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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:02
not the Russian people from Dugin to Kudrin00:00:05
these are criminals Kudrin is a criminal00:00:08
How Russians should behave, the people00:00:11
want to live a normal life, the society is00:00:14
of course deeply painful. The longer00:00:16
Putin stays, the worse it will be in Russia, what is00:00:18
being done is monstrous00:00:19
[music]00:00:26
good afternoon Hello, I welcome00:00:28
our audience to the audience of the program00:00:30
roadmap I remind you of two experts00:00:33
Vladimir Pastukhov and Mikhail Khodorkovsky00:00:36
My name is Vitaly Dymarsky and we00:00:38
weekly look at the events00:00:41
that are happening around us and try to draw00:00:43
some conclusions for the future from them00:00:46
today we will draw conclusions on00:00:49
Apparently a very distant future because00:00:53
we will be talking about how with what burden00:00:56
of responsibility, guilt or something else00:00:59
Russia will come out of the situation00:01:03
that has driven itself into the situation the00:01:06
reason for today's conversation was the00:01:10
theses of the former00:01:13
Estonian President Ilves, he00:01:17
published now many are discussing this00:01:19
14 theses about in fact, how00:01:23
should Russians behave when all of00:01:26
Russia, in order to atone for the guilt, the00:01:31
responsibility that Russia00:01:34
bears for this war, for this00:01:39
special military operation, I will not00:01:42
now list all these 14 theses,00:01:45
anyone who is interested can find them quite easily,00:01:48
since all Facebook is00:01:51
already discussing, but then my first00:01:54
question is the simplest, like a warm-up00:01:56
question for both of our experts,00:02:00
Vladimirovich Let’s start with you, do you00:02:03
feel your own guilt or00:02:07
responsibility for what is happening00:02:10
in Ukraine, I feel, first of all, shame00:02:13
for the country00:02:16
that I have lived for many years I’m00:02:21
part of the culture that I’m part of because of00:02:24
what it creates, I00:02:28
probably partly feel00:02:30
responsible for what’s happening00:02:33
because somewhere we didn’t get it all right00:02:37
We came to a life like this sometime somewhere00:02:41
20-30 years ago, maybe we00:02:46
crushed some kind of butterfly00:02:49
and something went wrong,00:02:52
I don’t feel guilty about my personal00:02:55
personal battle, I didn’t participate in this,00:02:57
and for many years I tried to00:03:01
warn that this was possible and did00:03:03
everything to prevent it from happening, it happened00:03:09
for the wrong reasons, that’s why I don’t have this00:03:14
complex.00:03:15
What, forgive me, what I speak Russian No,00:03:19
I spoke and will speak Russian, I00:03:21
will think in Russian, consider myself00:03:24
Russian, this does not relieve me, not in part,00:03:29
of responsibility for what is happening, I00:03:31
feel deep shame for it. Thank you, I00:03:37
will ask you another additional question, the00:03:40
same plus more I’ll add one detail00:03:44
related to your book, by the way,00:03:46
here’s a recently published one Where you00:03:49
draw such a00:03:51
beautiful Russia of the future in the form in00:03:54
which you see it, but now, by the way, what the00:03:58
former00:04:02
Estonian president writes about is supported by00:04:05
very many people in the world now,00:04:06
especially In Eastern Europe, so this is00:04:10
one of the trends there, one of one of the00:04:13
views. If you want about the future of Russia,00:04:16
this even though it sounds And in Ukraine and I repeat once again in00:04:21
Eastern Europe there, in the same Poland in the00:04:25
Baltic countries, that00:04:29
Russia should not exist at all,00:04:31
not that Russia should not be but00:04:34
this is Russia today, it should00:04:37
either fly away somewhere And in its place00:04:40
something should appear, something else,00:04:43
something completely new, absolutely different,00:04:47
how do you generally feel about it? I’ll00:04:50
repeat this again. Then your Russia is a00:04:52
beautiful future that outlined,00:04:55
it still has to grow out of00:04:58
today’s somehow, even if00:05:01
only from these weeds that are00:05:03
growing there today. Or is there really a need for a00:05:06
complete cleanup and starting all over again? Well,00:05:10
first of all, I didn’t take the00:05:14
words of the00:05:16
respected00:05:17
former President of Estonia as meaning that he was00:05:22
something- then00:05:24
Russia offers to make speeches00:05:27
rather, I took His words as a reaction00:05:30
to the00:05:32
idea that after00:05:36
the war there should be a Marshall Plan not00:05:40
only for00:05:41
Ukraine but also for Russia, which00:05:45
was expressed by individual representatives of the00:05:48
Russian position, and00:05:50
His reaction was precisely in00:05:53
this sense, what if you want The00:05:56
Marshal's Plan, then here are 14 points for you And00:06:00
after that we'll talk, I absolutely agree with this00:06:03
because the Marshal's Plan, if we are00:06:06
talking about it, then it was connected00:06:08
with the fact that Germany was first00:06:11
bombed in response to what it did00:06:14
Germany lost millions there if not00:06:18
tens of millions of their citizens after00:06:21
that, Germany was occupied,00:06:23
denocified,00:06:25
demilitarized, and after that there was a00:06:28
Marshal Plan so that the00:06:32
people with whom00:06:34
all this was done They could start00:06:38
over, and those people who call for the00:06:41
Marshal clan for Russia, they must00:06:43
understand that first this should00:06:45
all be in in this case, what00:06:47
was done with Russia then it will not be00:06:49
perceived as00:06:53
some kind of encouragement for aggression, payment but00:06:56
not to the aggressor. And this will be precisely00:06:59
the Consequences of the fact that if you agree00:07:01
that Russia must first be bombed, then00:07:05
occupied, then00:07:06
carry out all the identification procedures with it,00:07:09
after this it00:07:12
will be Marshal's plan I do not believe that Russia will be00:07:20
occupied by anyone in the course of the processes currently taking place.00:07:23
I do not believe that someone from the outside00:07:27
will carry it out, where the fascisation and liquidation of the00:07:33
authoritarian regime and the00:07:36
de-fascisation of the Russian00:07:38
Russian society, into whose heads00:07:43
this has penetrated deeply,00:07:46
we will have to do it ourselves Well, or not00:07:49
to do it ourselves and then bear full responsibility for it,00:07:56
and with all the ensuing consequences,00:07:58
how they00:08:00
occurred for Argentina in the last century,00:08:04
how they arise for Iran now,00:08:07
North Korea, and the like, do00:08:10
I feel guilty? Well, to the extent00:08:16
that I feel completely life despite00:08:20
[music] the00:08:23
results of genetic analysis, I00:08:26
consider myself to be absolutely Russian people. That00:08:30
is, I, my family, we consider ourselves to be00:08:34
absolutely Russian people, people of Russian culture,00:08:36
and from this point of view, of course, what00:08:40
