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Russian
00:00:02
so colleagues Good afternoon evening00:00:08
I can hear I00:00:09
apologize, apparently some kind of00:00:12
internal overlay occurred over time00:00:14
I was sure that00:00:16
we still had time, it turns out No,00:00:20
well, I’m glad to welcome you00:00:23
to our webinar dedicated to the course on the00:00:27
history of psychoanalysis in the USA and00:00:29
Great Britain, apparently Can you hear me,00:00:32
everything is fine00:00:34
and so00:00:36
today of our meeting I offered00:00:39
you an article00:00:41
by Thomas, which in turn is00:00:44
devoted to the analysis of the00:00:48
nature and function of fantasy, you probably00:00:51
If you have already mastered the course theoretically,00:00:55
then you have already seen the mention of this article, you00:01:00
have come across this is exactly the article in00:01:03
connection with00:01:05
publications which, first with00:01:07
the speech, connected with her ksuzny00:01:09
report at the psychoanalytic congress,00:01:12
further In connection with the publication of this article, the00:01:18
final split in the00:01:20
British psychoanalytic society occurs,00:01:23
which continues to00:01:26
exist today, after which00:01:28
we have three groups00:01:30
in the British psychoanalytic society, a00:01:33
group of followers of soap, not00:01:35
Kleinians, the so-called group of00:01:37
followers of Anna Freud and00:01:40
Freud himself, and the so-called third group of00:01:43
independent ones. That is, those who do not belong to one of the00:01:46
others00:01:48
articulate and support such their autonomy,00:01:52
so we00:01:54
may have a webinar there in connection with the fact that,00:01:58
as far as I understand you, there is still 100:02:00
year of study, some questions may be related00:02:03
to this, but nevertheless, the webinar00:02:06
provides an opportunity for us00:02:09
to talk to clarify what remains for you, it00:02:13
may not be completely clear00:02:16
what caused some of your questions there00:02:18
may be some special interest in00:02:21
something, yes, that is, we00:02:23
have the opportunity to hold00:02:26
this meeting in such a dialogical manner.00:02:29
And unfortunately, for some reason your questions did00:02:34
not appear; maybe, of course,00:02:36
everything is so clear, the course00:02:40
is transparent,00:02:42
everything is so for you clear, yes, but nevertheless,00:02:46
I would still like it. Perhaps00:02:49
then now in such a live mode,00:02:52
some questions We00:02:54
formulated and discussed Yes, because00:02:58
I repeat this again and again Yes, I tell00:03:01
students about this From year to year, no matter how it00:03:04
is we have to talk with00:03:08
those people who contact us. And no00:03:10
matter how much we might want to00:03:12
avoid this, for various reasons we00:03:16
have to do it. Therefore, in the00:03:18
learning process, I would like you to00:03:21
start talking, start talking00:03:25
first of all about what you may have00:03:28
left00:03:30
not enough Clear enough00:03:32
That is, you and I have two00:03:34
such blocks, the first block is the00:03:38
course itself and perhaps some questions about it,00:03:41
and the second block if you have time before the article is00:03:43
quite voluminous. Maybe it is00:03:46
quite complicated for those who are00:03:49
just starting to enter the psychoanalytic00:03:52
field this is in psychoanalytic language in00:03:56
psychological conceptual apparatus,00:03:57
respectively, you and I have full00:04:00
scope for action, we can00:04:03
go and other various questions then we00:04:06
may discuss some that It would00:04:08
seem that they do not have such a completely direct00:04:10
relation to the course, but they may00:04:14
bother you, you could have them, so00:04:17
please00:04:19
Let's formulate the questions00:04:23
What will we talk about?00:04:26
I have Hello colleagues,00:04:31
the most primitive question in fact. It00:04:34
turns out that there is a split into 3 communities.00:04:38
I'm interested in what is the difference, how they were so00:04:41
fundamentally different, on the basis of00:04:43
what they split, where you didn't become friends, did00:04:47
you read the course materials, generally00:04:50
speaking, yes it is stated there that we00:04:54
are talking historically about two stages of00:04:57
discussion of contradictions so-called in00:05:00
Russian-language literature You are exactly such a00:05:03
term 3 discussion of contradictions first00:05:06
unfolds in our country on00:05:08
26,900 on 26,00:05:11
1927 and they are associated with disagreements00:05:15
between Malaya and Anna Freud regarding00:05:18
child psychoanalysis. What if you are a00:05:21
collection Please look, that is,00:05:24
as far as I understand the text materials,00:05:26
you have the text of the lecture, then there are00:05:29
respectively 400:05:31
points in which they disagreed with each other,00:05:35
which they tried to discuss and00:05:38
come to some kind of compromise, voiced,00:05:42
they relate to working with children, maybe00:05:45
then now with Let's try to remember00:05:47
which four we are talking about. Since00:05:50
after this polemic between Anna Freud and00:05:55
little Klein, a split does not occur, but00:05:57
nevertheless, members of the British00:05:59
psychoanalytic society begin00:06:01
to ask these questions, that is, also00:06:03
whose positions and views are closer to the views of00:06:07
Anna Freud, which in turn are00:06:09
follows Freud and places drives or closer views in the first place in the00:06:12
center of mental functioning,00:06:19
which already at that time begins to talk00:06:23
about unconscious fantasies and what is similar00:06:27
from her point of view. They are at the00:06:33
core of how the psyche functions and,00:06:37
in fact, this is exactly in what form00:06:39
attraction is presented in our00:06:41
psyche a little later in 1943, the00:06:45
second unfolds with discussions about00:06:48
contradictions and are connected. They are just us with00:06:51
Seuss’s speech in the language in00:06:54
which she00:06:57
was published as an oral report, this article was00:07:00
later presented00:07:02
her view client view she is a00:07:05
sequence student a little not00:07:07
Klein actually asked to speak00:07:10
because she herself had00:07:14
addressed quite a few00:07:18
works, especially conceptual works.00:07:21
Therefore, she asked Susie to put into language00:07:23
ideas regarding the00:07:25
unconscious fantasy of its role in the00:07:28
mental apparatus in mental00:07:30
functioning. Actually, just in00:07:32
this article, the nature and function of fantasy and00:07:35
in the discussion of this article as once again,00:07:38
seemingly00:07:40
insurmountable contradictions in views begin to emerge00:07:43
between the followers of Anna Freddy, rather00:07:46
the same follower of Sigmund00:07:49
Freud, and the views and positions of Mel don’t curse00:07:53
who took the middle position entered the00:07:57
group of independent so-called00:07:59
quite heterogeneous audience there are00:08:03
students among them00:08:07
entered this group Although he studied00:08:10
They defend some of their00:08:14
views, their positions of a00:08:17
different nature. As you remember from the text of the00:08:21
lecture, what are the grounds, what are the disagreements, the00:08:25
discussion, the contradictions, what are Mel00:08:28
and Anna Freud disagreeing with each other00:08:31
regarding child00:08:32
psychoanalysis,00:08:41
here was this series of positions, only00:08:44
I have why something 5 is formulated if I00:08:46
think about that questions Well, there is a00:08:50
Preparatory phase first about00:08:53
this about this is about that right00:08:55
Well, yes, she read that this is the goal of a00:09:00
psychoanalyst to interest Well, since00:09:03
the child does not turn to a00:09:04
psychoanalyst for consultations, but is00:09:07
brought by his parents then Accordingly, the00:09:10
psychoanalyst needs to interest the child in00:09:12
the process of psychoanalysis; for this, a00:09:15
preparatory phase is required;00:09:17
not the client believed that, in general, the00:09:21
child does not need to be specially00:09:22
interested in any way, or specially00:09:24
prepared, because literally00:09:26
after the first conversation there, some first00:09:29
interpretation given to the child He himself00:09:32
will have an interest in this process00:09:35
later00:09:37
[music]00:09:38
ah-ah regarding transference, the00:09:42
presence of transference in children Anna Frey00:09:45
read that transference is impossible in children00:09:48
since00:09:49
there are parental figures and, as it were, for a00:09:52
psychoanalyst this transference Well, it will not be00:09:55
relevant00:09:57
only if to somehow isolate the child in00:10:00
some kind of boarding school or there00:10:02
I understood, but then she even founded this00:10:06
hospital or that it was a boarding school for00:10:08
children where they were kept there and00:10:10
underwent psychoanalysis, but the00:10:13
client did00:10:15
n’t agree with her about this and it was believed that00:10:17
transference can be formed by the00:10:19
analyst and, in general, there are no00:10:22
problems with this. No, and about the game00:10:28
that the child’s parents themselves00:10:33
are also figures or objects of transference,00:10:37
such an important idea that the analyst, in00:10:42
turn, is therefore as if she were talking00:10:45
about the fact that there is a certain transference on the parents and00:10:49
then there is a certain transference on the analyst, so there is00:10:51
no contradiction in this. Well, that00:10:54
even the relationship with the parents improves.00:10:57
When in the bridge of the nose the analyst00:10:59
resolves these situations and then the family,00:11:03
as it were, well,00:11:06
interaction with the parents00:11:10
and then regarding the game, that Freud00:11:14
criticized the importance of the game in00:11:18
psychoanalysis00:11:20
and no matter how she believed that the game00:11:25
cannot be an analogue of free associations00:11:27
in adults and therefore is not part of00:11:29
psychoanalysis. Just a little, the client believed00:11:31
that there is always a connection between the00:11:33
figure in the game and the00:11:37
objects in life child significant, that00:11:40
is, parents00:11:42
It seems that the main oppositions in which00:11:47
they do not agree with each other, that is, those00:11:49
related then to the idea of00:11:52
mental life about how it works,00:11:55
how it is organized and techniques for working with00:12:00
children,00:12:05
this point about the game lets out the oil of such00:12:07
generalized 3 and will remain so00:12:12
