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Russian
00:00:00
and good evening good evening We are finally online00:00:03
sorry we were a little late for my00:00:04
fault I just arrived uh good evening00:00:07
We're going to start, we're going to try to00:00:09
start quite quickly uh and I00:00:11
think it will be nice to have too00:00:12
a discussion between us especially seen00:00:14
the heavy situation at the moment00:00:17
this atmosphere so I think having00:00:20
an exchange between us will allow us to00:00:21
do good to everyone and also00:00:22
to people on twitch I saw that there00:00:25
got lots of comments from people00:00:27
who said ah at least there will be one00:00:28
breathable tray and everything so we're going00:00:30
we will have the opportunity to discuss everything00:00:31
so today we are going to talk about00:00:34
title of the show C’est feu sur lifei00:00:36
we are going to talk about the treatment of the00:00:38
France rebellious and to do this I have00:00:40
firstly the pleasure of receiving Paul EC00:00:42
TV media columnist yeah B good evening00:00:45
for a little while now it's been yeah00:00:46
yeah yeah well it's been almost a year I00:00:49
think now but I'm starting to00:00:50
pass more regularly yeah and then00:00:52
I already came here last time00:00:53
yes of course with great pleasure00:00:55
come back suddenly hercilia souard I say00:00:58
I pronounce it well00:01:00
sorry I wrote down anything ah yes00:01:02
but no I thought it was an r but00:01:04
it's an i so my deputy François00:01:07
submitted then there is STATIS which will00:01:10
arrive he had sent me a message he00:01:11
normally half an hour ago00:01:12
should come Jonathan r member of CDEC00:01:16
good evening, it's okay, jonan, it's a bit tired yes00:01:20
it's hot especially there are a lot of you00:01:21
mobilized there right now every day00:01:24
every day at two locations00:01:25
different average or we will talk about it00:01:28
also from this you know there from these decks00:01:30
I saw that you had made one00:01:31
chronicle also with meuis yeah everything00:01:37
we'll talk about it later00:01:40
yeah the00:01:43
I think it's there I think00:01:46
it's the pile because I wasn't sure00:01:47
therefore Jérôme Legavre therefore deputy France00:01:49
rebellious that that so I am very00:01:52
happy it's the first time we00:01:53
receives from deputies already two deputies00:01:55
it's the first time and France00:01:57
rebellious and there will also be Yazid00:02:00
harifi who is a colonial activist who00:02:01
will uh happen so I propose that the00:02:04
time for it to settle down and everything I think00:02:05
that Yazid must think that it is00:02:07
8:30 p.m. so we're still going yes but I00:02:10
think he thought it was at 8:30 p.m.00:02:11
can someone bring me one00:02:13
something for Messer I can't take it anymore I have00:02:15
ran I am I can't take it anymore people00:02:17
I'm I'm exhausted and everything I was00:02:20
sick it's the it's the batteries 1 2 1 200:02:23
can you hear me there we are going to do00:02:25
like that uh so we're going to start and00:02:27
I would like us to talk about the demonstration00:02:29
yesterday uh so a demonstration where there was00:02:32
105,000 people announced in Paris I00:02:34
believe it's 150,000 in the whole00:02:36
France tr000 cro yeah so it was a00:02:40
demonstration what did you say according to the00:02:42
police the police near the police but00:02:43
there was no dispute I think00:02:45
that you think the numbers are00:02:46
complete or not no but he didn't have00:02:49
the companies there usually which count00:02:50
the empty sidewalks so I don't know00:02:53
because what's more, I don't have the impression00:02:55
whatever then we will discuss everything00:02:57
that but I don't have the impression that00:02:58
is really huge 105,000 people seen00:03:02
that there was still almost00:03:03
the entire political field which called for00:03:05
manifest and should also know00:03:07
why why that why that number00:03:10
so it was a demonstration00:03:12
the initiative of Yael Bron Pivet and00:03:14
Gérard Larcher a large part of the00:03:16
political field called for going to00:03:19
participate in this march and in particular00:03:22
almost all of laanups apart00:03:24
la la la I say it's not nups yes yes00:03:27
okay ah I think I said to myself00:03:28
maybe there is fa because you00:03:30
have or I said to myself maybe I am00:03:32
a little too expressive okay but you00:03:35
how I pronounced it or the fact that00:03:37
no no no it's it's it's it's not00:03:39
the pronunciation no it's it's the00:03:40
attacks we are subject to from00:03:42
of a certain number of leaders of00:03:44
parts which which composed or which composes00:03:47
we don't really know how to say la la00:03:49
Nupe or la nupes doesn't matter, that's it00:03:51
who who who really exasperates me00:03:53
Okay you have the fi and the club of the less00:03:55
of 500:03:56
% by in fact there is something there is something00:03:59
what amuses me is that we often say00:04:01
but laifi is isolating himself yes00:04:02
but the fi at 20% I mean while00:04:05
that the PCF and all PS they don't have one00:04:08
it's precisely because we have we are00:04:10
as strong in quotation marks as we00:04:12
tries to make us feel guilty, well we are00:04:15
we're going to talk about all that so I said00:04:17
that there was a good part there00:04:19
had the PCF there is the PS there was00:04:21
Europe and glued the green ones who have00:04:23
also participated which made a lot of difference00:04:25
to speak is that the extreme right has00:04:27
also participated uh we saw that there00:04:29
had the national gathering where it is00:04:31
maybe they are the ones who won00:04:33
what these are those who really have00:04:35
pulled out of the game of of of of this00:04:37
context and also we saw Éric Zemour and00:04:42
Marion Marshal Le Pen I think she00:04:44
no longer wants people to say Le Pen Marion00:04:45
marshal who participatedi you respect00:04:47
the FAF what you respect their will00:04:49
Well, it’s Mario Marshal Le Pen like00:04:51
you want but already marshal for me00:04:53
it's a bad it's a00:04:56
bad there is Youssef who will do00:04:58
the comments next to me I will have00:04:59
a first question to launch the00:05:01
discussion there now we are at00:05:03
the day after the demonstration00:05:04
rebellious France did well not to00:05:06
not participate in this march who wants00:05:09
start there is no doubt about the00:05:14
poorly finished question00:05:17
little story00:05:20
piece we don't have00:05:23
oh00:05:28
cap it will have to be okay that's our00:05:31
specialty the sounds a little but it is necessary00:05:33
10 minutes for the technique for00:05:34
that she settles with so I said yes00:05:37
that there is the answer it is obvious00:05:39
we did well not to go into00:05:42
actually quagmire for me anyway00:05:44
the answer was obvious, apart from it really00:05:46
no debate we mix00:05:49
no then let's go I'm sorry to00:05:51
make you00:05:52
repeat very00:05:55
times00:05:58
yes00:06:01
so which one do I take?00:06:03
we're going to do the test, that's it, that's it00:06:06
ok so I don't know what I'm repeating00:06:08
or if I don't repeat but00:06:09
yes the cat so he has the reaction it is00:06:11
like that your specialty doesn't work00:06:14
twitch that's it, it's live00:06:16
if we say stupid things they are there if00:06:18
there are technical problems they are00:06:19
there it is our technicians thank you it is00:06:21
nice, that's bre in summary we mix00:06:24
not with the fach and then anyway00:06:25
if I had done it I would have ended up in00:06:26
a box since we see there we have them00:06:29
vachau treats me but we also saw that00:06:33
there is a video we saw that they were00:06:35
a little rusty there was we saw a00:06:37
walks with Olivier fort Tondelier and00:06:41
Rousell and we saw that there were00:06:43
people who called them collaborators00:06:45
so for you too it was a good00:06:47
no no but for me, finally, I00:06:48
completely shares the the the point of00:06:50
view of erscilia for me it was00:06:51
absolutely out of the question that we put00:06:54
even just a toe in this00:06:56
in this manifestation on the one hand00:06:58
because we knew from the start since00:07:00
the RN and reconquest had announced as soon as00:07:03
the departure that he would be present at this00:07:05
demonstration I heard yesterday I00:07:08
seen I don't know on which TV but little00:07:10
no matter I heard the words of00:07:12
Zemour who was just throwing up but00:07:15
vomit and and it's repeated over and over and00:07:18
not simply by the RN or by00:07:20
reconquest is repeated in a loop by00:07:22
uh political leaders of00:07:26
Republicans who explain to us00:07:28
definitive that he still has a big00:07:30
problem in this country are the suburbanites00:07:32
islamized uh Chenu of the RN the vice which is00:07:36
still vice-president of the Assembly00:07:38
national thinks he's very smart this morning00:07:41
by explaining on the BFM set that00:07:44
a young Jew is in greater danger00:07:49
in a suburb in quotes00:07:51
Islamized from 93 I am a deputy of00:07:53
sensand uh that in a gathering00:07:56
that in a demonstration alongside00:07:59
iting of the national gathering therefore a00:08:00
really horrible thing but otherwise00:08:02
there is there is another aspect because00:08:04
that there is the presence of the RN there is the00:08:07
presence of reconquest and there we see00:08:09
although it has been a long time since we00:08:10
spoke of standardization of the RN of00:08:12
reconquest et cetera et cetera okay00:08:15
there they were carried to the funds00:08:16
baptismal you have to be clear00:08:18
but there is there is more and it is00:08:20
moreover the fundamental reason for00:08:22
which for me it was out of00:08:24
question of setting foot there is that00:08:26
even without the RN for me it was not00:08:28
question of going to a demonstration00:08:30
of this type and I insist on this because00:08:32
that this manifestation fundamentally00:08:34
was a manifestation of unity00:08:36
national sacred union behind00:08:38
behind the government and this00:08:40
government it still has the brand00:08:42
factory to feed the worst00:08:44
divisions it is still he who is00:08:46
the author of the separatism law is him00:08:49
who at this very moment is in action00:08:51
with the Republicans to pass00:08:52
in the Senate the worst filth uh00:08:56
racists since they wear when00:08:58
even an asylum immigration law one of the00:09:01
last measures taken it is the00:09:02
abolition of state medical aid00:09:04
for uh for the undocumented and the00:09:07
same government explained to us00:09:09
for weeks and weeks and00:09:11
besides I saw that Macron had00:09:13
put the eraser back on that uh there is no00:09:15
later than 24 hours Israel has the00:09:18
right to defend itself Israel has the right00:09:20
to defend oneself concretely it is00:09:22
translated by a bombardment and a00:09:24
systematic and regular shelling00:09:27
Gaza and we have exceeded 10,000 v00:09:29
SO00:09:30
uh fight against anti-Semitism in00:09:33
side of those who me me I am for one00:09:36
fight against anti-Semitism thoroughly00:09:38
but alongside those who in the same00:09:40
time approve of a mass massacre at00:09:43
Gaza no I'm sorry but it's true00:09:45
that one of the strategies there at the moment00:09:47
for example of from the left that this00:09:49
either PCF PS and everything to justify the00:09:52
works is to say that they were00:09:54
against the coming of the RN but it is00:09:56
true that what we remember is that but that's the problem it's not00:09:57
only the RN is it is all those00:09:59
who were uh who were present uh00:10:01
Jonathan well exactly the same opinion uh00:10:03
for us at tedec it was everything00:10:05
way uh for the same reasons00:10:07
basic cararcilia we weren't going to dare00:10:08
wouldn't dare go there because we know00:10:11
how would we have been welcomed there but uh actually the00:10:15
question if the question is not limited00:10:17
to the extreme right uh the RAC racism00:10:19
state Islamophobia state uh the00:10:22
exiles who die in the sea or who00:10:23
are chased by the police or taken down00:10:25
their tent or take down their tent suddenly00:10:26
knife at the chapel in the north of00:10:28
Paris but in fact a little everywhere around00:10:29
of the device it's it's not the RN00:10:32
who applied this policy is the00:10:33
macronie the desire for an alliance of the rights00:10:36
with with with Erric Zemour he is he00:10:39
is it today widely00:10:41
encouraged by sooti by young people00:10:43
republicans to the theory of the Grand00:10:44
replacement she was still cited00:10:45
by Valéri pcres in full in full in00:10:47
full republican meeting therefore to leave00:10:49
from the moment when it is these people who00:10:50
are at the initiative of the walk little00:10:54
no matter what they mean and00:10:55
then good on anti-Semitism we say00:10:57
already said it 10,000 times in your00:10:58
issued but the references to Pétin Moras00:11:01
Bainville00:11:03
in our vision it is linked we cannot00:11:05
fight anti-Semitism without fighting00:11:06
against against others but in addition we00:11:09
blames Muslims for not being00:11:10
because there was better Habib00:11:12
who said but I mean what doesn't00:11:13
don't understand it's because we can't00:11:14
go walking with people who00:11:15
treat like those who are going to talk about big00:11:17
location who will talk about scum00:11:19
who are going to talk about Islamization ago00:11:20
also a misunderstanding about that and00:11:22
moreover the bottom of this00:11:23
manifestation but what is still00:11:24
more shocking is the choice of00:11:26
editorialists of almost all00:11:29
the major news channels finally00:11:32
of all the major news channels00:11:33
TNT is still in fact00:11:35
show an image where the RN is00:11:38
totally standardized become frequentable00:11:40
and even became a kind of rampart00:11:42
against anti-Semitism with00:11:43
15 second interviews uh00:11:45
indeed Jews who seem00:11:46
very uncomfortable in their skin and who00:11:47
they seem to feel in danger00:11:48
it's completely legitimate we are being given00:11:50
don't question that at all00:11:52
but to find a portrait of a00:11:54
a somewhat ordinary Jewish person who will say00:11:56
that in fact she feels much more00:11:57
security she would feel much more00:11:59
safe with the gathering00:12:01
national than with rebellious France00:12:03
because France is Islamized and00:12:04
does what is currently happening00:12:05
loop on all these cha on all these00:12:07
channels and especially all mainstream media00:12:09
it's that and the fact that the left when00:12:10
we talk about her since in fact00:12:11
ultimately his presence was totally00:12:13
anecdotal and marginalized is that in00:12:16
big no one wanted to see the00:12:18
left in these demonstrations and it is00:12:19
not the case only in Paris I believe00:12:20
that this was also the case in Strasbourg00:12:21
where generally globally the deputies00:12:24
and the girls were still rather00:12:26
poorly received rather poorly received and me00:12:28
I think that finally the people of00:12:30
left who said to themselves that they were going to00:12:32
for a single moment to be able to weigh against the00:12:33
weight of the extreme right weighing against00:12:34
the weight of the republican arc in fact00:12:36
just served as useful idiots to say00:12:38
that it wasn't just a demonstration00:12:39
far right because he had read00:12:41
JF there was the PS there was there00:12:43
had Europe Ecology The worm and it was00:12:45
the Republic but hey we are there00:12:46
Republic in itself it is considered that00:12:48
that it is systemically and00:12:49
structurally racist also in everything00:12:51
case for the 5th Republic what00:12:53
Besides, I'll also let you speak00:12:54
Paul, there is one thing that reminds me00:12:56
question is that we when we do00:12:57
demonstrations there are order but we are going00:12:59
not fight against Islamophobia in00:13:01
just saying stop Islamophobia ago00:13:03
an analysis behind there are there are00:13:05
any suggestions has there been that00:13:06
on this demonstration is there there is00:13:07
something was just a thing bah00:13:09
we can read the call the call is for00:13:11
that we can also show that the00:13:12
participants are perfectly00:13:13
hypocrites there is a very formula00:13:16
unhappy where they say the Republic00:13:17
it's not just the right to vote and00:13:18
a little further they say it can't00:13:19
be the victim designation00:13:22
expiatory but it is the same ones who00:13:24
vote on the immigration law and who00:13:25
designate Muslims00:13:27
immigrants the angs which for them are00:13:29
more or less the same people in00:13:31
their racist speech who says that00:13:33
that's why you shouldn't either00:13:35
come and give a patent of republicanism00:13:37
to whom in the Republic of the baton of00:13:38
the LBD sanspier hunt is it’s00:13:42
it's a real fellow and besides we00:13:43
see it is what you start to say00:13:45
in political commentary00:13:46
today there is a kind of00:13:48
very impressive phenomenon which is the00:13:50
FN anti-Semitic not anti-Semitic and it is00:13:52
Schrodinger's anti-Semitism according to whom00:13:54
look, they tell us it’s not anti-Semitic00:13:56
or it is anti-Semitic and in fact the key to00:13:58
reading is very simple the more you are00:13:59
Islamophobic the more you tend to00:14:01
find that the FN is not anti-Semitic00:14:02
eh you ask better00:14:04
no problem no there is no problem00:14:06
weeks before he spoke of hatred of00:14:07
Jew and Afrodis with Arab masses00:14:09
remarks which did not really shock00:14:11
apparently the political commissariat00:14:13
the same for Érdard Philippe this morning who00:14:15
said no but the FN changed the RN sorry00:14:17
changed me it doesn't shock me yeah well00:14:19
It shocks me brother so get out of there and00:14:21
that's what I always say in00:14:23
depending on if you are Islam the more you00:14:25
are Islamophobic, that's it and by the way00:14:27
those who are perhaps the least00:14:28
Islamophobic in minus quotes00:14:30
Islamophobic is debatable but France00:14:32
rebellious and well them by00:14:34
against accusation dismissed because00:14:37
queon didn't talk about that in your00:14:38
introduction but on Saturday they have00:14:41
participated in a number of deputies00:14:42
of France rebellious to a demonstration which00:14:45
was filed by the organizations of00:14:46
youth and students eh and they have00:14:48
were greeted by demonstrators who00:14:49
told them no but get out of there00:14:51
don't appropriate my memory ah you want00:14:53
say Sunday morning Sunday morning00:14:55
Saturday was the demonstration for the00:14:56
palestinemantin says morning sorry00:14:58
excuse me but we know which one00:15:01
organization they come honestly no00:15:04
s without speculation then I won't00:15:05
to speculate because we don't have00:15:06
the test but it seems that there is00:15:07
one or two people to reconquer00:15:08
inside me I'm waiting I'm waiting to have00:15:10
there's no proof so I'm not going00:15:11
speculate in it but it's not it's not00:15:13
impossible the slogan on the videos themselves00:15:15
from BFM we see it they say LFI colabo00:15:17
or so in terms of memory already the word00:15:20
collabo carries he a historic weight the00:15:23
the collaborators are the RN finally I say00:15:25
everyone repeated it creation by00:15:27
the Vs and buts and on top of that collabo00:15:29
of what and we know very well what00:15:31
this is the speech of the extreme00:15:32
right collab with Islamism wholesale00:15:34
and this kind of continuum00:15:35
systematic who appreciated that's it00:15:37
so but the question should not be00:15:39
pose on the far right and then00:15:40
once again there are people00:15:41
extraordinary scenes I just wanted00:15:43
say something, I'm basically black00:15:45
ok in the stands with Christian Estrzi I00:15:47
had the pleasure of recalling yesterday that there00:15:49
had a Philippe Bardon, former regional elected official00:15:52
of the national gathering member of00:15:53
reconquest since 2022 which was filmed00:15:56
in a neo-Nazi concert on a00:15:59
song called armed zyclone00:16:01
OK and he is in the stands quietly00:16:03
it's it's it was the creator one of the00:16:05
creators of the Nissois antenna which00:16:07
was called Nissa realla founder of00:16:08
Identity Block he me the first00:16:10
stages of myantiste that was what we00:16:12
was fighting and no worries he is in00:16:14
tribune and then to Paris Frédéric00:16:16
bocaletti then he definitely has a00:16:18
negationist bookstore but it's not00:16:20
serious come eh come as you are00:16:22
the political framework is not at all right00:16:24
that's it can it be that it can't be that00:16:26
but I also saw there was Édouard00:16:28
Philip today who said that hey yes00:16:30
the RN uh looked back on its history00:16:32
anti-Semitic it was so much the better but uh00:16:35
there is a problem that we are going to00:16:36
point is that but wait so if00:16:38
