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Subtitles
Russian
00:00:10
[music]00:00:24
[music]00:00:34
Good evening everyone in Moscow 21 hours 500:00:37
minutes this is Alexey Venediktov00:00:39
Pastukhovsky Thursdays Vladimir Borisovich00:00:41
Pastukhov Vladimir Borisovich Good evening00:00:43
Good evening I want to thank our00:00:47
viewers You know that Evgeniy Roizman,00:00:49
in addition to the fact that his criminal00:00:51
trial is ongoing, it will last on May 10 he was00:00:54
awarded a00:00:56
fine of more than00:00:58
half a million rubles along with him for the fact that the police00:01:01
worked on a day off and the00:01:04
police needed to reimburse this money, we00:01:06
announced a collection thanks to Dmitry Koz A and00:01:09
Within two hours we collected all the money00:01:11
for the fine I know that many of you00:01:13
took part in this, such00:01:15
donations came and 100 rubles and 1,000 rubles each, well, in00:01:19
general, in 2 hours we collected half a million For the00:01:22
fine for Evgeniy Roizman and for him00:01:25
and for those whom the police call00:01:28
counterfeiters Thank you very much, now00:01:30
you can donate alive nail in the00:01:33
upper left-right corner you can switch00:01:36
to us and this is all yes And I00:01:40
understand correctly from your message that we00:01:43
have transferred00:01:45
the police in Russia to the ancient Russian00:01:48
feeding system Yes,00:01:50
this is not the first case in fact, but00:01:53
here somehow it’s absolutely yes Olga00:01:56
questions you can ask and here is one of the00:01:58
questions, as always for warming up,00:02:00
Ksyusha from Kiev asks you what00:02:04
can you say about the telephone conversation between00:02:06
Zelensky and the chairman of the People's Republic of China, in general, what00:02:10
matters is the very fact of the conversation and00:02:13
whether there was something essential Vladimir Boris00:02:16
for longer can you think it to me It seems00:02:18
that Mr. C has such a tonnage that00:02:23
even if he unfolds just in00:02:25
the living room, it will already matter00:02:28
because he will demolish all the00:02:31
china cabinets, bookcases, everything00:02:34
else, naturally, this matters,00:02:37
naturally, in00:02:39
general, the very pause that was between00:02:42
the conversation and the conversations in Kiev was00:02:45
prolonged and it was reminiscent of a theatrical one,00:02:48
and the fact that this conversation took place suggests00:02:51
that00:02:53
his blue can be avoided, his00:02:56
blue can be avoided,00:02:57
I expected from this conversation00:03:00
Well, something radical No, they don’t expect00:03:04
because, in principle,00:03:07
[music]00:03:08
that are happening today between Russia00:03:11
and Ukraine, he didn’t00:03:15
he resolved it did not resolve it using the methods of00:03:18
such diplomacy of compromises. At the00:03:20
moment,00:03:22
if it had theoretically been00:03:25
resolved by the methods of diplomacy00:03:27
of compromises, then frankly speaking,00:03:31
there would still be people who could cope with it.00:03:34
Secondly, I’m not sure that00:03:36
Mr. Xi’s goal is to really00:03:39
resolve this conflict that is, the goal of00:03:42
Mr. Russia is00:03:44
to maintain the fire in the fireplace At what00:03:48
level so that on the one hand the room does00:03:50
not freeze, it is warm on the other hand00:03:53
so that the knowledge does not burn00:03:55
Well, in fact, he is probably not00:03:58
alone in his attitude,00:03:59
this is possible and was the purpose of the conversation and we00:04:03
see in fact, where is the only00:04:05
positive way out, that is, it is clear that00:04:08
China is ready to put pressure on Putin so that00:04:11
his emotions don’t get too high, he does00:04:15
n’t pull something00:04:18
inappropriate00:04:20
But for the rest, I don’t expect any00:04:23
results from this kind yet, all six of00:04:26
Kiev Thank you for the question, I remind you that00:04:28
at the beginning of each00:04:30
broadcast with Vladimir Borisovich, I look at00:04:32
those questions that were sent00:04:34
directly 10 minutes before the broadcast,00:04:36
choosing one of them for our00:04:39
warm-up. But immediately during00:04:41
your answer, the person with Nick Dmitry,00:04:45
apparently Dmitry formulates00:04:48
the question very briefly, but I don’t I can’t ask him to blow the00:04:50
tirers00:04:52
Well, it’s clear that you can clarify the question: do00:04:55
you see in this interview something00:04:58
that deserves attention or is there only00:05:02
something there that can be hyped around Kasparov00:05:05
or around what Kozlov is talking about or is there00:05:07
something of substance there for you00:05:09
I found something there, I wrote about it00:05:12
today in my Telegram channel, I00:05:14
’ll try to explain00:05:15
I didn’t understand,00:05:17
okay, I’ll first say the following that00:05:20
I generally don’t like00:05:25
on both sides,00:05:28
it’s not the right time, I need a00:05:31
showdown in place and I had a paragraph00:05:40
with the words that in relation to00:05:43
assessing the00:05:46
beauty of the beauty of00:05:52
the interview, I take00:05:56
Article 51 of the Constitution of the Russian00:05:58
Federation, an amendment to the US Constitution, so as00:06:02
not to testify against oneself00:06:05
Because everyone who shoots now00:06:08
This dispute will be beaten by both sides00:06:12
at the same time from above, they will also cover it with stones so00:06:15
that the sky is not visible00:06:18
in the interview00:06:20
brothers on Article 51 of the Constitution in any case00:06:23
is asked by someone or in a stream by someone00:06:26
there is an idiotic question Article 51, of course,00:06:42
it is necessary to share a meaningful dispute and emotions,00:06:45
and unfortunately, on both sides, that00:06:50
is, Clearly, there is an interview in this00:06:52
interview, everyone there discarded what no one cares about00:06:54
it was like in such00:07:00
good pop performances, that is, the second00:07:02
part was, of course, some kind of00:07:04
rock band, and in the first part there was00:07:08
some kind of folklore. Let it be for00:07:10
