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Russian
00:00:00
you know, of course, blood will run through your veins00:00:03
from your story of what you are00:00:06
telling. For more than an hour now I will ask you a00:00:10
question that is very important to me. It may be unpleasant for00:00:14
you as a Russian person.00:00:19
Well, our frank conversation,00:00:22
you know, when I was little I00:00:26
loved very much I was interested in history, I read a lot00:00:28
and watched videos that it was00:00:31
possible to watch then. I was always amazed00:00:34
how the Germans were00:00:36
us, the geths of Schiller, Bach, Beethoven,00:00:41
Nietzsche, Kant, how the Germans could show00:00:46
such cruelty during the Second World00:00:49
War, how could they torture00:00:52
people like that,00:00:54
poison them with gas in gas chambers, cut them,00:00:59
carry them out experiments on children and so on, I00:01:03
can’t understand this in any way. Right00:01:05
now, I can’t understand. We all00:01:09
can’t understand here in Ukraine. Here in Ukraine,00:01:11
here is the Russian people. It would seem what a00:01:14
wonderful Russian culture is00:01:18
Pushkin Lermontov Dostoevsky Nekrasov00:01:21
block Mayakovsky00:01:23
to list and list Great00:01:27
culture certainly Great00:01:29
and here for no reason the Russian army came to us,00:01:34
which brought not00:01:37
just the death of the civilian population Well, it00:01:40
brought00:01:43
suffering and torment of ordinary people That's00:01:47
where they knock it out of the Russian army, they00:01:50
definitely find torturers there, they00:01:52
definitely find00:01:54
tens of hundreds of people who were killed with their00:01:56
hands tied behind them who were00:02:00
abused again, rape, women,00:02:02
men, children, again, this whole prison00:02:06
culture, this whole terrible story. It00:02:10
has spilled out now in Ukraine.00:02:13
Please tell me what the00:02:16
deep Russian people are like today,00:02:18
representatives of which00:02:21
came to the territory of Ukraine in huge numbers,00:02:24
showing us patterns of life and life that are alien to us.00:02:27
behavior00:02:30
and more than a hundred thousand have already been killed How many of the00:02:33
quantitative Russians I mean what kind of00:02:36
deep Russian people are they00:02:39
and how the prison subculture influenced the00:02:44
Russians’ perception of life00:02:47
this is a very00:02:49
large, voluminous question the00:02:54
answer is unlikely to be very00:02:56
laconic and short But before I00:02:59
answer to me as a person who00:03:03
Despite the fact that I have been living in France since00:03:06
2015 Despite the fact that I00:03:11
myself suffered from this regime,00:03:15
nevertheless, I am truly a product,00:03:17
here I am a Russian person, I was born in00:03:20
Russia in Samara and00:03:23
most of the blood is in me this is a00:03:26
Russian person, although one 1600:03:30
in me there is Ukrainian blood, my grandmother is00:03:32
Lyudmila Mikhailovna Olezhka, on my mother’s00:03:35
side. But nevertheless, despite the fact that I have been00:03:41
outside Russia for more than seven years, despite the fact that it00:03:46
would seem that I have not cried there for more than00:03:49
seven years taxes in Russia and so on00:03:52
I feel very deeply00:03:55
responsible00:03:58
That’s because I’m Russian for what00:04:00
Russia is now00:04:03
doing in Ukraine for the enormous evil00:04:06
that the00:04:07
Russian Federation armed forces00:04:09
brought to Ukraine00:04:12
and I don’t want to be a good Russian in your eyes and in the eyes of00:04:16
your respected viewers00:04:19
or someone, I just want to apologize as a human being00:04:24
for the fact that I am involved in the00:04:27
world that brought this evil and this00:04:31
enormous pain to Ukraine and that you00:04:34
understood00:04:36
starting from February 24 when you saw the00:04:40
first missiles,00:04:42
so we gathered as a team and I and Dan00:04:45
Pshenichny all the rest Seryoga Savelyev00:04:48
we were in shock and we didn’t understand how this was00:04:53
even possible, so how is this possible00:04:56
and we gave our word that we would do everything00:05:00
possible that depended on us from our00:05:04
modest strength to, on the one hand,00:05:08
stop this as soon as possible evil and00:05:10
stop this vile war00:05:12
and, on the other hand, do everything possible00:05:15
to provide maximum assistance to Ukraine00:05:18
so that all the facts that we become00:05:22
aware of. The cruel treatment of00:05:25
Ukrainian prisoners of war in the Russian00:05:28
institutions of the Federal Penitentiary Service in these current00:05:30
