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Russian
00:00:01
declared the alarm level for the gas supply.00:00:04
The energy war is escalating. What does00:00:06
that mean for consumers and companies? Can00:00:09
politics help if prices00:00:12
rise to astronomical heights?00:00:14
Industrial plants have to be shut down in the winter00:00:16
and citizens freeze or can00:00:19
we arm ourselves against it? have to00:00:21
talk to these guests00:00:23
Christian Lindner00:00:25
Federal Finance Minister and FDP boss00:00:28
the SPD chairman Lars Klingbeil00:00:33
the economics Monika Schnitzer00:00:37
Henrike Roßbach from the Süddeutsche00:00:39
Zeitung00:00:41
and the head of the Federal Network Agency00:00:44
Klaus Müller They are guests of00:00:47
Maybrit Illner00:00:51
and she warmly welcomed all guests00:00:54
Let's go dear viewers Gas is scarce00:00:56
and that's why people are now sounding the alarm bells.00:01:00
We have a disruption in00:01:03
the gas supply in Germany. That's how it is defined, so00:01:07
it's necessary00:01:08
to declare this alarm level.00:01:11
Gas is now in short supply in00:01:14
Germany because Putin is getting serious even00:01:17
before we could spell the word embargo00:01:21
Russia Turns the gas tap to00:01:23
export champion Germany in a00:01:25
state of shock.00:01:26
We saved ourselves the fire brigade because00:01:30
we considered the fire risk to be negligible00:01:32
and now it's ablaze. The dream00:01:38
Friday is for the future. That00:01:41
was once in a distant country with00:01:44
growth and peace around it, because the00:01:47
changing times are followed by the climate change00:01:50
Reflection suddenly becomes00:01:52
future policy. Driven00:01:56
by the need of the day, we now have to00:01:58
burn more fossil fuels again. We00:02:01
should also definitely consider00:02:07
letting the three remaining nuclear power plants in Germany run for longer. My concern is that00:02:10
in a few weeks and months we will have a00:02:13
very worrying situation00:02:15
could have and in this situation00:02:18
we must not be choosy00:02:20
specifically if the Federal Network Agency determines a00:02:23
significant reduction in gas imports,00:02:26
exploding00:02:28
market prices can be passed on to consumers unfiltered We00:02:42
warned weeks before a gas embargo that we would00:02:45
decide to00:02:46
stop importing Russian gas.00:02:48
Now Russia itself is turning the tap to at00:02:51
least 60 percent. What are you afraid of?00:02:54
Luckily, we were00:02:58
still getting gas for four months in a phase when00:03:01
many people were already talking about it We talked about00:03:04
turning the gas on ourselves. That helped us to fill the00:03:06
gas storage tank quite a bit.00:03:08
We are now at almost 6000:03:10
percent. Four months ago it looked00:03:12
completely different, but of course that's00:03:14
the case now gas the00:03:18
gas supply is reduced so if Putin gets more and00:03:20
more serious then00:03:22
we will have to dress warmly00:03:24
then we actually have to00:03:26
do everything we can to save more gas ourselves so00:03:29
we will get inflation which00:03:32
we already have and feel00:03:34
an economic recession00:03:36
Downturn Well, we can already see00:03:38
that due to the increased energy prices,00:03:40
the economic upswing that we00:03:42
should have experienced and00:03:44
could have expected after the pandemic has been00:03:46
pushed back.00:03:48
As a council of experts, we had our00:03:50
forecast for this year, our00:03:52
growth forecast from over 4 percent to00:03:55
below Two percent reduced simply00:03:57
because energy prices have risen so sharply00:03:59
and will00:04:01
continue to rise. If there are00:04:03
real supply shortages,00:04:05
then we actually have to00:04:07
expect that we will slip into a recession.00:04:09
Yes, Christian Lindner is00:04:11
our Federal Finance Minister, Mr.00:04:14
Lindner Wednesday yesterday00:04:16
the people of this country are prepared00:04:19
for hard times. They say there is a00:04:21
serious economic crisis coming00:04:23
or we are in it. Four00:04:25
maybe five years of shortages00:04:27
lie ahead of us. I would guess that00:04:30
the citizen that fast evening would like to00:04:32
know how Scarce how expensive these00:04:36
hard years will be is also00:04:38
up to us. We are00:04:41
not only the objects of fateful00:04:44
developments, but we can also00:04:46
act and the00:04:47
federal government is00:04:48
only doing that by describing gas in00:04:52
its scarcity, which we talked00:04:55
about00:04:57
yesterday evening We discussed intensively and00:05:00
then made the decision together00:05:01
for today's part of00:05:04
today's material. This also00:05:06
involves further measures, for00:05:07
example,00:05:12
15 billion euros in guarantees have already been00:05:16
planned into the federal budget for 2022, which are now being used00:05:18
so that the German state can fill the gas storage facilities00:05:21
the original I can shop00:05:23
that is starting now the second00:05:26
thing we can do is take pressure off the prices00:05:28
reduce inflation with the00:05:30
resources the state has i.e.00:05:32
comply with the debt brake the00:05:36
discussion of what00:05:38
can be done the third point still to00:05:40
say specifically next year00:05:43
those00:05:45
A lot has already been done this year to relieve the burden on those who are00:05:48
particularly affected by inflation and00:05:50
price increases.00:05:52
Dieter will explain this to us a bit later.00:05:54
It is then only those00:05:55
who suffer particularly and it is then00:05:58
clearly defined which group and which00:06:00
people will be affected overall00:06:01
The Hartz 4 recipients don't have enough00:06:03
or will the people who00:06:05
work but don't now have top incomes00:06:08
suffer? Yes, I don't want to reduce this00:06:09
only to those receiving00:06:10
basic security.00:06:11
Just one thing has to be clear. With00:06:14
prices rising overall, the00:06:16
state is not in a position to do so Duration00:06:18
on the other hand to be able to subsidize the00:06:21
fiscal options even in00:06:23
Germany are limited or in00:06:24
other words we can00:06:27
no longer afford additional debts00:06:30
because we now pay enormous interest rates even00:06:32
in the state. I don't just mention a number x.00:06:34
Last year the state had00:06:36
four billion euros for his interest00:06:38
paid next year I'm00:06:41
already planning 30 1 so we ca00:06:44
n't continue the politics on pump they00:06:46
are on the left side with Henrike00:06:51
Roßbach not equipped but she00:06:52
sits next to them journalists whether office of00:06:55
the Süddeutsche Zeitung economic00:06:57
suicide of Rosbach social peace00:06:59
in Danger of catastrophic collapse00:07:01
It doesn't sound like00:07:05
this gas shortage is hurting Putin more00:07:08
than it is hurting us,00:07:09
so what the outcome will be in the end ca00:07:13
n't be said yet, but the fact00:07:14
is that of course it's already hurting us now00:07:17
and will cause massive damage in the coming months and00:07:19
possibly years00:07:20
But of course there is hardly an00:07:24
alternative. We can't pretend as if00:07:25
Putin hadn't00:07:26
invaded Ukraine and as if we now have00:07:28
no problem getting gas from him,00:07:31
that's not an option, no matter00:07:33
how hard it is and how difficult it00:07:36
is I can only try00:07:37
to deal with the given conditions as a country00:07:40
because what Putin is aiming at is to00:07:43
fight liberal democracies00:07:46
and shake the peace order00:07:47
and redraw borders.00:07:50
You can't say that with a view to the00:07:53
gas bill, well, we have to do that00:07:56
now We ca00:07:57
n't accept that. I think the00:07:59
damage that would then be caused will of00:08:00
course be much greater. This00:08:02
would mean destroying what has been built in Europe in the00:08:05
decades since the Second00:08:06
World War. Lars00:08:08
Klingbeil, SPD party leader, sounds00:08:10
because it's Tuesday A00:08:12
programmatic speech was given and, among00:08:14
other things, Germany was promised to be the leading power.00:08:17
The left is criticizing00:08:21
them today and saying they should not00:08:23
put Germany at the center of Europe00:08:24
but rather they should finally put the citizens00:08:26
back at the center of their politics.00:08:28
The question is simple: can and how much00:08:32
must this be done Federal government tomorrow and00:08:35
the day after tomorrow go beyond the layoff packages00:08:37
that are now on the table00:08:39
for 22 okay that was a00:08:42
few things together for the first time00:08:43
