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pères

léglise

préoccupations

pastorales

sandrine

caneri

—

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[Music]

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[Music]

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just a few moments in the heart

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youtube hi and kaunas

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it's going

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to start with prayer so we had to

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give a bit of a first overview

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in our first meeting

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five weeks ago it's really starting

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with the prior hockey these characters who

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say the prayer or it's me you can

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you can say it of course blessed and lasts

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to crises you who is there our god who

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made simple to pecho put in his

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mouth it

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is that they by preaching to the universe to

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the net by sending them the spirit very

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is this a roof who love men and

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glory to you and me there I also ask you

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to reactivate slideshow because there is

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something that it is enough has therefore its

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sides of percentage little cat to be

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down so we see that we are going to I greet

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all the participants and we are going to try

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to do no second weddings and in

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sweat to introduce a little it is

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losing and the church these giants of the

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city cap and ul so we will continue by

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delving into a few points of what

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we already presented five

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weeks ago so the first question that

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I asked myself why we

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said why we had to be interested in

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them we said that it was who

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had given us everything everything we will try to

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think about this question do

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his peers speak to our contemporary world

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then in the full view of the

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religious field

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they are first close to the juries of the

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origins geographically historically

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linguistically and especially

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culturally

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so that is important because the closer

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we are to the origins which have those

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close to Christ so they

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transmit to us something that

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we with our contemporary world

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risk losing with our modernity

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these writers have not 'other sources

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than the scriptures themselves therefore they

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rely on scriptures and their

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scriptures will nourish all

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the intelligence of the faith as a

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pioneer they are the first who

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explain the meaning of the faith

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after the apostles they invented the

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language of the time to

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take it into a world that was

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foreign to it, particularly in the Greek world and

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the pagan world from which we

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escape. They are pastors and theologians,

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sometimes they are men of power, they

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are always spiritual, always

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exegetes and theologians, Krischer

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builders. and their theology is

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not distinguished from their spirituality

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that is very important they transmit

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an organic teaching between

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theology and spiritual life which remains

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of a very vibrant authenticity

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their position vis-à-vis the tradition

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of the church and to make it live in

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fidelity to the deposits received from the

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apostles a little according to what Paul says

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in his letter and by the novelty

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inhabited by the spirit which allows us to

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adapt to all situations and

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all times,

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this is why when we

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question ourselves whatever the subject on

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which we question ourselves we

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can seek our first

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answers first in the

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clichéd writings of the fathers then

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an infinite field of possibilities will open up for us which

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allows us to find an

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adequate answer for our time and as

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Irenaeus of Lyon said in the second century

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to see clearly today we must

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question the tradition which comes from the

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apostles so that is really very

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important

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let's question the tradition which comes from the

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apostles and therefore questioning the pairs

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since they are the direct successors

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of the apostles

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then then with regard to

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the church as such it

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therefore testifies to a church which is at their time

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in any case in the east in the first

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centuries relatively united them that munich

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in the full sense of the term

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he professes once defined in the

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councils it is costil which has no

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equal yes it is the founding councils

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and as such they serve as the foundation of the

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current ecumenical dialogue and

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all our theological reflections

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inside each church

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they belong to a church in full

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construction which is founded on the blood

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of the martyrs

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hence an extraordinary resonance with

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the young churches of today for

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example the churches of Africa or

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other chains church

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they experienced with the lan by constantine

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and his successors

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the passage from the clandestine church

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that which is called the church of the

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catacombs to the state church and we

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benefit from those of this peace of

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the church they were able to say even if

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we obviously see the limits

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the fathers had to exercise formulate a

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double ecclesial freedom they did

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more or less as they were able double

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ecclesial freedom and vis-à-vis the

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temporal power and a on the one hand

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when she is persecuted judge and

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on the other hand when it is she who judges

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so that is also very important in

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relation to temporal power in the

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relationship between the army and the world

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the fathers are at the crossroads of several

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Jewish Greek civilizations

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Eastern Western Roman

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so we are at a crossroads in Douala

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they are confronted

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with a foreign pagan culture and

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sometimes they come from this culture

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according to each pair a somewhat

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particular itinerary the staff and have

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used it to create an

00:10:09

authentically Christian culture there was

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a certain globalization at their time

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sedan pierre roman and they developed

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a universal type of Christianity and so

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that is very important if for us

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are of the globalization of

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globalization

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they developed the very modern idea of

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infinite progress of man in god

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so that is also something

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that we can dig into

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they have a vote invented the notion of

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persons and laid the foundations of all

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our theology of the ipo stage so

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this the person d at home if we can

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express it this way

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therefore our current world is without

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context with many analogies with

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the patristic era although there are

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obviously many many

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obvious differences

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then as at that moment

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still today the world passes while a another

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is being born

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so that is important because they

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too at their time there were

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passages which may not be so far

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from the type of passage in which we

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are today as at that

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time too today 'still today

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the church is engaged in a very delicate

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discernment of spiritual and

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cultural values in a certain process

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of assimilation and at the same time of

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purification

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thanks to this discernment

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the church can maintain its identity and

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offer to our contemporary world which

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is of a fantastic complexity of the

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riches that faith can and must

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give it in an adapted human language

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so all this constitutes a kind of

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challenge for the life of the church as a

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whole and in a particular way for

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theology

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therefore it cannot be deprive herself of

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drawing on the works of the fathers if she

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wants to try to answer

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the questions she asks herself and which arise

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for all of us today as

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they arise in the same

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way and always within the

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scriptures so we have a a bit like two

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poles the writing pole and the fathers

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so we often talk about the golden age of the

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fathers but in fact there is a certain

