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00:00:00
greetings, friends. Today we are back in Kharkiv,
00:00:04
not so far from the Russian border, where
00:00:09
military operations are currently taking place. The difference between Kyiv and
00:00:13
Kharkiv now is that
00:00:17
when the air alarm sounds in Kharkiv,
00:00:20
it means that there has already been a flight somewhere, because it takes
00:00:23
about 40 seconds to fly here from Russia to
00:00:25
Kyiv. the difference is that someone
00:00:29
can still manage to hide behind
00:00:33
me, my house is destroyed, we are on Saltivka, there are
00:00:37
dozens of them here, and it seems that
00:00:40
life has stopped here, just silence, silence,
00:00:44
people used to live here, rioting,
00:00:46
children's playgrounds, now everything is compressed, it
00:00:51
brought the
00:00:53
Russian peace,
00:00:55
here we will introduce you to by many
00:01:00
people who, despite this huge
00:01:05
tragedy,
00:01:06
continue to serve Jesus Christ
00:01:10
in Kharkiv,
00:01:12
despite this pain and huge
00:01:15
tragedy. We believe that God is present in
00:01:18
all of this and God opens some doors
00:01:21
for the church, shows it new opportunities, what
00:01:26
can we do in this tragic time.
00:01:30
So we offer you such a short
00:01:32
trip to meet people in the Kharkiv region
00:01:39
[music]
00:01:41
Kharkiv This is my first trip to this city
00:01:45
since the beginning of the war,
00:01:47
at first glance everything looks quite
00:01:49
good on the streets, the streets are crowded and the
00:01:53
car is working, the metro is working, the
00:01:54
picture becomes different when you drive to the
00:01:57
outskirts of Saltivka there are no solid ruins
00:02:00
around Kharkiv from the Russian side. Almost no
00:02:03
surviving buildings. Of
00:02:06
course, it was very dangerous to be here in the first days of
00:02:08
the war. At first,
00:02:11
the Russians even partially entered the city, that is why many
00:02:14
people evacuated,
00:02:18
including many believers.
00:02:20
Some churches left completely, led by
00:02:23
many pastors. ministers, but there were also
00:02:27
those who remained, I wonder what they
00:02:29
were going to do here What are they doing today, a
00:02:32
year and a half after the start of the war
00:02:34
How has the church changed during this time, what will it be
00:02:38
after the war, and
00:02:41
this is exactly what our
00:02:43
conversation with the panther, who remained and still
00:02:48
continues to carry out the ministry, will be about today in the city of Kharkiv
00:02:51
today we are visiting pastor
00:02:55
Oleksandr Vyanov Oleksandr you
00:02:58
wake up on February 24th I understand what the
00:03:02
explosions mean and what decision you make
00:03:07
at that moment as a father as a
00:03:10
pastor as a Ukrainian
00:03:12
actually started to make decisions A little
00:03:15
earlier on Monday I held a
00:03:18
meeting with of the church council,
00:03:20
where we discussed in extraordinary order
00:03:24
what should be prepared in case of events that
00:03:28
may happen, which actually happened,
00:03:31
and on Tuesday morning I sent my
00:03:35
family to relatives in Rivne,
00:03:38
realizing that it will surely be
00:03:40
more dangerous here in case everything
00:03:43
starts. Well, that's how it was Therefore,
00:03:45
when I woke up on the 24th in the morning, my task
00:03:49
was somewhat easier than that of others,
00:03:52
I did not have to take care of my family. Here I had to
00:03:56
buy about the school of which
00:04:00
I am the founder.
00:04:12
parents that there will be no classes, that everyone must
00:04:16
take certain measures for their own safety
00:04:21
in the church, we warned that
00:04:24
those who have the opportunity to somehow
00:04:27
protect themselves must take the necessary
00:04:31
measures, that's
00:04:32
all, I stayed here,
00:04:37
tell me, did you feel, did you understand that there would be
00:04:41
a war, did you feel that if Did you make a
00:04:45
decision to stay or did you think it would depend on the
00:04:48
situation? Did you make a firm decision, I
00:04:49
still stayed, I did not make a
00:04:51
decision to stay in any conditions for an
00:04:55
indefinite period,
00:04:57
for example, I was not ready to live under
00:05:00
occupation, well, frankly, I will tell you
00:05:02
from the other side.
00:05:06
I'm in Kharkiv, Mom,
00:05:08
I understand that these are my responsibilities. I
00:05:11
somehow bought them, although the first time I did
00:05:14
n't even have the opportunity to get to her, because
00:05:17
she is on the other side of the city, there is
00:05:20
no transport, and so on,
00:05:22
and secondly, about 20% of my money remained,
00:05:26
let's say parishioners whom I had to
00:05:30
somehow take care of as a pastor,
00:05:34
well, and thirdly, I didn't have such a
00:05:39
decisive,
00:05:43
let's say, such a need or decision,
00:05:47
I didn't feel that I had to take in order to
00:05:52
leave urgently if you felt in the
00:05:56
first days of the war
00:05:58
that filled with emotions probably the main
00:06:02
emotion was the food.
00:06:04
I never considered myself a superman there, a
00:06:10
person there, there was some kind of strong spirit there, so
00:06:17
it was scary even. I remember that there
00:06:22
was a night when the
00:06:26
Russian aviation was particularly active, they dropped bombs,
00:06:29
when you hear a plane flying over
00:06:32
your house, you don't know for sure where will he drop
00:06:34
your cargo? I mean, wow, it was
00:06:38
very scary and I
00:06:42
woke up and said, Lord, I'm not
00:06:45
asking myself to die, but I'm definitely starting to
00:06:48
understand the people who did it because
00:06:51
living in such a stressful state for a long
00:06:55
time, I'm sure I won't be able to A you heard some kind of
00:06:59
word from God and some kind of support from
00:07:02
him all the moments during these times I did not
00:07:05
have any special such revelations,
00:07:07
but
00:07:10
after the same night that I just
00:07:13
mentioned,
00:07:14
one of my friends called me.
