Download "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru"
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi_webp%252FkXyNQTM6KFk%252Fmaxresdefault.webp&w=1139&q=75)
Similar videos from our catalog
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi%252F-vePqNma8yE%252Fmaxresdefault.jpg&w=1139&q=75)
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi_webp%252F1dB0fA2Tc70%252Fmaxresdefault.webp&w=1139&q=75)
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi%252Fx0Ylj7zG_tY%252Fmaxresdefault.jpg&w=1139&q=75)
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi%252Fx4PfrxiaZLE%252Fmaxresdefault.jpg&w=1139&q=75)
%3Aformat(webp)%2Fi.ytimg.com%252Fvi%252FVKWiEQuGBPY%252Fmaxresdefault.jpg&w=1139&q=75)
Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:18
let's start Mikhail Khodorkovsky on our00:00:21
air hello Mikhail Borisovich00:00:23
hello let's start with the elections th00:00:27
year some grief of public00:00:30
discussion is left behind met00:00:33
discussed everything is More understanding yes of00:00:37
course Well, in any case, I00:00:39
absolutely definitely have My colleagues on the00:00:42
anti-war committee rather there is everything,00:00:45
that is, I just don’t know, they haven’t told me everything00:00:47
yet,00:00:49
so there is an understanding that the00:00:53
company will go under the slogan of Putin,00:00:57
no, I don’t know how this will be00:01:00
implemented in the media in the media sphere,00:01:04
but in essence,00:01:07
all organizations have come to the conclusion00:01:11
that this is the most00:01:14
effective story to date related to00:01:16
counteracting those pseudo elections and the00:01:20
regime that is holding them.00:01:22
And here there are no differences, we are still00:01:25
thinking about how to act00:01:28
directly00:01:30
on voting day, but I think that00:01:34
some ideas will be found that our00:01:36
authorities will not like00:01:38
Micah Do you think it’s a promising idea for00:01:41
someone to try to00:01:42
register? Well, try to00:01:46
register here. In a practical00:01:50
sense, I don’t see. I personally don’t see such00:01:54
feasibility. Well, simply because00:01:56
in order to get a registry,00:02:00
it is necessary to coordinate this with the Kremlin,00:02:03
even in00:02:04
order to collect signatures in Russia. Well, to00:02:11
say, being oriented towards00:02:14
registration, this, of course, also00:02:17
needs to be coordinated with the Kremlin,00:02:19
otherwise, so to speak, those people who00:02:21
will do this will simply be imprisoned and,00:02:24
so to speak, the result00:02:28
will not be so significant at the same time, the very idea00:02:31
associated with collecting signatures for00:02:34
independent00:02:36
candidates for candidates whose slogan there is no00:02:39
Putin there is no war and this is one of those00:02:42
political actions that are now00:02:45
being considered by different groups and It is00:02:47
quite possible that in order to mobilize00:02:52
some of the supporters of these00:02:55
political groups this will be of00:02:56
interest. We agreed that00:03:00
we will try to help such initiatives00:03:04
Boris and collecting signatures for abroad for00:03:07
someone, how attracted are you to this idea,00:03:10
how interesting does it seem to you,00:03:11
this is also a way to00:03:14
realize how many people have left and how00:03:18
many of them have left, and at the same time they are ready00:03:21
to participate in some kind of political00:03:22
life of the country. Well, Anastasia Burakova, the00:03:25
Ark project Anti-War Committee, she is00:03:28
working on solving this problem together00:03:32
with her colleagues on the project on the00:03:34
first flight, they have been doing this for about a00:03:37
month now and it seems to me that in general00:03:40
this is quite a productive idea in order00:03:43
to00:03:45
consolidate some of our supporters00:03:48
who are abroad plus give00:03:50
some impetus to those young people who00:03:53
want to prove themselves as00:03:55
political figures. So in this00:03:58
sense, it’s a wonderful project, I’m00:04:02
looking at it with interest, you know, we00:04:05
just talked with Venediktov00:04:07
and two names were heard at the end of the broadcast:00:04:11
Yavlinsky and Nadezhdin, respectively.00:04:14
Maxim asked: Could Yavlinsky to become00:04:16
such a unifying figure for the opposition00:04:19
and Venediktov said that rather Nadezhdin00:04:22
and how do you look at these two names00:04:28
Mia Lensky is not00:04:48
Nadezhdinsky in the form of conducting00:04:52
anti-war without anti-war agitation,00:04:55
then in general this is not a00:04:58
candidate00:05:00
at all, but for the opposition at all that is, from00:05:03
this point point of view I don’t think this is00:05:06
too productive Well, I’ll00:05:09
say again the same way I00:05:11
responded to00:05:15
Medusa’s appeal who asked me00:05:17
about Navalny’s letter. I said that00:05:21
I’m ready to look for compromise solutions within a very00:05:23
broad00:05:25
framework00:05:27
in order to simply consolidate the opposition,00:05:31
so to speak, if suddenly00:05:34
which I personally don’t believe in00:05:36
and the opposition will decide that Yavlinsky is there or00:05:42
I don’t know Nadezhdin is a good candidate,00:05:46
this is a good idea. Well, I00:05:49
won’t put too much emphasis on it, so to speak, but I just00:05:51
have a doubt that this will happen,00:05:55
nevertheless, Mikhail Borisovich, what you00:05:58
said says that while you00:06:01
yourself, even for yourself personally While still in00:06:04
search of a strategy, this is not the case. I will00:06:07
repeat00:06:09
the strategy once again; it has been developed; no,00:06:11
Putin yes, but exactly How will this00:06:14
be good? The search for tactics Yes, but the00:06:18
search for tactics will continue at00:06:20
least at least until Putin is declared00:06:23
a candidate This is absolutely true because there00:06:26
is some kind of surprise between the opposition00:06:29
and the authorities and the authorities are looking at what00:06:33
steps we will take, we are looking at00:06:35
what steps they will take00:06:37
because in general, in many ways, we will be00:06:43
mean to each other in an attempt, they are trying to us00:06:59
tactical decisions will prevent them from being sued. But the00:07:02
main thing we agreed on,00:07:04