concentration camps. The00:05:32
cruel treatment of00:05:35
Ukrainians in the occupied territories,00:05:38
places of deprivation of liberty during the capture.00:05:40
so that all these facts are fully00:05:45
documented and disclosed, and all00:05:48
those responsible for this are punished both within the00:05:51
framework of Ukrainian national00:05:53
legislation and the work of your00:05:55
law enforcement system, and here I do00:05:59
n’t think it’s a secret anymore. For example,00:06:03
we spent almost the entire working week00:06:05
working closely together with00:06:08
representatives of the Ukrainian00:06:09
law enforcement agencies who00:06:10
came to France and most of00:06:13
our team and those whom we helped00:06:15
evacuate, except for one not very00:06:18
good person, to put it mildly, they all00:06:20
visited the Ukrainian Embassy and then00:06:22
testified to investigators who00:06:25
specially flew from Ukraine in order to00:06:27
be able to provide our assistance in the same way00:06:30
as and as part of the work of00:06:34
investigators from Gaga, here is their00:06:36
international investigation. We are00:06:38
also providing assistance. We are passing on the00:06:41
materials and documents that we00:06:42
have developed thanks to the network of our00:06:45
sources this year and we still have00:06:48
before the end of the year. I hope we will still00:06:49
send another hard drive to the commission. The UN,00:06:52
which is also investigating00:06:54
war crimes against00:06:57
humanity that00:06:58
were committed in Ukraine, that is, we00:07:01
really take00:07:03
part in ensuring that the perpetrators are00:07:05
punished, but you still asked a00:07:09
broader question about what the00:07:12
deep people are. I’ll be00:07:15
honest. At some point I00:07:18
found myself very demoralized when in00:07:22
June at the end of June00:07:24
2020 I found out that00:07:27
this scoundrel scoundrel terrorist00:07:32
Putin is sucking up Yevgeny Prigozhin00:07:36
is recruiting convicted prisoners00:07:39
to be sent to war, for me it was a00:07:43
huge shock because for me00:07:45
the prisoner is a Russian prisoner these are the00:07:48
same people whom we protected from00:07:51
torture, from bullying, from rape,00:07:54
to whom we helped, to whom we00:07:57
spent a huge amount of time00:08:00
and money.00:08:01
And when I found out that from Russian prisons there are00:08:04
people who themselves went through the00:08:07
walls who understand perfectly well what00:08:09
these cruel practices are like. -some of00:08:12
them00:08:13
agree to go to Ukraine as00:08:15
mercenaries,00:08:17
take up arms and shoot. For me there00:08:20
was a very difficult moment of acceptance, I did00:08:23
n’t believe it at all and tried to double-check00:08:25
this information as carefully as possible,00:08:29
then it was all published, and it00:08:31
turned out that we became the first00:08:33
major insiders who00:08:34
exposed this nonsense scheme and00:08:37
so, answering your question00:08:41
and answering my own question00:08:43
to myself, how did this become possible?00:08:47
I believe that there is no00:08:51
uniform homogeneous00:08:54
concept, here they are, the Russian people are00:08:57
among the Russian people, who00:09:00
mindlessly watched enough of this stupid00:09:03
zombie propaganda box, being in00:09:06
some marginal position and with a00:09:09
long term of imprisonment for00:09:11
some terrible crimes,00:09:13
they agree to agree to the conditions of Prigozhin and00:09:18
Putin and take part in military00:09:21
aggression, there are these people whom I will00:09:23
never call a good word, I will never00:09:26
shake hands with them, and so on Then, at the00:09:28
same time, there is a part of our00:09:31
people who are also sitting in dungeons and00:09:34
who refuse to take part in00:09:37
recruitment; this is the majority of prisoners00:09:39
who refuse to go with00:09:42
Prigozhin and who understand that it is00:09:45
better for them to stay in these torture chambers behind the00:09:47
walls where they can easily lose a00:09:50
phalanx of a finger a hand or just an00:09:53
arm or an eye working in an industrial zone on00:09:56
outdated equipment where you can00:09:58
easily be regularly beaten by00:10:00
special forces but not go to war against Ukraine, there is00:10:03
some part of those who00:10:06
remain in these torture chambers and do not go to00:10:08
war, most of them are still if we00:10:10
We are now talking about prisoners about the00:10:12
people who I consider to be those whom we00:10:15
protect, if we take people at large00:10:18
in Russia,00:10:19
there are,00:10:22
according to my feelings,00:10:25