we're not anti-Semitic that's good but if we00:16:41
is at the same time Islamophobic if all00:16:43
our policy is focused on00:16:45
xenophobia on the fight against00:16:47
immigrants there it's good we can still00:16:48
be part of the republican arc and00:16:50
that's where they say it's dangerous00:16:51
for the fight against anti-Semitism00:16:53
because it can cause00:16:54
resentments in others00:16:56
populations saying good in fact we00:16:57
racism our guy is not00:16:59
serious I don't know if you wanted to react00:17:00
also on yesterday's demonstration well yes00:17:02
made the reaction I wanted to have00:17:04
think you've already had it00:17:05
it's that in fact Sunday was there00:17:08
I found it fascinating to see actually00:17:09
well I'm talking about Paris mania because00:17:11
that I didn't really follow the others there00:17:12
there were still a few00:17:13
but I still have the impression that00:17:14
most of the demonstrators were at00:17:16
Paris and in fact when we see the the the00:17:18
the leading procession we have the concentrate of00:17:20
25 years of Republican front what00:17:24
we had everyone we had Hollande00:17:26
we had Sarkozi we had Val we had00:17:31
the two presidents of the assemblies00:17:32
current we had Fabius we suddenly have00:17:34
it's even more than 25 years because00:17:35
Fabius sorry you hear me or00:17:38
we don't have the concentration la la la00:17:41
noun Mo of 25 years of or 3000:17:44
even years of the 5th Republic and suddenly00:17:47
it's interesting to understand00:17:51
to analyze the real subject on which00:17:53
actually concentrate this consensus00:17:55
republican it's a point it's there00:17:57
hatred of Arabs that's the point00:17:59
that's the point on which all these good people00:18:01
agrees and on which00:18:02
build it's already built00:18:04
largely uh well the politics that is00:18:06
carried out for dozens and00:18:08
decades, well no maybe not decades but00:18:09
in any case, let's say that there is a00:18:10
acceleration at least since00:18:12
since the Sarkozi presidency and this00:18:15
what we see is that there is there is for00:18:17
suddenly a radicalization of everything00:18:19
this republican arc which in fact is a00:18:21
arc is a republican fascist arc i00:18:23
think we can say that today00:18:24
still goes from Tondelier and uh he has00:18:28
put Olivier hard up until00:18:30
reconquest what but precisely I was going00:18:31
say perhaps the case of the left say00:18:33
without putting them and without them how to say00:18:36
remove them from the possibility of saying00:18:37
that they have an anti-Arab policy or00:18:38
anti-Muslim whatever you want I think00:18:40
that they must also be treated in part00:18:41
part yes yes jeacc it is necessary but that00:18:44
would be interesting to explain how00:18:45
how are we here but is there00:18:47
still doesn't have any so I don't00:18:48
I will never put reconquest at the same level00:18:50
that but when we see some00:18:52
treatments when we see mine how00:18:53
to cause a scandal but a scandal00:18:55
but which did not cause such00:18:56
scandal say they were less by the00:18:58
made of parading with sooti that of00:19:01
receive Medina is there no00:19:03
also questions to ask yourself00:19:05
also on the perception they have of00:19:07
certain populations ah but but00:19:09
totally me I say that the key00:19:11
input to try to understand what00:19:12
which concerns us to know why we00:19:13
fires on rebellious France, it is00:19:15
only in the left forces eh00:19:17
concretely there are people who00:19:19
cannot confront the agenda of the00:19:21
political power elsewhere00:19:22
we said there are people look at her00:19:24
position of the worms is symptomatic they00:19:26
observed their impediment for 3 days00:19:28
total politics I say for example that00:19:30
could ask the question of telling00:19:31
left we are holding a demonstration with00:19:33
clear modords of the slogans which00:19:34
de facto exclude the possibility of CAM00:19:37
to participate and then they said00:19:39
Tondelier said we call for00:19:40
decency of the national gathering is00:19:42
it's a political joke 2023 but it00:19:44
you have to put it you have to give it a00:19:45
price there, he no longer plays politics00:19:47
here it is and Sandrine Rousseau who said I00:19:48
I regret it, I'm going to show it, we know00:19:51
not diagonally I will put one foot00:19:53
in the crank not next to the same she one00:19:55
foot inside her she said herself he00:19:57
happened it's something serious00:19:58
but what are you doing Sandrine he00:20:00
what is happening what are you doing politics00:20:02
not an old one potentially finally00:20:04
candidate in the primary who wanted to be00:20:06
presidential candidate no they00:20:07
are there they notice they see them00:20:09
ilent points ah yeah we lost but00:20:10
what is this team really?00:20:12
and I think there is opportunism00:20:13
because opportunism is having00:20:15
an agreement with at the moment we00:20:18
says our interest is we don't want00:20:19
leave to be part of the people who will00:20:21
get smashed in the media00:20:23
politically which will be put at the00:20:24
vindictiveness and really I end there00:20:27
I found a sentence that resonated with me00:20:28
really makes you think of that, it's a00:20:29
sentence from engles which makes me too much00:20:31
laugh at this forgetfulness of adults00:20:33
essential considerations before00:20:34
passing interests of the day so there the00:20:36
major essential oversights, we don't00:20:37
not fight against racism with00:20:39
racist eh besides the interests00:20:40
passengers of the day not to be put at the00:20:43
vindict this race for ephemeral success00:20:45
the struggle going on all around00:20:47
without worrying about the consequences00:20:49
subsequent consequences of this abandonment of the future00:20:50
of the movement that we sacrifice to00:20:52
present all this perhaps has00:20:53
honest mobiles eh we can00:20:54
recognize that in my opinion they were00:20:55
partly honest in their struggle but00:20:57
that and remains opportunism or00:20:59
honest opportunism is perhaps the00:21:01
more dangerous and that I find is00:21:03
The lesson is that they are00:21:04
honestly by saying to ourselves well yes we want00:21:06
participate in this but that doesn't prevent00:21:07
that every time they march against their00:21:09
camp because we know very well that00:21:10
when we participate in this type of union00:21:12
well the best way to feel good00:21:15
see in this union is to tap on00:21:16
the others and we know that they have00:21:18
the habit of hitting on France00:21:19
then Jérôme rebellious after Yazid and we00:21:21
will welcome STATIS00:21:23
yes I have the microphone here I like this00:21:26
this quote from engles actually00:21:28
but we are talking about a moreover a00:21:31
of a political staff who is when00:21:34
even very very very very sensitive to00:21:36
media pressure and who as soon as this00:21:39
pressure is exerted a little strong and00:21:43
systematically on the line of least00:21:45
resistance and systematically on line00:21:48
adaptation we saw it after the death of00:21:50
Naël who joins a certain number of00:21:52
questions even though we are who we00:21:53
is debating there right now00:21:55
uh immediately after what was when00:21:58
even been assassinated by a police officer00:22:01
from a 17 year old mom well yes from a00:22:04
17 year old kid immediately after we00:22:08
France submitted was the target of00:22:11
all the criticism has been the target of a00:22:13
systematic unleashing and we are00:22:15
ordered to condemn condemn00:22:17
condemn and and and the simple fact that we00:22:21
tell us what we did anyway00:22:24
understood with what happened in00:22:25
Israel on October 7 the simple fact that we00:22:28
put that in so we put it in a00:22:29
context it was it was offensive00:22:32
to the most basic principles and00:22:34
cetera so there is this first there is this00:22:35
first fact on the one hand they are very00:22:37
very sensitive to media pressure00:22:38
and besides they are not the only ones00:22:41
That's a certainty but it's00:22:44
which plays out in this in in in00:22:46
in everything we are experiencing00:22:48
there since the 7th00:22:49
October through the reactions of some00:22:52
and of the others it is the existence of a00:22:55
of a political line of rupture uh00:22:58
because why is there a00:23:00
such unleashing against France00:23:01
rebellious obviously there is a there00:23:04
to this outburst against France00:23:05
rebellious because from the start we00:23:07
we said this is what earned us this00:23:09
these witchcraft trials from the00:23:11
press release of 7 us in this00:23:13
press release we say we cry00:23:15
victims whether Israeli or00:23:18
whether she is Jewish or Arab whether she00:23:21
either Israeli or Palestinian and00:23:23
immediately we were accused of00:23:25
put what happened into perspective 700:23:28
October and immediately we put in place00:23:29
before and we were the only ones to do it00:23:31
the time the demand to stop the00:23:34
immediate fire but uh the relentlessness he has00:23:38
also in my opinion eh a cause more00:23:40
deep is that I am00:23:43
convinced that the mark of the situation00:23:45
in this country there is a rejection00:23:48
huge a very very very deep rejection00:23:52
of the policy of this government00:23:53
Macron's policy and all that00:23:55
that she embodies I will remind you when00:23:56
same as a few months ago00:23:58
demonstrations against pension reform00:24:00
was extremely massive and in this00:24:03
situation and that's what panics them00:24:06
France insoumise is not a00:24:09
marginal organization of uh it's not00:24:13
a small organization is a00:24:15
good mass movement and existence00:24:18
of a mass movement in such00:24:19
context and a mass movement which00:24:22
hold on to this breaking line00:24:24
for those in power it is intolerable and00:24:26
so he goes after us and and00:24:29
so they use the worst00:24:30
arguments we will come back to all that you00:24:33
wanted to add something and I00:24:34
would also like the opinion of STATIS on the00:24:35
yesterday's demonstration did the fi do well00:24:37
does not go there and what he has00:24:39
thought of what you saw yesterday yes in00:24:42
actually I wanted very long compared to00:24:43
what Paul was saying I understand but I00:24:47
think I agree more00:24:48
that is to say I think we are too00:24:50
nice to them in fact I'm talking about00:24:53
comrades nupes off fi I position myself00:24:56
in fact I no no no what I want00:24:59
to say is that in fact I am not00:25:00
agree that it is necessary00:25:03
be a little more lenient uh in the00:25:06
diagnosis of their situation00:25:07
to them politically in relation to people00:25:09
who are on the right I have the conviction00:25:11
and I saw a remark earlier00:25:12
which focused on this for example when I00:25:14
see the somewhat knee-jerk reaction of00:25:15
someone like Tondelier when she00:25:18
participated in the demonstration one of the demonstrations on00:25:19
the CESS of fire and that she said that in00:25:21
made Allah Akbar say it was a00:25:23
disaster I no longer know exactly what00:25:24
what she says but that's it for her00:25:25
really it's epidermal what's there00:25:27
an epidermal thing compared to the00:25:29
presence of Arabic and00:25:31
of Muslims who assume themselves in a00:25:32
manifestation and more generally in00:25:34
the company actually I think their00:25:36
mental universe it is it is colonized00:25:38
without a bad pun it is colonized00:25:40
by everything we hear and by everything00:25:42
which is conveyed more racist in fact00:25:44
eh in this country for 30 years00:25:46
and I wonder if it's not too late00:25:47
In fact00:25:48
uh that is to say I wonder if it is00:25:51
still possible to build something00:25:53
thing with them that looks like a block00:25:54
of rupture without going through per and profit00:25:57
a fight that still seems to me00:25:58
essential that bah of of the refusal of of00:26:01
of the hatred of immigrants and Muslims00:26:03
of the Arabs for refusing to build a00:26:06
anti-imperialist line which is int00:26:07
temp is not very coherent because it is necessary00:26:08
also that we talk about that beyond the00:26:10
Arab Muslim question what is at stake00:26:11
it's also the question of the line00:26:13
anti-imperialist STATIS will talk about it without00:26:14
doubt better than me but basically this00:26:16
way that at the somewhat moderate fringe of00:26:20
the of the nupes to adhere but in a way00:26:22
but super enthusiastic about every word00:26:24
of an imperialist order whether in00:26:25
Palestine or elsewhere for that matter without00:26:27
without giving details she poses00:26:29
question even though it asks a question00:26:30
and I wonder if we're not at one00:26:32
moment when well we must clearly assume00:26:33
and that's what makes her sick I think00:26:35
it's that in the in laanupes wool00:26:37
it's not dissolved, what's wrong with it?00:26:38
did not temper as can happen to00:26:40
organizations like podemos it does not have00:26:42
tempered his positions to become00:26:43
governable on the contrary and that00:26:46
drives you crazy and maybe it will work00:26:47
in fact there are only slaps to be had00:26:49
take exactly after i just live00:26:52
emphasize the fact that because it is00:26:53
true that we talk a lot about00:26:54
organizations globally ELV and C00:26:57
etera but but of course afterwards there is00:26:59
that's it, you shouldn't finally I think that there is00:27:00
the staffs on one side and then after00:27:02
there are also deputies who00:27:05
detach he also has then after00:27:07
with more or less with more or less00:27:09
by force but there are we also have00:27:11
here are militant comrades who are00:27:14
also release finally I mean by00:27:15
example marine telier she was when00:27:16
even clashed by his own camp00:27:18
somewhere for young environmentalists00:27:19
What00:27:21
uh and I highlight for example the00:27:24
courage of not of some like by00:27:26
example at ELV00:27:28
Sabrina sbahi that's who who still has00:27:31
been for example presenting its00:27:35
condolences to the ambassador with a00:27:37
ELV delegation when we look at the00:27:39
delegation in fact it was only00:27:41
municipal councilors in fact because00:27:43
she is not very supported but00:27:45
but I think we must not forget00:27:47
also these people and moreover we00:27:50
I saw it yesterday that I'm angry, I I00:27:52
I agree with everything with yeah ah00:27:54
excuse me for everything Yazid said00:27:56
but we must not forget that00:27:57
the first people who were00:27:59
the initiative of a counter-rally00:28:00
these are still the youth of00:28:01
different left-wing parties which which which00:28:03
proves what still proves that there00:28:05
that there are things that move and00:28:06
lines lines internally including00:28:08
including young people from the PSF and young people00:28:10
of europe ecology the Greens and that already00:28:11
to take the case of Medina which00:28:13
for me is really a case a case00:28:15
school actually lines00:28:16
demarcation of the lines of00:28:19
political demarcation youth00:28:20
of uropeecology of the Greens had supported00:28:22
mdine in the same way as the GC for00:28:23
that he plays at the UMA party uh so00:28:25
so it's not necessarily it's not necessary00:28:27
no longer see VO see that only through the00:28:28
frames but at some point there is when00:28:30
even representatives and there the00:28:31
representatives who also do not go00:28:32
I don't even take into account their fault.00:28:33
mean the the the tweet from sandR the00:28:36
tweet from Sandrine Rousseau today00:28:38
It’s still a textbook case of00:28:40
that's what you described Paul de de00:28:41
nullity of absolute nullity policy in00:28:43
in any case, admitting one's own00:28:46
powerlessness to do something00:28:47
say this is really their position00:28:48
main policy today STATIS00:28:50
I check if the microphone is connected correctly00:28:52
or there is someone who says like Elsa00:28:53
actually fuson to the PSF there is also00:28:54
a lot eh I have a lot of00:28:55
comrades I spent 10 years there I00:28:59
I but there are number sorry St no of00:29:03
nothing good good evening I apologize for my00:29:05
My00:29:07
late I wanted to say two things00:29:09
the first is to pick up a thread that00:29:11
Jérôme began to develop which00:29:14
my crucial opinion because it is necessary00:29:15
sometimes take a little step back we are00:29:16
obviously so immersed by a00:29:18
news which is atrocious and dramatic00:29:19
that we have that we lose a little00:29:22
maybe a plan the the larger plan00:29:25
what I meant was that00:29:28
for me what has been happening since in fact00:29:30
the legislative presidential sequence00:29:33
it is that there is a bone which did not have00:29:35
saw it coming and can't swallow00:29:38
no one had considered that the landscape00:29:41
on the left would be the one that came out of00:29:46
the presidential and legislative elections00:29:48
that is to say not only a Mélanchon00:29:51
archidominant at the level of00:29:53
presidential election literally pulverizing00:29:56
the other left-wing candidates00:29:57
remember the surveys at the start of the school year00:30:00
at the start of the 2021 school year Mélenchon was00:30:03
sometimes behind even jade in some00:30:06
in in in some polls he he00:30:08
he already placed him 3rd 4th 2nd 3rd on the left00:30:12
et cetera eh so no one had00:30:14
saw this coming and no one saw it coming00:30:17
the possibility nupè or the possibility00:30:20
nupè whatever the reserve we go00:30:21
see it is very important because00:30:23
make the comparison between what happened00:30:25
passed after 2017 because 2017 already00:30:27
you are going to tell me melanch we are archer00:30:29
dominant on the left yes but precisely00:30:31
after that what were 17 deputies and fill in00:30:33
Parliament a fragmented left the verses00:30:36
completely outside of Parliament00:30:39
no orientation no compass that00:30:40
what emerges there we have for the00:30:42
first time this is the major element00:30:45
that Jerome said a breaking line00:30:47
who seems to win a battle00:30:49
politics on the left and find a00:30:51
extension in the constitution of00:30:53
the anupes the anupes did not generate00:30:55
electoral dynamics eh but nevertheless00:30:58
the simple fact of being able to aggregate the00:31:00
forces were enough to move the00:31:01
lines considerably try00:31:03
to imagine what would have happened if there00:31:05
hadn't had00:31:06
laanupè so simply that eh so there00:31:09
we have 75 deputies and he cannot fill that00:31:12
can't swallow it, he can't swallow it00:31:14
one one a rebellious France which weighs00:31:16
of such weight and who has the head of a00:31:19
left alliance where it imposed in00:31:21
the main points we will say00:31:22
program in any case people it's00:31:24
those who have that is something00:31:25
which is unacceptable right away00:31:28
afterward there is still a climb eh00:31:30
I see very clearly that with each00:31:32
times there is now a good scenario00:31:33
tested every time we have some sort of00:31:36
line of cleavage which appears in the00:31:37
in the political landscape on a00:31:40
social societal political issue00:31:41
international whatever you want00:31:43
everything is done to delegitimize France00:31:47
rebellious lump it in with everything else00:31:49
in the face of the enemy within00:31:52
such as the system the bourgeoisie00:31:53
built for years i.e.00:31:55
terrorist muslim and now France00:31:58
rebellious, that's pretty much it00:31:59
same thing it's truly the enemy00:32:01
inside and every time it's00:32:02
always the same injunction you call00:32:05
calm ah you only call for calm00:32:06
you are with the scum et cetera00:32:08
you take responsibility for the denunciation of00:32:11
Islamophobia and you stand your ground on00:32:13
this line you are Islamo00:32:15
leftists you are outside the arc00:32:17
of the republican arc you refuse to00:32:19
say that Hamas as such is00:32:21
a terrorist organization you are00:32:22
with the terrorists and we reactivate00:32:24
obviously the trauma of the Bataclan and00:32:27
and everything else to build00:32:28
truly the new figure of00:32:30
the enemy of the enemy within00:32:31
new figure of the enemy within00:32:33
it is that in France anti-Semitism00:32:36
it is the doing of Muslims and00:32:37
left no but it's absolutely00:32:39
amazing at the right time a few months00:32:42
after I mean zimour has been has been00:32:44
finally condemned finally it is for his00:32:46
remarks as the so-called Pétin who00:32:48
would have saved Jews and and and00:32:51
it's the left and it's the left of00:32:52
rupture which is now located at00:32:54
band of the accused supposedly for for00:32:56
for anti-Semitism so I would say that and00:32:59
I'm going to conclude with this is that00:33:00
the Union is a fight which bothers them00:33:03
really it's not necessary to shoot a00:33:06
line on laanupes but it should not be00:33:08
not so much and that's it in my opinion00:33:10