warming up, so it turned out that in00:07:13
fact the interview00:07:14
included a lot of things and it00:07:16
was interesting listen to it all00:07:19
cut off Well, what remains is this part where00:07:22
he showed his teeth and seemed to show his teeth,00:07:27
bared his teeth, and00:07:30
emotionally responded to his opponent,00:07:33
I don’t think he’s right, but on the other hand it’s00:07:36
clear why. Because in general,00:07:37
his opponents also tormented him a lot all00:07:42
this time and he got boiled00:07:46
So, in terms of these emotional00:07:48
claims, I must say that00:07:52
apparently he did not say anything new about00:07:53
everything that he said. People spoke one way or another,00:07:56
but no one brought the00:07:58
personal into the public because00:08:01
his displacement was not enough and00:08:05
therefore, like the second, there is such a tic00:08:08
the problem of00:08:10
the opponent who said they are not.00:08:13
For all that, they are in an00:08:14
equal position with him after a person is free00:08:16
to a person is not Free,00:08:19
this is such a red line00:08:22
that many people with a similar00:08:26
claim did not cross, that is,00:08:28
right wrong I don’t presume to judge00:08:31
Well, here we are we see that this Red Line00:08:34
has been translated and everything that two people thought there in their00:08:39
minds is00:08:40
zero in the language, it has now become a subject,00:08:46
you say this is personal, in my opinion, he was talking00:08:48
about the political, as it were, part And even00:08:52
when he called people Alexei Navalny00:08:54
or Yashin who are sitting in in prison, he00:08:57
still said no political00:08:58
decisions, they are naturally talking about00:09:01
political decisions but with a significant00:09:04
share of the personal emotional component.00:09:06
Well, I must say that Alexey00:09:09
Navalny does not restrain himself, we see00:09:12
his statements, they still still have the00:09:13
same great shade of personal00:09:17
attitude and00:09:19
what he or his team does It’s hard to say It’s00:09:22
very difficult for me to00:09:26
assess now How communication takes place00:09:28
between Alexei Navalny’s headquarters Alexei00:09:32
Navalny to what extent Alexey00:09:33
Navalny is really immersed in all the details00:09:36
of what the headquarters is doing I think that it still00:09:38
works00:09:39
quite autonomously, but we00:09:42
see that the headquarters there is quite a lot of00:09:46
time to concentrate00:09:48
efforts now on disagreeing with00:09:53
other organizational groups rather than00:09:55
disagreeing,00:09:58
but still a lot of time00:10:00
is spent on sorting out the points00:10:04
on and in relations with00:10:07
those who were supposed to be partners but on00:10:10
essentially they are competitors00:10:12
and that’s why00:10:14
I call this personal, let’s say,00:10:17
because there is a00:10:20
clarification going on with that foreigner, there is a00:10:26
World Figure Skating Championship competition there, there is a figure skating championship00:10:28
happening around the city now, too, show your teeth,00:10:35
don’t show me, I ask you to analyze for you,00:10:38
We are not dismantling it,00:10:39
so if it everything, as it were, remove the new one,00:10:43
as if my name is of course, but this is your00:10:46
provocative essence If everything is removed,00:10:48
I was written down there one question that00:10:50
seemed to me to be beyond the scope of a-and the topic,00:10:53
this question is very interesting to me and00:10:56
it boils down to the fact that it is put forward Well,00:11:00
something in passing an abandoned phrase that00:11:03
contains two theses and I must say00:11:08
that I am not sure that I am00:11:12
absolutely right in these theses, but I00:11:16
am sure that they should be00:11:18
discussed because I am not I was not00:11:22
already I was already in exile in 2011 201200:11:26
year, accordingly, was observed by everyone.00:11:30
All the processes were very directly00:11:32
through the00:11:34
picture on TV. And00:11:37
soon he claims that00:11:41
in December00:11:45
200000:11:46
11,00:11:50
in the process of those speeches that00:11:54
took place alternating in Moscow, which we00:11:56
combine under the common name00:11:59
Bolotnaya revolution, Bolotnaya uprising, and00:12:02
so on, very conventionally, there was a moment00:12:05
that these speeches They were00:12:09
close to the point at which the Peace process00:12:13
turns violent00:12:16
and this is a very important moment because in00:12:18
essence it is described by the formula at that00:12:21
moment as Kasparov says Putin00:12:25
who has not yet arrived Medvedev has already left there was00:12:28
some hesitation at the00:12:32
top00:12:37
demonstrated After some time00:12:41
when people were really irritated and that00:12:44
at that moment this is what Lenin00:12:48
called the top can’t and at the same time there was00:12:53
what is called a little higher usually as00:12:56
Lenin called it the activity was00:12:59
a little higher usually because it00:13:01
was Well, perhaps the most massive00:13:03
action for the entire Putin era For00:13:06
all that, they are like a00:13:08
camel city, they stand out so much against the00:13:11
background of what was before 2011,00:13:14
especially what happened after the mother-in-law of the00:13:16
eleventh year, that is, we can00:13:17
say that this is Lenin’s formula in general,00:13:20
all three components of Lenin’s00:13:23
definition of revolutionary situations they00:13:25
worked,00:13:28
Kasper essentially talks about this00:13:31
because he describes it, he doesn’t call it00:13:35
such clever words, he says that there00:13:37
were absolutely hesitations, people were00:13:39
ready. What he says is in three00:13:42
components, we see a country that is00:13:45
emerging from the crisis of 8-9, which was a00:13:48
global crisis there is a wonderful Oxford00:13:51
work that says that in general00:13:53
this whole movement of angry citizens in Moscow00:13:55
was like this. The echo of the world crisis, the00:13:59
second we see how Lenin wrote00:14:02
activity a little higher than usual, but it is00:14:04
