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Russian
00:00:05
already on the air, let's say again that even the whale00:00:10
1000 is very super good with00:00:15
minor technical00:00:18
problems, but still, it00:00:21
seems to me that we are starting our00:00:25
round table, hello everyone, my00:00:28
name is shades of Hungary, today00:00:31
his guest moderator is on the youtube00:00:33
channel, Lyubov Sobol, we are00:00:36
discussing today I have the topic of Russia after the war00:00:40
here? I’ll explain later why I00:00:43
put it up for now I welcome the00:00:46
participants of our00:00:49
round table of our small00:00:51
conference this is Yulia Latynina journalist00:00:55
writer and Yulia hello get it I’m00:00:59
actually love sable and the owner of00:01:01
the channel thank you for providing this00:01:03
platform love sable politician love00:01:06
hello hello very glad to00:01:08
see everyone00:01:09
Mark Feigin and lawyer hello Mark00:01:12
Andrey Usachev things and politician Mikhail00:01:17
Khodorkovsky hello Mikhail Borisov00:01:19
600:01:21
actually why did I put it?00:05:06
on the topic of Russia after the war, can we say that now on April 11 we are already at the point when we can say the word after that is, if each of you has some pretty clear understanding of how it will all end since we can assume what will happen after this war Yulia Latynina, please have the floor, no, I don’t have a clear understanding because what makes war different is that circumstances change every second, and for example, Putin intended to capture Kyiv for 2 days, we see that he failed, then they said that they were moving to plan b and they send troops into the Donbass, but we see now that, apparently, the body of the lawsuit who left the storm on washing machines and refrigerators, they were not very capable and I’m not trying to regroup them in Klintsy, they are all trying to avoid this matter, but not all but apparently many people, I have no doubt that the offensive in the Donbass will begin sooner or later, the question of the combat effectiveness of these units is in question, and since everything that happens is actually decided on the battlefield, and on the battlefield the situation is by definition unpredictable, then of course you don’t know how it will end and this is the most important thing, any salt please, the same question for you, do you think we are already at the point where we can discuss after the war, if you have an understanding of how it will end, as for the war with Ukraine, of course the war is not over and there are different forecasts for assessing when the hot phase will pass and everything can go into the phase of a cold protracted war of aggression already in the east of Ukraine and so on, but I think that this is not being presented for discussion, but on the contrary, it may even be a little late. I think that now this is a reflection on what Russia should look like, what will happen after the war, what will happen after Putin, what to do now and what to do then, these are very pressing issues and they are on the agenda now, it seems to me even more than ever, that’s why I think that now it’s all that needs to be discussed, in fact, that’s why I initiated this conference for me It seems to be such a reflex that it should begin and let it take place at different venues with different guests speakers journalists politicians public figures Apennines makers and expresses some points of view there will be arguments people somewhere will find compromises but this is what needs to be discussed now and where is Putin there is a war, that is, now we see the sewerage of technical processes from the crisis in which Putin arrived in our country, and sooner or later we will have to get out of this crisis, here’s how to do it on our own I wanted to discuss and maybe not only in this conference we still will end, but so that such a discussion can continue to live in our society, thank you very much, this is a great question, and Mark is awesome, too, if you now have some understanding of how this could end, because after all, this is also an important one. from which you can make the following00:05:10
assumptions about what will happen after,00:05:12
well, you know, in principle,00:05:15
a war can end in three ways:00:05:18
defeat, victory or a draw,00:05:22
which is often like a defeat00:05:24
indistinguishable from a victory, or vice versa, absolutely00:05:27
absolutely in this design there will definitely not00:05:31
be a victory because victory is00:05:33
assumed to be something completely different completely different00:05:36
character and consequences,00:05:39
but something in between the defeat, we00:05:41
already have nothing for him now, that is, in00:05:44
order to discuss what will00:05:46
happen next, but it is important to understand the00:05:49
attitude of Putin’s own government to what00:05:52
happened for him, this is certainly a challenge00:05:55
and this is the last We see this challenge has many00:05:58
reasons, since he is in a00:06:00
certain terminal stage and physical00:06:02
political, well, he’s just been sitting for a very long time,00:06:05
and so on, and00:06:07
such a cannibal, in general, of course, the deadline is that00:06:09
Mary, so for him the last00:06:12
opportunity, in my opinion, to00:06:14
somehow convert the defeat at least00:06:18
in a draw it is necessary to show a real00:06:20
result,00:06:21
not one that could be00:06:24
meaninglessly interpreted because00:06:26
I often hear the point of view that you can00:06:29
sell for a victory, at least a relatively00:06:32
local success, like Mariupol will take,00:06:34
like Kherson under control,00:06:36
this is a very vulnerable point of view because00:06:39
what Yulia Latynina said correctly,00:06:41
the situation is changeable by everyone, what did you00:06:43
take from the morning already lost, so he will not00:06:47
be satisfied, he cannot be satisfied with the00:06:49
relative result here,00:06:50
relativism will not be allowed, he still00:06:53
needs it00:06:54
because of all the costs that00:06:57
this war brings with it, these are costs not only00:07:00
military associated with the field of more00:07:02
dead and so on, but also with what00:07:05
he transferred the country to, that is, or the state is00:07:09
now exactly up to00:07:12
24 fat, but this abyss is not only a matter of00:07:15
sanctions in the economic war that00:07:17
the West00:07:18
launched against the Putin regime, but to00:07:22
a large extent00:07:24
the phase it has entered country00:07:26
because in the field of economics it is definitely not00:07:30
state capitalism, it is something else with the00:07:32
distributive elements of the region in00:07:35
politics, but a shrinking circle of00:07:38
managers in an authoritarian system with00:07:41
individual totalitarian cops who00:07:44
are transforming the totalitarian system00:07:46
for real, that is, the total coverage is00:07:48
already evident private freedom minus the street and00:07:53
in this situation you need to somehow justify00:07:56
everything everything that happens the social00:07:58
situation will change for the00:08:00
worse he is the situation of the country as a whole in00:08:02
a minute00:08:04
so I assume that Putin has a00:08:07
desire to convert this draw or00:08:10
non-victory into at least some at least a00:08:13
relative local local00:08:15
win Oshima big Mikhail00:08:19
Khodorkovsky please00:08:21