00:07:17
Maybe even you know him, this is
00:07:19
Oleksiiev
00:07:20
Denys Ananat from Kyiv, by the way,
00:07:24
asked how I was doing.
00:07:26
I said no one was doing well,
00:07:30
and he asked me
00:07:32
whether he had the right to leave or not. I said that for the
00:07:36
time being I feel it
00:07:38
necessary to stay here. Although there
00:07:42
is some fear, I had
00:07:46
opportunities to leave.
00:07:49
Kharkiv, where an
00:07:52
incredible number of people had gathered for an
00:07:54
evacuation, I had the opportunity to
00:07:57
simply leave by car,
00:08:00
comfortably and quickly,
00:08:03
but
00:08:07
internally.
00:08:20
moment
00:08:23
It was a phrase
00:08:26
more dangerous place where we can
00:08:28
be this place where the Lord puts us
00:08:33
and
00:08:34
[music]
00:08:36
then I couldn't at all and I don't really
00:08:39
like to pay attention to any omens
00:08:42
but I dress to go out we are not
00:08:45
a jacket
00:08:47
Well of course a Chinese jacket is warm
00:08:49
winter, which means that on the inside of
00:08:54
this jacket, the
00:08:57
label label
00:08:59
named the company, the company is called
00:09:10
Protex,
00:09:13
maximum maximum protection,
00:09:16
and I’m also thinking about something, Lord Mykola. We
00:09:19
think that you and I can talk
00:09:20
through my jacket, well, in fact, that’s how it turned out.
00:09:24
Even on Facebook, he gave me such a look
00:09:27
hit it
00:09:30
and somehow God was changing your heart during
00:09:34
those first days of the war and then how he
00:09:36
worked on your heart the first days I
00:09:39
was generally in a state of stress I'll be
00:09:43
honest I found it very difficult
00:09:45
even to read the Bible
00:09:48
[music]
00:09:49
even my prayer Well I was not
00:09:52
satisfied
00:09:55
Probably what was happening to me Something
00:09:58
like there in the 8th chapter of the Epistle to the
00:10:00
Romans when the prayer was without words, at
00:10:04
this time it seems to me that God
00:10:07
helped me overcome the first stress,
00:10:11
returned me to the process of thinking, I began,
00:10:17
well, at least to formulate certain questions for myself,
00:10:21
there are some
00:10:24
different questions the questions were questions about
00:10:28
how to make a decision, a
00:10:30
decision about staying,
00:10:33
leaving,
00:10:35
how
00:10:37
to deal with emotions
00:10:40
at the time,
00:10:43
emotions that seemed to me the most important,
00:10:46
onions, emotions
00:10:48
of fear, emotions of guilt, I did
00:10:54
n't do something, I didn't have time to do something,
00:10:57
in addition to scrolling through a hypothetical
00:11:00
scenario in my head, for example, If I left
00:11:04
And by the way, the question Why didn't I leave, I
00:11:09
sometimes say I chose this path when they
00:11:12
tell me why it's easy because it's
00:11:14
more difficult for me I think it would be better to overcome the
00:11:17
feeling of guilt that I left someone here while
00:11:20
being somewhere on the sidelines than to overcome the
00:11:23
situationally arising feeling of exhaustion,
00:11:26
that's why I said that
00:11:28
I at that time, it was easier to deal with the
00:11:31
sign than the deeds,
00:11:34
it covered the feeling of hatred very strongly, but I did not think
00:11:39
that it was
00:11:40
something completely unacceptable for me and I
00:11:43
understood that it
00:11:45
[music] was an
00:11:47
actual emotion at the time, I do not consider
00:11:52
it as a norm in the long term,
00:11:54
but at that time was an assessment of the evil that
00:11:58
fueled us, the emotion of sadness,
00:12:01
such a decline, an
00:12:03
emotional
00:12:05
decline, cheerfulness, hope,
00:12:09
a struggle with such a feeling, with no way out,
00:12:12
self-pity,
00:12:16
well, as a question about how to manage
00:12:18
emotions, it became an urgent
00:12:21
question about
00:12:24
how to evaluate oneself and how to
00:12:28
evaluate others,
00:12:30
because Well you know that the
00:12:33
initial days are not so, not only the
00:12:35
initial days
00:12:36
were popular phrases from the Bible from the book of
00:12:40
Solomon that
00:12:42
one group of people chose a golden verse
00:12:47
intelligent sees disaster and hides
00:12:52
and there was another
00:12:55
Let's say this community that chose for
00:12:58
itself the right brave like that Lion
00:13:02
people who started in Kharkov, they considered
00:13:06
themselves brave, which, well, it is conditional, it is
00:13:09
conditional because
00:13:11
And those who left, they were as if they were so
00:13:14
smart because they were hiding,
00:13:15
and well, I understand that certain stereotypes were raised,
00:13:21
those who stayed saw themselves as heroes. And
00:13:26
you who went there were weak traitors,
00:13:28
those who left on the contrary, they considered themselves
00:13:31
intelligent, those who stayed here, well, they are a little
00:13:36
lacking in reason, but in fact that other
00:13:40
paradigm was also distorted and there were
00:13:43
many different, let’s say, factors
00:13:47
that determined both the
00:13:50
reasonableness and unreasonableness
00:13:54
of the move, as well as reasonableness, the
00:13:56
reasonableness of the decision to stay
00:14:01
is a question How to evaluate yourself to
00:14:03
evaluate others
00:14:08
had questions about
00:14:11
what God actually teaches us, well, in these
00:14:14
conditions, in some places the question is as follows: what did
00:14:18
God show these days, how did he work with the
00:14:21
church, what turned out to be the first thing that God
00:14:24
showed that we have to form a
00:14:26
completely new experience,
00:14:29
because we in life, responding to any - what
00:14:32
situation we rely on a
00:14:35
certain awareness certain experience of
00:14:40
reacting in Let's say similar
00:14:45
situations in relation to the one
00:14:47
we met with
00:14:50
we had no experience before life during
00:14:52
the war it was a completely new experience and I
00:14:56
understood that to form this experience we
00:15:00
needed at least time,
00:15:05
secondly,
00:15:08
personally I
00:15:11
[music]
00:15:13
let's say I was so
00:15:16
worried about the question of what to do
00:15:17
here and now, I understood In general
00:15:21
I like
00:15:22
stability
00:15:24
I like long-term planning and I
00:15:29
felt very helpless the first days
00:15:32
because I
00:15:33
could only think about what to
00:15:37
do today,
00:15:44
good advice He He said that if you want
00:15:48
to feel better, go. Just check
00:15:50
our elephants. Churches do
00:15:52
n't all go to communion. We didn't have communion on the
00:15:55
first day. We didn't have meetings.