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limit to

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this analogy because the golden age

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was not everything it was not perfect

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at that time and nor in the rest of

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time and our century in particular would

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not be more in decadence than

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was certain at certain moments in

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the life of the fathers in fact at the time of

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the golden age of the fathers there have been

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extremely troubled periods

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outside the church as well as

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inside the church there have

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been denials there have been

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gains and 10 times at a time there has been

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collusion with political power

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there were schisms, heresies without

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a shadow and constantly renewed, there were

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conflicts between communities between bishops

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and all this was not only

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not everyday for Christians but

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took on proportions which have

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rarely been equaled until our days

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so we let us complain about our

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difficulties but there were already

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many of them so let us not idealize the

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world of the fathers nor transpose it

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as it is today

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the society the culture the language the

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mentality everything has changed

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the distance that separates us from the

00:13:49

big ones but yet we

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still have all these points in common I think

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it's important to note them I like

00:13:57

here on this slide three

00:14:00

questions that we can

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answer perhaps more more further

00:14:04

why their language is difficult so

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why do we enter with difficulty

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it is not like that from the outset we enter

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straight away like that with the fathers this is

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how we will become familiar we had

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already talked about it a little there the

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first time how we will be able to

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try to better it understand

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and how to understand the notion of

00:14:24

tradition because the peers as you

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said are a chain are a chain that

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sees there from the origins

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until today traces us through

00:14:32

crosses us and crosses the life of

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the church

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the second meeting

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how the pairs are formed and so

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we have institutes of theology

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but they had neither the

00:14:46

Saint-Serge institute nor all the artists uda ten

00:14:49

from new york from simple said mir and two

00:14:51

in russia everywhere else so the

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elders and the succession of generations

00:14:57

were fundamental was fundamental

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for the fathers the reasons in fact

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were masters who taught

00:15:07

letters they learned letters and

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all the other subjects

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there like geography history

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astronomy sciences the arts and

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a once they were instructed in

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all the secular sciences it was

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formed by the life of the church and what

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guides the life of the church

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therefore generally priests in

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important positions where most of the

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time even bishops and by

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elders who explained the scriptures to

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his peers for example origen didym

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gregoire de nazianze apollinaire jérôme

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theodore and learned the scriptures

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learned the languages of the scriptures and

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trained themselves in the

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Christian and ecclesial understanding of the scriptures

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so this is what we call the

00:15:53

tradition therefore the importance is capital

00:15:56

until today and it was

00:16:00

extremely alive at the time since

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there were very few manuscripts very

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few codices in circulation and we

00:16:07

learned very little theology in

00:16:08

books practically not but rather

00:16:11

with the bishops of the

00:16:13

church leaders in the life of the church and in

00:16:15

the scriptures that is why I

00:16:17

put you this little comment from papiasse

00:16:20

who is a bishop of the second century

00:16:22

bishop of ira police

00:16:24

which shows to what extent this

00:16:27

oral tradition was fundamental because

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it is not only the fact that it

00:16:31

is said orally

00:16:32

it is the fact that we receive

00:16:35

all our training in another land and that it is

00:16:38

because that we are a real son that little by

00:16:40

little we become a father and so this is

00:16:42

what Papiasse says for you I will

00:16:45

not hesitate to add to my explanations what

00:16:48

I learned in the past from the

00:16:49

presbyteries and of which I have kept the

00:16:51

remembrance in order to strengthen the truth

00:16:55

because I did not like with those

00:16:58

who remember

00:17:00

foreign commandments but with those who

00:17:03

recall the commandments given by

00:17:05

the Lord you see we stick to

00:17:07

the gospel if some one arrived

00:17:10

who had been in the

00:17:12

company of presbyots I was inquiring about

00:17:14

the words of the presbyteries and who are

00:17:17

these presbytes allheily name what they

00:17:19

say andré or pierre or philippe or

00:17:22

thomas or jacques or jean or mathieu or

00:17:25

some other disciples of the lord I

00:17:28

did not think that the things that

00:17:29

come from books are as

00:17:32

useful to me as what comes from a

00:17:34

living and lasting word you see then

00:17:37

we are really in another our

00:17:39

period

00:17:40

this word because it is alive

00:17:42

it is durable because it is

00:17:43

alive because it is impregnated in the

00:17:45

heart of the one who receives it because it

00:17:47

is in direct contact with the

00:17:49

apostles

00:17:50

so that is really very very

00:17:53

important and therefore we can ask the

00:17:57

question how would it be how would it be is

00:17:59

it that origen became a genius of

00:18:03

the bible how did john chrysostom

00:18:06

become one of the greatest preachers

00:18:07

of his time how did jerome da vinci the

00:18:11

great translator of the bible and the

00:18:14

fathers how did irenaeus of lyon become

00:18:16

the great theologian of the second century

00:18:18

and therefore if it is through this frequentation

00:18:21

of the scriptures by the frequentation of the

00:18:23

ancients of what they were before

00:18:25

and all his peers themselves received from the

00:18:28

fathers who preceded them then the

00:18:32

holy bible is obviously for

00:18:33

the Persians and all their theology

00:18:35

for a long time

00:18:37

it did not exist as we

00:18:39

know it today

00:18:40

it circulated in the form of small

00:18:42

manuscripts copied by hand in an

00:18:45

extremely small number of copies

00:18:47

it contained one or more books

00:18:50

the identity the content the language and

00:18:52

the state of the texts were absolutely

00:18:54

variable and it could

00:18:57

be that we could not find

00:18:59

absolutely identical bibles even after the

00:19:02

fourth century when we were

00:19:05

able to create what we

00:19:06

call codices which are therefore the

00:19:08

ancestors of our books to contain

00:19:12

the whole of the old and the new

00:19:13

testament so they learn

00:19:15

all new testament almost by heart

00:19:18

the psalms the prophets and then little

00:19:21

by little they learn from all the

00:19:23

remains of writing but they always

00:19:25

only have books by piece if you

00:19:28

want they do not have a bible like we

00:19:29

have next to us in addition in

00:19:32

translation and therefore it is not surprising

00:19:35

that receiving time from their bishop

00:19:39

of the life of the church

00:19:42

the scriptures it is little by little ruminating

00:19:46

and learned by heart their bible of

00:19:49

potatoes them and according to the gospels the

00:19:51

letters of paul etc.