my country does cannot leave00:08:43
me00:08:45
indifferent, but with Personally, I as a person,00:08:51
regardless of the fact that I am Russian, I have been00:08:55
at war with Putin’s regime for 20 years,00:08:58
and everything I could00:09:01
do to prevent00:09:03
this regime from becoming what it has become00:09:07
now, over these 20 years, I have been accused of being00:09:10
appointed by Putin Well, maybe00:09:13
only in a humorous way, but00:09:16
the people gathered here generally00:09:19
know history well, I understand perfectly well that00:09:22
Putin was appointed by the family00:09:25
Putin was appointed by Yeltsin, I deeply00:09:30
regret that I was only00:09:33
informed about this and00:09:36
[music]00:09:38
I probably could have, like all Russians,00:09:42
made more efforts to so that he would00:09:46
not be appointed, I think that it would00:09:49
certainly not have helped anyway. But since we did not00:09:52
know what awaited us00:09:56
with this wonderful man, like the00:09:59
rest of the Russians, I made such00:10:02
extraordinary efforts. Thank00:10:06
you, thank you for00:10:08
your frankness, Vladimir Borisovich, you00:10:10
wanted me to want to aggravate00:10:13
our such deadwood a little discussion00:10:17
because, to be honest,00:10:19
I’m00:10:21
talking about the responsibility of the00:10:25
future of Russia00:10:27
to everyone from there, we will leave with the amendment00:10:32
that if we go out,00:10:34
of course it has the right to be00:10:39
honest, I would like to understand it’s00:10:43
strange a little00:10:45
here before they said Nothing that I fell with00:10:48
moons Nothing that I carried it00:10:51
actually happens and I somehow missed the00:10:56
Illis article you sent me, I00:10:58
looked at it, it seemed a little00:11:01
cuckoo to me, but in the sense that it is in00:11:03
some world where someone in the forest is talking00:11:07
and another is a Cuckoo answers00:11:10
the dialogue between two cuckoos, it didn’t00:11:14
seem relevant.00:11:17
I’ll be honest with the articles or doubts. I00:11:20
liked it. I did00:11:21
n’t like it not so much00:11:23
in the content, so in principle there are absolutely00:11:26
trivial things like Captain Obviousness, things are00:11:30
understandable as in their tone,00:11:35
but because there was such a tone00:11:40
Yes, the prosecutor’s mentoring00:11:43
still has to live this is firstly And00:11:48
secondly, it’s still out of place, it’s00:11:50
out of place now, but even more I didn’t00:11:53
like, to be honest,00:11:55
the reason on which he answers because I00:11:58
honestly, too, somehow in my life missed00:12:02
that someone00:12:05
had sunk to some kind of... then Rakan how to00:12:07
seriously raise the question of the00:12:09
Marshal Plan for Russia now,00:12:12
it’s like it’s about time Kiev was bombed,00:12:15
they announced to us that someone wants a Marshal Plan00:12:18
for Russia,00:12:19
why on earth does it turn out that we00:12:22
have such a strange strange one, not00:12:25
very appropriate, not very, let’s say,00:12:29
stylistically during a reaction to an even00:12:32
more inappropriate, completely00:12:35
unacceptable00:12:37
idea expressed at the wrong time, which in general00:12:40
seems to me and at any time because00:12:43
it’s like an old Jewish joke,00:12:45
my dear brother Izya, finally found the place00:12:47
and time to write a letter, I wrote it,00:12:53
but the time and place today to discuss00:12:57
the troubles and hardships of Russia and its future00:13:00
today is the time and place to discuss the00:13:03
results of the war in Ukraine, the00:13:07
Ukrainian economy is destroyed, bombs are flying00:13:11
throughout Ukraine, the restoration of this00:13:14
economy when there when I hope it00:13:17
will recover. This is what I understand further as00:13:21
for the Marshal’s plan00:13:24
Well, first of all, I must say that from your00:13:29
point of view, what kind of Marshal00:13:30
Russia A priori cannot need?00:13:34
Well, because Russia, if it00:13:37
remains at least in some00:13:38
significant part, is a00:13:40
rich, self-sufficient country,00:13:43
somehow in the cartoon we had resources,00:13:45
we are all right, our00:13:47
brains are often not in order sometimes we do00:13:50
n’t know how to use this, what is the00:13:52
Marshal Plan for a country that is00:13:55
actually bursting with everything00:13:57
second Well, yes, the only thing that Russia00:14:00
will need as such a plan is the00:14:03
lifting of sanctions00:14:04
Well, the lifting of sanctions will have to be00:14:07
earned00:14:08
But this is a completely separate, understandable00:14:11
topic00:14:12
thirdly To be honest to say that the00:14:15
Marshal's Plan is not asked for and no one is asking for it. The00:14:18
Marshal's Plan is needed not by those who are given, but by00:14:22
those who give. I want to say that my00:14:24
opinion is that the Marshal's Plan It was a reasonable00:14:27
move. What is better to give money and00:14:30
consolidate your position control than to do00:14:33
something develop uncontrollably00:14:35
Therefore, if it comes to the point that00:14:38
someone00:14:39
wants in that Russia that is00:14:42
formed at the site of00:14:45
the disaster, he will want you to have00:14:49
additional influence, then he will propose the00:14:51
Marshal Plan itself if it sucks00:14:55
without any post. It seems to me that in general the00:14:58
topic itself, that is, was artificial00:15:00
reason artificial reason absolutely00:15:02
unacceptable question posed by someone I do00:15:05
n’t even know who posed it And then in00:15:08
response to this question00:15:09
there are several 14 Behave like this Behave like00:15:14
this do that yes Everything is correct but00:15:16
no one needs it doesn’t help at all in00:15:19
general I I must say that this connection of the00:15:21
Marshal’s fetus teaches me something in life,00:15:25
only that, regardless of00:15:28
ethnicity, skin color,00:15:32
religious beliefs, for me, all00:15:35
people from birth are divided into two large00:15:37
groups, the00:15:38
first group is convinced that everyone is00:15:42
owed to them, and the second group which Believes00:15:46
that they owe everyone much less And here are the00:15:49
people who today,00:15:52
when there is no end to the war yet00:15:55
When Russia granites Ukraine raises00:15:58
questions about some kind of Marshal’s plan for00:16:00
Russia, people are obvious Here is the first group00:16:05
that everyone owes right now and00:16:07
here I consider the very reason for of our00:16:10
discussion, he is already a topic that I want to00:16:13
discuss because00:16:15
what Illus criticizes with is00:16:20
really moronic, but also the way in00:16:22
which he does it, to put it mildly, is00:16:24
inappropriate. And why is his Vladimir00:16:28
Borisovich00:16:32
moronic? But there he is.00:16:38
I said about him, I said the reason is precisely00:16:40
those who00:16:41
demand today Discuss your plan for00:16:44
Russia, I called it00:16:46
moronity. I think they00:16:49
still deserve discussion because00:16:51
let’s discuss them. Let’s get into00:16:54
specifics then let’s look at00:16:57
one of the theses that I00:17:01
liked, the word here is not the one that00:17:03