obvious And the third, here, finally,00:14:08
this was talked about less before only with00:14:09
steam, this I just said that there was a00:14:12
clear understanding of confusion,00:14:15
that is, all three elements were e further to00:14:19
the dispute, as if for the first time formulating the thesis00:14:21
that if this crowd had gone to the00:14:27
Kremlin or to the center of the election commission,00:14:30
then everything could have been different.00:14:32
I will now return to this thesis00:14:35
because it’s interesting on several planes at once,00:14:38
the first is the thesis, it’s very important00:14:41
to record this, it00:14:43
has nothing to do with Navalny, I have no one, that00:14:45
is, Kasparov records that there was an00:14:48
opportunity to carry the Revolution, this00:14:50
opportunity was not realized and this is00:14:54
bad. This is very important and this is00:14:57
bad because that if this were00:14:59
implemented, then everything that00:15:02
was possible today may not be possible, this is a very00:15:05
interesting moment because here we are00:15:07
seeing a change in such a very powerful00:15:10
paradigm, this is a very powerful paradigm00:15:13
that existed throughout the entire00:15:15
Putin period, there was such a phrase00:15:17
then anything just if there was no war,00:15:20
but there was such a faction of the post-Soviet00:15:24
intelligentsia, anything if only there would00:15:26
be no Revolution00:15:28
means that everything is only in velvet00:15:32
gloves. That is, if the revolution is00:15:35
like the Czech Republic, let’s join hands, friends,00:15:39
let’s go out into the street there00:15:41
was such a conviction that a million will take to the00:15:44
street and00:15:52
dissolve at home, and there was such a00:15:56
conviction that violent00:15:58
protest is an absolute evil,00:16:00
so it’s as if no one ever00:16:03
asked the assessment whether it’s bad that it didn’t00:16:05
take place, it was also useful, it’s good that00:16:06
it didn’t happen,00:16:08
and what Kaspar did in the interview, I00:16:12
wonder why - I didn’t notice that00:16:14
everyone was so carried away by that part, which is why00:16:16
I’m talking to you about this00:16:19
topic; we00:16:20
ourselves are ready; this is a00:16:24
much more important point. That is,00:16:26
in essence, I00:16:28
also can’t say that Newton’s Binom is00:16:33
publicly voiced that00:16:37
the revolution is not moved00:16:42
into the 2011 phase, this is bad,00:16:47
that is, before that everyone was saying something00:16:50
good because we don’t need a revolution,00:16:52
that we are ready with carnations,00:16:56
ribbons and wreaths in the end,00:17:00
but peacefully, that is, we stand up and00:17:03
demonstrate our determination They see00:17:05
how much we decisively say oh00:17:08
my God, as if we were wrong all these years,00:17:11
put the machine guns,00:17:13
shields and masks on the ground and leave00:17:17
Now this is the second Now these are connected00:17:19
that he sees a real opportunity then00:17:21
that then there was such a moment00:17:25
and the second part and the second part it00:17:27
interesting because I can’t go on here00:17:31
because I don’t remember this,00:17:33
that is, I can only rely on00:17:36
what is said, what he says, that at that00:17:39
moment when the government was shaking, that00:17:41
people like this already came to the rally.00:17:48
layer Sobchak Kudrin,00:17:52
who seems to belong to two worlds,00:17:54
that is, whom it00:17:57
would be strange to see there before at the00:18:00
rally.00:18:01
And here I must say in parentheses, in00:18:05
fact, many did not know that in a closed chat of00:18:11
supporters of the rally they voted on who00:18:15
should speak at the rally, people did not they themselves00:18:18
came there was a certain list00:18:20
there was a vote and Sobchak and Kudrin and00:18:27
Kasparov who spoke there were included in the00:18:30
thirty and Venediktov and Gorbachev00:18:35
I have this paper you know how I like00:18:37
to publish papers00:18:39
you know how I like00:18:48
it it’s important to do this for me not as a00:18:50
person who00:18:52
wants to participate argue Who is the00:18:54
Main Enemy of Putin Let them all have a00:18:58
common monument to capitalism built in battles00:19:00
But I’m interested because00:19:04
I personally, as a theorist, consider 2011-2012 a00:19:11
turning point after00:19:13
Communist history00:19:16
in this I would say so I don’t have00:19:20
any empirical data I observed00:19:24
this is from the point of view of a theorist, this is the00:19:27
point00:19:28
of physics, this is the point that should be, and then00:19:32
even more in evolution.00:19:36
Lost pig evolution,00:19:38
you understand everything that happened after00:19:40
2011, so it absolutely fit into the00:19:45
concept of post-revolutionary reaction,00:19:47
it’s like if the revolution doesn’t take place,00:19:50
then it’s always a tough00:19:53
counter-revolution is coming, turning into a reaction,00:19:55
passing, the new president00:19:58
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin came in 1912,00:20:00
I’ll remind you of00:20:03
the question in a different,00:20:05
simpler way For a wider audience00:20:09
If you don’t score, it’s scored for you00:20:12
too, Vladimir Vladimirovich said00:20:14
if a fight is inevitable Strike first00:20:17
Therefore, for me there was such a00:20:20
moment that everything that happened after00:20:23
2011 fit into the picture of what00:20:26
usually happens if a revolution00:20:30
breaks down and does not reach a00:20:35
rapid, uncontrollable response in00:20:40
two senses of the word, which usually ends up00:20:42
in war, but as a practice, I have not00:20:46
seen this kind of confirmation00:20:48
Because it’s always like that this moment of00:20:51
transition from a peaceful protest to a00:20:54
relative stage, no matter how it was not00:20:56
discussed, was such a shameful moment00:20:58
due to the fact that there was a consensus of00:21:00
rejection of the violent nature of the00:21:03
Revolution. It was as if it was not customary to talk about this.00:21:05
For me, this is a very important00:21:08