00:15:58
Let's start the Bible. Pray with them. I just
00:16:10
walked there. to our grandfathers and grandmothers there,
00:16:12
I visited them because most of them
00:16:15
remained from such an older generation.
00:16:18
Although there will be
00:16:22
generations left, they
00:16:28
asked questions about how to
00:16:31
function, survive, adapt
00:16:34
to the
00:16:35
events that happened,
00:16:39
and there were such simple things as keeping
00:16:44
in touch with people, visiting people to
00:16:48
talk, to exchange one's thoughts and
00:16:51
feelings, to
00:16:54
encourage, to pray together, to
00:16:57
share the resources that are available, yes, I
00:17:00
had potatoes in the cellar, I shared them
00:17:04
with those who did not have them, especially since in the
00:17:07
first days in Kharkiv, all
00:17:09
shops and supermarkets were closed, and it
00:17:12
was difficult to simply buy food anywhere
00:17:16
it is possible to come to us from Saltivka,
00:17:19
it was very hot in the district, he
00:17:22
suffered more from shelling and there
00:17:27
was such a thing. For example, I personally
00:17:29
received people at home, let them spend the night and
00:17:31
somehow
00:17:33
gather their thoughts and emotions
00:17:36
about how to proceed,
00:17:40
such simple things,
00:17:42
plus
00:17:44
I even before war during the covid had such an
00:17:49
experience of
00:17:50
holding a
00:17:51
meeting in Zuma for church members. Well,
00:17:55
when there was a quarantine, I resumed this practice
00:17:59
in order to encourage my brothers and
00:18:03
sisters. By the way, we
00:18:06
did various things there. The Gospel of
00:18:08
John, we read,
00:18:11
we analyzed the book of Edward depression. There are
00:18:14
many interesting things. Let's say this. algorithms, what
00:18:19
can be done in order to somehow benefit
00:18:22
yourself, what do you think about those ministers
00:18:24
who nevertheless left
00:18:27
Kharkiv and left,
00:18:30
what was the mood of the church in relation to
00:18:33
this? And if we look at the future, what do you
00:18:36
think the return should be like
00:18:39
Nothing happened or should to be, well, some
00:18:42
steps to the surface.
00:18:45
I would say that there
00:18:48
are different contexts in which this happened,
00:18:52
for example, there was a context when the church was
00:18:57
nameless, there was a context when the Church
00:19:01
Practically 100%
00:19:03
all went to
00:19:07
different cities, villages, some in Ukraine,
00:19:10
some even abroad,
00:19:13
including the minister left, do
00:19:18
they continue to have any relationship with each other or not?
00:19:20
I don't know, but there are simply no
00:19:24
people left here who could give an assessment to the
00:19:26
minister regarding his decision to leave,
00:19:28
so I
00:19:30
know another situation when almost the entire
00:19:33
church together with the minister moved to
00:19:37
another city to the west of Ukraine
00:19:40
were there for a long time to
00:19:44
serve regularly return here
00:19:46
came to visit the part that
00:19:49
remained here And to date they have
00:19:51
practically all returned This is a different law there
00:19:56
was a situation when,
00:19:58
let's say,
00:20:00
to serve not to stay for a certain time but his
00:20:03
family was abroad and he had
00:20:06
Let's say yes, the legal right to leave, and
00:20:10
since he is not the only minister of the
00:20:12
church, he simply informed the Church
00:20:15
Council of his decisions to
00:20:18
go to his family for a certain time now with
00:20:21
plans to return later. When it will be
00:20:24
successful, we will know later because there have been
00:20:27
cases of, let's just say, spontaneous
00:20:31
departure without any explanations or
00:20:35
comments, that is, well,
00:20:37
the situation is different,
00:20:41
I cannot say that I have an unequivocal
00:20:46
assessment of the
00:20:48
decision to leave taken by the minister
00:20:52
in the format of condemnation or approval,
00:20:57
because on the one hand I understand that the
00:21:00
minister is also a person, and a person has
00:21:03
feelings about that including the feeling of fear,
00:21:06
the ability to overcome these feelings.
00:21:10
I know that it was not easy for me to influence them even
00:21:13
today. Well, God gave
00:21:17
me the opportunity to stay,
00:21:20
why. By the way, the
00:21:24
decision to leave the family before the start of a
00:21:27
full-scale war contributed a lot, but I, for example,
00:21:30
lose in my understanding of the situation
00:21:32
if this did not happen, hypothetically, I
00:21:36
leave with my family, let's say there from point A
00:21:40
in Kharkiv to a point in Ukraine,
00:21:43
and then I want to go back and the family
00:21:45
says I'm
00:21:47
sorry there, dad, husband, we are not ready to
00:21:51
stay without you, what decision will I make,
00:21:53
I don't know God simply saved me from the
00:21:55
need to make such decisions
00:21:58
But
00:21:59
I think, let's just
00:22:02
say this,
00:22:06
this is my feeling of how it was right.
