when the

00:44:00

following processes occur in the brain

00:44:03

first there must be

00:44:05

activation of the zone which is responsible for

00:44:08

fear, that is, a situation that

00:44:11

scares us, for example, there is walking and I don’t know where your

00:44:16

boss

00:44:18

slips on banana skins, fear

00:44:21

and then accordingly, if

00:44:26

relaxation occurs, he just falls and starts

00:44:29

swearing, this can be funny if

00:44:32

he falls and hits his head and

00:44:34

starts throwing bricks gushing blood is unlikely to seem funny to you,

00:44:41

they are laughing now because in my

00:44:44

example there is a discrepancy, that is,

00:44:47

first there is a situation of tension,

00:44:50

dash of anxiety, fear,

00:44:53

and why a situation of relief and that is,

00:44:56

the structure, well, anyone that seems

00:44:58

funny to us at the biological level, this is

00:45:00

how anxiety works relief anxiety

00:45:03

relief there are two parts of the brain I won’t

00:45:05

swear in Latin which when a joke

00:45:08

sounds first,

00:45:09

well, this is the part that gets scared and the second

00:45:12

signal is nothing scary, everything is fine, everything is okay, he’s not

00:45:14

funny and they don’t

00:45:20

relax so exactly and such it

00:45:26

has a very cool behavioral

00:45:28

equivalent, you all they probably know that a

00:45:29

smile is a grin, yes, this one is at the level of

00:45:32

biology, how it arises, a

00:45:34

monkey approaches, yes a monkey is our ancestor,

00:45:38

I don’t know yours, our respected ancestor,

00:45:42

so your coach is coming up, that means he approaches you

00:45:46

first, but grins and then when he sees that

00:45:49

you are you and I am me

00:45:51

yes, what is this familiar ball when there is

00:45:53

no danger of scale weakens it

00:45:56

stopped searching and this is a

00:45:58

contradiction it arises at the level of

00:46:00

humor what I want to say about the group is that

00:46:03

if you support the group at least with

00:46:05

clients a high level of humor you need to

00:46:08

be aware of what we support

00:46:10

in including a very strong zone of anxiety and a

00:46:13

zone of activation of experience, frightened,

00:46:16

fear, tension, and so on, and it’s not

00:46:19

that you need to do something about it, I

00:46:21

just think it’s important to remember this,

00:46:27

what we won’t have time to say and come

00:46:30

to the clinical conference

00:46:32

is what our brain makes a decision

00:46:37

6-30 seconds before we create it and

00:46:40

then after making a decision it sends

00:46:44

an impulse to make another decision and it

00:46:47

seems to me that this is the biological

00:46:49

basis of the theory of polarities questions

00:46:52

discussion

00:47:02

trauma in the sense of a brick it seems to me in

00:47:14

my experience before what before

00:47:17

traumatization, the less,

00:47:20

well, there will be a disruption in these connections. I have not

00:47:25

read biological studies, this is

00:47:27

rather my hypothesis, yes, but that the

00:47:30

more

00:47:31

isolated the traumatization, the

00:47:35

later it is, the less disruption of communication, the

00:47:39

earlier it is, the more

00:47:40

chronic it is, the greater the disruption of communication will be. There

00:47:43

was a question here earlier about

00:47:47

the mirror if they

00:47:52

develop enough, is it possible to do this then this

00:47:55

process is not like this in a dream not so

00:47:58

faster example about exercises I

00:48:02

can compose a fairy tale but I don’t want to compose anymore I

00:48:05

the bomb continues to jump the

00:48:09

sensitivity dad but because with this

00:48:12

to do when the spheres

00:48:13

when the stage to experience this at some kind of dobby

00:48:16

logical level, it seems to me that this is very

00:48:19

connected with the fact that in psychotherapy

00:48:26

it is described as the importance of a pause

00:48:33

there will be no pauses, so I specifically within the framework of

00:48:48

mirror neuron systems and

00:48:51

specifically within the framework of

00:48:54

what I said today

00:48:56

I have been researching the literature on what I

00:48:59

think you call psychopathy, it seems to me that

00:49:02

psychopathy you are calling affective

00:49:04

reactions very strong to whom which one as

00:49:11

which one then let’s take it seems

00:49:29

[music]

00:49:31

in general it seems to me that there may be

00:49:36

very different tendencies here, but on the one

00:49:39

hand, the classical one is considered that

00:49:41

subcortical structures to are, well,

00:49:43

where ours lives, but this is madness

00:49:46

from the function of the customs subcortex, well, that a

00:49:49

well-known state of intoxication sets in for all of us,

00:49:51

yes this is also the

00:49:55

fact that but it is extremely active in those

00:49:58

whom you are calling now, this may be

00:50:01

one situation when the

00:50:02

subcortex of another works too hard on the other hand, this

00:50:05

could be a situation when

00:50:07

the braking is too bad, well, you need to watch the

00:50:12

last exercise, we don’t already have these

00:50:27

nerves, we’re just learning to forgive attention, I’ll

00:50:31

think about it sage, I’ll write a

00:50:33

fairy tale about you today, thank you very much

00:50:41

[applause]

Description:

ВСЕУКРАИНСКОЕ ОБЩЕСТВО ПСИХОЛОГОВ, ПРАКТИКУЮЩИХ ГЕШТАЛЬТ-ПОДХОД 13-я Всеукраинская гештальт-конференция "ГЕШТАЛЬТ-ПОДХОД, КАК НАУКА, КУЛЬТУРА И ИСКУССТВО" г. Киев 4 ноября 2017 г. Съемка: Александр Купчик http://gestalt.kharkov.ua/

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