point; secondly, there is a rather00:21:12
important thesis that it00:21:16
was Navalny who, with the power of his00:21:18
authority, could push these people to do the00:21:24
unreasonable00:21:27
and the reasonable unreasonably unreasonably Yes,00:21:31
as if00:21:33
now We are ready Let's go back00:21:35
it's called00:21:37
either go to the Kremlin or go to00:21:41
the Blockade the center of the electoral commission, so he could00:21:44
push there but as Kasparov thinks and that's me00:21:48
I won’t check in any way because I00:21:50
wasn’t a witness, I didn’t read anything,00:21:52
Navalny spoke at a meeting that00:21:55
essentially brought down this ardor,00:22:00
people who were there already wrote to me in the comments, it00:22:02
seems like there was nothing there. No, there is00:22:05
a recording, I need to watch00:22:07
the introduction of everyone at this rally 2400:22:11
December of the eleventh year,00:22:14
such research interest Yes, it is necessary to00:22:17
reconsider and what supposedly This was the00:22:20
turning point when00:22:26
he says he says that00:22:29
never00:22:36
Well, here is everything that now could have been00:22:40
avoided and here it is very important00:22:42
for understanding That is, until00:22:44
this war happened 11 years later,00:22:51
no one disputed the correctness of Navalny’s action because everyone understood that00:22:56
it would have been an adventure,00:22:59
everyone understands it would have been an adventure that00:23:02
would have led to bloodshed. And since there was a00:23:05
concept of non-acceptance of bloodshed, the fact00:23:09
that Navalny stopped the crowd and did not00:23:12
lead it into a direct collision, people00:23:16
were obviously there could be dozens00:23:18
maybe hundreds of people, let’s say,00:23:22
physically00:23:25
crippled at least if it came00:23:28
to such an uncontrollable fight it was00:23:31
absolutely always in Plus That is, the fact that00:23:34
Kasparov puts Alexei Navalny in00:23:37
December of the eleventh year In minus you00:23:39
put in plus there is no00:23:42
public opinion today00:23:45
put this as a plus And today, against the backdrop of00:23:48
tens of thousands killed, because00:23:51
completely new logic arises, I am00:23:54
now recording a birth,00:24:01
the following question is issued, maybe00:24:03
these 100 people you know, the Ukrainians would say the00:24:06
Heavenly Hundred00:24:08
Or maybe these 100 people who would have00:24:11
died in 2011 would have00:24:13
prevented those tens of thousands00:24:17
who are dying today, this question00:24:20
could not have arisen not at 16, not 18,00:24:23
I’m 20,00:24:25
because then it was clear that00:24:28
sacrifice was unacceptable. But today, when a torrent of00:24:32
blood pours out, the question arises:00:24:34
Maybe it’s Maybe big casualties00:24:37
could have been prevented by small sacrifices,00:24:39
and here’s the story this film that you00:24:41
want to00:24:42
review, it’s as if it’s being00:24:44
replayed now, and other assessments are00:24:49
what Cosmon provokes, he provokes00:24:51
such a revision, in fact, a reassessment, he doesn’t provoke a revision,00:24:55
provokes a00:24:58
reassessment, and everything that seemed00:25:02
for 12 years seemed with a plus sign.00:25:06
He suggests looking at it with00:25:08
signs Why Because he now00:25:11
says that yes, maybe it was the price of00:25:13
the issue, maybe it was the price of the issue00:25:18
Well, what is the point of this today? Well, that00:25:21
is, how historical are these historical00:25:23
events? Before that, there was standing, a00:25:25
historical event, by the way, there was standing,00:25:29
I want to say on Occupy on Chistye00:25:33
Prudy against which, by the way, people did not00:25:36
disperse but set up tents and who00:25:38
opposed this00:25:40
against standing there on Occupy,00:25:43
he believed that this would not work either, even00:25:46
such an opinion Maidan00:25:48
unarmed00:25:51
it was later. To be00:25:54
honest, here I am with him Why Because00:26:00
I brought up on a classical attitude on the00:26:05
classical theory of revolution,00:26:40
but Revolutions arise on their own e How00:26:43
earthquakes arise, threats00:26:47
are a process that cannot be accelerated and one00:26:50
cannot notice that it is connected with the00:26:52
movement of how many millions of seemingly00:26:57
related wars that it is00:27:00
almost impossible to control them by any00:27:02
Propaganda Revolutionary in fact00:27:03
especially never anything this is the first And the second00:27:06
what exactly because this is an00:27:09
objective phenomenon It is always tied to00:27:13
certain historical points Leni00:27:15
called them revolutionary situations and Well,00:27:20
for the British there is such a wonderful00:27:23
word to denote this kind of thing, that00:27:25
is, the moment00:27:26
only concerns the Revolution, most importantly,00:27:29
that is00:27:32
life in general The normal life of the00:27:35
political socio-economic of00:27:36
any society is always the movement of a00:27:39
train along such powerful mornings they00:27:42
go and in fact for decades there are00:27:45
no forks, we in many ways00:27:48
move here along the channel that is given by the00:27:51
history of all the previous ones00:27:54
and then finally appears sometimes a00:27:56
section appears when00:27:58
several appear historical scenarios, these are00:28:01
rare such points and at these rare00:28:03
points the opportunity to choose appears there00:28:06
at these points there is a point when00:28:10
a revolution is possible00:28:12
and if a decision is possible at that second, then the00:28:17
next morning it happens that it is no longer00:28:19
possible. Everything is meaningless and here00:28:21
Kaspar talks about it the interview says directly00:28:24
because he says that the next00:28:27
day the authorities came to their senses, they brought the Ural00:28:31
I am trying to quote, they brought the Ural00:28:34
carriage plant in February, it changed I don’t know00:28:37
what00:28:38
I didn’t follow this situation, the00:28:42
carriage of the factory We will not give up our president,00:28:44
