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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:07
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to The Cone of Shame Veterinary 00:00:10
Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys,
I am here with one of my good friends. We went 00:00:14
to vet school together. Gosh. She's done so much
for our profession. She is one of the funniest, 00:00:21
most fun people that I have met in my life.
Dr. Mary Gardner is here on the podcast.
00:00:26
Dr. Andy Roark:
We are talking about her new book, 00:00:29
It's Never Long Enough: A Practical Guide for
Caring for Your Geriatric Dog. She has a practical 00:00:35
guide for caring for your geriatric cat coming out
later this year. Man, she tells stories from the 00:00:40
book and you will see why she's amazing.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:00:44
Honestly, guys, I'm to going to sit down
and read this book, because she sold me on 00:00:49
it. What she's doing is just awesome. It's
hard to believe that somebody could talk about 00:00:56
geriatric care and end of life
care and make it uplifting and fun 00:01:02
and interesting. She crushes it. Anyway, guys,
I'll show you. Let's get into this episode.
00:01:16
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(Singing).
00:01:25
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast. Dr. 00:01:29
Mary Gardner. How are you?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:01:31
I'm good, Andy. How are you?
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:01:33
Man, I'm good. It's good to see you again.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:01:35
I know. Listen, we go way back.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:01:38
Yes. We do. I had that thought
getting ready for this. I was like, 00:01:42
we have to be careful or this going to become one
of those, "Remember in vet school," episodes.
00:01:46
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I'm not going to let that 00:01:47
happen, but we could totally do that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:01:48
Okay. We won't. But it's like 18 years now or
something ridiculous from when we first met.
00:01:53
Dr. Andy Roark:
It is. It's amazing. Time flies by. Look at us.
00:01:59
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know.
Dr. Andy Roark:
We're in vastly different places than when we met. 00:02:05
You are, for those who don't know, one of the
co-founders of Lap of Love. That hospice. You 00:02:10
are an entrepreneur. You do a lot of different
things. You are a wonderful lecturer and really 00:02:16
funny person and a light in veterinary medicine.
You're also an author. You have a new book out.
00:02:23
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I do.
00:02:24
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's called, It's 00:02:25
Never Long Enough: A Practical Guide to Caring
for Your Geriatric Dog. What is that like?
00:02:31
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It's a lot of work, 00:02:33
let me tell you, but it's something I've
wanted to write for many years. Because 00:02:39
doing end of life care ... You see some hot
messes. You see some jalopies. Having the lens 00:02:49
of being able to go to somebody's homes, I saw
so many families struggle with their older pets 00:02:55
and not know how to practically care for them
in the home. Whether they were seen by their 00:03:01
veterinarian or not for their last year of
life, which is a sad statistic in itself.
00:03:06
Dr. Mary Gardner:
A lot of us vets focus just on the medicine 00:03:10
and don't know ... What's the best harness
to recommend? What about all the booties 00:03:13
that are available? What do you do when the dog is
pooping all over the house? How do you clean it? 00:03:17
And so, the families were lacking that practical
home care. Just doing hospice. That's a big 00:03:24
part of hospice, is the environmental
setup. Along with palliative care.
00:03:28
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I just have been wanting to write this for the pet 00:03:32
owner for a long time. We helped write a textbook
for veterinarians, but I just wanted something 00:03:38
for the pet owners. However, it's really good for
everybody. Technicians. Veterinarians. It's pretty 00:03:45
comprehensive. I started it probably over three
years ago and it's 500 pages. It's pretty long.
00:03:53
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's called It's Never Long Enough. That's 00:03:55
the story of you writing the book.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:03:58
I had to stop. It was horrible.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:04:03
It's 500 pages. It's a 500-page book. This
is not a pamphlet that you put out.
00:04:09
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No.
00:04:10
Dr. Andy Roark:
First of all, it's a real book. You can get 00:04:11
it on Amazon. I'll put links in the show notes.
There's nothing second tier about this. It is 100% 00:04:18
gold star all the way.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:04:20
It's a real thing. There's 250
pictures and it's all color.
00:04:25
Dr. Andy Roark:
Wow.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I didn't want to be ... I wanted it to 00:04:28
be gold standard. There you go.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:04:30
No. I say that jokingly, but I say that fully
impressed with what you've put together. It's 00:04:36
amazing. And so, let's be honest. How many of us
wish that we had time to walk through with pet 00:04:42
owners and talk about these things?
