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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:01
then I00:00:27
turn on Good afternoon gentlemen Is this and this00:00:30
Maria singers Maria I’m terribly glad00:00:33
to see you Hello I’m glad to see you too and I’m glad00:00:36
to be on your channel I’m still not a00:00:39
frequent guest here And that’s why it’s good00:00:42
And by the way about the channel Subscribe Don’t00:00:45
forget to like forget00:00:47
to ask questions and don’t forget to share00:00:50
comments and Well, if you have00:00:54
n’t watched the film Traitors yet,00:00:56
of course, come watch it too00:00:59
Subscribe00:01:00
and let’s start from the very beginning, let’s00:01:03
define what I will ask you about00:01:06
because we will naturally talk00:01:08
about the film Traitors, or rather about its first00:01:11
series because I remind you that when00:01:13
the second one comes out, this is secret information00:01:16
Well, soon it will be released in the00:01:18
coming week But the specific time and00:01:21
date We have not specifically announced00:01:23
yet Do I understand the thesis of the first00:01:26
series correctly? The nineties gave birth to Putin We were00:01:28
promised democracy, they built corruption, they00:01:31
stole elections, they privatized the Armed Forces For00:01:32
kopecks and this happened irreparably back00:01:35
in the00:01:36
nineties this is the thesis not only of the first00:01:38
episode, this is the thesis of this entire cycle of00:01:42
this entire season, if you can call it that,00:01:44
but in general it’s really true Well,00:01:47
maybe a little more A little more detailed,00:01:50
this can be said I also claim that00:01:52
Putin is and there is a deno, he will remain de deno00:01:58
and we analyze the mistakes00:02:00
that were made during00:02:03
this period of time that led to the00:02:06
fact that Putin not only appeared, but also00:02:08
entrenched himself for the next 25 years, but00:02:14
very much in the film the film begins with the00:02:16
fact that these are the thoughts of Alexei Navalny00:02:19
that this is something that he didn’t have time to sort of, that00:02:22
is, this was one of his last00:02:24
important posts, and while you’re saying that00:02:27
this was discussed a lot with them,00:02:31
hear Well, you also already said that he00:02:34
said when his opinion changed,00:02:38
but it’s hard for me to say when what00:02:42
specific moment did Alexei00:02:44
Navalny’s opinion about the nineties00:02:46
change and because this absolutely00:02:47
definitely happened00:02:49
long before we met 13 years00:02:53
ago? Well, that is, as long as I know Alexey,00:02:56
as long as we discuss this topic with him, we haven’t00:02:58
really discussed very much,00:03:01
his views have already00:03:03
been in existing form, and these00:03:07
were views that went through00:03:10
disappointment Well, through the initial, let’s00:03:12
say, fascination with Yeltsin and00:03:14
the reforms proposed by them and the00:03:15
subsequent subsequent disappointment,00:03:17
so I can’t say that I didn’t00:03:19
find Alexei who still took00:03:23
some other position, but in general it’s00:03:25
just that over all these years, it’s probably possible00:03:29
to formulate his views on the nineties00:03:31
better, but in general it’s more likely00:03:34
just about the details. Yes, I00:03:35
specifically posted Alexey’s interview with Mikhail,00:03:38
for shame this interview was filmed in00:03:40
2015, yes Quite a long time ago and it’s already very00:03:44
clearly very clearly readable00:03:46
approximately the same thing that I then00:03:50
reveal in this in this first episode00:03:52
in all subsequent episodes of our series of00:03:57
traitors. I’m glad that Alexey managed to00:04:00
write a large program post on a00:04:02
similar topic and which was published in August.00:04:04
This was the first post after his last00:04:06
sentence.00:04:07
And when did he was sentenced to an additional 1900:04:10
years, I remember how it surprised many people, how many00:04:13
discussions it caused, and in fact,00:04:15
it was then that the idea of this series00:04:19
was born, and in general it seems to me that if you00:04:24
carefully read old old00:04:26
publications, old statements by Naval00:04:28
Navalny on this topic, then00:04:30
Well, I would like to believe and I have00:04:32
reason to believe00:04:35
that the series reflects precisely his00:04:39
views. And somehow this was discussed00:04:43
after he was in prison because, after00:04:45
all, there were some means of00:04:46
communication. Well, when he wrote this00:04:48
post. It was discussed naturally. His00:04:51
reaction. If you probably remember it also00:04:52
makes sense to restore the events Yes, he00:04:54
wrote this post in August, which was a post00:04:56
called Fear and Loathing and00:05:00
this post caused a very heated discussion.00:05:02
Well, maybe not as heated as now00:05:03
because probably people were embarrassed to00:05:05
criticize a person who was sitting, a man00:05:08
sitting, spending most of00:05:10
his time terribly in the schizo, but00:05:12
nevertheless, the trend was already clear then, and00:05:15
after the publication of this post we00:05:17
naturally discussed and it was discussed by00:05:20
many, as far as I know, the reaction to this00:05:23
post and what kind of00:05:26
excitement happened and if you remember, and00:05:29
apparently so as not to criticize Navalny00:05:31
directly, people to people it was inconvenient to do this00:05:34
and such a canard was deliberately launched00:05:37
and which in general many people They00:05:41
probably don’t like to remember it now, but00:05:43
nevertheless they wrote that this was actually not00:05:45
Navalny, this post was published that it was not00:05:47
Navalny who wrote this And this text And00:05:50
this is all very doesn’t look like Navalny and00:05:52
this is his team, and Leonid Volkov or I00:05:54
or someone else write posts for Navalny00:05:57
and then pass off their thoughts as00:06:00
Navalny’s thoughts, this discussion then00:06:02
developed rapidly and in a very bad00:06:05
and scary00:06:07
direction, some kind of verification began00:06:09
that like Navalny he writes these these00:06:12
letters How he conveys these posts00:06:16
people questioned the authenticity of00:06:19
his publication people questioned00:06:21
some crazy things from the series of what,00:06:22
that is, that Alexey even knows00:06:25
that such posts are published in his name00:06:27
and that his family knows in general it00:06:29
has crossed some it has crossed all the00:06:31
limits of reason and Alexey00:06:34
had to write a second00:06:36
post straight from prison he had to write a second post with00:06:39
a message and with a message about how you’ve00:06:42
gone nuts You’re all ska there Why am I wasting00:06:44
my time Why am I wasting my00:06:46
temporary correspondence on saying00:06:48
obvious things that no one but me00:06:51
writes Navalny can write on my00:06:53
behalf these are my words these are my thoughts and00:06:56
please stop this unbearable00:06:58
false00:06:59
discussion this is how events developed in00:07:02
August and September of last00:07:05
year and probably around October in00:07:07
October in November I sat down to write this00:07:12
series with the sole purpose of closing00:07:16
some gaps in the understanding of that00:07:18
time, to reveal some of Alexey’s theses00:07:21
from his00:07:22
post Fear and Loathing and well, one of the00:07:26
most unpleasant and painful for00:07:28
Naturally, my main concern now is that I00:07:30
understand how interesting it was for Alexey to00:07:33
read what I got, but00:07:35
unfortunately we will never have such an opportunity again; our00:07:41
chat here is simply absolutely torn apart. Moreover, I see strictly00:07:44
opposite comments; we00:07:46
have no neutral people or write Maria00:07:49
Thank you for the film, the film is excellent Maria,00:07:51
well done, and so on, or they write this film00:07:55
Propaganda Clean water stoves preparing00:07:57
execution lists00:07:59
Bolshevism - This is the same fascism and we will00:08:03
still discuss the content first00:08:04
From what point from your point00:08:07
of view Everything went wrong00:08:10
and this a very complex question and it seems to me00:08:13
that there can be no answer to it. This is a00:08:15
question of interpretation and the question is, if we00:08:18
are talking about the genre of the YouTube00:08:21
series, it’s just a question of00:08:22
artistic choice, you can start00:08:24
telling the story from any point, you can00:08:27
traditionally tell it naturally in the00:08:29
ninety-first year. covering the events00:08:32
related to the State Emergency Committee and in the ninety-00:08:34
third year further And there is not some kind of00:08:37
canonical canonical but a way to00:08:40
tell it, it is based on chronology, most00:08:42
likely I have several Here is an00:08:44
inversion structure And I specifically00:08:48
decided to start with an episode about an autumn00:08:51
street not because let's say I consider00:08:53
it the most important or the very first, I don’t00:08:55
say the ninety-second or ninety-00:08:56
third year when this house was built00:08:58
exactly that point00:09:00
Yes and Well, I’m just using this as an00:09:02
artistic device because our00:09:04
viewers Well, about which I am obliged to think and00:09:08
for which I do this This is a00:09:11
very recognizable move and genre Yes, for00:09:13
many years on00:09:14
Navalny’s channel there have been videos that are similar in00:09:17
sound to this, where we00:09:19
look at apartments in the same way, where we00:09:21
also explain very, very basic things00:09:24
about what corruption is00:09:26
how it works What is corruption00:09:28
What is not corruption why is it00:09:29
bad That’s why I decided to start it00:09:32
from the end of ninety-two, beginning of00:09:34
ninety-three, but I’ll tell you00:09:36
honestly Yulia, in general, writing is00:09:39
like this Well, at least this00:09:41
season about the nineties is and it’s a big00:09:44