00:22:09
If I still made a decision, they would leave as
00:22:13
soon as possible.
00:22:22
having made this decision and
00:22:25
probably included the patristic
00:22:27
authority because,
00:22:29
first of all, in order to
00:22:33
be a pastor for people, we have to live with them,
00:22:36
share a common life with them, as I
00:22:38
say that the church is on a TV that can be
00:22:40
remotely controlled,
00:22:43
secondly
00:22:46
[music]
00:22:48
well let's put it this way, I would certainly not have
00:22:52
the moral right
00:22:54
[music]
00:22:56
to fulfill my partner duties
00:22:59
living in safety at a time when people
00:23:01
live in a
00:23:04
completely different set,
00:23:07
and how about me, I would probably do something like this,
00:23:12
which of the brothers did something similar and did
00:23:15
n't do it I don't know
00:23:18
for sure, I allow for the possibility of the
00:23:23
resumption of
00:23:25
pastoral ministry
00:23:27
by those who left and then intend to
00:23:31
return, but you understand that it will be
00:23:33
difficult, is it
00:23:37
fair or unfair, is it
00:23:39
right, wrong according to Christians
00:23:42
according to Christians, but
00:23:44
as you know in that joke when we
00:23:47
say that we found spoons but the evaluation is
00:23:51
unpleasant remained Yes Well, people have
00:23:54
experienced
00:23:56
difficult times and to what extent are they ready
00:24:00
to trust and
00:24:02
connect their expectations of spiritual, let's
00:24:06
say, pastoral guidance with a
00:24:09
person who was not ready to go through
00:24:12
these trials with them. I'm not saying that it's
00:24:14
impossible, but at least it will be difficult
00:24:19
again - there are different cases and I know. Well,
00:24:23
I have a friend with whom for a long time the subjects are not the
00:24:27
same movement. I have two familiar
00:24:30
ministers
00:24:31
who left the cities that were occupied in the
00:24:35
Kharkiv region
00:24:37
and enlightened homes were destroyed. the
00:24:51
thinking of the church, whichever one you belong to in
00:24:54
this time of war,
00:24:56
positive changes and negative changes.
00:24:59
Can you characterize them,
00:25:00
returning to the thesis about the
00:25:03
lack of experience of
00:25:06
living life in war conditions,
00:25:12
this applies not only to an individual person
00:25:14
or to individual families, let's say this, this
00:25:20
phenomenon also includes the church there
00:25:26
were certain
00:25:30
challenges
00:25:32
for which we were, let's say,
00:25:36
incompletely prepared,
00:25:39
what was the
00:25:41
perception of war as such,
00:25:45
let's say,
00:25:46
part of the people perceived it as a
00:25:54
certain norm
00:25:57
in the context of those
00:26:01
biblical stories that speak of God
00:26:04
's judgments on humanity
00:26:07
and, let's say,
00:26:11
the position of these people, she mostly
00:26:14
emphasized the
00:26:16
fact that the war is God's conversation with the
00:26:19
Ukrainians, that the Ukrainians should
00:26:20
repent and so on.
00:26:22
Personally, I partially agreed with this
00:26:27
point of view, that is, I definitely believe that
00:26:29
the war is an element of the events, let's
00:26:33
say, described in the New Testament as
00:26:36
events of the last time and really
00:26:39
called for repentance always in the conditions of
00:26:41
war, the madness of war, including the
00:26:44
Ukrainians
00:26:45
[music]
00:26:47
on the other hand, I considered war as a
00:26:50
crime
00:26:53
that our neighbor in quotation marks dared to do.
00:27:00
I asked war as a possible tool with the
00:27:04
help of which God will
00:27:06
carry out a whole series of plans,
00:27:09
in particular, a change in mentality,
00:27:13
in particular Let's say the
00:27:16
destruction of those
00:27:20
remnants of the fundamental Soviet
00:27:22
past that
00:27:25
continue to operate in the minds of
00:27:29
many Ukrainians,
00:27:31
it is
00:27:34
possible to
00:27:36
bring to some logical end
00:27:39
the process of the collapse of the Soviet Union, which
00:27:44
slowed down on one sixth of the
00:27:47
land,
00:27:50
that is, God has different plans,
00:27:55
including bringing us closer to God,
00:27:58
opening a church we have opportunities for
00:28:00
service, that is, here there are
00:28:02
different sides of
00:28:08
this perception. Let's say that we felt a certain
00:28:10
tension, tension due to the
00:28:13
difference in views and assessments,
00:28:17
relatively speaking, a
00:28:21
certain part of the people
00:28:23
refrained from categorically negative
00:28:27
condemnations of the Russians,
00:28:30
called for an
00:28:33
observed reaction to their crimes,
00:28:38
there was a logic in these calls for us to
00:28:42
approve hatred to call us there
00:28:45
to love our enemies
00:28:48
and so on. The other part of the church was
00:28:53
determined, let's say, to
00:28:55
share
00:28:57
with the people among whom we live and
00:29:01
whose parts we are
00:29:03
its pain and suffering
00:29:06
and, accordingly, sympathizing with the victims of
00:29:09
Russian aggression, to condemn
00:29:11
Russian Greece itself.