Klein has developed a strict play00:12:13
technique for working with00:12:17
small children, and today00:12:19
it continues to00:12:22
exist because for small00:12:26
children this is something that few00:12:27
encountered before the pre-teen00:12:30
age of 10-11 years are not able to freely00:12:34
associate they cannot perform this00:12:38
technical the requirement is00:12:39
psychoanalytic, therefore, since she00:12:42
herself worked in many ways with00:12:45
small children, starting from the age of two or three,00:12:47
it became necessary to create00:12:50
some kind of alternative and she suggested that you and00:12:54
I play with the children. Those who have00:12:58
children, those who observe children around us,00:13:02
understand that at two three years is00:13:04
really many years. At seven years old,00:13:06
a child cannot indulge in free00:13:09
associations lying on the couch while the00:13:11
analyst behind him is00:13:14
mostly silent and interprets00:13:17
what he is talking about from manifest explicit00:13:20
revealed contents moving on to latent00:13:23
hidden contents, it is simply impossible00:13:25
for such a small child more Moreover,00:13:29
with regard to children of such an00:13:32
intermediate age from 10 11 to00:13:36
adolescence, pre-adolescence, beginning00:13:38
of adolescence, also specialists who00:13:41
work with children and adolescents usually00:13:44
offer the child to choose what00:13:48
he wants. He wants to talk or he00:13:51
wants to play, and at any moment he can00:13:53
turn to the game material toys00:13:57
that are present in the office in order to00:13:59
express something, even if at first he00:14:01
said that he would like to00:14:03
talk to no one, even when working with00:14:06
teenagers, it happens that sometimes you00:14:09
may want to turn to some00:14:12
kind of game object00:14:15
the format of the work, especially when00:14:20
some difficult topics arise00:14:23
for direct discussion to talk about00:14:26
them, so usually the office of a00:14:29
specialist who works with children from00:14:31
teenagers00:14:33
looks like this today there are00:14:36
toys and, accordingly, it is00:14:39
possible to draw00:14:42
pictures as one of the options00:14:45
therapy with non-adult adults, we are00:14:50
still talking about the end of00:14:51
adolescence from about 18 years of age and00:14:56
the ability to talk00:14:58
is present, because indeed in00:15:01
this regard00:15:03
young children are absolutely right;00:15:07
they cannot freely associate the date, which00:15:09
Anna Freud tells us then applies00:15:11
only to older children This00:15:14
means that it deprives us of the opportunity for00:15:15
psychoanalytic work with children;00:15:18
there is another option when this00:15:21
happens in the presence of a parent00:15:24
accompanied by the mother. But still, usually we00:15:28
choose this gaming technique and00:15:31
work with parents separately. That is,00:15:33
firstly, if you and I remember an even00:15:36
more recent00:15:38
specialist in areas of work with children00:15:43
said that 99 percent of cases of00:15:47
children’s problems are problems of parents,00:15:50
therefore, therapy is usually needed by00:15:55
parents and not by the child, and then when00:15:57
parents work through some of their00:16:00
difficulties, some of their problems are00:16:02
resolved, the condition00:16:05
for the child improves by itself,00:16:07
for example, systemic family therapy date the00:16:10
idea is fully used when a00:16:13
child is spoken of as a carrier of a00:16:15
family symptom since he00:16:18
is in the most dependent on the most00:16:21
vulnerable position, his psyche is the least00:16:25
mature compared to adult00:16:28
family members, respectively, often through00:16:30
some of his own problems through some of his00:16:33
own symptoms The child tells us the00:16:35
family history and what the problem or00:16:39
problems of the adults in this family are.00:16:42
Therefore, accordingly, if we are00:16:44
approached with a child. We00:16:47
consult the first meetings, we communicate00:16:50
with the parents and communicate with the child and00:16:54
make a decision who00:16:56
really needs therapy, often00:16:58
we offer therapy for adult family members,00:17:02
parents, for example, individual00:17:04
therapy or some kind of parallel00:17:07
work. Let’s say we take the child’s work.00:17:10
But then, according to the00:17:11
parents or one of the00:17:14
parents, but more often. It happens that mothers are00:17:18
more willing to go to their own00:17:21
therapy. Why do dads express discoveries for many reasons?00:17:25
then we00:17:28
recommend that one of00:17:31
our colleagues contact them, we give some recommendations,00:17:33
or vice versa, we can work with someone adult00:17:37
if there is a need for00:17:39
child therapy, such a desire,00:17:41
accordingly, we recommend a specialist00:17:43
who works with children or00:17:45
adolescents, another00:17:48
additional difficulty arises00:17:52
modern psychoanalytic therapy00:17:54
adheres to the position that here it is00:17:57
exactly close to what Anna00:18:00
Freud proposed, that before work is00:18:02
possible, we need to00:18:04
formulate the own00:18:07
request of this now teenager, no longer00:18:11
a child. Why does he00:18:17
need therapy with us? Our work could be needed. be What is useful00:18:20
because otherwise a fairly00:18:23
common situation on the one00:18:26
hand, a teenager even before us has a00:18:28
dependent person in bondage if his parents00:18:32
brought him in and decided that he needs therapy,00:18:35
of course he00:18:38
can begin to fulfill this requirement for some time, but if00:18:40
we agreed with him, they did not clarify00:18:43
they didn’t understand, and for what purpose it00:18:46
could actually be necessary and useful, most likely00:18:49
we will be dealing with such a00:18:51
history of00:18:52
receiving00:18:54
psychological00:18:56
psychodiagnostic practice, this00:18:57
is called socially desirable answers, a00:19:03
young man or girl will come to us in 45 or minutes00:19:07
and we will be more00:19:10
perceived as some agents of00:19:13
parents, accordingly, to be00:19:17
openly honest with us, to talk about what00:19:20
really bothers him, the head will00:19:22
come will be very problematic. That00:19:25
is, this is the difficulty that00:19:30
workers of various00:19:33
educational institutions and school00:19:36
psychologists face in full, generally speaking, it is very00:19:39
doubtful that a00:19:41
teenager who already understands quite a lot will00:19:44
come and he will talk openly with the school psychologist about00:19:47
anything,00:19:50
being completely unsure00:19:54
that he will be00:19:56
guaranteed compliance with children and00:20:00
adolescents as well as with adults, we00:20:02
comply with the rules of confidentiality,00:20:04
what will happen with what he00:20:06
will talk about will become Is00:20:08
anyone aware of this, from teachers to00:20:11
parents to classmates?00:20:14
Big questions are in great00:20:17
doubt. Therefore,00:20:18
our task with you is to carry out this00:20:20
preliminary work with the teenager to00:20:22
find out what he wants, what he00:20:27
could get, what excites and00:20:30
worries him speaking directly about the fact that yes, we00:20:33
found out, we heard something, mom is worried and00:20:36
worried And you,00:20:38
even on you, we can communicate00:20:43
from you, why might you want to00:20:46
work, if we can’t formulate this request, then on00:20:49
and on More likely, it00:20:53
will be some kind of both sides, imitation of00:20:56
psychological00:20:58
work, especially psychoanalytic work. Therefore, if00:21:00
we hear from a teenager a categorical00:21:03
refusal Yes, the words that I need, I do00:21:08
n’t want anything, accordingly, then we00:21:11
talk with the parents, we talk about the fact that00:21:14
Perhaps then psychotherapy is what00:21:16
he really wants and we could do it00:21:20
propose And since the child is not ready,00:21:23
he does not want, we are here in the position of such00:21:27
Truth of frankness, we do not00:21:30
insist, because as I have already00:21:33
said, Otherwise, it will be some kind of00:21:36
imitation, he will come to imitate an00:21:39
interested patient, we will00:21:41
sit to imitate a00:21:44
child adolescent psychoanalyst, that00:21:47
is, then00:21:48
we refuse, they say that we have a conversation with the parents,00:21:52
saying that, unfortunately,00:21:54
only your desire is not enough,00:21:56
since the child does not have his own00:22:00
desire, the work00:22:02
becomes impossible, but if you want, then00:22:05
maybe then we could work with you00:22:08
just because you00:22:10
worries because very often we00:22:13
hear that00:22:14
parents are worried about00:22:17
that very teenage crisis, that very00:22:20
teenage rebellion that begins00:22:22
to unfold when something completely different grows out of such an00:22:25
obedient cute00:22:28
student at school, a cute00:22:30
latent kid,00:22:32
something completely different is very00:22:37
disturbing for so many internal00:22:40
reasons, we can certainly meet00:22:44
That is why, in fact, there are00:22:48
not so many specialists working with teenage children, we can00:22:51
meet with a categorical reaction from a00:22:53
parent to this, saying that no,00:22:57
I don’t need this, but the child needs it, I00:22:59
already explained everything to you there or I explained it,00:23:01
I said it’s a big regret that00:23:05
it works forced and then such00:23:09
To refuse work, I suggest that the parent00:23:11
just think about it.00:23:14
You’re probably thinking. Come here. Let’s00:23:16
work on what’s bothering you.00:23:18
About your child or in relation to00:23:21
your child, what is it? Yes, such00:23:25
experience00:23:26
tells us that it looks like Françoise00:23:29
Daltovogo was quite right,00:23:31
again like psychoanalysts Yes we know00:23:34
that we all come from childhood,00:23:36
respectively, those teenage children who have a00:23:40
prosperous family situation, parents00:23:43
who do not need their own psychotherapy,00:23:46
they come to us,00:23:47
Parents who, for example, with this00:23:50
teenage crisis with this00:23:51
teenage rebellion, turn out to be able to00:23:56
somehow cope with getting in this with this00:23:59
or then it’s Parents who come00:24:02
themselves, not the child, then the00:24:04
mother comes and says that you know, this is00:24:07
one of the reasons for contacting you, I have a00:24:09
14-year-old son or daughter, what’s happening00:24:13
I really want to work on this00:24:16
then that’s why on the one hand, in connection with00:24:20
this, you and I can completely come to the00:24:22