what unites us is, uh,00:07:08
demonstration to people, that’s our main00:07:11
task that we want to solve, is to00:07:13
demonstrate to people in Russia that00:07:16
they are actually against Putin, that’s a00:07:18
very funny psychological00:07:21
problem that we’ve encountered00:07:24
society in many authoritarian regimes00:07:27
and the most famous example is00:07:30
Romania with Ceausescu, when every00:07:33
single person in society is against the00:07:35
dictator, but he also thinks that maybe00:07:39
there are several people from his close00:07:42
relatives with whom he has the00:07:43
opportunity to talk openly; they are00:07:45
also against the dictator, but everyone00:07:47
else is for it and that’s why he00:07:50
doesn’t do anything. And to00:07:52
help people break through this00:07:55
information bubble created in connection00:07:58
with the fact that people are simply afraid00:08:01
to talk openly with each other because of00:08:03
repression. Or, more precisely, because of a00:08:05
demonstration of repression because00:08:07
for real mass repressions have not yet00:08:09
begun, so00:08:11
to break through this information bubble of00:08:14
every person is our task so that00:08:17
people understand that in fact, not only00:08:19
he specifically, not only his close00:08:22
relatives, not only his acquaintances00:08:24
in general, most people in Russia, even00:08:27
those you know, even those who fought for00:08:29
the war they are actually against Putin00:08:32
because, well, everyone is tired of Putin, that is,00:08:36
I think that his own circle is already tired of him,00:08:37
but it’s just that his00:08:39
own circle understands00:08:41
that for them these are the last00:08:45
happy months or years and they00:08:48
are striving for them. Well, maybe a little more... extend it a little00:08:50
But of course he does them all, how do you00:08:53
feel it Michal Boč how do you00:08:55
know this listen I, unlike those00:09:00
people who have to00:09:03
fear00:09:05
that something00:09:08
will happen to them, not only those who are in00:09:10
Russia often fear this, but also those who00:09:13
are abroad because in00:09:15
Russia I have relatives in Russia, friends,00:09:17
I want to go to Russia from time to time I am00:09:19
deprived of these problems That is, I do00:09:22
n’t know, so to speak, I probably might00:09:25
encounter a newcomer, but the rest does00:09:27
n’t really frighten me, so to speak, and stresses me out, so that’s how00:09:32
people are they talk to me00:09:36
quite openly because, well, I’m00:09:38
kind of a famous person, my00:09:40
relationship with Vladimir00:09:41
Vladimirovich is also well-known, so to00:09:43
speak, it’s clear00:09:44
that nothing leaks from me anywhere. That’s why00:09:49
I talk to a huge00:09:51
number of people00:09:53
both outside of Russia and in Russia, I00:09:57
’ll say that of course00:09:59
there are people who, even in a frank00:10:03
conversation, are supporters of00:10:06
Putin; many people who are00:10:09
supporters of war. Well, quite a lot,00:10:13
but these people who00:10:17
are supporters of Putin are radically00:10:20
fewer than even supporters of war. That00:10:23
is, if I can appreciate the people00:10:25
who say00:10:28
that you know war, of course we started Well,00:10:32
it was a mistake but now we can’t00:10:34
lose and so on These are the people in00:10:38
my information bubble, let’s say so00:10:42
wide enough among those living in Russia Well,00:10:45
probably half of them, but00:10:48
there is an understanding of how to break through this00:10:51
bubble, but I’ll finish the people and the people00:10:54
who say that well like Putin00:10:57
is cool and it’s good that he doesn’t stay Well,00:11:03
damn, I00:11:05
haven’t met him at all lately But like this a couple of months ago, well,00:11:09
there’s probably one or two,00:11:12
that is, it’s clearly less than00:11:15
10% But People don’t believe that this is so, people00:11:19
think that in fact others all for00:11:22
How to break through You know I am not the most00:11:25
talented make and not the most talented00:11:29
Vatel of political action I00:11:32
prefer that someone comes up with something00:11:35
And I will support this with the whole Proletarskaya for00:11:38
honesty Mikha Boriso you mentioned Ceausescu00:11:41
and his regime You know I was recently00:11:44
just at the film festival in Romania and00:11:46
got to know their current political00:11:49
reality better, there is such a Renaissance of love for00:11:52
Ceausescu,00:11:53
such things don’t upset you. Well, of00:11:57
course they upset you, listen, so to00:11:59
speak. And we have a Renaissance of love for00:12:01
Stalin, so to speak, a man who00:12:04
killed so many Russians, a00:12:07
man who Well, or at that time, the00:12:10
Soviet people were a person who, because of00:12:12
which, in fact, the war with Germany was00:12:17
not the strongest enemy, it should be00:12:19
noted that the country that 20 years before00:12:23
lost the world war was,00:12:26
as we would say today, under sanction for00:12:32
all these 20 years and00:12:34
now the fact that the war became so bloody00:12:38
for the Soviet Union Well, it’s absolutely00:12:41
clear to say that all historians00:12:43
agree on this. This is the result of00:12:46
Stalin’s heroic activity and people understand this,00:12:50
nevertheless,00:12:54
many people openly love him, here is the well-00:13:00
known well-known Stockholm00:13:03
syndrome, and it is passed on from generation00:13:06
to00:13:07
generation of Borisovich you Have you read Avin’s book during00:13:11
Berezovsky’s time? No, I haven’t read it. You know, I’ll00:13:14
say in a nutshell that many critics,00:13:16
including those who said that such a book is a00:13:17
winner About the vanquished, yes, because00:13:20
Peter Avin probably felt exactly like that at that moment.00:13:24
Now we see how representatives of the00:13:27
Alfa group are They also say phrases00:13:30
like we regret that we invested in00:13:32
Western countries and so on. How do you00:13:35
assess this situation? How do you see00:13:37
today what is happening to these00:13:39
oligarchs, as they used to say?00:13:42
Well, I have no doubt at all that Avin, compared to00:13:45
Berezovsky, is the winner00:13:47
This is00:13:50
absolutely so simple because he00:13:52
survived it and this, by00:13:54