the main thing is that politics00:33:12
that we have nupes yes but on a line of00:33:15
break not on a smaller line00:33:17
common denominators not on the line of00:33:19
softening not not on the line of00:33:21
the race to the center and moderation00:33:23
supposedly to gain votes from00:33:25
the moderate electorate we are completely at00:33:27
side of the plate if we think that the00:33:28
French society as it is with00:33:30
its level of social tension with the00:33:32
social violence than classes00:33:34
dominant forces subject classes to00:33:36
popular for years and00:33:37
years we are completely wrong if we00:33:39
think the solution on the left would be to00:33:41
drift precisely in this direction therefore00:33:43
I believe that the fact that France00:33:44
rebellious it has been said eh refuse to00:33:46
doing it is something that makes00:33:48
doubly unbearable precisely this00:33:50
which happened in 2022 because it00:33:52
shows that they are not going away00:33:53
get rid of it so easily00:33:56
I would really just bounce on the00:33:58
question of the fight against anti-Semitism because I heard00:33:59
several things just to show00:34:02
to what extent this alliance between00:34:03
majority and and the RN on this alleged00:34:07
fight against anti-Semitism is00:34:09
something strong enough you just need00:34:11
see in fact the famous study group00:34:13
on the anti-Semitism of which I am00:34:15
vice-president and and in fact every00:34:19
each session we observe this alliance00:34:22
in fact between these between these two00:34:24
political specters uh and h sinceen00:34:28
fact there is a true union between00:34:30
had against then against against France00:34:34
rebelliousness embodied in this case by00:34:35
me because I'm the only one00:34:38
clearly still have the courage to00:34:40
get in there uh and uh and so00:34:44
in so I have it is often actually00:34:46
it often turns out to be00:34:47
exchanges in ping-pong mode between a00:34:50
on the MAO and the RN side and me opposite what00:34:53
and and finally in fact every time00:34:55
what is on the agenda is00:34:57
only uh it's only the la00:35:00
defense of Israel and indeed the00:35:04
fight against Muslims and against00:35:07
ultimately all the subjects that00:35:09
really touch on the really on the00:35:11
fight against anti-Semitism we talk about it00:35:13
absolutely not I will give an example00:35:14
very concrete00:35:15
uh at some point so the president00:35:19
Le Fèvre brought us together to discuss00:35:23
the proposed resolution on the00:35:24
leave then we want to say already uh00:35:27
what is the brief report and therefore00:35:29
well it brings us all that together uh00:35:31
actually a good debate, yeah that was it00:35:34
was nothing like a debate eh it was uh00:35:37
once again it was pingpong00:35:39
uh but besides that we had a00:35:42
proposed law on00:35:44
anti-Semitic despair then there00:35:45
strangely it was not the order of the00:35:47
day uh that's it afterwards we have a whole bunch of00:35:50
topic that could be discussed eh00:35:51
we have the fight against Rivarol which00:35:54
continues to be sold in00:35:56
big brands, that doesn't bother anyone00:35:58
uh here we have the question from Boris00:36:00
Lelay who is never discussed either00:36:01
for example finally here we all are00:36:03
could address all these topics00:36:04
finally00:36:06
but there is sure that if we00:36:09
talking about anti-Semitism currently there00:36:10
a there is matter h I mean the00:36:12
simple fact that Jordan Bardella can00:36:14
rehabilitate Jean-Marie Le Pen on all00:36:16
the TV sets saying I don't think00:36:18
not that he was really anti-Semitic and00:36:19
the absence of reaction which is almost00:36:21
total within the media class00:36:24
political media it's it's when00:36:26
even that's still quite significant00:36:27
I mean being able to say this00:36:29
kind of thing and that the slightest thing00:36:32
which can be interpreted as00:36:33
anti-Semitism but what is00:36:34
generally not heads around the faces00:36:37
the turn of the TV sets to accuse00:36:39
France is sometimes even rebellious00:36:40
graffiti on which you wrote [ __ ]00:36:42
anti-Semitism finally when are we00:36:43
even at this level at this level with00:36:45
a yeah but her her reading she was00:36:47
not totally wrong from the MP I00:36:49
don't know if you saw the interpretation00:36:51
that she gave that is to say that even if we00:36:52
[ __ ] anti-Semitism we are seen as00:36:55
anti-Semitic but there is someone who00:36:58
just ask if yes asked if the00:37:00
the debates are accessible00:37:02
so unfortunately the groups00:37:03
studies it’s always in closed H so00:37:06
we have absolutely no trace and that's it00:37:07
reason why moreover he00:37:09
unleashes but like never before ah yes we00:37:12
can't know what's in there no00:37:14
in fact they do yeah even the00:37:15
rare contradictions that we can have00:37:16
it's super factual with just the00:37:18
decision-making but never00:37:20
content of the debates actually agree00:37:22
otherwise I will get them out to you without00:37:23
problem I would have one last00:37:25
question on the la the maniv yesterday uh we00:37:27
saw that there is the the a group of00:37:31
anti-racist golem Jews who have00:37:34
participating in this event is it00:37:36
what do you think, Jonathan?00:37:38
do you still understand this00:37:39
this desire nonetheless to go and00:37:41
because they also had the00:37:42
the idea of going there to fire the00:37:45
fchot where was it for you00:37:47
still not a good idea to go there00:37:48
I already understand I don't understand00:37:50
in fact when we claim to be a00:37:51
Jewish anti-racist group why is this00:37:53
that we are going to demonstrate there given the00:37:54
people who are at the origin of the00:37:55
demonstration we said it earlier00:37:58
excuse me, we said it earlier00:37:59
but as long as it is organized by00:38:01
macronia and finally by00:38:03
President of the National Assembly and00:38:05
the President of the Senate therefore by the00:38:07
macronie and the republicans and the00:38:09
basic republicans in fact de facto it00:38:11
is dealer questions especially given the00:38:13
background of the demonstration the demonstration is when00:38:14
even a manifestation which is00:38:15
clearly Islamophobic to say that this00:38:16
are Arabs who are responsible00:38:19
who are who are who are today00:38:20
those most responsible for00:38:21
anti-Semitism then no me I I00:38:23
I don't understand and above all I understand00:38:25
no how could they00:38:26
imagine for a single second that they00:38:27
were going to oust the extreme right then00:38:28
that ultimately it’s them that you see00:38:30
finally that you see that you see00:38:32
take refuge behind a police cordon00:38:35
threatened by the Jewish Defense League00:38:38
I don't actually understand what00:38:39
moment you imagine that you are going to turn00:38:40
the extreme right given its presence and the00:38:42
forces that it will mobilize on this type00:38:44
event and I don't understand00:38:45
how as an anti-racist activist00:38:47
you can finally claim he because00:38:49
that if it was an organization00:38:50
Jewish at the limit I could have understood00:38:52
but I don't understand how00:38:53
anti organization which claims to be00:38:55
anti-racist can call there and even00:38:58
in his interviews never mention00:39:01
other forms of racism and sometimes00:39:02
even author rehabilitation00:39:04
anti-Semitic who are other parties that00:39:06
would mean that in fact the only00:39:07
problem is the presence of the extreme00:39:09
right, that's not being anti-racist00:39:10
so no I don't understand I find that00:39:12
a possible consequence I would like to react00:39:14
I agree with you but00:39:15
let's try to take them for people00:39:17
sincere that there are some we know some00:39:18
media figures who were able to play a00:39:21
real role in our social camp on the00:39:22
question of public freedoms and00:39:24
cetera I think Arimi who was very00:39:26
mobilized on me I want to00:39:27
believe in their sincerity g and of course and00:39:30
there were and we saw signs00:39:32
et cetera as usual because no00:39:34
but but I agree with this00:39:35
what you say I'm just saying that eh00:39:38
the fact that at 120 people they have00:39:40
tried to fire the fachot and he was00:39:41
fired by other fachot i.e.00:39:42
the national police there is still00:39:46
the explanation for the fact that they failed00:39:49
that is to say, the idea of being able to bring together00:39:51
on the anti-racist bases inside00:39:53
of this mobilization to be able to00:39:55
[ __ ] out the RN wasn't00:39:57
possible then why00:39:59
anti-fascists in this country were not00:40:01
there to their Rael suddenly your explanation00:40:04
would be for example well in fact on the00:40:05
basically it was not possible00:40:06
demonstrating themselves also that's it but00:40:08
it's it's it's definitely that that's to say that00:40:10
that also says something about the fact00:40:11
that apart from the fact that there are people00:40:12
sincere people who sincerely walked00:40:14
against anti-Semitism on Sunday00:40:16
truth, the public of the demonstration is00:40:17
people who applauded Marine Le Pen or00:40:20
in any case who was not very very embarrassed00:40:21
of his presence and in oneself already there we are00:40:24
on a political fault line00:40:25
unimpressive00:40:27
but last question on that is00:40:30
because we have analyzes like that for you00:40:31
did you see there is an article in Germany00:40:34
which was published and who said that00:40:36
[Music]00:40:37
is a major national article that says the00:40:40
RN is now presidential is that00:40:42
that you think that the RN is coming out big00:40:44
winner of this demonstration STATIS00:40:46
yes undoubtedly I believe that this00:40:48
that the macronie prepares it is until00:40:51
now we knew that Macron cannot00:40:54
succeed only if the Marine Le Pen opposite00:40:57
okay that's that's really that's its00:40:58
life insurance eh I mean everything00:41:00
Paris of macronie that is to say of a00:41:01
minority bourgeois bloc which is00:41:04
structurally minority which is not00:41:05
just temporarily or00:41:06
conjunctural it is to be able00:41:08
win in elections of this type in00:41:10
second round because he has in front of him00:41:11
the extreme right and by bringing into play the00:41:13
blackmail to the extreme right since the00:41:15
start ok but now with the00:41:18
repressive authoritarian hardening00:41:21
Islamophobic he prepares and there a new00:41:23
threshold was obviously crossed at00:41:25
the opportunity since since October 700:41:27
he is preparing an alternation scenario where00:41:31
the RN and the other pole of the00:41:34
the alternation entirely acceptable00:41:37
quite normally we had already seen it at00:41:39
moment of the presidency of in in the00:41:41
institutional game of the presidencies of00:41:42
the assembly et cetera now it's00:41:44
confirmed once again there is the00:41:47
new great national consensus or00:41:51
so-called republican or struggle00:41:53
against anti-Semitism once serves as00:41:56
more more to designate the enemy within00:41:58
which lumps together Muslims and the left00:42:01
friends of Islamo terrorists00:42:04
leftist that's it so it's it's I00:42:08
believe that it is something that is00:42:09
really extremely dangerous I have the00:42:12
privilege of age here among you in00:42:15
plus the very relative privilege of having00:42:17
campaigned in the French Communist Party in00:42:19
the 80s for having lived anyway00:42:22
the old political landscape eh when it00:42:24
there were communist ministers in00:42:25
government that there was a00:42:26
anti-communist outburst when we00:42:28
heard about the socialists00:42:30
communists when people after the00:42:31
victory of mitteran have crossed the00:42:33
border to Switzerland for is it00:42:36
not invest put put their00:42:38
savings in bans in banks00:42:39
Swiss well here I am I have all that00:42:41
for me it's images, that's it00:42:43
these are images that speak but that00:42:45
honestly seems anecdotal to me00:42:48
compared to what we are currently experiencing00:42:49
today there was a game that00:42:51
was certainly very polarized with00:42:53
cleavage lines which were very00:42:54
clear but which was done between00:42:56
political adversaries who were the00:42:58
political opponents of this is such00:43:00
that the political landscape was configured00:43:02
the French Communist Party was a00:43:03
great political force which made00:43:05
part and so on there we are truly00:43:07
passed into something else and it's not00:43:08
not by chance if obviously we00:43:10
found with an extreme right who00:43:12
has the weight that it there and and and above all00:43:15
a level as Jean-Marie said in00:43:17
question of the upenization of minds00:43:19
that he has it totally has it totally00:43:22
carried away the Gabre and then I think00:43:24
that you want to react Paul no I am00:43:26
agree with what has just been said00:43:27
that's why I used everything00:43:28
the time the expression they have yesterday the the00:43:31
national gathering was not carried00:43:33
not not that the national gathering he00:43:35
reconquest too eh it struck me00:43:37
I turned on BFM it was 10 minutes00:43:41
non-stop interview with Zemour and00:43:44
Mario marshal still good with everything00:43:47
everything everything they could say everything00:43:49
more reactionary you die what's the point00:43:51
in short they I used the expression00:43:54
just now they were brought under00:43:56
on the Bâtismau funds uh frankly00:43:58
we have known that for some time he00:44:01
there is the operation of trivialization and00:44:03
normalization of the RN hercilia and I00:44:06
sees it concretely since they have00:44:09
still 89 deputies or 88 I know00:44:11
never but hey it doesn't matter to to to00:44:14
the Assembly00:44:15
national with a little game with the00:44:18
Macronist relative majority which makes00:44:22
that basically he yields mutually when00:44:24
even he that's still what he's talking about00:44:26
is about and what has struck me since00:44:28
that that I was elected deputy is to00:44:31
how uh it flows perfectly00:44:34
in the mold of institutions uh this00:44:37
are notables it's really from and00:44:39
and and and their entire strategy aims to00:44:42
notarize to gain respectability00:44:45
and yesterday there was a step that was taken00:44:47
yesterday the CRAN which was crossed is00:44:50
uh well we have an alternative00:44:53
credible because we must never forget00:44:55
one thing I am convinced that00:44:57
the 5th Republic is completely exhausted00:44:59
racing she is completely00:45:02
rotting we still live a00:45:04
situation where moreover we can we00:45:06
can talk about it since today we00:45:08
has just undergone the 17th00:45:11
493 this power is weak it is00:45:14
minority he is a minority in the00:45:15
country he is in the minority in the Assembly he00:45:17
can only continue to move forward through00:45:20
systematic coup of force and by00:45:23
repression that simply accompanies it00:45:25
all this even they know it from one side00:45:28
somehow it can only fit one00:45:30
time so in these conditions yes to00:45:34
a given moment including the RN becomes00:45:36
for them a credible alternative00:45:38
I'm not making this up, Daranin said it00:45:41
last August it seems to me I know00:45:43
more how he phrased things00:45:45
but he had said it clearly so to00:45:48
part of the bourgeoisie are00:45:51
people who who who who who can very00:45:53
well exercise later the power to see00:45:56
and and and soon in any case me00:45:59
it seems obvious to me for everyone in the00:46:01
meaning both is that the chain00:46:02
of equivalence to speak a little like00:46:04
the CL but which is an image that I00:46:05
found between the different lines00:46:07
that we were sold as very00:46:08
different is xenophobia and00:46:09
Islamophobia and from there it goes00:46:11
then be a second consequence00:46:13
also the question of reducing00:46:14
public freedoms eh because when00:46:15
we designate an enemy it is first of all for00:46:17
treat it as such and it is therefore00:46:19
develop devices00:46:20
police and security personnel who affect00:46:22
the whole of society but we know00:46:23
well so it's an equivalent string and00:46:26
what is very dangerous is that the00:46:27
fact that individual personalities00:46:29
right he do it regularly00:46:32
once again I'm not my00:46:33
obsession noise but Eric cotti what00:46:35
is the difference between Eric cotti and ti00:46:37
Mariani Mariani left for the RN so00:46:39
a little more coherent at the limit00:46:40
he assumes it but it's the same thing00:46:42
besides the young republicans00:46:43
had shared a week ago a00:46:45
call a leaflet talking about00:46:48
dangers of mass immigration00:46:50
vocabulary and more than00:46:52
difference between LR and RN that’s why00:46:53
that centered on the RN 50 shade of FAF and00:46:57
so no but finally here I am speaking a00:46:59
little because it annoys me but00:47:01
problem is that this channel00:47:02
of equivalence it is not made by00:47:03
individuals who00:47:04
pour out a speech she does it in00:47:06
the media S we saw it on Sunday00:47:08
it was the fic wow because they are not00:47:10
came the next day it's the Muslims00:47:12
cut because they didn't come tomorrow00:47:14
we don't know it will be the lfists00:47:16
Muslims I don't know if there are any00:47:17
a lot and and now it's the00:47:20
power which organizes this chain of00:47:22
kalance because once again it's00:47:24
a call from the president of the assembly00:47:25
national and the president of the Senate it is00:47:27
that these are structures00:47:28
institutions that lay the foundations00:47:29
he for this equivalence chain and I00:47:31
I will remind that who has the union project00:47:32
rights eh so who is it bah00:47:35
it's the emourists it was their00:47:36
program so for the moment it doesn't work00:47:38
market because there is resilience00:47:39
finally there is there is a membership00:47:41
extremely strongpart of00:47:42
the popular electorate who votes Marine Le00:47:43
Pen has his project which was rejected very00:47:45
magic who rejected ERC Zemour if you00:47:47
basically look at ERC Zemour he takes 1700:47:49
% of Marine Le Pen electorate in 201700:47:51
first round but where is he doing00:47:52
his scores he makes his scores in Nice at00:47:54
Cannes in the 16th arrondissement and00:47:55
It is00:47:58
and yet I say00:48:01
well I'm just saying that at the moment00:48:03
institutionally and the parties which00:48:05
have precisely this respectability00:48:07
bourgeois notability begins to00:48:09
organize their long alignment on this00:48:11
question it becomes extremely00:48:13
dangerous and I will give one last00:48:14
example this question of notability00:48:15
then I was a parliamentary attaché00:48:17
at the Assembly I have a friend who told me00:48:19
recently revealed the fact that when00:48:21
you arrive on 89 deputies in the Assembly00:48:24
national part of attached00:48:26
parliamentarians are the elders00:48:27
republican parliamentary attachés00:48:29
and it's not very surprising but it's00:48:30
interesting to say it is that there is a00:48:32
time when to be able to enter into00:48:33
institutions and take practices and00:48:36
know how it works and so on00:48:37
there is always in times of crisis00:48:39
staff retraining policy00:48:40
politics we saw it in the macronie00:48:42
and we saw it here is recycling of00:48:45
personal and I think it's still00:48:46
once very dangerous because we00:48:48
cannot underestimate the fact that00:48:50
Emmanuel Macron reorganized part00:48:52
of the electoral scene in a very00:48:54
very very significant over 10 years ago00:48:57
still had few people if you00:48:58
look at the electoral bases he00:49:00
of the parties before the bloc of00:49:02
right the left block well we talked00:49:03
just now from the bourgeois palon bloc00:49:05
barignier am they showed it well but00:49:07
there the the the ability to tilt00:49:10
the right electorate by Macron00:49:12
recovery of the Fillon vote for example00:49:14
he is someone who was able to00:49:15
these strategies he to reorganize a block00:49:18
as he could and besides00:49:20
first thing to be able to reorganize00:49:21
this block at the second quinena it's it's00:49:23
no more pretensions that we are00:49:24
sociol liberax00:49:26
abandoned GAE here is the so-called ga of00:49:29
Macron here and this reorganization00:49:31
it is therefore done on the question of00:49:32
Islamophobia and when Muslims00:49:33
are not available to hit them00:49:34
it's just foreigners eh confire00:49:36
laame and we told you there since the00:49:40
since it's been a very long time since00:49:41
Lafi has been criticized even more since the00:49:44
legislative but I have the impression that00:49:46
it's been even more intense since00:49:47
on October 7 and we see that all00:49:50
the positions of the fi are00:49:51
systematically criticized we even see00:49:54
that we're going to look for anything00:49:56
to attack them we see Mélenchon00:49:58