welcome everyone but of course I agree with00:08:25
anyone about what to talk about00:08:27
after the war it’s time00:08:31
because when it’s after us here somehow00:08:34
in general I think we won’t have so much00:08:38
time for00:08:41
Is it possible to say with certainty today00:08:45
how it will be after that, probably not yet,00:08:48
although some contradictions are already visible, we00:08:51
understand that00:08:54
Putin has not won the war here, I agree with Mark,00:08:56
he had quite00:08:59
specific tasks, he did not achieve these tasks,00:09:03
as we understand and did not could have achieved00:09:07
because Ukraine is an already established00:09:09
national state, he wo00:09:11
n’t notice his bunker, the second thing is that00:09:14
we can convincingly say today in general with00:09:17
full confidence that sanctions00:09:19
will not be lifted as long as00:09:22
Putin is in power and these sanctions were00:09:26
most of them will not be lifted means00:09:28
that Russia will have a huge damage00:09:31
on the00:09:33
international market, that is, the country will not be00:09:36
able to in any way be00:09:39
technologically00:09:41
consistent with its scale from a00:09:44
technological point of view, that is, there are00:09:46
no highly paid jobs there,00:09:48
no developed science,00:09:52
no high efficiency in00:09:54
production, which is not clear to00:09:58
us it is unclear today because even though00:10:01
he is clearly not at war with Ukraine, but00:10:04
many times he already talks about this grief, he is at00:10:06
war with the United States, and00:10:11
we don’t know where the final end point of00:10:13
this war will be at this station,00:10:23
will there be a crossing of the border of Ukraine? at the next stage, if00:10:25
it will be in what form, whether Putin will00:10:28
throw the00:10:30
use of tactical nuclear weapons on the table as a last trump card,00:10:32
or whether he will00:10:35
carry out mass mobilization in Russia00:10:37
or not from everyone, the answers to all00:10:40
these questions very much depend on the00:10:43
configuration that will be after the war,00:10:47
thank you very much,00:10:52
we sorted out the00:10:54
current and such a00:10:57
changeable status, let’s then still00:11:00
try to talk about what will happen00:11:03
after and00:11:04
it is clear that we need to discuss00:11:07
economic and political and00:11:10
geopolitical00:11:11
problems, is it00:11:13
even possible here and build00:11:16
some kind of hierarchy of these same challenges for00:11:20
Russia after the war? will be the00:11:26
first priority what Russia will have to00:11:27
face and first of all00:11:30
what will have to be resolved what issues what00:11:33
problems Yuri Lodygin please00:11:36
know it seems to me that we are faced with00:11:39
quite unexpected situations although00:11:42
approximately the same thing happened with00:11:44
Saddam Hussein after the first war for the00:11:47
liberation of Kuwait, I mean that00:11:50
before, countries that suffered00:11:53
that suffered a military defeat of the00:11:56
magnitude that Russia is now suffering00:12:00
because00:12:02
Russia suffered a defeat of00:12:04
unprecedented magnitude in00:12:07
Ukraine and Russia demonstrated the00:12:09
Russian army demonstrated00:12:11
unprecedented incompetence and00:12:14
unprecedented corruption in the 18th 19th century,00:12:18
of course such defeats were not00:12:20
in vain because the enemy was invading the00:12:23
territory the country itself and the country either00:12:26
expanded or it somehow had to00:12:28
survive, palace coups took place00:12:30
and so on and so on,00:12:33
now we are faced with a situation where there is00:12:35
clearly no invasion of00:12:37
Russian territory despite all the incompetence there00:12:40
will be only economic00:12:42
sanctions and we have to see00:12:45
whether economic sanctions are00:12:48
as effective a weapon as military00:12:52
defeat, but because, for example,00:12:54
Hitler and00:12:56
Germany, say, at the end of the Second World00:12:58
War, had no choice but00:13:01
to rebuild because a military defeat was inflicted,00:13:04
we have to see whether00:13:07
economic sanctions are an effective00:13:08
weapon or, on the contrary, they rally the00:13:11
people around regime in bottomless poverty in00:13:16
which the state becomes00:13:18
the only guarantor that issues00:13:20
some kind of money and, accordingly, everyone, like in00:13:22
North Korea or like in Afghanistan,00:13:25
begins to depend on the reigning00:13:28
talips.00:13:29
As for what’s00:13:32
inside Russia, I see approximately00:13:34
three scenarios,00:13:35
one is that absolutely00:13:38
there is no doubt that the people around Putin00:13:40
will now try to eat each other00:13:44
by blaming the opposite side for00:13:47
military defeats, I think that the first to00:13:50
be mowed down around Putin is the oligarch00:13:52
and the Chemezov type00:13:54
who simply nothing will help,00:13:56
especially since these people basically00:13:58
existed, among other things, to ensure that the00:14:00
crowns to feast on the West which, well, it’s00:14:02
generally useless now in modern00:14:05
times, people00:14:06
accordingly FSB augers will try to00:14:08
blame everything on the Minister of Defense Minister00:14:11
Shoigu will try to cook sons and00:14:14
collectors we see that so far apparently he’s00:14:18
doing better because apparently those00:14:20
arrested on the general’s conversation for the00:14:23
missing it takes 5 billion minutes to prepare the anti-Maidan,00:14:28
but the other one is that they will00:14:32
devour each other, this is the most likely00:14:34
option 2, the less likely option seems to me to be the00:14:37
ultimate coup, that is,00:14:39
they will devour not only each other but also00:14:40
Putin, and the00:14:42
third00:14:44
option is also not very likely to me00:14:47
it seems that at some point people00:14:50
will start to take to the streets out of hunger and the00:14:53
elite will again take advantage of this to00:14:55
displace Putin because she is tired of this kind of00:14:57
life for 1 I am ready to vouch for the00:15:00
second third unfortunately no00:15:03
thank you very much love sable please00:15:07
can we now Roughly build00:15:10
this hierarchy, set some priorities,00:15:13
what the00:15:15
main challenges will have to be faced, what problems will have to be00:15:18
solved after the war, first of all, you00:15:21
need to first understand, and after the war in00:15:25
Putin’s Russia or in Russia without Putin,00:15:27
this is a completely different story because00:15:30
if there is Putin, then00:15:32
to discuss the point of some kind of00:15:34
reform or some kind of economic growth, you00:15:37
can definitely forget about this, and now it00:15:39
has become obvious to me, it seems to me, to all the people00:15:41
who previously had illusions that00:15:44
under Putin it would be possible to make some kind of00:15:46
open government or some kind of00:15:48
another story on reforms, if there is no00:15:52
Putin, then of course it is necessary to restore00:15:54
almost all sectors of the economy of the00:15:57
national economy of public life00:16:00
because everything is destroyed, the00:16:02
institution is destroyed, the00:16:05
media is destroyed, non-profit organizations00:16:07
industry, the economy is not a pension00:16:10
reform,00:16:11
everywhere you look there are failures and everything00:16:14