the way, I hope will happen to everyone00:13:58
present on this program in00:14:00
relation to Putin We will all be00:14:03
winners I hope because we00:14:04
hope we will survive it,00:14:08
but in everything else Well, I think that the00:14:12
Alpha group00:14:16
and Peter Avin personally behaved in a rather00:14:20
traditional way. Here they are. Every time00:14:23
when faced with an acute situation,00:14:28
they tried to hide somewhere under a00:14:32
snag and in general, for the time being,00:14:36
it was a winning strategy. In00:14:39
fact, we must understand that songs are sung about the00:14:43
Brave Ones. the00:14:45
cowardly survive Well, now we see how this00:14:48
strategy did not00:14:51
work; it has not worked; we can00:14:54
already talk about it. Yes, we can of course00:14:55
say that it did not work, that00:14:58
is, we see00:15:00
the choice that they made was00:15:03
very difficult for them, both from the point of view00:15:06
of reputation and and from a00:15:09
financial point of view, it is obvious00:15:13
that, of course, they can, well, retain some00:15:17
opportunities because the accumulated00:15:21
resources in general are quite a lot, but I doubt00:15:24
that they have felt comfortable over the00:15:28
past two years and uh, but00:15:32
life goes on. you feel00:15:35
bad and ask them for a choice, what00:15:39
else could they have done to00:15:42
correct00:15:44
the situation? Well, here00:15:46
we have just apparently a00:15:49
conceptual discrepancy with them; for me,00:15:51
money has always been a tool, that is,00:15:53
when I was doing yuku som,00:15:57
it was important for me a lot of money because there00:16:00
were gigantic projects and they00:16:03
simply required a gigantic amount of money, but00:16:07
now I00:16:10
don’t have such projects of this scale. I00:16:13
mean production projects and,00:16:15
accordingly, I00:16:17
feel absolutely comfortable with much less00:16:20
resources. But my choice would be which I00:16:24
frankly I recommended them to you00:16:27
guys,00:16:31
you have00:16:33
enough money even if you leave everything00:16:35
you have in Russia, just leave00:16:38
everything And you have enough money, you are all not00:16:41
so young anymore Guys, but it00:16:45
will be easier on your soul, much easier because well, the00:16:49
same Friedman Well, I strongly00:16:53
doubt that he doesn’t have these00:16:54
spiritual ties with Ukraine. Surely he00:16:56
does because a person00:16:59
close to Friedman’s negotiations with00:17:01
Ukraine told how they went, roughly, in00:17:04
short, Friedman seems to be saying I’m00:17:06
ready to give00:17:08
10% and Ukraine answers him We’re ready to00:17:10
leave you get00:17:12
10% and in this sense, it’s as if the dialogue is not00:17:16
working, listen Well, first of all, he00:17:19
said they were talking about Ukrainian00:17:21
assets Yes, of course, about Ukrainian00:17:23
assets I would00:17:26
give all the Ukrainian assets to Ukraine, I just wouldn’t even00:17:27
bargain, just take away all the00:17:31
Russian assets I would just leave it,00:17:35
take it away please, we will sue00:17:37
later, but now00:17:39
take away what is00:17:43
abroad is quite enough for Friedman00:17:46
and enough for his team. I think that00:17:49
this is significantly more than a billion00:17:51
dollars for everyone there. Well, significantly00:17:53
more and Well, this money for a person who00:17:57
has already turned 60 there someone 65 Yes, well, that’s00:18:01
more than enough for the rest of your life,00:18:04
you just learned some kind of00:18:07
special Zen, you take away all the assets in this00:18:10
country, it sounds very00:18:12
wake-up Why why populist Well, here’s00:18:18
the wake-up Buddhist Well, I’m not you understand, we00:18:24
live Well, either for in order to leave00:18:27
behind some kind of trace00:18:30
or to get pleasure, but00:18:32
I don’t see any other motives00:18:37
here, not pleasure, not a decent00:18:40
trace Well, so to speak Well, what the hell00:18:43
then what the hell is this money for Well,00:18:46
I don’t know if he wanted They00:18:48
wanted to build the Cheops pyramid Yes,00:18:51
I don’t know or anything else and so to00:18:54
say I will do everything I will make any00:18:56
compromises but so I decided there I don’t know00:18:59
to develop Mars yes And that’s why I have these00:19:02
20 billion there Well here are the pitchforks how necessary00:19:06
because otherwise I wouldn’t have00:19:27
mastered Mars and didn’t care, but in order to00:19:34
leave not a billion after my death, but 20 billion, it’s still00:19:39
unclear who is there with the heirs, so to00:19:41
speak, who would really like to00:19:43
leave these 20 billion, it’s not so clear In00:19:46
my00:19:49
opinion I just can’t explain this to myself,00:19:51
but sincerely. It’s not because,00:19:53
so to speak, I have a bad attitude towards00:19:59
wealth or something, well, I00:20:02
can’t explain to myself, that’s when you take it,00:20:04
so to speak, and start serving00:20:07
money well, on the other hand, your00:20:10
opinion, I’m treating them fairly00:20:14
now, well, the concept of Justice in our00:20:17
world, I really don’t00:20:20
like it because it’s so00:20:23
blurry, from whose point of view is it00:20:26
fair?00:20:35
by you Yes, they are00:20:39
not under bombing, so to speak, so this is00:20:42
unfair. Well, someone else00:20:45
decides whether what is happening to00:20:48
them is justified. Well, yes, it is justified because it is difficult to sit00:20:51
on two chairs in conditions when00:20:53
such a severe discrepancy occurs. on the00:20:59
one hand, the barricades00:21:02
want you to make up your mind, so to speak, on the00:21:05
other side, and when you sit in00:21:06
the middle, bullets fly with you to the00:21:08
sides. Well, yes. Therefore, what is happening is00:21:11
absolutely justified. I wish00:21:14
they were spoken to differently.00:21:16
Well, yes, in a sense, I would like that00:21:19
Yes, it seems to me00:21:21
that if you want to offend00:21:23
the rules and00:21:27
say the rules,00:21:29
then you agree, so to speak, then00:21:32
you get00:21:35
some00:21:37
dividends, if you don’t comply with these rules,00:21:39
then you don’t get them. I’m generally a supporter of00:21:41
such legal certainty, I00:21:44
said this many times in the West to all00:21:47
politicians and in general they00:21:51