conclusion that in some ways, if it00:24:25
concerns young children, we are more similar to a00:24:29
greater extent, a little not Klein, in some ways,00:24:31
if this concerns teenagers and00:24:34
older children,00:24:36
Anna Freud from a technical point of view, but00:24:41
nevertheless, you and I can, since00:24:43
clinicians will be critical,00:24:45
use00:24:48
gaming equipment somewhere, conversational00:24:51
equipment somewhere, and it is clear that when a00:24:52
child and I play with him and talk00:24:54
in the same language, this does not mean that it goes away in00:24:57
complete silence, a certain rearrangement of00:25:00
toys in some space. But with00:25:03
regard to transfer, what Klein tells us00:25:06
little about probably has a large basis00:25:12
today, from the position of modern00:25:14
analysts,00:25:17
when she essentially tells us for the first time00:25:21
about what seems to00:25:23
exist and already at a very early age,00:25:27
certain internal objects of the individual00:25:33
which, in turn, are00:25:36
projected onto external objects and then00:25:39
how these projections are dealt with. Well, or00:25:42
by transfer this external object00:25:45
again becomes internal, we change, it00:25:49
modifies the internal object again, it00:25:51
unfolds again, this is00:25:54
externalization and a new internalization00:25:57
occurs00:25:59
little does not Klein introduces for us00:26:01
the idea of these cycles,00:26:04
essentially resolving a dilemma that00:26:08
has existed for a long time in psychological science,00:26:11
including psychoanalytic science,00:26:14
what is more important is what happens internally00:26:20
determines external attraction determines00:26:24
what happens in me this is00:26:26
Freud’s thesis from the work of the00:26:29
theory of sexuality in 1905 Freud00:26:34
says attraction is primary and the object00:26:37
secondary first of the drive that is looking00:26:41
for an object to which00:26:44
the supporters of the theory of object relations will be directed is00:26:48
such a very important school for today's fault00:26:51
code for example that is why he ended up00:26:53
among the group of independents they say00:26:55
that nothing like that is most important the object is00:27:00
what is happening in me how my mother00:27:03
fulfills her role as she copes00:27:06
with her functions. This will00:27:08
determine what will happen00:27:09
inside it. It seems that if we return00:27:15
there we will be able to discover that00:27:18
both are important. It would seem so trivial and00:27:21
obvious to us today,00:27:23
however, there are many discussions that are00:27:27
also00:27:29
ongoing today, she tells us about the fact that00:27:31
there is00:27:32
something internal, initial, primary, which,00:27:36
being externalized externally, influences this00:27:40
object, the object gives some kind of reaction,00:27:44
which in turn becomes00:27:46
placed inside and modifies this00:27:50
internal object or does not modify it,00:27:52
respectively, this is what determines the00:27:56
transition from paranoia In the00:27:58
schizoid position to depressive or it does00:28:01
n’t happen, and moreover, she00:28:04
tells us that both of these positions will00:28:07
exist in our psyche00:28:10
throughout the rest of our lives,00:28:12
she00:28:15
does not deny Afridov’s stability. She says that she is00:28:18
interested in a much earlier stage from00:28:20
birth approximately00:28:22
the age of three or four and then about00:28:26
a year,00:28:27
what happens at the Freudian00:28:30
oral stage,00:28:32
reinforcing the fact that these phases will continue to be00:28:38
present throughout later life And we all00:28:41
exist at both levels and the00:28:45
level of our mental00:28:47
functioning is further neurotic,00:28:49
borderline or psychotic will be00:28:51
determined by the specific weight of00:28:54
which of these phases is greater, that is, conditionally00:28:57
greater, and more often we in a depressive00:29:00
position00:29:01
exist in a depressive opposition,00:29:03
then the neurotic organization, if00:29:06
more and more often on Paranoia, then the00:29:09
Borderline Organization or the00:29:11
psychotic organization we will have,00:29:14
respectively,00:29:16
similar to today’s such00:29:19
fundamental contradictions no, for00:29:23
some situations, one is more likely to be suitable for00:29:28
others, and00:29:31
the other is more likely to be suitable, but still in relation to the00:29:33
conceptual transfer of us by the game. It seems00:29:37
that little and no damn reflects to a greater extent00:29:41
what is really00:29:43
unfolding, unlike Anna Freud,00:29:46
who would like perhaps00:29:50
more of such a psychological the logic of00:29:53
the work of00:29:54
the media To continue to be 43 years old00:29:59
Susan Isaacs and with an article by nature with a00:30:03
speech with an article with a report by00:30:05
nature and the function of fantasy where she already00:30:08
dates the idea of unconscious fantasies00:30:10
that are further transformed More00:30:13
Jews internal objects or00:30:15
presentations of oneself effects between00:30:19
them00:30:20
develops joins in fact For the first time00:30:23
this is consistently00:30:26
logically argued and begins to sound00:30:30
accordingly here already in relation to00:30:33
what is at the00:30:36
center of mental life, already an analyst in00:30:41
British English has to00:30:43
choose concept ideas for them.00:30:52
I therefore may not have had time to00:30:56
read this article, which is voluminous as I already00:31:00
said, so I offered it to you, yes, that00:31:02
is Tom Sogdan One of the most00:31:05
interesting leading modern00:31:07
psychoanalysts, moreover, working00:31:10
as the head of an organization that00:31:13
deals with the00:31:15
psychoanalytic treatment of psychoses and00:31:18
severe non-neurotic pathologies, he00:31:21
actually reads this article, the nature and function of00:31:23
fantasy, sequentially,00:31:28
explains to us, makes it, if we are not00:31:32
Klinians, there is a lot of pain, so understandable and00:31:36
comes in them, with a very important conclusion at00:31:40
the end, they say that the school of00:31:43
object relations is largely connected00:31:47
with clayey’s development,00:31:51
articulating these differences between the ideas of00:31:54
Asics and, accordingly, there is little00:31:56
swearing in many ways and Ronald Farmer and his00:32:01
concepts that are in the theory of object00:32:03
relations B further developed, so I00:32:06
highly recommend that everyone expects00:32:10
to try the article further later if you haven’t had time00:32:12
to read it yet and maybe00:32:15
capture some basic thoughts for yourself00:32:21
whether someone has already approached it or have00:32:29
n’t read the article yet. Can I have a question about00:32:33
when I started reading I just arose00:32:36
There, well, there’s just a misunderstanding there and00:32:38
everywhere about instinct. And before that we were00:32:41
attracting and now I have some kind of00:32:43
bridge, I’m reading and so I don’t understand what we’re talking about00:32:46
and here we are such a00:32:48
split. [ __ ], I couldn’t somehow00:32:51
Well, understand, understand, not because if00:32:53
I switch to what this attraction is, I replace00:32:56
something, but somehow00:32:58
the picture didn’t work out, it was difficult to00:33:00
combine this matter in translation00:33:03
or just about a different00:33:07
matter. Thank you very much for the question, the question is00:33:10
very important since you and I as00:33:13
those who read mainly the Russian translation00:33:16
into Russian, we can and do encounter precisely this00:33:18
complexity, the00:33:21
matter is in historicism and in how it is00:33:25
consistently accepted to translate the00:33:28
Lidovian and German term I can00:33:33
Probably if someone speaks German in German,00:33:35
how will this be correct in the transcription00:33:37
Freud uses a word that00:33:40
can be translated both as an attraction and as an00:33:43
instinct, and the fact is that the first00:33:46
translations of Freud from German into00:33:48
English belong to Stritch,00:33:51
who translated the word00:33:54
used by Freud as an instinct into English That is why00:33:58
If you and I Maybe someone has met00:34:00
and encountered, we will open the00:34:04
translations some Freudian works00:34:08
from about the 90s into Russian, then00:34:12
there and everywhere we will see the word00:34:14
instinct for the word drive, we00:34:16
will not see there because these are translations from00:34:18
English, that is, meetings into00:34:21
English translated as instinct, everything that is00:34:24
translated from English into Russian,00:34:26
respectively is also translated as00:34:28
instinct of some kind the question00:34:30
is clarified and the windows are00:34:33
indeed in accordance with the00:34:37
Anglo-Saxon tradition of British and00:34:40
American modern psychoanalysis00:34:42
also use after the meeting the word00:34:45
instinct meaning that's when you were00:34:48
forced to do this double00:34:49
translation Using00:34:52
this word as a translation00:34:56
of Freudian00:34:57
he uses, respectively, we are00:35:01
studying and more00:35:04
recent translations of Freud, when they began00:35:06
to translate into Russian from German, they00:35:09
just offer us the word drive,00:35:11
so in00:35:14
old translations from English or00:35:17
current some articles or00:35:19
monographs of00:35:20
English-speaking analysts, you and I will often00:35:24
see the word instinct for ourselves then00:35:28
we are replacing with the word attraction, that00:35:32
is, in this case, the point is not that the00:35:34
male is not00:35:36
sufficiently informed in the00:35:39
psychoanalytic theory before which00:35:40
Ogndon translated this article, but the point is00:35:43
that windows, in accordance with the tradition of00:35:45
English and American psychoanalysis,00:35:48
use exactly this word, therefore in00:35:51
this sense the translation reliable She00:35:53
can mislead you and me like this,00:35:56
that is, we then,00:35:58
accordingly, where we see instinct,00:36:01
it means some00:36:04
stable behavioral pattern related to the animal world that00:36:11
realizes itself outside of00:36:13
conscious control, respectively,00:36:16
we replace it with the word attraction00:36:19
will become clearer, therefore here00:36:22
can be defined by tradition we meet00:36:25
which begins with a meeting and his00:36:29
translations of Freud into English, the first00:36:33
number of English analysts and American00:36:37
analysts continue to use exactly this00:36:39
word, that is, everyone there00:36:41
understands what is meant. Yes, it’s00:36:44