was held together by coercion not00:16:17
on corruption which he would build00:16:19
for himself if Putin had this system, then this system is00:16:23
corrupt for a year,00:16:26
it needs to be changed, in fact, it needs to be changed00:16:29
to a democratic Russia, so I00:16:31
like now the discussions that00:16:33
have already begun publicly with the reflection of people00:16:36
who previously supported Putin about00:16:38
how someone was wrong 90 how00:16:43
to make sure that now00:16:46
Russia is preserved at all, and for this, of00:16:50
course, you need to turn the states00:16:52
to face the people,00:16:53
make the00:16:55
democratic institution sustainable00:16:57
what was not possible to do in the 90s and,00:17:00
accordingly, establish different sectors00:17:04
of life under Putin, this is impossible to do00:17:06
where Putin is so there is always a war either hot00:17:09
or cold, these processes have now been analyzed,00:17:11
well, there00:17:13
will be no changes without Putin, first of all, of course,00:17:16
we need to do so00:17:18
that the state remains in00:17:21
some form, because there is a big00:17:23
question about in what territory, even with what00:17:26
territory, we will preserve ourselves00:17:28
after this war and after Putin, they00:17:31
will begin00:17:35
secession and00:17:37
what happened after the00:17:39
Soviet Union and00:17:42
Afghanistan, what will happen next is a big00:17:45
question, so the state must00:17:46
remain, the state must be00:17:49
Perry-oriented, it is people-oriented, its00:17:52
construction is resistant to the institutions of00:17:53
democracy,00:17:54
which will actually give economic00:17:57
growth and increased welfare,00:18:00
security of law and business people 800:18:05
I will00:18:07
thank you very much, please Matthew, well, in00:18:12
general,00:18:13
what will happen after Putin in my family is00:18:16
more expensive, but I00:18:18
described it in sufficient detail, more or less everyone understands,00:18:20
but how to really00:18:22
get rid of Putin, and let’s let this be a pilot,00:18:25
we assume it doesn’t just00:18:27
mean a dictator drive the00:18:29
system of power, I I see it so that00:18:33
there is within an important factor one00:18:38
political subject then strongly the second is00:18:41
also a political subject one no here 100:18:43
no this is the people because essentially00:18:46
what we talked about and what previous speakers said, we ca00:18:53
n’t count on the people as the driving force of these changes00:18:55
because everything was done to ensure that he was00:18:58
excluded from this system of relations;00:19:00
he does not decide who, in fact, how00:19:05
to move the cells at the top, because00:19:07
this is quite immanent for such systems;00:19:10
yes, this does not exclude the possibility of00:19:13
rebellion below, which00:19:15
is manipulated from above, but I repeat once again,00:19:18
imagine some kind of indignation00:19:20
reaching the scale that will make it possible to00:19:24
make changes, but I don’t see it at all,00:19:27
although I repeat this is a debatable question,00:19:30
as for the other two players, this is00:19:33
the system of power itself, that is, the apparatus00:19:36
of power, the class of power, and in it there is00:19:39
a hierarchy, a certain power00:19:42
part of it is more essential and in00:19:45
which here we see an internal00:19:49
clash, but this is a purely Russian00:19:52
story: when who is to blame, what to do without00:19:54
who is to blame, nothing happens at all, a00:19:57
sense of self-preservation, on the one hand, a00:20:00
cocktail of a sense of self-preservation,00:20:02
but the main thing and at the same time,00:20:06
somehow, is the desire to jump out, in00:20:08
principle, from this hellish circle of such a00:20:11
tape Möbius00:20:12
because repression is inevitable from the00:20:14
side, which00:20:16
means the highest officials, but because it is00:20:19
necessary to somehow justify everything for which00:20:22
such a high price was paid, we do not00:20:24
take this responsibility upon ourselves,00:20:26
therefore, inside the apparatus, this contradiction is inevitable, it is00:20:28
inevitable from 1 kopeck and 300:20:31
actor is very important which influences00:20:33
Tarasco and this is the West, the West00:20:35
is now the source of Russia's position,00:20:38
its political geo-economic00:20:40
any other sanctions and economic00:20:43
war is the source of Russia's problems, the one00:20:46
who manages these problems is00:20:49
one of the decisive factors, moreover, the00:20:52
threat of thermonuclear war, which00:20:54
Putin juggles so easily, led to00:20:57
the switch Tumbler no one00:20:59
is going to negotiate with him anymore,00:21:01
this is a very important thing, so the West00:21:04
probably has allies among those inside the00:21:06
apparatus of 2 Aktar who are ready to00:21:09
do something to get rid of00:21:11
Putin like that,00:21:13
thank you very much Mikhail Khodorkovsky00:21:16
Mihalborisych what do you think are the main00:21:19
challenges and main problems which00:21:22
first of all will have to be solved after00:21:25
the end of the war with your colleagues00:21:28
here we need to share history with00:21:31
or without Putin, if with Putin then we will00:21:34
solve the problem of how to start a new war and00:21:38
how to win this war,00:21:41
what for this let it be done well,00:21:43
in general, enough it is clear that00:21:46
internal life will be clamped down, the00:21:49
army will once again be modernized, the00:21:55
defense complex will once again try to restore itself, there00:21:59
will be borders on all this, a lot of money,00:22:01
and the West will00:22:03
resist in every possible way00:22:04
as much as it can, because here00:22:09
again I agree with my colleagues that the00:22:11
man who once seriously threatened00:22:15
the world with nuclear weapons to carry a war00:22:18
completely for this in no00:22:21
way leading the situation, this person has00:22:25
already ceased to be for the West a treaty00:22:28
capable of the second question this is without Putin but00:22:32
without a lot of on I, in fact, have now00:22:35
written a whole book on this topic on how to00:22:37
kill a dragon00:22:39
so first of all this is of course without00:22:43
any doubts regarding the settlement of issues00:22:45
externally by the external perimeter without this00:22:47
nothing will happen00:22:48
secondly, as a consequence of the settlement with the00:22:51
external perimeter this is the lifting of sanctions and00:22:54
then everything else in turn00:22:56
decentralization education00:22:59
federalization being fixed00:23:03
more precisely deputy notation and the like the00:23:07
transition from one 2 from one to the second00:23:12
that is, from Russia with Putin to Russia without00:23:15
Putin, apparently there will be no blood, but00:23:18
how much blood there will be00:23:20
depends on, among other00:23:22
things, Putin’s entourage,00:23:24
because the smallest blood is this00:23:26
snuffbox,00:23:27
but further on, anything is possible,00:23:31
I also don’t believe in the uprising of the people because00:23:36
that the unarmed people of modern00:23:39
history,00:23:40
you can’t resist an00:23:43
armed defender of the regime for money,00:23:47
but this does not mean that among these00:23:50
armed defenders everyone really wants to00:23:54
share the fate of Putin in the medium00:23:56