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:04:43
We know that pet owners have tons of
questions, but just basic things are, 00:04:47
"What am I looking for in a harness?" They
don't even know to ask about a harness. 00:04:50
They don't know what they don't know. They
don't know that's a thing that they should 00:04:55
even consider.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:04:56
And so, when they don't even know what
questions to ask us, how can we support them? 00:05:00
I think that it's amazing that you took your
knowledge from going into people's homes. From 00:05:05
work and doing hospice care for ... What?
You guys started Lap of Love in 2009?
00:05:10
Dr. Mary Gardner:
2009. Yes.
00:05:12
Dr. Andy Roark:
12 years. 13 years, at this point?
00:05:16
Dr. Mary Gardner:
13 years. It's crazy.
00:05:18
Dr. Andy Roark:
That's been what you do. It's been your 00:05:20
passion. 13 years of being in people's homes. You
said, "This is what I see people struggling with." 00:05:26
Or, "This is the things that I wish I could tell
them or that they have asked along the way." This 00:05:31
is an amazing resource. Because most of us, we
love to have those quality of life conversations. 00:05:38
Ways to help pet owners.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:05:40
But most of us don't have time to really unpack
those sorts of things. I don't know. I tell you. 00:05:46
I'm one of those people where ... When I have
a complex problem or I have something that's 00:05:50
significant in my life, I like to read about it.
I'm a reader. Give me a book to sit down with and 00:05:56
get what I need. That's how I learn.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:05:59
I could see you doing that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:06:01
100%. I have the most eclectic
book collection from different 00:06:07
passing fancies in my life.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:06:10
That's awesome. Listen, I had to recently
clear out my book shelves. I was getting a 00:06:14
little analysis paralysis. I dumped about 100
books recently, but I'm like you too. I just 00:06:20
take little bits and I'm a little sponge.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:06:25
I need to purge books. I still have
all of our books from vet school.
00:06:29
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Listen, I threw out a lot. There's a few 00:06:32
I kept. Internal Medicine. Dermatology.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:06:34
I'm going to go back and be like, "Let's
check back in 2006. See what Internal 00:06:40
Medicine standards were there." Why do
I have that? I don't know, but I do.
00:06:43
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I don't know. Exactly. 00:06:46
I love it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:06:48
Let's start to unpack this a little bit.
When you sat down to write this book, were 00:06:53
there major things? You were like, "These are the
takeaways that I really want to hammer home."
00:06:57
Dr. Andy Roark:
Or were there objectives that you had in creating 00:07:00
the book? Where you're like, "I really want pet
owners to understand these concepts." Or, "These 00:07:04
are areas that I don't feel they're getting from
conversations they're having with vets now."
00:07:10
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think a little bit of all of that. There's 00:07:14
repetitive conversations I would have in the homes 00:07:17
over and over and over again. So I'm
like, "Okay. Definitely, have that." 00:07:19
But one thing I wanted to do is not create
a book about all the diseases a pet gets.
00:07:25
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right.
00:07:26
Dr. Mary Gardner:
In this case, it's dogs. 00:07:27
I'm working on the cat book. That'll be out this
summer. But I didn't want just, "Diabetes ..." The 00:07:34
list of all the diseases. I wanted to focus on
the ailments that they struggle with and how to 00:07:41
help them. For instance, mobility, which is the
number one issue I see in older dogs. And so, 00:07:48
whether they've got arthritis or a disc issue 00:07:51
or DM. Or whatever it may be.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:07:53
My girl, Sam, she had cancer in her spinal cord.
Random. And so, no matter what the problem is, 00:08:00
or the disease is, rather ... The problem is
they can't move. They can't get up and down 00:08:04
well. How do we help support the family?
How do we set up the home to do that?
00:08:08
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Same thing with incontinence. 00:08:10
Whether it's because you've got diabetes or
just a bad sphincter. How do we keep pets clean 00:08:16
and keep the home sane? Because it's not
easy when you have an in incontinent pet. 00:08:23
Number one or number two. So I wanted to focus
a portion of the book on just the ailments.
00:08:28
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And then, for the dog, there were though a 00:08:31
few diseases that I just wanted to shout out that
really are very geriatric-focused. For instance, 00:08:37
Lar Par is one that just needed a chapter.
Probably, because I had a dog with Lar Par, 00:08:43
so I had to give it a little nod.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:08:45
Sure. No. I get that. I love that you think of
it that way. It's so easy for us as doctors to 00:08:52
look at disease and to classify it as disease
symptoms. When you were saying that, I was like, 00:08:56
"I would totally do that." You know what I mean?