great that we felt it, we00:36:46
saw it from the text and for ourselves we00:36:49
began to do this work for for you and me who00:36:52
are studying today, who are already reading00:36:55
today's translations of Freud from00:36:58
German, the word attraction is suitable so that We00:37:02
understand what we are talking about, it is wonderful00:37:05
such attentiveness of your text,00:37:09
again, I will make a reservation, it may be as00:37:11
such general00:37:14
general recommendations for such training. The fact is00:37:18
that00:37:19
our attention, our thinking with memory00:37:23
as a consequence of attention and thinking is structured in this00:37:27
way, I realized that if we00:37:29
come across any00:37:32
familiar word in any00:37:35
artistic or some kind of scientific text, if00:37:38
we don’t know the meaning of this word or00:37:42
find it difficult to define it, it seems to be00:37:46
something familiar but not so that00:37:50
we could say to ourselves especially clearly, but what does00:37:53
this actually mean? Next,00:37:56
if we skip this word, deciding that it does00:37:59
n’t have much meaning, then we00:38:03
no longer perceive the text, that is, the meanings00:38:06
begin to elude us or we begin to00:38:09
replace the missing meanings with something something we00:38:12
already know Who just what you voiced00:38:15
and it’s wonderful that you stopped at00:38:18
this word got hooked on it if you don’t00:38:22
understand what is meant And the word is often00:38:25
found then the00:38:27
meaning of what is written about what is written00:38:30
does not become clear00:38:34
nothing is clear in this case on00:38:37
Therefore, with regard to00:38:38
psychoanalytic texts, just as I00:38:41
understand that you have very large volumes of00:38:45
information, a huge amount of00:38:47
literature, all political, you are00:38:50
asked to read, master00:38:53
such a fairly short period of time, nevertheless, still00:38:58
try to00:38:59
treat the study of a00:39:02
psychoneutic language as the study of a00:39:04
foreign language if we - we00:39:07
meet an unfamiliar word We turn to00:39:12
What do we do if we start learning00:39:17
Hindi00:39:18
five words in a sentence are clear 500:39:23
unknown sentences of 10 words what00:39:25
then do we00:39:31
look at the dictionary great we00:39:34
Turn to dictionaries therefore I recommend to00:39:38
you two such well-00:39:40
known psychoanalytic dictionaries 100:39:44
hour00:39:46
critical dictionary of psychoanalysis second00:39:50
no less famous may be even the more00:39:52
famous dictionary of psychoanalysis by Laplanche00:39:56
and Pantolis and the third less known topic.00:40:02
However, especially if we are talking about00:40:05
different Klinin texts, as in this00:40:08
case, I highly recommend it to you, in00:40:11
comparison with the first two dictionaries,00:40:14
this book was translated into Russian not so long ago and00:40:17
is called it dictionary of00:40:20
psychoanalysis author of her hin Shell Wood00:40:24
Robert Hinshawd00:40:27
looks extremely useful And00:40:31
[music]00:40:32
informative for us consists of two sections;00:40:36
one section00:40:38
also gives definitions and colleagues in a historical00:40:41
context, how ideas00:40:45
about a particular concept have changed in different schools of00:40:49
psychoanalysis in including any00:40:52
concept, let’s say we came across the word00:40:54
instinct, you can just reduce the00:40:59
meaning of this word and there is not00:41:01
just a definition Yes, but there instinct00:41:04
is just that, but in historical logic00:41:08
who said what about this, you00:41:11
can find out, for example, that in the00:41:14
Anglo-Saxon00:41:16
school schools of Anglo-Saxon it is accepted to00:41:19
use the word instinct to use others00:41:21
to accept words in treatment to use the00:41:23
second section consists of personal00:41:28
different That is, you can read the concepts of different00:41:30
psychological authors there with00:41:34
references to works to years of00:41:37
activity, this is also in such a historical00:41:40
key and the key of continuity who and how00:41:42
who influenced whom and something he suggested,00:41:45
what he said on what occasion, therefore00:41:48
I believe that one of, if not the most,00:41:52
is better today in this00:41:55
dictionary version, then we would rather00:41:57
say that this is such an00:41:59
explanatory dictionary of psychoanalytic00:42:03
language, so it might make sense00:42:06
to spend00:42:08
additional time on that that then it00:42:11
will work for you, clarifying some00:42:14
meanings of some words now, but then00:42:17
you will read new texts, you00:42:20
will not have any questions or difficulties.00:42:23
Thank you very much for the questions and for such00:42:27
attention to the texts, since one of the00:42:32
tasks of our professional training00:42:34
is learn to read professional literature on your own00:42:38
because00:42:42
a lot of time has passed since the time of Freud00:42:45
and modern psychoanalysis is00:42:49
very rich in various interesting00:42:53
texts, concepts and ideas, so this is a00:42:57
very important point Thank you for00:42:59
raising it Thank you for coping with it,00:43:02
using what you already know and00:43:05
starting to replace this word instinct00:43:08
is understandable for American readers or00:43:12
English readers of the organ's article on the00:43:15
word passion which is for German00:43:17
readers or for us00:43:19
Russian readers to a greater extent00:43:22
Clear. Then what we are talking about00:43:28
cannot be any other questions, that00:43:31
is, accordingly, more detailed on the00:43:34
discussions about these O contradictions, again, in the00:43:38
text of the lecture, as it turned out, this is there and00:43:41
hin00:43:43
went to Wood, and that is, if00:43:45
you want to go into more detail, you can also read about this,00:43:48
what exactly are these fundamental00:43:50
differences,00:43:52
what was it so difficult to agree on, they00:43:56
Freud and they don’t swear at all, if at all,00:43:58
such attempts were undertaken historically00:44:01
if we talk about this in order00:44:03
first00:44:05
in 1926,00:44:09
Anna Freud comes to Berlin and constructs her00:44:14
speech at the international00:44:17
psychoanalytic congress as a00:44:19
criticism of the idea of Mel and Klein00:44:22
and little Klein finds herself forced00:44:25
to respond to this criticism A year later in00:44:30
Vienna She reads00:44:31
her report which she00:44:33
presents is a00:44:36
consistent answer to Anna Freud's criticism00:44:39
of her, we see about it,00:44:43
we discover that the initiator of these00:44:47
debates, which ultimately lead to00:44:49
a split in us, to the division of society into three00:44:52
groups, is still more likely to be Anna00:44:54
Freud. But on the other hand, perhaps it00:44:57
influenced Melanie’s thought Klein00:45:01
because before that she paid little00:45:04
attention to somehow trying to express00:45:07
her ideas in writing00:45:10
and trying to record them and It is00:45:14
likely that if such a thing we00:45:18
could say on our provocation on the00:45:20
part of Anna Freud would not have happened. It is very00:45:23
likely that not Susan Isaacs with her00:45:26
article no further than the entire school of object00:45:29
relations,00:45:30
most likely the school of Klyanians00:45:33
would most likely simply not have appeared, since00:45:38
clinical desk work, some00:45:41
writing of some texts, much less00:45:44
some kind of public speaking,00:45:46
her only more or less voluminous00:45:50
work was written in 1957 year00:45:53
shortly before his own death Well, it’s00:45:57
quite voluminous Yes, I mean a00:46:00
thin book of a small,00:46:04
probably00:46:05
aroma again, which is called envy and00:46:08
gratitude, it’s also very I recommend00:46:11
you read it Therefore, unlike Anna00:46:14
Freud, who is a very00:46:16
prolific writer, she wrote a large00:46:20
number of texts that are voluminous in the00:46:23
true sense of the word, therefore00:46:25
It is quite possible that these facts are00:46:28
historical. They allowed00:46:31
psychoanalytic thought to move further00:46:34
and today the School of the00:46:37
client school of object relations00:46:39
continues to remain perhaps the most00:46:43
influential in the global psychotic00:46:45
community and clinically there00:46:49
will certainly be different00:46:53
teachers who adhere to different approaches to the00:46:57
red schools.00:46:59
the view is rather clinical,00:47:03
such an eclectic direction. I00:47:06
mean that in my opinion, you and I have the right to00:47:11
borrow from any schools from any directions and use in our00:47:14
work what is personally close to us00:47:19
in spirit and what suits what works, in00:47:23
my opinion, for the Linyantsy school of object00:47:26
relations of modern how Tom Sogdin00:47:28
is,00:47:29
without directly declaring it directly, an American,00:47:33
he does not need to belong to any particular school,00:47:35
nevertheless, he00:47:38
is still a representative of the school of object00:47:40
relations and the school to a greater extent than the00:47:45
school of ego psychology, which00:47:48
belongs to00:47:49
Kerberg. Although it is customary to write him down there,00:47:52
generally speaking, it is a big question because a00:47:56
his like this Next year we will00:47:59
meet, I believe that we will talk about this00:48:03
at a webinar which, in00:48:06
limited patients, will be devoted to working with them.00:48:08
But such Ber is precisely00:48:10
the one who actively uses the00:48:12
concept of object relations of00:48:15
internal relations to work with00:48:18
neurotic pathologies in in particular,00:48:23
they focus on the Borderline personality organization and, generally speaking, initially00:48:26
Give the level of personality organization00:48:28
which for us today,00:48:30
after the book, psychoanalytic00:48:34
diagnostics by Nancy McWilliams, who in00:48:36
turn is a student and former00:48:39
employees of Kernberg, and after00:48:41
her book, probably for us this is already a00:48:44
given it is clear that there are Levels of00:48:47
personality organization, how we00:48:49
define them, what we use for this,00:48:51
how we continue to work with this, although in00:48:55
fact this is the development of what00:48:58
such a large team of his students,00:49:02
colleagues, he heads a00:49:05
large-scale project, what he is00:49:07
doing now in the 60-70s already00:49:10
last century at Kornev University,00:49:14
respectively, such working00:49:19
ideas are very working on concepts, and00:49:23
moreover, the same Otekerberg00:49:25
will tell you and me that from the point of view of00:49:27
clinical benefit, they are theoretical00:49:31
