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00:00:18
[music]
00:00:28
Hello Live review from
00:00:31
Belt, Vladimir Karamurza, sentenced to 25 years in
00:00:33
prison, was taken to a
00:00:35
maximum security colony in Omsk and
00:00:38
immediately placed in solitary confinement. We will talk more about this
00:00:40
with the editor-in-chief of the media zone,
00:00:42
Sergei Smirnov. Hello Sergei,
00:00:43
good afternoon, why about the transfer stage a
00:00:48
prisoner from one point to another is
00:00:49
always spoken of as the most dangerous
00:00:52
dangerous time of his imprisonment Well, for
00:00:56
several reasons, the first thing is that he is
00:00:58
lost from sight, we cannot come to him at
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some point Yes, the lawyer
00:01:02
cannot go in, he cannot find out what’s wrong with him
00:01:04
is happening And so this is the main thing that we
00:01:07
don’t know where a specific person is when we
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didn’t know where we could for how long we
00:01:11
didn’t know where the feed was but for a couple of weeks Yes,
00:01:13
he was only able to tell after a couple of weeks
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where he was this is the main
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reason of course and the second is a very
00:01:19
tiring trip in any case,
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because
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the transfer of a new cell there and new
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conditions is always a very tiring
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stage in Russia, it’s always very tiring And
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somehow this procedure
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is done consciously Judging by the information, he visited pre-trial
00:01:37
detention centers in several cities, he visited
00:01:39
Samara somewhere else before he got to
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Omsk, this is an absolutely standard
00:01:43
procedure and logistical decisions that are so strange from our point of
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view are simply a
00:01:48
feature of the FSIN system and for non-
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political matters they often transport prisoners in approximately the
00:01:54
same way, the fact
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that he immediately
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ended up in the shed, which tells us
00:02:01
it’s difficult to say that O what does this say
00:02:03
right away because we don’t know the reason, but
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we can only speculate here, we do
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n’t even know the specific reason, well,
00:02:10
how is it all built, but this
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rather indicates increased
00:02:14
attention? And we understand that
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people are prisoners in the solitary confinement when it is
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really necessary to the authorities of the colony, if
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the authorities of the colony need this, there is a
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reason, they will find absolutely any
00:02:27
button turned incorrectly 2
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minutes earlier, stood up for the fact that in ordinary
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life they do not pay attention, but I
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suspect that this is due to the fact that
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they received a signal from Moscow, we saw this
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as it happened with Alexey Navalny received
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a signal to create special conditions that are not the
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most comfortable, so we are
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waiting for the first time. Does this mean that his
00:02:52
conditions will automatically be more
00:02:54
lenient than, for example, those of Alexei
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Navalny? Well, I wouldn’t even talk about the
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soft conditions of a maximum security prison for
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25 years, I wouldn’t like to use the word
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soft, but talk about the difference is the first time
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there or the third time and the special regime
00:03:10
that Alexei Navalny will have soon,
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yes, but we understand that it is unlikely that an appeal will
00:03:13
cancel his special regime. There, the difference is not
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so significant in the conditions of
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detention to talk about a softer
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regime, the wrong regime is strict, very
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tough, just Alexey Navalny will have
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even more restrictions,
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formally these restrictions. A little less of
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a problem is that, like
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Alexei Navalny, if
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the head of the colony wants to create additional restrictions, it will not be
00:03:39
difficult for him; if he needs to create a
00:03:41
special, maximum uncomfortable regime,
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they will create it. Vladimir Karamurza
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Apparently, he was also poisoned and Judging by the
00:03:50
information that we have, perhaps
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even more than once, the
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state of his health, as reported by
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relatives and lawyers, is quite difficult.
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Does this matter for the system; it
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will somehow
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take care that he does not get worse;
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this is also a question. It’s not entirely clear. what is
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in their head and in general, to be honest,
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talking about Karamurz should be done in the context of the
00:04:14
term that they gave the yoke for 25 years, it
00:04:18
looks like I’m just sorry, but even against the
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background of Alexei Navalny, you have numerous
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criminal cases that are somehow completely
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limitless, the first time you give 25 years
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under the state article changes, this
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looks like some kind of special direct control
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and a special decision in this regard. I don’t
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think that health will become
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some kind of important factor for them. It’s another question, but
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on the other hand, I’m not sure that
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the authorities there will want to deliberately worsen their
00:04:47
health status and will not pay
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attention It seems to me
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they just had a lot of opportunities
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to demonstrate this before, but they do
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n’t provide help, they help me, they let me
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go, but it
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seems to me that they won’t deliberately make things worse
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right away, that’s another matter. Maybe they
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just mean the conditions are difficult. The
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Omsk colony is very far away; you won’t be able to
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go to see him on a date. Yes and
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you convey you convey Everything will be normal,
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but that means there is still
00:05:19
less control than in closer colonies. Well, they
00:05:23
mean that it will get worse and
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will get worse. I just don’t think that
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health is something for them. This is a topic
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that they are very actively discussing.
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By the way, we see this Alexei Navalny,
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too, in the sense that Yes, there was a hunger strike
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then he fought for a long time. Well, fortunately,
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lately Despite all
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the fears, We don’t see any deterioration.