term,00:23:57
thank you very much, I’ll00:24:01
ask a question, I was amazed, just00:24:05
please clarify and to whom you ask00:24:07
a question, of course I think that I would like to00:24:10
ask a question to Mihalborisych, it could00:24:12
be a brand too, so I would like to00:24:14
clarify from their point of view, especially00:24:16
Mikhail fan, what the position of the00:24:18
West looks like because I completely agree00:24:21
that the West has realized that Putin is not capable of goods00:24:24
he wants to isolate him and00:24:26
what exactly will he do so that00:24:30
Putin does not harm anyone except00:24:32
Russia itself and naturally also Ukraine,00:24:36
but I don’t see whether or not the West has00:24:39
a desire to completely put an end to Putin;00:24:41
they undoubtedly have the opportunity to00:24:43
do this even with the help of sanctions if00:24:46
arrange a complete economic blockade of00:24:49
Russia if you stop buying oil and00:24:51
gas, then I really think the regime00:24:54
will go, but I remember the story of00:24:56
Saddam Hussein who, when he invaded00:25:01
Kuwait, he was neutralized and Kuwait00:25:05
was returned to its place, but if you remember00:25:07
after the first Iraq war, the United States did not00:25:10
continue to invade Iraq and they decided00:25:12
that like Saddam Hussein himself would fall because of00:25:15
economic sanctions, which did not happen,00:25:18
accordingly, I have a question for Mikhail00:25:20
Boris, he’s sorry that I’ve been formulating this for so long,00:25:23
it seems to me that it’s00:25:25
very important to formulate here exactly what00:25:27
exactly I’m asking for00:25:29
recognition of a non-treaty ability Putin by the00:25:32
West means that the West will neutralize00:25:36
Putin or that the West will do everything00:25:39
to overthrow him00:25:43
if you are asking whether a ground operation will be carried out00:25:47
in Russia of course not00:25:50
if you are asking whether the West will set00:25:52
itself the task of killing Putin is possible00:25:55
but we don’t need to talk about it00:25:57
if you are asking It will take years for the00:26:00
sanctions to be completed, even if they00:26:03
are very difficult for the West,00:26:07
there are different points of view about this, but00:26:11
as it looks today, it is00:26:14
most likely that the sanctions will be maintained00:26:18
almost in full,00:26:20
regardless of the end of the laziness of the end of the00:26:24
hot phase of the war, which will not happen with Putin they will00:26:28
negotiate, they will00:26:30
agree, of course they will00:26:32
agree, but00:26:33
at no point00:26:36
will00:26:39
the task of00:26:41
depriving Putin of freedom of maneuver be removed from the agenda; everything that00:26:45
can be done to deprive00:26:47
freedom of maneuver of everything; get rid of it from a00:26:49
technological point of view from a00:26:51
geopolitical point of view, including I00:26:55
think that00:26:57
everything the separatist movements that00:27:00
now exist in Russia they take into account the00:27:03
opportunity to develop00:27:09
my question seems to be attention to yourself, can this be the00:27:14
3rd problem I have a proposal Yulia00:27:17
Ladynina also had such a question and of00:27:18
course maybe not Mihalborisych and it00:27:21
needs to be answered by someone else but00:27:24
let’s maybe now I myself was00:27:26
driven anyway, let's discuss the question, it00:27:29
seemed to me that he was narmul, so there will be00:27:31
increased sanction pressure right up to the00:27:33
Borg on oil and gas and even no love00:27:37
vandross was formulated very00:27:40
clearly and but it seems to me that Mihalborisych is00:27:42
right in the first part of the answer he said00:27:45
it would rather be imposed that I am very clear in00:27:49
my opinion and from the accounting it is clear to them not, but if00:27:51
you ask about sanctions pressure,00:27:55
including the embargo on oil and gas, which00:27:59
they will gradually introduce, according to my00:28:01
estimates, within two years, they will do00:28:05
so with supplying oil and gas for00:28:09
export, we will have a constant00:28:11
discount of around 20-30 percent of the price,00:28:15
this is the maximum that realistically speaking on the00:28:18
global market they can,00:28:19
well, this is no longer nonsense, he00:28:22
called it absolutely not lethal, that00:28:25
is, a couple about about the lethal sti regime and00:28:29
by the way, a question then to Yulia Latynina you and00:28:32
what do you read that the00:28:39
non-existence of Vladimir Putin is fatal for the regime, let00:28:41
’s not have a routine and the whole regime will immediately fall apart,00:28:44
no, being a realist, I don’t00:28:47
consider the question of whether Martians will fly by there00:28:50
or someone will be blown up, or so00:28:53
on, or the snuffbox isn’t even I00:28:55
’m considering the snuffbox, in any case,00:28:57
it’s clear that if the snuffbox throws this and00:28:59
it’s not the West that throws, I meant00:29:03
what Western sanctions will be aimed at00:29:05
isolating the regime or destroying it, and00:29:09
also being a realist and a pessimist, I00:29:12
agree with Boris Mikhailov than that these00:29:14
sanctions will be aimed rather, for00:29:16
isolation and for neutralizing the regime,00:29:19
so if someone in Russia really00:29:23
misses foreign yachts, then00:29:25
he will have to throw a snuffbox at00:29:29
me himself, a question for the brand of figs, well, you00:29:33
talked about actors who can00:29:36
influence the00:29:39
end of this regime and I have a question for00:29:43
everyone - anyway, we are talking about00:29:45
the war and its consequences, the00:29:48
result of the war that we will see00:29:53
is what the Kremlin wants to pass off as00:29:56
reality or what will actually happen,00:29:58
how important is this in the behavior of the00:30:02
actors, well,00:30:05
let him be a fan of selling something even00:30:08
if Tomorrow Donetsk and Lugansk will be occupied by a00:30:10
force of 100. It would still be necessary to00:30:13
sell some picture because00:30:16
expectations are very high,00:30:18
it’s not that the population is00:30:21
indignantly unable to get what they00:30:23
wanted, it means moving on the Kremlin and00:30:26
getting their way, that’s not what we’re talking about the fact00:30:30
that, strictly speaking, it will be very difficult00:30:33
in the future to manage the huge masses of this00:30:36
decline, I am there for a new war, this is00:30:39
really fair, absolutely without00:30:41
achieving a result, we need to somehow00:30:43
compensate for all this, we need to somehow00:30:45
replace it, which means we need some kind of new00:30:47
war, another thing is that So I would say00:30:49
that he is much more Western than I really agree with the young people00:30:52
to destroy the00:30:54
regime of means, but I’m not sure that he00:30:57
will not use them. You understand what a00:30:59
problem Russia is a huge country, it’s not00:31:02
difficult to compare with00:31:05
cancer from the same time Saddam Hussein, the00:31:09
thing is that there are a huge number00:31:12
of problems, if now the West invests00:31:14
seriously in putting00:31:16
pressure on creating these00:31:19
problems, it doesn’t matter if suddenly, for no reason at all,00:31:21
Georgia wants to reconsider the issue of00:31:23
Abkhazia and South Ossetia,00:31:25