00:19:53

they do not shout they do not speak and do

00:19:56

not write without it without quoting it

00:19:59

without integrating it like something

00:20:02

obvious

00:20:03

because they do have inside their

00:20:05

heart in their thoughts in their

00:20:07

words everything heavy and biblical verses

00:20:10

rises in them and just read for

00:20:12

example the treatise of saint basil

00:20:14

dealing with the saint spirit every two

00:20:17

lines to a quote from the Bible, whether it

00:20:19

be Old or New

00:20:21

Testament and then they also

00:20:25

obviously have as training a life of

00:20:28

prayer and the work of the holy spirit

00:20:30

because their life of prayer was also

00:20:33

obviously intense then we

00:20:39

could also develop these attacks

00:20:42

and there we will try in a third

00:20:46

point to look a little at the first

00:20:48

llyod of succession of the fathers in the

00:20:50

first centuries because as everything

00:20:53

is planted in the first four five six

00:20:55

centuries

00:20:56

here once we have a good

00:20:58

knowledge of the rooms of its six

00:20:59

centuries, then we understand how

00:21:01

the tradition develops on this

00:21:05

completely solid and durable base,

00:21:07

this lasting truth as

00:21:10

Papiasse said a few moments ago, therefore the

00:21:15

first period of the father is called the

00:21:17

period of apostolic losses therefore the

00:21:20

writings are contemporary with those of the

00:21:22

apostles for example the letter of Clement

00:21:25

of Rome which during the first centuries

00:21:29

was sometimes part of the scriptures and

00:21:32

certain codecs under certain

00:21:34

hand or the pastor of the

00:21:37

mass also which circulated for a while

00:21:40

given among the writings and which

00:21:42

was then placed among the fathers in the

00:21:45

writings of this period also appears the

00:21:47

guild ac and the ace the epistle of barnabé

00:21:52

the letters dignard of antioch and

00:21:55

polycarp of smyrna the sentences of the

00:21:58

lord of papiasse and many other

00:22:00

things but it is so that you

00:22:02

already have some names of the cries of his peers

00:22:06

you can already hear them in the 12th

00:22:10

century it is the time of the apologists where

00:22:12

Apollo throws so they will make

00:22:13

the apology of Christianity face

00:22:16

practically game against the pagans or against

00:22:18

the Jews to show that

00:22:20

Christianity

00:22:21

here it is really a

00:22:23

solid tradition it is a tradition which is

00:22:26

worth investing all one's life that

00:22:28

one gives one's life for this tradition and

00:22:32

it is also an apology in the face of the

00:22:35

empire which in the first centuries

00:22:38

persecuted Christians

00:22:41

so there we can cite Aristide just a

00:22:45

bunch of his Athena Gore Theophile

00:22:48

of Antioch but the Iton of Sardis

00:22:50

the letter a job net and many others

00:22:53

So that's it, it's the apologists in the

00:22:57

2nd and 3rd century,

00:22:59

the fight will also become internal to

00:23:02

the church which because the church

00:23:04

within itself will be

00:23:05

confronted with heresies haug noz

00:23:07

schism and therefore we is at the time of

00:23:11

theologies a precursor so great

00:23:14

first great theologian it's really

00:23:16

Irénée de Lyon the end of the 2nd century which draws ass link

00:23:19

it's nothing from Carthage Clement

00:23:21

of Alexandria

00:23:22

Origen in the third century those are

00:23:24

big names we cannot miss

00:23:26

these big names if we want to know

00:23:28

a little about the very beginning of the era of the

00:23:32

fathers and then we arrive at the 4th century

00:23:36

4th and 5th century that I am

00:23:39

used to calling the golden age the

00:23:43

golden age of the fathers therefore a literature and

00:23:46

a theology which is not political

00:23:49

but which is marked by the transition to

00:23:52

the Constantinian church with the peace of

00:23:56

the church that is to say here is Constantine

00:23:58

will convert to Christianity and will

00:24:02

mobilize the entire empire to make this

00:24:05

empire a Christian empire and then there

00:24:08

will also be the rise of monasticism with

00:24:10

Antoine Antoine Legrand and this fourth

00:24:14

is 6th and 5th century will be marked

00:24:16

by very large cases council and therefore

00:24:19

which are fundamental absolutely

00:24:22

fundamental in which we must

00:24:24

always return to understand what

00:24:26

is our faith what is our

00:24:27

church life so neither it is a year 325

00:24:31

constantinople in 381 and fez in 431 and

00:24:36

chalcedon in 451

00:24:38

so that is is to give them names and

00:24:41

years that we absolutely must remember

00:24:42

to try to understand how it was

00:24:45

built and what was

00:24:47

said in its instructions obviously

00:24:49

that will not be part of our

00:24:51

work but here you will be able to see it

00:24:53

elsewhere

00:24:54

so the greatest figures of this

00:24:57

golden age will be usap from caesarea to tana

00:25:01

of alexandria hilar of poitiers basil

00:25:03

of caesarea

00:25:11

grégoire of nysse nas grégoire of

00:25:18

nazianze cyril of jerusalem jean

00:25:20

chrysostome ephrem the Syrian ambroise

00:25:22

2000 years Jerome Augustin Cyril

00:25:24

of Alexandria Theodore is of wax Leo

00:25:26

the Great

00:25:27

here finally there are many there are

00:25:29

Gregory the Great also good there are

00:25:31