hooked me. Yes, this is about00:17:06
indulgences that many Russians00:17:09
they believe that he or she Russia is giving away the great00:17:14
Russian culture00:17:18
they believed that is called met people00:17:21
who00:17:23
concepts I am just looking at the images00:17:28
that Illis describes and I simply cannot00:17:32
find anywhere in relation to reality00:17:34
that there are really people who are not00:17:37
for the war who understand what is00:17:40
happening in the zone At the same time, he believes that00:17:44
they have an indulgence. That’s what00:17:47
Pushkin bought for them. Yes, I’ve never met anything like this,00:17:51
let’s say Dostoevsky Dostoevskaya, by the way, I00:17:54
love less surprised me a little. Well,00:17:58
probably there are such people. Well, thank God00:18:02
that we’re discussing them. It seems to me that here there is a00:18:07
desire to00:18:09
put forward some kind of deeply personally00:18:11
accumulated relationships it is clear it is00:18:15
deserved, that is, before Ukraine there was the00:18:18
Baltic and well, we remember there, that is,00:18:22
to the extent that I identify00:18:26
myself with the Russian culture, the Tunisian is00:18:28
responsible for this, yes There was also the Baltic,00:18:31
another question is whether Ilves00:18:37
bears a partial responsibility00:18:40
for00:18:41
the Holocaust that was carried out in the00:18:44
Baltic countries there, relatively speaking, also had00:18:48
its own problems and I am also sure that I was00:18:51
not involved in this since I was in the00:18:54
genocide that is happening today by the00:18:56
Russians, but I say that with00:18:59
happiness I am responsible for this00:19:00
because people did it who00:19:03
do who speak the same language with me00:19:05
grew up from one of this00:19:07
culture So I can’t excuse myself I00:19:10
can’t say now that you know I00:19:12
didn’t go here and I’m not going to sprinkle my00:19:16
head I feel that Yes, that’s00:19:19
how the Lord decreed that this is a00:19:23
zone my responsibility because here I00:19:30
have to feel responsible for something,00:19:32
also everywhere my crosses00:19:33
may not be so big,00:19:35
but maybe big crosses, crosses,00:19:38
crosses, everyone has crosses, you know,00:19:41
the story is generally long, there was a lot of things,00:19:44
so the question is why this should be00:19:47
discussed in this tonality, it00:19:49
helps I don’t know, I don’t think it00:19:52
helps I think today we’re00:19:54
going a little bit Well, it’s like the third00:19:57
Circle of00:19:58
the thesis, it’s really upsetting, but00:20:03
for the Third and Second00:20:08
I didn’t say reasonableness, I said that we00:20:12
will say for the Third time that the00:20:14
appeal is to specific people who00:20:18
think that Russian culture is given to them00:20:21
or that the Marshal Plan is necessary for an00:20:25
undestroyed country Well, okay, there are such00:20:30
people [music]00:20:31
for some reason00:20:35
answer answered well yes, I00:20:39
still understand that00:20:41
people like Ilbis are00:20:44
Estonians Latvians Latvians Lithuanians Poles00:20:49
Ukrainians this is if we are talking about00:20:52
Eastern Europe and I am sure that00:20:54
many people in Western Europe are already00:20:56
discussing00:20:59
how Russia should take the00:21:04
path of correction00:21:06
and they00:21:08
put forward some demands, you probably00:21:11
think they have the right to make some00:21:13
demands on Russia, after what it has00:21:16
done,00:21:19
let’s see what kind of demands it is, because00:21:23
look. Well, this is of course radical, it’s00:21:26
a bit of a PR move rather than a00:21:28
real approach. You saw here a00:21:31
statement from the foundation, yes, which00:21:35
said that in general in Russia, the worse the00:21:37
better; the worse in Russia, the better for00:21:40
everyone else. Therefore, he00:21:43
came out with a paradoxical thought that00:21:45
in general he wants, God forbid, if00:21:48
Navalny is released from prison and God forbid that00:21:51
Putin remains because the longer00:21:53
Putin stays, the worse it will be in Russia;00:22:01
in fact, many00:22:03
in the West, not so much but for I00:22:06
heard me in nine00:22:09
tenths of 14 15 from completely different00:22:13
people there was no war yet, but there00:22:15
was such a thesis there Putin is00:22:18
absolutely00:22:21
ideal. They just didn’t think that it00:22:24
would come to war as an00:22:25
ideal leader since he is holding00:22:27
back the modernization of Russia,00:22:29
so there is no need to fear that00:22:31
she the category will pop up as a state that00:22:36
claims something new in the economy, he’s00:22:39
such a normal00:22:41
huckster who00:22:44
serves 202 to receive 220 leaves00:22:49
127 for the difference. He hums and00:22:53
then everything is fine, they’re just this is00:22:58
the evolution that Putin is a synonym for the word00:23:01
war and also00:23:04
as if he’s busy taking into account that it may not00:23:08
last a month, not two or three, but a year00:23:11
and two and three four five and that’s all Putin00:23:14
and there will be war, it will be good, I looked at this topic00:23:18
with humor when people say00:23:21
that But instead of Putin there could be00:23:25
someone worse than the guys You have a president of00:23:29
the country who started00:23:31
our full-fledged aggressive war00:23:34
four times already threatened with nuclear weapons And00:23:38
you are all Afraid That something could be00:23:39
worse, I can’t imagine what00:23:43
could be worse Therefore, when the idiot of the00:23:46
current situation says Let’s00:23:47
leave Putin Okay I here I00:23:50
agree with my sick people, he00:23:52
definitely wants the war there to continue00:23:57
in all these You know, there is an article by a very00:24:01
beloved Russian dictator,00:24:04
but it has become such a meme for 70 years, it’s almost00:24:08
called dizziness from success,00:24:11
these people are thrown by the heat and the cold and00:24:16
back again there was one crazy mood when the00:24:22
Buryat these connections stood near00:24:25
Kiev00:24:26
and of course a completely different mood00:24:29
like00:24:34
these same connections If the dream is00:24:37
one problem is that the Earth is a long circle in00:24:41
life and the war is going on with a very00:24:44
powerful power that has sunk to the very00:24:48
bottom of totalitarianism, which has turned, well, in00:24:51
my opinion, into just such a single00:24:53
totalitarian sect00:24:55
and in this the country has a lot of resources, and00:24:58
so I would say that the more00:25:02
reliable Victory will be, the more00:25:05
sober it is, the more sober the head is,00:25:08
all this talk about What could be00:25:10
worse? I want to relax for a second,00:25:12
listen, or somehow this is not a joke, it’s a00:25:16
real00:25:17
story lawyer from the history of those00:25:22
times, how such a person was the chairman of the00:25:25
trial, there was a lawyer00:25:27
in St. Petersburg who got absolutely00:25:30
everyone in the studio that he admired the00:25:40
presiding officer, your honor Dear00:25:42
jury00:25:44
creators Well, look, it could have been00:25:48
worse and everyone knew that he00:25:50