00:29:13
If it were not it looked
00:29:16
unspiritual, let's say so, there
00:29:19
were certain tensions on the basis of the language
00:29:23
issue,
00:29:24
for example, not
00:29:26
everyone, let's say so, definitely liked
00:29:30
my decision to come to the Ukrainian language
00:29:33
because it was more convenient for some to just hear
00:29:37
the Bible in Russian,
00:29:38
although
00:29:40
you know I look at the fact that many families,
00:29:45
including from our church, left
00:29:47
abroad and they quite quickly master the
00:29:49
German language, the Polish language, the Spanish
00:29:52
language, the English language,
00:29:54
the French language, even those who at school
00:29:57
there did not
00:29:59
show high abilities in terms of
00:30:02
linguistics,
00:30:04
but for some reason the Ukrainian language is difficult, but
00:30:07
we have lived there for 20 years, and the
00:30:10
jawbone has been growing there for a long time, you know all
00:30:13
these specific reasons, that is, on this
00:30:17
basis, we had certain questions, for example,
00:30:19
such songs should be chosen for glorification for
00:30:21
worship, what should be
00:30:24
the ratio, let's say, a
00:30:27
Russian-language song familiar to us and a
00:30:30
Ukrainian language, there
00:30:32
were questions about weapons, there were questions about
00:30:35
what is permissible, permissible Tacifism,
00:30:38
militarism, there were questions about
00:30:42
Let's say yes,
00:30:45
options,
00:30:46
as you know, became Bender said that he knows
00:30:49
about 100
00:30:51
plus or minus honest ways of making
00:30:53
money. Yes, we had there about 100
00:30:55
honest ways of going abroad.
00:30:58
Questions about the perception of news, look,
00:31:02
don't look, who to believe, who not to believe,
00:31:06
what should be the dosage of perception
00:31:09
[ music] the
00:31:15
attitude again towards those who left and
00:31:18
those who stayed
00:31:19
[music]
00:31:21
then this was the question
00:31:23
[music]
00:31:25
and
00:31:27
to do By the way, as they say,
00:31:33
from the point of view of pedagogy, any
00:31:35
situation is an educational situation, that's right,
00:31:37
we
00:31:40
adopted the document certain in the church where we
00:31:44
fixed our position as a church
00:31:47
council
00:31:48
on the issue of our understanding of war and
00:31:51
ask our understanding of weapons and on the
00:31:53
issue of our understanding necessarily
00:31:54
regarding the
00:31:56
defense of the state which is provided for by
00:31:59
the constitution and the issue will stop there
00:32:02
new and the issue of emigration all these issues
00:32:05
we fixed
00:32:08
this document we adopted the document first of the
00:32:11
church council, then it
00:32:14
was made public at the church membership meeting
00:32:17
and they said that
00:32:20
in order to prevent any divisions,
00:32:24
discussions, fights without rules.
00:32:37
let's say this step, this certain
00:32:42
unification of
00:32:44
views, finding a
00:32:46
common denominator, so to speak, it helped What
00:32:49
doors for service the Lord is opening
00:32:53
today for the church, in particular in Kharkiv,
00:32:55
what was not done before, what can you do
00:32:58
now
00:33:00
Well, we are more obvious answer This is
00:33:03
helping people,
00:33:05
at least in terms of satisfaction
00:33:09
their physical needs are
00:33:12
meant there humanitarian
00:33:14
aid
00:33:16
[music]
00:33:19
support for people who are looking for a
00:33:23
certain inner support and come to
00:33:29
church services
00:33:31
come to our home group
00:33:35
Although I will say Yes I am far from euphoric here
00:33:40
Why Because we already have experience yes so to
00:33:43
speak, similar work with people
00:33:45
before the beginning of the full-scale invasion,
00:33:48
when
00:33:52
quite a lot of people from Donetsk and
00:33:55
Luhansk regions came to Kharkiv [music] and we had
00:33:58
weekly meetings where up to 100 people came,
00:34:01
of which only a few
00:34:05
church members remained and so on, I understand as
00:34:13
Thomas Watson once said, it seems to me,
00:34:16
beware of the promises that are made during the
00:34:20
storm, because they disappear during the style.
00:34:42
to serve these people
00:34:45
now,
00:34:47
and in addition, today we are actively
00:34:50
setting up, we understand that, let's say, the
00:34:54
wave of
00:34:56
the need to take care of physical
00:35:00
needs, it has now passed such a powerful
00:35:03
wave, there are definitely different situations,
00:35:05
different people, but there is no such global problem,
00:35:10
but there is a need to serve such a
00:35:15
point
00:35:17
detection of specific people with a specific,
00:35:21
let's say, traumatic experience
00:35:24
that was acquired either as a result of a
00:35:28
disaster experienced or as a result of the loss of a
00:35:31
loved one, loss of home,
00:35:34
job, etc. a
00:35:52
view
00:35:56
of
00:35:58
what people live with and how it can be
00:36:00
done. In this regard, we are
00:36:04
trained in our organization.