heard me, but I don’t I can say that this00:21:56
found 100% support for00:21:58
one simple00:21:59
reason:00:22:02
too much politics. Well, in general, like me,00:22:05
of course, we understand how high the00:22:08
probability of corruption is and people are simply00:22:12
afraid to get involved with the00:22:15
definition of some rules for00:22:19
big money. Well, because they are afraid that00:22:21
they will be in some way- then they will blame Well, in the end,00:22:24
in fact, I hope that these rules00:22:28
will still be developed, but well, yes, there are no rules, well, yes, I00:22:33
would have to take a risk, I would have to00:22:36
say that I’m on this side of00:22:38
the Barricade Yes, people, I’m ready to00:22:42
say so, I don’t care I’ll have to00:22:44
suffer because I didn’t do it there00:22:46
on the first or second day after the00:22:48
start of00:22:49
the war. Well, I’ll suffer, that means I’ll suffer,00:22:52
I’m counting on the fact that the Armed Forces won’t00:22:58
take away my approach. I’m still sure that it’s not that the Armed Forces00:23:02
wouldn’t take away almost00:23:04
nothing except that is in00:23:08
Ukraine00:23:09
But people said We need guarantees Well,00:23:14
who will give you guarantees during the war00:23:19
Bori Yes, come on, if you want00:23:26
to ask this00:23:28
question, the fact is that the reaction of the Western00:23:32
world to what is happening in00:23:34
gas in general is quite different00:23:37
from how it reacted for example, the00:23:39
Russian Democratic00:23:41
public, I see the judgment that00:23:45
those who call themselves liberals, those who00:23:47
call themselves democrats among the Russian00:23:49
oppositionists turned out to be, in general, to the00:23:50
right of00:23:52
Netanyahu in their rhetoric, in your00:23:55
opinion Mich, why did this happen? Well, I don’t00:23:58
know in relation to Netanyahu’s right I00:24:01
now I hear the Republicans in America,00:24:04
they quite00:24:07
take a position on this topic that is understandable to me.00:24:12
But in general, I00:24:18
think this is a00:24:22
problem: a society that has lived for a long time00:24:25
without war, this is a problem: a society00:24:29
whose political representatives00:24:32
graduated from good schools and universities00:24:36
and have not lived not only in Third00:24:41
World countries but in general even in the bad neighborhoods of00:24:45
your own cities, you00:24:47
talk like that as if it’s something00:24:49
bad, that’s what I wanted to get to00:24:52
exactly, you’re asking the absolutely correct question,00:24:54
on the one hand, it’s very good, it’s00:24:56
possible00:24:59
to be kind, sweet terms,00:25:04
and wonderful with them. Very nice it’s a pleasure to talk to them and it’s a00:25:06
pleasure to do business with them, so to speak, they will00:25:10
always think about making sure that you do00:25:14
n’t feel uncomfortable and the like, everything is00:25:18
great until00:25:20
some00:25:21
Putin or some Hamas appears,00:25:25
a war begins, and at that moment these00:25:28
wonderful people find themselves00:25:31
absolutely not during the World Cup00:25:35
because their entire expression of opinion is00:25:40
in words Well how can it be people00:25:44
Well how can it be so Well what you00:25:46
are doing is great I say00:25:49
I and people do it I00:25:53
saw this many times in my childhood and saw it many times in my youth00:25:55
as an adult, but since00:25:58
you haven’t seen it, you don’t know what to do in this00:26:00
situation. But I know, I know that00:26:02
when you meet in alleys where there00:26:06
are never any police with that00:26:09
scumbag, then your only chance is not to00:26:13
leave beaten, robbed, so to speak, and00:26:16
God forbid if you ended up there with a girl.00:26:18
Yes, your only chance is to00:26:24
brutally beat the first of them, any of them,00:26:28
and beat them like that,00:26:30
so that your teeth are in different directions and, if00:26:36
possible, inflicting things on him, in00:26:39
this case you have a chance And in00:26:41
VM in all in other cases, Well, I feel00:26:45
very sorry for you, and this is a00:26:50
lack of understanding of the existing situation, it00:26:54
leads to the fact that00:26:58
Americans are now in the world in this00:27:01
world of ours, the Third World. And we are now00:27:03
firmly in this very Third World considered00:27:06
weak, and since we are weak, this does not00:27:10
mean as in good school no00:27:15
bunga00:27:17
hating pat no If00:27:21
he is weak he is00:27:26
SB00:27:28
and what is now the USA Rich and weak from the00:27:32
point of view of public perception Yes, it00:27:35
leads to all these00:27:37
events that began00:27:40
to roll around the world and at some point the00:27:43
number of these hooligans will become like this00:27:45
that this healthy [ __ ]' [ __ ],00:27:49
who the00:27:51
United States actually is, simply can't stand it,00:27:53
it just won't stand it, and the United00:27:56
States has a huge part of its well-being,00:28:00
it exists due to Freedom of Foreign00:28:03
Trade, Freedom of Movement of People, Ideas00:28:06
of Capital, and so on That is, the whole world00:28:08
Naturally C this benefits if we00:28:10
now00:28:26
pull back from globalization and we will lose 30% of our00:28:29
well-being, but the Americans00:28:33
will lose more. Well, simply because00:28:35
they have a larger economy00:28:37
and they are more dependent on foreign trade.00:28:41
I’m not convinced that this is the00:28:45
dream that they have. then they00:28:48
understand it, someone doesn’t00:28:50
understand it in Europe,00:28:54
Eastern European countries00:28:56
understand it naturally, but00:29:00
only old people understand such traditional Western European countries,00:29:03
so I was here when I was in Germany I00:29:06
met there00:29:09
with such a very respected audience where we00:29:13
were there00:29:15
representatives of various organizations, so00:29:18
to speak,00:29:20
from newspapers00:29:22
to the Ministry of Defense, so to speak00:29:26
Well, there was such a wide circle of experts and00:29:29
among them there was one person00:29:32
such an00:29:35
obvious representative of the Cold00:29:39
War, he was the only one in the audience00:29:42
who didn’t have to00:29:44
explain anything, we were just absolutely on the00:29:47
same wavelength, he understood everything00:29:51