would end any speech With this phrase and was considered00:25:53
some very nasty case of the00:25:56
rape and murder of a very daughter,00:25:59
it’s painful and disgusting,00:26:02
heavy, how are all such cases and00:26:06
the horses will help, tensed up waiting for what00:26:09
will happen there and when the lawyer started his song to00:26:14
think it could be worse00:26:18
to be God, Mr. Attorney, what00:26:22
could be worse00:26:24
like this means and he00:26:28
and it would be worse if the chairman raped00:26:32
your daughter, the only thing worse than Putin can be00:26:35
Putin who came to your house and00:26:37
so everything else can be nothing00:26:40
attorneys then there is no jury00:26:43
Yes, I will transfer the jury then speak00:26:48
please tell me on what other00:26:50
issue you really look there with 1400:26:53
years, and probably since the earlier period00:26:56
since 11 years, rather even Putin blames for00:26:59
all sins both within the country and abroad, and00:27:03
everything is clear, but connections with this war00:27:06
have arisen. It seems to me that a new phenomenon there00:27:09
in the West, beyond our borders, it’s00:27:12
not only Putin who is accused Yes, after00:27:15
all, there are many in this war and Willis.00:27:19
This clearly sounds like he is accusing Russian00:27:23
society that not00:27:26
one person is responsible, but that we all, well, we all00:27:30
said, maybe not specifically Mikhail00:27:32
Borisovich Vladimir Borisovich or even myself,00:27:34
maybe I’ll even try to exclude myself00:27:37
from this number but when we all, I00:27:39
mean Russian society bears,00:27:42
if not this, almost equal responsibility00:27:46
with the Russian authorities for this situation,00:27:49
gentlemen of the jury, speak00:27:53
about the accusations against Russian00:27:55
society. You know, I would00:28:01
start here with the fact that how unfortunate it is,00:28:07
but I am convinced that00:28:10
due to various considerations, if you now00:28:14
vote in favor in Russia00:28:18
absolutely honestly00:28:20
about the need to finish off Ukraine,00:28:26
60 percent will vote that it is necessary to00:28:28
finish off00:28:30
and this share is increasing, it was00:28:33
less and now it is increasing,00:28:37
people explain it to themselves in different ways, I have00:28:40
heard different ones there words, the most00:28:44
common expression among previously00:28:49
seemingly decent people is that if my husband00:28:52
once this happened, now if we don’t00:28:55
finish them off, they will finish us off,00:28:58
and from this point of view, society is of course00:29:02
deeply painful, it’s like a00:29:06
bandit hit a man in the head, but he’s00:29:10
still moving, but how can he carry it now?00:29:35
someone will say that this is not 60 percent, but00:29:38
40, someone will say that this is 80, which is a00:29:42
lot, but in any case, there are00:29:47
30 million people left, the worst 3000:29:51
million people who00:29:54
answer these questions, understanding who they are00:29:57
answering, they answer that no00:30:00
this the war must be ended,00:30:03
something that is being done is monstrous And00:30:08
how fair can it be to00:30:12
say about these 30 million people that00:30:16
they are like this?00:30:19
Well, it looks a little00:30:22
In my opinion,00:30:24
not humanistic for the 21st century, we still00:30:29
believe that people are a00:30:33
self-sufficient value and not00:30:36
just part of a certain community,00:30:38
if a person himself00:30:41
takes a different position and, moreover,00:30:45
boldly defends it, and moreover, some00:30:48
of them risk their lives defending00:30:53
their point of view, then00:30:55
to hang the responsibility of a certain community on them00:31:00
is wrong. It00:31:04
seems to me that here we constantly00:31:08
live in a world of artificially imposed on us00:31:12
substitution of concepts because we are constantly00:31:15
jumping from social responsibility00:31:18
to personal responsibility.00:31:24
Can I say that Russian society00:31:27
as a society is not responsible for00:31:30
this war? This is also excluded, and you remember00:31:34
our conversations in the early days when it00:31:37
arose that many people wanted00:31:43
this Putin's war00:31:46
I said that I will not fit into this slogan00:31:50
because for me this is not Putin's00:31:52
war, for me, unfortunately to a great extent,00:31:55
this is the war of the Russian people00:31:58
when I say the war of the Russian people. I am00:32:02
not saying that this is the war of every00:32:05
single Russian person, but00:32:08
the problem is that such a society What is a00:32:10
people this is the Matrix00:32:12
There is no such concept of the people there is no such00:32:15
person with hands00:32:18
this is the Matrix00:32:20
someone always sets the matrix, that is,00:32:24
some kind of00:32:25
crystal lattice on00:32:28
which it rests The Matrix00:32:30
changes the crystal lattice00:32:33
changes The Matrix today the people are one00:32:35
tomorrow another But today the people00:32:38
as we see it, this Matrix of the00:32:40
Russian people today is the Matrix of00:32:44
violence which has been internal violence for 20 years.00:32:48
And now I will violate the payment with this00:32:52
desire00:32:54
to own the whole world of Ukraine, in particular the00:32:56
private one.00:32:58
I believe that it can be clarified in the00:33:03
process so that it is further clear what the00:33:05
Russian people are in this context So00:33:07
I said that the Russian people, the Russian00:33:09
people, for me this is the Matrix, this is the structure,00:33:12
you know,00:33:14
what structure in this context00:33:20
is this an ethnic concept, yes or no,00:33:24
I don’t think that’s good I don’t like00:33:28
these words because we’re talking, we’re00:33:30
talking French people although there’s00:33:33
a lot going on there too. Well, somehow I don’t really00:33:36
like these Russian roads,00:33:38
citizens of Ukraine living in Kharkov, so00:33:43
to speak, and calling themselves00:33:45
Russians, although Ukrainians, and fighting00:33:50
now from the outside, that’s not what I’m talking00:33:54
about now. Naturally, they are part of another00:33:58
Yes, so00:33:59
in relation to this But I just want to00:34:02
understand for myself00:34:04
because maybe it’s what you00:34:07
now call the Russian people. And I, for00:34:10
example, haven’t considered myself there since February 24.00:34:13
Yes, that’s great, maybe, and I00:34:16
can still be part of it much earlier and don’t00:34:18
consider it I may be, uh, I don’t relate to00:34:22
the questions of whether we treated ourselves to him, but00:34:24
in relation to him, we to ourselves, this is00:34:27
the kind of uh00:34:29
then the Russian people consider themselves to be This is the00:34:32
Russian people that you are talking about,00:34:34
they treat themselves to themselves, the inhabitants of Zaporozhye,00:34:37
they themselves to No, they don’t belong to him Yes,00:34:41
but this is war But this is the war of the00:34:44
Russian people who consider themselves everything00:34:47
to me, the00:34:49
Russian people are still, well, some00:34:55
kind of jellyfish, so she’s kind of00:34:58