I think it's right if Germany00:08:45
takes the lead I just use the example00:08:47
of Ukraine's candidate status that00:08:49
was decided today It was right00:08:51
that Olaf Scholz led the way for the federal government00:08:52
and that 27 states have00:08:55
now followed. This is a00:08:56
leadership00:08:57
wish and that is good. The00:08:59
citizens Christian Lindner described this.00:09:00
We have put00:09:02
the focus very clearly in two coalition resolutions.00:09:04
We have over00:09:05
We have taken 30 billion into our hands, we00:09:06
have started to relieve the burden, we are00:09:09
absorbing what these crises and they are very00:09:12
diverse crises, what they mean for00:09:13
the country for the citizens00:09:15
and I want to take up one aspect again. The00:09:17
window has just said00:09:19
yes We fought as a party00:09:21
but also the government so that we don't00:09:24
get to the gas embargo. We received a lot of00:09:25
criticism for it, as I00:09:27
remember that I was sitting here with00:09:28
Friedrich Merz. You00:09:29
simply said the sentence then00:09:32
we'll turn Nord Stream 1 from today We're00:09:34
happy that we've been there for over four months, you00:09:36
just described it, that we've00:09:38
filled the gas tanks, that we've00:09:40
reached 60 percent today, but that00:09:41
also shows that the00:09:43
federal government was right that we thought about the second and00:09:45
the third and the fourth step00:09:47
and have always asked00:09:48
what does that actually mean? As a00:09:49
result, many people thought we00:09:52
could00:09:53
stand in solidarity with Ukraine and that would have no00:09:55
impact on us and I think it's00:09:56
right that we00:09:58
stand in solidarity with Ukraine and that's what we do00:10:00
also very clear but also takes aim00:10:03
something is happening with us and we have to keep00:10:04
our father quiet for months things hang00:10:06
together klaus müller is with us he is00:10:08
switched off from the band the president of the00:10:10
Federal Network Agency a good evening to00:10:14
Bonn Mr. müller00:10:16
overall you are having an exciting day today and00:10:19
of course one with many interviews it00:10:21
has been decided by the00:10:22
federal government not to pass on the increased prices00:10:25
to consumers yet00:10:28
that can be explained with Section 24 tell00:10:32
us again why you haven't done it00:10:37
because the current situation is not yet00:10:41
such The Federal Network Agency00:10:45
would actually talk about a substantial reduction in gas flows. We want to00:10:47
observe this over several days. There00:10:50
is at least the chance, even00:10:52
if it is unlikely, that Putin00:10:56
would increase the gas flow via Nord Stream 1 again. Conversely, we know that00:10:59
it is an annual Maintenance of Nord00:11:01
Stream 1 is that in other years there has00:11:04
never been a surprise, no00:11:05
news at all, but from July 11th00:11:08
we expect that the gas00:11:10
flows over this line00:11:12
will go down to zero, so we will observe the00:11:14
situation and the instrument that you00:11:16
mention There would have been drastic00:11:19
consequences for the price increase00:11:21
that has already happened, that00:11:23
the price increase of the last few00:11:24
months would have been a big00:11:26
step on top of that, that we had to be very, very well00:11:29
considered and considered. The00:11:31
federal government has00:11:33
basically already taken the energy suppliers into account00:11:35
They also had to decide whether00:11:38
they wanted to let the municipal utilities go bankrupt00:11:41
or raise their customers.00:11:45
Today it's not about the00:11:49
municipal utilities or someone else going bankrupt.00:11:52
Today we still have a stable00:11:55
supply of gas at a low level. In the future, the level is too low Let's00:12:01
talk about a tense00:12:02
situation, which is why this morning the decision was made00:12:05
to raise the alarm level. The00:12:07
Federal Network Agency has00:12:09
calculated various scenarios under00:12:11
different circumstances as to how00:12:13
the00:12:14
gas storage facilities would develop in the autumn and winter and we00:12:17
have come to the conclusion00:12:18
depending on what Mr Putin does00:12:20
Depending on how we00:12:23
ourselves in the industry00:12:25
save gas for private consumers, there are00:12:28
different results and they did00:12:30
n't make us happy, but00:12:31
we now have to00:12:33
develop further activities from this. We will00:12:35
certainly00:12:37
talk about coal-gas power generation later. We will00:12:39
talk about it like Mr Lindner rightly00:12:41
mentioned that we can buy gas, the00:12:43
liquid gas terminals are on the way to the00:12:45
German North Sea coast. These00:12:47
are activities that are important.00:12:49
At the moment we are talking about00:12:51
avoiding the gas emergency or shortages. You00:12:53
can00:12:55
also use this alarm level Let's00:12:56
explain now coal-fired power plants are starting00:12:59
to be used again. You mentioned this eleventh00:13:02
seventh, which is undergoing00:13:04
a ten-day maintenance for Nord Stream 1, I00:13:06
think and that means you00:13:10
now only assume that the gas will00:13:12
come back or00:13:14
assume that it won't come, that's00:13:16
a look In the snow globe00:13:18
I understand that correctly,00:13:20
that is absolutely correct, the famous00:13:22
crystal ball. What we know, however, we have00:13:25
heard and analyzed is the speech00:13:27
by President Putin from last00:13:29
Friday and I fear at some point00:13:31
historians will classify this speech as very,00:13:34
very drastic because in00:13:36
this speech Putin In principle, the00:13:39
decades-long relationship has been terminated.00:13:41
Russia has reliably fulfilled contracts00:13:43
in all crises over the decades in the Cold War00:13:46
and gas00:13:48
was delivered00:14:01
Is it possible to ramp up to a hundred00:14:03
in a continuation to the 40 percent00:14:06
that we have today but unfortunately also a00:14:08
gloomy scenario Ms. Rosberg the00:14:10
consumer advice centers are now calculating00:14:13
price increases of up to 20,000 euros for a family of three, additional00:14:16
payments for gas alone if it is00:14:19
now 20,000 euros in 2000 what I00:14:22
said I have 2000 additional payments for00:14:25
gas pardon00:14:26
if now there is actually a further00:14:28
price increase and what do00:14:30
you do then we need 13 salary00:14:32
we save the summer vacation00:14:34
so00:14:35
really needy households demos00:14:38
definitely the state will00:14:39
help of course that's the first thing Sometimes00:14:41
it happens with the heating cost subsidy, but00:14:42
then00:14:44
the basic security will certainly be adjusted to the00:14:46
subsistence level, etc. This will00:14:49
also happen for everyone else, of00:14:51
course, but it will also be a heavy burden.00:14:53
Yes, that is of course completely clear and yes,00:14:55
it will have a negative impact on consumption00:14:57
Effects Some families will00:14:59
then really think about whether they00:15:03
can afford this or that holiday trip. You can only advise people00:15:06
that they try to save energy wherever00:15:09
possible and that they try to00:15:11
save money and00:15:12
perhaps increase the additional costs in advance00:15:13
on a voluntary basis So that00:15:16
in the end not so much comes together,00:15:17
but of course there are a lot of00:15:18
families and and and and constellations00:15:21
in the country where that is rather difficult because00:15:23
the buffer is not particularly00:15:26
large now to build up large reserves for the gas bill in00:15:28
ten months,00:15:31
yes It will be that this is where00:15:34
the recession will come00:15:36
from, among other things. It is clear that we00:15:38
can pay for energy and then we will00:15:39
no longer be able to spend on other things and that00:15:42
is of course also part of the problem.00:15:44
We have to, Mr. Müller, can you00:15:46
help us even more When describing00:15:47
people who heat with oil or electricity,00:15:49
they don't have these problems with regards to00:15:52
the glass and only suffer, in00:15:54
quotation marks, from Ireland's00:15:56
inflation.00:15:59
Well, inflation is largely00:16:01
driven by the overall energy price and we00:16:05
have also00:16:07
seen price increases in the electricity sector, as we have in the00:16:09
oil sector Looking at the price increase,00:16:12
in a certain sense it also has something to do with the00:16:14
oil embargoes against Russia,00:16:16
which of course also00:16:18