debates of00:49:32
clinical benefit, a00:49:34
working useful one is the concept00:49:37
according to which the psyche is a00:49:40
set Yes, a certain00:49:43
object00:49:45
representations of oneself, self-00:49:48
representations and affects between them,00:49:51
any psyche then of any level00:49:55
of functioning represents00:49:58
some kind of set of such00:50:01
internal dyads where we have a certain00:50:03
internal object Self-presentation and00:50:06
this object or presentation of oneself is connected by the00:50:10
affect between them and further on the00:50:13
basis of how Once this concept is used, he00:50:15
will develop his own technique for working00:50:17
with the borderline level of00:50:20
personality organization, which is first called00:50:22
expressive00:50:23
psychological therapy. And then what00:50:26
we call it today and the00:50:29
book may also be available in advance00:50:33
next year, or maybe if00:50:35
someone is already working and practicing then already00:50:38
now this is relevant for you, maybe00:50:40
now it’s called a psychotherapist,00:50:43
transfer-focused therapy, transfer-00:50:45
focused therapy, a00:50:48
methodological guide into Russian,00:50:51
translated by three authors. These are00:50:55
Kenberg Yeomans and Clarkin, they are actually00:50:58
on the basis of this Central idea00:51:01
proposed by Kerberg, internal dyads00:51:03
develop their approach00:51:05
is effective. working with the borderline00:51:08
level of personality organization, in contrast00:51:11
to the neurotic level with which we work00:51:13
in a classical manner, in that Freud already00:51:17
suggested to us regarding the setting of00:51:20
the couch the leading role of interpretation and00:51:23
other things,00:51:24
and therefore thank you very much for being so00:51:28
attentive to the texts,00:51:34
I honestly decided to start00:51:37
reading the article Susan Isaacs00:51:40
before reading00:51:42
Thomas's article Well, to be honest,00:51:47
Fiery did not fully master Thomas's article. But00:51:50
as far as I understood,00:51:53
this speech by Susan Isaacs at00:51:57
this psychoanalytic congress00:51:59
was like an attempt at00:52:01
reconciliation or something to show that they are not00:52:04
so strong. so there are significant00:52:07
differences that there00:52:11
in theory are little more than the client that she00:52:14
puts forward and to be honest, it was00:52:16
also surprising to me, considering that I00:52:18
read this article that everywhere there the language00:52:20
refers, as if making references, what00:52:22
Freud said00:52:24
And so, based on this, she continues00:52:26
continues00:52:28
to give his thoughts why this was the00:52:31
reason. It was precisely this speech that00:52:33
became the reason for the00:52:36
final break and the00:52:38
division into these groups. It’s00:52:41
remarkable that they started just what is00:52:45
chronologically first before00:52:49
when maybe when it will be possible to00:52:51
read after some time but perhaps00:52:54
on the one hand we We must understand with you00:52:57
that in any organization of any00:53:01
kind of any direction there are00:53:05
certain,00:53:06
some organization automatically appears,00:53:09
some political00:53:12
dimensions, some political aspects,00:53:16
and on the one hand it is clear that not every00:53:20
attempt at reconciliation Can lead to this very00:53:22
reconciliation In the end it will lead even more of00:53:26
which they accused and at least not Klein,00:53:28
who never said in her texts or her00:53:30
speeches00:53:33
that she is in opposition to any00:53:35
Freudian ideas, so she00:53:38
always tries to remind what is similar And00:53:42
Freud about this and Freud about something similar,00:53:45
however, to how Melanie Klein was00:53:48
accused of distorting00:53:52
everyone’s thought about this, that she attributes to Freud00:53:56
those ideas that he tells me about;00:53:59
moreover, you and I no longer know how00:54:03
Freud himself could have reacted to this story00:54:05
because that in 43 he was00:54:08
no longer alive. As you and I know,00:54:10
therefore, this is rather a struggle between a00:54:14
political struggle. And between00:54:17
those who want to follow Anna Freud,00:54:21
it is clear that she Freud occupied a00:54:23
privileged position in the00:54:25
psychoanalytic community due to the fact00:54:27
that she is the daughter of Freud and Melanie Klein as00:54:32
her originally further 127 years, essentially a00:54:35
direct rival in the field of child00:54:39
psychoanalysis00:54:40
That is why Anna Freud begins this00:54:44
controversy, they challenge Melanie Klein,00:54:49
they are probably Freudman as psychoanalysts, yes they00:54:52
could have assumed this, they might have wanted00:54:56
leadership in this area of child00:54:58
psychoanalysis to have some kind of primacy, and00:55:02
then such a pretty one appears an00:55:05
authoritative rival in turn with00:55:08
followers00:55:10
who might really00:55:13
want to defeat and we can00:55:15
assume that he is not Freud, this is quite00:55:18
clear. On the one hand, such an00:55:20
exclusive special position is generally in her00:55:24
memories. She says that00:55:28
this position was quite difficult for her,00:55:31
such a role because I really wanted00:55:34
to have some kind of my own00:55:37
psychoanalytic face, but not because00:55:39
Anna Freud is still Sigmund Freud and that’s00:55:43
all, on the one hand, the situation is special, on00:55:45
the other hand, with what it is connected then it is00:55:49
not very clear about ourselves and accordingly00:55:51
we no longer know how Freud00:55:53
reacted to all this But nevertheless,00:55:57
Yes, Isaacs is trying to show that00:56:00
parallels can be drawn. Freud has00:56:03
these ideas. However, reconciliation becomes00:56:06
simply impossible, that is, they, as well as about00:56:09
this article and speech, say that00:56:12
this is a distortion of Freud’s ideas, starting with the fact00:56:14
that once in an amazing00:56:17
paradoxical way, Melanie Klein was00:56:20
almost the only one who immediately00:56:22
accepted Freud’s idea and would work in00:56:26
1920 on the other side of the pleasure principle00:56:28
about the existence of the death drive,00:56:30
most psychoanalysts did not accept this idea00:56:34
and continued with it for 43 years.00:56:39
in the00:56:43
lectures about this there is so that these00:56:45
times do not waste it was not the client00:56:47
just on the basis of her clinical00:56:49
work with young children and we could00:56:52
say that those Children whose children00:56:55
were brought to her are those whom today we00:56:58
would diagnose psychiatrists with00:57:00
early childhood schizophrenia00:57:02
autism spectrum disorder children00:57:07
disturbed children neurotic in working with00:57:10
them00:57:11
Klein found confirmation of this idea about the00:57:14
existence of a death drive from the very00:57:16
beginning of life about the work of this drive in the00:57:19
psyche. Therefore, she00:57:22
agreed with her, unlike many00:57:24
other leading analysts of that time00:57:27
who were with Freud on this We00:57:29
categorically disagree; moreover,00:57:31
Klein herself did not go through her own personal00:57:35
analysis. They were close. In the sense of00:57:38
discussing various things about Karl00:57:42
Abraham, who in00:57:44
turn was engaged in treatment, attempts to understand and00:57:48
treat psychoses, what we today00:57:51
call schizophrenia are psychoses, which00:57:53
we today00:57:57
called bipolar effective disorder. would like to00:58:01
discuss them They are in many ways about what is00:58:03
similar This Freudian idea is very00:58:06
important00:58:09
unfortunately to a great extent Yes, also00:58:12
one of the tragedies of one’s own life is not enough00:58:14
Klein Abraham dies After 1800:58:18
months and a year and a half Approximately after the00:58:20
start of their joint work together00:58:23
and including Before this discussion, she has a00:58:26
training analysis, they have the opportunity to00:58:28
discuss each other’s clinical work,00:58:32
and by the time the00:58:34
discussion is about contradictions, not the first not the00:58:37
second, Abraham is already there too, therefore, there is no one to00:58:39
stand up for the small ones; Klein;00:58:43
moreover, yes. For you, too, in lectures, I wrote about this on a00:58:46
personal level. Quite00:58:51
likely certain relationships are being clarified00:58:53
because in the opposition00:58:55
to the quel not Klein it turns out that her daughter is00:58:59
one of them with her husband, they generally00:59:03
lead such as we could today00:59:06
say a persecution defined there is not enough00:59:09
damn00:59:10
the psychoanalytic community,00:59:12
accordingly, some such attempt and00:59:16
knowledge and the body just begins its00:59:18
article with In addition to what Soap is not saying about these00:59:21
accusations, Klein is that she is a00:59:25
psychoanalytic heretic,00:59:28
we also have curious words, on the00:59:31
one hand,00:59:32
psychoanalysis in relation to which Freud00:59:35
tried and dreamed all his professional life for it to be as00:59:41
scientific knowledge of the scientific paradigm and at the00:59:44
same time with us a word appears and a completely00:59:46
different one from the religious field to heretics,00:59:51
like those who are against what should be00:59:55
indisputable in one or another confession,00:59:59
begin to show themselves Well,01:00:02
actually, for example, it was not a klyandista, you01:00:04
probably already had a course on the history of psychoanalysis01:00:08
in general, or if you didn’t have it, it was01:00:12
necessary will they still be the01:00:14
first01:00:15
such figure whom they are trying to01:00:18
drive out and make01:00:21
her ideas disappear into oblivion? Freud himself may know about this;01:00:27
he broke up more than once;01:00:35
he broke up with his most outstanding students;01:00:47
which in general Jung01:00:50
leads to the creation of another direction of01:00:54
psychotherapeutic analytical01:00:56
psychology is not a psychological school, it is a01:00:58
separate one, but a psychotherapeutic direction01:01:01
further from Taranga about which we01:01:04
know practically nothing who wrote In01:01:08
connection with this, the gap is also happening, I01:01:11
recommend it to you, it is unlikely that you will see a01:01:15
particular mention of this book from01:01:17
the ram is called a birth trauma,01:01:20
respectively,01:01:21
such Freudian logic is01:01:26
to part with those of his01:01:29
students and followers who,01:01:33
we can also assume, offer01:01:36
some too01:01:38
original, too original01:01:40