torture from the point of view of the fact that you want to00:09:47
mention so many things and it seems that00:09:50
if you don’t mention it, it’s as if you’re not00:09:52
selling this event of too00:09:54
serious significance.00:10:04
you lose the viewer who, as a result, doesn’t00:10:06
watch to the end, so this genre is00:10:10
about a search about finding a balance Yes, the search for a00:10:14
balance between interesting storytelling00:10:16
between factual fidelity Well,00:10:18
meanwhile, the correct accents00:10:22
politically dumb mouth immediately00:10:25
compares appears in the00:10:28
memory, agree Maria that the house is on00:10:30
autumn streets Well, just if00:10:33
someone told us that Putin built a00:10:37
house, a house, even apartments. Yes, let him00:10:42
give out 160 m 360 to his friends. Well, somehow00:10:47
this whole house, it feels like it fits into one00:10:49
Aqua disco and costs about the00:10:51
same00:10:52
Well, I understand your point thought now I00:10:56
will try to answer this in a more or less structured way,00:10:58
I would like to make a note00:11:00
that of course it is impossible and wrong to make00:11:04
allowances00:11:05
for the amount of stolen or illegally00:11:10
acquired goods and just the overall amount of00:11:13
corruption. Because there will always be00:11:16
Putin’s palace. If you remember00:11:18
our investigation about Putin’s palace is called he00:11:20
has such a tally, the second name is the story of the00:11:23
largest bribe in the world. I don’t think00:11:26
that we will see anything in our lives, but00:11:29
from the point of view of precisely the presence of an asset00:11:32
that is visible and not money, just in00:11:34
accounts Yes And some here are the stories that00:11:36
there will be more than Putin’s palace and00:11:40
larger scale than Putin’s palace, but this does not00:11:42
negate the00:11:44
stories of a smaller scale and00:11:48
corruption in my understanding is very00:11:49
widespread now, a00:11:51
complaint against me is very widespread00:11:53
in this very direction that Well, this is00:11:54
not corruption But It seems to me that corruption,00:11:57
in principle, uh,00:12:00
basically has a tendency to00:12:03
grow and the huge gigantic00:12:06
corruption that we see today, these00:12:08
palaces of Putin and others, all the palaces and00:12:10
planes and yachts for 750 million euros and all00:12:15
this, it all started somewhere and00:12:18
small it’s like a crime along a00:12:20
chain that legitimizes00:12:29
corruption on a larger scale because it’s00:12:31
as if if you can do it a little bit,00:12:32
then you can probably do it a little bit more if00:12:35
I managed to avoid responsibility for a00:12:38
small offense, I can probably00:12:41
avoid responsibility in the same way for a00:12:43
larger one, and this is like a reduced com and00:12:45
I absolutely can’t understand Why00:12:48
many critics of this series say00:12:52
that well, no, it doesn’t count if it’s00:12:54
360 m. It doesn’t count if and if it’s a00:12:59
house that I don’t like visually. And00:13:01
believe me, I don’t like the house for the fall00:13:03
visually either. I don’t I think that00:13:04
someone actually likes the building, it’s00:13:06
quite lousy, let’s00:13:08
be honest. But this does not change00:13:11
the principle that this is wrong, that this00:13:13
is the definition of corruption when you00:13:16
use the power that you have,00:13:20
your official position, in order00:13:22
to benefit from someone Of a personal00:13:25
nature, this is corruption;00:13:29
I don’t question the fact that Yeltsin is entitled to an apartment in Moscow.00:13:32
Yes, that’s how00:13:34
the Law is structured here, and it’s probably00:13:37
normal that if a person comes from00:13:39
another region, especially if he is the head00:13:42
of state or some kind of official,00:13:44
probably he needs to be allocated some kind of00:13:45
living space which, if my00:13:47
memory serves me right, he can, according to Russian00:13:50
law, privatize once in his life.00:13:53
Okay, no problem, let it be 36000:13:55
m, let it be 500 m and there will be an00:13:59
office room, no problem, but they00:14:02
gave us apartments in the house not only00:14:05
Yeltsin himself, but also Yeltsin’s eldest daughter.00:14:07
And why and why why would they00:14:11
hit the apartment of00:14:14
Yeltsin’s favorite comedian or tennis coach,00:14:18
it’s like this is the same question, the00:14:21
question is that I pay00:14:25
attention and show it to Tom who00:14:29
ascended to the banner00:14:36
thanks to this and people loved him for00:14:39
this, in fact, in his everyday00:14:42
life he behaved in a different way, and if you are00:14:45
fighting00:14:47
privileges, you can’t help but00:14:52
ring your guard, you say,00:14:55
Let’s move the congested one00:14:57
here, too. Let’s move the torpischeva here, too.00:15:01
not to be read as as as00:15:04
as as a privilege and of course It was00:15:07
overstepping the red line a little bit Yes,00:15:10
first you step on it there half a foot at00:15:12
a time and then you take a00:15:15
giant leap over it, I’m trying to00:15:18
show this snowball in the first episode how from a00:15:20
small It would seem like an insignificant00:15:23
thing, we get to something so00:15:25
fundamental for Russian history00:15:27
as the privatization of oil, for example,00:15:29
I have it all put together in00:15:31
one series. Well, look at this, I have00:15:35
no doubt that the story there with the house on the00:15:37
autumn street in any democratic00:15:39
country would have been known conditions, a00:15:41
reason for a scandal, by the way, in the nineties,00:15:43
such stories, the same book by Chubais,00:15:47
became a reason for a scandal But here is00:15:49
your thesis It seems to me a little bit from the00:15:51
series Today he dances jazz And tomorrow he00:15:53
will sell his homeland00:15:59
No, I don’t understand the00:16:04
use of this expression Well, I It00:16:07
seems to me just that00:16:09
I covered this topic in great detail today00:16:11
you steal a little tomorrow you steal00:16:15
a lot today you use00:16:18
privileges once a week a little bit00:16:21
Because it’s really necessary and so00:16:24
on And in a year or two this, well,00:16:27
it turns into something into something00:16:29
other I’m more likely talking about the Motherland00:16:32
about Dust and jazz here, after all, it’s like00:16:34
actions of such a slightly different00:16:35
nature And I’m only talking about the scale It’s00:16:38
not the type of crime that’s changing Yes, but00:16:42
its scale still remains00:16:43
just corruption And good then I have00:16:47
such a question here Imagine00:16:48
that you were doing an investigation now00:16:50
let’s not talk about political overtones00:16:52
about the famous laptop of Hunter Biden with00:16:55
Burimo with some Chinese00:16:58
companies with Guy who, well, in general, to be00:17:02
honest, this is much much fatter than00:17:06
the house on the autumn street we are not we know00:17:08
the details, but00:17:11
it looks well. It doesn’t follow from this that within the00:17:15
framework of all these stories, America00:17:16
will turn into a00:17:18
dictatorship Yul, it’s very difficult for me00:17:20
to talk about the corruption of Hunter00:17:22
Biden, his laptop storm and everything else,00:17:25
I read some news on this topic00:17:26
when I this all came out And so00:17:28
on, but is not my area of00:17:29
interest Because it has00:17:31
nothing to do with Russia, it does not00:17:34
affect my country in any way and00:17:37
I would like to have more00:17:39
time to investigate such things too,00:17:40
read the source documents,00:17:42
figure it out myself draw any conclusions,00:17:44
but here I00:17:46
am certainly not an expert on this particular case.00:17:50
Did the case with00:17:53
this leak and the business of the00:17:57
president’s son lead to the establishment of a corrupt00:18:00
regime in the United States? The answer is no, he00:18:03
can be as00:18:05
corrupt as he wants, he can be as much00:18:06
as he wants break the laws as much as you like. I00:18:08
understand that there are a huge number of00:18:09
complaints about his way of life and00:18:12
how he spends his free time,00:18:13
who he communicates with, and so on, but in any00:18:15
case, firstly, in the United States of00:18:19
America, the problem of corruption certainly00:18:22
also exists, but not is so acute00:18:26
and so all-consuming Nehru does not destroy00:18:29
so many lives usually as00:18:31
happens in Russia Well, on the other hand, on the other00:18:34
hand, this is still a problem on the00:18:36
other side And I would still like to00:18:37
discuss Rather Rather Russia and Putin00:18:41
and even the nineties than what’s00:18:44
happening in the USA no, naturally00:18:47
let’s go back to the ninety, she gave as an00:18:49
example the fact that well, you can’t measure everything by00:18:52
corruption alone, but let’s go back just00:18:55
then to Denom Who is the Circle of people00:18:57
you consider00:18:59
and even just such a dirty trick,00:19:02
for example, Is it included in it Khodorkovsky00:19:03
to what level is the00:19:06
oligarch responsible? I certainly don’t want to roll out00:19:10
a list because this list is00:19:15
difficult to edit and this is something I’m00:19:19
often accused of being radical, but you see,00:19:21
I’m not ready to do this. There is a certain00:19:25
Sorry, please, there is a certain core and00:19:28
people who are absolutely00:19:31
responsible and moreover, they are to blame for the00:19:34
fact that in Russia Putin ended up at the helm,00:19:38
it00:19:41
turned out to be in an undemocratic way, and I repeat, it was entrenched,00:19:44
first of all, family, family in the broad00:19:45
sense of the word, and those people in00:19:47
Yeltsin’s inner circle who, taking advantage of the fact00:19:50
that he is in little00:19:52
change in his second term, actually00:19:56
ruled the country and did their own thing, this is00:19:59
one group of people here, we can00:20:00
include here Yeltsin’s daughter Tatyana and00:20:05
Yumashev00:20:07
and the people there I don’t know00:20:10