drove up prices. When it comes to gas, the price jumps are of course00:16:21
the most extreme. I'll give00:16:23
you a figure. Before the crisis, we had00:16:25
a level of around 20 euros00:16:28
cubic meters of gas if we now00:16:30
look at today's gas exchange then00:16:33
we are at over 130 euros, a00:16:36
six-fold increase that does not reach00:16:38
private households one-to-one. There are00:16:41
a number of dampening00:16:42
factors, but for example in the00:16:44
industry with commercial customers and00:16:46
weakened This will also have an impact on private00:16:48
households in the next00:16:50
few months and next year.00:16:52
There will be very00:16:54
serious price jumps and the money00:16:56
will be given to Russia, among other things, that there is00:16:58
no satisfactory situation.00:17:02
How can00:17:04
consumers ask one last question? Then prepare for the next stage,00:17:05
i.e. the emergency stage,00:17:09
if there is really no gas and00:17:12
there is no gas at all,00:17:15
you can't have it, that00:17:17
's completely right and in the00:17:20
emergency stage if it came where we00:17:23
are not yet, then00:17:25
European law would apply There is a00:17:27
European protection regulation that00:17:29
means and states that00:17:32
groups that are particularly worthy of protection are00:17:34
hospitals, nursing homes, barracks but00:17:37
also private households, that here00:17:40
the Federal Network Agency would then have a00:17:42
special task, namely to decide on too00:17:44
scarce gas, also in the allocation,00:17:47
that these groups00:17:49
be particularly protected, which means we00:17:51
would first have to make decisions with other industrial customers00:17:53
whose00:17:56
consequences00:17:58
would be terrible and increasing, but we would00:18:00
protect private households for as long as this00:18:02
was somehow possible and thanks to the00:18:04
inflows from Norway, Holland, from00:18:06
Belgium, the LNG terminals, the00:18:09
floating ones We are bringing about the00:18:11
conversion from coal to gas00:18:13
from coal-fired power plants, which I assume00:18:15
that we should be able to do, but00:18:17
for industry that would probably be a00:18:19
very, very terrible scenario, so00:18:22
again, we can now00:18:24
do everything we can to avoid that,00:18:26
you almost have to say Freezing for00:18:29
peace sounds almost harmless when it comes00:18:32
to it now that the entire00:18:35
industry is00:18:37
drawing up emergency plans. We have a00:18:40
lack of material, we have a00:18:41
lack of workers, a lack of00:18:43
energy. This is an unprecedented00:18:46
situation, that's how it is an00:18:48
unknown situation00:18:50
but above all my main concern is the people who do00:18:52
n't know how they are00:18:53
going to finance their lives and I say quite00:18:56
openly I have a lot of worries that00:19:00
sometimes keeps me up at night but at the00:19:03
same time this big worry has to lead to a lot of00:19:05
concentration00:19:06
so that we can now Doing the right thing00:19:10
and deciding two things have to be00:19:11
separated from each other. There are00:19:14
economic and physical consequences.00:19:16
Economically rising prices, that's why00:19:18
we have to relieve the burden. You have just00:19:20
mentioned the price increases. A00:19:23
family of four, both of whom work, two00:19:25
children. However, we have already00:19:27
relieved them for this year with over 100000:19:29
euros a month you also have to say we00:19:32
have economic aid for00:19:33
companies. They talked about municipal utilities00:19:35
that00:19:36
could get into difficulties. We have just given the00:19:39
Gazprom Germania company state00:19:43
support so that it doesn't00:19:45
have an effect like it did at Lehman00:19:47
Bank ten years ago On the other hand,00:19:50
we have the physical shortage00:19:52
that we fear, which is why we have now raised the00:19:54
alarm level and we have been preparing for this for a00:19:56
long time. We are paying for the00:20:00
LNG terminals that have already been mentioned, so these are00:20:02
ships that arrive to00:20:04
work on the liquid gas so that it is00:20:06
distributed in our pipeline00:20:09
We can speed up the process for00:20:11
renewable energy in our country.00:20:14
Otherwise, we are also trying to00:20:16
diversify. Now the00:20:18
coal-fired power plants are being taken out of the reserves,00:20:20
which, by the way, I don't00:20:26
see as an ingenious triviality because we also have00:20:28
ambitious climate goals and I would like to00:20:30
go further because We have such a00:20:32
critical situation in the next00:20:34
three to five years I hope it's00:20:37
less short but at least for the00:20:39
less long sorry but00:20:41
at least for the prices it will00:20:44
take some time I mean we00:20:46
can't allow ourselves any taboos for me00:20:48
that means we Do everyone want00:20:50
to import green hydrogen into Germany?00:20:52
That's what I meant in the single player when I said00:20:54
don't be picky. I'm also00:20:56
willing to buy red hydrogen from France,00:20:58
i.e. the hydrogen that was00:21:01
made with nuclear energy and I00:21:03
would also be willing to discuss00:21:05
our remaining00:21:06
nuclear power plants in Germany at some point to continue to00:21:09
use to use everything to00:21:12
reduce prices we will definitely get to this00:21:15
nuclear discussion I00:21:16
would like to ask beforehand00:21:18
whether you see possibilities where the state00:21:20
can also save money, so the request00:21:22
that the citizen should save the food in the00:21:25
room We should get as new things as possible, from the00:21:27
sealed windows to00:21:30
the thermostats for the heating.00:21:34
From your point of view, there are also things where the00:21:36
state can go into savings mode and00:21:38
say we can also save energy in our00:21:40
ministries and other places00:21:42
Do that in the00:21:44
Ministry of Finance Of course we can00:21:47
also save energy at the start by, for00:21:50
example,00:21:52
pushing ahead with the energy-efficient renovation of the buildings.00:21:54
That takes time, but that's00:21:56
not something that works ad hoc, so00:21:59
in this respect00:22:01
I think the state's task is00:22:03
now rather different, namely the00:22:06
energy supply To ensure supplies,00:22:08
for example with gas,00:22:10
on the other hand, to00:22:12
ensure that people00:22:15
can lead their lives and to ensure00:22:17
that we do not have an economic structural00:22:20
crisis like the one that could threaten00:22:23
if we don't make the right00:22:24
decisions. So00:22:25
we are in your coalition In your group,00:22:29
Mr. Klingbeil,00:22:33
colleagues complained today that not00:22:35
enough precautions have been taken, that00:22:38
energy is saved, that tenants are not00:22:41
protected in a situation when00:22:43
the gas tap is suddenly turned off, and there is00:22:45
a warning that00:22:47
companies should not be involved in this Go bankrupt00:22:49
your colleagues in the parliamentary group are00:22:51
very worried Maybe they are00:22:53
because everyone is a citizen I think we00:22:56
are all worried so that was yesterday00:22:57
I think I can reveal that was00:22:59
yesterday in the coalition committee that00:23:01
was very serious and we know which ones00:23:04
The situation is serious, we are00:23:06
still at the moment where we can act,00:23:08
which is why I believe it is a00:23:09
national effort that politics is the00:23:12
company that everyone is asking themselves where00:23:14
can we save what can we00:23:15
do together? The most important thing now is00:23:17
that the storage facilities are filled00:23:18
We have to work on it,00:23:19
it is important that alternatives00:23:21
are developed, we see that we have00:23:24
addressed this at the LG Christian Linder, that we are making faster00:23:26
progress than actually planned. We00:23:28
have to accelerate the issue of00:23:30
renewable energies, so all of this has to00:23:31
happen and at the same time00:23:33
the citizens need it But there is00:23:34
a certainty that, for example,00:23:36
no one will lose their apartment because they cannot00:23:41
bear the energy costs for the next few months and that is a00:23:42
protective shield that we propose to00:23:44
discuss the will of the coalition00:23:45
for the tenants00:23:47
and that is first of all important for the00:23:48
people who I also think that people are willing00:23:50
to save energy, they care about it,00:23:52
they just recognize the seriousness of the situation,00:23:54
so I think everyone is currently00:23:56
discussing at home what can we do to00:23:57
save energy, but there also has to be a00:24:00