many many many many

00:25:32

bread over a period of 100 years

00:25:35

we have a number of fathers c is a

00:25:38

major period there are many many

00:25:39

great people who are rising and who are going to

00:25:43

recapture everything that has been said

00:25:46

before and bring it to light

00:25:48

in thought in reflection in the

00:25:51

way of living the Christian life in

00:25:53

the pastoral life finally they will they will

00:25:56

be it will be fundamental and from

00:26:00

the 5th century the fathers become an

00:26:03

increasingly normative tradition

00:26:06

that is until selling here we are looking for

00:26:10

Christianity is looking for in that we have

00:26:14

led little by little to fixed the life of

00:26:17

the church and the life of faith in the

00:26:19

dogmas and in the instructions and then at

00:26:21

a given moment so it becomes normative

00:26:24

the literature will remain very

00:26:27

lively and original and we can say that

00:26:30

these are the lights of

00:26:32

ancient culture among Christians it is the

00:26:36

period of great theological syntheses

00:26:38

we arrive at a maturity the

00:26:42

dogmatic expression of the faith of the church arrives

00:26:44

at a true maturity but we must also

00:26:46

wage a fight it is the fight that everything

00:26:49

Christian must must lead to follow

00:26:52

Christ is so there we have like

00:26:57

no like no we have for example

00:27:01

gregory the great isidore of seville the

00:27:04

pseudo denys the areopagite maxim the

00:27:07

confessor very very great synthesis

00:27:09

romanov the mellon jean damascene and then

00:27:12

we have also all Cyriac literature

00:27:15

so we explained the last time

00:27:17

that there were a bit three poles among

00:27:18

the fathers the Latins the sandstones

00:27:21

and the Syriacs his which are

00:27:22

also very important they will be in

00:27:24

full swing with the series the onas jean

00:27:27

d 'apamée philoxène de mabhouh jacques of

00:27:29

his route and we talked about fremm

00:27:32

the last time it's towards antioch

00:27:33

jacques desse and then and then I until

00:27:39

today we could here make

00:27:41

a whole line of peers

00:27:43

until today great people who have

00:27:45

nourished the life of the church and who have

00:27:48

fertilized the life of the church and we

00:27:50

also said the last time that we

00:27:51

owe them almost everything and if we think

00:27:54

carefully we owe them absolutely everything there

00:27:57

would be no bibles if there was no

00:27:58

father there would be no church if there

00:28:00

was no father there would be there

00:28:02

would be no 'icon there would be no

00:28:05

liturgy would be necessary it is nothing without

00:28:08

the fathers we would have nothing that's it so that's

00:28:10

it we have to measure the

00:28:14

absolutely magnificent work that they have done

00:28:18

and so if we want to try to conclude

00:28:21

here is with this little presentation

00:28:26

let us understand why they are an example

00:28:28

for us why we nourish ourselves by being

00:28:32

around them reading them knowing them and

00:28:35

above all entering into their minds in the

00:28:37

sense they have of the Christ of the church will

00:28:40

help us today 'today men of the

00:28:42

21st century to become ever more

00:28:45

Christians to engage in the church

00:28:48

they have had an intense prayer life a

00:28:52

very intense pastoral life also they

00:28:56

have been privileged instruments of the

00:28:58

holy spirit that is very important

00:29:01

it leads us to think exactly

00:29:04

what the Christian life is what

00:29:06

the life of the church

00:29:07

is what the relationship to our neighbor is the

00:29:10

relationship to God the relationship to the father to the son and to the spirit

00:29:13

he us shows to what extent we live far

00:29:17

too much based on our

00:29:19

feelings, our emotions, our little

00:29:22

personal judgments and that we

00:29:24

are unable to think about the world

00:29:26

or to rethink our relationship with our neighbor

00:29:28

according to the categories of the gospel

00:29:33

explains to us how God is

00:29:34

merciful,

00:29:35

he is indignant when we are so

00:29:38

intransigent towards others and so

00:29:41

undemanding towards ourselves and

00:29:45

what is extraordinary in all his

00:29:46

peers that we have just cited is

00:29:49

their extreme diversity at the same time they

00:29:54

are very personal so there are

00:29:56

no two who feel each other each has their own

00:29:59

journey

00:30:00

even if there have been friendships good laugh

00:30:02

between them each to please from their own

00:30:07

background of their own history with everything he

00:30:10

received from the life of the church and

00:30:11

everything he received from his

00:30:12

predecessors to say something

00:30:15

new so there is really an extreme

00:30:18

diversity and at the same time they are in

00:30:21

perfect harmony and what has

00:30:24

always struck me is this consensus

00:30:26

of the fathers this consensus which is

00:30:27

absolutely incredible

00:30:29

so this consensus we have already said it

00:30:32

obviously concerns the ecumenical councils

00:30:35

so here is this time which is never

00:30:38

called into question by any of between them

00:30:41

whether it is those who are contemporary

00:30:43

with the instructions or whether it is those who

00:30:45

make them later and what

00:30:48

is major in this consensus is

00:30:51

precisely that it allows a