which means that some movements will begin in00:31:29
Transnistria and so on, which, in00:31:31
principle, may have some success both00:31:34
in the Ukrainian theater and in action00:31:37
since00:31:38
Russia's heads, all significant00:31:40
military resources are directed there, Russia00:31:44
now essentially has no military00:31:46
potential to00:31:49
resolve any issues, that is, in principle, it00:31:51
is known that fighting on two fronts does not00:31:52
mind these fronts ghoul 34 The West,00:31:56
repeat, has these levers because the00:31:59
issue of sanctions is already a thing, and the last00:32:01
thing I wanted to say is00:32:03
how the West has abdicated itself, as it were, of00:32:07
responsibility, shifted it onto those whom00:32:09
it brings under sanctions, get rid of them from00:32:12
Putin earlier, because they talked for a long time,00:32:16
you know how Friedman came yourself the00:32:18
Atlantic Council told us, but what can we00:32:20
do on the published commissions00:32:23
were slowly shown so on and I00:32:25
no one thinks about it anymore, they don’t00:32:27
just hand out how to cook these sanctions,00:32:30
moves on to the next stage, possible by00:32:33
some kind of separate act of confiscation, is00:32:36
this freezing to the extent when it00:32:38
is reset asset and these are new,00:32:41
you don’t understand what that is, and of course this00:32:43
is being done, in my opinion, exceptional00:32:46
only so that these people themselves00:32:48
think about how to solve this problem, well, not00:32:51
specifically with this, but on a broader00:32:52
scale, and I think that it is important critical00:32:57
critical mass perhaps it or not00:33:00
the apparatus of power, he doesn’t like to00:33:03
live like this, he also doesn’t want to, he wants to return00:33:06
everything to the same way and this is an important00:33:07
incentive, cadet00:33:10
love, I still have a subordinating question for you,00:33:13
and then I think we’ll move on to the00:33:15
questions that our viewers sent00:33:17
you are talking about the fact that it will be necessary to00:33:23
build new institutions,00:33:25
restore everything, and who will do this;00:33:28
Vladimir Putin’s regime is built not00:33:31
only on Vladimir Putin; there is a huge00:33:32
number of people who00:33:36
have worked in a certain way in the system for 22 years00:33:41
and they don’t know how to do anything else,00:33:44
how to be here,00:33:46
well, first of all I’m not sure that in the middle00:33:49
they know how to do anything differently, there are clearly security forces00:33:52
who only know how to beat with batons,00:33:56
put them under arrest and torture in prison with00:34:00
mops, and the security forces are unlikely to be these00:34:03
security forces who are now working under00:34:04
Putin, they can rebuild to00:34:07
reform the security forces good00:34:10
must of course be demolished everything and build00:34:12
literally from scratch the police00:34:17
prosecutor's office and so on, all these bodies00:34:19
now they cannot function with the00:34:22
same people according to the new rules,00:34:23
these people simply00:34:25
psychologically will not even be able to00:34:26
adapt to the normal operating mode of00:34:29
any democratic country as00:34:31
for the economic bloc and even00:34:34
Putin’s other departments, and I think that00:34:39
these people00:34:41
will be able to reorganize the second, of course,00:34:44
that is, this very formulation of the question00:34:46
seems to me to be initially a little00:34:50
wrong, this is in the category of if not00:34:52
let, but who we have is only Putin and no00:34:54
one else has this I I don’t want to00:34:58
upset you, love for a huge00:35:00
number of people, for example, considers00:35:02
corruption acceptable, everyday00:35:04
corruption for them is this part of life and you00:35:07
know that the index of00:35:09
acceptance and tolerance of corruption in Russia is00:35:12
simply monstrous and you just need to soberly00:35:15
assess what to deal with00:35:19
did deal with the next should00:35:21
be united summer cat work is00:35:23
geared towards reforms and a00:35:25
democratic institution, and this00:35:27
united elite will carry out the transformation00:35:30
quickly enough, it is clear that in any00:35:33
society there is a certain percentage of people00:35:35
who are always about to break the law on the00:35:37
margins, and there and so on there are people00:35:40
who will behave according to the rules and if00:35:42
you need to give a bribe, but at the same time00:35:45
I won’t even get the right, an Asian woman00:35:48
will try 50 and 52 times there to get these00:35:50
licenses to drive a car, and00:35:53
most people it will come to life according to the00:35:56
rules that are accepted in society and00:35:58
which are convenient, so that’s the task or are you00:36:01
this is to make the right rules, such00:36:03
that will be convenient and understandable to everyone,00:36:05
when it will be easier not to violate than to00:36:08
violate, and when such a model of society,00:36:11
behavior in society will be correct,00:36:13
therefore, the correct thought is from above, the00:36:16
correct imposition of institutions,00:36:20
to do everything according to the mind, and then people00:36:22
will be accustomed to rebuilding and it will be easier for them00:36:25
to live in a normal country than to wear00:36:28
some kind of bribe and there are examples of that,00:36:31
examples of the country which it turned out to be00:36:33
done which quickly passed and sand00:36:35
bangs to whether there is a Kruse form that00:36:37
were carried out and there is an electronic00:36:40
government in Estonia with Tony as an00:36:42
excellent example of00:36:43
the country that turned out I you00:36:47
Soviet warming up and making sure that00:36:49
the state works effectively in the00:36:52
interests of citizens, so there are a large00:36:55
number of Russians who now some00:36:58
have remained in Russia, some have left for a long time, some have00:37:00
recently left, who have the00:37:02
reluctance and brains, qualifications and experience00:37:05
to restore Russia and I00:37:08
to make the necessary reforms in the00:37:11
information sphere in the social sphere,00:37:14
medical education and so on, so00:37:16
we just need to give him this opportunity00:37:18
because under Putin and this time the verse for00:37:20
selection is impossible for a single00:37:23
sane person with his00:37:25
moral principles to remain in this system,00:37:28
so we need to burn out the system from above and00:37:31
then, in fact, people said that apparently the00:37:35
new line will correct itself, okay,00:37:38
yes, it squeaked who will00:37:40
restore people, there are people, there are00:37:43
enemies, they are not allowed into this decision-making system,00:37:45
okay, thank you very much, a question from00:37:49
our listener, and I will probably ask00:37:51
Mikhail Khodorkovsky to answer this00:37:54
question as long as he can to exist00:37:56
through Russia in the regime of the DPRK, that is,00:37:59
strict sanctions, a completely closed00:38:01
country, this is one of the scenarios00:38:07
until death, the path for us can be because00:38:12
today Putin, in general, has built a00:38:16
system around himself00:38:19
where people understand that00:38:22
after Putin, those closest to him are00:38:25
good will not live and00:38:30