concepts or01:01:43
criticize Freudian ideas of one01:01:46
kind or another, therefore there is little only01:01:49
one of you are only one in a series It is quite01:01:52
likely that Freud himself, without the01:01:56
influence of Anna Freud, might not have even01:02:00
noticed01:02:02
her existence; she did01:02:06
not particularly speak out on her ideas, only01:02:10
labeling her as some kind of01:02:13
psychoanalytic heretic. And therefore, it is quite01:02:15
possible that we understand such a conflict with you01:02:19
that conflicts are what01:02:22
lead to development,01:02:25
the stages of development, let’s remember all the stages01:02:28
that Freud suggests, if we have a01:02:31
psychological education, we01:02:33
know something about this, the development of the psyche occurs01:02:37
only in connection with and thanks to crises of01:02:41
development, that is, conflicts, their01:02:43
resolution of some kind, therefore, any01:02:46
conflict it has some consequences and it is01:02:49
quite likely that the consequence of the discussion of01:02:51
contradictions, the causes and reasons for which01:02:55
were different, the struggle for primacy, the desire for01:03:00
some kind of recognition, the acquisition of one’s own01:03:03
unique identity, led to a very important01:03:07
consequence for us, for you and me, not in the01:03:10
sense of the need to belong to01:03:12
some group as this is01:03:14
required by British psychoanalysts in the sense01:03:17
that it is likely that such01:03:19
important ideas would not have appeared and such01:03:22
schools would not have taken shape if this01:03:26
conflict between Anna Freud and Melanie01:03:29
Klein had not happened since Afrit01:03:31
most likely would have simply01:03:35
ignored melanifleina in this case she would01:03:38
hardly have01:03:39
gone out01:03:41
somewhere especially from her office and01:03:45
started writing something out or01:03:47
started articulating something through her01:03:49
students because since I already said01:03:51
the article, she’s asking everyone to write it down in language01:03:54
because it’s possible let’s have sex01:03:57
like that01:04:09
Yes, because perhaps UAZ is such a more01:04:14
structured01:04:16
way of thinking, such a greater ability to01:04:20
structurally present something in a text,01:04:23
in contrast to little I don’t swear, probably01:04:26
such a story is understandable and well-known. It happens01:04:29
that clinically very gifted people,01:04:32
unfortunately, are01:04:33
hardly able to write something in the sense of01:04:37
some articles and the opposite is also true: those01:04:41
who are very strong in01:04:44
theorizing about something01:04:46
at the same time may not be very01:04:49
successful clinical01:04:52
practitioners,01:04:54
so probably don’t curse your01:04:58
limitations. It looks01:05:03
like some kind of attempt to reconcile01:05:08
ideas and reconcile schools, but the trend is already01:05:12
different and therefore in in the end, it all01:05:15
ends in a01:05:16
split, division into different groups, but01:05:20
in any case, at least not the expulsion of01:05:23
Melanie Klein, there01:05:27
may be some other questions,01:05:41
unconscious fantasies are described several times, this is a way01:05:43
of thinking, that this is some kind of subjective01:05:45
interpretation of our experience in the world. I have a01:05:49
question:01:05:51
how much of a line is there between the01:05:55
unconscious? and conscious01:05:57
fantasies, that is, Do I01:06:00
understand correctly that the process of fantasizing itself,01:06:02
that this fantasizing01:06:04
can be unconscious, and the results of this process01:06:07
can be Quite conscious if01:06:09
it is our giving meaning to something there?01:06:22
speech That is,01:06:25
when Isaacs and the organ are discussing,01:06:28
it tells us that, as you said,01:06:31
unconscious fantasizing, that is,01:06:34
what happens in the unconscious as01:06:37
opposed to conscious fantasies, but01:06:39
we could say something about what01:06:42
we usually speak in Russian then about01:06:45
some dreams, when we01:06:48
consciously dream about something, they say that this is a01:06:50
process of a completely different kind of a01:06:53
completely different register, they are01:06:56
universal in nature, they are01:07:00
essentially just structures for the01:07:04
embodiment of one’s own and for01:07:07
something otherwise difficult to explain to01:07:10
happen in in our mental this01:07:13
means as a consequence in external life01:07:15
and maybe it will become clearer if we01:07:17
remember the stolen ones, he lists remembering01:07:20
what unconscious fantasies are01:07:24
inherent in all people, if our dreams are01:07:28
there, they can be some kind of unique,01:07:30
some kind of original subjective, then he is01:07:34
talking about objective ones01:07:36
structures And generally speaking,01:07:39
Freud already tells us something similar when he01:07:43
talks about the fact that it seems that he is01:07:46
different in his patients01:07:47
and in children and in his own and the children01:07:52
he observes, he sees01:07:56
some manifestations at about the age of 4-6 years01:07:59
identical similar01:08:02
which01:08:04
could be described as something that has01:08:08
long been described for thousands of years. And back in the form of a01:08:15
person who has a classical education and is01:08:18
knowledgeable in generally very01:08:22
fond of the ancient classical culture of01:08:25
languages, including the ancient ones who knew He01:08:28
sees something and remembers what is01:08:32
similar to him I read about something similar When I01:08:35
read the myth of Oedipus by ancient Greek01:08:38
authors who also describe then01:08:41
something inherent in people that suddenly01:08:44
suddenly Begins for some reason to appear and01:08:48
manifest itself as a question about reality and01:08:51
how to01:08:52
psychoanalysis In general,01:08:55
since Freud And how do they find out about it01:09:00
how the differences between the sexes are what01:09:03
precedes and, like, in a complex its01:09:07
unfolding, how the differences between the sexes01:09:10
are recognized by children who have added01:09:12
absolutely never any other animals and01:09:17
anything happening between them of a01:09:19
sexual nature, they definitely did not see01:09:22
any Soviet kindergarten, these01:09:24
children did not go and in rows and not01:09:28
differentiated by gender on the potty,01:09:30
no one planted them and there was a quiet hour when all01:09:33
this was discovered and followed, they01:09:35
definitely didn’t have it and they never saw their mother’s head in the bath01:09:38
And their dad was also never01:09:41
naked like theirs and they have01:09:44
everything the same thing Yes, and essentially Freud01:09:46
But then, in connection with his01:09:48
conflict with the filming and their01:09:52
separation,01:09:53
the break that occurs, he begins to bypass01:09:57
these topics, begins to bypass these topics,01:10:00
although the01:10:03
so-called archaic01:10:05
Legacy appears in his works, that is, what is01:10:08
transferred from the unconscious to the next01:10:12
unconscious what makes all of us people of01:10:16
all eras similar01:10:20
and go into the complex while part of01:10:23
this archaic heritage at some01:10:26
point it begins to manifest itself and for approximately01:10:29
everyone at the same age01:10:31
it begins to manifest itself further and in01:10:34
this, in my opinion the usefulness of studying01:10:38
the history of psychoanalysis further is the desire01:10:42
to be in the Field of materialist01:10:46
positivist science, it faces01:10:50
great complexity, that is, then we would01:10:52
have to tell you that,01:10:55
firstly, the search for some kind of material01:10:57
substrate of some kind of carrier01:11:00
unconsciously where it is located01:11:03
territorially01:11:04
what in which organ bodily Also takes01:11:09
place then we would have to01:11:12
tell you that01:11:14
in this unconscious there is some kind of01:11:16
hereditary transmission and something like that01:11:19
begins to work and is launched at01:11:22
certain moments of our life,01:11:25
manifesting itself not in consciousness but in01:11:29
our experiences in how we01:11:31
begin to build relationships and in desires01:11:36
Freud talks about it this way and that, but01:11:39
maybe the problem is that the structure of DNA had01:11:42
not yet been discovered at that time,01:11:45
nothing is known about this, although01:11:47
today it is unknown where it01:11:49
could be conditionally in in which genes01:11:53
this or that is localized, let's say the launch of a01:11:58
type of complex, some Genes are responsible,01:12:01
most likely we will not know anything about this01:12:02
since genetic scientists do01:12:06
not ask these questions on the other hand. It is likely that01:12:08
it is generally difficult01:12:10
to determine, if at all possible, but then01:12:14
we will offer some kind of analogy conditionally01:12:17
When in our genes are01:12:19
programmed that at a certain01:12:21
age, yes, there around the age of01:12:23
11-12 years, our01:12:27
endocrine system begins01:12:28
to function differently than before,01:12:30
those hormones01:12:33
that were not produced before begin to be produced and01:12:37
secondary sexual characteristics begin to appear,01:12:39
other bodily changes01:12:43
begin to occur in us which01:12:45
turn us from a child into an adult, an01:12:47
adult individual, that is,01:12:50
accordingly, the answer to the question: Where01:12:52
were these hormones, they01:12:55
were not anywhere They are01:12:58
coded, programmed that01:13:01
exactly at a certain age this will01:13:02
happen in some genes, probably01:13:06
something similar to these about that01:13:11
structures of one of which is to01:13:13
go into the complex. And generally speaking, we01:13:15
could say that01:13:18
in answer to your question, that go to the01:13:21
complex is precisely one of these01:13:23
unconscious fantasies,01:13:25
no one consciously fantasizes about this,01:13:27
and the myth of Oedipus itself is not about that,01:13:30
of course Oedipus lay on the bank of the river the01:13:36
same day and thought how01:13:40
great it would be to kill his own father and01:13:43
marry his own mother. I’ll01:13:44
go and make the fairy tale01:13:48
become a reality. That’s why01:13:51
we have Go along and in different01:13:55
variations in the future01:13:57
this is a tragedy of something this happens,01:14:03
the Greeks talk about fate,01:14:06
fate Go by is that this must01:14:09
happen01:14:10
regardless of whether he wants it01:14:13
or whether he doesn’t want it, it will also happen in01:14:16
such a way that he will01:14:19