00:30:53

formidable diversity which is that of the spirit which

00:30:56

blows where it wants and therefore for example

00:30:59

the fathers can propose various

00:31:02

interpretations of the scriptures various

00:31:04

liturgical practices various ways of

00:31:07

creating various ways of leading

00:31:10

souls various ways of exercising

00:31:12

authority various ways of organizing a

00:31:15

diocese and so all that comes together. done in a

00:31:19

consensus because we respect the

00:31:23

mentalities the different languages the

00:31:25

ways of you to do that it is in

00:31:27

rome that it is however that they

00:31:28

do not opt that it is anizy ben allal

00:31:31

empire be immense

00:31:32

so there are there are customs

00:31:35

customs are not at all

00:31:37

we do not create disagreement at all all

00:31:40

this is brought together in a consensus which is

00:31:43

the consensus of the fathers they

00:31:45

also teach us discernment for

00:31:48

example capital discernment between

00:31:51

what is what it is our faith on what

00:31:53

our faith rests on what our

00:31:56

salvation rests and on much more

00:31:58

secondary things on secondary practices

00:32:00

they still teach us the faith of

00:32:03

the church and heresies

00:32:04

what is a heresy and what is

00:32:06

true faith what is the great

00:32:08

tradition of the church the great church

00:32:11

and what are the small

00:32:13

traditions of this or that place

00:32:15

that can be respected in

00:32:18

one place and be different in

00:32:20

another place and so each pair will

00:32:24

have their way of approaching

00:32:28

Christian life and in particular pastoral life

00:32:30

how they will teach how they will

00:32:32

spread the times around them how

00:32:35

they will train the Christians of their church

00:32:38

in those around them

00:32:41

and therefore we can read there it is

00:32:43

entirely legitimate to be more in

00:32:45

affinity with this or that father because

00:32:48

his language is vague or accepted to

00:32:50

join us more his personal life

00:32:54

will speak to us more personally there are

00:32:57

some who are martin are not martyrs there are

00:33:00

some there are those who have been confronted with

00:33:02

heresies there are those who have not been

00:33:04

confronted with there are those who have had to lose are experiencing the

00:33:08

persecutions of which they have they had to

00:33:10

face the persecutions

00:33:11

that is therefore according to the way in which they

00:33:14

lived at the time in which he was

00:33:15

we are more or less close to them so

00:33:18

let's not hesitate to browse around the

00:33:21

fathers right and left in front almost

00:33:25

everywhere and one day we will see

00:33:27

that there is one or more hoping for

00:33:30

several who we will be there will be closer

00:33:33

and then we will deepen we will meditate on

00:33:37

their words we will meditate on their message

00:33:39

we will approach them we will make them

00:33:40

a little protectors we will

00:33:43

ask them for advice and we will meditate with them on the

00:33:45

holy scriptures and

00:33:48

they will be for us an

00:33:51

inexhaustible source of deep inspiration because

00:33:54

they are giants

00:33:55

we do not forget and we are

00:33:57

dwarves perched on their shoulders if you

00:34:04

want to go deeper and well there is

00:34:06

a whole bibliography

00:34:08

but that I will leave to you watch it

00:34:11

quietly

00:34:16

there I don't want to be much longer

00:34:18

I think I've already said enough

00:34:35

thank you very much thank you very much looking

00:34:39

for Sandrine I'm just going to look

00:34:44

because I have a few questions I'm

00:34:46

thinking of Patrice and Lydie the fathers

00:34:49

are an example for us and we

00:34:52

owe them everything but they are not

00:34:55

infallible

00:34:56

they can sometimes make mistakes in their

00:34:59

lives or in their writings isn't it

00:35:03

so the question is how do we go about

00:35:06

trusting them completely

00:35:10

then what is very interesting in

00:35:13

this question is that fathers are

00:35:18

corrected by their peers, we had already

00:35:26

explained last time that they are

00:35:29

humans so they have the right to make

00:35:31

mistakes like us even if they are healthy

00:35:34

1 that is not someone perfect

00:35:37

that's not the goal

00:35:39

so they are human there are some

00:35:43

who make mistakes who can be

00:35:44

wrong on points but the points

00:35:46

on which they are wrong are most

00:35:48

of the time minor points i.e.

00:35:53

points which are not that they are

00:35:54

not part of the deposit of faith of

00:35:56

the church but even if these were major points

00:35:59

the fathers who will follow where the fathers who

00:36:02

are next to them will correct and therefore

00:36:06

let us not worry because if

00:36:09

we never read a father and see

00:36:11

things that seem strange to us that

00:36:13

we ourselves have not heard in the life

00:36:15

of the church, it is because they have been corrected

00:36:18

so

00:36:19

therefore we do not let's not worry because

00:36:21

as they will have us they help us to

00:36:24

enter into discernment

00:36:28

well we are going with them to discern

00:36:32

what in them a small thing is

00:36:35

perhaps not everything is perhaps no longer quite

00:36:36

accurate because that in the meantime

00:36:38

there was a council which determined

00:36:41

for example the theotokos the [ __ ]