Berezovsky who probably00:20:12
can also be included there, of course, this00:20:16
core It00:20:19
changed over time Yes Abramovich Added00:20:23
and began to be considered a member family closer to00:20:26
a year before this, no one knew him.00:20:28
If you remember the first story about00:20:30
Abramovich on television, I think he00:20:32
was on NTV, where the journalist very happily00:20:36
says that they managed to find a00:20:38
photograph of Roman Abramovich because00:20:40
no one even knew what he looked like and they00:20:42
walked on the Arbat and from this photo00:20:45
they drew some kind of collage,00:20:48
some kind of caricature to use00:20:50
it in their news00:20:52
Yes. Then other people joined this group, the family in00:20:56
quotes, at00:20:57
some point, while someone00:20:59
refers to this Alexandra Mamut someone refers to00:21:02
someone else there is a wide group of people00:21:03
who I think also bear a huge00:21:05
responsibility for what happened, these are00:21:07
the oligarchs and they took advantage of the fact that the00:21:12
democratic legal institutions in00:21:16
Russia at that time were very young and00:21:18
very fragile and they broke there is00:21:21
Yeltsin personally who bears a00:21:23
huge responsibility for this, there are the so-00:21:26
called reformers and those people who00:21:28
worked with Chubais. I don’t know who is better00:21:31
under Alfred Koch, of course he bears a00:21:32
huge responsibility as the00:21:34
organizer of loans-for-shares auctions, but I do00:21:36
n’t want to make a hit00:21:38
list. I don’t want what - how00:21:40
to finalize00:21:42
How how to finalize there are 100 names00:21:45
which are 100 names of people who are00:21:48
guilty and who00:21:50
and the lid is wrong I mention00:21:54
key names if00:21:59
our series were endless probably the00:22:01
conversation would go00:22:02
far and we would count them there in whole00:22:06
bunches But this is still a huge00:22:08
simplification Well, I really have00:22:10
three times an hour each episode and I can’t00:22:14
afford to tell this story00:22:16
anymore And of course in this genre there00:22:18
will always be some kind of simplifications and I’m00:22:22
surprised by this Here are the very violent00:22:25
reactions of many participants in those events,00:22:27
as if I had mentioned them there, called them00:22:31
some words and accused them of something. I00:22:33
literally have no in the whole season.00:22:34
Please forgive me for the spoiler. Well, well,00:22:36
six characters Well, seven Well, maybe00:22:38
eight most people who there00:22:41
who commented on something and said00:22:43
that I was wrong and that I didn’t00:22:45
take them into account with the same brush as everyone else, I00:22:48
didn’t have any thoughts to00:22:52
mention them in this scenario Well, the more00:22:54
interesting it is, the more interesting it is how people00:22:55
project this situation onto themselves00:22:57
probably the root of all this lies in the fact00:23:00
that that generation of people, namely the Elite, I in00:23:04
no way mean ordinary00:23:06
people, understands00:23:09
that They bear some responsibility and00:23:12
they do not like the assessment that I give in00:23:16
such broad strokes and hence all00:23:19
these waves of indignation and they go No, well, you00:23:24
yourself invited00:23:25
to the controversy. It seems to me that this is00:23:28
actually not very correct when00:23:31
they make a film that is specifically supposed to00:23:33
cause controversy, the controversy00:23:34
begins And then some, especially00:23:37
part of the audience, those who are sincere00:23:39
fans, begin to scream And how dare00:23:41
they in general, guys dare to talk like that Yes00:23:43
yes yes I absolutely agree with you by the way00:23:45
I too00:23:47
I confirm here once again that I in00:23:50
every possible way I Invite to discussion in00:23:52
every possible way I welcome comments on00:23:54
some comments Well This is a genre I00:23:56
will laugh and say that they are Well or00:24:00
absurd funny, like00:24:02
the comment of Lev Shlosberg Yes, who00:24:05
wrote a very detailed post on the topic of00:24:07
how he imagines me being00:24:10
shot in cold blood, execution00:24:13
lists and Well, in fact, Yes,00:24:15
he drew it, invented that I was00:24:18
capable of this, and then he himself was afraid of it, and00:24:20
some and some criticism I00:24:24
consider it quite seriously without there are already a00:24:28
lot of people who are sincerely00:24:31
nice Mikhail Fishman Yes, who00:24:33
wrote wonderful books about de Too,00:24:35
he didn’t like it and00:24:37
he and he wrote in his texts on his00:24:40
posts on Facebook that I’m in vain calling00:24:42
Elna corrupt officials, this is not00:24:45
corruption is wonderful wonderful I am00:24:47
ready to hold round tables on the topic of00:24:49
whether even this00:24:51
microscopic plot about autumn00:24:54
is a sign of corruption or00:24:56
not, but I ask the audience to pay00:24:57
attention to the fact that many people have latched on00:24:59
to this very moment, I absolutely do not00:25:00
pay attention to the fact that in 3-4 minutes in00:25:03
timing after the story about autumn,00:25:05
the story about00:25:07
RT begins here and here we won’t be00:25:10
here either We will also make some00:25:11
exceptions Here’s something about RT I haven’t00:25:13
heard anyone say but no Well,00:25:15
that’s normal Well here if it was necessary,00:25:17
then Okay And there, too, the story was00:25:19
dirty and muddy. I’m not only talking about the00:25:20
RT directly for kvata, I’m talking about how00:25:22
it was done, I’m talking about this consortium of00:25:24
businessmen. I’m talking about this one, about this00:25:27
scheme where everyone shook hands. and00:25:29
they pretended that supposedly a group of people was00:25:32
running the first channel, not even people, but a00:25:35
group of institutions; there were banks. Yes, the00:25:37
largest at that time at that00:25:38
time that were there was Gazprom. There00:25:41
was some other part of the00:25:43
organization. But in fact, it was just00:25:45
Berezovsky, the rest00:25:46
were just pretending, we are now for some reason in00:25:49
2024, when we are doing other investigations00:25:51
about corruption, we are constantly talking Well,00:25:53
even Putin’s palace This is the nominal00:25:55
owner This is wrong this is the nominal00:25:56
owner The beneficiary is actually different Why are00:25:58
we here, some other00:26:00
rules we come up with this, too, the nominal00:26:02
owner and all these all these banks and00:26:05
Alfabank Menatep who pretended to be the00:26:07
owners of Channel One because00:26:08
Berezovsky asked, they entered into this00:26:11
conspiracy and, unfortunately to my00:26:14
great, they had a hand in the seizure of the main00:26:16
TV channel of the country, which in turn00:26:19
very quickly almost first of all,00:26:22
after Putin acquired the necessary00:26:25
degree of power which the00:26:28
necessary degree of power at the beginning of the thousandth,00:26:30
very soon it all turned into a channel00:26:33
that is controlled by oligarchs but00:26:36
just Putin’s oligarchs and a channel00:26:38
that does a lot of harm I won’t00:26:41
remember stories about Boeing Yes,00:26:42
the size of a football field about a00:26:46
crucified boy Yes, that’s all that’s all00:26:48
Channel One, which now simply00:26:49
belongs not to Berezovsky, not to Aramovich,00:26:51
but to00:26:53
KCH. It’s just about the execution lists,00:26:55
here some Rasel writes, the execution00:26:59
list is really needed, this is a really00:27:00
fundamental question, let’s say FBK00:27:02
comes to power, what will happen to these00:27:05
people, how will they respond, yes, nothing00:27:09
will happen to these people, please forgive me, the00:27:10
radical00:27:12
wing of my people who00:27:16
praise this film Well, nothing Well,00:27:18
depending on what they did Well, in00:27:19
general, I can’t imagine that their00:27:22
lives are in danger I don’t00:27:25
understand at all how people who write00:27:27
about the execution lists and about me00:27:30
Bolsheviks have enough. They have enough conscience for this. That’s probably why I laugh at00:27:32
this. It00:27:34
seems to me that our00:27:37
organization Alexey Navalny is already I, to00:27:40
some extent, over those years It00:27:42
seems to me that in our public work, with all00:27:43
our appearance and all our actions, we00:27:45
showed that we are not capable of this, and00:27:51
that at the end, every00:27:54
video of Alexey for many years00:27:56
always ended with phrases about Du koto00:27:58
here they talk about not lying and not stealing00:28:00
from me it seems very strange to assume00:28:02
that once in power, well, who knows00:28:05
how life will turn out, that we will suddenly suddenly00:28:07
change our entire value system00:28:09
and start lying, stealing, telling00:28:12
lies and punishing the innocent,00:28:14
seeking an unfair trial, and00:28:17
so on,00:28:20
several different things can happen to these people,00:28:22
depending from what they did If00:28:25
we are talking about oligarchs who are the00:28:27
beneficiaries of loans-for-shares auctions, then this is the00:28:29
most00:28:31
difficult problem from the point of view of coming up with a00:28:33
solution, but then it is not difficult from the point00:28:35
of view of execution, mechanisms for00:28:38
compensatory taxes have been invented, there are some00:28:42
economically feasible options00:28:44
related to the compensation of that accidental00:28:48
profit which they acquired not as a00:28:50
result of doing business, but as a00:28:52
result of a random cross-section of00:28:54
circumstances. This is what is00:28:56
called Wind TA in English when money00:28:59
literally fell from the sky on them. And this is00:29:02
one mechanism that does not00:29:04
imply landing anyone or anywhere,00:29:06
which only implies00:29:08
an attempt to achieve some kind of social00:29:10
justice00:29:11
and social tranquility on the topic of00:29:14
what happened in the nineties, how00:29:17
unfairly00:29:18