where every statement is scrutinized for00:50:00
see an anti-Semitic dog whistle me00:50:03
I asked the question what is00:50:05
what does Clive do?00:50:06
Is it Palestine that Cleaves?00:50:08
these are the positions taken on the00:50:09
Palestine which Cleaves is it the00:50:10
fi who Clive or in fact it's both00:50:13
Palestine and there and in fact there is a00:50:15
squared divide and Islamophobia too00:50:17
yeah and islamophobia how you00:50:20
what is it for you who who who00:50:21
really explain what it is00:50:22
more Palestine the yew or both00:50:25
I think that butch he is he is00:50:26
hated for a long time by the00:50:28
political staff who is not the fi00:50:31
actually eh because I think he has00:50:32
he has opponents almost everywhere00:50:34
uh as well as00:50:36
the electorate I think that Palestine00:50:38
to reuse an expression that is00:50:40
dear to Youssef, this is it00:50:42
we really have proof from Palestine00:50:43
because it's it's it's it's you00:50:45
can you explain what the evidence is?00:50:46
by Palestine we often say it but00:50:48
we often say it among ourselves but00:50:49
big, it’s the idea that Palestine00:50:50
will play the role finally the question00:50:52
Palestinian she will play the role of00:50:53
often revealing on the00:50:55
national political chessboards and she00:50:57
going to do what subjects often00:50:59
local subjects are not going to do00:51:01
that is to say that it will in fact reveal00:51:03
of the cleavages even of00:51:04
organizations this is typically the case00:51:05
of the fi today uh than others00:51:08
subjects are not going to be on which we00:51:10
will generally succeed in finding a terra00:51:11
understanding and there for once bah la00:51:12
Palestinian question but why00:51:14
is she capable of of of of of of00:51:16
to highlight00:51:18
separation at that very of of of of00:51:21
the organization that we will call laanupes00:51:23
and she's going to say bring to the00:51:25
caricature the hatred of mement by00:51:27
his adversaries well it's because00:51:29
it's the meeting between bah00:51:30
Islamophobia which has become bah which00:51:33
reached the stage of metastasis in00:51:34
France he I mean there really me00:51:36
my family who is in Morocco sees this00:51:37
and she pulls her hair out what Mo00:51:39
I really have people who say but00:51:40
what's happening to you it's a thing00:51:42
crazy it's not possible it's not00:51:44
possible because in fact they have the00:51:45
TV there so they see its news and00:51:46
cetera and in fact they don't know that00:51:48
it's a far-right channel so00:51:49
they think it's a chain that the00:51:50
people normally look and they see00:51:52
anti-Semitism couscous all that they00:51:54
see what they say what is happening00:51:55
in in this country because it we00:51:57
seems like it wasn't like that ago00:51:58
10 years or 15 years which is by the way00:51:59
true therefore therefore therefore there is there is this00:52:02
subject of Islamophobia and then there is00:52:05
anti-Semitism which plays a role in00:52:07
political strategies which is very00:52:08
particularly in France that it really00:52:11
been a topic that for a while00:52:12
now is used as a that does00:52:15
already long years eh that's it00:52:16
used as a kind of spray00:52:17
paralyzing for a long time00:52:19
dates and besides I want to say it00:52:21
still dirtying this fight00:52:23
often because in fact what is it00:52:24
that there is more00:52:25
dirty for the fight against00:52:27
anti-Semitism than assimilating00:52:29
way definitively the Jews00:52:31
and Israel while I have plenty00:52:33
friends israeli jewish00:52:35
rather y am it's true we also have00:52:39
friends00:52:41
Israelisis I have knowledge00:52:42
then not necessarily friends of00:52:43
Israeli acquaintances who want00:52:44
not hear about colonization00:52:46
who don't want to hear about00:52:47
languid who question everything00:52:49
those who didn't go so far as to give up00:52:51
their passport for now because00:52:52
it is true that the Israeli passport00:52:53
confers many privileges including00:52:55
privileges of access to land that00:52:57
do not have Palestinian friends and00:52:58
cetera but there are lots of people00:53:01
who don't actually want to be associated00:53:02
irrevocably to the company00:53:05
Zionist in fact and there is no more00:53:07
more disgusting I find than to associate00:53:10
in such an obvious way00:53:11
seems to be obvious to them00:53:13
fact that being anti-Zionist and being00:53:14
anti-semitic it's the same thing then00:53:15
that on the contrary it is precisely the00:53:17
fact of associating and coup t of forces t00:53:19
Jews to make a takeover bid on them for00:53:21
justify what is happening00:53:23
in palisine that's what's disgusting00:53:24
and I think it's the meeting00:53:25
between this sensitive subject of00:53:26
anti-Semitism and Islamophobia00:53:29
metastasized which makes the question00:53:31
Palestinian she will become a00:53:33
revealing of what that of that of that00:53:36
that this political chessboard is really00:53:37
melons against all wholesale00:53:41
or all against melch all cont m Jérôme00:53:44
leave then several points the the the00:53:46
first is that it is true that we00:53:48
reached there a00:53:50
degree we are in a situation me we00:53:53
would have told me a year ago that the start of the school year00:53:55
for example that the start of the school year00:53:57
would play on the question of the BAA ah or00:53:59
we forgot as we forgot I have00:54:01
forgot all that all all that for00:54:03
for to support what what what what what00:54:05
you just said no it's it's we're00:54:07
still we are we are still00:54:09
completely we fell on our heads00:54:11
what I have in my constituency00:54:13
met at the start of the school year00:54:15
establishment who told me listen00:54:16
I spent the morning staring at00:54:18
young girl to find out if she was wearing00:54:20
an abaya or a long dress frankly00:54:23
Mister Deputy I have better things to do00:54:25
well uh well that was just for for00:54:30
support and and underline what what you00:54:32
just said but to return to the00:54:33
question of relentlessness against00:54:35
girls uh me I said it right away00:54:38
time but I really insist on it because00:54:39
that I I I think it's it's it's00:54:41
really the determining question uh this00:54:44
which is worth to rebellious France this00:54:47
relentlessness is the fact that it exists00:54:50
in this country in in the context in00:54:51
which situation we are in00:54:53
were talking about earlier, you underlined the00:54:55
extremely tense character uh on the plan00:54:57
social in in in this country and and00:55:00
all the reasons are accumulated for00:55:02
whether it is extraordinarily tense and00:55:04
so that it is so that it is00:55:06
always more well the fact that in00:55:09
this situation there is a movement of00:55:10
mass because once again the00:55:11
France insoumise is dozens and00:55:13
tens of thousands of people00:55:15
who organize themselves into groups00:55:16
of action et cetera which is located on00:55:19
this breaking line this this this this this00:55:22
it really scares them and I00:55:25
I would like to give an illustration of00:55:27
That00:55:28
uh the the the British government00:55:32
in relation to the situation in Gaza00:55:35
same orientation as the government00:55:37
French the Biden government has the00:55:40
same orientation as the government00:55:42
French everyone explains to us in detail00:55:45
wide and across that he could not00:55:47
be a question of stopping the fire well00:55:49
so they have the same orientation uh he00:55:52
only the French government has00:55:53
taken at first and it lasted00:55:55
at least 3 weeks for the decision00:55:57
to ban demonstrations00:55:59
absolutely and systematically so that00:56:02
the demonstrations took place it was necessary00:56:05
go it was necessary to file summary proceedings in00:56:08
justice to obtain their authorization00:56:10
somehow and there are00:56:11
demonstrations which were notably at00:56:13
Paris purely and simply prohibited00:56:15
I remember in particular one00:56:17
demonstration to which I attended00:56:18
arrived uh where we were Nassé by by the00:56:22
police on the same day there was more00:56:25
of 100,000 demonstrators in London or good00:56:27
SO00:56:29
uh and the prefect recognized that it was00:56:32
not for reasons of public order00:56:35
moral reasons the reasons put forward by00:56:36
the police chief was just00:56:39
astonishing so it highlights the00:56:41
special place of France00:56:43
rebellious for the reasons that I have I have00:56:44
I indicated in in in the landscape00:56:48
French politics and that's the reason00:56:49
for which they always go more00:56:52
far in the attacks so there00:56:53
today he says what you said00:56:55
i.e. anti-Zionism and synonym00:57:00
of anti-Semitism I am convinced00:57:02
moreover that there would not have been this00:57:04
uh operation that we were talking about earlier00:57:07
the time i.e. yesterday's demonstration00:57:10
it would not have taken this form if it00:57:12
was not in the political situation00:57:14
the special place of France00:57:16
rebellious it was also an operation00:57:18
policy to be able to designate for00:57:20
discredit disqualify France00:57:23
rebellious I think that in the end00:57:24
it will be a failure but but but it00:57:26
It was necessary as you said earlier00:57:28
hercilia actually corners the00:57:30
Rebellious France and final point00:57:32
maybe we can do more00:57:33
cornerers who play as defenders00:57:36
of the Arab Muslim community00:57:39
and maybe that plays a role too ah00:57:41
well given the buttons on which00:57:43
they support I'm not going to repeat what00:57:44
I said that earlier about the BAA00:57:46
it's sure that that that that that that fits00:57:48
obviously in this context and on the fact00:57:50
that Palestine the question00:57:51
Palestinian be a revealer uh00:57:54
I was going to say this has been the case since00:57:56
for decades anyway00:57:58
the creation of the State of Israel in00:58:00
the conditions in which he was00:58:02
created on the basis of the expropriation of00:58:04
a whole people and the negation of its00:58:06
right to land and its sovereignty00:58:10
coincides with the end of the Second War00:58:13
world that is to say coincides with the00:58:15
the creation of the world order resulting00:58:18
immediately after second00:58:21
world war and the question00:58:22
Palestinian clashes and resistance00:58:24
of this people today crushed under the00:58:27
bombs but still resists00:58:29
for 75 years I mean the the the00:58:32
Palestinians who live in Jordan who00:58:34
are refugees in Jordan who are00:58:36
refugees in Lebanon you have00:58:38
thousands of families who have00:58:40
kept the key to the house who who who00:58:43
who was their but but of course who00:58:46
was confiscated from them at the time of00:58:47
first nagba in 48 and then and then00:58:50
then unfortunately there was a00:58:51
replica packet and therefore the question00:58:53
Palestinian she00:58:55
the world order the imperialist order I00:58:58
I don't know who was talking earlier about00:58:59
fight against imperialism is also00:59:02
yes that's also what it's about00:59:04
anyway sta that's it that's the word00:59:06
key is that the key word is that we00:59:09
can of course I mean we00:59:12
even forgives a conviction of00:59:14
Islamophobia we will say soft00:59:17
moral which is good to take too00:59:20
eh good for example the worms the ver we00:59:22
can't say it's a party00:59:23
islamophobic towards its a party which00:59:25
condemns Islamophobia which has00:59:27
relatively clear positions00:59:29
but it’s not obviously anti-racism00:59:31
combative who seeks to create00:59:32
truly links precisely with00:59:35
racialized populations with00:59:36
racialized neighborhoods that take their side00:59:38
who literally fights alongside them00:59:40
that's a first cause but then00:59:42
there you dissociate yourself00:59:44
dissociate yourself from this Western order00:59:47
you are like Mélenchon who they say00:59:49
is not France is not a00:59:50
Western power which defends00:59:52
non-alignment which refuses to support the00:59:55
western camp in the in the case of00:59:57
the war in Ukraine you were two00:59:58
fingers I00:59:59
think I mention the specific case we had01:00:02
already the beginnings of proof by Ukraine01:00:05
but obviously with Palestine that01:00:06
takes on even greater proportions01:00:08
clear here I would like to remind you when01:00:10
even good I I I I taught for01:00:12
20 years in British academia01:00:14
I saw I saw the Corbine experience of01:00:16
start to finish on what did he have01:00:19
been the most attacked precisely in01:00:21
manufacturer from scratch01:00:23
accusation of anti-Semitism01:00:26
against him why precisely because01:00:28
what made Corbin unacceptable01:00:30
It wasn’t just his program.01:00:31
advanced social which was otherwise01:00:33
very popular it was difficult to01:00:34
attack him on this because everything01:00:36
that he defends the nationalization of01:00:37
railways and so on are things01:00:39
which are archipular on the other hand this01:00:40
that we didn't forgive him is that01:00:42
Corbin was the first leader in01:00:45
the history of the Labor Party to have01:00:47
positions of condemnation of01:00:50
the imperialism of its imperialism01:00:51
British is someone who had01:00:53
already on Ireland I mean we have him01:00:54
criticized all his positions01:00:56
on the question of the struggle of01:00:58
of the Irish and obviously his01:01:00
support for the cause01:01:01
Palestinian and we all went up01:01:03
documents a case of anti-Semitism against01:01:05
he who played an extremely01:01:07
important with brexit of course for01:01:09
finally marginalize him for the for the01:01:10
undo inside one's own01:01:12
gone it's exactly the same the same01:01:14
type of operation we do now01:01:17
that we now do in France with01:01:18
obviously repeating here's all01:01:21
the light motifs that have been mentioned here01:01:23
V that Israel you are anti-Zionist therefore01:01:27
you are anti-Semitic et cetera Macron01:01:29
went so far as to say it openly01:01:31
BDS it must be said, eh, the campaign01:01:34
boycott people who don't stop01:01:35
to say violence is terrible01:01:38
We need a Pacific strategy01:01:41
makes peaceful strategies what01:01:43
more peaceful than the campaign of01:01:44
boycott of divestments and01:01:47
and sanctions and well it is she who01:01:48
is precisely literally in France01:01:50
criminalized not only in France but01:01:52
we still went extremely far01:01:53
eh uh uh la la the ban on01:01:56
manifestations also you may have01:01:58
read this absolutely incredible thing on01:02:00
government interior minister01:02:02
Italian far-right Tajjani who01:02:05
condemned who said no that's when01:02:07
even excessive to condemn all01:02:09
man all the manifestations of01:02:11
solidarity with Palestine in France01:02:13
an Italian interior minister01:02:15
far right uh who who who01:02:18
criticizes the Macron government01:02:19
Did we get to where we came from?01:02:21
the importance I mean and well that01:02:23
that has to be said, eh, it’s not because01:02:25
that I I I'm not just saying it to01:02:26
award me in some way01:02:28
patents here because I read in the01:02:29
France rebellious but in this context01:02:32
it is particularly important to01:02:34
hold on precisely not to give in to this01:02:37
type of pressure and I believe it creates01:02:39
political links and quality01:02:42
political that perhaps at the moment we01:02:45
doesn't realize what she can01:02:46
give as a result but we will see01:02:48
very quickly in my opinion the solidity of this01:02:50
which is being built in01:02:52
the fire, as it were, of conflict01:02:54
today of the class conflict of01:02:55
social conflict, political conflict and01:02:57
ideological which is carried out today in01:02:59
France just to clarify about Jérémy01:03:01
corbine there is an excellent article by01:03:02
Thierry Labica on contetemps who01:03:04
looks back on this entire campaign01:03:06
defamation of anti-Semitism which was01:03:09
victim corbine hercilia souet yes me01:03:12
I just wanted to share a01:03:14
little anecdote to show how01:03:15
level of absurdity in fact we arrive01:03:17
in our country because just now01:03:19
you were talking about your family in Morocco who01:03:21
reacted from afar and I would like01:03:23
share the reaction of Japanese who01:03:25
are even more01:03:26
far because in fact some time01:03:29
after October 7th well I had a01:03:31
trip to Japan which I failed01:03:32
not being able to participate since we have01:03:34
tried to stop me under the pretext01:03:36
that my positions on the Middle East01:03:38
are incompatible with the fact of01:03:40
return to Japan brief none01:03:42
brief report but still it is that at01:03:46
Japan I had devoted a few days to01:03:48
meet feminists and01:03:49
Japanese communists to talk about01:03:51
women's rights and uh actually01:03:53
several of them the first thing01:03:55
that they told me it's but what is it01:03:57
what is happening in France what is happening01:03:58
goes to France why don't you arrive01:04:00
not to demonstrate why there are some who01:04:01
get arrested why finally we01:04:03
manages to manifest and when we know01:04:05
Japan we know that it's not the the the01:04:07
the country of the demonstration elsewhere01:04:09
I participated in a01:04:10
demonstration in Japan the cops were01:04:13
ok then after 50 people you01:04:15
you divide in two otherwise it's not01:04:16
manageable eh so there you go01:04:19
so it's very academic yes three01:04:22
people per row et cetera brief but01:04:24
uh if even the Japanese come to this01:04:26
say but uh how come01:04:28
what is happening in France how01:04:29
Is it that you can't manage to01:04:31
to manifest is that already it is01:04:32
really the GIS who has who has a problem01:04:34
seems that the two countries where it is01:04:35
the more difficult it was it was01:04:36
Germany and France even in Israel01:04:37
it was easier to demonstrate against01:04:39
against the war and Germany there is01:04:41
there is still a story01:04:42
historical explanation but I01:04:43
would like to add something01:04:46
the question of the fi or the ei or the01:04:48
Palestine well that obviously seems to me01:04:50
both but to show that it is01:04:51
really both there is something in fact01:04:53
it's that the situation presented itself01:04:54
like a real paradox, well I have01:04:56
I have nothing against fi I did it01:04:57
Jean-Luc's campaign in 2012 I have it01:04:59
done in 2022 in 2017 I lived in01:05:01
Palestine I didn't have time uh but01:05:03
I say rebellious France has never01:05:05
spearheaded the issue01:05:07
Palestinian in France h I say01:05:09
excuse me eh I say there are01:05:10
personalities I think of you I think of01:05:12
Daniel Bono who spoke out01:05:13
Besides, it’s very easy to see01:05:15
what are the personalities we are01:05:16
took a strong position on the issue01:05:17
palestinian at fi because generally01:05:19
they are they are undergoing a01:05:20
absolutely incredible harassment01:05:22
and who is rarely condemned by the01:05:24
political class but I wasn't01:05:26
rather the PCF which raised this question01:05:27
there was the PCF indeed for me that was01:05:31
one of my first fights when I was01:05:32
to the PC at the time et cetera and I say01:05:34
I even remember in 2017 M chose01:05:36
for my part in the 80s I have to01:05:38
say eh I was at the c and at the act01:05:40
it was really we were we were very01:05:41
isolated from elsewhere apart from the extreme left01:05:43
I mean we were completely isolated01:05:44
on this question me first01:05:46
political campaign that I led when01:05:47
I was 15 so 16 years ago01:05:49
it was the release of Marwan Barouti01:05:51
OK and then but then no no but01:05:55
with the with the Communist Youth with01:05:57
including the liberation campaign01:05:59
of Salah Hamouri who was already01:06:01
imprisoned for the first time good01:06:03
what happened how did it happen01:06:04
fact that France I have memories of01:06:06
Jean-Luc Mélenchon in 2017 who says where01:06:09
there uh even very we will say lukewarm in01:06:12
saying I don't want to import the01:06:13
conflict in France and that doesn't mean01:06:15
that I question the combativeness of01:06:18
comrades of France to penny today01:06:19
I'm just saying that it wasn't the01:06:21
the subject where they were most01:06:22
positioned my reason that I put forward01:06:25
is that rebellious France is a01:06:26
very particular militant composition01:06:28
you have people who have for example01:06:29
cut their teeth on the radical left01:06:31
I think this is the case for madam01:06:32
obono I think who was in the League01:06:33
it seems to me and and and other people01:06:35
who suddenly have this heritage of struggles01:06:37
anti-imperialists to take back the01:06:39
also anti-racist training, all that01:06:41
there are others who come01:06:42
rather socialist Gal and it was01:06:43
not the place where we sleep best01:06:45