viscous liquid, but she feels her00:35:00
unity and she’s around something this is what00:35:02
it revolves around today.00:35:05
This is a rather rotten00:35:09
core, and today, unfortunately,00:35:12
it defines it in00:35:15
this mass of the Russian people. I already think00:35:18
50 percent, I absolutely agree with00:35:21
your classification, even if I developed it, that00:35:24
is, actually speaking00:35:25
These are the turned ones who are thirsty for war,00:35:30
eager for war, living00:35:32
creatures like this Well, a maximum of 14 percent00:35:38
radical if there is the rest of the mass00:35:42
the rest of the mass is people, I listened to00:35:46
Zuborevich today in the morning very competently00:35:49
said people people are actually00:35:52
atomized00:35:54
selfishly and the main sin is not00:35:57
aggression No no I don’t need Ukraine, in00:36:01
fact, I’ll give them No, I don’t need it, and the00:36:03
Donetsk children don’t care at all. Sorry,00:36:05
please, they want to live in peace, eat,00:36:10
drink, multiply, have fun,00:36:13
they don’t like all this at all, by00:36:16
and large, they want 1 God00:36:19
to abstract themselves from this war and00:36:21
push him out, here Zubarevich gives00:36:24
a very an interesting example, everything is falling00:36:27
there, the food market there is 10 there,00:36:30
somewhere around 15 percent of the service,00:36:32
industrial, what is growing in the summer suddenly00:36:36
flooded here speech says growing00:36:39
restaurant cafes bars drinking establishments00:36:44
conclusion What kind of people want to live a normal00:36:49
life, that is, they really don’t have00:36:52
any here this00:36:54
charge for this big one and you’re00:36:56
right, you added to this what he00:36:58
wants, he wants something, it’s over quickly,00:37:01
that means how it ended, there are two ways for00:37:04
it to end, the00:37:05
first way is such a difficult path of00:37:08
repentance, then you really need to00:37:11
understand what are we doing here? everyone00:37:14
has done this, but you have to answer for this00:37:17
and still have to make reparations00:37:19
pay And in general, all this00:37:22
will be humiliating and I should think about starting to00:37:24
turn on my brain and think about what the00:37:27
idea was Where was this next to it One00:37:31
way Second way Let someone- then00:37:34
this will outlive Ukraine. Well, they took these00:37:37
mobilized people from me, they didn’t take him there,00:37:39
his relatives didn’t take him. How is there one00:37:41
blogger, too, again, I don’t listen to everyone.00:37:44
Only somehow Shevchuk, in my opinion, said00:37:50
that he showed with the example of this candy,00:37:54
they mobilized one, no big deal, 9900:37:56
candies can continue to have fun00:38:00
Let them there Ukraine got it,00:38:03
I could go with a drink of beer, I haven’t00:38:08
heard of the war, this is actually the motivation,00:38:10
that is, this is the motivation as a result of00:38:13
which00:38:14
I would say that most of the people are00:38:18
not delusional about these myths of world00:38:21
greatness, they are just wants to make noise, don’t interfere with00:38:23
living peacefully, and if for this you have to00:38:26
kill Ukrainian children,00:38:29
then for God’s sake let him kill me, it doesn’t00:38:32
concern me Yes, this is such a philosophy,00:38:38
it has become dominant Unfortunately,00:38:40
Why Because the philosophy00:38:42
is the opposite of what you and I00:38:44
profess, it has lost that’s why the appearance is the00:38:48
appearance of our people today it00:38:50
is formed by this matrix. Although inside00:38:53
this matrix there are a bunch of dissenters00:38:55
like us, does this mean that if there00:38:58
are people like us, then in general this00:39:01
holistic picture does not exist, it00:39:04
exists because for now I dominate there00:39:06
and make the appearance of this people and what are its00:39:09
boundaries, but they are vague, you know,00:39:11
they are vague, you can’t Kharkov, not00:39:14
Kharkov, I can’t answer this, here00:39:17
I am, there is some kind of00:39:19
Andromeda nebula in the center, dense at the edges, it00:39:23
gets lost, but this Andromeda nebula I am00:39:26
today, the shape of this Shape reminds me of00:39:28
something unpleasant But all this is00:39:32
mixed up with a very naive00:39:34
misconception that now we will at least somehow00:39:37
end this war and immediately return to our00:39:40
former life, those restaurants,00:39:42
entertainment and so on, but one people00:39:45
should00:40:05
have specific Jews, I don’t have them, but they told me00:40:08
that it would be better without them, but Yes, and00:40:10
these people were mistaken for 12 whole years,00:40:14
they get the concept of how and then they say00:40:17
Well, yes, they should be more mistaken,00:40:20
but no, you’re on 12 12 33 to 45 I would00:40:25
still in this case Taking00:40:27
advantage of the fact that we have the opportunity00:40:31
to specify more precisely I I would00:40:33
call it the Putin people and not the Russian00:40:36
people because the Russian people are00:40:38
very different, it’s not for nothing that you00:40:41
can’t define them. Well, because as00:40:44
soon as you start defining them,00:40:46
you’ll immediately be struck by the fact that this edge doesn’t00:40:49
come from that edge, they don’t come this way every00:40:52
time millions and tens of millions of people00:40:54
and it turns out that there are Russian people,00:40:57
this is some kind of big thing and00:41:00
has nothing to do with this, Putin’s00:41:03
people are very clear, very specific,00:41:06
which has Absolutely right Two00:41:10
positions: Either we want blood and we want to drag00:41:14
other people’s toilets and washing machines,00:41:17
or OK00:41:20
we Now we are afraid that we will be punished for these toilets00:41:24
and therefore we will finish off those00:41:27
from whom our other colleagues stole these toilets.00:41:31
These are Putin’s People and00:41:35
they have only an00:41:37
indirect relationship with the Russian people because they00:41:39
overlap with them in a certain part, in a00:41:43
significant part there will be this 4000:41:46
percent it will be 60 percent it will be 8000:41:48
percent, but I want to draw your attention to the fact00:41:51
that it is crossed from other parts.00:41:54
Such ball-shaped balls up to00:41:58
today in Europe, even to hell, they00:42:01
support Putin, which is also00:42:04
exactly if they would like it, so to00:42:08
speak, they are today in they do not00:42:09
participate in this. This is an accident, they are00:42:15
their merit. But there are completely different people,00:42:18
there are completely different people, and if we00:42:21
take the position that the main thing00:42:24
is the man, the main thing is the man, they are00:42:28
like the creation of God. Yes, they are those things00:42:31
that man himself later created in the00:42:34
form of certain organizations, then we00:42:36
must very precisely specify00:42:39
this particular person: does he belong to00:42:42
Putin’s Putin community or does he00:42:45
not belong to it? I agree on another point00:42:49
that now in order not to belong00:42:51