certainty, a reliability00:24:02
that no one will lose their apartment00:24:03
Loses due to rising00:24:04
energy prices We ask the economist again00:24:08
what would you think is what00:24:11
citizens can do now and what should00:24:12
politicians do first in the situation00:24:14
we are in? Yes, I think you00:24:17
actually have to give people the right00:24:19
signals This is exactly what happened00:24:22
with this alarm level. On the one hand,00:24:23
the price will rise. If it were to00:24:26
rise now, you would00:24:27
notice it immediately. People have to00:24:29
react immediately, including through appropriate00:24:30
appeals. So as a citizen, I have to00:24:34
think about what can I do to00:24:36
save gas And of course you can00:24:39
think of energy saving measures,00:24:41
energy renovation, that00:24:43
probably wasn't that quick, we do00:24:44
n't have the material, we don't have00:24:45
the strength to install it, and then let's look00:24:48
at an example back00:24:50
in the 70s when people were00:24:53
thinking about it in Japan What happened with the00:24:54
oil price crisis and then they00:24:55
acted very pragmatically? For example, they00:25:00
wrapped heating pipes in the basement in order to simply take this insulation00:25:03
themselves and that means they00:25:05
did things like that very pragmatically. They00:25:06
said in the company one up00:25:09
down I'm going one Go up the stairs if I00:25:11
want to go to the next floor I go00:25:13
down two flights of stairs I don't use an00:25:14
elevator so measures like this would00:25:17
help and by the00:25:19
way that's exactly the00:25:21
need of the hour for the companies now.00:25:23
Things like gas are now planned would also help00:25:26
Auction model means00:25:28
asking companies who can do without gas,00:25:30
who is willing to00:25:32
do that for so much money in order to00:25:35
save it, which means on the one hand that magical00:25:37
elements actually allow prices to work00:25:40
and compensate for it and00:25:42
at the same time also appeals that are for00:25:45
some people actually00:25:46
something that motivates you one up down00:25:49
a saying like that and in Japan it is00:25:51
now anchored in the DNA00:25:53
he has already commented on it so00:25:55
we should change shower heads because you00:25:58
can also save money, the thermostats00:25:59
should be edited but with the idea in mind00:26:01
We don't have00:26:03
to give any electricity rating yet. There is00:26:06
no gap in gas, we have a00:26:08
shortage and that's why the first00:26:10
commandment is to stop using gas to00:26:14
produce electricity. That's exactly the00:26:16
first thing. We need the gas for00:26:19
heating in the winter.00:26:20
We need that Gas in certain00:26:21
industrial processes Why is this00:26:24
only happening now? I'm sorry,00:26:25
you could have said straight away that's what it is.00:26:27
So grass is expensive, very very00:26:29
valuable and as we can now see,00:26:31
why is it only now happening?00:26:33
We shouldn't do it under any circumstances00:26:35
continued to be used for electricity production00:26:37
yes we have been working on this shortage for a long time00:26:41
now we can now see the consequences00:26:44
of the war in Ukraine and Russian00:26:46
politics much more clearly and why00:26:49
the gas storage facilities in Germany are00:26:50
now so well filled because we have of course00:26:53
already worked with them We have had to deal with these00:26:55
shortages and have managed them,00:26:57
but now the situation is even more00:27:00
serious and that's why I am appealing.00:27:02
We need gas for something other than the00:27:04
production of electricity. By the way, there is another00:27:06
side effect: the gas power plants are00:27:08
the most expensive in Germany, they are00:27:10
the last ones to be switched on and00:27:12
then the price of the00:27:14
gas power plant determines the total energy prices and00:27:18
the total electricity prices, which means that the00:27:20
producers of solar and wind energy are00:27:22
currently making very high profits00:27:24
because the gas price influences this and00:27:27
if we get out of00:27:29
the silence and safe heating with the gas power plants we00:27:30
need them for production And land is00:27:32
even needed as a vital00:27:35
material because we use industrial gases for00:27:37
the chemical industry as well. Of course there00:27:38
are certain production processes that only work00:27:41
with gas and when there is no more gas it00:27:44
comes to a standstill. Now, in my00:27:46
opinion, this is very critical when certain00:27:48
systems are completely shut down If they are shut down if there is00:27:50
no gas, they are broken and00:27:53
then they are not rebuilt in Germany00:27:56
but then new00:27:58
investments are made abroad in Asia and that is00:28:01
the structural crisis that can threaten00:28:03
due to the gas shortage which we00:28:05
absolutely have in the interest of our00:28:07
prosperity of the year Having to avert 203000:28:11
Mr. Russwurm talked00:28:12
about the comedy industry here in the show, among other things.00:28:14
Such a ceramic flag,00:28:16
once it gets cold, it's00:28:18
just glass. Well, that means we can00:28:20
maybe still make the pills,00:28:22
but it will be difficult to make the glass container00:28:23
using them Pills are Mr.00:28:26
Müller, you have already00:28:27
indicated that if these deliveries of00:28:30
gas stop tomorrow, which we all don't00:28:33
hope for, but that is also a00:28:35
scenario that you have to reckon with.00:28:37
What criteria do you use to decide then00:28:39
it would be00:28:40
vital and you can continue to work00:28:44
and do business and who doesn't?00:28:48
So first of all we had to realize00:28:50
that for the scenario you00:28:52
describe, which would require a decision by the00:28:54
federal government,00:28:55
namely to declare the third stage of a gas emergency,00:28:58
that the Federal Network Agency00:29:03
was not really well prepared for this situation, which is why we00:29:04
started with it right at the beginning of March00:29:07
Together with the BDI and BDA from00:29:10
the energy industry and00:29:12
industry associations, we have to say where do we draw00:29:14
the line, where do companies00:29:18
receive specific decisions from us and what criteria and what00:29:21
information does the Federal Network Agency have to00:29:22
have and to be able to make decisions? That's what00:29:25
we have with the two of them associations and00:29:27
the Federal Ministry of Economics,00:29:28
we then immediately00:29:30
started programming an IT platform.00:29:32
We learned a little,00:29:34
I would say, from the analogue00:29:36
decision-making world of Corona.00:29:38
Such future decisions must be00:29:40
made digitally, both from the00:29:42
information flow from the industry00:29:44
to the Federal Network Agency and00:29:46
vice versa. The problem is Only00:29:48
projects like this take time. They also have to be00:29:50
very secure. I don't want to00:29:55
experience a successful hacker attack against such a decision platform00:29:56
and as soon as this platform is in place, which00:29:59
unfortunately won't be the case tomorrow,00:30:01
then we can understand the supply chains00:30:03
then we can avoid the00:30:04
business and00:30:05
economic damage Understand00:30:07
the effects this has and then00:30:09
we will try to make a decision00:30:11
that minimizes these negative effects,00:30:13
but of course it depends on00:30:16
how much gas we have in the00:30:17
storage and how much we get00:30:19
and if we manage to have this00:30:21
gas storage until the autumn00:30:23
Then we would get through one winter,00:30:26
namely the next one, and00:30:29
he shakes his head no, unfortunately00:30:33
not to give him a feeling while the00:30:37
storage tanks in Germany are mathematically00:30:39
100 percent full. We are still a long way00:30:41
away and00:30:43
we would have one If we were00:30:45
to experience an average winter that would now be00:30:47
particularly warm or cold again, then if00:30:50
we were to completely00:30:51
abandon Russian gas due to00:30:54
Putin's decision, for example, we could only00:30:56
supply ourselves for two and a half months and00:30:59
then the storage facilities would be empty.00:31:00
Neighboring European countries and their00:31:03
interests are not even taken into00:31:04
account That means the storage00:31:06
is essential, but00:31:08
I have rarely experienced winters that last two and a half months00:31:10
and so we have to00:31:13
do more, we have to get him additional gas.00:31:15
Darwin, Mr. Lindner and00:31:18