00:36:07
Last week, there was a training session at
00:36:10
member meetings. there is
00:36:16
no
00:36:20
need to react to
00:36:21
various such things, I actually read
00:36:26
the literature on this
00:36:28
Let's say about these issues
00:36:31
and today we are thinking about creating on the
00:36:34
basis of the church such, I would say, a center for
00:36:37
providing spiritual emotional psychological
00:36:41
support to people who
00:36:44
suffered already knew certain, let's say,
00:36:48
May as a result of the war, this includes
00:36:52
including the families of the military, the military themselves,
00:36:56
I cannot say that we have progressed far
00:36:59
in this direction, but
00:37:01
if you consider that
00:37:05
most people have certain
00:37:07
individual connections, including with
00:37:09
people in the army, I have more than a dozen
00:37:11
such people, with whom I personally
00:37:15
I maintain some contact and, well, the collection
00:37:20
is a perspective. In your opinion, people have become
00:37:23
more open, or has
00:37:25
little changed? I can’t say
00:37:29
unequivocally that people have become more open,
00:37:31
and in general. Well, maybe it’s such an
00:37:36
economic opinion, but it seems to me that
00:37:38
war does
00:37:40
not always change people, it
00:37:43
rather
00:37:44
exposes their innermost parts and
00:37:48
gives
00:37:49
at least the opportunity to see better and deeper the inner world of a person during
00:37:52
the period when a person is in a
00:37:55
critical state,
00:38:03
but let's put
00:38:06
it this way, a person's readiness for change is
00:38:11
not always directly proportional to the
00:38:15
degree of external pressure
00:38:19
that a person feels,
00:38:23
there are changes I see
00:38:27
Among my brothers and sisters these changes,
00:38:30
that is, a change in believing people, I see in
00:38:35
some people
00:38:37
who simply come to us for
00:38:40
worship or whom I meet there,
00:38:42
although they are not church people, I see
00:38:45
certain changes, a shift for the better,
00:38:50
but I see its reverse process, I also see
00:38:53
indifference, so to speak, the absence
00:38:56
of changes and I see negative changes. I mean, for
00:39:00
example, the schedule of families there, when the
00:39:06
family that was one whole until February 24,
00:39:11
today no longer exists in this format
00:39:14
because
00:39:17
either the man here found another woman,
00:39:20
while his family is abroad or
00:39:23
a woman has found herself nothing husband Well,
00:39:27
unfortunately, there are examples and
00:39:29
such, too,
00:39:32
looking ahead, what kind of future awaits Well,
00:39:34
in particular, Kharkiv, which will never become the
00:39:38
same as before, how long will
00:39:40
our so-called
00:39:43
faint positive changes be enough
00:39:46
[music]
00:39:48
oh, I'm afraid I'll
00:39:50
become an expert prophet
00:39:54
yes and
00:39:58
I think I
00:40:02
will repeat my opinion about the
00:40:04
slow pace of mental changes. It
00:40:09
seems to me that
00:40:11
this recovery is
00:40:15
mental and spiritual after, let's say, the
00:40:18
post-communist
00:40:20
legacy, it will continue for a long time.
00:40:24
And although the process of
00:40:28
prolonging the war is written that or
00:40:32
even started
00:40:35
in some aspects, on the other hand,
00:40:38
I once preached to the Church on the
00:40:42
first message to the horse, chapter 10, where it is
00:40:46
said that the
00:40:48
events of the exodus were, so to speak,
00:40:53
images for the
00:40:55
modern church, and my sermon
00:40:59
was called How should we live after the war?
00:41:10
Israel
00:41:13
because it is the
00:41:14
suffering party and we are not preparing for
00:41:18
Pharaoh and we see that this is the main problem
00:41:23
and so to
00:41:25
speak,
00:41:28
overcoming this problem will bring
00:41:32
real freedom and a bright future for
00:41:36
Israel, but the passage through the Red
00:41:40
Sea that solved the problem Let's say
00:41:45
oppression by Pharaoh and threats from the
00:41:49
pharaoh
00:41:50
showed that the most interesting thing is just
00:41:52
beginning
00:41:54
and this is the most interesting thing, in particular
00:41:57
if we take this text from the
00:42:00
first Corinthians 10 chapter, then there
00:42:03
stands out the problem of
00:42:05
idolatry, that is,
00:42:09
false values ​​that continued and
00:42:12
found to carry their souls.
00:42:25
music]
00:42:27
wrong, inadequate attitude towards
00:42:30
your neighbors, using them instead of
00:42:33
serving her, and the problem of complaining, the
00:42:37
internal problem of dissatisfaction,
00:42:39
ingratitude, the language of forgetfulness, and I.
00:42:53
yes,
00:42:57
we will observe the parameters to a greater or lesser extent after
00:42:59
the war, including in Ukraine,
00:43:02
including in Kharkiv, including, but it is
00:43:04
about
00:43:07
whether God will be the highest value for us
00:43:12
[music],
00:43:13
greater than the task of survival, greater than the
00:43:17
task of, say, building up there of our
00:43:22
national identity and so on.
00:43:25
Why you are God is really the greatest value,
00:43:28
they are very concerned about
00:43:30
how much we will be able to do to our
00:43:32
neighbors.
00:43:46
mercy and be grateful to
00:43:49
God for it instead of complaining that it
00:43:52
used to be like this before, but before
00:43:54
it was like this, do you remember We flew to
00:43:58
Turkey, Egypt, do you remember we
00:44:01
had such a park there and there was such a market and
00:44:06
Barabashov they
00:44:09
will only complain about something. What are your personal
00:44:12
dreams for the future?
00:44:32
I want the church
00:44:36
to be a
00:44:38
community of people who passionately love God
00:44:41
and love their neighbors. I want the church
00:44:45
to delve into the Holy Scriptures.
00:44:48
By the way, we are interesting, not so much as we
00:44:53
have to go home somehow, but otherwise they
00:44:56
will be just a dream, well, let's say that, fantasies,
00:44:59
and not a vision of the future, for
00:45:03
example So, in order for
00:45:06
us to unite and deepen the word of God,
00:45:10
I proposed such an
00:45:14
algorithm of actions for this year as a pastor, so that we
00:45:21
simply during the year 10 books from the Bible
00:45:23
together in what format
00:45:26
I developed
00:45:28
for Well, first of all, we selected these books taking into
00:45:31
account the context in which
00:45:33
we are The
00:45:35
book of Genesis, the book of the beginning of this in order to
00:45:39
understand for us still, so to speak,
00:45:42
eternal
00:45:44
primordial guidelines, the book of Exodus as a
00:45:47
struggle for freedom, for identity, to
00:45:51
serve God, not Pharaoh, the
00:45:54
book of yoga, a textbook on suffering, the book of
00:46:01
Ecclesiastes, the search for meanings, the book of the
00:46:06
story of Solomon as guidelines for
00:46:09
wisdom for acceptance of decisions The
00:46:11
Gospel of Matthew
00:46:13
as a
00:46:15
discipleship textbook The book of the mute as a
00:46:19
book of restoration
00:46:21
and to the Romans as the Gospel of understanding
00:46:24
The Gospel and the flower Revelation as a book
00:46:29
that is, so to speak, watery from the understanding of
00:46:31
global processes,
00:46:33
including us, they are waiting for us somewhere, we are already in
00:46:36
them, something They are looking for, and what are
00:46:40
we we did for
00:46:44
each book for each chapter of the book
00:46:49
and a list of questions from 4 to 10
00:46:53
and we know the church chat in Viber
00:46:56
every morning we send these questions so that
00:46:59
everyone or an individual or a family
00:47:03
circle can reflect, well, it is not
00:47:06
questions
00:47:07
and then
00:47:09
these 7 chapters that we went through week
00:47:12
we will discuss in the format of a zoom conference
00:47:16
on Sunday evening where you can ask
00:47:18
questions where you can discuss even
00:47:21
in such a way that we as a church rally
00:47:25
around God's word
00:47:27
because
00:47:30
war is such a process when,
00:47:35
let's say,
00:47:37
internal discipline weakens
00:47:40
and well, I understand that there
00:47:44
are certain as they say the theological means
00:47:47
of grace that must be used in
00:47:49
order for the church to be alive, nothing new.