to the Putin community it is not enough to simply00:42:56
not actively participate in the Sabbaths today00:42:59
in order not to participate not to be00:43:01
part of the Putin community00:43:04
Something else positive is needed What needs to be done00:43:06
somehow resist this somehow But00:43:10
those people who are fighting for this don’t need to00:43:14
drag them inside some00:43:16
non-existent in this context in the00:43:19
context of this war of the Russian community00:43:22
people This is another story, another story00:43:25
It’s Putin’s people Putin started this00:43:27
war Putin got into the heads of those who00:43:31
were ready to listen to him that this war Well,00:43:35
if it’s wrong, then in any case it’s00:43:37
inevitable And these people today00:43:41
Putin uses Yes, fully00:43:46
I really hope that the00:43:50
consequences for these people whom he00:43:53
uses will be sad, that they00:43:56
will have to00:43:57
go through a very serious Repentance over time,00:44:00
I have a question for you regarding this connection with this,00:44:03
this Putin people, this00:44:05
Putin people, this Putin community, you00:44:09
belong to the whole Spectrum, I would say this00:44:12
ideological which, together with Putin,00:44:15
I will call by last name yes What is called00:44:18
from Dugin to Kudrin firstly00:44:21
[music]00:44:23
Dugin to Kudrin I generally classify them as00:44:27
Putin’s close accomplices,00:44:31
just an accomplice these are criminals Kudrin00:44:36
is a criminal whose who00:44:39
will be in the dock00:44:42
there is another matter there they are00:44:44
amnestied they are not amnestied this is a different00:44:47
conversation but he will have to sit in the00:44:49
dock it is inevitable if00:44:51
some person thinks that for all these00:44:56
months of this war he helped Putin00:44:58
Solve his problems and now he’s like he’s00:45:02
just can step aside, it’s00:45:04
[ __ ] up with such approaches, this is what Kudrin,00:45:08
what Chubais, what Gref, so to speak,00:45:10
no matter where they are now, the guys are in the00:45:13
dock and we’ll00:45:15
sort it out there. So they will answer you, but we00:45:19
did everything possible not for Putin, we00:45:21
saved the country’s economy, we you would like00:45:24
people there not to starve, your wishes are not00:45:27
at all interesting during the war, what00:45:31
helps this regime continue this00:45:35
war, and the fact that you helped maintain00:45:38
the economy, helped this regime00:45:40
maintain the war, makes you00:45:43
accomplices and in this sense you should not refer00:45:46
all tens of millions of people00:45:48
there is a very significant difference between a00:45:51
little person and a person from00:45:53
Putin’s entourage who can, as a00:45:55
result of his, so to speak, services to the00:45:58
dictator and then ask. There are five00:46:01
percent of Yandex that means. Don’t00:46:04
try to equate them all with this00:46:06
Putin’s entourage. And now when we00:46:09
talk about the00:46:10
people there are those people who00:46:15
today they say loudly or even quietly,00:46:18
Well, what can we do, we’ll have to finish off00:46:22
Ukraine; they take on a very00:46:25
serious responsibility for which they00:46:26
will then have to bear a very serious00:46:29
Repentance, both moral and material, and there’s00:46:33
no getting away from it and then00:46:35
you’ll have to in front of the children, maybe not00:46:37
the children, maybe It’s understandable to make excuses with your grandchildren00:46:42
about different people; the fact that we00:46:45
named specific surnames, you have the00:46:48
same attitude towards those people who00:46:52
are considered or call themselves and are considered00:46:54
liberals there, by the way, Ilves,00:46:57
with whom we started00:46:59
our discussion today, is primarily aimed00:47:02
at liberals Yes there appeals because the00:47:04
liberals asked. I really didn’t hear00:47:07
such an appeal, but apparently it was00:47:09
asked for this plan from the Marshal, but let’s leave00:47:14
aside this is the00:47:17
Russian liberals,00:47:19
whether those who asked are considered liberals is a00:47:22
really interesting question, but do00:47:24
they consider it interesting for themselves00:47:32
because of00:47:34
their spiritual vocation But there are such00:47:37
questions to which there is simply no00:47:40
theoretical answer. At least00:47:42
I00:47:43
have answers that there was a story there00:47:46
was such a wonderful00:47:50
German intellectual00:47:53
he came from00:47:56
[music] an00:47:57
aristocratic family with very deep00:48:00
roots00:48:02
from those who were born with a00:48:06
golden spoon or a silver spoon in00:48:08
the mouth, more correctly to say and00:48:12
from childhood he had a fantastic00:48:14
talent for architecture and00:48:17
was indeed a very talented00:48:18
architect and he00:48:21
studied with the best Architects in00:48:25
Germany, knew French architecture very well,00:48:31
supported such00:48:35
serious00:48:37
modernization projects in his time,00:48:40
was quite indifferent to politics00:48:43
all his life, openly indifferent00:48:45
politicians Well, since architecture is00:48:48
especially architecture large forms, it’s the00:48:51
same as the job of a producer of a director00:48:53
in a movie, because there you are not just an artist, you are00:48:56
always a very good organizer because,00:48:59
well, I need to write an article on the00:49:01
computer, silence, a cup of tea and my wife next00:49:04
to inspire me. What does a director need,00:49:08
what to make a film? This a factory is a00:49:10
production facility, what does an architect need? To00:49:12
build a grandiose complex,00:49:14
cement, all this is already there, in principle, a00:49:17
whole industry, so there were also00:49:20
fantastic realizations of the ability00:49:22
somewhere, his life was reduced to Hitler, and Hitler00:49:25
was in the soul of artists, by the way, he is00:49:29
very different from Putin and00:49:32
backwardness, by the way. in many ways he was so00:49:35
unrecognized00:49:38
[music]00:49:40
But it was in architecture that00:49:43
some kind of spark slipped between them And00:49:46
gradually this man of Hitler fell00:49:49
under his button accordion, fell in love and then00:49:52
he was needed and he was always00:49:54
liberal and in general did not00:49:57
participate in anything, it made me sick at all of all these00:49:59
ideas with the Holocaust, he naturally tried to do this,00:50:02
he despised00:50:05
Tamberg in pharmacies, he had nothing to do with this,00:50:09
although at all he was in the closest, he was a00:50:11
friend of Hitler, he did not participate in each00:50:14
other. He sat at parties and watched as00:50:16
Hitler laughed at those people who00:50:18
themselves wrote these I considered plans for the extermination of00:50:21
Jews00:50:23
and00:50:25
then further And then this happened. This is the00:50:28
problem the country found itself in a difficult00:50:30
situation, as you say, but that is, It00:50:33
was hard in the country and the Minister of Industry of Germany died somewhere in the00:50:36
same Kharkov00:50:40
Well, either sabotage or shot down his00:50:43
plane and no one is there And here he00:50:46