the state acted then and how00:29:22
unfairly the benefits were distributed then,00:29:24
which were not intended for the oligarchs00:29:26
at all, but for some, but for the residents of the Omsk00:29:29
region, the residents of the Omsk region.00:29:31
Somehow the residents of the Omsk region need00:29:33
region to compensate for the fact that the00:29:36
Omsk Refinery paid gigantic taxes to00:29:40
two budgets, to the city budget of Omsk and to the00:29:42
regional budget of the Omsk region, but00:29:45
now I’m already afraid of making a digital mistake, but it00:29:47
seems to me that there was something in the region of a00:29:49
third of the budget at the moment when00:29:52
Sibneft appeared when it00:29:53
was privatized by Abramovich and Berezovsky,00:29:55
this money abruptly stopped entering the00:29:58
budget, people began to live worse, people became00:30:01
poorer, what should have been spent on00:30:05
maintaining the city in good00:30:08
condition on social payments on00:30:11
pensions on schools on hospitals as a result I00:30:14
settled on Gibraltar offshores, I00:30:17
think that the problem here is obvious and00:30:20
somehow this social00:30:22
injustice needs to be corrected, not in00:30:24
order to take revenge, you know, but in00:30:26
order to00:30:30
close and bury this issue of these00:30:32
unfortunate loans-for-shares auctions and never00:30:35
return to it. Well,00:30:38
never repeat this and try old mistakes00:30:40
somehow00:30:41
balance Well, there is such an00:30:43
opportunity if people if people00:30:46
mentioned in this series00:30:48
committed some crimes if00:30:50
if they have signs of illegal00:30:52
enrichment and then an independent court and an00:30:55
independent prosecutor's office in connection with the FB00:30:58
will establish that I am now imagining the situation00:31:01
Chuban's house in Alterations on a meter00:31:04
was built with some funds the00:31:05
origin of which is unclear or00:31:07
which are somehow connected with some kind of00:31:09
illegal activity Well, yes Then00:31:11
Chubais will have to be tried, perhaps he will be00:31:14
given some kind of prison term, most likely I would For00:31:17
example, I would like people to00:31:19
beautiful Russia, the future of00:31:20
economic articles did not00:31:22
physically imprison me It seems to me that this is00:31:24
wrong and such00:31:25
beliefs are absolutely necessary to00:31:30
isolate a person who is not dangerous to society, especially in such a00:31:32
terrible plague system Like the00:31:36
Russian For all this there are00:31:38
mechanisms for all this there are some00:31:41
solutions and none of them are connected with the00:31:43
execution, none of them are connected with00:31:46
lists and some kind of inevitable00:31:49
inevitable consequences. Well, first of all, I00:31:51
really want a discussion, I really want00:31:52
an admission of mistakes, to be honest, I really00:31:54
want to00:31:56
hear Lexi on the topic of what00:31:58
happened and and and00:32:00
then figure it out and some of them00:32:03
And some other group of these people00:32:04
mentioned in the nineties Floyd until00:32:06
2024 play an active and large role in00:32:09
Putin’s system, for example Potanin.00:32:12
He will have some kind of third story00:32:15
because he has a question not only about00:32:17
the nineties not only about Norilsk Nickel,00:32:18
which fell on his head, but about the fact00:32:20
that until 2024 he did not judge the war, he did not00:32:23
dissociate himself from Putin, he continued,00:32:25
at the beginning he sponsored the United00:32:27
Russia party, now he continues to sponsor00:32:29
some kind of aromatic rock and roll and is00:32:31
directly connected with Putin’s economy,00:32:34
is part of his regime, just00:32:36
like Abramovich, for example Abramovich. Also, he has00:32:38
n’t gone anywhere at all, if now00:32:40
he doesn’t like being called an00:32:41
oligarch, in fact, he remains an oligarch00:32:43
once he has some other00:32:46
story left, but I never And none of us from00:32:49
fbk As you say in your imaginary00:32:51
scenario where we come to power00:32:53
will impose and invent some kind of00:32:56
mechanism so that, at my request, at the00:32:59
request of Masha singers,00:33:02
something bad happens to someone. This is not my job, this is the00:33:04
work of the courts. I will never be in these courts00:33:06
I will never become a judge I will00:33:08
never become a prosecutor most likely I would00:33:12
just like to outline the boundaries and00:33:15
how politicians00:33:16
and how a political organization We are00:33:19
obliged to give an outline of this future And00:33:22
approximately what it will look like and00:33:24
everything else that is connected with repressions00:33:25
and executions and so on, these are some kind of00:33:28
horror stories literally reminiscent of00:33:30
ninety-six and the newspaper God forbid.00:33:33
By the way, I can tell you my two00:33:37
main problems with this investigation.00:33:40
But the rise of Yeltsin’s power began with the00:33:42
collapse of the USSR with the failure of the State Emergency Committee after that00:33:44
Yeltsin pulls the rug out from under00:33:46
Gorbachev and the state that was00:33:49
called the SSR, we won’t00:33:50
discuss the bad now, it was good,00:33:52
definitely bad. In general, his00:33:54
formation was a tragedy, the state is00:33:56
disappearing and it seems to me that everything00:33:59
that happened later was just a00:34:00
natural consequence of the collapse of the00:34:02
state, there is a lot of no-one’s property in the country00:34:04
there is no state in this00:34:06
situation Any enterprising person00:34:08
will grab what lies under their feet and00:34:10
by the way, I want to do this like a person00:34:12
Then I just lived, you said that the00:34:15
Omsk Refinery paid the budget, I will not00:34:17
specifically for the Omsk Refinery, perhaps the Omsk00:34:19
Refinery and Litskevich paid But what I00:34:22
absolutely remember And what is good about me there in00:34:25
and in the hunt for vision is described in many others00:34:29
that, in principle, all these red00:34:31
directors did not pay nichrome,00:34:33
including the workers, they had gigantic00:34:35
delays in both wages and00:34:39
debts to the budget, in fact, this is where the00:34:40
crisis of non-payments began, everything was paid with00:34:42
candy wrappers, the bad money was pulled out by the00:34:45
good ones, and with all this, it was00:34:48
when the oligarchs took it all away, after00:34:50
a while the crisis of non-payments00:34:52
ended, though mostly from00:34:58
time, this is the story that people were00:35:01
paid And the oligarchs came and everything turned out to be00:35:03
on the Cayman Islands, it’s just00:35:05
factually incorrect because00:35:07
everything was on the Cayman Islands before00:35:09
the oligarchs came, at least it became their00:35:10
property, they began to somehow do it in a slightly00:35:14
different way, very differently,00:35:16
just fundamentally differently to00:35:18
handle it because that it was a00:35:19
communal apartment, they bought the00:35:22
communal apartment, hung golden00:35:24
chandeliers Yes, we can say they00:35:28
treated the residents well, but the communal00:35:30
apartment00:35:31
stank.00:35:33
Uh-huh, you started your question with the fact that it00:35:36
seems to you that this is more likely about the ninety-00:35:37
first year, somewhere then it started It’s00:35:42
not clear that when00:35:45
a state collapses, state00:35:47
institutions disappear. Well, it’s simply impossible to do a00:35:50
normal business because business00:35:52
assumes that you can come to the00:35:53
cop, but if a Bandit comes to you and you00:35:57
can’t go to the cop, then you’ve been00:36:01
privatized in your place. Well, you or00:36:05
you either they kill you or you become00:36:07
an oligarch, that is, it is impossible to criticize00:36:09
people from a moral standpoint, what did they00:36:12
do in a situation that had collapsed?00:36:27
Thank you for the fact that they generously received for00:36:31
absolute pennies for free what00:36:34
otherwise could00:36:39
have been given to the red directors for absolutely free for absolute pennies in00:36:42
neither one of the parts of this equation is00:36:45
not correct, the correct and desired00:36:48
scenario, I’m not ready to tell people00:36:53
who scam00:36:57
assets to be glad that they00:36:59
did it because they00:37:02
threw some crumbs from the Master’s table to someone and they00:37:05
began to delay wages not for but 800:37:08
months but for six yes And00:37:12
some hypothetical threat of00:37:15
another red director disappeared, who also00:37:20
stole something and it’s so and so bad so and00:37:24
so bad No, no, I didn’t say that.00:37:26
You just have to correct you, this is one of the00:37:29
few actual corrections00:37:31
I’ll probably say. because, in principle, I00:37:33
absolutely agree with everything that is written00:37:35
in the film based on the facts Yes, but still, here’s a00:37:37
factual correction that before this,00:37:41
again, I don’t know about the city of Omsk, suddenly there00:37:43
were exceptions because there were00:37:44
such red directors and we know them00:37:46
who Well it’s just that00:37:48
they really paid everything. But about November Neftegaz, I00:37:51
can definitely say something or something about00:37:52
Yugansk, Neftegaz definitely didn’t pay anything,00:37:56
so it’s correct for everyone to say that00:37:59
before that the city received taxes. And after00:38:01
that, that means that’s it, that’s it. Well, it’s just00:38:03
in the case of a specific Omsk refinery the city00:38:06
had received it specifically before and then00:38:07
stopped receiving it and we know this well00:38:08
because there was a special00:38:10
Deputy Commission on this topic that00:38:12
investigated the question of where the money went and00:38:15
in this particular case we were lucky,00:38:17
perhaps and then Liskevich did not have to00:38:20
pay extra and had to pay more00:38:22
more because he may be a bad00:38:24
director, maybe there is something else, Liskevich00:38:27