5-10 percent of the people00:10:28
who go to these putting-out rallies00:10:31
who are00:10:34
fooled by propaganda, but that minority00:10:37
who talk loudly and creates an00:10:40
illusion that supposedly Putin00:10:42
is supported by the majority Although00:10:44
not many people support him, there is00:10:46
such a part of people, there is a large part of00:10:49
people who, in their kitchens,00:10:53
very carefully talk to each other about00:10:56
dissatisfaction with the war, dissatisfaction with Putin,00:10:59
dissatisfaction with his oligarchs, dissatisfaction with00:11:02
torture prisons, but they say it00:11:05
very quietly in kitchen And when they go out00:11:08
into the street and a state propaganda correspondent comes up to them00:11:10
and says what do you say00:11:13
about Vladimir Putin and this00:11:15
same person understands perfectly well what00:11:17
country he lives in, what he will tell the truth now,00:11:19
tomorrow he will be fired,00:11:23
his children’s brothers’ parents will be fired from all positions sisters and him00:11:27
himself, it is possible to plant drugs or00:11:29
there is some kind of corpse or something to do with him00:11:32
and therefore the same people00:11:34
Going out into the street, this is such a controlled00:11:38
majority with the help of fear, they say that00:11:40
they supposedly support everyone And00:11:42
when they come into the apartment and00:11:44
close the door,00:11:45
they exhale and in the soul inside in a narrow circle00:11:49
they do not agree with this and there is another00:11:53
group of them, too, there are not many of them, in fact, those00:11:55
who like Ilya Yashin and Alexei00:11:58
Navalny00:12:00
show integrity, which00:12:03
is the Russian current00:12:04
democratic opposition but which00:12:07
is in the minority not because they are a00:12:11
minority, but because for00:12:13
decades, starting from the 90s, Russian00:12:17
special services This is the legacy of the KGB, which00:12:20
became the FSB, with the help of various00:12:22
operational combinations of compromising evidence of00:12:25
counterintelligence00:12:27
activities, they separate into flour the00:12:30
human rights community, the opposition, they00:12:32
select keys to everyone,00:12:35
monitor personal correspondence and contacts and00:12:38
finds incriminating evidence with the help of00:12:40
extramarital affairs there, propensities for some kind of00:12:43
drug abuse,00:12:45
alcohol, and so on, somewhere he committed00:12:48
some kind of offense in the wrong place,00:12:50
crossed the road somewhere, took some small00:12:53
bribe and takes everyone to hooks That's why00:12:59
most of the people in Russia are here. As I see it,00:13:02
this is my opinion, this is not because I'm00:13:04
Russian. I want to. Yes, I understand.00:13:07
Explain myself that you know, we are all poor00:13:09
unfortunate people under this dictatorship, but no00:13:12
other people in the 21st century have been subjected to00:13:16
this vile insidious00:13:20
special operations and operational combinations00:13:22
like the Russian people, like the Russians in00:13:26
no other country, the special services have00:13:28
never directed all their power against00:13:31
society in order to take control of it.00:13:33
Therefore, if you want a00:13:36
long complex answer, there are some00:13:39
absolute outcasts who00:13:41
support both the war and Putin, and so00:13:44
on. and these same marginalized people00:13:47
After some time, when the00:13:49
debunking of Putin’s personality cult begins,00:13:52
just like we saw in the history of00:13:54
the country, the debunking of Stalin’s personality cult,00:13:57
these same ones who today are behind00:13:59
There are ready to fall throat in the front rows, they00:14:03
will be the first to go spitting00:14:05
to his grave Who and then these00:14:09
changelings are the majority who00:14:12
are Not because they are cowards but00:14:14
because they really soberly00:14:16
assess how the system works and they00:14:19
assess these risks and they, fearing them, are00:14:22
now showing00:14:24
civil00:14:27
inaction and allowing Give an opportunity to00:14:30
some minority To impose on them the00:14:32
rules of the game, to invent wars, and so00:14:35
on, there is a small group that is00:14:37
now still trying with the last of its00:14:41
strength to resist this regime. But there are00:14:44
fewer and fewer of them in freedom, and00:14:46
most of them are either in prison or00:14:48
have gone abroad and00:14:51
are trying to something to do about00:14:53
this situation00:14:56
It’s wild, monstrous and probably in many ways we are to blame.00:15:02