the blades at Leben have pointed out that it is very00:31:20
crucial and we have to00:31:21
save it, we have to have an exciting one00:31:23
additional shopping and when does00:31:26
this shortage then become a shortage that00:31:28
leads to individual sectors or00:31:31
individual companies initially00:31:34
having to take their foot off the gas?00:31:36
That would be the case if we actually had a very real shortage in a00:31:39
third stage that the federal government00:31:41
would have to decide00:31:44
As of today00:31:47
we are worried the situation is tense00:31:49
very tense but we are still getting00:31:52
gas we can even store gas00:31:54
the numbers from this morning were 0.300:31:57
percentage points we have stored one00:31:59
which is slightly below the average of00:32:01
the last few weeks but gas is still flowing00:32:05
that is But a situation in the summer in the00:32:07
summer people don't heat and we00:32:09
have seen that the industry has00:32:10
already partially reduced it, not00:32:13
enough but they have reduced but the00:32:15
summer still lasts about three months.00:32:18
In three months the heating season begins00:32:20
and that's why the federal government has00:32:21
decided to declare the alarm today00:32:23
with all the measures we have00:32:25
just heard, optimizing00:32:27
the heating, preparing for more00:32:29
Spanish Haßmann, we need time so that we do00:32:32
n't start to get hectic in our hearts.00:32:34
In Europe,00:32:37
the neighbors are now selling these00:32:39
gas reserves away from each other. Europe is like that of00:32:41
course, that's00:32:44
exactly the problem where does the gas00:32:45
actually come from? We have00:32:48
gas reserves in Europe. A lot of it comes00:32:50
from outside Europe,00:32:52
by the way, at the moment more because the gas price has00:32:55
risen so much. The increased00:32:57
gas prices have led to America,00:32:59
for example, now receiving more gas00:33:01
Tell us how we are going to distribute this in Europe,00:33:03
this should also00:33:05
be coordinated politically, so00:33:07
of course solidarity is required at this point. It ca00:33:09
n't be that we are competing with each other,00:33:10
but in fact we00:33:13
are all interested in bringing as00:33:15
much as possible from outside Europe here too00:33:17
That means there is00:33:18
a risk that in the end each country00:33:20
will freeze on its own in the winter.00:33:22
In the end we have to think about how we can00:33:26
best direct it to the individual00:33:28
countries. Of course, the00:33:30
market will only play a role in who has it00:33:33
best options to00:33:35
substitute so who can, for example00:33:36
in France I don't need gas00:33:38
for electricity so who can00:33:40
get along well with other measures and00:33:45
price is always the best instrument to00:33:47
control that and it sounds too long ago it00:33:49
all depends All in all,00:33:52
the goal is never to buy gas and oil from Russia again,00:33:57
so never again would be difficult for me00:34:00
because I don't know what the00:34:02
development will be, but Putin has given00:34:04
someone complete00:34:05
independence.00:34:06
That's the goal, which, by the way, is in the00:34:08
coalition agreement We00:34:10
have concluded that we00:34:11
want to modernize Germany, that00:34:13
we want to reposition Germany's energy supply,00:34:15
that we are00:34:16
very consistently following the path of renewables00:34:19
and that this urgency, which we have00:34:21
already laid down in the coalition agreement,00:34:22
has00:34:24
increased even further as a result of Putin's war. I am deliberately asking a00:34:26
complete question independence,00:34:28
no longer be dependent on oil and00:34:31
gas from Russia or would you00:34:34
like to keep a door open there too? No,00:34:37
I think if we go the route of00:34:38
relying entirely on renewables00:34:40
if we as Germany are the country00:34:42
that creates that on innovation If00:34:44
new technologies are based on new00:34:45
business models, then that is00:34:47
also something that many other countries will00:34:49
orientate themselves towards, where we show that00:34:51
this path works and I think that the00:34:53
current situation00:34:55
shows the necessity even more consistently and my goal00:34:57
is to completely get away from being00:34:59
dependent on Russia I now want to00:35:01
separate two things very briefly. How00:35:03
dramatic is it from your point of view that00:35:05
we are so dependent on Putin that we are00:35:07
now even looking at this seventh to00:35:11
know whether 60 or 70 or00:35:14
80 percent of the gas is no longer flowing And00:35:17
entire industrial sectors can break away here,00:35:19
so that's dramatic and00:35:21
we also made mistakes in the00:35:22
last legislature in the00:35:24
last legislature, but again the00:35:27
coalition agreement that Winamp signed,00:35:28
we precisely set out to correct these mistakes00:35:30
and very consistently00:35:31
move towards renewables00:35:34
So with regard to Russia, I want to00:35:37
express a critical thought, but I00:35:40
think it also needs to be said.00:35:41
On May 8, 1945, Nazi00:35:46
Germany was liberated by the00:35:48
Allies,00:35:49
but Germany then returned to the00:35:52
international community00:35:53
and that's why I would00:35:56
testify Regarding Russia, never00:35:58
again don't sign every00:36:01
Sunday evening I remind Alexei00:36:03
Navalny, a liberal oppositionist,00:36:06
Russia is different from or is not the00:36:09
same as Putin and therefore never again in00:36:11
relation to Russia, otherwise you can have00:36:14
the subject and liquor for a day00:36:16
simply naturalized so that00:36:18
he remembers it on Sunday evenings that he is00:36:20
this opposition member who survived the attack and00:36:22
is in custody there. He00:36:25
is also representative of another00:36:27
position, he then gives this so00:36:29
in this respect one has to tear down the general00:36:31
Putin ordered and it is not the00:36:33
Russian one people that's Elvis and the00:36:36
other question is that of the00:36:37
energy supply and Lars00:36:38
Klingbeil is absolutely right about that. Germany has00:36:45
made the big mistake in the last few decades that we00:36:46
didn't position ourselves globally but often00:36:48
bilaterally and00:36:51
we exposed our security to the Americans00:36:54
energy supply from Russia00:36:57
and, incidentally, we have a very high00:36:59
dependency on the Chinese00:37:00
domestic market and we call that wanting to sell at a high price00:37:03
or we have to00:37:05
overcome that, which is why we as a00:37:06
traffic light coalition have now decided to00:37:11
ratify the free trade agreement with Canada. Further agreements like this00:37:13
must come so that we can become global00:37:17
We are also working on00:37:19
our own options for00:37:21
renewable energies there. By the way, I would00:37:23
also be open to exploration, i.e. the00:37:26
search for oil and gas sources in the00:37:28
North Sea00:37:33
praise and that is the path we are00:37:36
taking. Here we are talking about coal00:37:38
and atoms and the alternative energies00:37:40
and the old ones that we are00:37:42
returning to. The opposition today is called the00:37:45
CDU CSU, among other things, and the00:37:49
opposition leadership is making the suggestion00:37:51
that with one percent inflation the00:37:54
Federal Finance Minister assumes ten billion00:37:55
and these ten billion00:37:58
could be given back to the citizens, that the00:38:01
cold progression will grow by 13 billion00:38:03
and that the00:38:04
federal finance minister could00:38:06
simply give the cold progression00:38:07
back to the citizens, what does the00:38:09
federal finance minister say00:38:10
so that00:38:13
the00:38:14
opposition still has00:38:17
a way to go when it comes to the numbers He has a bill in front of him,00:38:21
the calculators, unfortunately I'm not creative, I'm00:38:26
not supposed to work on the opposition now,00:38:27
just the sober numbers.00:38:29
The state doesn't win from inflation.00:38:31
I had already said that you00:38:35
have more expensive debts, in fact very much It's00:38:37
a steep slope, Ms. Illner, it's a00:38:40
real steep slope. We are now experiencing that00:38:43
the fiscal possibilities00:38:45
of this country are also limited. My first00:38:47
priority is to combat inflation00:38:50
through solid state finances, because if00:38:53
the state doesn't handle money well,00:38:56
it will still drive inflation00:38:58
And by the way, we have the problem00:39:00
that, as I just said, we00:39:02
can no longer afford to take on more debt.00:39:03