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So I don’t think that the issue of
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health will become the key one. Sergei When you
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hear about the
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supposed negotiations about exchange and so on,
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how seriously do you take this
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information,
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but I’ll probably be an optimist here in the
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sense that it’s quite strange for me
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because I always look rather gloomily,
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but it seems to me that in any case, the very
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fact of such conversations personally makes me happy,
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I’ll be honest because that well, in the conditions of
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19-25 years old it looks completely hopeless
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and when
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there are potentially some contacts and the
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possibility of exchange, then I think this is a
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good sign that Despite all
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the denials and so on, that there are some
00:06:28
contacts, at least
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the options for which they are being considered
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they will sit for 25 years because it
00:06:35
looks like an absolutely monster 25 years yes And
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when you have no hope of
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release This I think is also
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very depressing in addition And
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these negotiations information about some
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negotiations and contacts still gives
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some hope and of course I’m here
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if there was some kind of exchange, something else, I
00:06:55
would be very happy. Let's now move on to the
00:06:57
specific names of the masses
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of political prisoners who, apparently,
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are now in Russia, if you believe
00:07:03
media reports, if you just do the math, it
00:07:07
turns out that several hundred people
00:07:10
will now be convicted there openly
00:07:15
criminal cases regarding some kind of
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Let's call it Guerrilla
00:07:19
activity Is it really on such a
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scale or are law enforcement
00:07:24
agencies here too What is called drawing statistics for themselves,
00:07:27
this is not the easiest question, including
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because we don’t have a lot of information
00:07:31
about this, but from what we can
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know Let's start with the fact that the authorities have
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a large Yes, some kind of partisan
00:07:39
activity. They combine different
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actions, which is also important, and in us this
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evokes an attitude as some kind of single
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activity. There are stories of sabotage on
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railways. Yes, first of all, arson of
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relay cabinets, there are attacks on military registration and enlistment offices,
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which were still a little earlier now, to
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a lesser extent, there are other
00:08:03
related articles that the authorities combine under the
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article terrorism, sometimes the
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impression is created of some kind of terrorist
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threat, but more often than not these matters of
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capitalism are not related to a
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specific example, these are military registration and enlistment offices, but not
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only for words for commentary, if
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we talk specifically about the most radical
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actions regarding
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real cabinets and arson, I think that
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Despite the fact that the case is not so
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many, but at one time we counted 60
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cases, now there are more of them, but it’s probably up to
00:08:33
100 cases, probably no more, I think there’s
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different information inside even these cases
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I think some groups
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act Quite
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sincerely This I think By the way this is a
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minority, a completely radical
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minority of the most radical views
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from the extreme left is the extreme right But
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this is just a completely minority even within
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these cases I think in several cases
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some people do it for money this is
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also quite important in in the sense that yes,
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and they name different reasons,
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I completely know the case, according to one of the versions, a large
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group told them, well, they explained that
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this is paid for by a company that
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deals with lines of cabinets in order to
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get insurance.
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Well, that is, I am sure that the authorities, of course, will
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not say that this is not so, they will
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prove to the court But this looks
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like it has
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some explanations, and the third option,
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which we don’t yet know how
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many of these options there are, all the cases are closed, we do
00:09:32
n’t know anything, these are unknown people. I won’t
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name a single name of people who are
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imprisoned under the article of sabotage because they are
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public affairs, they are not in contact
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I think some of the journalists did these
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things that are
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called provocations when some
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person comes out and offers money and
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says what needs to be done, while this is an
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employee of the special services, he records all this
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and
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Yes, they detain you in place When
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they detain you in place This is the first
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sign that you are too lazy to detain the closet on
00:10:03
the spot This is very suspicious, there are still
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some cases that I also have
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great doubts about their connection with
00:10:11
provocations, these are cases
00:10:12
Also on terrorism but related, for
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example, to the region of free Russia
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Freedom of Russia and some person writes to
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someone in Russia that I represent
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The Legion needs some kind of help there,
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people don’t enter into correspondence, that’s
00:10:27
enough for an article about participation in a
00:10:30
terrorist organization, even
00:10:32
replying exactly to the message, well, in general, it’s
00:10:34
important to look at who’s writing, if
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it’s written by representatives of a real
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organization, then it’s not enough. But if it’s an
00:10:42
operative officer, he’s of course
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initially lays down all the communication and all the
00:10:47
answers so that later this criminal case will be
00:10:49
more convenient for him.