either Putin Katya is dying or open00:38:37
this system will support itself00:38:39
with the forces of those several tens of thousands of00:38:44
people00:38:46
who are ready to shoot in the street there is00:38:49
of course an alternative option when the00:38:52
army opposes and accordingly00:38:56
it demolishes the regime but in Russia the army is not00:39:00
particularly a subject to and There aren’t many such examples in our00:39:04
history to say00:39:08
so00:39:11
until Putin’s death there will be death in00:39:15
this case to quite simply00:39:19
his failure to work00:39:23
would be 15 years away, it may very well be in Conder mode00:39:30
not the most comforting forecast00:39:33
[applause]00:39:34
of course please Yuri okay I’m of course00:39:37
I don’t want to be a pessimist because I’ll00:39:40
say right away that in this period of very00:39:42
strong political uncertainty, it00:39:44
seems to me that we are underestimating one00:39:47
sad factor, which is called00:39:51
precisely the degree of indecision in the West, and00:39:53
I really don’t like saying these words00:39:57
because Putin really likes to talk about the00:39:58
decay of the West. these all these00:40:01
wrong values and so on, and I00:40:04
want to draw attention to the fact that the passivity of00:40:06
the West is a continuation of its00:40:08
advantages and its shortcomings, people don’t00:40:11
want to fight because they are rich and00:40:14
people don’t want to fight because they have a00:40:17
democratic state and people are00:40:22
starting socialist policies.00:40:24
the agenda begins00:40:25
to dominate in the West precisely because00:40:28
it is very rich and, of course, politicians00:40:30
who say that let’s00:40:31
divide everything up, they have a much better chance,00:40:35
they have something to share, but all these00:40:38
advantages of the West turned into00:40:41
disadvantages in terms of fighting00:40:44
hooligans, and it turned out that in a world where the00:40:47
strong do not fight, the arrogant ones fight wars00:40:50
and Putin took advantage of this and we see00:40:54
to a certain extent such a revival of00:40:57
dictatorial regimes00:40:59
and Putin is only the first sign;00:41:01
moreover, not just dictatorial00:41:04
regimes of absolutely ineffective regimes steeped in00:41:06
corruption, regimes that, let’s say,00:41:09
were characteristic of the day to be in Asia of the00:41:11
seventeenth eighteenth century, but00:41:13
which at one time fell under the pressure00:41:15
of the West because they could not withstand competition with it,00:41:17
and now we see that00:41:20
rogue countries are starting in their own sphere, until00:41:23
no one touches them, they continue to00:41:27
exist and continue to bury00:41:30
themselves and theirs in [ __ ]00:41:33
people who live in them creating such a00:41:36
new00:41:37
year 1984 is no longer global like an eagle00:41:40
when the whole world is divided between three00:41:42
superpowers which are all totalitarian00:41:44
and we00:41:46
have a revival of attacked00:41:48
totalitarianism on small pieces of earth00:41:52
isolated from the main trend of world00:41:55
politics which strives for prosperity00:41:57
and00:41:59
because the West I don’t want00:42:01
to do anything with this and, as I already said, you00:42:04
can understand it perfectly, I actually right now00:42:05
why would he wash our hands, such00:42:09
regimes00:42:10
are in the DPRK, somewhere in Sudan, and00:42:14
some kind of Hamas, Venezuela,00:42:18
Bolivia, Russia, maybe very,00:42:21
very stable because I’m not fat and00:42:24
I apologize, but still, Russia is a00:42:28
gigantic country, yes, it’s true, it’s00:42:31
not the DPRK on the outskirts of civilization, it’s a country00:42:36
that has some of its parts00:42:39
in Europe and this is a country that is connected by the00:42:43
West, including oil and gas00:42:46
all sorts of things I'm now trying tomorrow00:42:49
the size matters now00:42:52
the size of the economy matters I'm afraid that00:42:56
Putin, on the contrary, can only be the first00:42:58
sign because he is the stupidest00:43:01
because he is the most unprofessional00:43:03
the most corrupt I saw00:43:06
yesterday a caricature that I was very00:43:08
impressed with, it was a Chinese caricature00:43:10
one pig was being slaughtered on it and the other00:43:12
pig was looking at the pig that was being slaughtered00:43:15
was called Ukraine was signed in00:43:17
hieroglyphs the snake that was looking at was00:43:19
signed Taiwan, now if the same thing00:43:23
that Putin starts doing Xi Jinping and the00:43:26
world again comes to you the idea that the world can be fought00:43:31
over by force, then I’ll just go into00:43:33
Ukraine will be forgotten as a small prelude to the00:43:36
third world war00:43:38
Mihalborisych you wanted to add something00:43:42
I agree with what Yulia says that of00:43:46
course in the current situation it is impossible to fight in00:43:51
order to remove Putin in order to00:43:53
defeat Russia sanctions I am00:43:57
extremely skeptical about maintaining00:44:01
even the current level of sanctions a little00:44:04
lower they will be able to maintain the current00:44:06
level for a long time they will not be able to maintain it00:44:08
because you will have other00:44:12
supply chains for goods,00:44:16
respectively, the only thing they00:44:20
can influence is, strictly speaking, for the00:44:22
duration of the existence of Putin himself,00:44:25
I think that we will now00:44:28
face00:44:29
another question from our viewer and I’ll00:44:32
probably address it to any sable, you as a00:44:37
politician communicated a lot with a lot of00:44:40
different people, not those who00:44:42
support you and those who don’t00:44:45
support you, and you can just about00:44:47
imagine I think a cross-section of society, this is00:44:51
what our viewers write, Germany00:44:56
changed its policy only after00:44:58
the destruction of Berlin and the provisional00:45:00
government and allies of Japan after00:45:03
Hiroshima and Nagasaki how to bring the00:45:05
hibernating people to reason without such terrible methods00:45:15
love please this is a complex question this is a00:45:18
complex one I understand here operations from ezio00:45:21
40 million different very, very times00:45:24
people well,00:45:26
probably if it were a simple question00:45:29
then it would they have already found the answer and the path to it a long time ago00:45:32
and followed it if it were00:45:35
all that simple, probably yes, someone00:45:37
will get it only through some strong00:45:39
shocks that will personally affect his00:45:42
personal family, someone thinks about it earlier,00:45:45
someone in general it won’t be understood even00:45:47
when it booms, so it’s00:45:51
hard to tell00:45:53
the shadow, it’s definitely the answer to this question00:45:56
is decided by those who need to think about it or don’t00:45:59
think about it, yes, that is, I communicated00:46:02
in 2021, I probably haven’t had a00:46:06
single day when I didn’t communicate00:46:08
with the security forces or I was taken for interrogation to the00:46:12
investigative committee, either everyone00:46:14
takes an explanation from me and either a search00:46:16
or a trial or something, and among them I’m00:46:19
huge at first, it’s not just a few, it’s00:46:22
really the overwhelming number of00:46:24
security officials that I’ve encountered during this time,00:46:25