becomes in 1943, out of necessity in the country,00:50:49
the country needs help to stop00:50:51
as the head of industry literally in00:50:54
1944 And by the way, he poorly optimized00:50:57
everything there,00:50:58
again, no one was killed, he tried to00:51:01
imprison the workers and so on for00:51:04
20 years they didn’t shoot, in fact they gave 20 years,00:51:07
you understand, although he was not with them, he was a00:51:10
liberal, he tried not00:51:12
to participate in anything, very creative, such a00:51:14
pleasant person in all respects,00:51:17
apparently history gives such simple answers,00:51:19
probably these questions were his name, the00:51:26
answer was given,00:51:28
that’s for sure. By the way, I want to say00:51:32
that as always, as Jesus Christ bequeathed that00:51:37
there is a way out of the situation,00:51:40
and if a person repents00:51:44
before the trial,00:51:47
before this whole situation happens,00:51:50
as a matter of fact, my complaint00:51:52
is not that they00:51:54
did something, my complaint is00:51:56
that they are now trying to jump off Yes, but00:52:00
without repenting Yes, without declaring that00:52:03
we are to blame for the fact that we helped this00:52:06
criminal regime, without declaring that we00:52:09
bear our share of responsibility for this,00:52:11
without declaring that we will never deal with this ghoul again,00:52:18
but just quietly to the side and00:52:20
like nothing happened. I00:52:24
can’t agree with these. Well, we’ve been00:52:27
talking for almost an hour on such lofty00:52:29
topics in general, although we set out to00:52:31
fulfill specific claims00:52:33
that the former Estonian president00:52:35
put forward against Russian liberals,00:52:39
which is true. Mikhail Borisovich laughed00:52:40
at the fact that they are liberals.00:52:43
I don’t I know they don’t consider themselves liberals00:52:47
and to whom this was demanded, that00:52:56
’s why they think it’s normal00:53:01
for00:53:05
any person who00:53:07
opposes the war there, he’s a liberal, it doesn’t matter.00:53:10
It’s already been played. I just wanted, as00:53:13
usual, to devote our last five minutes there00:53:16
more specifically to00:53:18
current political issues. How do you rate it?00:53:21
If Do you somehow evaluate what00:53:25
happened in Belarus with Mr. Makei00:53:30
at night there was such a servant of00:53:34
Lukashenko who tried to help him00:53:39
play on two fronts at once00:53:43
on different fronts Well then this man00:53:48
died Well he died and so to speak Maxim00:53:52
a lot of conspiracy theories are immediately00:53:54
appearing00:53:55
he interfered with Russia, then he interfered with Lukashenko, then on00:54:00
the contrary, Russia wanted to put him in00:54:02
place of Lukashenko and he had00:54:05
ties with the West, and so on,00:54:08
changes the whole situation and Belarus will00:54:12
now be more involved in00:54:15
this seam. In my opinion, there is nothing00:54:18
because Luka could to maneuver like this and00:54:22
to maneuver will not be able to maneuver,00:54:24
it means there will be something else to do. I00:54:26
would pay attention to something else here.00:54:28
So, living your life like Mr.00:54:30
Makeit in different positions is very00:54:33
wonderful and then he died and everyone00:54:35
is discussing the reason; no one feels sorry for him. Well,00:54:38
except maybe for those closest to him. people00:54:41
except close people00:54:44
Well,00:54:46
this is the fate of headphones. It’s00:54:50
always like this. Can you imagine how many people00:54:53
face the same fate? Something immediately quickly00:54:56
looked around, not that it’s00:55:00
true that Vladimir Borisovich last00:55:03
time, in my opinion, categorically objected00:55:06
to or inhaled Borisovich against the word00:55:08
Elite Take a look at Russian elite00:55:10
Russian elite How00:55:12
many people face the same fate Well,00:55:16
they just should know in my opinion00:55:20
Vladimir You also don’t betray much importance00:55:23
if you think that we have00:55:28
Such a mentality trait, it’s necessary to have a disease,00:55:30
this is a special type of thinking,00:55:32
conspiracy theories and00:55:35
people just00:55:37
build certain schemes and to00:55:41
Unfortunately, in this sense, I have a00:55:44
very positivistic brain and00:55:48
music. There is a drawback to starting00:55:51
from the facts, we naturally cannot deny anything, nor can we00:55:54
affirm00:55:57
any facts that indicate that00:56:00
behind this death there is also00:56:05
something regarding death. What if There is not a00:56:09
single such fact, it’s00:56:11
just a fantasy that, in00:56:15
principle, he could have been killed. Well, yes, we00:56:17
see, as it were, anyone. How is it in the00:56:21
second episode of The Godfather, if the story00:56:24
began? It teaches that it can kill00:56:27
anyone and Anytime,00:56:28
so I’m just bye I don’t see a topic00:56:32
for discussion here until I have received00:56:34
some factual information regarding the00:56:36
meaning of the departure of a specific individual,00:56:40
again a very large Spectrum. I00:56:42
understand that there is practically a unique00:56:46
situation in history when she cannot00:56:48
do without some individual. Usually00:56:50
she behaves twice three times they insure for the place of00:56:54
one solver there are 10 others00:56:58
even more naked he was actually the00:57:01
solver there like that00:57:03
now it’s fashionable there at Rostec there is a position of00:57:06
vice president for special assignments00:57:08
Well, this one for special assignments00:57:11
This is probably the highest competition ever00:57:14
for such a job It’s clear the role of the individual00:57:18
in history In general, not high and so00:57:21
I understand00:57:30
or any personality in general. No, of course,00:57:34
Putin, no matter what they say about him, played an00:57:36
absolutely monstrous role in the history of Russia,00:57:40
I am absolutely convinced that in00:57:42
his place there will be, for example,00:57:44
Primakov. I’m not even talking about Mr.00:57:47
Chernomyrden, then history, of course,00:57:50
would have developed completely in another way,00:57:52
simply because, well, these people, no matter how we00:57:56
treat them, they still00:57:58
[music]00:58:02
have a high level of responsibility.00:58:06
But what Putin did was complete00:58:10
irresponsibility, among other things,00:58:12
as a manager. He acted00:58:15
irresponsibly there are00:58:17
political ethical aspects of this00:58:20
issue another thing is I agree with the conclusion00:58:23
but do not agree with the marking I00:58:26
absolutely agree with the conclusion00:58:29
the meeting of00:58:31
my house that00:58:34
Turn around the story Otherwise it could00:58:36
have turned out and this is a huge fault of the family00:58:38
with a capital F and be on my day or the00:58:42
power twister it went the other way00:58:44
but the matter is with mine from the point of view of00:58:46
responsibility, he gave one definition00:58:51
that people00:58:54
are divided into those to whom they owe and those who00:58:58
owe, but there is another definition00:59:00
by colleagues Boris, another one00:59:03
they know, and suddenly he once told me that00:59:06