this was an election campaign already Yes, in00:28:47
any case, in any case here he00:28:49
records the truth is not true that there was a moment of00:28:52
hesitation Well, do you remember this is00:28:55
some famous film or me she he is comical00:28:58
but there Lenin speaks to someone it00:29:01
then played out in all the Soviet ranks00:29:03
what he says00:29:06
24 she 26 posts there and 2500:29:13
Yes And so he then broke his own chain, he00:29:18
broke his comrades-in-arms, no one believed it, in00:29:22
fact, the situation was very much when I listened to00:29:25
Kasparova, I remembered everything, but it was also a00:29:28
situation absolutely00:29:30
repeated00:29:31
a hundred years ago, that is, What is the question00:29:34
asked here Vladimir Borisovich00:29:36
Here Yes And what is the point of discussing now00:29:38
what happened why is this important for you00:29:41
because I naturally observe00:29:44
wonderfully, we began the origins of the birth of a00:29:49
new one, which was completely lost00:29:53
before this war, there was no approval of00:30:00
the Revolution as a violent method of00:30:04
changing power and regime and the beginning of an apology for a00:30:08
new Revolution which the intelligentsia is actually00:30:22
now observing an apology00:30:25
for the revolutionary violence00:30:30
and I think that this is important because when a00:30:35
new Revolutionary situation arises,00:30:38
we always have a fork,00:30:41
one fork, look, we had00:30:44
three revolutionary situations over the00:30:46
decades00:30:47
in the eleventh year in Moscow, in the00:30:53
13th and 14th years in Kiev, and in the twentieth00:30:57
year in Minsk00:31:00
two situations00:31:03
ended in00:31:04
nothing and severe with the onset of the Passionate00:31:09
reaction both in Moscow and Minsk and in00:31:14
sick cases, the key paradigm of the00:31:18
middle class intelligentsia in relations of00:31:21
evolution was an00:31:24
apology for peaceful protest00:31:27
one situation00:31:29
one situation ended Victory of the00:31:32
Revolution where paratism prevailed in the00:31:36
rapid transition from peaceful to them00:31:40
peaceful protest00:31:41
Maidan Maidan absolutely So I think that00:31:46
what is happening now and it will come back to haunt you,00:31:49
maybe now, maybe in a year,00:31:51
maybe in 10 years, maybe in00:31:53
15 years, you know nothing in a00:31:56
country like Russia, but when the00:32:01
next thing happens, a revolutionary situation00:32:04
will happen, then there00:32:08
will no longer be a paradigm of peaceful protest, but00:32:11
we are now seeing the beginning of a movement towards a new paradigm00:32:14
in this interview with Kasparov00:32:17
Dudyu and in a reassessment00:32:20
he talks about the events of Kaspar’s 11th year, but00:32:25
in his head he is by no means alone,00:32:28
look, let us for now because we are so00:32:32
little they dragged on with Kasparov Yes,00:32:35
although this is an important story00:32:36
[music]00:32:37
but if you transform how it is00:32:41
now perceived, not that there was an00:32:43
essence on it,00:32:45
it is perceived that this was an attack by00:32:48
Navalny’s personal Khodorkovsky,00:32:51
now ah Kasparov personally00:32:54
attacks Navalny and Yashin Well,00:32:57
for everyone who was Inside there, yes At this00:32:59
time And why is this But he’s smart, he00:33:04
may be00:33:06
wrong, let’s say so But he’s smart and he00:33:10
understands what he’s saying and he accurately00:33:12
calculates the next move, that is, the00:33:14
reaction of00:33:16
part of the00:33:17
anti-war position of the majority a00:33:19
significant part that cannot00:33:22
perceive it as far as the fact that00:33:24
Alexey Navalny or Yashin, who was00:33:27
his comrade in Solidarity and they were00:33:31
a screen,00:33:35
listen Well, here you are asking a question00:33:38
that is far beyond my00:33:42
competence because Article 51 of00:33:44
the Constitution Well, I can explain why I00:33:47
I take it because one of the principles00:33:49
by which I am guided in life is00:33:52
such a very dense file between00:33:58
political philosophy and political00:34:01
activity, so I’m such a bad00:34:04
person, but yes,00:34:06
yes, political activity is00:34:10
something that I don’t do and00:34:13
maybe I should have. Well, I don’t know how to do it not00:34:16
mine, I’m a bad practitioner I already00:34:20
told you your opinion once, I’m asking them, it’s not00:34:23
like they went and strangled me,00:34:25
I don’t know the motivation,00:34:28
there’s no And what are the consequences, wait,00:34:31
wait, I won’t let you out,00:34:36
I won’t talk about motivation, you won’t00:34:39
tell me about the consequences,00:34:41
Well, the consequences are very simple, we We00:34:44
are all spectators of a certain theater.00:34:48
Unfortunately, in my anatomical opinion,00:34:52
we understand that in this theater the corpses00:34:56
began to move and began to quarrel with00:34:58
each other. It’s difficult to say why00:35:01
this is happening, but I can definitely say00:35:05
that this is unlikely to help;00:35:10
in fact,00:35:12
it seems that after all this struggle for00:35:16
leadership within the migration00:35:19
anti-war opposition That's how I would say00:35:21
that we are watching in the theater. That there is00:35:25
some kind of movement there00:35:27
without being in the theater itself, thank God00:35:30
it is difficult to say00:35:33
what00:35:35
motives there are that make people00:35:41
squirm so actively.00:35:47
I have my own opinion. You have yours.00:35:49
opinion is the same story00:35:53
that the00:35:54
whole thing.00:35:58
You can’t blame anyone here because,00:36:01
in fact, I’m00:36:08
sharing with him, and what they did with him00:36:11
seemed to look like a step back, just00:36:14
like the personal attacks for00:36:17
which they now scold him. I can only00:36:20
say that in this whole situation I I00:36:22
’m trying to understand where the share of criticism of00:36:25
the regime is and where the share of criticism of each00:36:28
other is. I can say that the share of00:36:31
criticism of each other is growing and the share of00:36:34
criticism of the regime is falling. Because people are00:36:37