they understand everything and many00:46:29
of them directly support right here00:46:31
they say it right here, it comes along with that,00:46:33
don’t lean on your ear and says love00:46:36
and you’re doing it right, it’s00:46:38
driving and with me in the car there’s a Federal Penitentiary Service employee and00:46:41
says love, I’ve got two years of pensions00:46:43
and after that I’ll go out with you,00:46:45
I understand that they they won’t come out00:46:46
with me and that they will also00:46:50
just be in the kitchen and we’ll scold him at00:46:52
his boss who holds them for00:46:54
cattle just like Putin holds the cattle of00:46:57
all other Russians and that how00:47:00
can one expect from them from a person just00:47:02
another people of some kind of system00:47:04
active actions that they will go out to00:47:05
protest on the street that he will begin00:47:08
to support Navalny and so on, but the00:47:10
fact that they are dissatisfied with the state of00:47:13
affairs now is clear now they blame it on00:47:15
them through propaganda, it’s easier to blame00:47:18
someone else for it later when00:47:20
now, but they are00:47:22
even more powerful a stronger decline00:47:26
in the economy00:47:27
will begin to blame their bosses on us,00:47:30
first they will begin to blame Putin,00:47:32
but this is the whole00:47:37
system, that is, the flywheel has already been launched,00:47:40
people are becoming poorer people are trying00:47:43
to find00:47:45
now, out of anger, they are starting to blame the West for00:47:49
this on everyone else, the opposition is the fifth00:47:51
column, this is easy do but00:47:54
ultimately I00:47:57
think that sobering up will not come thank you00:48:00
very much mihalborisych you wanted to add00:48:01
something was looking for true announced that00:48:04
rosedale default yes strong with reference to00:48:09
standard and purse Russia tried to00:48:12
pay in rubles for 200:48:15
dollar-denominated bonds maturing on00:48:18
April 4 This is a message from Standard & Poor's00:48:20
that is published and00:48:23
says that this is tantamount to a selective00:48:26
default since investors are unlikely to be00:48:28
able to convert rubles into dollars00:48:31
equivalent to the00:48:33
amounts originally owed. These are the messages00:48:36
that now have to be linked to cnn.00:48:40
How important is it in general now00:48:43
to understand these public00:48:45
sentiments and the fact that00:48:49
those people whom our viewer called in the00:48:52
future the people and Nyan, I would probably00:48:55
clarify with Mark Feigin which00:48:58
I called the citizens of Russia not at all an important00:49:01
factor,00:49:02
I was a friend of the rocks, they are simply practically00:49:05
not subjective, that is, in essence, they00:49:09
can show this subjectivity if with00:49:11
the sign on the contrary when they feel the bitterness00:49:15
that this defeat came at such a00:49:18
cost,00:49:19
these are the dead, this is a00:49:22
collapsing economy, this is their social00:49:25
status in we like to forget that after all,00:49:27
Russia was a consumer world, she00:49:28
lived like this for a quarter of a century, but I’m walking under00:49:32
Putin a little less, that is, it00:49:35
will be very difficult for her change your consciousness that00:49:37
these people, we do not fall out of this whole00:49:41
consumer world, and00:49:43
Russia is quite primitive, it is very00:49:45
primitive and will they forgive this in00:49:48
principle because we cannot judge00:49:51
how much this discontent is converted00:49:53
into a political demand,00:49:55
she never envelopes, we will00:49:57
never do this what we are talking about the00:50:00
discontent that we saw before, it00:50:03
never turned into the consideration00:50:06
that it is necessary to get rid of this power and00:50:07
Putin, can war be the sharpest00:50:10
trainer, what could be more powerful than war,00:50:14
turn this state into a new one,00:50:18
convert it into a political00:50:21
demand addressed to authorities, therefore, I remember00:50:23
a lot of skepticism, a lot of skepticism00:50:25
because but I don’t know about you, I’m watching a00:50:29
focus group almost under we see in the00:50:31
video what is posted, how00:50:35
the population reacts to the operation, all these wild ones and so00:50:37
on, but this does not inspire much hope,00:50:40
another thing is that in there is salvation in this, I’ll00:50:43
tell you what if Putin is eliminated,00:50:45
none of them will come out00:50:48
here, as Bunin wrote in the damned days00:50:50
when you know where all the Black Hundreds went, the00:50:53
noble assemblies, and even when in February I00:50:55
don’t put my emperor, so and here00:50:58
you understand this and the salvation of the fact00:51:00
that there is a chance for those who will be able to generally00:51:04
change the situation at the top until00:51:07
nothing is followed in00:51:11
relation to them from the streets, the street00:51:14
will be silent and therefore, in my00:51:17
opinion, it is better to talk realistically about what is00:51:19
really in that situation that00:51:21
Putin himself is the source of these problems, I00:51:24
mean in relation to my wife and00:51:26
we, if some civil society00:51:30
dragging his business can take advantage of00:51:31
this situation, it would be a blessing if00:51:34
we could, either through the west through00:51:36
the applicant or something, somehow00:51:38
speed up this process they are I’m00:51:40
very nervous, you know, very strong00:51:43
hands, any event, an hour of default,00:51:46
they said it, but in fact it’s a default, and it also00:51:48
instills such nervousness, working with us to00:51:51
pay pensions, an ordinary man in the street will think,00:51:53
think the Minister of Siluans,00:51:57
will they remove him and see what’s next with him,00:52:01
know this or maybe this will be a00:52:03
good option for him 2 it might be more expensive for him00:52:07
and we even want a ceremony thank you very much00:52:09
mom wasn’t armor add a00:52:11
couple of words and let’s have00:52:15
final remarks after this please00:52:17
then I’ll try to be very brief00:52:19
first of all I of course wholeheartedly agree with00:52:21
Mark that the current people are not at all the00:52:23
subject of politics and the00:52:26
simplest are people who don’t know what00:52:29
they will believe in tomorrow, dressed, will hear00:52:31
tomorrow on TV and the simplest00:52:33
example is that none of them are standing in00:52:36
line at recruiting stations to go to00:52:38
Ukraine and fight there like against the00:52:40
Ukrainian Nazis, but I would00:52:43
like to point out that impoverishment in the00:52:46
modern world where the majority of the people in00:52:50
one way or another depends on the state is00:52:52
precisely not a guarantee00:52:55
of revolution. Somewhere in the middle of the 17th00:52:58
century, taxes were raised in half of the European countries00:53:01
due to they are a harvest and in00:53:03
half of the countries in Europe, well, in a good00:53:05
half there were revolutions because00:53:08
then the people were those people who00:53:10
earn money with their hump, pay00:53:13
taxes and I like it when they00:53:15
rise in the modern world where00:53:18
society is very much on the rise of Ravana,00:53:21
especially in a country like Russia, there is00:53:23