all People are divided into people with criminal00:59:09
thinking and not with criminal thinking of00:59:13
all other things, Klimakova, Chernobyl, with00:59:16
all its shortcomings, was distinguished by the fact that these00:59:19
were people without criminal thinking, I00:59:21
still want to ask a question, I don’t00:59:24
want to stop there,00:59:26
Vladimir Borisovich regarding Regarding the00:59:30
family’s mistake then, the family’s mistake00:59:33
in choosing a specific person or in general in the00:59:36
fact that they were making a choice in general the fact00:59:39
that the family put their narrow00:59:42
selfish interests00:59:44
above the interests of society, the interests of00:59:48
the country came above morality and above00:59:50
responsibility00:59:54
No, they were not mistaken, they were not mistaken, but they put00:59:57
their own interests, they had the opportunity to01:00:00
put and took advantage of this01:00:02
opportunity, here I completely01:00:05
agree.01:00:07
The question is not that they01:00:09
chose the wrong person they didn’t just01:00:12
select him for their needs of self-preservation with01:00:15
their wealth of your power. They thought01:00:18
that they were retaining their power, but01:00:20
they were mistaken in only one thing: that he01:00:22
did that he took this power for himself and did not01:00:25
give it to them. Well, I would say that’s01:00:28
what he was pawning on01:00:30
Boris Nikolaevich, when it became obvious to me in general,01:00:32
he laid down and01:00:35
checked in practice with Kuratov01:00:37
those people who would be ready to01:00:41
ensure the safety and protection of the family. By the way,01:00:45
the agreement was not included, so to speak, since I was not01:00:48
a member of the family’s family, so, so to speak,01:00:51
when01:00:52
[music]01:00:54
Putin became to do what Boris Nikolaevich did01:00:58
on this topic, he kept silent simply because, well, no matter01:01:01
how it was not in the preliminary01:01:05
agreement, you were not part of01:01:07
the package agreement, I was not part of01:01:10
the package agreement, and so they01:01:13
prioritized01:01:17
this security and the rest became01:01:21
secondary Yes they would like everything to01:01:25
be better Well, of course they would. Well, of01:01:27
course they would, but when it came to01:01:30
priorities, safety became a priority.01:01:33
Thank you, it was a road map. I think01:01:36
that we will return to this topic more than once and01:01:39
to all the others that we01:01:40
touched on today and which We01:01:42
haven’t touched on today yet until we meet in a weekDescription:
«Дорожная карта» — еженедельная программа, в которой Михаил Ходорковский и Владимир Пастухов обсуждают актуальную повестку общественно-политической жизни России. Ведущий — Виталий Дымарский. В новом выпуске Ходорковский, Пастухов и Дымарский обсудили степень вины российского общества и любого россиянина в войне в Украине. Сколько на самом деле россиян являются сторонниками и противниками войны и Владимира Путина? Кто может быть быть хуже Путина? Как Ходорковский и Пастухов относятся к тезисам экс-президента Эстонии Тоомаса Хендрика Ильвеса о «плане Маршалла» для России? Почему Кудрин, Чубайс и Греф должны оказаться на скамье подсудимых как преступники, по мнению Михаила Ходорковского? И почему вина Семьи Бориса Ельцина была не в том, что они назначили преемником Путина, а не Черномырдина или Примакова, а в гораздо большем? Обо всем этом — в новом выпуске программы Михаила Ходорковского, Владимира Пастухова и Виталия Дымарского. Таймкоды: 00:00 Трейлер 00:25 14 тезисов экс-президент Эстонии Тоомаса Хендрика Ильвеса 02:00 Пастухов о том, чувствует ли он свою вину за войну в Украине 03:37 Дымарский: в странах Балтии многие считают, что России не должно быть 05:10 Ходорковский о возможности нового «плана Маршалла» 08:11 Ходорковский: Я воюю с путинизмом уже 20 лет 10:10 Пастухов: В «плане Маршалла» Россия не нуждается 16:48 Индульгенции от Пушкина, Достоевского и русской культуры 18:04 О словах Подоляка что лучше бы Навальный и дальше сидел в тюрьме 23:17 Ходорковский: Не представляю кто может быть хуже Путина 26:39 Ходорковский: Российское общество глубоко больно 31:04 Пастухов: Это война русского народа, а не Путина 35:24 Пастухов: Россияне хотят развлекаться, а не воевать 40:24 Ходорковский: Русский народ — это не путинский народ 44:01 Ходорковский: Кудрин, Чубайс и Греф — преступники 46:42 Пастухов об архитекторе, получившем 20 лет за пособничество фашизму 51:30 Ходорковский: Пособники Путина пытаются соскочить, не покаявшись 53:20 Смерть Макея: Ходорковский и Пастухов о Беларуси и Лукашенко 57:17 Ходорковский о роли личности в истории 59:21 В чем была ошибка Семьи Ельцина, назначившей Путина? Прошлый выпуск: ХОДОРКОВСКИЙ и ПАСТУХОВ: Путин загнал себя в расстрельный коридор. Национал-патриоты — угроза режиму https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBIq3WitBvQ ИНОЗЕМЦЕВ: Путин потратит на войну четверть бюджета. Кудрин и «Яндекс». Россияне экономят на еде https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGG897AcfeQ ШЕНДЕРОВИЧ: Военная повестка Путина. Подставные матери. Соловьев и бриллианты. Астрологи у Малахова https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXdTKQrvlg «Чисто конкретная политика» с Владимиром Пастуховым. Зима на фронте. Путин встретился с матерями. Срочники заменят убитых в Украине / Пастухов, Еловский https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CTArmuz8d4 Дмитрий БЫКОВ: Электроблокада, пленные, сердце ФСБ, Белгород, Пелевин и русские матери https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJuhFUCCn_4 КРУТИХИН: Тупик для потолка цен. $30 за баррель. «Лукойл» остается в ЕС / Труба https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTsN25PH-ZY Программа «ИЗНАНКА»: Секретные методички АП | Тиндер для мобилизованных | Госдума верит фейкам https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJFBi-KX-Q0 АСЛАНЯН: Путин просит цены уняться. Цены не хотят. Китайский «Москвич». Шпионаж за дальнобойщиками https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYHhkG3Sohk Валерий СОЛОВЕЙ: Для элиты Путин — лузер https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QksCkTLSTwo Блог Михаила Ходорковского: https://www.youtube.com/user/khodorkovskyru ============================= Плейлисты: ► Блог Ходорковского: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7kI1pJUZbs&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl4Grv-wza2qAaE322NcoK0c ► Ответы на вопросы: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGc56bUvs8&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl7VIGZSi0O6vmqGTNKnqb9Y ► Интервью с Ходорковским: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUpN6Si0hGl6NhQa9nhFk3E6bwAgml7yM ► Правозащита: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WjEvgt0tg&list=PLUpN6Si0hGl7aRDjrl1vICk3jXAjFtNtG Социальные сети: ► Twitter: http://bit.ly/MBK-Twitter ► Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser ► Telegram: https://t.me/khodorkovski ► Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser ► ВКонтакте: http://bit.ly/MBK-VKontakte =============================
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