on the Palestinian question excuse me01:06:46
to do it to emphasize it but suddenly01:06:48
whatever and this organization which has01:06:51
just took a position that was01:06:53
wait, a few things are happening and01:06:54
very quickly we call to the c again01:06:56
times and who offered himself in his01:06:58
reading to follow international law01:07:00
and finally who really tried to play01:07:01
the game whatever they say they had01:07:03
wrong they were wrong from the start01:07:05
and the second question is that well01:07:07
so for me it's a01:07:08
obvious paradox that it is on them that01:07:10
lightning strikes say media then01:07:13
well that's it but secondly I01:07:15
would say that was also why01:07:16
it was that in fact part of the01:07:18
left stuck 30 years ago01:07:20
about Oslo it must be said very01:07:22
calmly and there are reasons01:07:24
historical also for that when you01:07:25
have left-wing organizations01:07:26
Marxist in the 70s very very01:07:29
powerful within the space of01:07:31
the Palestinian struggle eh I think of01:07:32
Popular Front for the Liberation of01:07:34
Palestine at the Democratic Front of01:07:35
liberation of Palestine a certain01:07:36
number of the HB chares the Party of01:07:39
Palestinian people former party01:07:40
communist well there you have some01:07:42
connections that were made what01:07:43
what happens if you look at me when01:07:44
I was at the PC we were making some01:07:46
delegations we sent people and then01:07:47
we met the communists a little01:07:49
premises in betlahem next to birzet in01:07:51
picked up and then we were going to see01:07:53
the Palestinian authority is posed in01:07:54
one because it was easier because01:07:57
that how do you make a line01:07:58
anti-imperialist when the color01:07:59
politics of organizations that01:08:00
Palestinians no longer equip themselves01:08:02
Marxism Hellenism but which is by01:08:04
example of people who claim their01:08:06
Islamic identity and who are the01:08:08
Hamas the Islamic dad and so on01:08:10
you had a moment where there was a01:08:11
pause in Oslo music from01:08:13
the left on these fights with a01:08:15
difficulty finding partners01:08:16
to which there are affinities01:08:18
ideological and suddenly well yeah that01:08:21
was played on collectives on01:08:23
very militant people in different01:08:25
spaces but the left already had on the01:08:26
Palestinian question changed a little01:08:29
position she was in any case troubled01:08:30
she didn't really know that she was01:08:32
react to the disappearance of01:08:33
Marxist referent of I think and01:08:36
well there are people who have01:08:38
toid positions which continued to01:08:40
to see this analysis grid of01:08:42
commit but not in such a way01:08:43
collective within the01:08:44
left-wing organizations in any case I01:08:45
found and in any case there was some but01:08:47
it wasn't necessarily France to sou01:08:48
who was the spear doer of this01:08:50
fight there in France and they were made01:08:51
get high just because they held01:08:53
that's why to come back to the01:08:54
question they held the position01:08:56
policy of rupture they told us01:08:58
will not give up there is someone who had01:08:59
tweeted there really really there was01:09:01
only BAFF to take and they are01:09:03
arrived and said we are volunteers but01:09:04
it’s because suddenly there is this01:09:05
political ethics of rupture there is01:09:06
the ability once again to say I01:09:08
refuses that the agenda itself is dictated by the01:09:10
power ok political power in terms of01:09:13
you have to think about it internationally01:09:14
you have to think about that inside you have to01:09:15
think systematically and that's it and01:09:18
then what you said01:09:19
on the Palistian question I am01:09:20
okay it's a revealer it's01:09:21
still a scar on the face of01:09:23
world of then and well I don't like you01:09:27
add something just one thing01:09:28
concerning France to submit to me I01:09:29
I agree with what Paul is coming from01:09:31
just said it's it's actually01:09:33
one one let's say a composite militant body01:09:36
actually people who have01:09:37
the clearest positions01:09:39
clearer are those which come from01:09:41
current of the radical left with a01:09:43
anti-imperialist culture but there is a01:09:44
another element which plays not only01:09:46
in rebellious France but in general01:09:48
in the French configuration he01:09:50
historically to go quickly it is the01:09:52
gisme uh uh we have a tendency to01:09:54
forget it but for me Mélenchon is01:09:56
a sort of syncretism between a01:09:59
between a left-wing Gaulism and a01:10:01
anti-imperialism to sensitivity01:10:03
Tiermondist on the one hand he is very very01:10:05
trendy Latin America et cetera01:10:07
the other side there is this idea of a01:10:09
France strong but not aligned open to01:10:12
south et cetera and and which dissociates01:10:14
precisely from Israel he because that's it01:10:16
also I mean eh this this current01:10:19
existed within the family01:10:21
socialist but in a very01:10:22
minority he historically the current01:10:24
French social democrat is a current01:10:26
very pro-Israeli very pro-Zionist and01:10:29
very Atlanticist eh it’s really there01:10:30
politics of the third force01:10:32
but with Israel there is something01:10:33
particular he the SFIO of guimolet has01:10:36
played played a role played a role01:10:38
history it is they who made known01:10:40
they are the ones who gave nuclear weapons01:10:43
in Israel it was really something01:10:45
a kind of gift from the of the of01:10:46
governments led by the SFIO01:10:49
it's it's it's it's by the way01:10:50
historically an extremely family01:10:51
linked to colonialism, I mean01:10:52
all that all that and and and all that is01:10:55
very coherent godism is erect01:10:57
against that eh for good for everyone01:10:58
a number of reasons which01:11:00
also in defense of imperialism01:11:01
French but which was combined with01:11:03
extremely positive aspects in terms of01:11:05
of international politics I read01:11:08
things and and you can chat with01:11:10
Cubans for example or01:11:11
Latin Americans to see how01:11:12
Cubans have perceived goulinism and there is01:11:15
something of that which remains in this01:11:17
famous image of France which01:11:18
now is a thing of the past okay01:11:20
now people people belong01:11:21
there is a city, not it's the01:11:22
last one here01:11:25
here it is a kind of here it is a01:11:27
sort of collector's item we say01:11:29
it's the last it's the last goist01:11:31
who stays and who who reminds us01:11:33
that it was indeed a tradition01:11:35
who had honorable aspects which01:11:37
also not honorable aspects at all01:11:39
but who has honorable aspects and who01:11:41
on this question still played a role01:11:42
role01:11:43
important in the formation of01:11:45
French politics but also in01:11:47
public opinion in the terms of01:11:49
public debate in this country and it is01:11:50
obviously something that on the one hand01:11:52
I mean the disintegration of01:11:55
the right of the family01:11:57
gouiste but also the fact that in the01:11:58
left before we said that it was01:12:00
rather the non-communist left and not01:12:02
extreme left he of course eh who01:12:03
was characterized by taking01:12:05
pro-Israeli and pro-Zionist position01:12:07
very strong now we see it reforming01:12:10
indeed a comparable type of cleavage01:12:13
but which has its own logic it is not01:12:15
not a simple continuation obviously01:12:18
lines from the past when ago01:12:20
even a recreation01:12:21
enters on the left a pole which has a01:12:23
anticolonial sensitivity01:12:25
anti-imperialist who assumes this01:12:27
both on the internal front and on the01:12:29
front on the front of the struggle01:12:31
international and there is a left which01:12:33
on social issues or other01:12:35
can have positions yes with01:12:37
which we can discuss with01:12:38
which we can have points01:12:40
okay but but but on that it doesn't01:12:42
it's not going at all and it's and it's01:12:43
on this in the end that the01:12:46
left are always the most the most01:12:47
faced eh I want to point out to you01:12:49
that the great split of the left of01:12:51
20th century between revolutionary garlic01:12:53
she who was not, did not01:12:54
made on how much was needed01:12:56
of nationalization how much does it01:12:58
It was necessary and this was done on the01:12:59
question of war imperialism01:13:00
imperialists and and colonialism01:13:02
OK, so these are things.01:13:04
who work over the long term under01:13:06
obviously different forms and which01:13:08
are they renewed?01:13:10
so there if I understand correctly there is01:13:13
not much to complain about01:13:15
positions in relation to Palestine01:13:16
so individual yes still when01:13:20
even then we're going to do I would have liked one01:13:22
little more I would have liked on this01:13:25
let's say a little more than01:13:28
discipline eh and and assume uh well we01:13:34
knows them all say the voices the voices01:13:36
the deciding votes were Ruffin01:13:38
it was mercifully at the and it is01:13:41
also the difficulty it gbire and garido01:13:42
are gorbierre and garido its we go we go01:13:45
talk again we're going to talk again but he01:13:46
seems that for example Clementin01:13:48
and if if if if no no it's deputies01:13:51
it's true that they come from other organizations01:13:52
of France insoumise deputies and and and we01:13:55
knows it's not revealed any big secret01:13:57
that Daniel auono was taken to01:14:00
left within the group itself01:14:02
parliamentarian of France01:14:04
rebellious and that's it and that's it01:14:06
and that I heard on France Inter01:14:09
it was a few days ago01:14:10
Clémentine tin dare to compare the sanction01:14:14
which was inflicted on Raquel garido with01:14:18
the non-sanction of Daniel Obono who01:14:22
had uh talked about Hamas as01:14:25
that organization of resistance this01:14:27
which I must say is quite up to01:14:28
its honor from my point of view Hamas01:14:30
is one we can disagree with01:14:32
the acts that were committed with his01:14:34
ideology et cetera but it is a01:14:36
organic component of the movement01:14:37
Palestinian national period01:14:40
and so to come back a little to the for01:14:42
come back a little to the fi it's this line01:14:45
of cleavage I believe crosses the fi not01:14:49
just on this question too01:14:51
this is the proof by Palestine01:14:53
it is useful and that must be said01:14:56
dividing line between those who01:14:58
want to stand on a breaking line01:15:00
and those who think that things are fine on the left01:15:03
to do this must be done on the most01:15:05
small common denominator01:15:06
rounding the corners and with a01:15:09
centrist or social democratic soft line01:15:12
as said as said by François Ruffin and01:15:14
sweeping it under the rug isn't it01:15:16
the questions that annoy and who and who01:15:18
Clive01:15:21
precisely clear Clement that that that the01:15:24
bottom of the matter then there is that01:15:26
there are there01:15:28
to these personalities that we already had01:15:30
identified as being we will say the01:15:32
the more the more the more temperate01:15:34
when it comes to these subjects01:15:35
of Islamophobia of police violence01:15:37
how to say anti-imperialism01:15:40
but then you shouldn't either01:15:41
rest on its achievements, that is to say that01:15:43
even when you read the press releases which01:15:45
are produced and the slogans which01:15:47
are bah which are repeated by France01:15:49
rebellious who are good he it's it's the01:15:52
fire is very good but I haven't read01:15:53
many things for example on the01:15:54
blockade for a month I haven't read01:15:57
a lot of things about so it's true01:15:58
that they had voted at the time for01:16:00
recognize it I think almost01:16:02
all of the deputies had01:16:05
voted for the resolution on the issue01:16:06
from the part but I ENF by the Party01:16:09
communist supported by the PCF which is01:16:10
moreover on these subjects but01:16:11
historically we had already said to01:16:13
the time entirely but on the01:16:14
Palestinian question in general they are01:16:15
they are rather clean there they have01:16:17
swimming pool since pi Russell yeah so that01:16:19
that's the problem, actually, that's it01:16:20
the turn we took but what I01:16:21
mean that in fact theoretically01:16:24
on this topic on the question01:16:25
Palestinian and in particular since this01:16:26
which is happening since the01:16:27
January 7 January 7 October 701:16:31
we could be infinitely more01:16:32
virulent all the same, I mean01:16:33
in terms of questioning01:16:35
the order established in the territories of the01:16:37
Palestinian land for at least 2001:16:39
what do I mean 600,000 colonists in01:16:42
sis Jordan the horrible parta that is01:16:44
experienced by Palestinians who live in01:16:46
sisbank there are streets we have the01:16:48
right to go when you are Israeli and01:16:50
not when when you are Palestinian01:16:52
Palestinians who are subject to01:16:53
military courts I don't know01:16:55
how many thousands of prisoners01:16:57
policies that are nothing else01:16:58
only hostages in fact he but is it01:16:59
that you believe that by speaks of liberation01:17:01
hostages but do I owe you01:17:03
say one thing to me the key word is01:17:06
the one that Mathilde Panau pronounced in01:17:08
T these speeches as president of the01:17:10
Effi group is that it is a01:17:13
colonial conflict very good it's it's01:17:15
very good, for me it’s the foundation01:17:17
it's the base and then the fi you have to be01:17:21
lucid about what it is, eh, I01:17:23
come from the communist tradition01:17:25
revolutionary Marxist if you want01:17:27
the fi is not the avant-garde party01:17:29
it's it's a large gathering of01:17:31
force which opens a space and which makes01:17:34
possible a certain number of things01:17:36
it is because we open this space that01:17:38
other movements from other campaigns01:17:40
other initiatives can be01:17:43
develop air in some way01:17:45
sort for and oxygen to be able to01:17:48
deploy have a political relay01:17:51
and can do things to me that's01:17:52
This is how I design at the moment01:17:54
current political fight he doesn't01:17:56
to say here we are in the right position01:17:59
rally us to that otherwise we will hold on01:18:01
opens a space on the basis of that it is01:18:03
possible to take initiatives not01:18:05
not possible absolutely necessary01:18:07
absolutely urgent and vital to take01:18:09
initiatives that will go further01:18:10
and then do you also think01:18:13
that he could go further when we01:18:14
see the pressure there is in this01:18:16
moment when we see when the the that01:18:18
it's herilia whatever it is I see01:18:20
think of Guireot when they take01:18:22
propalestinen positions how they are01:18:25
how they are defamed and01:18:27
I don't know if you saw but there is01:18:29
days we don't know why all of a sudden01:18:30
in English Macron called for a cease and desist01:18:32
fire uh yesterday he came back to that I01:18:35
not understood but already the thing to stop01:18:37
the fire there were diplomats01:18:38
Israelis who said ah well it’s01:18:40
anti-Semitism borders on anti-Semitism01:18:41
do you think it was possible01:18:43
to go it is possible to go further01:18:45
that what the fi is doing on Palestine01:18:47
uh I think that faced with01:18:50
opponents who are at this point01:18:52
unable to hold IR a line I01:18:54
think it's a quality in itself01:18:55
to actually be able to01:18:57
carry his line of being convinced and01:18:59
not to give in because we are already afraid01:19:01
face because in fact in front we have a01:19:02
house of cards indeed you say01:19:04
with with with Macron it's a good01:19:05
example it's been a month and a few01:19:08
what we call a cease fire he waits01:19:10
that there are at least 10,000 dead01:19:12
less than 30,000 injured than the Gaza Strip01:19:15
is shaved there is not much left there01:19:17
to start talking timidly about a01:19:18
ceases fire and as soon as we start a little01:19:20
to tell him that things aren't going well, he's coming back01:19:24
he withdraws knowing that it is01:19:25
the same person who called01:19:27
the only one in the world he called for a01:19:28
international coalition against Hamas01:19:30
and he went from that to cease fire01:19:32
then after that there is no more cease fire01:19:33
Israel has the right to defend itself which01:19:34
is also total fake news01:19:36
the history of the right to defend oneself01:19:37
only exists in the case where we have to do01:19:39
an interstate conflict does not exist01:19:41
not so in short there are people opposite01:19:43
who are not able to hold a01:19:44
line because in fact they are of one01:19:46
political point of view it's it's01:19:47
it's invertebrates what I think01:19:49
it's a quality in itself when I01:19:51
see David Guer for example well I01:19:53
I think it's actually great01:19:54
that he does nothing but himself as such01:19:56
he does more for the Palestinian cause01:19:58
that I don't know how many responsible01:20:00
uh European party united what I want01:20:02
say it's impressive well it will be01:20:03
put uh well it’s not just him eh01:20:05
there isn't us we were talking about it all the time01:20:06
the time and so on but I think that01:20:08
on the contrary there is there is something01:20:09
of really beautiful eh to see as01:20:12
that uh people stand in front of a01:20:14
like Jerome and01:20:17
after Tue or more several things uh01:20:20
well uh Macron still has a line01:20:23
uh so it's true that he adjusts it01:20:26
and depending on the evolution of the01:20:29
situation he starts by saying support01:20:32
unconditional, I remember it01:20:33
day when yel brown Pivet pretended to us01:20:37
applaud by approve by01:20:40
acclaim unconditional support for01:20:42
Israel we were the only formation01:20:43
policy to refuse to refuse01:20:46
to applaud it earned us01:20:49
already a good storm of price uh01:20:54
then he spoke of Israel's right to01:20:56
to defend oneself which amounts exactly to01:20:58
even then it's true the day before yesterday when I01:21:00
am more When and finally in any case it is01:21:01
very recent he the BBC yeah he is he has01:21:04
talked about ceasing fire but because01:21:07
himself he is he sees clearly that in01:21:10
reality in the population of of this01:21:13
country in the population in France because01:21:15
that even if we don't have the images because01:21:17
that we have very few images that01:21:18
come from Gaza since there is a01:21:19
total blockade including on the networks01:21:21
no VO we see it on the onit networks01:21:24
a lot but on the big chains01:21:26
listen and we can't see that01:21:32
wow I encourage you to follow01:21:34
Besides01:21:36
lib the spokesperson h necessarily01:21:40
obviously is also directed by us01:21:42
said the other day01:21:45
responsible for the01:21:48
reactionciice now it's been a month01:21:50
that and no one can01:21:53
pretend not to know that in Gaza it is01:21:56
one it's it's a real butcher's shop01:21:58
it's a real butcher's shop so there01:22:00
So the rejection gets stronger and stronger01:22:02
at one point he says CER the fire and01:22:04
then he gets hit since the01:22:06
Israeli president01:22:07
uh their call for order it was not the01:22:10
only netaniahu also put01:22:13
Biden yes and and Biden himself said01:22:16
anyway the CESS the fire is01:22:18
inconceivable uh so he quickly came back01:22:21
in the line still good uh but01:22:24
suddenly he is not very convinced when01:22:25
even yes no no he is not convinced01:22:27
but I'm a little ashamed for him01:22:29
sometimes we say it's not or not but01:22:31
it's it's it doesn't give a nice01:22:32
image of France, that’s for sure01:22:34
it's sure he's not very good now01:22:36
me I then there is one thing with01:22:38
which I completely agree01:22:39
it is that the fact that we are held01:22:42
good and let's hold on01:22:44
this line of requirement of the CC lefeu because01:22:47
that the CC lefeu me too I am very01:22:49
attached for example to to the watchwords01:22:51
to stop the bombings and to lift the01:22:53
blockade of Gaza but we are in a01:22:56
situation who who who who is not matter01:22:59
which there including me every time I01:23:02
am amazed you spoke earlier01:23:03
of the Oslo Accords, I am not one01:23:05
a whole defender of the Oslo Accords I01:23:07
are one of these01:23:09
activists who do not join, for example01:23:13
to the two-state solution that we are told01:23:14
sold as the solution to me as of01:23:17
that the agreements have been signed01:23:19
myself01:23:20
said it doesn't work, this story is01:23:25
the two states it's it's an impasse01:23:27
and it's a bloody stalemate and01:23:29
moreover the only state that the State01:23:33
of Israel would like to concede would like01:23:35
to concede to the Palestinians and that01:23:37
imperialism would like to concede to01:23:38
Palestinians in reality what it is01:23:41
an open-air getto and here we are01:23:43
this is what we see except that here we are01:23:45
passed to another stage there he of a01:23:47