not become conscious. He will find himself in a certain situation01:14:24
that is outside of him, the desire is outside of his control01:14:28
is placed and Fred says that it looks like01:14:33
something similar is starting to happen to children around the age of 4-6 years,01:14:37
but none of this is some kind of01:14:39
conscious decision or choice, not01:14:42
some kind of dream, something begins to influence01:14:46
us, he tells us Yes,01:14:48
the unconscious influences, but little does not damn further,01:14:51
the Susans continue to speak after them and It seems01:14:54
that this is precisely an unconscious01:14:57
fantasy. As you said in the question, something01:15:01
that01:15:02
manifests itself in addition to consciousness but at the01:15:06
same time greatly influences our external life,01:15:09
others01:15:11
list such classic fantasies,01:15:14
for example, unconscious fantasy. That01:15:16
is, this structure forming,01:15:19
for example, castration fantasy01:15:22
castration fantasy further01:15:25
French analysts, in particular, will be01:15:27
active on this topic of castration, the same01:15:30
Francoise Daltou, which is,01:15:33
in addition to so not cadet psychoanalysis,01:15:36
books about how the psyche is structured, in01:15:40
particular the book unconscious01:15:42
body image where she concepts of castration from01:15:46
exclusively01:15:47
phallic castration to level of01:15:51
genitality spreads much more01:15:54
widely and says that the first01:15:57
castration, the transition from stage to stage of01:16:00
Freud's,01:16:01
is defined precisely by the experience of01:16:04
castration; this is the first castration that01:16:06
we encounter; oral01:16:10
castration; weaning; then we have anal castration in01:16:13
toilet training; and then the01:16:15
same Freud's discovery of the01:16:18
threat of loss of the penis in boys and,01:16:23
from Freud's point of view,01:16:26
girls' experiences of their own castration01:16:29
due to the absence of just the penis01:16:31
Dalto says that the first castration is01:16:33
weaning, and if we are from the ram,01:16:36
which turned out to be completely forgotten, he01:16:38
remembered, he moves even further in the sense01:16:43
earlier01:16:45
ontologically speaking of the fact that it seems that the01:16:47
first castration is our birth,01:16:50
castration as the imposition of01:16:54
restrictions on omnipotence01:16:58
on the manifestation of our desire when I01:17:01
get everything I want is not01:17:04
limited by anything when I want to the extent that I01:17:08
want as a sarality while01:17:10
breastfeeding occurs No01:17:13
special efforts to01:17:15
independently search for01:17:18
consumption and there is no need to take food in01:17:23
such a good situation, the child is hungry.01:17:26
He made it clear to his mother that he was hungry; his mother01:17:30
provided him with a breast full of milk,01:17:33
which will satisfy all his needs,01:17:37
and a certain process will ensure01:17:40
breastfeeding; when weaning from the01:17:44
breast, castration occurs, imposing01:17:47
restrictions on this omnipotence, that is,01:17:50
I only wanted I was already given, I have to01:17:53
do something else additional,01:17:55
but probably birth01:17:58
and if we imagine such a01:18:01
prosperous and intrauterine01:18:03
existence is an01:18:05
ideal state, therefore all these01:18:08
attempts01:18:09
to comprehend, including various01:18:14
religious ideas of mystical01:18:18
experiences, as an expression of the oceanic01:18:20
feeling, that is, what We are experiencing01:18:23
when we01:18:24
are inside the mother’s body and01:18:28
if everything is fine,01:18:31
everything we want is there, even in contrast01:18:35
to the pre-oral story when we are01:18:38
breastfed, that is, after all, there is01:18:39
a child there, he should already01:18:44
show at least some kind of activity of his own if he is not he wo01:18:48
n’t be able to suckle yet And in utero everything is01:18:51
fully provided for, he does01:18:53
n’t need to do anything there at all, on the other hand,01:18:56
if it doesn’t happen, then we won’t be born, we won’t be01:19:01
able to live like01:19:05
modern medical possibilities, other01:19:07
yes In any case, with extremely rare01:19:10
exceptions, even some then difficult01:19:13
situations will appear in any case and Mom01:19:16
will remain alive in any case, and if there is a01:19:18
more01:19:19
natural sense, imagine such a natural01:19:22
story if the child does not01:19:27
want to be born because he feels01:19:29
too good there. He does not want to experience this castration01:19:31
and the mother does not want to give birth to him01:19:34
because that she is also very good, for example, in01:19:37
our current realities, this is when01:19:41
a pregnancy is carried beyond term, it also seems like it’s01:19:43
time to give birth,01:19:45
the woman wears everything And wears01:19:49
then01:19:50
it would lead to the death of both01:19:53
the experience if the woman cannot01:19:57
give birth, the child cannot be born, she does not01:20:00
want to give birth, he does not want to be born then01:20:02
both die, respectively, this is01:20:05
castration then in an amazing way01:20:08
also the living conditions of experiencing01:20:12
this crisis of this first before the conflict01:20:16
inside so well I don’t want to go anywhere but01:20:20
I need to go outside because life is further there, life01:20:23
inside the mother cannot01:20:26
continue And then the first conflict And01:20:29
probably some first unconscious a01:20:31
fantasy that in many ways01:20:35
can manifest itself in the future,01:20:37
respectively, everything is correct, the idea of the window, you01:20:41
very accurately voiced it, following Aiza,01:20:44
little does not The client says that it seems01:20:47
that unconscious fantasies are what01:20:51
structures the unconscious, this is how01:20:54
the unconscious works, these attempts01:20:57
to understand And what is actually there in this01:20:59
unconscious address Freud, on the one01:21:02
hand, tells us there is repressed01:21:05
at first, he believes So something that was01:21:08
outside conditionally01:21:10
being unacceptable begins to be01:21:14
repressed into the unconscious a little later,01:21:17
again there01:21:19
will not be much further development of these ideas because it is01:21:21
too close to what Jung is doing this01:21:24
brings psychoanalysis too close to something that Freud01:21:28
really wants to get away from, in fact, that’s why he01:21:31
ends the relationship too close, we01:21:35
then find ourselves in the area of the non-01:21:37
scientific by scientific methods, not01:21:42
confirmed as the area of Well then,01:21:44
the mystical, so the area of religious01:21:47
ideas of various01:21:50
attempts to understand what is there And Freud in order for the01:21:53
mechanism of repression to explain,01:21:56
he says it seems like there is some kind of01:21:59
repressed one01:22:00
to which then further in the individual01:22:03
psyche all this begins to be01:22:05
attracted from the outside, what is this first01:22:08
repressed from where and the only thing he01:22:11
tells us about is that it has never01:22:13
been conscious,01:22:16
so the question arises what is01:22:19
it what is it like, what does01:22:22
it look like and don’t screw it up? Yes, and such an01:22:25
innovative idea is that it seems to be an01:22:28
unconscious fantasy in this sense.01:22:30
It does not at all contradict Freud,01:22:33
who himself told us that with01:22:36
drives directly, we never01:22:39
deal only with certain virgin attractions,01:22:43
which is why Thank you for01:22:45
translating so carefully, since very01:22:49
often the attraction to life is translated as the01:22:53
conviction of death with the pretext and For us01:22:57
in Russian, this then means that the subject01:23:00
plays some active role in this, I am01:23:05
attracted to life or I am death But in fact01:23:10
in fact, the translation option is not entirely into01:23:14
Russian and unsuccessful, since rather we are01:23:17
talking about the attraction of life and in the treatment01:23:20
of death, that is, we, as subjects,01:23:22
find ourselves rather in a passive position and01:23:25
something many times superior to us that01:23:28
attracts us to itself and then the individual01:23:31
psyche turns out to be the field of this01:23:34
conflict between two01:23:37
drives that are superior to life and01:23:40
death. You could even write it with a capital letter then,01:23:44
and accordingly there was01:23:47
a certain one telling us that yes, then these01:23:50
drives that cannot be accommodated in the01:23:54
individual psyche, much less01:23:56
can they be conscious in any way, they are somehow01:23:58
in the psyche must be presented and it01:24:01
just tells us that they are01:24:02
presented, they see these01:24:04
unconscious fantasies that are universal01:24:06
for all people,01:24:09
protection from them, and so on, etc. It is they who are01:24:12
conscious fantasies of themselves and01:24:14
she manifests them over two01:24:20
sets of these fantasies, the first01:24:23
set is paranoid schizoid01:24:25
fantasies01:24:27
like since those that we have find their01:24:31
embodiment in these fantasies and bad01:24:34
breasts are good breasts the01:24:36
second type of fantasy that01:24:39
interests her further Freud already wrote a lot01:24:42
about castration wrote about01:24:44
oedipal he wrote about the parental01:24:46
couple there then later other analysts01:24:48
will write go depressive about the01:24:52
unification of the already holistic the object of this01:24:54
integral breast which was01:24:58
damaged at the previous stage of communication by attacks01:25:02
on it01:25:04
and at the same time she tells us they are not01:25:07
the only ones01:25:09
that are the ones that she discovers and01:25:13
opens01:25:14
therefore further to A from the action that the01:25:18
body discusses they talk about what is01:25:20
similar to unconscious fantasy is01:25:23
exactly what underlies how it is01:25:27
structured, what01:25:31
the unconscious contains, and then they say01:25:34
that this is the basis of mental life in general,01:25:37
that nothing else simply exists,01:25:40
the basis of thinking,01:25:42
then we have peonies and all the rest,01:25:50
some final final question01:25:52
to complete I01:25:56
have shifted a little bit Confusion01:25:58
occurred over time some01:26:03
or while Can I ask a question Good01:26:06
evening01:26:08
then it turns out that this is an01:26:10
unconscious fantasy, it is not static,01:26:14
it is dynamic Well, that’s how I01:26:18
imagined until this moment that we have01:26:21
some kind of something- then what we have,01:26:24