That's different than in the last00:39:05
ten years, when interest rates basically went downhill.00:39:08
The money you00:39:11
saved was used for interest00:39:13
For what do I know and now the00:39:15
interest rates could rise but to be honest, yes00:39:17
they are still rising due to the ECB, it's00:39:20
not even fun that the00:39:21
market interest rate means even00:39:25
if the key interest rate only rises slightly on the00:39:27
market the interest rate is strong. My predecessors00:39:29
have00:39:30
inflation-protected bonds00:39:33
Given the market, that means there was no00:39:35
inflation, the state made a profit00:39:37
today, these00:39:39
inflation-protected bonds from my00:39:42
predecessors will cost me billions next year,00:39:43
so in that sense debt is00:39:47
no way out, that only leads to more inflation.00:39:49
We have to go back to solid00:39:51
state finances. Now comes the second one00:39:52
point there is an area where the state00:39:56
actually earns more money that is00:39:58
the so-called cold progression that00:39:59
has to be translated in the southwest of00:40:02
Germany the workers in00:40:03
the metal and electrical industry the00:40:05
foremen get 6.5 percent that perhaps makes up for00:40:08
the loss of purchasing power but who00:40:11
benefits from it00:40:12
because they namely to slide up in the table of00:40:16
tax law but00:40:18
she doesn't want to do that, it doesn't have to be small00:40:21
I show the viewers I know when00:40:24
they have a certain un-mandate and I00:40:27
think that's unfair. I think it's00:40:28
unfair that the state00:40:30
profits more from the salary increases As00:40:33
the employees, I would like to00:40:35
change something in the coalition, we00:40:37
still have to decide on that. We'll do that00:40:39
in the fall, but my idea would be that the00:40:42
salary increase goes to the00:40:44
employees, so it should stay with the00:40:45
employees. We'll bring00:40:47
Ms. Rosbach in again and ask that an00:40:50
important an important step also to00:40:56
ensure social peace in this country against perhaps a higher00:40:58
cold in the apartment, well some00:41:00
say so, others say otherwise, so if00:41:03
the SPD or the Greens see that,00:41:05
I believe that with the compensation of the cold00:41:07
progression A bit different, so there00:41:09
are certainly people who say00:41:10
that you should only compensate for00:41:12
lower and middle incomes or you00:41:13
should compensate for the lives then00:41:15
higher incomes are burdened with a higher top00:41:17
tax rate,00:41:20
arguing that, so to speak,00:41:23
the state is ultimately one00:41:27
Secret tax increases so the city00:41:28
doesn't have to bother with parliamentary00:41:31
processes to00:41:33
increase taxes, but rather00:41:35
the tax revenue simply grows without him00:41:37
doing anything. That's of course not00:41:39
particularly fair and there has00:41:41
always been a consensus in recent years00:41:42
That you do that, that's right, it00:41:44
's not in the coalition agreement, but00:41:47
it's clear there's this report then00:41:48
we can see all of it and you're00:41:50
very quickly in the highest level if00:41:52
you get a wage increase, yes, I think you00:41:55
still have to do the 1 Pay 5 times the00:41:57
average income in order to end up with00:41:59
your last euros, so to speak, at the00:42:00
top tax rate and it's00:42:04
just that of course there is such00:42:06
a secret tax increase so I do00:42:07
n't think that's clean,00:42:08
so if the state wants to increase taxes00:42:10
then it should Doing it00:42:13
colorfully and transparently with his majority in the Bundestag,00:42:15
well, Mr. Linder does00:42:19
n't do it, but it's scary to00:42:21
do it or then say that with some00:42:24
we take it with us and with others we do00:42:25
n't. Of course, this results in00:42:27
a certain Christian Lindner doing it00:42:30
Especially the suggestion to change something about00:42:31
that is still very open before00:42:33
now I think the dogs still have to do a bit of convincing, the00:42:35
coalition is still00:42:36
doing some convincing so we can00:42:38
sometimes spontaneously ask Mr. Sounds why00:42:41
she Julia Klöckner has at least00:42:43
tried to calculate and say already So00:42:46
Mr. Lindner says the state will take 13 billion through the cold progression.00:42:48
The state will be an inflation00:42:51
winner next year. Next year would you00:42:53
like to help Mr. Lindner to00:42:55
stop this? So first of all we00:42:57
agree that you should get the skilled worker from IG00:42:59
Metall from Baden-Württemberg The00:43:01
focus must be on he had suffered from00:43:02
the inflation of the line due to00:43:04
increased energy prices and again00:43:06
we have launched two relief packages.00:43:07
A lot of things are only taking effect but00:43:09
learning for themselves. The answer to the question is00:43:11
pd no, we will not be00:43:13
conducting any coalition negotiations here now, we have00:43:14
one New situation We have00:43:16
dramatic things that have changed since00:43:18
the coalition agreement was signed,00:43:19
but we have a lot in the00:43:21
coalition agreement. I think00:43:22
we still00:43:24
consider both social projects to be right and we00:43:27
in the coalition also know that if the00:43:30
economic situation continues to improve As00:43:31
developed as it is, we have to00:43:32
help the citizens,00:43:34
but what you won't experience is00:43:36
that we are both racing against each other when it comes to00:43:37
demands. Instead, we know that00:43:39
we have to offer the citizens00:43:40
reliability. We have that00:43:42
with two big packages in the00:43:44
coalition has now done and whether we00:43:46
do more, we will then decide together in00:43:48
the coalition but we00:43:50
may see another small00:43:52
keyword fourth seventh of there is00:43:54
a big summit of employers and00:43:57
employees olaf scholz concerted00:43:59
action and three I also think is complete To00:44:01
be sure, I think it's very00:44:02
important that Olaf Scholz00:44:04
made this suggestion that we bring00:44:06
politics, the unions, the00:44:07
employers together and it's00:44:08
a dramatic situation that we have to00:44:10
go through together. We have to be00:44:13
careful that we don't have a situation in politics00:44:15
Every day someone00:44:17
makes a suggestion, but rather that we bring00:44:19
the whole bunch together at one table and00:44:21
see how we can achieve this with a00:44:22
joint effort and00:44:24
this concerted action is00:44:27
exactly the right thing to bring together at one00:44:28
table in the dramatic situation that we have, I would say we We're trying to get to the point where00:44:32
employees and employers could agree in this00:44:35
concerted action00:44:38
that there won't be too high00:44:40
wage agreements this00:44:42
year and next, and then if necessary00:44:46
with more money to00:44:49
stop this wage-price spiral00:44:51
More money00:44:52
to be able to relieve the burden on citizens is, in the eyes of00:44:54
an economy, a possible00:44:56
model. Yes, I think that's exactly00:44:58
what needs to happen. In00:45:00
such a concerted action, I think00:45:01
that's the idea00:45:05
to bring about what is really the00:45:07
situation, what can we afford, how00:45:09
can we combat inflation and00:45:12
of course we have to contribute to00:45:14
stabilizing wage developments, but00:45:16
that only happens when00:45:18
inflation expectations are stabilized00:45:19
when the employees00:45:22
have to fear that we will continue to be00:45:23
calm in the next few years00:45:25
inflation, then00:45:28
of course they have to worry about their00:45:30
real wages and then they want to00:45:31
have higher wage demands, which means00:45:33
we have to look at how we can00:45:34
avoid that, how Graewe can00:45:36
stabilize these expectations, we can00:45:38
ensure that wages don't00:45:39
rise too much On the other00:45:42
hand, of course,00:45:43
every company has to think about how much00:45:45
profit it can00:45:47
make, how much can you00:45:50
actually justify if you00:45:54
tell your own employees, but00:45:55
we don't have any money for you, so we have to think about all these things00:45:57
are discussed at this point and00:45:59
then of course what the state00:46:01
can contribute if wages do not00:46:03
rise as much as the people who have been hit00:46:04
hard, they00:46:07
said so, if you have to and can help them,00:46:10
the question is still how to do it00:46:12
It therefore finances one00:46:14
or two tax increases, perhaps00:46:15
even if they are good due to the cold00:46:18