in a certain way I tend to01:23:50
consider that they want uh uh01:23:53
excuse me but finish the job what01:23:55
they want to finish the job when01:23:57
when do they have the state when the army01:23:59
Israeli order01:24:01
population of the northern Gaza Strip01:24:03
to evacuate the north of the Gaza Strip01:24:06
to go south and even01:24:08
moment we learned that there were01:24:10
negotiations with Egypt for uh01:24:13
exile in particular in Sinai or in01:24:15
other Egyptian region hundreds01:24:18
of thousands of Egyptians it's it's01:24:20
really out of forgiveness uh01:24:22
Palestinians of course it really is01:24:24
complete the the this this this company01:24:28
of dispossession of an entire people uh and01:24:30
and and its land so we are in this01:24:33
situation and therefore the requirement the requirement01:24:36
urgently it was really to say stop01:24:39
stop good hercia01:24:42
yes just to follow up on the question01:24:44
of the position of francemis and01:24:47
watchwords01:24:48
uh then of course indeed the word01:24:51
that we put forward is it’s fire01:24:52
after there is there is also always01:24:54
the idea of we cannot be satisfied with01:24:56
stop the fire obviously we must also01:24:58
make sure you don't come back to01:24:59
situation before which ultimately01:25:01
Otherwise it's the snake that dies01:25:02
the queue we just have to wait for01:25:04
next explosion and that was the meaning01:25:06
moreover due to the fact that we held on01:25:08
on our cinema debate there on yal Gaza that01:25:11
was a long story that too then01:25:13
so it’s a cinema debate that we have01:25:14
organized Charlotte le Duc and myself01:25:16
with the support of the group of the01:25:18
France rebellious in the Assembly01:25:20
national then you should know that at01:25:22
at the start of this film debate we had planned it01:25:24
before the 7th01:25:25
October except that obviously good we had01:25:28
so lucky that with Charlotte we01:25:30
had prepared our com type the day before01:25:33
and therefore inevitably in the weekend good01:25:34
well there were leaks Caroline ago01:25:36
in and best Habib all they are01:25:38
stepped up to the plate there is Bron Pivet it is01:25:41
scandalous plus I invited Mariam01:25:43
aboudaka then there it was01:25:44
candy in short then good yelbron01:25:47
Pivet had had how to say had01:25:50
asked that husband not be received01:25:52
well she didn't say no to the film it's01:25:54
this is the person who was PFLP, that's it01:25:57
who was excluded who was expelled and01:25:59
who is in the film actually so she01:26:00
was also invited as01:26:02
that intervenes in the film and and therefore01:26:05
in fact, we waited for it, we waited01:26:07
that's good and we ended up organizing well01:26:09
enough at the last moment because there you go01:26:10
at least it avoids leaving too much01:26:13
time for our adversaries to leave01:26:15
take it upon ourselves so we held on01:26:17
because the idea was to show that01:26:19
uh that's what this film actually shows in01:26:22
what exactly does it do?01:26:24
which led us to this situation uh01:26:27
so it was it it was it was01:26:29
the opportunity precisely to show01:26:30
show the causes uh there you go and I want01:26:32
just to say finally here I am01:26:36
I'm glad we held on01:26:38
film that's it we can see that the film is01:26:40
take place in the National Assembly itself01:26:41
if I also deplore that certain01:26:44
people were banned from entering for01:26:47
watch the film under the pretext that they01:26:49
were activists so I didn't01:26:51
still don't understand what that means but01:26:52
how he spots them it seems that they01:26:54
asked the police ah01:26:56
yes names crossed out on the list of names01:27:00
who had been who you who you had01:27:01
communicated to the National Assembly I01:27:03
I spoke with a friend at the demonstration01:27:05
precisely from Saturday who who who has not01:27:08
could enter while his name was in01:27:10
the list but it had just been crossed out01:27:11
including a woman who was also in01:27:13
the film incidentally good in short so01:27:15
this is it, this is to show you01:27:17
as far as they are capable01:27:19
to go what and elsewhere you suffer01:27:21
pressure from your position on the01:27:23
networks and everything or I imagine so01:27:28
but but for a long time after good01:27:30
obviously this is accentuated with the 701:27:31
where there are actually death threats01:27:33
exploded but but before yes01:27:36
it was good quite regularly good01:27:38
it was often under cycles of 301:27:39
days there it's a bit continuous what I01:27:42
gotta say one thing for the the the DIV01:27:44
in the group markets01:27:46
of action of rebellious France we01:27:49
is we must be twice each time01:27:51
more numerous than before uh for01:27:53
hold on we get taken advantage of01:27:56
systematically sometimes systematically01:27:58
really quite hard though01:28:00
eh by people so therefore it is necessary01:28:01
we need to see what the state is01:28:02
of spirit eh that we must hold here it is01:28:04
it's very nice eh we are we01:28:06
is all agreed but if you take out one01:28:07
little and you go into society01:28:09
wide angle here I'm talking to you about01:28:11
the experience of my action group and01:28:13
around Paris in the 20th01:28:15
district and it's it's01:28:16
certainly not the most01:28:18
hard a priori a friendly territory that's how01:28:20
as as as as territory01:28:22
Besides, I have friends this weekend01:28:24
of rebellious France and the Po which01:28:26
are stopped by the police because01:28:28
that they have01:28:29
was the PO the independent open party which01:28:33
uh who interposed me excuse me but01:28:38
shot which were controlled by the police01:28:41
because denounced by a person01:28:43
name of the fact that they would be in the process of01:28:45
declaiming anti-Semitic words01:28:47
while there was a leaflet on the01:28:48
CESS the fire so I wanted to respond01:28:50
a little seriously by saying01:28:52
the left could have France submitted01:28:54
in this case could have held a01:28:55
line further on this question01:28:58
and because that's what I said01:28:59
I think it's been 25 years since01:29:01
left does not think Palestine finally01:29:02
I say I'm harsh but one more01:29:04
time I lived there for 2 years I01:29:05
stop by, that's it, that's it for me01:29:07
frustrated a lot after I01:29:08
the impression that it fixed everything01:29:09
world us as an activist01:29:10
anti-racist that we asked this question01:29:11
it seems like everyone01:29:12
was happy that this is the status quo01:29:15
there is a colonization but it is01:29:17
why I want to ask two01:29:18
hypotheses to try to explain01:29:20
what France in Souise had one01:29:22
particular difficulty in being able to say01:29:24
something else the first is still01:29:25
the line of criminalization because01:29:26
that we didn't talk about it but the comrades01:29:27
of the NPA they are under investigation eh for01:29:30
apology for terrorism and what in fact01:29:32
I say the crest line is played out01:29:34
between the media crush so it is necessary01:29:35
even though I don't already have a mentality01:29:37
Chick and therefore not be opportunistic we01:29:39
saw some who got lost01:29:40
and on the other side criminalization01:29:43
it's already an extremely difficult vice01:29:45
for the debate and the second is that01:29:46
I think we can honestly say01:29:48
without spitting on the comrades of the01:29:49
France rebellious that he was not ready01:29:52
he wasn't ready for more01:29:53
reasons one one of the changes by01:29:55
example with 2017 it is only since 202201:29:58
the question of creating a school01:30:00
training with the question of training01:30:02
people are different today you01:30:05
have the soundtrack which makes a formidable T01:30:06
notably for example they have by01:30:08
recently from the bases of the01:30:09
extreme electoral sociology01:30:11
right its link with Islamophobia and C01:30:13
and and there we can and and transmit to you01:30:15
you train people and there you arrive01:30:17
on a subject where no one has01:30:18
positioned a little seriously except01:30:19
maybe the PC and a party and01:30:22
so-called far-left groups in all01:30:24
cases which are in very currents01:30:25
minorities who who therefore you01:30:28
arrive in a position where you01:30:30
have to assume both I say to the face01:30:32
to take some really nice pies01:30:34
permanence and to have a line where like01:30:37
you said it's difficult to discuss01:30:39
of the question of the two states for01:30:40
anyone who lived there two01:30:42
states it's a joke it makes you laugh01:30:44
everyone but I say but but01:30:45
even say for a simple reason01:30:48
it is that when we say two states it is01:30:49
a state the Israeli state and the process01:30:51
colonial who goes to class eh and who01:30:52
keep going, I feel like that's it01:30:53
comfort position but suddenly yes01:30:55
but except that in fact why there is01:30:56
this position of comfort which was01:30:57
the position and which again I think01:30:58
position of France of the states that is01:31:00
that it is necessary to politically produce the01:31:02
speech which allows us to put this or there01:31:04
in the in the question there we saw clearly01:31:05
that there are words that are criminalized01:31:07
positions and that there is a manoity01:31:09
totality of the debate and therefore I think01:31:10
that I understand that France is rebellious01:31:12
is prioritized in the battle01:31:13
ability to not back down from01:31:16
the media offensive but01:31:18
position simple positions but01:31:20
which are facing the island to be able to produce01:31:23
politically support is fire01:31:24
and behind say condemnation of all01:31:26
crimes which means conviction01:31:28
war crimes including01:31:29
the Israeli army and to be able to deploy01:31:31
and I can regret the fact that he01:31:33
not a bigger one but I think01:31:35
honestly the state of the balance of power01:31:37
that was it we couldn't do much01:31:38
more we couldn't do much less01:31:41
yes then it's very fast01:31:43
the dividing line there today01:31:45
is it ultimately very simple01:31:47
there are all the political forces which01:31:49
approve of the ongoing massacre and01:31:51
ethnic cleansing in progress or which01:31:53
look elsewhere and who therefore leaves01:31:55
do and then there are those who say01:31:57
very simply and I was going to say almost01:31:59
in a basic way or in any case01:32:01
elementary stop stop what is it and for01:32:06
politicize people who are a little more moderate01:32:07
It’s actually interesting to leave01:32:08
from a position which is not too much which has01:32:10
not a political entry point too much01:32:12
too powerful too complicated to explain the01:32:13
one-state solution there for for for01:32:17
continue a little in the direction of Paul01:32:19
internationalism and01:32:20
anti-imperialism is not Simple01:32:21
simply words or statements01:32:23
position and of course it is the basis he if01:32:24
we don't have that, we can't move forward but01:32:26
it's also very concrete things01:32:28
very material is to build01:32:30
links with specific topics01:32:32
politicians who act who are at the01:32:35
foreground then that actually01:32:37
organization01:32:39
history of both the extreme left01:32:41
French and the Communist Party had it01:32:43
done eh in the past eh I want to01:32:45
remember that because it is a name which01:32:47
no doubt evokes a lot of things there01:32:49
included among those who01:32:50
listen to Alain grche for example example01:32:52
who does this wonderful job with01:32:53
Orient 21 and well Alain graciously he01:32:56
been at the head of the section for a long time01:32:58
Middle East of the famous polex01:33:01
foreign policy committee of the01:33:02
French Communist Party there you go and01:33:05
which polex had dozens of01:33:06
permanent specialists by country by zone01:33:09
et cetera who was doing a job01:33:10
of upstream expertise which irrigated well01:33:14
of course the whole of the debate and so on01:33:16
there was a job and there was01:33:17
good links such as movement01:33:18
communist of the time was capable of01:33:20
produce them then today what is01:33:22
the state of internationalism on the left01:33:24
what are the networks that make01:33:25
concrete people living precisely01:33:27
internationalism is all about01:33:29
rebuild eh I mean the the the01:33:31
the the me I think one of the reasons01:33:33
it's not the only one, eh of course there is01:33:35
all this repressive climate and so on but01:33:36
for which we allowed ourselves to be expelled01:33:39
Mariam abouaka is precisely that there01:33:41
has a huge loss in construction01:33:44
concrete links with them01:33:47
subjects the concrete forces in01:33:49
particular of civil society01:33:50
Palestinian for example eh because01:33:52
well it's true that on the political level01:33:53
we are no longer in the 70s or even01:33:55
in the years in the in the years01:33:56
80 but there are many possibilities01:33:58
it's a it's still there are some01:34:00
quite considerable forces which01:34:02
fight with which it is necessary01:34:04
urgent really now in the fire01:34:06
of the action of building links for01:34:08
only to bring to life concretely01:34:10
materially internationalism and01:34:12
anti-imperialism so when I01:34:14
listen to what is astonishing in the01:34:16
Laifi's positions are that you01:34:17
say there is no one has the impression that the01:34:19
the question of Palestine was01:34:21
not uh she didn't occupy people's minds01:34:23
for a while there hasn't been01:34:24
really training on this and01:34:26
yet they took a stand ago01:34:27
so here you place them it remains01:34:29
still a party there is there is a01:34:31
breakup thing but there is still01:34:33
you are placed in the camp01:34:34
social democrat but still with a01:34:36
breakup plan but I wonder01:34:37
how come the fi holds and01:34:40
not uh Europe Ecology The Greens or the01:34:43
PCF of course we are not going there are01:34:45
activists who stand firm in these01:34:46
gone but how come he01:34:48
don't hold on, what's the matter?01:34:49
ideological ruptures between uh PCF01:34:52
and France submitted or it is by01:34:54
electoralism or both France to01:34:56
submissive is not a force01:34:57
social democrat we must stop with01:34:58
that by the way what does that mean01:34:59
today a strength01:35:00
social democrat no one after you has you01:35:03
said that the PS and everything were forces01:35:04
social democrats the people who01:35:06
say soci socioemocat are rallied01:35:08
to neoliberalism uh corsam and and01:35:12
for a very long time no it's there la la01:35:15
rebellious France is a force which01:35:16
is a break from what was01:35:18
social democracy even if uh its01:35:21
leader and a good part of his01:35:23
DEES of these frames come from there but01:35:25
not but but not only and we see very01:35:27
although by its political logic of01:35:29
Constitution and his way of thinking01:35:32
politics is something that happens01:35:34
differs radically I would say from the01:35:36
social democracy in any case such01:35:38
that we have known her since the 80s01:35:40
perhaps the Socialist Party of the years01:35:41
70 with the ouon of the left in reality01:35:44
this is what serves Mélanchon to01:35:45
reference eh I mean it's the01:35:46
Mélenchon strategy, that’s Mélenchon01:35:48
it's it's it's the middle of the years01:35:50
70 of the alliance's common program01:35:52
with the Communist Party of01:35:53
the incarnation of a left01:35:55
offensive and so on that's it but01:35:58
certainly not social democracy01:35:59
like almost everyone01:36:00
understands this term understands understands this01:36:02
term today no it's the beginning01:36:04
my opinion of another story if you want01:36:07
use the old vocabulary I would say01:36:08
that it's maybe it's a social01:36:10
democracy as there were so many01:36:11
of the second international eh you have to01:36:13
don't forget that it was there01:36:15
German social democracy of the time01:36:16
it is the party in which cohabited01:36:18
Rosa Luxembourg kaoutski ber01:36:22
and then no and and Bert who gave01:36:25
the order to kill to murder Rosa01:36:28
Luxembourg and car carpner all these01:36:31
these people live together within the same01:36:32
gone so I I'm not saying that it's01:36:35
the same thing in France in Souise I01:36:37
hope I dare to hope yeah I dare to hope01:36:39
that this is not the case but it is for01:36:40
say that still we are we are we are01:36:42
in something that is not here01:36:44
who is not at all what we01:36:46
means by social democracy such as01:36:47
we have experienced it for several already01:36:50
decades the others in fact they01:36:53
are I I I how to say when we01:36:56
talking about PC PS worms I think01:36:59
that basically we are on on on on on01:37:01
organizations which are not which are not01:37:03
are not convinced when we talk about01:37:05
certain subjects like01:37:07
these in fact basically I think that01:37:09
their positioning it is not it it is01:37:12
not he is not up to what01:37:13
should be the positioning of a01:37:15
organization01:37:16
internationalist who you see who militates01:37:19
for international solidarity and01:37:20
cetera this is the basic problem01:37:22
I think of these organizations and uh01:37:25
but in fact I think it is necessary01:37:28
also see its parties because at the01:37:30
rigor Europe and Gil the green pass which has01:37:32
historically had a line rather01:37:34
Atlanticist this may not come as a surprise01:37:36
but when we see the the the Party01:37:37
communist what is it who who01:37:39
really explains this dissension is01:37:41
what it is it's it it's there it's01:37:42
the electoralism of de Rousell who tries01:37:44
to stand out from from Mélenchon Mo I01:37:48
I think it still shoots well uh01:37:51
pretext of the situation in Palestine01:37:53
to go to all the plateaus for01:37:54
tell us that laanupess is over01:37:56
I feel like that's what it's like01:37:57
serves him what has been happening since the 7th01:37:58
October I was very serious when I01:38:00
used forgiveness no no but the word01:38:02
of opportunism just now by quoting01:38:04
Engles and Cera on historical meaning01:38:06
not to seize an opportunity eh it's01:38:08
to in a situation take short01:38:10
term the party of the ruling class01:38:12
or in any case to come on his01:38:14
position and and and how to say and rather01:38:17
than to preserve the long-term interest01:38:19
and to build in its social camp and01:38:21
I think it's symptomatic of the01:38:22
position of Fabien Roussell01:38:23
systematically debates in the party01:38:25
communist have been made since then01:38:27
since the Roussell period01:38:28
systematically and even a little before01:38:30
internal all concerns01:38:32
to which the01:38:33
communists of internal concerns01:38:35
the first was finding strength01:38:37
we had to refire what was P FB the01:38:40
the renewal of identity01:38:41
the organization that spoke to people01:38:43
inside the communist party pre01:38:45
well last congress it was 80% eh01:38:47
uh and and and and this speech never01:38:50
towards the you look on all01:38:52
positions they changed question on01:38:54
islamophobia word recognition01:38:56
and the anti-racist question we cut ourselves off01:38:57
totally from the anti-racist movement of01:38:59
what is moving in society is01:39:01
active forces whether on movement01:39:02
anti-racist whether it be on others01:39:04
subjects they divide they try to01:39:05
split on the nuclear issue even if01:39:07
the ecological debate is being recomposed01:39:09
on this nuclear issue but01:39:10
every time there was something01:39:11
who moves the company bam they take01:39:13
the the opposite step so that's01:39:15
opportunism and it was with the aim of01:39:16
rebuild shopkeeper interests01:39:18
saw it very clearly, the guys signed it01:39:19
the agreement in the National Assembly01:39:21
to be able to have places opposite01:39:23
what France can do in Souise01:39:24
criticize a lot of positions but01:39:26
we can make a comment you like01:39:28
you don't like Mélenchon, there's something01:39:29
which has been clear for at least 2 to 3 years01:39:32
that's when there's a storm01:39:34
political, there is one who holds the01:39:35
flag with the organization it is01:39:37
Jean-Luc Mélenchon and why because01:39:38
precisely they have a political sense which01:39:40
consider saying that when we have01:39:42
ideas the question is to wear the01:39:44
flag as far away as possible and then01:39:46
to bring as many people back as possible01:39:48
left-wing organizations fired01:39:50
the political failure of having put the flag01:39:51
very very far but to be all alone01:39:53
in front ok so I often say that to01:39:56
my friends when well me I prefer 701:39:58
million people on the program01:39:59
of the future in common and the positions01:40:01
minimalist anti-racists that we could01:40:04
criticize but I think not01:40:06
minimalist but on Islamophobia ETA has01:40:08
taking France unseen even if it's not01:40:10