00:47:52
I do not reveal this for sure, the word of God,
00:47:56
the preparation of new ministers,
00:47:59
the search for, let's say, a
00:48:04
qualitative replacement of the existing team of
00:48:08
leaders,
00:48:10
this is not just a process, in fact, but we have
00:48:13
also started it.
00:48:16
I would say that it is also a certain certain
00:48:19
steps towards it, unfortunately,
00:48:21
friends, it is still dangerous to live in Kharkiv.
00:48:24
But despite the mortal danger and a
00:48:27
crazy neighbor, the
00:48:29
Church of Christ lives and develops here, and the
00:48:32
pastors are serving. Today, we have a
00:48:35
unique opportunity to inspire the church to
00:48:39
new achievements and new growth.
00:48:42
This can happen. thanks to the example that the
00:48:45
ministers of the church will show, an example of
00:48:48
faithfulness, dedication and zeal, this is exactly what the
00:48:52
members of the church want to see in their
00:48:54
pastors, the ministry of the panther has always been
00:48:58
difficult and also dangerous, and not only
00:49:02
during the war, but today, like
00:49:04
never before, we were able to see and
00:49:07
understand who we really are in particular, as
00:49:11
pastors,
00:49:13
I would like to advise, so to speak,
00:49:16
colleagues in the shop, pastors, to look at everything
00:49:20
that happened in our lives precisely
00:49:22
as pastors during these one and a half years of war,
00:49:25
to look at it as a certain exam, an exam of
00:49:29
real pastoring, a kind of test of
00:49:32
endurance that the Lord God arranged for us
00:49:35
on this occasion, in his
00:49:37
first epistle, the Apostle Peter writes the following
00:49:41
words: Beloved, do not be surprised at the fire. What do
00:49:46
you have for your trial, as if it were
00:49:50
some extraneous event,
00:49:53
but rejoice because you are partakers of
00:49:56
Christ's patience, so that
00:49:59
you may rejoice and be glad in the appearance of His glory.
00:50:03
how to find a biblical
00:50:05
justification for one or another of your
00:50:08
actions, whether to stay
00:50:11
or to evacuate and
00:50:14
later emigrate, you should ask yourself an
00:50:17
honest question and answer
00:50:20
it yourself a question of such a plan if through this
00:50:24
war God arranged for us believers a
00:50:27
difficult exam of a kind the test for
00:50:30
Testing our character, how many
00:50:32
points according to the 100-point
00:50:35
evaluation system did we score when taking the exam
00:50:39
to obtain the certificate of a real
00:50:42
shepherd
00:50:45
70-80-90 100 points
00:50:48
how many serious mistakes were made
00:50:50
during this and this question is relevant both for
00:50:54
those who left and for those who
00:50:56
stayed
00:50:58
at the same time, we should be honest about
00:51:01
three points: firstly,
00:51:03
how many points do we evaluate ourselves,
00:51:07
secondly, how much does the church to
00:51:11
which we returned or which we did not even
00:51:14
leave evaluate us, and thirdly, how much do we evaluate our
00:51:17
activity as pastors under these circumstances,
00:51:23
let me ask if you As a pastor, I
00:51:26
wonder what the church in
00:51:30
which you serve or that
00:51:32
you left as a pastor thinks about you. I wonder if you have
00:51:35
heard what people say about you or do you
00:51:39
care? Pay attention to Jesus Christ,
00:51:42
being God who knew everything in advance, who
00:51:46
knew everything that people thought about nevertheless, he
00:51:49
asked his disciples about what
00:51:52
people think about him in the Gospel of
00:51:56
Mark, the eighth chapter, we read the following
00:51:58
words: after that, Jesus and his disciples went to the
00:52:02
village of Saria Philipova, and on the way he asked
00:52:06
his disciples, telling them who do
00:52:08
people think I am. They answered speaking to him
00:52:11
for John the Baptist, the second for
00:52:15
Elijah, and the others for one of the prophets,
00:52:19
Christ wanted to hear the opinion of the disciples
00:52:21
about himself, the correct opinion.
00:52:24
And we pastors, are we ready to hear the opinion of
00:52:28
our lordship about ourselves,
00:52:30
something, I lordship thinks about us, what is
00:52:33
important to us, what is absolutely Us it is not
00:52:36
necessary or possible for us to be afraid to hear this
00:52:40
opinion because when we hear it we
00:52:43
will understand that it is probably time to leave
00:52:44
the ministry because we have already stopped meeting the
00:52:48
qualities of a pastor that God has established.
00:52:52
I understand that sometimes we will hear
00:52:55
unfavorable opinions and the people who say it
00:52:57
will be 100% wrong, but for some reason God
00:53:01
allowed them into our lives, he wanted to
00:53:04
tell us something through them, a
00:53:07
man named Diotrebus once lived in the world,
00:53:12
he is one of the main characters of the
00:53:14
third Epistle of the Apostle John, so
00:53:17
he didn't want to hear anyone's other opinion than
00:53:21
his own.