00:10:51
Yes, and send it to
00:10:55
court. Well, seriously, we have seen this in various
00:10:57
cases before. Yes, we can remember the new
00:11:00
Greatness, the classic story of how it all
00:11:02
happened, but now it’s just less well-
00:11:05
known cases
00:11:07
We know about these cases, there are many less repressions
00:11:09
and others are not the most famous
00:11:11
people, this is very sad. In addition,
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the last thing I want to say is this is a
00:11:16
large and huge group of cases, and the
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cases of the gods of change stand out separately,
00:11:21
we talked about Vladimir Kormurza,
00:11:23
but the case of high treason is much more more, there are a
00:11:26
lot of
00:11:28
criminal cases, well, a lot on the scale of
00:11:31
treason. Although a few a week is a
00:11:34
very, very large amount of donations from the Ukrainian
00:11:37
army, and I honestly have no doubt
00:11:39
that there is a lot of room here. They have a lot of space
00:11:42
because I have no doubt that they will
00:11:45
prove nothing at all. know
00:11:46
because the case in the area of ​​change is closed
00:11:48
We won’t even know the details and
00:11:51
some kind of donation is enough. I
00:11:52
suspect that the fund will be used by someone else to
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initiate a criminal case for high
00:11:57
treason, this is a separate topic, these cases are also
00:12:00
enough and we are sure that not all of the
00:12:03
defendants are involved I know Sergey, we saw
00:12:07
several messages, sometimes even
00:12:08
recorded on video, from pensioners
00:12:11
or pensioners or other gullible
00:12:13
people who were called by people who
00:12:15
usually introduce themselves there to the
00:12:17
Sberbank security service and then they
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went and set something on fire. What are these
00:12:23
cases, what do I know about them, we we know
00:12:26
quite a bit about them And we can only
00:12:27
make assumptions here We don’t know who
00:12:29
these people are Why are they calling we can too
00:12:32
Judging terrorism then it’s more interesting, but
00:12:35
it’s interesting that to what extent We checked
00:12:38
the information on one of the cases Terrorism
00:12:40
is
00:12:42
always a local question, just questions about
00:12:46
federalism, federalism in such things
00:12:48
sometimes works, the center has not yet given a
00:12:50
clear order Under what article to
00:12:52
incriminate Yes, these actions and
00:12:55
articles are different somewhere, as a rule, this is
00:12:58
hooliganism,
00:12:59
admission of guilt and all the others, not the
00:13:02
longest term, somewhere
00:13:03
damage to property in some options and
00:13:07
terrorism Maybe it depends on which
00:13:09
employees And what department
00:13:10
is considering it There is also a dispute between the
00:13:13
department because hooliganism is the
00:13:15
Ministry of Internal Affairs
00:13:17
Terrorism is the vision of the FSB Yes And by the way,
00:13:20
maybe both here and there
00:13:23
and as far as I understand There was a case when a
00:13:25
criminal case was not initiated Then
00:13:27
there is this too Looks quite normal
00:13:30
Logical, but as far as I understand orders
00:13:32
from Moscow There are no orders on these matters
00:13:35
There is no practice, so each region
00:13:37
interprets its side after all I
00:13:40
think there the issue of terrorism is less than
00:13:42
hooliganism, damage to property, recently
00:13:45
there was a special report on Russia which was
00:13:48
presented at the UN, to what extent do you
00:13:51
think this speleological report reflects the
00:13:54
situation with depressions in Russia, to
00:13:57
what extent is the report objective? Well, the report
00:14:00
is objective if we say because the
00:14:02
main problems recorded there are
00:14:05
certainly the problem reported and in large
00:14:07
international reports, in any case, you are
00:14:08
unlikely to include everything in it what
00:14:10
is happening you will get a general
00:14:12
idea it is not necessary to do a report
00:14:15
and write a big book after all, the format of
00:14:17
the report is a little different but the main
00:14:19
position was recorded there it was said
00:14:22
that repressions in Russia have intensified it was
00:14:24
said that repressions in Russia, which is
00:14:26
quite important for international
00:14:27
organizations, began a long time ago before the war
00:14:29
This is a rather important emphasis because it is
00:14:32
not clear to everyone That there were mass
00:14:35
anti-war protests of repression against
00:14:37
mass repression What kind of memes are there
00:14:41
repressions against anti-accident activists? There are
00:14:44
many articles of the Criminal Code, that is, the
00:14:46
main points are stated absolutely
00:14:47
correct. It’s quite difficult to argue here;
00:14:50
another thing is that we You can always
00:14:53
add something to develop any idea from this
00:14:55
report and simply explain what
00:14:58
torture is, how it happens, how many cases
00:15:00
of torture are a separate problem, that there
00:15:02
have been more of them lately, people
00:15:05
have had their ribs broken already in Moscow, well, that is,
00:15:07
something that didn’t happen before in cases
00:15:10
related to politics That is, everything here is getting
00:15:13
much worse how
00:15:16
influential this report is, what after it, what does it
00:15:19
influence, but it’s hard for me to judge here honestly
00:15:21
about He and I think whoever is watching
00:15:24
presents himself as a kind of attitude towards
00:15:28
international structures, international
00:15:29
organizations, we understand that this is not very
00:15:31
good it works honestly and openly and it’s unlikely that it’s
00:15:36
worth hoping that it will have any significant impact. But this is rather
00:15:38
educational information for the whole world
00:15:41
for people who diplomats diplomats
00:15:45
bring their governments to some
00:15:47
form because, after all, I’m sure
00:15:50
not everyone understands what’s going on in Russia,
00:15:52
that these are actually some distant
00:15:55
positions, he always blames everyone when you
00:15:58
still have a neutral report, he
00:16:01
didn’t let the special representative into Russia,
00:16:03
yes, this is a report to collect on the spot. This of
00:16:07
course causes a reaction. I think the reaction is just a
00:16:11
greater understanding of what is happening in
00:16:13
Russia. in my opinion, it’s quite
00:16:14
useful; another thing is to hope that the report
00:16:17
There are also recommendations in the report;
00:16:20
they end with a treasure approximately
00:16:22
the same; you need to improve the judicial
00:16:24
system; end with repression; cancel
00:16:26
repressive legislation;
00:16:28
this is the same form as any
00:16:31
official statement of international
00:16:33
structures; We don’t hope for this; you
00:16:37
know in fact, Sergei If
00:16:39
we talk about the Committee against Torture,
00:16:40
for example, and
00:16:42
such recommendations that
00:16:45
are given to countries every five years, countries try to
00:16:47
implement, for example, at one time it was
00:16:50
this committee that recommended separating the
00:16:52
investigative committee of the Prosecutor's Office of
00:16:53
the Russian Federation, this was done, that
00:16:56
is, some time ago Russia
00:16:57
listened to such reports,
00:16:58
of course, and here the influence of the
00:17:01
ECHR from which Russia withdrew is very important and now
00:17:03
it remains literally the only
00:17:05
organization where Russia continues to
00:17:07
cooperate and listens or
00:17:10
pretends to listen, but there is a
00:17:12
return to the HRC that had a very
00:17:14
serious impact
00:17:17
on, for example, the conditions of detention in prison,
00:17:20
they are all compared to the 90s, they
00:17:22
have improved again, it’s hard to say we
00:17:25
only understand that we are talking about
00:17:26
schizo, but globally there are changes,
00:17:29
including the relative transparency of the
00:17:31
judicial system, in this regard, I have an
00:17:33
example of a country that was not in the ECHR and did
00:17:36
not follow the recommendations of Belarus Yes, that’s
00:17:39
there everything is much worse there is complete
00:17:41
opacity if we say here that a
00:17:43
prisoner has been traveling for several weeks and we do
00:17:46
n’t know about him, in Belarus we
00:17:49
may not know what’s going on for months or even years,
00:17:51
a person.