I'm an explainer. And so, I would want them to 00:09:02
understand the mechanisms of diabetes and
what this means and blah, blah, blah.
00:09:07
Dr. Andy Roark:
The truth is, they don't 00:09:08
care. Their doctor is working with them to manage
it. They don't need to understand the pathology. 00:09:15
They need to understand the symptoms and managing.
Basically, home nursing care, in a lot of ways.
00:09:20
Dr. Mary Gardner:
That's it.
00:09:21
Dr. Andy Roark:
That makes a ton of sense.
00:09:22
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Right? The dogs are there panting and pacing. 00:09:26
Is it because they're on steroids or they've got a
cognitive dysfunction? How do we settle them down? 00:09:32
How do we keep them sane and us sane? And so, it
is a lot of a lot of nursing care. I've learned so 00:09:38
much from families over the years.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:09:41
They taught me a lot of home hacks. I'm like,
"I never would've thought of that." They're just 00:09:48
amazing. I put so much into that book. I mentioned
over 200 pictures. They're all from the families I 00:09:55
learned from. And so, they were all so happy to
be a part of this book too and have their pets 00:10:01
help others along the way.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:10:03
I bet those were wonderful phone calls or
emails to send, when you're like, "Hey. 00:10:07
I'm writing a book to help pet owners and I
have pictures of your pet from back in the day. 00:10:14
Can I use this as an example of someone who
figured a thing out that was going to be helpful?" 00:10:19
I bet they loved it.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:10:22
They were like, "I have more," Andy. They
were loving it. And so, this is when I lecture 00:10:29
to veterinarians and I say, "Our websites. Look
at your website. It's all puppies, kittens, 00:10:33
and adults. You have no geriatric
old dogs or cats on your website. 00:10:39
You need to have some education on your
website about how to manage these symptoms."
00:10:43
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Trust me. Your pet owners will send 00:10:46
their pictures in, will send the videos in. All
that stuff. I remember this one woman. Her dog, 00:10:52
Merdog ... I wanted to show her kitchen.
She had all the bath mats in the kitchen 00:10:57
and they were matched up so that the patterns were
matching of all the bath mats that she had.
00:11:02
Dr. Andy Roark:
That's amazing.
00:11:03
Dr. Mary Gardner:
She tried to do it cute. And so, I said, 00:11:06
"Hey. Can I share this picture in the book?" And
so, she's like, "But look at my countertop. It's 00:11:11
so dirty." I'm like, "Nobody's looking at your
countertop. They're looking at Merdog and all 00:11:15
his bath mats." It was great.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:11:17
That's awesome. That's really, really great.
What did you learn doing the dog book that 00:11:24
you're going to do differently in
the cat book? Because of ...
00:11:26
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Try to keep it under 175,000 words?
00:11:31
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
00:11:34
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I wanted to have stories in it too, because 00:11:37
so many people will remember more things about a
story and connect with stories. I wanted to have a 00:11:43
lot of stories. And I think I've helped more dogs
than I have cats. Just like us. In GP too, you'll 00:11:50
see 30% cats. Or whatever the statistic is.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:11:54
And so, I'm finding it harder to go back in the
history of my brain for some of those cat stories. 00:12:02
Not that I want to. I want to have more cat
stories. I probably won't do too much different. 00:12:10
I actually started this book with both
species in mind. I was building it with 00:12:15
both. The publishers that I was talking to,
they all said, "You've got to split it up."