progression and we00:46:20
have to keep an eye on the question of tax increases.00:46:21
We want to00:46:23
have economic development with00:46:25
growth with jobs with00:46:27
investments and that is The trade-off00:46:29
that the finance minister is faced with: the00:46:31
tax increase brings more money into the00:46:33
coffers but it always has an impact00:46:35
on economic dynamics, there is00:46:37
growth, new companies are00:46:40
founded, new jobs are created,00:46:41
so that's not trivial.00:46:44
I also believe that the concerted00:46:46
action is a an absolutely necessary00:46:49
measure is running a family, it's00:46:53
crucial what kind of00:46:55
household income we have, what can we00:46:57
afford, can we fill the fridge,00:46:59
is there still a possibility of00:47:00
perhaps going on holiday in the summer,00:47:02
that's crucial for people00:47:04
and if now the state and the00:47:07
Employers work together then00:47:09
we can also find a common solution00:47:10
with the instruments of the state00:47:13
and with the tariff and00:47:16
salary increases. How do we ensure00:47:18
that they retain as much of the people's purchasing power as possible? Add00:47:20
that00:47:23
of course we also have to think about00:47:24
freelance professions and00:47:26
Self-employed people are not all top-00:47:28
earning00:47:30
entrepreneurs, but there are also solo00:47:32
self-employed people who are not shown there yet00:47:33
and I believe that in00:47:36
a next step we will also have fun00:47:37
with the credit industry00:47:39
because a lot of financing will be extended next year00:47:45
Bring landlords together to00:47:48
find solutions there too. What can be done so00:47:50
that we don't00:47:52
overwhelm each other and that's what we're inviting?00:47:54
They're being asked this all the time.00:47:56
They want to manage everything by00:47:57
still00:47:59
adhering to the debt brake next year I have to, I00:48:01
can't afford to take on additional debts.00:48:02
We don't have any money. I00:48:04
manage taxpayers' money. I00:48:06
've also pointed00:48:07
out the development in interest rates.00:48:10
Let's continue to borrow so much,00:48:12
we'll continue to drive up inflation. This is00:48:15
called pursuing expansionary financial policy,00:48:17
inflation continue to the00:48:19
last few years during the pandemic00:48:21
also have an impact on the00:48:23
development of inflation, it comes primarily00:48:25
from energy, yes, but that00:48:27
also has an impact and on the other00:48:29
hand, if more and more debt is incurred00:48:31
that is more and more expensive to pay,00:48:34
then at some point you will be The00:48:36
need to increase taxes,00:48:38
but only to pay the old debts,00:48:40
we are strangling00:48:42
ourselves00:48:44
as a government in seven countries and I think we have to say that.00:48:48
Expansionary financial policy is of course00:48:51
a problem when you have high inflation,00:48:53
but actually when we are00:48:55
also in the same time00:48:57
Sliding economic crisis is of course a00:49:00
restrictive financial policy, so that there is00:49:02
no longer enough aid, that00:49:05
sooner or later you may even00:49:06
have to save on investments because you are worried about00:49:09
government investments,00:49:11
prices in tense markets such as the00:49:13
construction industry and so on,00:49:17
so they are coming Because it's simply incredibly00:49:19
difficult terrain, yes,00:49:21
on the one hand, you have to relieve the burden on people,00:49:23
you have to invest, but you00:49:25
also have to dim the state budget again00:49:28
so that this00:49:29
interest rate trend doesn't come and00:49:32
merge in this00:49:33
phase, that's what's common00:49:36
about high inflation at the same time00:49:38
and poor00:49:39
economic development and that was a00:49:41
lot of people complaining that I don't have too little to00:49:43
do, but in any case it is00:49:45
now this concerted00:49:47
action, so to speak, that the good persuasion00:49:50
towards work employers and00:49:52
employees as it is that the core00:49:56
as one kind of royal road everyone as00:49:59
Moros needs that I don't think that00:50:01
the wheel yes but I think that you misunderstand the00:50:05
so-called concerted action a bit.00:50:07
It's not a matter of00:50:09
persuasion but it is the00:50:12
intention of the federal government that we come00:50:16
up with ideas and suggestions for measures Approach the collective bargaining partners and00:50:19
make suggestions, what kind of contributions can we00:50:21
make? We want to hear what00:50:23
is being presented by others. We have00:50:25
the first concerted action on the fourth seventh, the00:50:28
first00:50:30
discussion format. But it won't00:50:32
be the last, but this year00:50:34
there will also be further opportunities We00:50:38
will also be dealing with the crisis for a longer period of time, which only00:50:40
adds one more sentence. You are of course00:50:42
absolutely right. Fighting inflation00:50:44
on the one hand and maintaining a stable00:50:47
economic perspective00:50:48
on the other hand, preventing00:50:50
economic downturns and recessions.00:50:52
That's a very difficult00:50:53
question to weigh up for each individual00:50:55
instrument. I don't want to deny that That00:50:58
this is extremely difficult and you have to00:51:01
think long and hard about what you are doing with each individual measure. One thing you00:51:03
can00:51:06
say is that there are sectors where there is a huge00:51:08
shortage. Think of the00:51:10
construction sector where there is a shortage of00:51:12
materials. It makes no00:51:14
sense that there is The state directs its financial00:51:17
firepower with subsidies to exactly that point00:51:20
or think about the00:51:22
situation with electric cars, I think it's00:51:24
great, great, it belongs to them that00:51:25
should be corrected, yes, because you ca00:51:28
n't even deliver the cars at the moment00:51:30
due to shortages, it00:51:32
doesn't make any sense00:51:35
By the way, the00:51:36
car companies earn billions, they don't need it,00:51:39
they don't need subsidies, you do00:51:40
n't have to ask for subsidies, Christian Lindner,00:51:43
the tax money out of your jacket. Ten00:51:45
people is not my life You00:51:52
also think that taxes are unnecessary.00:51:54
These purchase bonuses for electric cars need to be00:51:56
maintained. Hand on heart,00:51:59
we see it works and it should be00:52:01
phased out. There are already officials who are00:52:04
asking questions. I think we00:52:07
need clarity overall that we are heading00:52:08
towards electromobility The00:52:11
corporations need clarity for00:52:13
investment decisions but the00:52:15
bonuses have been working for a while now, they have00:52:17
boosted demand00:52:18
and now that's good again now that00:52:20
's good again we've reached the00:52:22
crucial question in the last00:52:24
six minutes free schnitzers atomic coal00:52:28
are Now the alternatives to the00:52:30
becoming scarcer because gas how much sense does00:52:33
it make in your eyes00:52:36
to think about nuclear power? We all know how much it00:52:37
hurts to get the coal-fired power plants00:52:39
back on the grid.00:52:42
Yes or no,00:52:44
three nuclear power plants in Germany00:52:45
back to us. It's so great about it00:52:48
I can think about anything, but I'm00:52:50
completely pragmatic and non-ideological.00:52:52
If we had the opportunity to00:52:54
let it run without any difficulties,00:52:56
that would certainly help us.00:52:58
The experts give different00:53:01
assessments of how expensive it is,00:53:04
how easy it is to actually get the fuel00:53:09
Sanctions are proven whether you00:53:11
get them in time, what about00:53:13
security, especially when there is a proposal00:53:15
that you00:53:16
should extend it for five years, you then have to00:53:18
invest in00:53:19
security again if in the end that means00:53:22
that the state We00:53:23
have to be responsible for this with co-financing then00:53:26
I'm a bit skeptical at this point00:53:28
then I ask myself whether this00:53:30
money wouldn't be better invested in another way.00:53:32
We have the opportunity to do that with the00:53:34
coal-fired power plants. We've00:53:35
even heard that she00:53:37
said earlier that this is what the price of electricity is00:53:39
currently doing Even cheaper, it's00:53:41
not more harmful to the environment in that you're00:53:44
linked to the certificate trade,00:53:46
which means you have to00:53:48
buy the ticket. The price goes up a bit.00:53:50
Others then buy it less, so I do00:53:53
n't currently see that nuclear power00:53:57