00:17:53
Let’s have time to talk a little more
00:17:56
about history. Moreover, in Russia I’m not
00:18:00
I know how you noticed that after the
00:18:01
war, crimes against
00:18:03
monuments began. It’s surprising, but for some reason the
00:18:06
regime suddenly focused on several
00:18:09
nationalities. It’s probably the Poles that
00:18:12
somehow lead in this regard. But
00:18:15
now there is a message
00:18:17
from others there in Athens and so on.
00:18:18
Why is it
00:18:20
important for the state to fight monuments
00:18:24
I think again We are considering this, we don’t
00:18:27
know the answer clearly and clearly about
00:18:30
the state, there is no doubt that this is done by
00:18:32
state structures, but here it is
00:18:34
quite important to understand that if there was an order
00:18:37
at the level of Moscow and Vladimir
00:18:38
Putin personally, then this happened all over the country
00:18:41
Within a week
00:18:43
then there is most likely I suspect that
00:18:46
this is rather an initiative on the ground, perhaps of
00:18:49
local intelligence services which the disease
00:18:52
relates to in some regions Yes, to the
00:18:54
memory they believe that these monuments are a
00:18:57
direct accusation of us by the intelligence services and here is another
00:19:01
convenient excuse Yes, the countries that are
00:19:03
now against us are their own
00:19:04
they are fighting against us with monuments, let us
00:19:07
do something with them.
00:19:09
Well, it seems to me that this is a common story for a
00:19:12
totalitarian state in the sense
00:19:14
that it is trying to rewrite this history
00:19:16
and remove inconvenient moments.
00:19:18
I think we will see a lot more of this
00:19:21
kind in the history of monuments, that is
00:19:24
Well, we just watched a discussion on history
00:19:28
this weekend, Magomed
00:19:30
Daudov, nicknamed Lord, spoke out against the
00:19:33
textbook that Medinsky wrote, the
00:19:36
miracle really had some kind of reaction, but
00:19:38
then the moment Daudov deleted a
00:19:40
fragment of his supply, he said that
00:19:42
the circulation of textbooks would be confiscated, apparently it was
00:19:44
not confiscated after all what kind of
00:19:46
historical discussion is this? I wouldn’t call it
00:19:49
historical in the literal sense
00:19:51
of the word, but it’s such a thing that
00:19:54
modern Russia is such an
00:19:56
eclecticism from different states and to make a
00:20:01
textbook that absolutely everyone would like,
00:20:03
even today’s Seemingly complete
00:20:07
monolithic Russia is quite a difficult
00:20:09
task
00:20:10
and Medinsky I made
00:20:13
some mistake with my textbook because you ca
00:20:16
n’t keep track of everything. Yes And at the moment of
00:20:20
repression, the repressed peoples
00:20:22
made a not very correct
00:20:23
formulation and this caused a reaction. I
00:20:26
think such a topic is such a thing that it is very
00:20:28
difficult to write a textbook in athletics.
00:20:30
We still have some kind of controversy probably
00:20:33
about the 19th century about the revolution, then there will be
00:20:36
something else because there the Putin
00:20:39
state likes to use Yes,
00:20:41
some moments in its favor and
00:20:44
sometimes it’s just the opposite Well,
00:20:46
I don’t know, to be for Lenin or the Tsar, it’s
00:20:50
not so easy to formalize in the textbook,
00:20:51
so as not to cause a contradiction, the groups
00:20:53
that support the Ukrainian
00:20:55
state, on the one hand, created the
00:20:57
Ukrainian state, on the other hand,
00:20:59
preserved Yes, preserved the
00:21:02
very one that was disintegrating with Russia. Well, that
00:21:04
is, I mean that you can’t please everyone here;
00:21:07
another point, I have no doubt
00:21:09
that such influential people I’m
00:21:13
afraid that most
00:21:16
likely there won’t be any more opponents and defenders, but we’re just seeing something like
00:21:18
this. It seems to me that the
00:21:20
characteristic picture is that this textbook is
00:21:22
cobbled together from pieces, not everyone likes it, and some
00:21:25
people don’t like it; they sit and are
00:21:28
silent.
00:21:29
Sergei’s last topic, which I want to
00:21:31
have time to talk about. You are the editor-in-chief
00:21:32
of the media zone and Just together with the BBC, you are
00:21:36
counting messages about the dead
00:21:40
Russians in the war with Ukraine and your
00:21:44
calculations show that this is at least
00:21:48
36 38 thousand Well, yes, in this category,
00:21:53
tell us what conclusions can be drawn from
00:21:56
this count, what do you see How
00:22:00
the information of the dead is changing
00:22:02
How it is changing in the end, the contingent of
00:22:04
dead Yes, well, you just need to understand
00:22:07
that the big problem with the numbers is in any
00:22:10
case, since the state of these numbers does
00:22:13
not provide any alternative
00:22:15
Normal calculations We do not see estimates,
00:22:18
for example, yes Or Ukrainian countries and
00:22:20
Western intelligence services this is not the most frequent
00:22:22
information
00:22:23
is not the same there this is still an estimate.