00:53:22
Here's what the Apostle John writes about him, I
00:53:26
wrote to the church, but Diotreus, who likes
00:53:30
to be the first among them, does not receive us. Therefore,
00:53:33
when I come, I will remember his actions,
00:53:36
which he does with evil words, slandering
00:53:38
us, and he is not satisfied with that, and he himself does
00:53:41
not receive the brothers and those who wish to
00:53:44
accept will defend and drive out of the church.
00:53:47
As you can see, the Apostle John decided not to
00:53:50
leave Diotrephas alone with his
00:53:52
problems, he was ready to solve the
00:53:57
problems that arose, although Diotrefus himself
00:54:00
was not ready to solve them. This story
00:54:02
shows that if as a result of certain
00:54:06
circumstances, serious problems have arisen in the church or in the
00:54:09
pastors, then there
00:54:12
must be someone else, some other pastors, such as the
00:54:15
Apostle Ivan, who will be able to
00:54:17
help the church solve existing
00:54:20
problems,
00:54:22
because as we see, the church
00:54:24
could not solve these problems on its own it
00:54:28
needs to be like this, the
00:54:30
first thing is that we, as pastors, have to
00:54:34
realize how the church evaluates my service,
00:54:38
be ready to listen to the church, be
00:54:41
ready to listen to the brothers, secondly, how do
00:54:45
you personally evaluate yourself, are there things that
00:54:49
bother you, maybe even torment you, or
00:54:53
are there actions that you justify even though
00:54:56
you understand what you have done it is not quite
00:54:57
right
00:54:59
to justify oneself, in fact it
00:55:02
already indicates that a person is guilty of something.
00:55:08
Apostle Paul, analyzing his own
00:55:11
life, came to the following conclusion: I
00:55:16
know nothing against myself, but this does not
00:55:19
justify the same one who judges me, so
00:55:23
Lord,
00:55:24
pay attention, Apostle Paul did not know his
00:55:27
conscience did not
00:55:30
condemn him, however, he was
00:55:34
completely open to God's judgment. And by the
00:55:38
way, this is the third and most important source of
00:55:41
our assessment,
00:55:43
what God thinks about my ministry, how
00:55:47
I served before the war, how I served during
00:55:49
the war, how I escaped did it remain what God
00:55:53
thinks about it even if I believe that I
00:55:56
did the right thing And God will open my eyes
00:55:58
to the fact that I am wrong Am I ready to
00:56:01
admit my guilt Am I ready to
00:56:03
repent of my deed it is
00:56:06
very necessary to realize exactly
00:56:09
this important element of this war that
00:56:13
in fact and they say to the guardianship of the soul
00:56:16
She is heat, boiling water, a kind of
00:56:20
storm that revealed the true state of
00:56:22
each of us, a fire, as Peter is called a
00:56:25
fire, in another translation, beloved, do
00:56:29
not be surprised, fiery, what you refer
00:56:32
to Trials,
00:56:34
why do you need Trials so that the
00:56:37
proof of your faith is
00:56:40
more precious than gold that perishes even though and it
00:56:43
is tested by fire for the praise and honor
00:56:46
and glory of Jesus Christ,
00:56:51
if we really consider ourselves to be gold, then the
00:56:56
fiery trials are designed to rid
00:57:00
us of unnecessary slags, in fact, war
00:57:03
does not make us one or the other, war shows
00:57:07
us as we are, someone said that
00:57:10
only under the press we become real the
00:57:14
enormous pressure we feel at this
00:57:17
time causes appropriate reactions we
00:57:20
react according to our values
00:57:22
we react according to our
00:57:26
heart filling if there
00:57:30
is fear in our heart then we will run
00:57:33
When no one else is chasing us if there is
00:57:36
pride in the heart selfishness then you you will not
00:57:39
take care of others you will
00:57:42
take care of yourself did we stay or
00:57:46
run away what did we do while we
00:57:49
stayed And what did we do after running away these are all
00:57:52
our reactions to circumstances Maybe we
00:57:55
blamed someone maybe we
00:57:58
made excuses
00:58:00
Hard trials of war revealed our
00:58:03
true heart condition which it
00:58:06
was simply impossible to find favorable circumstances,
00:58:11
we have to understand whether we brought the fruit of
00:58:15
the Spirit in these circumstances that got us or
00:58:18
committed the works of the flesh If suddenly we
00:58:21
realized our mistake, then we
00:58:23
need to repent of this despite the fact that
00:58:26
we have the status of a pastor, we need to repent
00:58:29
and thanks to the purification of the heart with the help
00:58:32
of all these trials that have burned our
00:58:35
destiny. This is what will happen later.
00:58:38
In fact, we will be able to glorify God. We
00:58:42
will be able to bear the fruit of the spirit, which is
00:58:45
written in the Epistle to the Galatians.
00:58:58
in
00:59:02
what circumstances only on the condition of a pure
00:59:05
heart and may the Lord God help us in this

Description:

Як змінилася церква під час війни? Якою вона буде після війни? Де бажає нас бачити Господь? Що він хоче зробити через нас? Чи були ми вірними Йому? Чи зробили все чого Він очікував від нас? Про все це сьогодні у розмові з пастором Олександром Вяловим. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Дякуємо за підтримку: 1. Сергій Діденко 2. Борис Гульчук --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Щоб підтримати нас фінансово, ви можете скористатися цією карткою: 5169 3305 2419 5648 (приватбанк) 5375 4112 0072 9890 (монобанка) або https://www.patreon.com/twrua --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ми у соцмережах: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twr.ua Telegram: https://t.me/twrua_info Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/twrukr Website: https://twr.com.ua/

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