perfectly, just like me and everyone else. Well, alas, that’s why00:29:56
when I look at wonderful00:30:00
people who00:30:03
talk about how they00:30:08
would like to see how they00:30:13
love Hamas, how they say it, Well, how is00:30:17
it really, this is what they00:30:22
stand for they00:30:23
defend different values, they were also00:30:26
tortured, and so on And now, well, they00:30:28
were simply forced to become00:30:32
terrorists, but I have00:30:36
such an attitude towards this, you know,00:30:38
and it’s00:30:40
a bit harsh, that is, I have a simple question,00:30:43
can it be done purposefully for political purposes,00:30:47
not by chance? It’s00:30:53
easy to purposefully kill children.00:30:56
You have some kind of goal,00:30:58
no matter how good it is, important, so00:31:00
to speak. Come and cut off the head of a child.00:31:04
Well, that’s what was done in Israel.00:31:07
And if you think it’s possible, well, what to00:31:10
talk about on this, we have to disagree00:31:14
And and00:31:16
and probably until you00:31:20
try to implement it or help00:31:23
the one who implements it. Well, I will00:31:25
just consider you a brute,00:31:27
and if you implement it or00:31:30
help the one who implements it, well, I00:31:33
will do everything possible so that you cease to00:31:35
exist. Well There’s probably00:31:37
another00:31:39
way to explain ourselves in a00:31:42
situation where people don’t understand such a00:31:45
simple truth that it’s impossible to purposefully00:31:47
kill children for political purposes.00:31:50
Well, there’s probably no other way.00:31:53
These people are pretending.00:31:57
That is, their support for Hamas is somehow00:31:59
separate from the seventh. Well, I’ll say it again00:32:02
so far they are not doing anything practical in this00:32:06
direction. I am ready to just00:32:09
count them as cattle.00:32:12
And with cats, either in the bad00:32:15
sense of the word, so to speak, or with cats00:32:17
that have no brains, you know, there are00:32:20
cattle with brains. Yes, there are cattle without00:32:22
brains. Well, so to speak.00:32:27
when they00:32:28
come they move on to practical00:32:30
implementation, here I have00:32:32
an understanding that this is probably a beast that00:32:35
has gone mad and we must somehow00:32:39
try to isolate it. Well, even inside00:32:42
Israel, Mikhail Borisovich, there are people00:32:44
who naturally in no way00:32:46
deny the horror of October 7, but they say that00:32:48
well carpet bombing when there00:32:51
are also children there is not the most correct00:32:56
answer That’s when people say00:33:01
that there are some more effective00:33:05
ways that can save the00:33:08
lives of civilians in the Gaza Strip when00:33:13
people criticize their generals for00:33:16
not finishing something to save the00:33:19
lives of people in the Gaza Strip I mean00:33:22
peaceful people, I really00:33:25
welcome I think any normal00:33:28
person very much welcomes this kind of00:33:30
talk, moreover, knowing my friends00:33:33
who live in Israel, I am absolutely00:33:36
convinced that for them these incidental00:33:40
casualties are a tragedy and that Despite the00:33:45
fact that they are now in the heat of war and are00:33:48
uttering various terrible words,00:33:50
nevertheless, tomorrow, when this is all over, and00:33:53
help will come from Israel to the Gaza Strip,00:33:57
Israel will be involved in restoring00:33:59
housing for these people, Israel will00:34:01
help Palestinian children,00:34:05
say to restore normal life in00:34:08
general, I In this sense, I am absolutely sure there is a00:34:13
high00:34:27
pressure than they could apply, it is00:34:30
absolutely correct, it needs to be00:34:32
done in this sense, the responsibility of the00:34:35
residents of the Gas Strip and the responsibility of the00:34:39
Russians are00:34:44
the same. To our deep regret Well, it’s00:34:47
probably difficult00:34:50
It’s difficult to draw direct analogies But of00:34:53
course some analogies suggest themselves to the00:34:55
deep00:34:58
Unfortunately,00:35:02
today we see00:35:05
bombings in Belgorod or Kursk. Well, there00:35:08
were drone strikes there,00:35:13
and we say that yes, Ukraine should00:35:17
try to hit only military00:35:20
targets. Well, we say the same thing with00:35:22
regard to Israel in the gas sector, that00:35:25
Guys, you should try to00:35:30
reduce the number as much as possible.00:35:33
victims among the civilian00:35:36
population But to say that Ukrainians do not00:35:40
have the right to defend themselves in this way Well,00:35:42
probably being of sound mind and sober00:35:45
memory is impossible and Yes, you understand00:35:48
that if you lived there or your00:35:51
relatives lived there, then you00:35:53
could also fly in. Well, like Well,00:35:58
yes, you are on the territory of a country00:36:01
that started a war and continues00:36:04
the war against a neighboring country. Well, it’s clear00:36:08
that they will defend you and it’s clear that00:36:10
if you are on this territory,00:36:12
they can fly to you. And if you00:36:14
are not on this territory, like you and00:36:16
me, then that’s all for you it can still arrive,00:36:18
but not in the form of shells or00:36:21
missiles, but in the form of the fact that the fact that you have a00:36:25
Russian Russian passport00:36:27
is big today even for a00:36:32
person like me or you, whose anti-war00:36:36
position is widely known. And if, so to00:36:39
speak, our faces were not flashed00:36:42
Yes, like the majority of Russians, the00:36:45
attitude would be even worse, so at least00:36:48
one of us remembers,00:36:51
but we remember that although you are Russian, you are00:36:53
someone who, so to speak, is actively against the war. Of00:36:56
course, this is how to say this. This is00:37:00
just like in your first question in the first00:37:03
topic is not good but00:37:05
fair00:37:07
Mikha Yes, if you continue this topic00:37:10
you want, I about Continue I just wanted to00:37:12
clarify How did it happen in your opinion00:37:14
that when all this happened,00:37:17
well, we didn’t hear the call for all00:37:19
Palestinians to be punished, to block the accounts of00:37:22
all Palestinians not to accept them passports, how did it00:37:25
happen that it00:37:27
could be00:37:30
worse? Well,00:37:32
because we, first of all, this didn’t happen right away.00:37:37