died or Liskevich was killed too long ago00:38:29
to be able to analyze this in00:38:31
all seriousness Yes, the accounting books of00:38:34
his oil refinery until the year ninety-five Well,00:38:37
at least they don’t exist in the public domain00:38:38
and we are there We can’t evaluate00:38:40
their margins or their indicators00:38:43
or the quality of their business,00:38:47
but what happened happened, I don’t know00:38:50
how life would have turned out if the red00:38:52
directors had remained the00:38:54
actual owners of these00:38:55
enterprises. I don’t like this scenario either.00:38:57
I like scenarios where00:38:59
enterprises00:39:06
are corporatized of this enterprise00:39:08
are the people who work there, it00:39:10
creates Yes, some kind of initiative Well, it’s just that it’s00:39:13
economically better to work there and00:39:15
care more and have some kind of00:39:18
stronger connection, you understand that you are a00:39:20
small, albeit minority00:39:22
shareholder, and now you’re working for your00:39:24
own business but for your own00:39:26
business it’s always Yes, by definition,00:39:28
you work, you work better, but as a00:39:30
result we ended up in practically the00:39:32
worst possible scenario.00:39:34
First, it was all seized by oligarchs00:39:36
who can be read on the fingers of00:39:38
one hand, they earned crazy00:39:41
money from it, which00:39:42
they then spent, naturally00:39:47
business should strive for the common good,00:39:50
you see, it’s the same as scolding I don’t00:39:52
know Arich that he robbed Rome Well, yeah00:39:56
Cool Alaric can’t be helped00:39:58
Well, the question is how Yul is the question is how well, that00:40:01
is, naturally I don’t00:40:03
question any basic economic00:40:05
theories about the fact that every businessman00:40:07
tries to maximize his profit,00:40:09
naturally and of course at the head of Google. Every00:40:11
businessman has the benefit of00:40:15
getting benefits for himself, but00:40:17
the question is how do you, you can’t do00:40:21
it by illegal means no matter00:40:24
what and just for the sake of it killing00:40:26
people along the way at some Strelka00:40:28
showdowns,00:40:30
killing everyone who opposes you, be00:40:33
it the director, the mayor or someone else, well,00:40:34
there are some rules that00:40:37
you follow in00:40:39
an effort to extract the maximum00:40:42
economic benefit for00:40:44
yourself, I in no way impose on the00:40:46
oligarchs and businessmen00:40:49
are obliged to give a certain percentage of their00:40:52
profits somewhere to do00:40:55
charity or do00:40:56
something else, this is another broad question. I00:40:58
say00:40:59
that in theory it is necessary to build a00:41:02
state where it is beneficial for businessmen to00:41:04
take care of society and behave00:41:07
well and decently towards00:41:09
society And from this they have00:41:12
some kind of added value and00:41:13
their capital grows from this, but this is a00:41:15
completely different story. It is00:41:17
the state that should create such00:41:18
conditions and create so that00:41:21
they have00:41:22
the initiative to engage in social things,00:41:25
pay high salaries, see employees00:41:28
Yes so that it would be cool and classy, so that it would be00:41:30
considered prestigious to work in their00:41:33
company, and so that women who go on00:41:36
maternity leave at their workplace are00:41:38
paid more than one month’s salary, let’s say00:41:41
six Well, but that’s kind of a00:41:43
different question, how is this encouraged? How are they00:41:45
built? such systems and how it is possible to00:41:48
direct a business which, as you00:41:50
correctly say, by definition is00:41:52
aimed only at00:41:55
making a profit in some kind of00:41:58
monetary equivalent. How to properly00:42:00
direct it so that in parallel with this00:42:02
it also does, preferably, something00:42:04
Good good for society, but once again00:42:08
what you say is that you can00:42:12
understand these oligarchs who organized00:42:14
these loans-for-shares auctions that you understand00:42:16
that what they did logic x who forbade the00:42:20
cattle not to sell a voucher for a couple of00:42:23
bubbles I experience physical00:42:25
pain from such comments00:42:28
and I am absolutely Well, that is, they00:42:31
confuse me. I absolutely can’t00:42:32
understand how it’s even possible00:42:37
and who forbade cattle to participate in00:42:40
loans-for-shares auctions. Well, I don’t know, well,00:42:43
who forbade the ordinary person to work00:42:45
from the factory, just like Berezovsky00:42:49
at night somewhere out there and Abramovich00:42:50
I’m reaching an agreement with the state property about how the00:42:53
privatization of our oil will go,00:42:55
who Why won’t someone else do it? Well,00:42:58
it’s quite strange, it’s00:43:00
a little bit of a cannibal, it’s a little bit of a00:43:02
cannibalistic approach, isn’t it true, when everyone,00:43:05
everyone, Survival of the fittest. What if00:43:09
you didn’t have the opportunity to become oligarch00:43:11
- It’s your fault Everyone should strive to00:43:13
become an oligarch, push everyone out of the way00:43:15
on their way Well, this is00:43:17
simply wrong Well, we can go very far00:43:20
along this path of the fact that the end00:43:21
justifies the means and00:43:25
every person rules Only his own00:43:28
private selfish calculation, but00:43:31
it seems to me that this is the wrong logic00:43:34
and, and once again, a very important question is how how did this how did00:43:41
this mortgage00:43:43
auction this privatization was carried out00:43:46
and how did they try00:43:48
to maximize their profits how00:43:49
legal it was, how00:43:51
fair it was how much officials helped them in this00:43:53
and what they got for this00:43:55
in return, we are trying to figure it out and00:43:58
not with some more philosophical00:44:01
questions, which means about the entire00:44:04
factual part. I think you and I00:44:06
absolutely agree, but now I00:44:09
have two very serious questions, even I’m alone in a00:44:11
couple, I’m just saying it Let me put it this way:00:44:13
you say that the nineties and the00:44:15
oligarchs gave birth to Putin, then00:44:18
the question arises why the same nineties in00:44:20
Ukraine, everything happened there, the same thing, the00:44:21
same oligarchs did not give birth to Putin00:44:24
because the Ukrainian oligarchs00:44:26
were in fact the guarantors of freedom and we give00:44:29
what we owe to the Ukrainian people those who gathered00:44:31
twice on the Maidan But if there weren’t00:44:35
giant companies, giant holdings,00:44:39
including information ones, which were00:44:40
controlled by oligarchs who didn’t want00:44:43
one person to climb the mountain, then00:44:47
Well, at least everything was more complicated and, in general,00:44:49
from the n republics into which the00:44:51
Soviet Union collapsed we would to be honest, Well, yes, the00:44:54
Baltic countries separately, but in00:44:57
all the others, you somehow know00:45:00
without00:45:01
leaving the spot. Well, in the nineties, Varna in Georgia, the00:45:06
oligarchs under Shevardnadze there, too, there was an00:45:09
absolute abuse of power, they didn’t give00:45:12
birth to it. I think they didn’t give birth to Putin.00:45:15
Well, first of all, the first dili of00:45:18
Putin again Yes, well, well, again, firstly,00:45:21
firstly, they gave birth to Putin’s version Yes,00:45:24
and it cannot be said that in the former00:45:27
Central Asian republics there is00:45:29
some kind of democracy, as a result it turned out that it is00:45:31
clear that Belarus also exists, it is00:45:32
clear that there are different scenarios for00:45:35
me I don’t like this campaign because00:45:37
it’s some kind of casting everyone under the same00:45:39
brush and some kind of thinking that00:45:40
if we were all in the Soviet00:45:42
Union, then everything should00:45:44
turn out absolutely the same for us and00:45:45
work according to the same patterns does not00:45:48
take into account a huge amount of the context of the00:45:51
economy, different economies, we have different00:45:52
economic sizes, and with Ukraine with00:45:54
Belarus and with Estonia with Lithuania and with00:45:55
Latvia, different traditions, different history,00:45:59
different degrees of development of civil00:46:04
society, why am I already starting to00:46:07
rush you a little and interrupting you a little?00:46:09
I would give it to you it’s just absolutely simple, we00:46:11
agreed that it will be an hour, I00:46:13
still have a couple. It’s just my00:46:16
fault, I’m sick for something.00:46:18
You interrupt me, of course,00:46:20
if our pros, maybe we’ll00:46:25
continue somehow, I just want to clarify my00:46:27
question, he is that in00:46:29
Ukraine the oligarchs acted as guarantors00:46:32
of Freedom for you, despite all the shortcomings of the00:46:35
Ukrainian oligarchs. And therefore, don’t you00:46:38
think that it was this part of the thesis that00:46:41
Putin came out of the oligarchs,00:46:45
it could have come out something completely00:46:48
different Putin didn’t come out of the oligarchs00:46:50
specifically Putin came out of several00:46:53
components of this system of the nineties,00:46:55
one of which is the oligarchs, the00:46:58
other, the other component of this system00:47:00
is the family, the people who00:47:02
made the decision and specifically chose00:47:04
Putin between several candidates, those00:47:07
people who had the00:47:09
names Stepashin Nemtsov Primakov Chernomyrdin Putin written on some conventional piece of paper,00:47:18
who entered it in pencil00:47:20
pieces of paper and then put a tick00:47:22
next to Putin’s name, this is also part of00:47:24
the system that00:47:25
led to Putin, the oligarchs00:47:30
who paid for election campaigns00:47:32
and the oligarchs who paid for the creation of the00:47:34
unity party, which became a united00:47:35
Russia, this is also a factor that led00:47:38
Putin to power, the judicial reform that was not written, that was not00:47:41
implemented by Yeltsin00:47:43
in the nineties, this is also Part of the system00:47:45