its historical software even if it has01:40:11
not taken from the entire annis grids01:40:13
that 10,000 people for the revolution01:40:15
world proletarian internationalist01:40:16
this is what you want and therefore in01:40:18
this dynamic there yes there is01:40:20
oral opportunism for for Rousell01:40:24
but what's more, it's fantasized, that is to say01:40:26
it's a fantasy about the idea that there is01:40:28
a reactionary white popular people01:40:31
that it would be necessary01:40:32
flatter here I lead you to read in01:40:34
setback I wrote an article01:40:36
on that in contrain where I was returning01:40:38
on this before during the campaign01:40:40
presidential election and really nothing01:40:41
changed by the way, that reminds me01:40:43
we're talking about yesterday's march but01:40:45
we remember 2 or 3 years ago it's01:40:46
exactly the same ones who were who01:40:48
who went to the march for01:40:49
cops syat yes but but of course but01:40:53
but you still have to have to when01:40:55
even recall a fact which is finally we01:40:57
can't we can't get over it01:41:00
uh the leaders I can distinguish clearly01:41:03
THE leaders of a mass of activists who01:41:06
for some people wonder01:41:07
others do not necessarily agree and01:41:09
cetera but the leaders of the PC of the PS01:41:13
uh from Europe Ecology the worms and in01:41:16
especially the first two but they01:41:18
have been imposed01:41:21
the anupè I mean the anupè is the01:41:24
product of a balance of power me if yes01:41:26
I was told there is, there is still01:41:28
just a few years since the addition01:41:30
PC and PS scores01:41:32
presidential election would bring these two parties01:41:35
below 5% but I wouldn't have01:41:39
I thought I was 10 years old01:41:43
81 well it's true there is water which has01:41:47
sink under the bridges but the the the01:41:49
how to say the park course was and and01:41:52
anyway and the end point01:41:54
is still striking so it's01:41:56
this is the result there is on one side01:41:57
Mélenchon who received 8 million votes01:42:00
the presidential election and there is the other01:42:03
Rousell who makes 800,000 well there you go01:42:06
that's all so and and and and we come back to01:42:09
the question of non-elleine breakup01:42:11
is not an organization01:42:13
social democrat otherwise me who am01:42:15
Trotsky activist, you believe that01:42:16
I would never have joined such a01:42:18
organization I joined France01:42:21
rebellious because for a simple01:42:23
and good reason when there is a01:42:24
mass movement that exists on a01:42:26
break line after we can talk01:42:28
such and such a point but01:42:30
basically rebellious France01:42:32
carries a demand for a break with the01:42:33
capitalist system but it's but01:42:35
it's even assumed it's affirming it's01:42:37
claiming as such is still01:42:39
not just anything democracy we01:42:40
will invite you to push no but you have to01:42:42
push by because on islamophobic01:42:44
it was the outside that pushed France01:42:45
comfortable what to say is this is the advantage of01:42:48
this force as fortunately as there01:42:49
had comrades inside and01:42:50
I was part of it, no problem01:42:52
no no but what to say is that but01:42:54
it's it's the inter-external relationship01:42:57
and we saw that elsewhere hey we saw it01:42:59
at Corbin we had seen him at a01:43:00
a number of organizations in the01:43:02
European radical left see elsewhere01:43:04
even at Sanders if we want to make01:43:05
comparisons there is still a good01:43:07
a good alignment of internal dynamics01:43:09
externally it is that we have a party which01:43:10
arrives on the institutional scene he01:43:12
has an ambition to break through and that's all it takes01:43:14
push it a little and it allows the01:43:16
people inside holding on01:43:18
on this line of progress eh it's01:43:20
always HM an organization which is01:43:22
alive VO plus franis and inell by01:43:27
example to take only his example01:43:29
He doesn't want this breakup, he doesn't want it01:43:31
refuses but we saw it on all the01:43:33
questions he plays a little on both01:43:35
plans he tries to make believe that there01:43:36
has a rift on social issues01:43:38
as he would say or but he invents01:43:39
cleavages which do not exist for example and01:43:42
I notice that François Ruffin is resuming01:43:45
uh exactly takes up its cleavages at01:43:48
wrong because they are they are wrong01:43:52
ILT the EE he would have from a01:43:55
this is a rural France and on the other01:43:58
France of the districts01:44:06
dontis black that's it01:44:11
that you wanted to react or quickly01:44:14
that's what I meant01:44:16
that if France holds out it is also thanks01:44:20
very clear program on the questions01:44:22
international uh after that that's that01:44:26
can have its limits but uh01:44:28
France insumis relies heavily on01:44:30
the UN and international law then01:44:33
after all the UN has its faults eh but uh01:44:36
here it can be a basis for description but01:44:38
but nevertheless it remains one01:44:40
sits solid and it remains the only one01:44:41
good international body which legitimizes01:44:45
which is it's legitimate on this on this01:44:46
kind of subject uh and so that's the01:44:50
it's not Dodin's from this point of view01:44:53
in fact we chose to audition01:44:54
Albanian Francesca last Monday01:44:56
special rapporteur at the UN is01:44:58
precisely to find within C01:45:01
this organization ultimately of the voices01:45:02
who support us and that's why too01:45:04
that Wednesday of this week we are going01:45:06
audition Marc laoui so who is01:45:09
responsible to eni also for for01:45:12
here's to being able to rely on power01:45:15
rely on them in factor but01:45:17
Besides, it makes me think that even01:45:18
the UN is criticized as we have seen that01:45:22
not only criticized there was more01:45:24
100 UN employees who have been who01:45:25
were killed by gas yes yes no but01:45:27
okay yes but I also wanted to say01:45:28
the prices say i th has been processed01:45:31
of anti-Semite I saw that also Amnesty01:45:33
international was attacked because01:45:35
that they don't have they don't want01:45:36
consider Hamas as a01:45:38
terrorist organization with reference to01:45:40
to international law and they were01:45:42
criticized so we have the impression that there01:45:43
doesn't really have anything anymore where and and you have the01:45:45
how to say you have the delegation01:45:47
diplomatic mission of Israel normally01:45:49
diplomat say in my mind a01:45:51
diplomat especially in France we have a01:45:52
tradition of diplomacy and I my01:45:54
father emp of diplomats so it is a01:45:55
job for which I still have to01:45:56
respect you have diplomats that makes 301:45:58
weeks that he goes to the Assembly01:46:00
General with yellow stars but I want01:46:03
to say completely distorted the very basis01:46:05
from the very bottom of what the01:46:07
Nazism is01:46:08
really already it's it's really it's01:46:10
it's a how to say it's it's a01:46:12
incredible historical forfeiture but01:46:13
even in terms of good revisionism01:46:16
more and01:46:17
It’s hard to describe it like that of course01:46:19
it's extremely serious and then01:46:21
when it was the turn I think of of of of01:46:23
I don't know which Iranian dignitary he01:46:25
came back with a paper where there was01:46:26
had written to free Iranian women01:46:28
he was completely hysterical so we01:46:30
is really about people who don't have01:46:32
absolutely no respect for the UN01:46:34
which actually good ah it's default01:46:36
but deserves to exist what is it01:46:37
the place where everyone meets01:46:38
the years well the diplomats and the01:46:41
responsible for all of all01:46:42
country to effectively recognize a01:46:44
not often well the state the state of things01:46:46
which is that bah the international order and01:46:47
international law well you can't01:46:49
impose only on people uh who are more01:46:52
weak than the others what eh and that01:46:53
so well the ICC probably doesn't01:46:56
will not be able to uh uh condemn uh01:46:58
netanahou while she was when01:47:00
even rather quick to throw out a mandate01:47:01
stop for Putin or for uh all01:47:03
a series of autocrats01:47:05
Africans but hey VO it's not for01:47:07
as much as it takes uh as it takes uh01:47:09
sweep away yes just01:47:11
just in one sentence what01:47:13
reminded uh Francesca Albanian01:47:14
precisely moreover during his01:47:15
audition it was uh that's one of the01:47:17
great principles precisely of the ANU01:47:18
remains the self-determination of peoples and01:47:21
that's it and that from this point of view in01:47:23
actually actually ENF he is finally actually01:47:27
all countries in fact the UN should01:47:30
under this principle01:47:32
condemn Israel's action What01:47:34
francemise currently is still01:47:35
the only political organization that01:47:37
truly respects the law01:47:38
international finally in its entirety01:47:40
and and who s who refers to him in S01:47:42
in its in its positions there are01:47:44
no other organization from01:47:45
moment when01:47:47
where from the moment a01:47:48
political organization claims that01:47:50
Israel has the right to defend itself as01:47:51
you reminded him earlier, it's not01:47:53
not an interstate conflict it is a01:47:54
colonial conflict they are already they01:47:57
are already on the march of law01:47:58
international then we can blame01:48:00
we can we can blame talk about the01:48:02
two-state solution et cetera but the01:48:03
the fact is that you have it very well01:48:05
explained earlier, it is already a01:48:06
dynamics of movement and it is the01:48:08
the only ones currently holding this course01:48:10
it is the only political organization01:48:11
whose deputies finally to my01:48:13
knowledge even if there are some01:48:15
deputies from the PSF et cetera who come01:48:17
fact affirm this support politically01:48:19
by going to demonstrations01:48:20
sometimes we pay it finally sometimes we pay it01:48:23
high price you were talking about the threats of01:48:24
death us it's it's things too01:48:26
that we live as an activist01:48:27
for Palestine and it is above all that01:48:29
the dividing line within this01:48:31
dynamic is mainly defined on01:48:32
racial issues there we see it on01:48:34
Palestine but that was the case on01:48:35
Islamophobia a few years ago when01:48:36
I think it was still the01:48:37
first big turning point from the moment01:48:39
where Jean-Luc Mélenchon where it was more01:48:41
that Éric Coquerel and some deputies who01:48:43
called to come and to Rufin to B01:48:45
swimming pool there was already a first01:48:47
dividing line FO yes sorry yeah01:48:49
sorry it's true yeah there there there01:48:51
exceptionally he doesn't enjoy football01:48:53
this Sunday in Strasbourg between01:48:54
parentheses and it obviously doesn't have that01:48:56
did not succeed very well since they are01:48:57
makes a little alpaguer al paguer01:48:59
so good behind that you spoke01:49:01
of a form of opportunism there was01:49:02
also I think forms of opportunism01:49:04
within rebellious France which me01:49:06
personal title I don't mind if it01:49:07
is about providing clear support and01:49:10
net to Muslims in France01:49:12
particularly in this context but01:49:13
lines that are crumbly01:49:14
typically I think this is the case01:49:16
of Corbière of corbierre and garido which01:49:18
made the choice to return to the01:49:20
who made the choice to01:49:21
reconsider their political position but01:49:23
it's not it's not new the case of01:49:24
clementine otin it's the same she had01:49:26
supported she had supported the theory of01:49:28
of Rousseau who thought that the01:49:30
revolts in working-class neighborhoods01:49:32
was ultimately just a kind of01:49:33
savagery neither nor list linked to the to the01:49:37
violence of men and virilism01:49:39
yeah that's some masculinity01:49:41
toxic and uh and and finally it's01:49:43
in it's in this sequence there too01:49:45
that we as activists01:49:46
anti-racist we see what our01:49:47
allies and those with whom we go01:49:49
be able to build bridges01:49:50
we hope it will be short, medium and long01:49:53
term and and and there you were talking about of of of01:49:56
garido and all me so there we talked01:49:58
dissensions within laanupes01:50:00
but even within the fi apparently01:50:02
this is what appears is that there is01:50:04
fracture lines we saw there with01:50:06
the controversy surrounding garido who01:50:08
been then there's a lot of talk01:50:11
as if she would have been expelled but01:50:12
in fact it's just she is 4 months old or01:50:13
she can't speak to01:50:15
the National Assembly is that and therefore01:50:17
we also have good we're going to call it the01:50:19
slingers so we had a lot of01:50:21
reviews from Ruffin01:50:23
of clementine tin what is needed01:50:24
to think of that, is there anything01:50:26
being inquisitive does the fi react well01:50:28
in relation to that or the questions01:50:31
internal they always take a role01:50:32
important I will realize that by the point01:50:35
for a little parenthesis you also need01:50:36
to be interested in the extent to which we publicize01:50:38
these internal stories I mean not01:50:40
sure there is a real question which is01:50:42
personal about people who choose who01:50:43
they make this choice to speak outside01:50:44
but internal matters may01:50:46
always play an important role01:50:47
say for the little historical anecdote01:50:49
once again the bolshevi separation01:50:51
Menshevi is about the questions too01:50:52
way to organize inside01:50:54
the organization but in relation to the01:50:56
question of the ability to hold01:50:57
plain lines well that was just for01:50:59
the anecdote but what interests me01:51:01
that is to say if we take the idea seriously01:51:03
that rebellious France is therefore not01:51:04
a social democratic organization but01:51:05
an organization that attempts to organize01:51:07
a project of rupture and which is the fruit01:51:09
he of different political recruitments01:51:11
so we said there are elders of01:51:14
former political activists from across the01:51:16
left you have to say it eh there is01:51:17
people who have passed through the worms01:51:18
but hey we have recruitment and01:51:19
radical left we are going to say of the elders of01:51:21
the League of Communist Party Elders01:51:22
and on the first side of social democracy01:51:24
Raquel garido I don't know but Alexis01:51:26
corbert very clearly he was elected01:51:28
Socialist Party he was mayor01:51:29
district in Paris eh I01:51:31
remembers and the fact that then there is01:51:33
other people activists who have01:51:36
moved in the associative mister01:51:37
union who are part of the01:51:39
mobilized and militant left-wing people and01:51:41
who had the opportunity through the form01:51:42
who organized the return01:51:44
very quickly into battle and01:51:45
thirdly new news01:51:47
returning people full of people who01:51:50
make their political weapons in France01:51:51
rebellious participate in the renewal01:51:53
of the culture to the left of the way of01:51:54
mobilize that of course bah01:51:56
it is an organization where there is everything01:51:58
can be done, it's normal that there are01:51:59
fracture lines that's what01:52:01
I'm interested in the positive side if you01:52:03
want it's when there is a debate to01:52:04
left there is the debate inside01:52:05
rebellious France was the case on01:52:07
the question of France of the of01:52:08
Islamophobia and the question of01:52:10
fracture which existed on the left on the01:52:12
vision in fact of secularism was the01:52:14
case on departure of kmanov exactly01:52:17
and in fact when there is a debate01:52:18
left there is a debate France then01:52:19
if we want to be positive and optimistic01:52:21
is to say well like elsewhere that01:52:22
it's still empty of substance01:52:24
ideological we saw it we don't really know01:52:26
what they want what they do there we01:52:28
is in a place where well that's where01:52:30
this must be discussed and if we are01:52:31
pessimistic is to say that there is01:52:33
fracture lines we managed to01:52:34
assemble on a platform01:52:36
programmatic the program but which has01:52:38
a fundamental difference between01:52:39
program and ideological positioning01:52:41
that is what you also said01:52:42
internationalism is brought to life by01:52:43
networks but why the positions01:52:45
internationally are very very how01:52:48
say important and how does that allow01:52:50
cissions of openings it is01:52:51
that it is to hold a global thought in01:52:54
in any case a thought which has a coherence01:52:56
general and it goes beyond a list of01:52:58
Program program finally a list of01:53:00
of proposals and there the debate is01:53:02
open I think people who have an01:53:04
historical activist political position01:53:06
have a qualitative advantage in the01:53:08
proposal the ability to do01:53:09
policy to be drafted in relation to01:53:12
people who are returning are01:53:13
agree with the program and get started01:53:15
so here is the fact that I answer01:53:17
not sure is it good it's not01:53:19
well I say no responsibility to the01:53:20
girl I think it's still not01:53:23
the period when how to say it01:53:26
there are plenty of attacks on France01:53:27
submissive to give this show I01:53:29
will still notice it must be01:53:30
honest that it's also a01:53:32
opportunity no but undoubtedly but this01:53:33
mean it's beyond dess the01:53:34
problem with this speech is that01:53:36
often it was worn in the01:53:37
organizations to also erase01:53:39
real problems that arose and the01:53:40
problems on all levels01:53:42
the question of VSS management that that01:53:44
or the question of management here01:53:45
all kinds of problems01:53:46
internal so we are stuck eh by the01:53:48
the fact that I can't stand01:53:50
see people using their powers01:53:52
media to be able to tap on01:53:53
the organization where my attacked is01:53:55
unbearable the problem is that we01:53:57
knows that the total argument of all01:53:59
way you should never speak other than01:54:01
internally he justified things so01:54:03
but I think I only need that01:54:05
it will be okay for the few who have01:54:07
raised my hand to say I'm not everything01:54:08
totally agree what do they have01:54:09
proposed there is one which is serious01:54:11
in the proposals honestly it is01:54:12
clementinetin she writes she proposes01:54:14
she says we can agree or not01:54:15
agree with her but she wrote the01:54:17
others basically Jér precisely I live01:54:20
bounce back on that because there is there01:54:22
has several aspects in fact uh one of the01:54:25
aspects is that01:54:27
uh all these quarrels in any case01:54:30
start from the way they are01:54:32
presented in particular by the media are01:54:34
still very ridiculous uh I want01:54:37
say we are still in a01:54:38
situation where we have exceeded 10,00001:54:40
victims in Gaza the the the massacre01:54:43
continue and uh me when for example01:54:47
in demonstrations uh when like01:54:50
I have my scarf the journalists me01:54:52
therefore notice because I do01:54:54
not part of the media figures and01:54:56
media from France ins01:54:57
submissive but the scarf attracts01:55:00
definition so they come to ask you01:55:01
questions the first question that01:55:02
you are asking is uh the internal problem01:55:06
to rebellious France the last01:55:07
answer I gave to this question01:55:09
it's listen, I honestly don't have01:55:11
want to talk about it there is there is there is01:55:13
more than 10,000 victims in Gaza so you01:55:16
do you understand that everything01:55:18
it's really ridiculous compared to that01:55:21
of what is happening now there is there01:55:24
there is one thing that you have01:55:25
started to approach because I01:55:28
I hear for example that there01:55:30
would have democracy problems in01:55:31
rebellious France and particularly in01:55:33
his parliamentary group you know and01:55:35
arilia will be able to say it because all01:55:38
Tuesday mornings we participate in a meeting01:55:40
at a meeting of the parliamentary group where01:55:42
everything is discussed I I I I can01:55:44
say I can testify to it it turns out01:55:47
that I was the only deputy of France01:55:48
rebellious to vote against a resolution01:55:51
presented by the majority01:55:52
government on the question of01:55:53
war in Ukraine so that there is01:55:56
ever more deliveries of weapons to01:55:58
delensk regime so that France01:56:01
take more place within NATO01:56:02
et cetera et cetera rebellious France01:56:04
abstained, I voted against it01:56:07
informed the group, we discussed it in01:56:10
group meeting etilia can01:56:12
testify I have not been the subject of any01:56:15
pressure of no remark everything was01:56:17
passed in the most democratic way01:56:19
whoever it is, these questions make me01:56:21
in reality gently laughing I hear01:56:24
that Raquel garido S who spoke01:56:26
recently, finally, she01:56:27
expresses himself a lot has said it is01:56:30
the former columnist of yes yes yes yes01:56:32
but but but but I'm going there01:56:34