If we00:37:39
remember right away, this didn’t happen;00:37:42
it still started a few00:37:45
months later, almost six months later of the war,00:37:48
and at first people, too, in the first months, it00:37:51
was impossible to open accounts already in00:37:53
the first months Well, listen, I always thought it00:37:57
was not so easy00:38:00
to open it00:38:02
to the Russians, yes00:38:04
yes Well, in this case, we cannot00:38:07
say that00:38:11
Palestine is Well, or the Gaza Strip00:38:15
is a warring state, everyone00:38:17
understands perfectly well that there is a00:38:20
terrorist organization Hamas Yes,00:38:22
it gained power there00:38:25
in the Gaza Strip, but nevertheless, its people00:38:29
still separate it from the population of the00:38:31
Gaza Strip. Well, this is fair, in fact,00:38:34
Okay, Mikhail Borisovich, I can00:38:38
go straight inside Russia.00:38:41
And we not so long ago saw raids on00:38:44
mosques, then we saw how in fact00:38:47
the whole region is being forced to00:38:50
apologize to a fifteen-year-old00:38:52
teenager, I’m talking about Ramzan00:38:54
Kadyrov’s son and Tatarstan, respectively, I don’t00:38:56
know if Dagestan can now be put on a00:38:58
par with all this happening,00:39:00
but I remember a year ago Maxim here00:39:02
can correct me, approximately you were in00:39:04
broadcast and we said that there are00:39:07
discussions about the collapse of Russia. You00:39:09
said that you consider such discussions to be00:39:11
harmful and not useful. You still00:39:13
think so. Yes, of course, I still00:39:15
think discussions about the collapse of Russia are00:39:18
harmful and not00:39:20
useful for two reasons, the first00:39:24
reason is because that This is still not true00:39:27
today, still as I00:39:31
said then and as it is written in my00:39:33
book How to Kill a Dragon, that Russia still00:39:36
tends to break off00:39:39
at the edges, and the North Caucasus is00:39:40
still breaking off at the edges, but does not00:39:44
have the same situation regarding the00:39:48
collapse Well, the indigenous ones What is called00:39:50
Russia This is a question of terminology, but do you00:39:52
agree that these processes show00:39:55
that as if Cavani some kind of00:39:57
movement is brewing, of course, of course, that00:40:00
is, the bankruptcy is the ideological00:40:04
bankruptcy of the federal center that00:40:14
got involved. And it is necessary Do00:40:17
they need such a Federal center?00:40:20
This is absolutely certain. And if this00:40:24
discussion gains momentum,00:40:27
then in this situation it is clear that as long as there is00:40:32
a dictatorship in the country, nothing will happen.00:40:34
But when democracy arises in the country,00:40:37
at that moment the accumulated00:40:40
inertia can tear the country apart and this00:40:46
is a big problem of the legacy00:40:48
that Putin will leave another00:40:55
Deca for today, I still don’t see it, but00:41:01
I am firmly convinced that if Putin remains00:41:03
in power for another00:41:05
10, God forbid, 15 years, it will end with the00:41:10
collapse of the country. But in 5 years, the risks00:41:17
will increase significantly today, the risks of collapse the country00:41:20
in00:41:21
the event of a regime change does not exist, there is essentially a00:41:25
round-up at the edges, that is,00:41:27
some Kadyrov00:41:29
received in general, so I sometimes read, so to speak,00:41:32
what is happening in my native country.00:41:35
What decisions does the Kremlin make? I have00:41:37
the feeling, so to speak, that I am dealing with00:41:39
violently insane people. Yes, they took the Prigozhinskys transferred00:41:42
weapons in00:41:56
the year the story from Chechnya then with the Chechen00:42:00
war of ninety-three, it began00:42:02
exactly with the fact that the warehouses with00:42:05
weapons remained on the territory of00:42:07
Chechnya and there is nothing to say that it was00:42:10
not so much transferred there;00:42:12
weapons were transferred from from regiment to division I do00:42:15
n’t know exactly Naturally how much but00:42:17
this is quite enough for00:42:25
Kadyrov’s legal training to begin there; enough military equipment is transferred there so that00:42:30
later, taking into account the fact that Putin gives this00:42:34
Tribute from 5 to 10 billion dollars every00:42:37
year to Kadyrov, so to speak.00:42:40
And so that, taking into account the corruption that exists00:42:44
today there is And against the backdrop of hostilities00:42:48
there turned out to be more than one launcher there,00:42:50
10 more than one00:42:54
air defense system, 10 of these anti-aircraft systems in00:42:58
general. It is deeply regrettable that what00:43:00
the Kremlin is doing is naturally pushing the00:43:05
North00:43:07
Caucasus to00:43:19
break away, which in general the prospects for00:43:21
it are not very good and of course he will00:43:24
try to maintain power00:43:26
over his00:43:29
territories, seize00:43:31
others’, and how it will all end. In general, it’s00:43:34
not completely obvious to me. Well, because00:43:36
I’m not an expert on the North00:43:39
Caucasus. But I have a lot of my00:43:42
friends who are from there and with whom00:43:45
I’m currently working. they really00:43:48
tell me a lot that the porridge there in general can00:43:52
be quite scary. And in this00:43:55
sense,00:43:56
what happened in Dagestan, many00:43:58
draw a parallel with the Prigozhinsky00:44:03
question, but00:44:05
such incidents play into the hands of the00:44:13
opposition, you know what the00:44:17
matter is, Well, there are different types of opposition, there are00:44:23
certain types opposition who say, well,00:44:26
there will be a Bolshevik coup. Let them00:44:29
then have to restore00:44:36
order with Fire and sword, well, the main thing is that the00:44:41
main thing is that we get the main thing that we00:44:44
get power and in general this is this for00:44:50
us, this is good for us, this00:44:54
suits the position to which I00:44:58
consider myself, which says that the main thing is00:45:02
not to Kill the dragon Killing the dragon in00:45:05
general is actually not so difficult Yes, he00:45:08
will die soon the main thing is00:45:12
not to become a dragon yourself because then it00:45:14
will lead to a new Circle of blood for many more00:45:18
decades and then we sri kae shat00:45:24