impoverishment does not lead to such a reaction to00:53:30
rebellion; on the contrary, it leads to the fact that00:53:32
impoverished people begin to depend on the00:53:34
supply of the state and look it in the mouth, and00:53:38
I would then ask you to make some00:53:42
final remarks so that the main thing is that00:53:45
you want to take00:53:48
at least a minute out of our conversation today please,00:53:51
and Leonidovna, do you think that I have my00:53:54
final remark? It’s a holiday, well,00:53:56
thank you, much love, please,00:53:59
we discussed a little about the people and about,00:54:03
or you and about, and probably we talked more00:54:05
not about the future Russia, but about what is00:54:09
happening now,00:54:10
if briefly, the most important thing is00:54:12
to tell everything that default, which we00:54:14
just discussed at the end of the broadcast, is a very00:54:16
powerful word, in fact, even for me, I am a00:54:19
person who, in the 90s, had one00:54:21
kindergarten and school, the words from default, it causes00:54:24
such a nervous tremor, I think that people00:54:27
who were older, they are already00:54:29
others perceive it even more strongly00:54:32
and need to understand that all of Putin’s00:54:35
policies of recent years were built on00:54:37
these theses and stability that no matter how much00:54:39
worse it was, and00:54:41
now it won’t happen anymore and now there is00:54:45
no stability,00:54:47
I can’t talk about stability, it will00:54:50
definitely be worse people now it will00:54:53
feel it and00:54:55
this will be a chance for change any crisis00:54:58
is a search for opportunities these are new00:55:00
opportunities I would like you and I to00:55:02
perceive it this way thank you00:55:05
very much thank you very much please00:55:08
mortiger yes I will briefly say you will find out00:55:11
when we are thinking we are discussing this we00:55:14
understand for this in order to at least somehow00:55:16
influence at least somehow change the situation, you00:55:17
need to beat off the meat right to the very point00:55:20
what it all depends on, if there00:55:25
had been no war, Putin could exist in00:55:26
this regime00:55:28
to drift further until 2-4 years when00:55:31
formal elections should be no00:55:33
choice in Russia, not a long time ago, all00:55:34
quarter of a century, but he could have, he himself00:55:38
went to this aggravation, there is also00:55:40
some kind of peculiarity in this, perhaps he is00:55:42
going through some kind of phase, bathing in a bath00:55:44
with blood, stewing there, God knows,00:55:47
but in any case This situation itself00:55:50
has positioned00:55:52
society in general to00:55:54
react; another thing is that it has little00:55:57
opportunity before this reaction, the war00:55:59
will still return in some form and will not00:56:01
enter the territory directly, but00:56:03
one way or another we see the flashes of this00:56:06
war on the territory of Russia, it doesn’t matter00:56:07
these looters with cars will return,00:56:09
rapists and so on, I assure you that00:56:12
this will be an additional factor against the00:56:14
backdrop of what is happening, causing00:56:17
frenzy, so to speak, and ultimately00:56:19
tension to such an extent that00:56:22
the authorities may begin to waver; this is where we00:56:25
actually choose the most00:56:27
painful place and go there press I00:56:30
think that the war will remain these00:56:32
thank you very much and please Mikhail00:56:35
Khodorkovsky00:56:37
well, the boards points for optimism00:56:39
after all, it will end Russian history00:56:42
shows that after a lost war,00:56:44
approximately two years later, the regime00:56:47
has huge problems, only the last00:56:51
2 centuries indicate this for what00:56:53
reason will these problems arise, will it actually be something else, will00:56:58
it be something else each time, these problems00:57:02
will be different and here the main question is where to00:57:05
go from here people00:57:07
this history is long this is a question of00:57:10
education especially since during00:57:12
our reign we have done everything00:57:14
possible for this so that at00:57:18
least to read as many people as he could,00:57:22
well, some of them couldn’t, well, they00:57:25
say he tried very hard, the00:57:29
way out of this, apparently, will be00:57:31
through a multi-structured economy and00:57:34
another multi-structured politics and00:57:36
through education, but what should we be00:57:40
happy about00:57:43
now? for no one or you are not for00:57:47
the authoritarian or you are not for the00:57:49
democratic or this is not for the00:57:51
national not for the unitary there is no00:57:54
alternative to00:57:55
building relationships from the West, the00:57:58
West00:58:01
in this process, let me remind you, now00:58:05
it is happening, it is beginning to unite and00:58:09
this,00:58:12
as always, is for us some additional guarantee00:58:15
the fact that we won’t have to wander through the desert for 40 years00:58:21
thank you very much I say to all the00:58:25
guests of our round table00:58:28
our small conference love sable00:58:31
Yulia Latynina mart-e genes and Mikhail00:58:33
Khodorkovsky kefir for you villa Tatyana00:58:35
Felgenhauer many thanks to everyone who00:58:38
was with us todayDescription:
Юлия Латынина, Михаил Ходорковский, Марк Фейгин и Любовь Соболь обсуждают будущее России. Будет ли в России революция, верхушечный переворот, или все ограничится борьбой за власть, когда один клан раздербанит другой клан, свалив на него ответственность за проигранную войну? Приведут ли санкции к укреплению режима или, наоборот, сплотят биомассу вокруг Путина? Сожрут ли околопутинских олигархов типа Ротенберга или Чемезова? Запад признал Путина недоговороспособным - это точно. Но что Запад хочет добиться с помощью санкций - изолировать Путина, так, чтобы он не мог причинить вреда никому, кроме собственных подданных, или свергнуть его? Когда в России, как в Украине, вместо народонаселения появится народ? Канал Соболь https://www.youtube.com/c/%D0%9B%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F Если вам нравится, что мы делаем, и у вас есть возможность - пожалуйста, поддержите нас через PayPal. Нам очень нужна ваша помощь. https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/latynina через ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/latynina1 Это должен быть Patreon https://www.patreon.com/join/3340678/checkout Кроме этого, пожертвовать на развитие этого канала можно, зайдя на его главную страницу и нажав на кнопочку с синей головкой, расположенной справа вверху рядом с плашкой YL-сайт. Пожертвовать на развитие этого канала с карточки можно, зайдя на сайт https://latynina.tv/, и там вверху слева висит крупная кнопка донейт. Нам можно также пожертвовать деньги переводом на счет нашей организации LATYNINAORG MTÜ IBAN EE421010220274614225 SWIFT EEUHEE2X Bitcoin Address - bc1qltgykx93plrpp32ygktl4srzz4z5sa467ppafq bitcoincash:qq2uhptcx7qqxvtpgqs2spca6urgwuckxsc79vd39j Algo LXHCP5VLSULJTYNK3QXBXYA3YQ5RT7G3UKGKY4IDFAYGIKTDIO3SONPNNM Наш сайт https://www.latynina.tv/ Данным каналом занимаются: содержание Юлия Латынина, техническая поддержка Дарья Воронцова. Автор фото на канале - Дарья Воронцова. инстаграмм Юли https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser инстаграмм Даши https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser
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