00:36:44

always virgin before a suitor for

00:36:48

example so

00:36:50

so we do not have our clients

00:36:54

fear

00:36:55

Corsica and the slide which corrects

00:36:58

itself as d 'elsewhere the church

00:37:00

corrects us, whether it is teachers or

00:37:03

whether we are pastors in a parish, we

00:37:06

are corrected, we correct each

00:37:09

other because there is a consensus in

00:37:11

the life of the church that we are

00:37:12

all responsible for keep together

00:37:17

true deposit of faith and therefore and therefore we do

00:37:21

not say fear

00:37:22

the church will correct us and we

00:37:24

will correct a chorea knee will be

00:37:26

corrected together and we could the

00:37:28

others finally here it is a big

00:37:29

movement we are all responsible for the

00:37:31

life of the church in the life of faith of

00:37:32

the church

00:37:35

patrice student and shout thank you to

00:37:38

sandrine and thank you very much to the church a

00:37:43

thank you for this bibliography you

00:37:46

say to browse the writings of the fathers

00:37:48

is to find what they are or

00:37:51

the one who speaks to us but I

00:37:55

wonder if there is not if there is not

00:37:58

a progressive way of this reading

00:38:00

and this edition has a lover with which to

00:38:04

begin so then we must not

00:38:08

hesitate to start with simple things

00:38:10

I think that simple things are

00:38:13

the first fathers they are already reading

00:38:16

the letter of Clement of Rome the letters

00:38:19

of Ignatius of Antioch

00:38:20

they are extremely simple but

00:38:22

they are extremely rich already

00:38:24

theologically there are already a lot of

00:38:25

very beautiful things theological and even

00:38:30

pastoral very very beautiful things and they

00:38:32

are letters

00:38:33

so it is a simple language in which

00:38:36

we can center everything and then we

00:38:38

can read the ddh at the quay we can read

00:38:42

[Music]

00:38:44

the we can read irenée from lyon which is

00:38:47

not very complicated especially especially

00:38:52

book iii 2 2 against heresies

00:38:56

here you have to let yourself be guided a little

00:38:58

but frankly the apologetic fathers

00:39:02

they are simple are simple we can

00:39:06

read the ecclesiastical history 2nd of

00:39:08

Caesar and so yes he is a historian

00:39:10

of whom he is not one has not been

00:39:12

recognized as a father in the majestic sense of the

00:39:16

term but he has he has brought an

00:39:18

enormous element to the church because he has made

00:39:20

the entire history of the fathers he wrote

00:39:22

about his peers he wrote what he said

00:39:25

so if we have lost the texts of the fathers

00:39:27

we find elements of what was

00:39:29

lost in the ecclesiastical histories

00:39:31

and there too it is very simple since he

00:39:33

therefore tells it's a story intel did

00:39:36

this intel and it was in this

00:39:38

historical context which is what he said

00:39:40

it's very simple it's a story there

00:39:42

he tells the story so that of

00:39:44

Caesar and frankly it's is quite

00:39:49

simple too and then little by little

00:39:52

once we enter into this spirit of the

00:39:54

fathers because I think that it is

00:39:55

really a spirit that we must take,

00:39:57

well we can then look more

00:40:00

closely at treating them like

00:40:02

saint basil's treatise on the holy spirit we must

00:40:03

say everything that the treatise on the

00:40:04

holy spirit is really it is a

00:40:07

major treatise the first time the

00:40:09

first time we think of

00:40:11

the holy spirit as a third person

00:40:14

the trinity it is still then it is

00:40:16

who will prepare the council which will

00:40:19

determine that the holy spirit the

00:40:21

third person our unity is

00:40:22

still immense and it is not that

00:40:24

complicated quite simply because its

00:40:26

basis is not keep quoting the

00:40:27

scriptures and so the more we are

00:40:30

familiar with the fathers then we will become

00:40:31

familiar with the scriptures and the more we

00:40:33

are familiar with the scriptures the more we

00:40:35

will enter into the spirit of losing

00:40:37

there is a language which is common which is

00:40:38

the language of scriptures even if on this

00:40:41

language of scriptures was grafted the

00:40:43

more theological language which belongs

00:40:46

more to the Greek banks

00:40:47

we could say

00:40:48

philosophy but really start

00:40:51

at the beginning justin justin if we can

00:40:55

read justin one tells how he

00:40:57

converted how he met an

00:40:59

old man who had it then he found that

00:41:02

it was the true faith and converted

00:41:04

it's the beginning of his book is

00:41:06

amazed or what we

00:41:08

completely adhere to jestin because we see

00:41:10

how they convert and I do

00:41:13

n't know, I was struck by

00:41:14

Justin's conversion, it's really a very beautiful

00:41:17

story,

00:41:19

it doesn't rhyme if we make this question a little concrete,

00:41:22

I'm asking you the question,

00:41:25

I'm only one who is interested in the

00:41:29

holy father game had nothing and I would like to

00:41:32

start the first book that you

00:41:34

die that you give me advice right away

00:41:37

the pearls and father of the first

00:41:40

century there is a very small book there in

00:41:42

a collection which costs nothing

00:41:44

the losses of the 1st century

00:41:46

clement clement of rome ignace antioch

00:41:53

here are the apostolic disciples what we

00:41:57

call that the appetites so one more

00:42:02

question if the church does not correct

00:42:05

are we not also called to correct

00:42:07

the church otherwise where is our freedom

00:42:11

yes absolutely quite made me I

00:42:13

know even today I

00:42:15

know him a lot I I remember

00:42:17

very well a congress of the fraternity

00:42:19

where there were several lay people who were

00:42:21

after a named li of a bishop had gone to

00:42:24

see the bishop saying that it was

00:42:26

n't going well what a bishop had said,

00:42:27

so it's

00:42:31

not about being against it, it's about

00:42:34

saying no in terms of the coherence of

00:42:37

the life of the church, the coherence of

00:42:39

what we have always been taught there is

00:42:40

something that is not right then or

00:42:45

else we can also correct the priests

00:42:46

the presbyters to correct us these sets

00:42:49

that is to say that what is important

00:42:50

is that is why that it is very

00:42:51

important in the life of the church to

00:42:53

allow ourselves to be corrected also because we

00:42:56

all make mistakes and we all

00:42:59

say stupid things even though we have

00:43:01

learned a lot even though we have a lot.