00:12:20
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I was almost done with it and they're like, 00:12:21
"You've got to split it." Then, I took about
five months to take out the cats. I can now 00:12:27
put the cats back in. They just said, "They're
different species." The owners are different. The 00:12:35
families are different. There's more cat owners
out there. I think we focus so much on dog stuff. 00:12:42
I hope they'll appreciate it, if you will.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:12:48
The sad part is, a lot of research has been done
in dogs more than cats. I'm struggling to find 00:12:55
some of that. I'll just have to say, "This is the
stuff that's been done on dogs, but we haven't 00:13:00
done the same research on longevity and things
like that." But I hope that it's going to be just 00:13:06
as helpful for them as it is for the doggies.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:13:14
I think there's truth to that. Of splitting
them out versus putting them together. Just in 00:13:18
the way that dog owners and cat owners are very
different people. I think that they'll probably 00:13:23
find it more accessible if they say, "No. This is
a cat book," or, "This is a dog book," as opposed 00:13:28
to rolling them together.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:13:30
There's the first section of the book. Because
it's broken into four parts. The first part 00:13:35
is all about aging. And so, why does a
big dog not have as long of a lifespan 00:13:40
as a little dog? What are the things that
we could do to help extend their lifespan? 00:13:44
Things like that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:13:45
But for cats, they're very similar. Usually the
same size. And so, it'll be a little bit shorter. 00:13:51
But there's still so many things that we could
do to help keep our pets living a lot longer. 00:13:58
Even some of the ways that we memorialize our
pets. It can be very similar, but there's also 00:14:02
differences in how we may do that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:14:04
Hey, everybody. I just want to jump in real quick
with a couple of updates. This week, over on the 00:14:10
Uncharted Veterinary Podcast, which is the other
podcast I do with the one and only Stephanie 00:14:15
Goss ... I'm not on that episode. Stephanie
Goss is talking about information security. 00:14:21
Are you storing data in your practice like you're
supposed to? Guys, this is not an area where you 00:14:26
want to get burned.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:14:27
If you are not up-to-date or you're feeling
like, "I should probably listen to that," 00:14:32
head over to the Uncharted Veterinary Podcast
and check it out. Uncharted workshops coming at 00:14:39
you guys. On May the 21st, which is just a couple
of days after this episode comes out. At 2:00 PM 00:14:46
Eastern, 11:00 AM Pacific, Stephanie Goss, she is
teaching our workshop, Retain your Team: Speak the 00:14:52
Languages of Appreciation in Your Workplace.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:14:54
Guys, you're trying to get your team motivated.
You're trying to keep morale up. You're trying to 00:14:58
keep people engaged. You want your team to stick
around, to enjoy the work that they're doing, and 00:15:03
to feel they matter to you and to the patients.
Guys, are you talking about appreciation in your 00:15:10
workplace? Are you doing it effectively?
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:15:12
If not, jump in. This is a little bit higher
level. We had an entry-level appreciation 00:15:17
workshop. This is a bit more down into the nitty
gritty. I think people are going to get lot out 00:15:23
of it. It is $99 to the public. It is free to
our Uncharted members. I'll put a link down in 00:15:28
this show notes below.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:15:29
On June the 8th, my friend Bill Schroeder,
veterinary marketing specialist, CEO of InTouch 00:15:36
Veterinary Marketing, he is going to be doing his
lectures ... It's not lectures. It's a workshop 00:15:41
called Creating Content that Clients Crave.
This is all about you spending your time smartly 00:15:47
to make resources that educate clients, that
answer questions, that protect your reputation. 00:15:53
That do all of the things that you wish you had
content for, but you just don't have all the time 00:15:58
in the world to make.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:15:59
Most of us are spending too much time doing
things like posting stupid social media stuff. 00:16:04
Guys, it's time to get a strategy. It's time to
get smart about how we communicate digitally. Bill 00:16:08
Schroeder is the guy to do that. It is $99 to the
public. It is free for Uncharted members. Guys, 00:16:13
both of those things are coming up. I'm going to
put links to both of them in the show notes.
00:16:17
Dr. Andy Roark:
Let's get back into this episode. Can you 00:16:22
talk a little bit about that? That's one of the
things that you talk a lot about. And I always 00:16:28
take notes. Whether they're mental or physical
notes. But when we talk about honoring pets and 00:16:32
memorializing pets, this is something that
you think a lot about. I really like the way 00:16:36
that you think about it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:16:37
When you start to approach a conversation
with a pet or about memorializing their pets, 00:16:42
or they say, "Hey. I really want to remember
my pet." Or, "I want to honor my pet's memory." 00:16:49
How do you approach that conversation? What are
the things that you think are important as far 00:16:52
as talking to pet owners about after their pet
has passed and the memories of their pets?
00:16:57
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Such a good question, 00:16:58
Andy. The first and most important thing I think
as veterinarian professionals is to not judge. 00:17:06
I'll lecture to clinicians and say ... Even
when the receptionist is on the phone saying, 00:17:12
"Do you want his ashes back or not?" Actually,
just saying it that way, I don't like. Because 00:17:17
that is, "Do you want his ashes back or not?"