Of course we are to blame before00:15:04
you too Dear respected Ukrainians and00:15:07
before ourselves because we00:15:09
lost our own country and00:15:11
because, for example, I was a small00:15:15
teenager, but when it fell apart The00:15:18
Soviet Union,00:15:20
most people turned out to be satisfied with the fact00:15:24
that the monument to Dzerzhinsky was00:15:26
toppled, and what was left was a super00:15:28
special service with a huge amount of00:15:31
compromising information on them with a huge00:15:34
amount of secret agents00:15:37
with a huge number of secret vile00:15:40
inhuman methods with which00:15:42
they recruit people and take control of them as well00:15:45
as rape and00:15:47
incriminating evidence and some other variations,00:15:49
we all allowed that we00:15:52
then retained this super-special service with a00:15:56
minus sign, there are definitely evil geniuses there, but they are very00:15:58
evil and very vile, that’s why here00:16:03
in front, of course, there after some00:16:06
time Transit of power, of course, and war00:16:10
will stop and of course, no matter who of us00:16:14
now calls himself a good Russian00:16:16
or a bad one. We will all take00:16:19
part in payments for preparations,00:16:22
restoration of Ukraine, indications of all possible00:16:24
assistance, compensation, compensation for00:16:26
damages. But I hope that if we talk about all00:16:31
Russians, we are talking about all Russians00:16:33
in the first place we just need to00:16:35
wise up and the next time00:16:39
this window appears, a window of opportunity for00:16:41
change, transformation of the00:16:43
state itself, we need to not clap our hands00:16:47
joyfully and knock down a couple of monuments, the monument will need to be00:16:50
liquidated, abolish the FSB, it00:16:54
will need to be done from the Kremlin and beyond the Lubyanka, here is a00:16:57
museum of totalitarianism so that all00:17:00
subsequent generations will come there00:17:03
and we saw these real horrors and00:17:06
of course, of course, it will be necessary to00:17:08
open all these archives of compromising evidence and00:17:12
illustrate everyone who was in one way or00:17:15
another involved as employees00:17:17
of the special services or their agents and helped to00:17:22
allow what now we see is what has been00:17:26
happening against the Russians for the last 2000:17:28
years and then which unfortunately has been00:17:31
happening lately against Ukraine00:17:35
and UkrainiansDescription:
Владимир Осечкин, бывший российский предприниматель, правозащитник, основатель общественного проекта Gulagu.net, в интервью Дмитрию Гордону рассказал о глубинном российском народе и вербовке заключенных Пригожиным. Купить эксклюзивные NFT из коллекции SUPER GORDON можно тут – https://supergordonnft.com Перспективное вложение и помощь украинской армии! Подписывайтесь на инстаграм NFT коллекции Super Gordon: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Телеграм: https://t.me/super_gordon Официальный канал программы "В гостях у Дмитрия Гордона" https://www.youtube.com/user/vgostyahugordona?sub_confirmation=1 Официальный канал Дмитрия Гордона https://www.youtube.com/user/DmytriyGordon?sub_confirmation=1 Следите за новостями и читайте аналитику на общественно-политическом сайте "ГОРДОН": https://gordonua.com/ukr/ По вопросам рекламы пишите на [email protected] Официальный магазин с мерчем и конфетами Дмитрия Гордона: https://gordonshop.com.ua. Покупая, помогаешь ВСУ! Присоединяйтесь к нам в соцсетях! https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser https://www.tiktok.com/@gordondmytro? https://twitter.com/dmitry_gordon https://t.me/dmytrogordon_official https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser https://t.me/s/gordonuacom https://invite.viber.com/?g2=AQABYNa0%2Brz9Pkzt0NnTdm5DcUzQHlf7QrDvmsZ1C9h5ZjM%2FKIIfxji%2BDRkQ6fy9&lang=ru https://twitter.com/Gordonuacom "В гостях у Дмитрия Гордона" — авторская программа Дмитрия Гордона, которая выходит с 1996 года. Формат программы — беседы с выдающимися современниками: деятелями культуры, искусства, науки, спорта и политики. Это люди, которым есть что сказать о себе и об эпохе. В разные годы ее героями были Михаил Ходорковский, Вахтанг Кикабидзе, Александр Невзоров, Виталий и Владимир Кличко, Андрей Шевченко, Гарри Каспаров, Владимир Зеленский, Моргенштерн, Андрей Данилко, Андрей Макаревич, Роман Виктюк, Армен Джигарханян, Николай Амосов, Михаил Горбачев, Виктор Ющенко, Леонид Кравчук, Михаил Жванецкий, Евгений Евтушенко, Муслим Магомаев, Олег Блохин, Виктор Суворов, Михаил Саакашвили, Борис Березовский... Всего — более 1000 знаменитостей
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