that led to Putin, the lustration that was not carried out00:47:47
in the early nineties,00:47:50
which would probably have solved00:47:52
most of the problems that00:47:54
we are talking about, this is00:47:57
also Part of the system that led to00:47:58
Putin, television which belongs to00:48:01
the oligarchs and television where Berezovsky00:48:04
literally dictate stories to journalists,00:48:06
and journalists make unacceptable00:48:09
compromises with their conscience, this is also00:48:11
part of the system that brought Putin to00:48:14
power, so I in no way00:48:16
single out only oligarchs, oligarchs,00:48:17
I was dedicated in the first episode,00:48:20
but only part of it. There are many00:48:24
different factors that developed in00:48:26
such a catastrophic and inconvenient and00:48:28
wrong way that Putin became00:48:31
possible. But in fact, at the same00:48:35
time, NTV was saying everything00:48:38
that you say, including This is00:48:40
a family, it’s just Tanya Vali, it didn’t00:48:43
leave NTV Plus there were communists00:48:46
who said Robber00:48:47
privatization thief seven bankers And how is00:48:50
your message different? These are the same00:48:54
accusations that were made in the nineties,00:48:58
so what if they had a basis00:49:00
and were true Why should they be00:49:02
different? If someone told the truth it00:49:04
means that I can’t because Now00:49:06
they don’t sound on TV, that means00:49:09
something00:49:12
happened. I probably didn’t understand your00:49:14
question. Now it doesn’t sound. What’s on00:49:16
TV. Well, now the TV is different, which00:49:20
means, with all the shortcomings of all the00:49:23
years, they were radically different in some way00:49:26
and00:49:28
will turn into something else, of course, well that is,00:49:30
there is a reason why Putin, first of00:49:32
all, having come to power, before00:49:34
anything else, before any other sudden big00:49:36
movements, took up television and we00:49:38
remember very well who flew first and it00:49:40
was NTV. Well, it’s good, in parallel with this,00:49:43
at the legal level to re-register ORT,00:49:46
too, and Abramovich went to negotiations with00:49:50
Berezovsky and went out shvili, they00:49:52
dumped a lot of money there, squeezed Berezovsky out of there00:49:54
and then from the newspaper of Mayor Sant,00:49:58
of course, Putin, even being a person, in00:50:01
my understanding, not very distant and00:50:03
not very smart, let’s say so,00:50:06
he still came to the idea that without00:50:08
He won’t be able to rule completely over the media00:50:12
because he wants to rule,00:50:15
did I like the way it looked like what00:50:20
television looked like in the late00:50:22
nineties Well, to be honest, it’s also not00:50:24
great because there was a lot of lying there and00:50:27
really this is cross-00:50:28
wetting by two channels in the same demo year,00:50:32
two00:50:33
two two different, as it were, headquarters, yes, it00:50:37
wasn’t all great either, but of course, if00:50:40
you choose it was better than what we00:50:43
have now, it’s not an optimal system,00:50:46
but on this scale it seems to me00:50:49
closer to00:50:50
plus, now they write to us Marie doesn’t sound00:50:54
like radical write e cynic versus00:50:57
romantic I have two more here very00:51:00
handy yes probably Probably this is from00:51:02
some Probably this is from some00:51:04
opera I’m just more naive there Yul than00:51:06
you and that’s why it seems to me that00:51:09
what I’m saying is at least is feasible00:51:11
and is not is not any00:51:13
unattainable fantasy For some reason it00:51:15
seems to me that we have everything there00:51:17
Western society Europe As an example where,00:51:19
of course, social justice has not been achieved,00:51:22
not economic00:51:23
justice, but which is needed, but how do00:51:25
they at least try and I really want it00:51:28
to Russia, too, someday ended up00:51:29
in that at that point where at least where00:51:33
they at least tried and00:51:35
where the00:51:38
cynics did not00:51:39
win. No, I’m just very afraid of all00:51:42
social systems that are built on the00:51:44
requirement that a person be kind because this is00:51:47
precisely the most terrible00:51:49
social system system I read this00:51:51
thesis of yours, I didn’t understand it at all,00:51:53
why there is nothing bad in it,00:51:55
because when00:51:58
kindness is required from a person, kindness, you know, this is00:52:01
what is on top, this is what comes as00:52:02
a bonus, and if a person is also kind and00:52:07
if a person is also generous, this is us00:52:10
we’re just saying Well, Wow, this is like a00:52:13
top makeweight in the store system,00:52:15
including the American system. It’s00:52:17
built on the World Cup understanding that all people are00:52:20
Bastards and you ate this understanding, the00:52:27
basis is that people should be00:52:29
good, you get either a church or00:52:33
communism or a00:52:35
gulak I’m with I strongly disagree with you,00:52:38
this is probably very00:52:40
interesting,00:52:46
yes, of course I think that of course you can00:52:49
force yourself to be kind. Of course you can00:52:51
force yourself to be fair. Of course00:52:54
you can force yourself to have00:52:56
rules and some moral00:53:00
canons, you can just decide not to do that00:53:02
and not do that. I I don’t see any.00:53:05
It seems to me that on the contrary, such00:53:06
behavior needs to be cultivated and encouraged in00:53:08
every possible way economically, this is what we have00:53:10
already discussed a little. I’m saying00:53:12
that people who behave and00:53:15
adhere to the correct00:53:16
set of values should be encouraged, including it00:53:18
should be economically profitable to be00:53:20
kind it should be beneficial to be00:53:22
socially00:53:24
oriented, dividends per00:53:26
share should increase for those00:53:28
companies00:53:29
that behave well in00:53:33
relation to some kind of collective00:53:35
good and there is no need to be afraid of these words, it is00:53:37
clear that in any case, it’s like a00:53:39
trend in the development of business now and00:53:43
business is focused on social00:53:44
justice it goes there and there is00:53:46
nothing absolutely shameful about it no Listen, that’s00:53:50
when it happens Sorry, I’m00:53:52
just saying a little on my own here00:53:54
then the following happens all good00:53:56
everyone is good but then a00:53:58
cheater is bound to appear in society and00:54:00
some conditional Black who00:54:02
You guys say, give it to me, or if a00:54:06
business begins to spare for social00:54:07
orientation, then firstly, it was the same thing that00:54:10
mu pickles did, he said that business00:54:11
had to be socially responsible. And00:54:14
secondly,00:54:15
now it’s called dei, when the00:54:18
Commissioners sit and hire Yes, there are people00:54:21
who maybe they don’t correspond very well,00:54:23
not very well, that is, if00:54:27
Business has social responsibility, then there00:54:28
will always be00:54:30
a Commissioner who determines its00:54:31
social responsibility, if there is00:54:33
a Commissioner who determines00:54:35
how business should exist, then00:54:39
business is00:54:41
over, you and I here have an absolute00:54:44
ideological ideological split00:54:47
Of course, I don’t think that anyone should be00:54:48
forced to00:54:49
work and be given a social burden,00:54:51
let’s put it this way, I don’t think that it should00:54:54
be mandatory, I don’t think that Shell00:54:55
employees should be forced out00:54:58
for mandatory work.00:55:00
And community work days to clean up the00:55:05
coastline from oil products, but still00:55:08
less, I still believe that the00:55:09
Shell company, not necessarily on a00:55:11
voluntary basis, in the00:55:14
order of its social contribution,00:55:16
of course, must itself clean the00:55:19
coastline of its own oil products and for some reason00:55:24
this seems to me very very I don’t00:55:26
understand why was there this logic? It00:55:28
seems to me that especially at a young age,00:55:30
many are a little inclined towards it, it doesn’t00:55:34
matter what the price is, it doesn’t matter what they think of00:55:42
me. Man is a wolf to man. I’ll achieve everything here now. And I don’t care what anyone thinks about me.00:55:43
terrible cynicism and egocentrism00:55:48
and reasoning on the topic that if you00:55:50
haven’t achieved something, it’s your problem, it’s00:55:52
your problem, that you don’t have a billion,00:55:54
yes, I quoted a00:55:57
classic, it’s known to be a classic who00:56:00
now has no billion, who has00:56:01
absolutely no billion now doesn’t even00:56:03
smell like this billions and I want to00:56:05
say it to him himself, I just00:56:09
understand that there are a large00:56:11
number of people who00:56:13
think so. You think so, but I’m00:56:15
just trying to carefully win you over to00:56:17
my side and say that it’s possible if00:56:19
we economically encourage people00:56:21
who behave well they do good00:56:23
deeds, pay a lot of taxes to the city00:56:26
treasury, and this money goes to00:56:30
improve the well-being and quality of life of00:56:33
their employees, the same people00:56:35
who create your business for you and00:56:37
work in it every day, what is this00:56:39
good about, and what does this have to do with00:56:41
the Commissioners, I don’t really understand And00:56:44
here are some horror stories00:56:46
that talk about equalization or00:56:50
something else. It’s also not clear to me, it seems to me00:56:52
that if you want and with a good00:56:55
approach to this, everything can be done00:56:56
much more00:56:58
elegantly. I propose to simply state00:57:01
this as a topic of discussion00:57:03
should business be good because it00:57:04
seems to me that we just00:57:07
found out what we have with you in the process, we just need to00:57:08
call some oligarch to00:57:11
listen to it after all, not you and00:57:13
me who it seems to me I don’t know about00:57:15
you but I I suspect that you are also very00:57:17
far from the oligarchic00:57:20
state, so perhaps it makes00:57:22