for example, is loaded with an effect and we repress it01:26:27
unconsciously, then it is resolved by the affect,01:26:28
it becomes static, as if it freezes.01:26:31
But in this case it turns out If it’s a01:26:34
fantasy, that is, it’s some kind of01:26:36
action that happens in the unconscious, the01:26:39
action happens01:26:42
wonderfully,01:26:46
then due to what it turns out this01:26:49
action is how it is fueled01:26:52
Well, due to what does it happen, what is it01:26:55
fueled by And what drives then01:26:57
directs if this is so If I01:26:59
understood correctly thank you thank you for the question You01:27:03
just very much01:27:04
expressed01:27:06
in the Klinian01:27:08
version this idea about what01:27:11
unconscious fantasy is When What he writes to us about01:27:14
this is a process, and that is, it is01:27:16
something dynamic. That is why Klein01:27:20
does not speak about stages of development,01:27:22
unlike Freud, as if we went through01:27:25
this certain age, resolved01:27:27
some kind of conflict that was relevant for this age,01:27:30
and forgot about it forever01:27:34
they have moved on to the next stage somewhere, or01:27:36
if they haven’t, then she is in some kind of01:27:39
static state somewhere01:27:42
unconsciously then she is in a01:27:45
different way, it’s all always alive,01:27:48
she manifests herself all the time, which is01:27:50
why Paranoia on the schizoid position the01:27:52
depressive position of the one in between01:27:55
all the time all people move again and again the01:27:59
performance may be a little different as01:28:02
remembering the myths01:28:03
antifreight tells us there is some kind of01:28:06
folk representation on some kind of01:28:09
folk myth there was a folk myth further than it then the Greek01:28:11
tragedians begin to rework some of01:28:14
their version to suggest the development of events01:28:17
atoms01:28:19
their own what -that version01:28:22
further, some moreover, this01:28:27
manifests itself again and again in every new01:28:30
human life in every new era.01:28:32
If we look as if somehow01:28:36
different and today we01:28:38
take some cultural products there, we01:28:41
can also find the same structure, the01:28:43
same myth about Oedipus, still the same01:28:46
murder of the father and Marriage, relationship with the01:28:50
mother With the mother figure, that01:28:52
is, these proto structures have some01:28:55
limited volume And what moves them, what01:28:58
gives them movement, the answer to this question is01:29:00
the unconscious,01:29:03
that is, thus through the01:29:05
individual psyche manifests itself01:29:09
unfolds unconsciously01:29:12
what drives the DNA structure Why at01:29:16
some point it starts01:29:18
[music]01:29:20
to work so that the01:29:22
secretion of hormones changes what moves it01:29:30
Genes that are responsible in turn the01:29:34
energetic component for the01:29:36
energetic component of this process01:29:39
Similarly here we could say what01:29:41
drives01:29:43
the unconscious main the energy01:29:45
of which01:29:46
has a swan-like character The01:29:49
energetic component The01:29:51
energetic component of the unfolding of the01:29:56
individual psychic which in turn01:29:59
is always conflicting is the energy of the01:30:01
life drive is the energy of the01:30:05
death drive that is what Freud is doing with01:30:07
attempts to understand what in the work of01:30:11
1920 precisely in the direction of the01:30:13
pleasure principle when she discovers the01:30:15
passion for death is its own01:30:18
energy, which can surpass in an01:30:23
amazing way, it would seem, the01:30:25
swan-like energy of the attraction of life.01:30:28
Well, although further further01:30:31
works of French analysts, Andrei01:30:34
Green in particular, will write to us about this01:30:37
and say that it seems that there are also01:30:40
third variants of drives, the so-called01:30:45
attraction of separation, in contrast to the01:30:48
attraction of life and deaths which are all the01:30:51
same this and the other for unification are01:30:56
directed this is a certain one at the object then01:30:58
present Yes, he also drives the third01:31:01
therefore the unconscious drives01:31:05
we could say01:31:07
in the religious paradigm any is01:31:11
said not any01:31:14
in many in many it is said that the01:31:18
meaning of human life lies in01:31:22
so that the divine can manifest itself through him.01:31:28
Similarly, in our paradigm we01:31:31
could say that the meaning of01:31:34
human life then individual concrete01:31:37
life is so that01:31:39
the unconscious can manifest itself through it. Here many01:31:41
very questions appear01:31:43
Moses he tourist religion01:31:45
Freudian work you will still study01:31:48
read many01:31:50
important interesting points01:31:53
Freud's conflictual relationship with the01:31:58
confession of which he, being a Jew, by01:32:01
definition belongs to Judaism and01:32:05
that is why he01:32:08
tries to analyze the figure of Moses in a certain01:32:10
way and interprets it in many ways with01:32:13
these conflictual relationships, it is precisely01:32:15
his break with Jung that occurs01:32:17
and at the same time we can see what is01:32:21
likely01:32:23
something similar appears if we01:32:27
try to answer such fundamental01:32:28
questions as the one you asked, what01:32:31
drives What is the root cause, something01:32:35
moves, let's try to understand what And01:32:38
what exactly moves here the answers are very01:32:41
similar as the answers are similar, yes, that is,01:32:44
then the unconscious moves and the goal of01:32:46
the unconscious is to manifest through the01:32:48
individual psyche, as modern01:32:51
physicists tell us that there are01:32:54
two largely01:32:57
opposite, contradictory01:32:59
hypotheses about the origin of the Universe. The01:33:02
Big Bang Theory and String Theory,01:33:05
if we ask the question: What started01:33:08
this process, regardless of whether it is like this01:33:11
or like that, then a01:33:14
number of modern physicists will tell us about the fact01:33:17
that there is probably some kind of root cause01:33:19
that is very similar to this01:33:23
is interpreted in various religious01:33:26
directions,01:33:28
something01:33:30
triggered the01:33:32
emergence of01:33:34
the Universe similar here we are talking about01:33:38
the unconscious about what01:33:40
drives then it because its desire to01:33:43
manifest itself through the individual psyche01:33:50
can it be some kind of higher power it01:33:53
turns out also some kind of unnamed01:33:57
higher power01:33:58
again. That is, if we say this, I01:34:03
mean01:34:05
religious ideas of such01:34:09
esoteric01:34:12
internal, at a certain level,01:34:14
understanding of order, if we01:34:18
abstract from such simpler to01:34:22
mass ideas about the nature of01:34:25
the divine, then by and large We are01:34:28
everywhere We will see that there, too, we are talking about a certain01:34:30
force01:34:31
that is01:34:33
embodied, the01:34:35
intention of which to get the appearance01:34:38
to become manifested somehow to be embodied and,01:34:40
accordingly, here we use a01:34:42
different word but we mean that exactly. It01:34:45
seems that Freud did not want to draw01:34:49
these parallels, probably01:34:52
in many ways obvious, for various reasons since01:34:54
physicists talk about what was launched by a01:34:58
certain force, there was a certain primary01:35:01
intention,01:35:02
approximately the same thing,01:35:05
for example, in Judaism in cabareda, we can01:35:10
find very similar things, that is, not01:35:13
anthropomortization,01:35:15
anthropomorphic ideas about God,01:35:17
since01:35:19
[music]01:35:21
they are like some kind of super superior to01:35:26
a person, the night is similar to something like him,01:35:29
respectively,01:35:31
this is a certain force as in the work itself.01:35:34
On the other side of the pleasure principle,01:35:35
Freud says that the individual01:35:39
psyche is not a field of01:35:43
conflict between two forces that are superior to01:35:46
humans: one force of01:35:48
the life drive, the other force of the death drive,01:35:55
such are ours interesting global01:35:58
fundamental questions have arisen, therefore,01:36:01
and Freud's description of the unconscious is in01:36:04
many ways similar to the description of the01:36:08
divine nature of the attempt, the01:36:12
unconscious itself tells us we never01:36:14
deal only with some of its01:36:16
manifestations01:36:17
the unconscious there is no time the01:36:19
unconscious01:36:22
opposites coexist there are no01:36:26
conflicts between anything01:36:30
the unconscious is nowhere and everywhere01:36:33
at the same time We cannot localize in any way01:36:35
in time and space to us.01:36:38
It is clear, moreover, we cannot01:36:41
comprehend it directly with the capabilities of01:36:43
our human mind because01:36:45
our human mind is unconsciously01:36:47
significantly superior,01:36:49
we can only try to01:36:53
notice some manifestations of it, detect it and01:36:59
somehow deal with them to work in order to01:37:01
help people who suffer01:37:05
from His manifestations,01:37:07
similar to the description of the01:37:11
divine,01:37:13
similar, but attempts, yes Again, Freud, I01:37:18
still01:37:19
get out of this,01:37:21
my reasons for this, is to get out of this01:37:25
religious field,01:37:28
such a positivist science. However, we01:37:30
are returning again as I myself am01:37:33
forced return to the fact that01:37:37
we do not know what we do not by the methods of science,01:37:40
we cannot conduct a scientific01:37:43
experiment01:37:44
not01:37:47
clinically in an office there, we cannot01:37:50
provide01:37:55
modern science with01:37:56
the results that it would require from01:37:59
us so that psychoanalysis can be01:38:02
recognized as scientific knowledge, but01:38:04
maybe already Today we01:38:06
have much more freedom in this01:38:08
regard and, in fact, if this is01:38:11
necessary or we can01:38:13
afford to do what we do without01:38:15
proving to01:38:17
various other sciences that we are among them.01:38:23
Thank you very much for your01:38:26
most interesting questions. I am very glad that many of01:38:30
you And We managed to read the article and01:38:33
watch the lectures, and then I believe that01:38:36
next year we will meet again,01:38:39
we will talk about limited patients01:38:41
and work with them, and I wish you01:38:45
further success in your studies and, most01:38:47
importantly, study with pleasure,01:38:49
try to get maximum pleasure from01:38:52
this, I want to receive it.01:38:56
Thank you Olga Sergeevna Thank youDescription:
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