00:22:28
We decided to monitor the losses from
00:22:31
open messages, literally, so we
00:22:33
know the names of the dead, more than 30 thousand
00:22:36
dead, and from them we can determine
00:22:39
where people are from. Which regions. That is, this is
00:22:43
information useful for understanding where
00:22:45
more people are fighting, how many are dying
00:22:48
now from those mobilized from Volunteers,
00:22:51
some people are not always possible to determine
00:22:53
who yes We understood exactly how many
00:22:56
prisoners began to die Yes, when it became
00:23:00
noticeable by the way, it’s harder for them to deal with them
00:23:02
because there is no doubt that they are
00:23:04
less social
00:23:06
and they have fewer social connections and
00:23:08
we’re just talking about the deaths of prisoners we will
00:23:10
learn less social networks than
00:23:12
about people other than others who have
00:23:14
more social connections left, that
00:23:17
is, we can make such a general assessment
00:23:19
How the number of deaths is changing,
00:23:22
approximate dynamics Yes, when it’s one thing but the
00:23:25
names we see how many names we see
00:23:27
in a month we understand more fierce
00:23:29
battles are not fierce this is not the number of
00:23:31
real losses, this is the number of people who
00:23:35
we have determined that he definitely died and
00:23:37
there is a message about this,
00:23:39
however, from these numbers we can draw many
00:23:41
conclusions
00:23:43
regions age royal composition and so
00:23:48
on Thank you very much Sergei for coming
00:23:50
to the studio and answering questions goodbye the
00:23:53
European and American press
00:23:55
regularly publish articles about Russian
00:23:57
culture and its so-called black
00:23:59
spots, do the waves of these
00:24:02
discussions reach Russia? We’ll ask
00:24:04
journalist and exhibition curator Anna
00:24:06
Narinskaya Hello Anna Hello
00:24:08
How much do these articles really
00:24:11
provoke discussion both in the West and
00:24:14
in Russia?
00:24:15
indeed, two in the West in Russia,
00:24:19
these are two such different questions in general. And
00:24:22
unfortunately, now
00:24:24
we still always forget that, by
00:24:27
the way, Facebook is where the reflection of the
00:24:30
mirror of these discussions is, even if they were there
00:24:33
in some German in New York there was a
00:24:37
famous article about this or even in
00:24:40
some Russian-speaking but banned
00:24:43
buildings in Russia, we still say that
00:24:44
Facebook is in Russia under VPN And in
00:24:47
fact, it’s not like people know this is just one
00:24:49
Happy family or an
00:24:50
unhappy family that sits on
00:24:53
Facebook and there he swears or, on the contrary,
00:24:55
agrees about this Well, frankly
00:24:57
speaking, even before VPN it was such a
00:24:59
unique social network,
00:25:02
not Odnoklassniki not VKontakte, that’s why
00:25:05
these are completely two different
00:25:07
stories, roughly speaking, I feel
00:25:10
scary, I don’t know, again I’m tired of
00:25:13
saying the word guilty, well somehow
00:25:16
involved in all this because
00:25:19
Having arrived
00:25:21
in Germany in particular there after the
00:25:24
start of a full-time invasion, I
00:25:28
believed that this tragedy, everything that
00:25:30
happens should really push us, but I do
00:25:32
n’t know, let’s call
00:25:34
humanities intellectuals and so on, to
00:25:36
push us to this reflection
00:25:39
about Russian literature in particular not
00:25:42
only Well, I remember your article and I remember
00:25:45
this image of Pushkin
00:25:48
in Kherson in my opinion What kind of banner is this
00:25:51
that pushes the name of Pushkin in general, in essence,
00:25:54
this territory of
00:25:56
the article was captured was that it was mine
00:25:58
I didn’t defend Pushkin I didn’t defend I gave it
00:26:01
conditionally Mine generation are those people
00:26:05
whose conscious life occurred in a
00:26:08
short moment Okay Freedom of speech,
00:26:11
let’s say freedom of speech in this
00:26:13
regard in Russia Even if not more fully Well, you
00:26:16
could say anything about culture
00:26:17
in the late 90s and early 2000 and
00:26:22
we don’t seem to have any there is
00:26:25
no time for a colonial, non-gender
00:26:28
analysis of Russian canonical
00:26:33
texts, which are terribly important in
00:26:36
Russia because they have this same
00:26:38
mirror called the school
00:26:40
curriculum and we must understand that the
00:26:42
school curriculum that
00:26:44
My mother, who just died, was
00:26:47
born in 1936, studied with. me
00:26:50
and according to which they studied My children are
00:26:51
almost the same Well, they
00:26:55
brought up the Solzhenitsa, in my opinion The story about a real
00:26:57
person was brought out when my children are
00:26:59
now probably leading everything back,
00:27:03
that is, it’s really directly cast in
00:27:07
some kind of bronze, this canon Yes, and the
00:27:10
Great is a terrible word Russian literature
00:27:13
and we are still and yes My generation
00:27:17
has done nothing about the fact that Putin, with the
00:27:21
full applause of everyone and without any