sense for us to judge this with someone who, at00:57:24
least, was able to, and unlike us,00:57:27
was established as a businessman and as an00:57:30
entrepreneur, they will not00:57:32
talk publicly, they prefer00:57:35
to remain silent, so this is because00:57:37
they adhere to your school of thought Yul00:57:39
because they adhere to your00:57:40
school of thought and also tell us that it is not00:57:42
profitable for us to give an interview00:57:44
And then when they give, things like this happen00:57:47
like what happened with the interview with Avin and00:57:49
Friedman, and when Friedman wrote that00:57:51
he was given an interview Well not even an interview,00:57:53
please comment on the fact that he has00:57:55
nothing to pay for the maids, and Avin said00:57:57
that he regrets the investments00:58:01
he made in Europe. Well, that’s why00:58:03
it turns out, And you introduce the00:58:07
FDM regulation, there’s really no reason to00:58:09
pay for the00:58:11
maids, I’m trying to find it in myself.00:58:14
You see what - moral qualities to00:58:16
experience at least a share of compassion for00:58:19
Mihara’s problems, the fact that he cannot00:58:22
maintain his Magnificent ankha in the00:58:24
condition that he deserves, but00:58:26
you know, this is already beyond my00:58:28
borders And here I can’t, I00:58:32
can’t scrape me together let’s say00:58:34
I would sympathize with him much more00:58:36
if he openly spoke out against00:58:39
the war if he openly spoke out00:58:40
against Putin if he was00:58:42
born in Ukraine If I’m not mistaken00:58:44
yes in Lvov maybe he somehow helped00:58:46
restore00:58:49
restore that’s it there is then it00:58:51
would be possible that some kind of00:58:54
business would be taken away from Ukraine Marie00:58:57
Well, they are taking it away, well, the question here is00:58:58
that it is primarily being taken away for00:59:01
what year from silence for what year of00:59:04
silence But this is wrong,00:59:05
nothing should be taken away from anyone, of course if00:59:08
it’s all legal, there’s no need to take anything away from anyone, no matter how00:59:09
strange it may sound00:59:12
right now for those who for some reason00:59:14
constantly accuse me of demanding that00:59:15
everything be taken away and divided.00:59:18
But just because we00:59:21
tried to persuade you not to sort it out, I00:59:26
sit quietly for a minute 15 I have00:59:29
an excellent one, but still I mean a discussion about00:59:31
good business because it’s just that00:59:33
we will have Adam Smith versus I don’t00:59:37
know Karl Marx versus Ludwig00:59:40
Mises, so I propose that we still declare00:59:44
this as a big topic somewhere there00:59:46
I don’t know in 2-3 weeks when you will have00:59:48
time, but I still have two00:59:50
specific questions. First, don’t you think00:59:52
that00:59:56
this approach is harmful to your political prospects, because00:59:57
although now everything you said00:59:59
sounded very correct and quite01:00:03
absolutely in a European way, because it01:00:06
means that a lot of people are01:00:08
noticing this here. And now01:00:11
Russian business01:00:13
will listen to this, not only the oligarchs and say01:00:15
this,01:00:16
but guys, we’d better keep our01:00:20
wrong incomes. Meanwhile, these01:00:24
people are01:00:27
good, arrogant, greedy, smart smart,01:00:30
punchy,01:00:31
and these people mean a lot because01:00:35
they simply have an iron will and01:00:36
iron balls, and many of whom you are undergoing01:00:39
surgery do not have this iron will with01:00:42
iron01:00:43
balls I didn’t understand jelly eggs Sorry, it’s just that we do01:00:48
n’t introduce new characters into01:00:49
our conversation It seems to me that on01:00:53
the scale of iron will and01:01:03
yes there was this iron will, everything01:01:06
else seems to me that they01:01:11
behaved, this is the same as what I said, a01:01:14
businessman maximizes profit and does not01:01:16
change the state, so it01:01:19
seems to him that the maximum will be,01:01:26
of course, during Putin’s time he behaves01:01:28
completely differently In short, if01:01:30
you go against the successful and01:01:34
successful class and elite of society, then you01:01:38
run a very big risk that this elite weighs a lot01:01:42
and they will say no, we don’t need this.01:01:45
Well, that is, you are hinting that I01:01:48
should somehow what I believe in01:01:51
and consider correct01:01:56
so as to please the elites and soften01:02:00
some corners in order to soften some01:02:05
corners so that Alexander Mamut will not be offended by me01:02:08
or so that01:02:10
Roman Abramovich or anyone else will not be offended by me01:02:13
from the heroes or even Tanya01:02:16
get lost I understand what you mean01:02:20
Many people do this, I’ll tell you more, but I01:02:23
absolutely definitely do not belong to them01:02:25
and will never belong. Perhaps it’s a01:02:28
question of upbringing. Perhaps it’s01:02:30
just a question of some kind of book I don’t know01:02:31
by chance. in childhood and01:02:34
or Look at the films, I don’t feel01:02:36
any reverence for these01:02:40
elites, I don’t admire them,01:02:44
they don’t seem like geniuses to me, their01:02:46
economic success doesn’t seem impressive to me,01:02:48
you know, you’re so often on01:02:51
your other broadcasts, I watch01:02:53
and listen to you often So you01:02:54
talk about them a little breathlessly. That’s why such01:02:57
great fellows have achieved so much, and this is the01:02:59
state you have to be able to01:03:02
do, but such claws, such teeth, just like that, there’s01:03:07
meat sticking out of my mouth. And01:03:10
I have this, but I don’t. I feel it, I’m01:03:13
trying to see it, understand it and how to evaluate it, but it does01:03:16
n’t seem to me like some kind of good01:03:19
feeling01:03:21
which doesn’t seem to me like some kind of01:03:23
achievement or something that01:03:26
deserves a positive assessment.01:03:28
You know, when a01:03:30
gigantic Soviet enterprise falls on your head,01:03:32
yes, yes, bad working Yes, there is already a01:03:34
subsection under the bitten by the red01:03:38
directors Yes with employees who Well, because of the01:03:42
current social situation01:03:44
due to the collapse of the country and Being01:03:46
completely abandoned there, they began to drink,01:03:48
do not come to work, work poorly and01:03:51
anything else and there are so many01:03:53
problems in the country So01:03:56
this gigantic enterprise fell on you,01:03:58
what did you manage to do in a team of good01:04:01
managers, of which there are in abundance in Russia? Yes,01:04:04
smart, educated people with an01:04:06
excellent technical education, a01:04:08
specialist with an excellent mathematical01:04:10
education. Well, if you were able to01:04:12
build this entire company into this business model01:04:16
based on Norilsk Nickel based on Yukos01:04:20
based on Sedanka or anything else in such a01:04:23
way that you started to earn a little01:04:25
more money and you were able to start paying01:04:28
normal salaries and receive normal01:04:29
dividends I don’t think this is some kind of01:04:31
super achievement, to be honest it’s not the01:04:33
same as business start from scratch These01:04:37
people are these oligarchs from the nineties They did01:04:39
n’t invent anything, they didn’t01:04:42
come up with anything They don’t have any scientific01:04:44
breakthrough know-how and they don’t launch rockets into space01:04:47
either They just did01:04:52
n’t They just didn’t continue the Soviet01:04:55
Soviet Heritage that they got01:04:57
by accident that’s why I don’t feel before01:04:59
now I’m behind the ring back the thought that’s why01:05:01
I don’t feel an epithet in front of them as01:05:02
businessmen I’m not interested in their01:05:06
business real estate of01:05:25
which everyone there was blackmailed, killed,01:05:27
scored with arrows Well, I can’t01:05:30
admire this no matter how you01:05:32
persuade me, using Here01:05:35
using Adam Smith’s theses doesn’t01:05:37
work. I admire completely01:05:39
different, completely different people and01:05:41
therefore I’m not ready to01:05:43
polish my truth for them. I’m not ready to01:05:46
smooth out any corners for them. I’m not01:05:49
even ready to somehow change the01:05:52
wording in order for them to01:05:54
like me. it doesn’t matter what01:05:56
Friedman and Avin or01:05:59
other oligarchs and participants in events think about me, and01:06:02
so on, it’s much more important to me than the01:06:05
opinion of those people who are01:06:07
subscribed to our channel or the opinion of those01:06:09
people who are watching this Stream right01:06:11
now so that they think that’s okay So01:06:13
she told the truth, she wasn’t scared,01:06:15
everything was honest, she named all the facts, she01:06:17
sorted out their opinion, but the01:06:19
opinion of the heroes is important to me. At least our01:06:21
anti-corruption investigations of our01:06:23
series, absolutely what they want, not well, not01:06:26
heroes, but business in principle, yes,01:06:29
Russian Elites, but the answer to in fact, it is01:06:32
completely accepted because I will even01:06:34
make a small remark. Here, when01:06:37
the Stream began, they wrote to us. And what01:06:40
was the purpose of the investigation of the singers?01:06:43
Ask what the purpose was, I thought, I won’t01:06:45
ask this question because this01:06:47
question reminds me of the story in Master01:06:49
Margarita, remember the editor who01:06:51
asks the masters And who advised you01:06:53
to write a novel on such a strange topic Well, that’s for01:06:56
sure because I know the same thing01:06:58
about money And why did you say that And01:07:01
why did you say that01:07:02
I said that because I think so01:07:05
and I don’t care Yes, here I am Excuse me01:07:10
I think so, he thinks so, I don’t01:07:15
understand Well, it’s more than that I’m ready01:07:18
to answer the question about the01:07:19
purpose of01:07:24
this01:07:26
Sunday on the first of the month we sat and01:07:28
discussed it. That’s why01:07:30
this series was invented and made. I want01:07:33