really has to solve the problem because there are other00:53:59
options But the experts00:54:01
should say how easy it is says before00:54:03
Schnitzer we are in Bonn again00:54:05
Klaus Müller the arguments are in the room00:54:08
it only affects six percent of00:54:11
the energy anyway and nuclear energy is only00:54:15
capable of base load but cannot cover these peaks00:54:17
what the gas power plants00:54:19
can do Is your position what goes into your00:54:23
arguments per atom in order to do everything00:54:26
we have to do is a ban on thinking00:54:28
that is right or a ban on thinking that00:54:31
is wrong?00:54:33
Mr. Lindner said a very00:54:35
important sentence earlier: we don't have a00:54:37
power gap, we have a problem00:54:39
with gas At this point, that's the00:54:41
primary thing you need to pay attention to.00:54:43
Nuclear power plants don't produce heat.00:54:46
They don't heat an apartment, they00:54:49
produce electricity and are actually00:54:50
base load capable and that's why I think00:54:53
we can focus on what the00:54:55
problem is and not have any00:54:56
secondary theaters of war. I'm advocating00:54:58
for that We solve the problem and I00:55:01
think we have to do everything we can to achieve that. I00:55:03
think the nuclear debate doesn't help us00:55:05
with the concerns that people00:55:08
and the industry have. They are now00:55:09
so reserved about it. Müller can00:55:11
argue again, so00:55:12
the Constitutional Court also has major rulings on this00:55:15
given the contracts have been terminated, the00:55:16
people have been terminated, so you could00:55:19
say a little more vehemently that this won't00:55:20
save us,00:55:23
that's absolutely right, but you00:55:26
invited me as president of the00:55:28
Federal Network Agency, there is a certain00:55:30
political restraint in fact all the00:55:32
arguments are from the Minister of Economic Affairs It has been pointed00:55:34
out that it begins,00:55:37
so to speak, with the question of00:55:38
base load capability, that it is not the00:55:40
problem, what we need is peak load, that00:55:42
is the question of where the fuel elements00:55:44
come from. This is often from Russia00:55:47
and at least in the past00:55:48
I refer to the statements of00:55:50
leading energy representatives, for example from RWE,00:55:54
I think they are not suspicious, they do00:55:56
n't have much interest at all, but this may be00:55:58
a political discussion from00:56:00
the Federal Network Agency's point of view. We have to00:56:02
solve the problem. We don't have a00:56:04
power gap. You shouldn't bring it up.00:56:06
That's not the problem that00:56:08
Germany has today. We have to00:56:10
procure gas Since very00:56:12
cautious head of the Federal Network Agency,00:56:15
these are not arguments enough,00:56:17
the current head of the00:56:20
Federal Network Agency has00:56:23
absolutely and then hid the00:56:25
activity with the greatest elegance that he is of course00:56:27
a former Green Minister, which is why I am00:56:30
now00:56:35
asking him about nuclear energy, of all things, which was also00:56:37
now one Special point from you00:56:40
Back to the point In fact, we00:56:42
currently have no electricity gap but we00:56:44
also have climate goals and00:56:47
so the some if the head of RWE00:56:51
just called Mr. Müller but he00:56:53
is right then we will have this situation for three to five00:56:55
years00:56:58
Given the affordability of00:57:00
energy and our climate goals, I think00:57:03
it makes sense to talk about nuclear energy. The question00:57:05
then needs to be asked: where can00:57:07
we get fuel elements from, for example, from00:57:10
Australia? Is that realistic? What is the00:57:12
technical condition of the plants? Why00:57:16
are the private operators of the00:57:17
nuclear power plants? In Germany,00:57:18
at the moment, they are being extended00:57:20
because00:57:23
the permits are legally00:57:26
expiring there and of course every00:57:28
operator fears that it will be extended00:57:30
and in 2023 when I have characters is00:57:33
a bit but is a serious00:57:35
concern if a faucet drips somewhere you00:57:38
immediately have the so-called incident00:57:40
debate Are they cautious?00:57:42
If you wanted that, I use the00:57:44
subjunctive consciously. If you00:57:47
wanted that, then it would be a political00:57:50
decision in an emergency situation for00:57:53
a limited period of time and this00:57:56
debate is currently being held and00:57:58
I have seen that your colleagues00:58:01
in the ard will have one tomorrow Survey00:58:03
is presented that the majority of00:58:05
Germans say yes, if it protects the climate00:58:07
and secures the energy supply,00:58:10
then we are open to it for a while,00:58:12
you have to take it seriously, so00:58:14
now the citizens00:58:15
may not be able to decide something like that00:58:17
because there is real expert knowledge00:58:19
is needed and that's why it's only now that it's00:58:21
perhaps quite good00:58:22
to really listen to see whether the experts say that00:58:24
this is a clear matter and whether even00:58:26
the operators and former operators00:58:28
say that it's not so I tell the00:58:30
operators and former operators00:58:31
yes They have already00:58:35
oriented themselves in a different direction with their investors. They have00:58:38
long since looked differently. The applications have been00:58:39
canceled and the people have left, Ms. Illner.00:58:42
They are arguing precisely from the00:58:44
business perspective of the00:58:46
RWE. This is about our stateDescription:
Russland drosselt die Gaslieferungen. Die Bundesregierung hat die Alarmstufe im Notfallplan Gas ausgerufen. Noch ist genug Gas da, aber es wird knapp. Versorger können die gestiegenen Preise noch nicht voll auf die Kunden umlegen, aber dass es für sie teuer wird, daran gibt es keine Zweifel. Daher fordert der SPD-Vorsitzende Lars Klingbeil eine „nationale Kraftanstrengung“. „Wir sind alle besorgt“, sagte Klingbeil mit Blick auf die Stimmung in der Bundesregierung. „Wir wissen, in welch ernster Lage wir sind.“ Noch könne aber gehandelt werden. „Deswegen ist es glaube ich eine nationale Kraftanstrengung, dass Politik, dass Unternehmen, dass alle sich fragen, wo können wir sparen, was können wir gemeinsam tun.“ Bundesfinanzminister Christian Lindner (FDP) warnt vor einem dauerhaften Schaden für die deutsche Wirtschaft, falls der Industrie das Gas abgedreht werden müsste. Wenn bestimmte industrielle Anlagen wegen Gasmangels ganz heruntergefahren müssten, „sind sie kaputt“, sagte der FDP-Chef. „Und dann werden sie in Deutschland nicht neu aufgebaut.“ Stattdessen werde in Asien investiert. „Das ist die Strukturkrise, die drohen kann durch die Gasknappheit, die wir unbedingt im Interesse unseres Wohlstandes im Jahr 2030 abwenden müssen.“ Als erste Maßnahme verlangte Lindner daher ein Ende der Stromproduktion mit Gaskraftwerken und eine Diskussion ohne Tabus. „Es macht Sinn, über Kernenergie zu sprechen.“ Die „Wirtschaftsweise“ Monika Schnitzer sieht Deutschland bei einer sich weiter verschärfenden Gaskrise in eine Rezession stürzen. Die Wachstumsprognose für dieses Jahr sei bereits von über vier Prozent auf unter zwei Prozent gesunken, „einfach deswegen, weil die Energiepreise so stark gestiegen sind“, sagte die Ökonomin. „Wenn die jetzt weiter steigen sollten, dazu noch wirklich Versorgungsknappheiten kommen, dann müssen wir tatsächlich damit rechnen, dass wir in eine Rezession rutschen.“ Klaus Müller, Präsident der Bundesnetzagentur, bleibt vorsichtig optimistisch und erklärt: „Im Augenblick geht unsere Energie drauf, den Worst Case zu vermeiden. Den können wir noch vermeiden mit der Unterstützung der Politik; jeder Betriebsrat, jeder private Haushalt kann etwas dazu beitragen, dass es nicht so weit kommt.“ Die Gäste der Sendung: Christian Lindner, FDP, Bundesfinanzminister, Parteivorsitzender Lars Klingbeil, SPD, Parteivorsitzender Monika Schnitzer, Ökonomin, Wirtschaftsweise Klaus Müller, Präsident der Bundesnetzagentur Henrike Roßbach, Journalistin, Hauptstadtkorrespondentin „Süddeutsche Zeitung“ ----- Hier auf ZDFheute Nachrichten erfahrt ihr, was auf der Welt passiert und was uns alle etwas angeht: Wir sorgen für Durchblick in der Nachrichtenwelt, erklären die Hintergründe und gehen auf gesellschaftliche Debatten ein. Diskutiert in Livestreams mit uns und bildet euch eure eigene Meinung mit den Fakten, die wir euch präsentieren. Abonniert unseren Kanal, um nichts mehr zu verpassen. Immer auf dem aktuellen Stand seid ihr auf https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten
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