more busy with each other. Oh my00:36:44
God00:36:45
[applause]00:36:46
for the peak if anything peak, don’t00:36:49
worry, there is a wonderful caricature00:36:53
at all. Well, since I’m also after00:36:57
the operation, we will now remember my00:37:00
favorite tourists, I’m looking for a book,00:37:03
illustrated by him alone. We have such a00:37:06
caricature; cream is watching the00:37:10
discussion of the three oppositions and the00:37:13
Kremlin wall and many, many00:37:17
stormtroopers, stairs and there everyone is there,00:37:21
Navalny Kshmarovsky is anyone there,00:37:24
so they all climb the stairs onto the00:37:27
Kremlin wall, but they don’t share Who pours00:37:30
burning tar on each other, who hits each other on the00:37:33
head and Putin is standing on top,00:37:35
smiling But it’s all watching Well,00:37:38
Sorry, but he00:37:41
always knows how to kill all kinds of things for me I want to00:37:45
write because he, with the stroke of a00:37:47
pen, does in a second everything that I00:37:50
need to explain for an hour and a half. I will00:37:52
definitely give him00:37:54
Vladimir’s speech, but still, Kasparov’s thesis00:37:57
that everything that happened after the00:37:58
twelfth year, all political00:38:00
opposition activity in Russia00:38:03
was an imitation and this00:38:07
thesis is useless. You agree00:38:10
to the extent that, as Tyutchev wrote,00:38:14
that00:38:16
the thought voiced by her is difficult to understand,00:38:21
I must say that yes, on the one hand, the00:38:28
activities that took place in00:38:31
Russia after the revolution00:38:33
was defeated, they00:38:36
took place within that framework and in that the extent00:38:40
to which the regime considered it possible to00:38:43
allow it. This seems to be true and here00:38:46
maybe Cosmona another question is that00:38:49
all this does not take the subject into development,00:38:51
you know, this is a view from above00:38:54
2020 2023, so we seem to take the00:38:59
final result, but in reality by00:39:02
20-23 It was necessary to Approach There was00:39:07
such a dialectical struggle, that is, on the00:39:10
one hand, people tried, no one00:39:12
knew in which direction the people would develop, they00:39:15
tried to their teeth, the00:39:17
authorities also tried them to their teeth.00:39:22
Well, it so happened that the authorities won all this, if00:39:26
they had left now, they would have had00:39:30
completely different assessments then there is00:39:33
after the fact from the heights here is the knowledge of00:39:36
today You can say so, but00:39:39
when it all happened this knowledge of00:39:41
today was not understood,00:39:42
so we with what has been said is a lie from the00:39:46
heights of today when good00:39:50
thoughts come to fears You can say this and00:39:52
so, but in the sixteenth year being00:39:55
inside no one understood where these boundaries were,00:39:58
no one understood are you a puppet or are you the00:40:01
director of a puppet theater,00:40:04
it reminds me of Pastukhov’s Thursday00:40:07
Vladimir Borisovich Pastukhov And you know,00:40:10
when I communicate with different people, she is00:40:13
always people who can influence00:40:16
Decision-making not only in our00:40:18
country, I ask all the time Well, how can we00:40:20
get out of this? First question: we sit down00:40:26
and I00:40:28
always see one hundred percent some kind of00:40:32
confusion on the part of the interlocutor because00:40:35
what to do today everyone imagines00:40:38
or knows or gives orders, then what00:40:42
will happen the day after tomorrow Yes, there is a beautiful00:40:45
Russia of the future, a terrible Russia of the future,00:40:47
the absence of Russia in the future is also00:40:50
represents But how to move00:40:54
from today00:40:56
to the day after tomorrow to tomorrow no one knows00:41:02
Well, I have one thesis that00:41:08
I don’t know,00:41:12
I can say the conditions without which00:41:15
the transition is impossible,00:41:17
there are two00:41:20
interchangeable ways, well, quality in a country like00:41:23
Russia,00:41:25
one of them is when a small sect00:41:30
takes over the government00:41:33
establishes its new dictatorship00:41:35
seizes these radiating towers.00:41:37
This happened in reality only00:41:40
once in unique conditions.00:41:42
When Russia was mired head over heels in a gigantic00:41:48
war, part of the territory was occupied00:41:52
and millions of deserters wandered around the country00:41:55
with weapons in their hands00:41:58
in the conditions of00:42:02
nuclear weapons.00:42:04
Such a scenario still seems to me00:42:08
extremely It is also unlikely00:42:10
when the only way to Victory is00:42:14
the formation of a broad coalition in which00:42:17
all00:42:19
forces find the opportunity to form what is00:42:23
called democratic, in00:42:26
fact, from my point of00:42:29
view, this is understood best in the Kremlin. The worst thing is00:42:32
understood by positions. Therefore, all the00:42:35
activities of the Kremlin are like chess.00:42:38
You see here nightmares, the00:42:40
entire activity of the Kremlin during00:42:43
2007 approximately consisted of00:42:47
not allowing the formation of a00:42:51
united front, and they won this game,00:42:56
this player has now reset the chessboard,00:43:00
and now they are doing the same thing with another00:43:03
player, the so-called patriotic00:43:05
movement, where they are absolutely repeating the00:43:08
same strategy They00:43:12
do not give the opportunity for the Old Russian defense, and there, too, to form00:43:14
some kind of single frontal alliance00:43:18
until an antidote is found and00:43:23
for now the00:43:25
antidote of politics divides you00:43:28
until all these groups00:43:32
find a way to fight not in the Russian way.00:43:36
Even if they are still very they do it in Russian00:43:37
and will not be able to find a common00:43:40
denominator that would allow people who00:43:43
hate each other on a personal00:43:46
level,00:43:47
have absolutely fundamentally different00:43:51
views, are different,00:43:53
envy each other, despise them,00:43:59
they are all on the sidelines of history, they00:44:03