ky00:45:26
into the dragon a What steps lead to the fact00:45:30
that at the next stage00:45:33
this regime will be replaced by democratization,00:45:35
and from this point of view,00:45:38
any interethnic conflicts that00:45:41
have turned into such a plane of00:45:43
pogroms, they00:45:45
naturally do not lead to any kind of democracy after00:45:48
this regime, and from this point of00:45:51
view, opposition to00:45:54
it For example, communicating with these00:45:58
wonderful guys who are00:46:00
now passing under such a slightly funny label in00:46:03
relation to Russia. In my opinion, it’s00:46:06
funny as00:46:28
the need to preserve languages,00:46:30
the need to preserve00:46:32
culture,00:46:34
and I think that this discourse in this00:46:37
part is absolutely00:46:39
correct and the conversation with these people is00:46:44
normal. Maybe deal with those people00:46:46
who say Well, we’ll just00:46:48
wait until Putin weakens and we’ll immediately00:46:53
say all the Russians, they call00:46:56
all non-indigenous nationalities00:46:58
on their territory Russian, they’ll00:47:05
cut them off, they’ll00:47:08
cut them off, I haven’t heard such formulations00:47:11
from anyone, so to speak, I’m probably a little bit00:47:15
now I translate into a00:47:19
more understandable plane the words that we00:47:22
held00:47:24
a vote,00:47:26
but at the same time we will not allow00:47:28
anyone to vote except representatives of indigenous00:47:31
peoples. And who is indigenous and who is not indigenous,00:47:34
we will apparently measure the skulls Well, because there is00:47:36
someone who is a quarter indigenous,00:47:39
someone who is half indigenous, someone who is 1/8 means00:47:42
we will measure the skulls, but apparently00:47:45
it is implied that the remaining 70 will remain00:47:49
silent and then calmly give up their00:47:51
property and dump it somewhere beyond the00:47:54
horizon. Well, no, I’m speaking honestly then,00:47:57
and right away we’ll figure it out for them, we’ll00:48:01
cut them off, it’s called, or they’ll run away,00:48:05
leaving theirs behind property Or we00:48:07
will cut them off Well, what can I say to this, well,00:48:11
try Mikhail Borisovich, I admit, for about00:48:14
20 minutes now I can’t get rid of these00:48:18
rhymes that suddenly arose you00:48:21
told about the gateway And who should you beat00:48:24
if they fall on you and this00:48:26
resonates so much with the words of Putin and his00:48:30
lessons in the St. Petersburg gateway, what if00:48:32
a fight is inevitable, hit first, and in this00:48:36
sense, you are somehow either stylistic or00:48:41
ideological, and what is surprising in this case?00:48:45
But we all have a00:48:50
very clear experience, and Putin00:48:54
has it, and I have it There are,00:48:58
fortunately, fewer of our children,00:49:01
and then our whole difference00:49:04
lies in the following:00:49:07
I don’t consider this experience to be good and I consider it00:49:11
as necessary as possible00:49:15
from this experience. Well, how to protect the future with00:49:24
good things,00:49:26
achieve his goals in the shortest possible time,00:49:29
or, in general, achieve these goals and he00:49:32
starts using it. For example, I00:49:34
think the00:49:35
use of obscene00:49:38
language on the screen, so to speak, is bad, I guess it00:49:41
sometimes breaks out for me too. But I00:49:43
think it’s bad, even though00:49:45
I’m not an official and he, being the00:49:50
president, started his presidency with this00:49:52
Yes and I can’t say that he00:49:55
did it by accident, but you know, sometimes it00:49:56
broke out Yes, the person in this case00:49:59
specifically set the line of behavior00:50:03
in this00:50:04
sense, that’s the difference exactly in this Yes, we00:50:08
all came from the same gateway But I00:50:12
believe that the next generation00:50:14
should not live in the gateway and now he doesn’t00:50:18
need to push him there, on00:50:19
the contrary, but then it00:50:23
begins. Well, do you want to remember the gateway?00:50:26
Well, I’m ready. Remember the gateway, so to00:50:28
speak. I’m quite ready to answer in00:50:31
the language of the00:50:33
gateway. Isn’t it possible that as00:50:35
soon as he moved the Conversation into this phase, he00:50:39
seemed to have won not conversation in general00:50:41
interaction That is, as soon as we00:50:43
begin to respond with the same methods, it’s00:50:46
as if we are playing his game, no, that’s not00:50:50
true, if you meet a00:50:53
gangster with gopniks in the gateway, then of course you00:50:56
can try to talk to them in a00:50:58
high calm manner and get hit in the face, so to00:51:00
speak, so to speak your girl will get hit00:51:03
in the face, so to speak, you will be robbed there and humiliated,00:51:06
but you will, so to speak,00:51:10
feel that you have not dropped to their00:51:12
level. Or00:51:14
you can00:51:16
fight and drop to their level00:51:19
to show that, so to speak, a good00:51:21
education also means martial arts skills00:51:25
and better than00:51:29
theirs you have better weapons and you00:51:32
can fight no less00:51:34
brutally But then, coming out of this00:51:37
gateway Yes, let him be a little00:51:45
splashed, you have to tell yourself But00:51:47
now, as I told you about Izra00:51:54
s, the opportunity to be a normal00:51:57
person again I called an ambulance because00:52:00
that’s where these freaks are lying there, but00:52:02
after all, they are people too Yes,00:52:05
and you shouldn’t leave them without help Yes,00:52:08
maybe they should be imprisoned But you should00:52:10
n’t leave them there to die, so to speak00:52:12
Yes, they left that’s the00:52:17
difference Ira, you’ll add something about this00:52:21
I I’ll just00:52:24
ask the last question then, because we00:52:26
literally have 1 minute left until the end of the broadcast. Mikhail00:52:30
Borisovich, we’re finishing up. Yes, according to this00:52:33
ring composition, the twenty-fourth00:52:36
year, March of the twenty-fourth year, this is00:52:39
now the most important00:52:55
thing, but probably from the point of view of00:52:58
such planned practical work Yes00:53:02
today preparation for00:53:12
delegate I just don’t want to call00:53:15
elections because people mistakenly00:53:17
have the feeling that they are00:53:19
elections in which they can00:53:22