00:27:24
doubt, can put Pushkin on a
00:27:28
billboard in Kherson, maybe they can be classics
00:27:30
in which Gogol will be included, which means
00:27:33
decorating the ruins of theaters in Mariupol
00:27:37
is not the study of my generation, I am
00:27:41
absolutely sure of this, that is, it is clear
00:27:43
that it’s not that we could influence
00:27:45
Putin like that and he would say, well, he wrote in Rimskoe
00:27:48
Now, of course, I won’t do this,
00:27:49
but there’s simply not even any
00:27:54
parallel discussion of this And when
00:27:57
my schoolchildren children went through Poltava in a
00:28:01
class without any historical In the
00:28:04
commentary During the most wonderful years in the
00:28:06
most beautiful Moscow school,
00:28:09
of course it’s, well, let’s say it’s the fault of the
00:28:11
humanities students, so I should have
00:28:13
done this, I didn’t do this about this
00:28:15
was the article that you remembered So
00:28:18
I think to this day Since then, there has been
00:28:22
talk about the fact that Russian culture is
00:28:24
somehow different from, if Divided by
00:28:28
historical periods Yes, from the French
00:28:32
incredible imperial And if you
00:28:36
say the position of women,
00:28:39
gender violence, and so on, they will give a head
00:28:42
start to the cruising ranks of a lot of things,
00:28:45
for example, French authors, that’s where no
00:28:49
means yes will be described very strongly. That
00:28:52
is, this is Now a very
00:28:56
conscious refusal of historicism in the criticism of
00:29:00
Russian culture when, for example, I
00:29:02
spoke with the author of One of the
00:29:04
harshest articles about this and asked the question
00:29:08
you are writing. Write it out in a German newspaper
00:29:11
and do not compare it in any way with the views
00:29:14
of German classics And the German
00:29:17
romantics who glorified the war And
00:29:19
in general, military feats were One of the
00:29:22
main themes Yes, a man, a lone knight,
00:29:25
capture, storm and stress, it
00:29:28
was actually called yes. Well, somehow here the eyes drop so much
00:29:33
and it turns out that all this is
00:29:35
not important, although in fact, Yes, we
00:29:37
understand that
00:29:39
everything in the case is in the European context, and the
00:29:42
Russian culture that we are talking about is at
00:29:45
least these important economic
00:29:48
texts. Yes, they are in the European
00:29:49
context. Well, it’s like a
00:29:58
crime divided throughout Europe. Or what should we call it and
00:30:01
say a sign of history? Yes, here’s the Empire
00:30:05
expanded, glorified These people
00:30:07
who go there to India in England and the
00:30:11
time of the white man, the
00:30:12
question is, what was the attitude towards Kipling
00:30:16
who wrote About the time of the white
00:30:18
man
00:30:19
in England Yes, now any schoolchild, even
00:30:22
too much, can be kickbacks from the teeth,
00:30:25
which means it bounces off what Kipling is a
00:30:28
terrible imperialist and so on And we
00:30:31
have not brought such work, which means
00:30:34
that Russian culture is somehow especially
00:30:37
characterized by the
00:30:39
justification of violence, the
00:30:42
attraction to death or something
00:30:46
else that is accused of this is simply not scientific Anna
00:30:50
So you gave an example of the British experience and the
00:30:53
German experience now if you read
00:30:56
again on social networks, you often see the position
00:30:59
that you speak for yourself, there is no need to speak
00:31:02
for other countries,
00:31:06
I discussed this, yes, I think it’s terrible, I
00:31:10
can’t say anything. I never You
00:31:13
can, I understand that I probably many
00:31:15
viewers are now condemning me, I absolutely I don’t
00:31:18
understand, I was involved in sugar at
00:31:21
some point, I did a big
00:31:23
exhibition Well, as a member of a large team
00:31:26
together with Sergei Lukashevsky and I don’t want to
00:31:29
pull the blanket on myself and the
00:31:31
Sakharov center they were already
00:31:34
agents. Of course, we did a big
00:31:37
exhibition dedicated to Sakharov’s centenary in the
00:31:40
twenty-first year and so to
00:31:43
speak, his ideas are very close to me And
00:31:46
I believe that the
00:31:49
ideas of justice should be
00:31:51
national Of course, I cannot call
00:31:55
for the fact that it is clear that they should
00:32:01
take into account all sorts of
00:32:04
national characteristics of tradition and so
00:32:07
on, but still, yes, human rights are
00:32:10
rights I
00:32:12
won’t talk about a person now Well, they are
00:32:15
human rights everywhere Yes and
00:32:17
Well, if you don’t treat it like that, then I just don’t
00:32:20
know what to do, but then we have to accept
00:32:22
that
00:32:26
female circumcision is for this culture and let’s
00:32:28
live with it, so to speak. Well, I’m probably a very
00:32:30
outdated person, I’m like that I can’t live, I
00:32:32
think that no, a woman cannot be
00:32:34
stoned anywhere, no matter how
00:32:37
autoctonal it is, some cultures speak
00:32:39
only for myself, you can disagree with me.