all want to return to the high00:44:05
road, but if they don’t do everything else00:44:07
they will suppress and grab this denominator they00:44:09
will create some kind of single collection they00:44:13
will win if they cannot do this00:44:15
they will not win this transition I want00:44:18
if in one cafe in Europe a00:44:21
wonderful mountainous country there at the00:44:24
chessboard when you did not meet00:44:26
two people00:44:28
who sincerely deeply with00:44:32
every fiber of their soul they hated each00:44:35
other and called one Vladimirovich,00:44:38
ulyanovleniya from the second, Trotsky Benstein,00:44:41
then the Russian revolution in the form in00:44:43
which we all had the misfortune00:44:45
to observe it A hundred years ago,00:44:49
this is like this. This is me, Sergei Elkina, I’ll tell him00:44:53
Let him draw about it If he can, this is00:44:56
so00:44:58
unexpected look, but look, we are00:45:01
now talking about the00:45:03
Russian position, and even in exile,00:45:06
how is it in airless space, and there00:45:09
is a Ukrainian factor,00:45:12
there is an external factor,00:45:15
and when they said that Lenin came00:45:20
here in a sealed carriage, he is a00:45:22
German spy. Is it necessary to become a00:45:25
Ukrainian spy in this sense?00:45:29
I don’t know, you don’t see the Ukrainian00:45:32
factor for this in any way influencing00:45:35
future changes. I don’t mean00:45:38
military actions on the territory of Ukraine,00:45:40
of course00:45:47
such a thing,00:45:52
there are simply certain conditions for the formation of this00:45:55
alliance00:45:56
from the moment when Russia00:46:02
declared this war00:46:06
on what other basis than on00:46:10
the anti-war and in this I see00:46:15
such an entrance ticket to a00:46:22
realistic war that Russia does not need00:46:33
What is defeat this is a slogan yes this is00:46:37
what I really love the world of work00:46:39
Maya Let's have00:46:42
things with our own00:46:44
when Lenin is a deceitful and filthy00:46:56
propaganda with holes, as it were on all sides00:46:58
Lenin was a Russian ultranationalist oh00:47:04
Lenin was a Russian ultranationalist00:47:06
another past his nationalism00:47:09
existed in a perverted form of00:47:13
internationalism but he was a00:47:16
remarkable master00:47:20
of00:47:23
defeating his government00:47:25
within seconds of seizing power from00:47:31
the fatherland against all the imperialists00:47:40
just need to use00:47:44
war as a factor that makes00:47:48
the position of the government00:47:53
is not to miss this very moment00:47:56
of the revolutionary do not bother yourself with00:48:01
tearful patriotism00:48:03
will seize power And then to behave like the00:48:07
worst nationalists, in general, we00:48:11
believed, as a matter of fact, And who took00:48:15
Ukraine in the nineteenth year, the quality00:48:19
destroyed the first00:48:21
Ukrainian00:48:23
statehood, the Bolsheviks, the Ukrainian00:48:26
majority,00:48:32
now we will not to go into a complex00:48:36
Civil War00:48:41
There is nothing you can do here,00:48:44
so you understand, I don’t like to rush like this, the00:48:50
first thing is that Lenin was absolutely not00:48:54
sincere when he declared this slogan, he did00:48:58
not want Russia’s defeat in that war, he00:49:01
wanted to do the same thing he00:49:04
did in00:49:07
1991, to take advantage of the collapse of the USSR00:49:11
for in order to come to power and,00:49:13
in fact, put down00:49:15
the USSR as, well,00:49:18
let’s say, payment for seizing00:49:22
power from Gorbachev. Well, the year-old did it00:49:25
1700:49:28
donated Temporarily, yes, and now, as it were,00:49:32
Yeltsin’s heirs are trying to How to return00:49:36
everything back And then Lenin, as it were, had just00:49:40
decided their task was immediately turned in the00:49:42
other direction, in fact, where Lenin00:49:46
made compromises there, no one of his own free00:49:48
will because the00:49:50
White-Finnish people turned out to be in general And00:49:53
greatly exceeded the expectations of the00:49:57
Bolsheviks and that is, they had to go00:50:01
for the00:50:02
independence of Finland there because there was00:50:05
such confidence -then the Reds will immediately00:50:08
come to power there, in my opinion, there with Iran Well,00:50:12
no matter how things turned out, they lost some and00:50:16
everything else for 22 years,00:50:18
they tried right there, some kind of00:50:22
truth00:50:31
that now a00:50:34
situation has arisen in which there is this war has00:50:41
one component, it’s actually00:50:43
the main thing, it’s humanistic,00:50:46
that is, it’s humanistic, it’s legal,00:50:48
that is, one state has a00:50:54
claim against another state, it doesn’t matter whether it’s justified,00:50:57
unreasonable, whatever00:51:00
it was, it could be argued, it was decided contrary to the00:51:04
requirements of00:51:06
international law, documents When00:51:09
it was possible to sign to resolve these00:51:12
claims, applying preventive00:51:15
military strike00:51:17
now I don’t want to dispute whether there were00:51:19
concerns about the children of Donbass00:51:22
or there weren’t concerns about the00:51:25
children of Donbass I don’t want to get into these00:51:27
disputes00:51:28
Who did something bad there I don’t want to00:51:32
discuss now there was an infringement there was no00:51:36
infringement of the00:51:37
individual I don’t want to infringe on what was built00:51:41
or in the West intrigues did not try00:51:44
to use00:51:50
that all these issues like this after00:51:54
advertising people agreed should be00:51:55
resolved00:51:56
without the use of military force Russia00:52:00
fell out of this she used military00:52:03
force to solve they are trying00:52:05
components of this war about which we00:52:07
talk less, this second component is that00:52:09
something is a war in fact, the00:52:12
people from the future of Russia with the future of00:52:15
that same Russian world for the sake of which it seems that00:52:17
all this is being done from the future of00:52:20
Russian civilization, since it00:52:22
was written in one Chinese sports newspaper that it was a00:52:25