change the government by voting or something like that.00:53:24
I want these illusions to be so yes,00:53:27
probably today from the point of view00:53:29
in terms of planned work, this is the most00:53:32
accessible goal for us, although you and I00:53:37
understand that at any moment something much more important can00:53:40
arise in the current situation.00:53:44
Thank you very much, this was Mikhail00:53:46
Khodorkovsky, let me remind you that00:53:48
you can find a transcript of this conversation on the website e00:53:51
fml if If you00:53:54
don’t have one in Russia, then you can always00:53:57
find a link to a fresh mirror in the Echo FM group.00:54:00
Thank youDescription:
Поддержать Живой гвоздь: с карт российских банков https://pay.cloudtips.ru/p/7edd7c0e с карт иностранных банков https://www.donationalerts.com/r/zhivgvozd Boosty: https://boosty.to/zhivoygvozd Криптокошелёк: bc1qmdt96xvsun9a8qxvgakfx9gqy4x72penx5rm2p Trust Wallet: https://link.trustwallet.com/send?address=bc1qmdt96xvsun9a8qxvgakfx9gqy4x72penx5rm2p&asset=c0 Готова ли оппозиция представить стратегию на выборах в 2024 году? Могут ли Григорий Явлинский или Борис Надеждин объединить оппозицию? Смогут ли они вообще стать участниками выборов? Почему в России наблюдается ренессанс любви к Сталину? Что происходит с путинскими олигархами? Почему некоторые российские либералы оказались «правее» Нетаньяху в отношении войны с ХАМАС? Ответственность россиян и жителей сектора Газа — одинаковая? Почему простым палестинцам, например, не заблокировали карты в Европе? Насколько возможен распад России? А откол крайних территорий? И может ли погром в Дагестане сыграть на руку российской оппозиции? Всё это и многое другое в Утреннем развороте Максим Курников и Ирина Баблоян обсуждают с общественным деятелем Михаилом Ходорковским* @khodorkovskyru. Подписывайтесь на телеграм-канал Ирины Баблоян: https://t.me/IrinaBabloyan Подписывайтесь на Максима Курникова в соцсетях: https://t.me/kournikov https://twitter.com/kmvir Подписывайтесь на Михаила Ходорковского* в соцсетях: https://t.me/khodorkovski https://twitter.com/mich261213 * — Михаил Ходорковский признан российскими властями иностранным агентом Новый — пятый том комикса в серии «Спасти» уже в продаже! На этот раз авторы попытались вызволить из Тауэра наследников внезапно скончавшегося английского короля Эдуарда IV. Купить: https://diletant.shop/tproduct/596598185-351029717571-kniga-spasti-printsev-iz-tauera-tom-5 📌 Живой гвоздь в аудиоформате: https://podcast.ru/1616175210 🔔 Последние новости и анонсы программ с YouTube-канала «Живой гвоздь», а также контент от наших постоянных гостей и экспертов на официальном телеграм-канале: https://t.me/livegvozd Мобильное приложение "Эха": любимые программы в формате радиоприёмника. Простой интерфейс. Работа в фоновом режиме. Расписание эфиров. Скачать: в AppStore: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/%D1%8D%D1%85%D0%BE-online/id1639907671 в PlayMarket: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=online.echofm.app Сайт "Эха": https://echofm.online/ (если не открывается – ссылка на рабочую версию сайта всегда есть в тг-канале ЭХО FM https://telegram.org/ Подписаться на Youtube-канал Дилетант: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuIE7-5QzeAR6EdZXwDRwuQ?sub_confirmation=1 Магазин Дилетант: https://diletant.shop/ По вопросам взаимодействия: [email protected]
Preparing download options
* — If the video is playing in a new tab, go to it, then right-click on the video and select "Save video as..."
** — Link intended for online playback in specialized players
Questions about downloading video
How can I download "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru" video?
http://unidownloader.com/ website is the best way to download a video or a separate audio track if you want to do without installing programs and extensions.
The UDL Helper extension is a convenient button that is seamlessly integrated into YouTube, Instagram and OK.ru sites for fast content download.
UDL Client program (for Windows) is the most powerful solution that supports more than 900 websites, social networks and video hosting sites, as well as any video quality that is available in the source.
UDL Lite is a really convenient way to access a website from your mobile device. With its help, you can easily download videos directly to your smartphone.
Which format of "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru" video should I choose?
The best quality formats are FullHD (1080p), 2K (1440p), 4K (2160p) and 8K (4320p). The higher the resolution of your screen, the higher the video quality should be. However, there are other factors to consider: download speed, amount of free space, and device performance during playback.
Why does my computer freeze when loading a "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru" video?
The browser/computer should not freeze completely! If this happens, please report it with a link to the video. Sometimes videos cannot be downloaded directly in a suitable format, so we have added the ability to convert the file to the desired format. In some cases, this process may actively use computer resources.
How can I download "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru" video to my phone?
You can download a video to your smartphone using the website or the PWA application UDL Lite. It is also possible to send a download link via QR code using the UDL Helper extension.
How can I download an audio track (music) to MP3 "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru"?
The most convenient way is to use the UDL Client program, which supports converting video to MP3 format. In some cases, MP3 can also be downloaded through the UDL Helper extension.
How can I save a frame from a video "Стратегия оппозиции на выборах 2024. Ходорковский*: Утренний разворот / 03.11.23 @khodorkovskyru"?
This feature is available in the UDL Helper extension. Make sure that "Show the video snapshot button" is checked in the settings. A camera icon should appear in the lower right corner of the player to the left of the "Settings" icon. When you click on it, the current frame from the video will be saved to your computer in JPEG format.
What's the price of all this stuff?
It costs nothing. Our services are absolutely free for all users. There are no PRO subscriptions, no restrictions on the number or maximum length of downloaded videos.