00:32:42
So
00:32:45
I think that it was the duty of my generation
00:32:49
and the
00:32:51
Russians within
00:32:53
their
00:32:55
culture, let’s say their language, to
00:32:59
how to say to look critically at
00:33:04
various texts of Russian literature We are
00:33:06
still talking mainly about Russian literature
00:33:08
Well, or there are some works of
00:33:11
painting and what is that Although this does not have such an
00:33:15
impact and we had to somehow
00:33:18
say
00:33:20
stop talking about it like about something
00:33:23
absolutely beyond
00:33:25
the jurisdiction of what if
00:33:28
Lermontov wrote a terrible
00:33:30
lullaby text which I just can’t repeat now
00:33:34
means on the air And what did he write that
00:33:38
even the Russian court now
00:33:40
prohibits further just how to say it’s not so
00:33:43
popular Well, here’s Lermontov’s
00:33:44
lullaby text my baby is sleeping a wonderful
00:33:47
story this is
00:33:49
read by every seven Well, probably yes, it
00:33:52
was necessary to work with it somehow
00:33:54
and this work has been carried out there, for example, in
00:33:57
America This is work with incredible By
00:34:00
the way, I think there are overlaps But there is a
00:34:02
lot going on there, I
00:34:05
repeat, I will say again Yes, and in this sense,
00:34:08
Probably it is necessary as It would be for the Russians,
00:34:12
so as not to tell the Russians or the Jews
00:34:15
like me, but at the same time born in Russian
00:34:19
culture and working there with it, they
00:34:21
had to think about it. So that then
00:34:24
other people wouldn’t think for us, wouldn’t write
00:34:26
articles in the New Yorker about how they
00:34:28
Tolstoy was disappointed, but
00:34:30
to say that being in some
00:34:34
country you cannot be indignant at
00:34:36
lawlessness if we are not talking about culture right now.
00:34:38
Yes, just lawlessness in another
00:34:40
country, in my opinion. This is nonsense. Well, you
00:34:43
addressed your audience with just such a question,
00:34:46
as they say some kind of
00:34:47
teaser the answer killed, yes, that is, the
00:34:50
answer
00:34:52
is for me. I don’t even understand that, for
00:34:55
example, a resident of
00:34:58
Hitler’s Germany. He couldn’t
00:35:00
condemn racism in America, which
00:35:03
was a monster then.
00:35:05
I can even just not have Facebook and
00:35:07
then they would have sent him some- then the
00:35:09
planters who had already done something to the
00:35:13
slaves and would say, well, you actually have
00:35:16
consorts. Sit quietly,
00:35:18
this is some level of conversation, I absolutely do
00:35:22
n’t know. Firstly, it kind of
00:35:25
kills any idea of ​​conversation that
00:35:29
experience is something important, so people
00:35:32
can bring one experience into another experience
00:35:35
In addition, I repeat that there are
00:35:37
some humanitarian standards that,
00:35:39
well,
00:35:41
for places where we are told that there is
00:35:45
democracy and civilization, they
00:35:50
are more or less strongholds, so
00:35:55
I don’t want to give examples now.
00:35:57
I just think that really,
00:36:01
how to say
00:36:03
I think it’s outdated that thought blows wherever it
00:36:07
wants and therefore people can think about
00:36:09
everything talk
00:36:12
question like the author of the film Find the Jews
00:36:15
When you hear a joke from Vladimir Putin
00:36:17
about the detergent Israeli, what do you think,
00:36:20
what do you feel
00:36:22
Oh, I personally don’t feel anything,
00:36:27
just put it this way, I also wrote about it,
00:36:32
so I can literally I never
00:36:35
had any doubts that, like a stage in
00:36:40
Russian xenophobia, the stage
00:36:42
of anti-Semitism, it will return or can
00:36:46
say It will come again. This is an eternal
00:36:48
saying. Well, at least Putin is not an anti-Semite,
00:36:51
which of course was very popular in Jewish circles and
00:36:53
right in Israel, and that
00:36:56
means in Israel it was It’s a really important
00:36:58
quality of Putin that at least he’s not an
00:37:00
anti-Semite, you know, we Jews
00:37:04
tend to treat ourselves as the chosen
00:37:06
people, and that’s why many people
00:37:09
believe that there is xenophobia in general and
00:37:12
national intolerance, and these are all these
00:37:15
things, but there is Emitism, which is somehow something
00:37:18
else and there is racism And there is This is
00:37:21
some completely different thing
00:37:23
Unfortunately or fortunately this is not so And
00:37:26
if xenophobia flourishes in the country and
00:37:28
if in general it is said that some
00:37:30
people there are not like that and should know their
00:37:32
place as they say And in general
00:37:35
it is considered that languages ​​are not equal and
00:37:38
cultures are just not
00:37:40
equal to Putin, then this will also affect Jews,
00:37:43
especially keeping in mind that there really
00:37:46
is a great tradition in Russia, if for
00:37:50
example
00:37:51
this is another question that was which we wo
00:37:54
n’t
00:37:56
talk about today, but probably that’s how one
00:38:00
of Putin’s main enemies
00:38:03
representatives of LGBT people have become But this is just the way it
00:38:07
is It’s amazing how much
00:38:10
attention is paid to this group of people in general,
00:38:12
and now, for example, even recently
00:38:17
some funny comedy film was released where
00:38:19
the main one
00:38:20
How cross-racing works there, or whether the
00:38:23
main character overheats in
00:38:27
Yakut women film Let's pay attention, they
00:38:31
took away his license because it's
00:38:35
LGBT Propaganda
00:38:36
and Hello, am I your aunt, is it a banned
00:38:40
film or not How was it shown in every club here, it
00:38:42
all means Hello It's like Nikitich
00:38:46
Yes, the main thing is that somehow I
00:38:51
was sitting on every TV, that is, this is worse
00:38:53
than the Soviet regime in this sense Yes, and
00:38:55
in many ways we will not hide So and In
00:38:59
addition, it is clear There are some moments of their own,
00:39:03
but it is also obvious that this is a kind of
00:39:07
platform on which Propaganda can unite with a certain
00:39:09
part of the population, well,
00:39:15
because there is and in of all peoples Let's not
00:39:18
deceive ourselves that this is
00:39:19
somehow characteristic of the Russian people or Russian
00:39:21
Russia, rejection of the other is a very
00:39:24
important thing, and
00:39:26
so to speak, and racism in many different
00:39:30
countries is based on this. Rejection of the
00:39:32
other is a very strong thing. A Jew is an
00:39:36
absolutely
00:39:37
typical ideal other, in addition to
00:39:42
Russia has a huge tradition of not loving
00:39:45
this other
00:39:47
state anti-Semitism of
00:39:50
caricatures where with such noses it means that
00:39:53
this is an
00:39:54
absolute faith that has not gone anywhere, an
00:39:58
all-onist conspiracy and what that means is that they are
00:40:00
sitting somewhere behind the scenes since until
00:40:04
recently I went to Moscow from
00:40:06
Moscow I
00:40:07
left on August 10 for the last time I must
00:40:10
tell you that it is considered indecent
00:40:13
to judge by taxi drivers what it is in general.