00:43:02

can still say stupid things and

00:43:04

therefore and either our formulation is

00:43:07

not entirely accurate here is our

00:43:08

formula 1 the words that we used and

00:43:12

therefore that is important to allow ourselves to be

00:43:13

corrected and therefore let's be flexible

00:43:17

others correct us we can

00:43:18

correct others it's the only thing

00:43:21

that is important it's the consensus is

00:43:23

to say it's not it's not

00:43:25

settling scores between two

00:43:26

people

00:43:27

it's not about that at all it's a

00:43:28

together who says there is something

00:43:31

wrong we are going to go find the

00:43:33

person and we are going to tell them because we

00:43:35

are together because we are already two

00:43:36

three four five and that is not

00:43:39

the spirit of the 'church respects the spirit

00:43:42

of the church is then together saying to

00:43:43

a person by what you said no

00:43:46

come I didn't understand or it's not

00:43:48

the word that suits me but

00:43:50

something that doesn't sound right to this time

00:43:51

you have to be very free

00:43:52

I think that I think that a real pastor

00:43:55

or a real character a real

00:43:58

person of church if we are really

00:43:59

from the host church

00:44:00

of course what you say you are

00:44:03

right I j I was clumsy or I

00:44:06

used that word wrong, there's no problem, I

00:44:10

think we should remain very free

00:44:11

indeed, the question I think

00:44:14

needs to be clarified a little bit

00:44:16

because I think that it's not

00:44:18

really, let's say correct to say corrected

00:44:20

the church because we are the ponds

00:44:22

of the church we are the church

00:44:24

rather live apart consciousness of

00:44:26

the church let's say for me deepen

00:44:29

our own life in the church we do

00:44:32

not separate so the church of st mirren to

00:44:38

which I say corrected Thursday not corrected

00:44:39

the church is when I have a person

00:44:41

the church a few people

00:44:42

the church because the wording

00:44:44

was not exact but we do not correct

00:44:46

the guides that we are together in the

00:44:48

consensus of the church and then that

00:44:50

the church was going through the

00:44:53

centuries that it will be after us so I

00:44:57

think that it is more it is more of the

00:44:59

blunders of the moment the Madrilenian

00:45:03

the clumsiness of a message which was poorly

00:45:06

understood or poorly made and perceived or poorly

00:45:08

transmitted but but corrected

00:45:11

the church no that's for sure it's corrected

00:45:13

people or re-explained re-explain

00:45:18

something which has misunderstood

00:45:19

there yes I think

00:45:22

as we go along we will touch on this

00:45:25

notion of the church what is

00:45:26

the church which is who they are who are

00:45:29

the hands of the church and how do

00:45:31

we say we are also experiencing difficulties

00:45:34

in the church

00:45:35

there I think that there is still is

00:45:39

the consumer consensus is a guarantee

00:45:43

second ye is the truth in the spirit

00:45:46

of this correction

00:45:47

yes it is obvious that is sure and

00:45:51

d 'elsewhere that's why that's why

00:45:54

the ribs came together

00:45:55

it's because everyone had to

00:45:58

agree to now say

00:46:00

holy spirit it's the third person

00:46:01

of the trinity it is equal from father to

00:46:03

son we cannot invent it it is not

00:46:06

a person alone that he invents

00:46:07

it is something which is already in

00:46:10

the church and which at a given moment will

00:46:12

lead to a dogma

00:46:15

that's it which is that of the council so that

00:46:18

I think is very important it is short

00:46:21

this meaning if that is the guarantee why

00:46:23

because we do not have the holy spirit

00:46:24

alone we do not have the holy spirit

00:46:25

alone and that this spirit we have together

00:46:27

and that the more of us there are to

00:46:33

recognize ourselves in an affirmation that

00:46:37

it is dogmatic, even pastoral, the more of us there are, the

00:46:40

more

00:46:43

we are sure that it is the holy spirit who

00:46:44

acted in the hearts and and that this

00:46:49

setback

00:46:50

this consensus will lead us together

00:46:53

a little further

00:46:55

there I think for example of Grégoire

00:46:57

Palamas this consensus

00:46:59

here I do not see the mass bringing to

00:47:01

its incandescence

00:47:02

the whole question of the energies of the

00:47:05

energies creating a created ilaina much

00:47:08

fought for that and afterward it

00:47:10

imposed itself on the life of the church but as

00:47:11

something majestic and masterful

00:47:13

because because we were there the whole

00:47:16

church was behind him but there

00:47:18

were protesters in the church

00:47:21

there are protesters there are

00:47:22

disputes but at all times it is

00:47:25

not only in our time

00:47:26

of all times and therefore we must be

00:47:30

strong and above all in the holy spirit we must

00:47:32

be good in fact in humility and father

00:47:34

we also learn a lot

00:47:35

of humility that is very important very

00:47:39

important humility the fathers are very

00:47:42

humble most of the fathers are very

00:47:44

humble that he is really a true pastor

00:47:49

is very humble and that is why they

00:47:51

have they had a very fruitful pastoral action

00:47:53

because they were humble

00:47:56

origen he says it for example in his

00:47:58

writings says so if I was wrong

00:48:00

told me everything there you go don't take into account

00:48:05

what I do what while it is

00:48:07

a genius it is a genius of the bible I

00:48:10

think it is very important very very

00:48:12

important

00:48:15

thank you very much within dream for this

00:48:18

introductory course holy father

00:48:20

today which is going well traveled let's read

00:48:22

the perspectives in dawn meeting

00:48:27

l next year can I

00:48:30

just ask for the penultimate pages to