this discussion to continue after the01:07:35
Second episode which we we will release very01:07:36
soon about it, it will be about loans-for-shares01:07:38
auctions. And this, Believe me, this is many,01:07:40
many, many hours of history, and I am very01:07:43
worried because the history of tax01:07:45
auctions is01:07:47
very complex, and my task was01:07:49
to tell it simply so that people01:07:50
without economic education and without01:07:52
knowledge and recollection of those times01:07:54
so that they understand everything, I’m afraid I’m worried Will01:07:57
I tell you normally, will they understand, will01:07:59
they think it’s boring Stuffy, and so01:08:01
on, this series was invented in order to01:08:05
tell in detail our01:08:08
political position, the position of Alexei01:08:10
Navalny on this topic, and then01:08:12
initiate and take part in an01:08:14
interesting public discussion about01:08:17
the past, which is actually about the future.01:08:21
Can I tell you about the collateral asono? You can01:08:24
tell me whether your situation is correct,01:08:27
what is pain, an evil share, and people needed to01:08:32
get gigantic pieces of01:08:35
property as much as possible and as cheaply as possible and to justify this They01:08:38
said that if you give us these01:08:41
pieces of property Boris Nikolaevich, then01:08:43
they will go away from the red directors01:08:45
who will support the communists and in01:08:47
general we will support you. It was01:08:51
like such a Feast thing that sank01:08:53
Boris Nikolaevich and he responded to this I bought it01:08:57
and this is very simplified but close to the truth01:09:01
I advise all viewers who see01:09:04
this is a cool combination those people01:09:06
who did it did a very cool01:09:08
thing Well, why why do01:09:12
Why do dishonest wrong01:09:14
things How is it rigging elections or01:09:17
washing mo propaganda is cool Yul01:09:20
cool to be kind is cool to be honest it's01:09:23
cool to be fair it's cool01:09:25
when a person comes to you Even if01:09:28
he is from state property or from some01:09:30
Ministry and says Masha Julia we01:09:32
have the opportunity to squeeze out the factory girls01:09:35
let's take it you only need to do01:09:37
a few streams and here we01:09:39
are that's cool to say to that01:09:43
No because it's dishonest because01:09:45
it's01:09:50
unfair you and I are01:09:52
structured differently but I01:09:59
love the fact01:10:01
that we are structured this way it does01:10:03
n't really make us look good it's01:10:05
just a feature of our01:10:07
world order last01:10:09
question Abramovich and Fridman01:10:12
are somehow different from Rotenberg and Kolka, from01:10:15
your point of01:10:20
view, I01:10:24
can’t equate them because of course,01:10:29
they are directly on Well, that is, giving a01:10:32
bribe to Putin directly. Yes, this is still a01:10:36
very clear delineated scale of01:10:39
the crime, but Abramovich gave money01:10:42
for the palace to Putin just like01:10:47
And the money for the palace was given to Putin by01:10:50
Kovalchuk Rotenberg01:10:53
Egorov anyone in the heap there the01:10:56
size of their bribe is different the time their01:10:58
bribes are different this is what this is01:11:02
why I say that Yes they are different and01:11:06
the fact that they did it and gave this is01:11:08
why after the word Yes comes01:11:10
the word But because, in01:11:13
principle,01:11:14
in the twenty-fifth year of01:11:18
Putin’s reign, a businessman who has01:11:22
some kind of direct monetary01:11:24
relationship with Putin is of course it is of course it is of01:11:27
course Absolutely there is an order that Well01:11:31
this is something that doesn’t deserve01:11:32
any Absolutely not01:11:35
I can’t think of any excuse. I understand01:11:38
that the degree of involvement of some01:11:40
oligarchs in Putin’s system is01:11:42
less. But if we still break it down01:11:46
to a binary system, then the answer is rather yes, the01:11:55
difference, if we really simplify it, is01:11:59
small.01:12:01
Well, what’s that for you? Listen, but for you,01:12:04
Kovalchuk? and Rotenberg if they01:12:05
came to us on Stream They also01:12:07
told you that they are just maximizing everything,01:12:09
maximizing profits and they will say But this is01:12:11
what to assign to us, we have a task,01:12:13
we01:12:15
need to earn money, we need to01:12:18
have budgets in order to build01:12:19
Olympic facilities or build01:12:21
Something else,01:12:22
we are investing something in the Russian01:12:25
economy here. Man is a wolf to man.01:12:28
Rotenberg will tell you exactly the same thing,01:12:30
Kovalchuk will tell you with all his01:12:32
several generations and all the other01:12:34
Putin oligarchs will tell you exactly the same thing,01:12:36
why I can’t understand you then you01:12:38
also allow this for them, that is, in01:12:41
this regard, your economic theory01:12:44
extends to them, and Kovalchuk and01:12:47
Rotenberg deserve some kind of01:12:49
leniency, I ask you a counter01:12:53
question. My theory is01:12:56
that the deh oligarchs are show01:13:14
jumpers, even like01:13:17
this and,01:13:19
accordingly, saying that a hundred01:13:22
wallets show pam I01:13:26
would listen with pleasure If you01:13:29
proved this, although there is something to prove,01:13:32
some things are absolutely01:13:34
obvious, that is, this is for me.01:13:36
The key thing is that in the nineties there was01:13:39
competition and with all the shortcomings of01:13:42
the system, but this absolutely01:13:45
catastrophic thing happened with01:13:47
the collapse of the USSR Not because01:13:54
the truth is, if we go back to the loans-for-shares01:13:57
auctions, it was a completely cartel with01:14:00
talk, there was no competition, they01:14:01
just distributed everything, they collected it from01:14:03
Potanin’s office, watch our next01:14:05
episode, they gathered from Potanin’s office01:14:07
And they distributed it, it’s not competition when01:14:11
Khodorkovsky submits a fake application for a01:14:13
loans-for-shares auction for oil where it01:14:15
is known in advance that01:14:17
Abramovich and Berezovsky will win. And this01:14:20
creates the appearance that this is not01:14:22
competition. No, this is not competition.01:14:25
Competition was in a lot of other things.01:14:27
Loan auctions Yes, this is a separate01:14:29
episode. We just discussed this. It01:14:32
just seems to me that we are a little let's01:14:34
sort through time Yes, Maria I01:14:37
propose to set the topic for a new01:14:40
discussion Should a person be kind01:14:43
by nature, this is how the philosopher MZ01:14:46
formulates whether a person is good by nature01:14:49
and how01:14:51
you, well, actually, we01:14:55
just stop there. Thank you so much. We have01:14:58
a lot of people here write someone agrees with you01:15:00
someone agrees with me Which01:15:05
means write Lord, I really thought it01:15:08
was very interesting and extremely01:15:11
extremely important It was I don’t think it was aired01:15:14
with Thank you, call again Maria again, in my opinion,01:15:18
it was just gorgeous and01:15:21
most importantly, we01:15:23
found out a fundamental disagreement01:15:26
which, like all fundamental01:15:30
disagreements, is just discussed in01:15:33
dialogue, not people with01:15:36
batons cancel each other out, but this01:15:39
is the subject of a deep dialogue01:15:42
before the meeting Thank you very much, bye01:15:46
Yulia Latynina Maria01:15:50
singers Do not forget the Lord01:15:52
to subscribe to our channel Don’t forget01:15:54
to share the links to this broadcast Because to01:15:56
be honest, I’m terribly pleased We haven’t01:15:58
had such an important one for a long time and I would01:16:00
say it’s01:16:02
meaningful. I honestly didn’t want01:16:04
a discussion. I just wanted Marie01:16:06
to answer my questions and I, as you01:16:10
saw them I asked very carefully and respectfully01:16:13
because I prefer when01:16:14
Well, there is a person He should speak and I,01:16:18
but in the end the discussion still01:16:23
happened and that was all01:16:27
goodbye Subscribe Yes I Well, I01:16:30
told everyone and Subscribe naturally and01:16:32
watch the film traitors and therefore Well,01:16:35
this is an extremely interesting statement01:16:38
and importantDescription:
18+ НАСТОЯЩИЙ МАТЕРИАЛ (ИНФОРМАЦИЯ) ПРОИЗВЕДЕН И (ИЛИ) РАСПРОСТРАНЕН ИНОСТРАННЫМ АГЕНТОМ ЛАТЫНИНОЙ ЮЛИЕЙ ЛЕОНИДОВНОЙ ЛИБО КАСАЕТСЯ ДЕЯТЕЛЬНОСТИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА ЛАТЫНИНОЙ ЮЛИИ ЛЕОНИДОВНЫ Мария Певчих, Кто предатели, что делать и с какого места все пошло не так? И что об этом думал Алексей Навальный? Что будет в Прекрасной России Будущего с олигархами времен Ельцина? Добр ли бизнесмен по природе? #певчих #латынина # #latyninatv Помочь нашему каналу: Patreon https://www.patreon.com/join/3340678/checkout https://www.paypal.com/donate/?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=YQ6SDALR7UFAJ&source=url https://www.paypal.me/latynina через ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/latynina1 Кроме этого, пожертвовать на развитие этого канала можно, зайдя на его главную страницу и нажав на кнопочку с синей головкой, расположенной справа вверху рядом с плашкой YL-сайт. Пожертвовать на развитие этого канала с карточки можно, зайдя на сайт http://latynina.tv/, и там вверху слева висит крупная кнопка донейт. Нам можно также пожертвовать деньги переводом на счет нашей организации LATYNINAORG MTÜ IBAN EE421010220274614225 SWIFT EEUHEE2X Bitcoin Address - bc1qltgykx93plrpp32ygktl4srzz4z5sa467ppafq bitcoincash:qq2uhptcx7qqxvtpgqs2spca6urgwuckxsc79vd39j Algo LXHCP5VLSULJTYNK3QXBXYA3YQ5RT7G3UKGKY4IDFAYGIKTDIO3SONPNNM Мой личный фейсбук https://www.facebook.com/yulia.latynina.7 мой твиттер https://twitter.com/YLatynina Телеграмм - https://t.me/Ylatynina подписывайтесь Инстаграм Латыниной https://www.instagram.com/latynina.tv/ тикток здесь http://www.tiktok.com/@yulialatynina (подписывайтесь) страница в фейсбуке со всеми ссылками на видео и пр. https://www.facebook.com/Y.Latynina Наш сайт http://www.latynina.tv
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