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:17:20
It's almost like saying not getting
ashes back means you love them less. 00:17:24
That is further from the truth. There are plenty
of us that may not want the ashes back of our 00:17:30
pet. So I'll say, "Instead of saying that, you
should say, would you the crematory to spread 00:17:36
the ashes for you? Or would you them back
in an urn?" And so, there's no judgment.
00:17:41
Dr. Mary Gardner:
First off, 00:17:43
most important. No judgment. Because what you
would do or I would do is totally different. It 00:17:49
doesn't equate to the love of our pet, but I love
to have all the options. Because I think a lot of 00:17:55
people are scared to ask. Because they may think
we're judging. And that's not true either.
00:18:04
Dr. Mary Gardner:
We're so set on just the ashes, 00:18:07
but there is a lot more that we can do. From
of course, the paw prints or the fur clipping. 00:18:14
I just like to not even offer it. I'll just do
things. I just do the paw print. I don't say, 00:18:19
"Do you want one?" Because somebody may say
no. I've got in the book 75 different ways to 00:18:24
memorialize your pet.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:18:26
That's amazing. That's amazing.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:18:29
I talk about diamonds. I just got a diamond made
out my pet's ashes, because I had to try it out. 00:18:34
That's my excuse. Had to do that. I also think
that sometimes we may hear something unusual, 00:18:42
and we think that's a little crazy. But it's
not. If somebody wants to dehydrate their cat, 00:18:50
you should know where that's at and how they
can do it. I have learned where that's at.
00:18:58
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hold on, I'm acting like, "Yeah." I'm 00:19:01
sorry. I can't keep this up. I'm sorry.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:19:03
No.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Why would someone want to dehydrate
their cat? Is that a thing?
00:19:05
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Listen, I have no idea. But you know what? 00:19:08
I'm also not a hunter. I have no
idea why somebody would want it 00:19:12
to put a dead deer on their wall, but they do.
00:19:15
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
00:19:17
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And that's something you killed.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Have you had someone who 00:19:18
wanted to dehydrate their cat?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:19:20
Yes. We've had ...
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:19:22
Or did you make that up?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:19:24
I love your face.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:19:26
I'm sorry. I'm trying to ... I'm not judging.
I'm trying to understand. Again, I'm not ...
00:19:30
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No. You're having a natural reaction 00:19:32
between two professionals.
Dr. Andy Roark:
00:19:34
Totally.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
00:19:36
Wait. Hold on. I have just
made Andy Roark quiet.Description:
Dr. Mary Gardner's new book, It's Never Long Enough: A practical guide to caring for your geriatric dog, is a wonderful collection of stories, lessons learned, and practical approaches from a career serving pets at the ends of their lives. Dr. Gardner discusses the writing of the book, her next book on cats, the chapters she's most proud of, and some of the stories that she shares in her texts. Whether you are a pet owner with a geriatric dog, or a medical professional who wants to exponentially increase the number of tips and tricks you have to offer pet owners, this book is worth unpacking. LINKS Buy the Book: DrMaryGardner.com/books Dr. Mary Gardner on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser The Uncharted Veterinary Podcast https://unchartedvet.com/uncharted-veterinary-podcast/ Retain Your Team: Languages of Appreciation in your Workplace https://unchartedvet.com/product/appreciation-languages-101/ Creating Content that Clients Crave https://unchartedvet.com/product/creating-content-that-clients-crave/ What’s on my Scrubs?! Card Game: https://drandyroark.com/training-tools/ Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark ABOUT OUR GUEST: There is nothing better to Dr. Mary Gardner than a dog with a grey muzzle or skinny old cat! Her professional goal is to increase awareness and medical care for the geriatric veterinary patient and to help make the final life stage to be as peaceful as possible, surrounded with dignity and support for all involved. A University of Florida graduate (AND ANDY’S CLASSMATE!), she discovered her niche in end of life care and is the co-founder and CIO of Lap of Love which has over 250 veterinarians around the country dedicated to veterinary hospice and euthanasia in the home. Dr. Gardner and Lap of Love have been featured in Entrepreneur Magazine, The New York Times, the Associated Press, The Doctors and numerous professional veterinary publications. She is co-author of the textbook “The Treatment and Care of the Veterinary Patient”, co-author of a children’s activity book focused on saying goodbye to a dog called “Forever Friend”, and the author of a book dedicated to pet owners “It’s Never Long Enough: A practical guide to caring for your geriatric dog”. Dr. Gardner also won VMX Small Animal Speaker of the year in 2020!
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