come back said the other day that the the the01:56:38
for a year and a half Jean-Luc Mélenchon01:56:40
hindered the movement so me at the end01:56:43
a moment ago I would like us to01:56:46
discusses everything but I was going to say one01:56:47
in a certain way uh let's discuss the substance01:56:50
because I think that in reality there is01:56:52
fundamental disagreements and it is these01:56:54
questions that should actually be01:56:57
discuss and who is these disagreements by01:57:00
elsewhere don't shock me we are in01:57:02
an extremely tense situation and more01:57:06
the situation will evolve and the more01:57:08
situation is going to be tense I think we01:57:10
is only at the beginning of a certain01:57:12
way and obviously that being01:57:15
given the the the the program of01:57:17
rupture that rebellious France brings and01:57:19
the place it occupies in the01:57:20
political situation today01:57:22
obviously that rebellious France is01:57:24
the object of enormous pressure and well the01:57:27
pressures uh well there are there are those who01:57:31
resist and there are those who have01:57:33
contrary tendency to adapt to it I01:57:36
note for example that the same ones who uh01:57:38
are cited there in in all these01:57:41
quarrels and so on explained to us01:57:43
moment of the battle over pensions01:57:45
that we had to go straight away he he01:57:47
they followed the position of Rous and01:57:49
of Olivier strong to explain to us that he01:57:51
had to go to the vote on article 7 in01:57:53
less time than it took to01:57:55
say it what was the best way01:57:56
to give legitimacy01:57:59
parliamentary to a text that the immense01:58:01
majority of employees in this country01:58:02
refused I note that at the time of the01:58:05
riots and well he was one of those01:58:08
which ultimately explained to us01:58:10
that perhaps it was necessary to put a little01:58:11
of water in our wine well there you go01:58:14
there is there is01:58:16
there are those who stand in the face of01:58:20
pressure, including sometimes by making01:58:22
[ __ ] it's it's it can happen01:58:24
then there is a tendency to01:58:26
to adapt isn't there also a01:58:27
will me when I look at them01:58:29
Garido's interventions I saw01:58:31
notably also at bsit she feels treated01:58:33
many his attacks on Mélenchon and01:58:35
she had a story in which actually01:58:37
if we criticize Mélenchon well that’s it we01:58:40
are we fired is there no01:58:43
also a will sometimes bah of of of of01:58:45
aim for this figure there ah there is a01:58:47
obvious desire to aim for this fig01:58:49
figure there01:58:50
but01:58:52
I insist for for reasons01:58:55
reality which are fundamental reasons01:58:57
problem is that these basic reasons01:58:59
are not said and for me that's what01:59:01
who who exasperates me personally just ENF it has01:59:04
been his lawyer it was a companion01:59:05
of the route of the course of thing I think01:59:07
that in these situations it is very01:59:09
difficult when you are doing politics with people who are your01:59:11
friends with me the tensions multiply01:59:13
it's it's01:59:14
ugly media exposure ago01:59:16
probably a personal question01:59:18
not play but it's true that he01:59:19
must assume that there are questions of01:59:20
disagreement01:59:22
politics I would say one thing it is01:59:25
that rebellious France is not a01:59:27
sect that's what the the the01:59:30
English speakers call a broad church01:59:32
good so in every broad Church there is01:59:34
a line there is a center there is a01:59:36
left so that's it01:59:39
normal the problem is that Gérôme has01:59:42
reason to say that in the group01:59:43
parliamentary things are going well but this01:59:46
is pretty much the only place in01:59:48
rebellious France where there is01:59:49
precisely a debate and a deliberation01:59:52
and sockets of and sockets of01:59:53
position these spaces do not exist01:59:55
in reality in the rest of the movement the01:59:57
rest of the movement is organized we know01:59:59
not really how even if it's even if it02:00:01
there is a push towards structuring02:00:03
eh that it must be said eh there is02:00:05
the loops there are the loops02:00:06
departmental there are coordinations02:00:08
well we are not in the situation of02:00:10
2017 but we are still far from one of one02:00:14
of something that would allow02:00:17
contradictions which are inevitable02:00:19
to be managed internally and that can02:00:22
create side effects that are02:00:24
highly undesirable it can create by02:00:26
example of the kinds of coalitions of02:00:28
coagulation of malcontents i.e.02:00:30
of people who are not who do not have02:00:32
necessarily disagreements on the02:00:34
political line they can have but02:00:36
who have disagreements about02:00:37
functioning or having problems02:00:39
personal for example but which are02:00:41
venoms and as there are no places02:00:43
truly and instantly which will allow02:00:45
to slice them in a relatively02:00:47
relatively collective transparent02:00:49
relatively democratic there is a02:00:50
lack of that I find and well can02:00:53
precisely lead to situations which02:00:54
are problematic especially since02:00:58
it's been said I think everywhere it's02:00:59
truly open bar for anyone02:01:02
left generally wants to type02:01:04
on rebellious France and openb to02:01:06
forceor for internal slingers02:01:08
media love them anyway02:01:10
internal slingers in approximately02:01:11
all political groups and02:01:12
when you are a big training02:01:14
political obviously if you are02:01:15
slinger inside and what if you02:01:17
are if you oppose V to the02:01:19
person who is most hated by the02:01:21
political system that is to say Jean-Luc02:01:22
Mélenchon et cetera and by the system02:01:24
it is obvious that you will have that there is02:01:26
openb so there are things to do02:01:30
so that la la France is rebellious02:01:32
progress in a more efficient operation02:01:34
more structured collective if not02:01:37
would this be where this kind of02:01:39
contradictions are truly managed02:01:41
collectively and politically but that02:01:43
does not excuse comrades in my opinion02:01:47
which are still eh that it's open02:01:50
bar for anyone who taps on it02:01:51
France has submitted and is rightly ready to02:01:53
this game I think it's totally02:01:56
counterproductive including for her and02:01:57
for them and and it's it's it's very02:02:00
bad it doesn't matter at all02:02:03
even advance their own point of view02:02:05
view I would say eh it's not it's not02:02:06
really out of shopkeeper interest that I02:02:09
say that02:02:11
thank you I just said a few words02:02:14
of left-handed Islam that I saw pass02:02:16
any political organization is02:02:17
crossed by power struggles02:02:19
internal so in fact the the problem in02:02:22
in fact it is rather the place that02:02:23
media give these to these reports of02:02:27
strong and clear as said02:02:29
so rebellious France, here we are02:02:31
22% we are a force that worries and02:02:34
notably a small media microcosm02:02:36
so obviously for them it is an auè of02:02:39
to take advantage of these power struggles02:02:41
internal especially when you have a person02:02:42
who loves talking to the media uh and and I02:02:46
can I also testify02:02:47
because I am clearly regulated02:02:49
approached in particular by text yes that you02:02:51
wouldn't say to have a little coffee to02:02:52
tell us a little about life02:02:53
internal of the group that's uh and then02:02:58
after all political organization is02:03:00
also composed of human beings and therefore02:03:01
necessarily imperfect02:03:04
uh but I think he has what he has02:03:07
really want to be in a group02:03:10
and to be as democratic as02:03:12
possible then afterwards we can have a02:03:13
debate on what democracy is02:03:14
but but we have real debates on the02:03:17
legal texts I mean even on the02:03:19
on the resolution on the part we had a02:03:21
real debate on the resolution too02:03:23
to qualify or not the Wagner militia02:03:26
of terrorist it was the same we had a02:03:28
real debate the press releases every time02:03:31
they are always proposed upstream for02:03:32
say do you do you02:03:33
finally is there any opposition02:03:35
or not are there any suggestions02:03:36
modification or not and so on when02:03:38
we finally sign bills02:03:40
when we are asked to sign02:03:42
bills collectively we02:03:44
always ask if there are any02:03:45
oppositions also here are you02:03:47
someone wishes not to put their02:03:48
signature et cetera finally uh ENF for02:03:50
for me there is really truly a02:03:52
operation of groups h so yes uh02:03:55
a word really and after Jér who wanted02:03:57
to do it is just the idea that of all02:03:59
way rebellious France does not have the02:04:00
choice to move from an organization02:04:02
specifically designed for the question02:04:03
electoral to one to one organization02:04:05
politics more broadly in the form02:04:08
of a tool for for the battle on the02:04:11
breaking what we said if the them02:04:12
debates on the left take place inside02:04:14
of fi is that it is a place where02:04:16
we can meet again and on the other hand02:04:17
left does not win the states by02:04:19
break-in ok 2017 almost 2022 almost02:04:23
what do we do next time02:04:24
you still have to understand in the end02:04:25
that the question of the break-in of sur02:04:27
an electoral perspective it is necessary02:04:28
play like he plays it very well02:04:31
we are not going to say the opposite but02:04:32
question is that if we want02:04:33
to establish yourself sustainably you must be02:04:35
in all institutions if we02:04:36
says we are playing the institutional game02:04:37
even if it's a foot of a foot outside02:04:39
you have to be everywhere and therefore on the02:04:40
question of local establishment on the02:04:41
question of the link with the movement02:04:43
social with organizations of course02:04:45
a good organization of that but it's02:04:46
for that there is still it is necessary02:04:48
recall a very clear break between02:04:49
what was done after 2017 and what02:04:51
happened here today but it's02:04:52
true that it takes a lot of time I02:04:54
just one thing anyway eh two02:04:56
sentences eh it's been 43 years I think02:04:59
I campaign eh very exactly good it's02:05:01
the first time or in a few02:05:02
years I have been active in an organization02:05:05
I was not asked my opinion on what02:05:06
that this02:05:07
either it's still I P I I think02:05:10
that it is still even formally02:05:12
eh I think it’s still a02:05:13
little problem eh when I was at the PCF02:05:15
in the 80s it wasn't one02:05:16
organization which shone with its02:05:18
pluralist02:05:20
but when even formally asked I had02:05:23
resolutions there were congresses of02:05:25
ches that's how we get along anyway02:05:27
politicize we ask you your02:05:29
opinion your opinion not02:05:33
so but here I want02:05:35
that's it, at least even the for02:05:38
that's it, we don't even pretend if I02:05:41
I saw it from the outside but I got it02:05:43
understood that it worked a little02:05:44
as02:05:46
that's still a debate on platforms02:05:49
yes but but but this being I I02:05:52
would like uh uh finally on two points02:05:55
I wouldn't want to correct it but uh02:05:58
modify a little bit the the the the point02:06:01
of view which is expressed there because uh02:06:03
I know rebellious France02:06:05
since 2017 I have done uh uh the end of02:06:09
the 2017 presidential election02:06:12
legislative elections I supported the candidate02:06:13
in my department uh finally in in02:06:16
the constituency where I lived in02:06:17
the time uh02:06:20
and then 5 years later I notice when02:06:23
even though the operation is no longer the02:06:24
even very very clearly I mean there02:06:26
for example yard in December there is a02:06:29
assembly02:06:30
representative which was preceded by02:06:34
the the previous one it took place ago02:06:36
I don't know anymore in terms of what it was02:06:38
month of June good benah in the month of June02:06:41
we were presented with texts which02:06:43
was submitted for group discussion02:06:46
of action there are loops department02:06:48
mental which are constituted where texts02:06:50
programmatic are discussed and submitted02:06:54
to the approval of the activists uh in02:06:56
2017 and the years that followed02:06:59
typically there wasn't that that that02:07:01
did not exist so there is there is02:07:03
a modification which takes place and then by02:07:04
elsewhere something else because it is02:07:07
true that the media then that's it's02:07:08
obviously they enjoy it they love it02:07:11
the internal controversies he raises in02:07:15
pin you have to add the mayonnaise02:07:17
as much as they can but02:07:20
reality in our action groups02:07:23
reality of rebellious France02:07:25
uh quite frankly the vast majority02:07:28
activists of rebellious France02:07:30
today but they are proud02:07:32
to belong to rebellious France because02:07:34
that moreover the questions they02:07:37
they still come down to02:07:38
fundamental orientation questions therefore02:07:41
this is what happened on the issue02:07:42
pensions that's what happened02:07:44
after Naël's death this is what happened02:07:46
now turns to the question of02:07:47
Palestine and quite frankly I02:07:50
finally if if I see for example the02:07:51
different groups of actions that there are02:07:52
in the constituency where I was elected02:07:55
on the one hand the attendance at these groups02:07:56
of action is more important than there is02:07:58
some time there are newcomers02:08:02
based on the positions we hold02:08:04
on the question of Palestine02:08:06
Gaza well you understood uh and and and02:08:11
in reality uh but it's it's it's02:08:14
how to say it's the opposite of this02:08:16
that we can see the spectacle that we who02:08:18
which is served to us on the on the02:08:20
TV sets TV sets across02:08:22
certain media figures where we have02:08:23
the impression that it is happening02:08:24
to explode when not me it's it's02:08:27
It’s the opposite that I see there02:08:28
we're nearing the end of the show for me02:08:30
I have two last questions02:08:31
first is what you believe02:08:33
Nevertheless02:08:35
to the continuity of the nups or for02:08:38
you need to move on uh I02:08:40
think that the nups she imposes herself on her02:08:41
components, that is to say that in fact we02:08:43
will continue to experience what we experienced in02:08:44
2022 to know uh well how uh PSPC02:08:50
ELV which are actually uh02:08:53
organizations incapable of actually02:08:54
win uh uh a vote even even02:08:58
I'm not even talking about winning but I have the02:08:59
presidential and legislative which02:09:01
follow that it is also linked to the way02:09:02
of which this election is organized uh these02:09:04
organizations there for me they are02:09:06
dedicated to playing a role that will be02:09:07
groupouscular in fact and therefore if they02:09:09
want to continue to exist it will02:09:11
that's it for her it's a02:09:13
de facto marriage of convenience uh after me02:09:16
I think to come back to what we were saying02:09:18
on nupes just now that it remains a02:09:21
electoral DIY that is relevant02:09:23
in a specific context, that is to say02:09:25
I'm very smart and he's the one who can02:09:28
tell us what will happen02:09:29
presidential in relation to this02:09:30
nupess because I heard from here the02:09:32
people who are going to call for a primary and02:09:34
we know how it goes02:09:35
primary recycling machine02:09:37
systematically the candidate with the most02:09:39
moderate so we know very well that02:09:40
Mélenchon or his successor02:09:42
successor will not accept seou from02:09:45
beg for this game so there will be02:09:47
probably other candidates02:09:48
the election and uh we'll see what happens02:09:51
the what gives the what gives this02:09:54
election there but what is certain02:09:55
is that in the meantime there will be others02:09:56
elections there will be European elections there02:09:57
there will be municipal elections and so on02:09:59
but for me the nupes will continue02:10:01
to impose oneself on forces which are on the02:10:02
decline and now finally remains there02:10:05
for now there will be one one one02:10:08
a political talent of France02:10:09
rebellious to actually impose one's role02:10:13
hegemonic to this organization there its02:10:15
watchwords02:10:17
uh uh without having to temper them if02:10:21
whatever it may be and if they succeed, well02:10:23
for me in fact it's already it's already02:10:24
that's what I'm good at winning, that's what I'm doing02:10:27
it comes in two sentences about the future of02:10:28
the nuupesse I was going to say we will see02:10:30
okay we'll see and then but there is02:10:33
there is there is a thing that there is a02:10:35
one thing that is certain is that it is not02:10:38
there can be no question02:10:40
to abandon the break line on02:10:42
which laanupes was constituted it is02:10:44
on that it happens02:10:45
play on laanupes me i just say in02:10:49
a sentence but in fact for me everything02:10:50
everything lies in this running ha of02:10:52
Rousell who spends his time saying that he02:10:53
leaves the nupette which in fact is02:10:55
still there so I think that in fact the02:10:57
answer lies in this in this runing g02:10:59
they don't have any officially there yet02:11:00
I didn't understand, no, it's him who02:11:02
certainly not in his head but afterwards02:11:04
elsewhere by the way, I saw that at02:11:08
at some point a vote then no it a02:11:09
attempt by the parliamentary group to02:11:11
leave but he didn't leave there02:11:13
question ANUP, I always have laanupè02:11:15
it was not an outstretched hand it was a02:11:16
twisted arm ok we Arve we said yes it's02:11:18
that now you sign or you die02:11:20
they signed the communists they02:11:22
says we've done the math, we're going to die02:11:24
so we sign and it was reality for me02:11:28
I neither have the idea that in a part02:11:31
from the social democratic bloc the Greens02:11:33
there is electoral potential02:11:35
real not big but enough to prevent02:11:38
a victory in quotes from to02:11:40
election so no but that's why02:11:41
To answer your question directly, I02:11:43
I'm going to be really quick, it's just02:11:44
say for the moment Mélenchon he has02:11:45
succeeded twice in 2017 in 2022 to have02:11:47
the CSP+ electorate with some qualifications and02:11:49
cetera averse to conflict et cetera by02:11:52
the captive vote he told them I am the02:11:53
first on the left in class02:11:54
popular you want for me served you02:11:56
for nothing they more or less did it02:11:57
choice to serve no purpose example anidalgo02:12:00
Yannick jado but still their02:12:01
electorate turned towards France02:12:03
but we know that it is a tactic to02:12:04
short term and that this captive electorate02:12:06
he is very volatile he leaves very quickly02:12:08
and so the nupes will be there02:12:10
political condition to organize a02:12:11
massive balance of power in which the02:12:13
Place de la France Somise stabilizes02:12:15
precisely is structured and then it02:12:17
there is a possibility that it persists on02:12:18
the break line after if there is no02:12:20
of the breaking line I say it is necessary02:12:22
in fact I say we must not enter it02:12:23
you should not sell the bear's PO before02:12:26
no but you say that they imposed that and02:12:27
so the others were a little obliged02:12:29
to sign but does that mean02:12:30
because does that mean02:12:31
laif always has an interest in bringing together these02:12:34
left there because there are some who02:12:35
are in good mode listen let's do02:12:37
solo rider anyway if we put them02:12:38
inside well it gives russelles which02:12:41
take advantage of all that of course but02:12:42
did Mélenchon have the choice to02:12:44
not meet the unit request of the02:12:45
social camp which expressed itself on leaving02:12:47
of the presidency we already had02:12:49
criticized in 2017, this is what allowed02:12:50
anyway there so the problem is that02:12:52
it’s that we’re stuck, that’s what happened02:12:53
prevented the majority of Macron in fact he02:12:54
We must never lose sight of the02:12:57
tripartition of the political field with a02:12:59
extreme right which appears more and more02:13:02
more like a force of alternation02:13:04
legitimized by the macronie by the media02:13:05
by the system et cetera to make02:13:07
counterbalance to that laanupè is necessary02:13:09
it is a battle which is open which02:13:11
it's not over it's a battle02:13:13
to use the old slogans he02:13:15
there is a fight for the Union and the Union02:13:17
is a fight the Union is a fight that02:13:19
means that it is a fight so that02:13:20
the breaking line may prevail02:13:22
this is the condition in reality so that02:13:24
the Union exists I say it is necessary02:13:26
understand that what allowed the02:13:28
France's rebelliousness to impose itself is02:13:31
the entire recomposition of the left02:13:32
from 2005 from the fight for02:13:34
the name against the constitutional treatyDescription:
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