crossbow,00:52:29
it was written like that,00:52:31
and therefore this is the second00:52:34
component. Therefore, the00:52:37
Ukrainians have00:52:39
them they don’t need defenders, not the00:52:42
Russians, nor any others. They fight, they00:52:45
get help where they can, and no one00:52:50
needs us as unsympathetic00:52:52
helpers, so when you00:52:55
talk about immigration and the Ukrainian00:52:58
Factor, there are00:52:59
flies, cutlets separately, they live00:53:02
completely, they fly to the cutlets, Sorry00:53:05
Separately separate cutlets - you know,00:53:07
this is crawling into the gap in this00:53:11
case, the cutlets are Ukrainians and the flies00:53:16
have to be combined. Sorry,00:53:18
Let the flies live Let the flies live a00:53:20
separate life now the00:53:23
Russian position is00:53:25
when she talks about the war, she is first00:53:28
of all Well, she thinks about what it was before of00:53:31
all the crimes against the00:53:32
Russian people themselves, you understand00:53:35
and therefore this motivation. This war00:53:40
is equally a crime and00:53:45
how worse it is. It is a mistake.00:53:48
And I remind you. This is Vladimir Borisovich00:53:50
Pastukhov, these are our Shepherd Thursdays,00:53:52
thank you very much, very much.00:53:54
Today I would have had the idea to00:53:57
actually put one vote but I didn’t00:54:00
have time next time I’ll put it And about00:54:03
the books about shop.atant Media you asked, we00:54:06
found this book called00:54:08
happy Traitor and this is about the spy00:54:11
Blake Yes, this is from the same series that the00:54:15
centire is actually Simon Cooper00:54:18
happy traitor Are traitors ever00:54:21
happy? I recommend buying on00:54:24
shop.dilettant.media also don’t forget00:54:26
to like, don’t forget a little 2.80000:54:29
Why do you have 800 few likes and you have to00:54:32
make three thousand, it was a pity00:54:34
to subscribe to the channel And to00:54:37
promote this broadcast of ours with Vladimir00:54:39
borichem here wrote to me bored again00:54:41
This is not a circus circus for you Go you know00:54:44
where here for smart people they are for those00:54:46
who are bored and not bored and we00:54:50
will see you next Thursday I’ll remind you00:54:51
Tomorrow morning I won’t be there because I’m00:54:54
preparing for my twenty-fifth wedding anniversary with00:54:56
my wife I need to wash my neck, it’s00:54:58
called or lather it like some how it00:55:01
will go and on Saturday I00:55:03
will actually have a broadcast Although this day after day it00:55:06
will be so but for this I will go out on Sunday00:55:08
I will give Thank you all very much I00:55:10
will remind you again please you When you write00:55:13
Good questions I used them today00:55:15
to00:55:16
offend Vladimir Borisovich I00:55:18
use them And when you just say him there00:55:21
mi-mi-mi and that But this is, well, well, not good, so00:55:24
he sits home, they00:55:27
understand quite well And what are they doing to us and00:55:30
now there are 200 likes And they answered this00:55:34
now Dima Bykov will be with you uh don’t leave00:55:37
join me and I’ll remind you00:55:40
about donations to our channel too Zhenya00:55:43
Roizmanna helped us help us and there are00:55:46
donations you see in the left corner there00:55:49
we have three points from abroad and00:55:52
Russian and you can just subscribe and00:55:54
books there are many different good books and00:55:57
magazines shop.media I say goodbye to you I personally00:56:00
say goodbye until Saturday but we will discuss00:56:02
Borisovich he still has to remind us I00:56:05
promised rumors echo00:56:07
when answering questions only you00:56:10
should you they said later, when00:56:13
the charm is over, I’m just reminding00:56:16
with my hoof00:56:27
Everything is happy, goodbye everyone,00:56:29
goodbyeDescription:
Поддержать Живой гвоздь: с карт российских банков https://pay.cloudtips.ru/p/7edd7c0e с карт иностранных банков https://www.donationalerts.com/r/zhivgvozd Boosty: https://boosty.to/zhivoygvozd Каждый четверг Алексей Венедиктов* и научный сотрудник University College London Владимир Пастухов обсуждают главные события мировой повестки. Подписывайтесь на Алексея Венедиктова* в социальных сетях: https://t.me/aavst2022 https://twitter.com/aavst20551?s=11 Подписывайтесь на телеграм-канал Владимира Пастухова: https://t.me/v_pastukhov Мы выпускаем новый том комикса «Спасти»! Он посвящён предводителю крестьянского восстания, одному из самых известных самозванцев в истории России Емельяну Пугачёву. Купить: http://diletant.shop/tproduct/243589304-335282898191-kniga-spasti-emelyana-pugachyova-tom-4 * — власти РФ считают иностранным агентом, а ФБК** - разжигателем войны. ** — организация внесена в список иностранных агентов, признана экстремистской и запрещена в России 🔔 Последние новости и анонсы программ с YouTube-канала «Живой гвоздь», а также контент от наших постоянных гостей и экспертов на официальном телеграм-канале: https://t.me/livegvozd Мобильное приложение "Эха": любимые программы в формате радиоприёмника. Простой интерфейс. Работа в фоновом режиме. Расписание эфиров. Скачать: в AppStore: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/%D1%8D%D1%85%D0%BE-online/id1639907671 в PlayMarket: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=online.echofm.app Сайт "Эха": https://echofm.online/ (если не открывается – https://echo01.online/) Подписаться на Youtube-канал Дилетант: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuIE7-5QzeAR6EdZXwDRwuQ?sub_confirmation=1 📌 Живой гвоздь в аудиоформате: Яндекс.Музыка: https://music.yandex.ru/album/22141653?dir=desc Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B3%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%8C/id1616175210 Google Подкасты: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZGNsb3VkLmNvbS91c2Vycy9zb3VuZGNsb3VkOnVzZXJzOjEwOTk2NzA5MDUvc291bmRzLnJzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAIQ4aUDahcKEwigxO3Eweb2AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQEQ Магазин "Дилетант": https://diletant.shop/ По вопросам взаимодействия: [email protected]
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