00:48:32

explain a little bit what will

00:48:35

happen after business no yet

00:48:44

so today we finish let's say

00:48:49

our first cycle of catechesis

00:48:53

introduction a shack to each subject

00:48:56

which is which is proposed to you no before

00:48:58

last please center go back

00:49:05

please a web page masters

00:49:08

slideshow that's very good thank you so

00:49:19

next Thursday we will meet again

00:49:21

on July 1st at 7 p.m. for for the

00:49:26

concluding conference a a little bit to

00:49:28

update everything that has been done

00:49:31

over the past few months we

00:49:35

have launched the catechesis

00:49:38

we are going to talk about the future too and this

00:49:42

last catechesis serenely in the presence of

00:49:45

all the teachers so this

00:49:47

conference will not be recorded 1

00:49:50

like like the others why

00:49:52

precisely to give you the

00:49:54

opportunity to ask the questions and

00:49:55

answers and to guarantee freedom

00:49:59

of expression

00:50:00

so the questions can be

00:50:01

absolutely different on methodology

00:50:04

you will be able to criticize let's say everything

00:50:06

that you don't like and we are at the

00:50:10

we could we can have this

00:50:13

live dialogue

00:50:14

so we must not be afraid that after it

00:50:16

would be recorded there are people who

00:50:18

always hesitate to ask questions

00:50:21

to express themselves so here I emphasize that

00:50:25

this conference will not be recorded

00:50:27

and it will not be no longer view on

00:50:31

youtube so tried to find the

00:50:33

time if you are interested in

00:50:36

joining us next Thursday at 7 p.m. so

00:50:39

that would be the concluding conference after that

00:50:42

we stop for the summer vacation period

00:50:45

and God willing we will meet again at

00:50:48

from September to

00:50:50

continue our catechesis and our

00:50:54

meetings which will take place not

00:50:56

only by zoom but also in

00:50:57

person so those who live in

00:50:59

the Paris region

00:51:00

will be able to come and we will also be able

00:51:05

to continue our face to

00:51:08

face meetings which will always be

00:51:10

accompanied by zoom so a ca also

00:51:13

this information that I would like to

00:51:15

announce to you today you will

00:51:19

receive more information concerning

00:51:24

the organization concerning the future of

00:51:26

catechesis

00:51:27

we will assert if you can also past

00:51:29

last page s 'please so

00:51:34

we also offer you if you want to

00:51:36

participate they have in the golden development

00:51:40

of catechesis we have many projects

00:51:43

and we are going to try with the help of God

00:51:44

with your support to

00:51:46

realize them so there is the

00:51:50

link on one and the aso which is on

00:51:56

the vicaria site so it would also

00:51:58

perhaps be an opportunity to visit the

00:52:00

new career site and

00:52:03

through this application you can

00:52:04

send your donations which are deducted

00:52:08

so there are tax deductions of

00:52:11

course hours and for those who are

00:52:14

used to divisions in the other form of

00:52:17

dissipation shares you can also send

00:52:19

the failure still marked on the

00:52:22

rock band hero bar that it is for the

00:52:24

catechesis so that's the reason I think it's not

00:52:27

worth explaining why there are

00:52:28

some points that are already presented

00:52:32

but it's through your support we can

00:52:34

also facilitate the development of

00:52:37

catechesis

00:52:39

that's it so we thank you for bringing

00:52:42

this forward so he I will check again

00:52:47

perhaps there is a final question

00:52:51

a look of course the question in

00:52:54

response will be able to receive a

00:52:57

backup pdf him you can receive

00:53:00

I will send words point to

00:53:04

another communication team so that

00:53:07

you can then receive this

00:53:11

document I thank him from my heart

00:53:15

Sandrine and each and everyone who is

00:53:18

who we found the time and who is

00:53:20

interested in the theology of the life of

00:53:22

the church of catechesis who want to

00:53:25

progress in the faith who need

00:53:27

water that we meet together and

00:53:31

talk about the life of our

00:53:34

church that means our own

00:53:37

ecclesial life our own

00:53:39

spiritual life and have the courage to

00:53:42

continue I think it is

00:53:46

something that will bear fruit for you

00:53:50

for us for the organizers for

00:53:52

those who are trying to

00:53:56

organize this catechesis thank you

00:53:59

very much and see you very soon

00:54:02

next Thursday we can read the final prayer

00:54:09

also it is worthy in truth

00:54:18

the rock the town hall we make a microphone

00:54:22

ring in the time

00:54:29

I traveled the father serge to what you

00:54:32

can come to the aid for a long time

00:54:38

I heard that the chocolate taken in the

00:54:40

end please the opposition intends to

00:54:45

invite two clubs

00:54:54

Sandrine do not wait you must l

00:54:56

like your microphone etc and everything is masked

00:55:04

liked to listen we do not hear game

00:55:09

does not have texts in French

00:55:11

of increase of pentecost but

00:55:14

wait for the solution let's encourage all

00:55:16

together our operation and culture have

00:55:20

others have another session our father

00:55:25

who is in heaven their names

00:55:27

hallowed be your kingdom come

00:55:29

your will be done on earth

00:55:32

as it is in heaven in our today our

00:55:35

bread below forgive you our

00:55:37

trespasses as we also forgive

00:55:39

those who trespass against us and do

00:55:41

not let us enter into temptation but

00:55:44

deliver a name from the evil one amen thank you

00:55:48

very much thank you thank you all

Description:

Cycle de catéchèse pour adultes Les Pères de l'Église et leurs préoccupations pastorales par Sandrine Caneri séance 2 donnée le 24 juin 2021

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