00:40:16
But still, I’ll tell you that the number of
00:40:21
taxi drivers who told me that it was the
00:40:23
Zionists who started the war, they generally move
00:40:26
puppets and even Putin is all of
00:40:30
them are proteges. More than five
00:40:34
taxi drivers, they drove so often, that’s why the
00:40:38
fact that the
00:40:40
development of Russia as it is developing
00:40:43
now will also lead to anti-Semitism. What kind of it
00:40:48
will it be? Is it possible to repeat the structure of
00:40:50
state anti-Semitism? I don’t
00:40:54
know how it was in the Soviet Union. Well,
00:40:58
maybe it’s possible because it’s a long
00:41:01
conversation, I’m afraid. We don’t have time because
00:41:03
it’s just because until now Since
00:41:05
there are Israeli laws
00:41:08
of return and any potential Jews
00:41:10
can leave for Israel, then I would not be
00:41:12
surprised at all. I don’t know about some kind of ban on
00:41:14
education, I croak this does
00:41:17
n’t foretell anything, well, almost nothing
00:41:20
foretells anything, but quite such a
00:41:24
technical explanation Why Jews
00:41:28
for example, you don’t need to enter technical
00:41:30
universities, you can find it because they will go to
00:41:33
Israel and will use this
00:41:34
education against us or our
00:41:37
allies or our allies, this was
00:41:40
one of the main explanations for
00:41:42
state anti-seatism in the
00:41:44
seventies and the exclusion of this
00:41:47
black list of universities where Jews could not
00:41:49
to do which, uh, since I did
00:41:52
the film, the research was shared by
00:41:55
many people whom we are accustomed to
00:41:58
consider decent.
00:42:00
We mentioned one Yakut film
00:42:02
Let's talk about another Yes, the film And this
00:42:04
was the one that was removed, I also did
00:42:06
not see the film Unfortunately, but the most important thing is
00:42:09
that we can’t watch it
00:42:10
because it was removed from streaming
00:42:12
platforms And why, in your
00:42:16
opinion, in principle did the state react so nervously
00:42:18
to a film that, in
00:42:20
general, It would seem that it was calmly shown
00:42:23
at various festivals And did
00:42:25
not cause any problems on the national agenda,
00:42:28
you know, I don’t want to to talk about what you don’t
00:42:31
know, of course I just read about it,
00:42:33
so I understand that after all, the idea is going well,
00:42:36
and in some national conflicts, that there is
00:42:41
some kind of tension shown in this
00:42:44
film between the
00:42:46
Yakut population and the Russian
00:42:49
policeman, I wanted to say the policeman
00:42:51
Yes, it seems to me that this is also becomes
00:42:54
absolute, firstly, there are two things here,
00:42:57
firstly because such tension is
00:43:00
rising now in different regions
00:43:02
and this is one hundred percent too. I have
00:43:04
personal experience, in my opinion, even in the studio I talked about it using the
00:43:06
example of the truth of
00:43:08
people from Kalmykia, it’s correct to say
00:43:13
Yes, where there is certainly this, well, there
00:43:17
is such tension. This is a new thing, people,
00:43:19
how to say it, suddenly realized Yes, and
00:43:22
they remembered the suppression that was and,
00:43:25
for example, they consider the situation with a
00:43:28
large number of conscription there in
00:43:30
Ukraine as unfair. That is,
00:43:34
this is rising Yes, and this is certainly true
00:43:36
there is a reaction. And besides, there is
00:43:39
this idea. Sergei also said
00:43:42
that the state is eclectic and
00:43:45
[music]
00:43:47
according to Medinsky’s textbook, and the reaction
00:43:50
to it is clear that this is starting to interfere, this must be taken
00:43:52
into account, it is very difficult to
00:43:55
take into account. Therefore, this needs to be leveled out,
00:43:58
what is this no, how can I cut off any hints about
00:44:01
this? Thank you very much Anna for
00:44:05
coming to the studio, answering questions,
00:44:07
goodbye
00:44:08
Valentina Matvienko said Valery
00:44:10
Zorka is not the Chairman of the Constitutional
00:44:12
Court, otherwise she said that he skillfully
00:44:15
weaves beads, well, I must admit that there is
00:44:18
no better way to say what he does
00:44:20
constitutional court is Like
00:44:23
this video and Subscribe to our
00:44:24
channel
00:44:25
goodbye
00:44:29
[music]

Description:

Анна Наринская, журналистка и куратор выставок и Сергей Смирнов, главный редактор «Медиазоны» — гости нового Oбзора от BILD. Подписывайтесь на наш Telegram: https://t.me/BILD_Russian

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