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Russian
00:00:05
Stand-up comedian Ruslan Belyi and psychoanalyst Olga Kuznetsova read the letters and discuss these stories through the lens of their personal experience, worldview and professional skills.00:00:11
The authors of those letters remain anonymous. This format has no answers or guidelines to follow. We just want to talk. Enjoy the show!00:00:23
It's funny: I was watching a girl...00:00:26
She's an up-and-coming... Not up-and-coming, but a relatively unknown stand-up comic.00:00:30
She was on “The Storytelling Show” on YouTube.00:00:32
She was telling about her experience with anal sex.00:00:36
And for how long she was preparing for it. She was telling how she spent the whole day getting ready...00:00:43
And in passing she told a little joke there...00:00:46
She said: “I'm amazed by how gay guys are always ready for that.”00:00:50
She was telling a long story of how...00:00:53
I watched that and even thought to myself: “Oh man... That's it.”00:00:59
There's a little bit of drama there:00:01:01
she spent the whole day preparing, but he didn't come.00:01:05
— Ah!
— Yes!00:01:06
So I was like: “Oh crap... I definitely did that once!”00:01:10
You know...00:01:13
It's very bad.00:01:14
You find yourself in every scoundrel.00:01:17
It's because we're all the same. I came to this conclusion a long time ago: all men are the same.00:01:22
I mean, if you think that you're the only one doing that, everyone's doing that.00:01:27
And in the same goddamn manner. It's almost like...00:01:31
A friend of mine, she's a blogger... I think I've already told this story. She was telling how...00:01:37
Like, she was tired after a long day and all that,00:01:40
and the guy then texts her: “Send my your puss.”00:01:45
I was like: “Fuck, he even spells the word the same way!”
You know.00:01:49
It's completely the same.00:01:52
So yeah, we men are like templates.00:01:55
You know, it's like some plant is making us like identical shells.00:01:58
Then someone maybe paints us differently, like Khokhloma or something... But basically it's all the same.00:02:05
I dunno. I've discussed this bit of hers... Not a bit, but this story about, let's say, unsuccessful anal sex with other comics, young comics,00:02:15
and they were more critical. Like: “So what? It's not funny!”00:02:19
Like that.00:02:20
So I think that you become more tolerant with age, you know.00:02:26
Towards comedy?00:02:27
In general. Towards comedy, people, behavior, events,00:02:31
things you don't understand or maybe you've looked negatively at.00:02:35
It's fascinating to watch how a comedian moves on from protest, as it should be,00:02:41
— towards the father, the government or current events, and transforms into a mature comic.
— Kind of, yeah.00:02:46
Because if you are of Louis CK's age, and you're still protesting against...00:02:51
He's not doing that. I think that he changed in a great way.00:02:54
— Differently.
— Well, yeah.00:02:56
I know that he's a classic example, and everyone talks about him,00:02:59
but I think that he and some Western comics managed to do that.00:03:02
I would love to be Louis CK just for one thing.00:03:07
— Do you know that story he went through?
— Yeah.00:03:09
He got swept up by that MeToo story with harassment and all that.00:03:13
That he used to, unfortunately, masturbate in front of young female comics.00:03:19
Kind of with their consent, but it's not clear.00:03:23
And he began his latest show with... This is why I'd love to become Louis CK.00:03:26
Like, he takes the stage, and he says: “So how was YOUR year?”00:03:29
Yeah, yeah.00:03:30
— And he... Yes.
— He did shows in Europe, right?00:03:33
He says: “I lost millions of dollars this year.”00:03:36
Here's why I would love to be him.00:03:38
I would love to sit here and say:00:03:40
“You know, Olya, last year I lost millions of dollars.”00:03:45
Because it seems like that's not his whole fortune.00:03:48
I mean, he didn't lose everything.00:03:50
Otherwise he would've said: “I lost everything.”00:03:53
But he says that he just lost millions of dollars.00:03:55
So, he still has some millions of dollars.00:04:04
“Good whatever time of day applies, Ruslan and Olga!00:04:07
My name is Maria. I'm 20 years old.00:04:09
When I was 15, I lost my father, and since then I knew that there's no superhero who will take care of me, pay for me, etc.00:04:15
That's why I started to take responsibility and distance myself from my mom and grandma.00:04:20
I became independent financially by the time I was 18.”00:04:23
Holy crap!00:04:24
“I was planning my life and dealt with my problems.00:04:27
Right now I'm in college, I have a side job and I live with my brother.00:04:30
My mom retired: she moved to the dacha like she wanted to, and she farms there.00:04:34
There's one problem: I can't build relationships.00:04:37
I've tried a couple of times, it didn't work, and right now it's the same thing:00:04:40
I met someone I'm interested in romantically,00:04:43
but I can't open up to him and trust him.00:04:45
It's the same problem as before and also with my friends and pals.00:04:49
I can't trust someone fully and talk about my personal struggles.00:04:52
I always feel like a person won't be interested or even worse —00:04:55
they will use this information later.”00:04:59
It's like she's from the FSB or something.00:05:02
“I realize that every relationship is built on trust, and that all these fears are nonsense,00:05:07
but I still can't. I've noticed this about myself a long time ago and I've been trying to figure out why.00:05:11
I think it's because of my father: he suffered from alcoholism and often broke my trust when I was a kid.00:05:17
But realizing where this fear comes from didn't really help with solving the issue.00:05:20
I still can't open up to people. What should I do? Thanks in advance for the answer.”00:05:28
I don't know why I said in the beginning that I want to understand everything and everyone...00:05:32
It seems to me that there's no problem here, basically.00:05:36
I mean, the girl is 20, she can't build relationships...00:05:39
It's okay when you're 20 years old, no?00:05:42
No, obviously, she has no trust towards men,00:05:45
because they either leave her or die.00:05:49
Ugh! Here we go, that's it — I'm not interested anymore.00:05:52
Here we go again about that stuff.00:05:55
They either leave or die...00:05:57
Wait, what do you mean? Here it's just the father.00:06:00
The influence is that strong?00:06:03
Look, I'm more interested in where does this idea of having to open up to people come from?00:06:11
What, one should be mysterious?00:06:13
No, I just want to say that maybe you should get to know other people.00:06:19
Please explain — I don't get it.00:06:20
— Because it's like a two-way street.
— Okay.00:06:23
If you don't want to open up, you supposedly don't communicate and don't really get to know the other person.00:06:29
If you're constantly thinking that they will use this information against you.00:06:35
So basically, I want to say to her that you don't have to open up from the start.00:06:40
You can hang out for some time, get to know the other person.00:06:43
But she says that about friends as well. It seems like friends00:06:48
have been around longer, you know.00:06:51
— Well, yeah. But there's still no trust.
— But she doesn't open up to them as well.00:06:55
Well, yeah. Maybe she doesn't know much about friends as well.00:06:58
I might say a pretty trite, arrogant or common thought, but...00:07:02
But maybe you shouldn't be like that at 20?00:07:05
I remember myself at 20, and I was an incredibly closeted person.00:07:09
And there were no issues with that. As I remember it.00:07:12
I don't know why she's so introspective about it...00:07:16
But I'm like: “It's okay. Why should I tell everyone...”00:07:18
On the contrary: I'm so mysterious and all that, you know.00:07:23
The only thing I needed was a hat to leave wearing it.00:07:26
That's what I mean.00:07:28
I didn't open up to anybody: not to my friends, not to my parents... Especially not to my parents.00:07:33
Parents are a whole... I think I still don't do that. so...00:07:37
— And no problem!
— Seems that way!00:07:40
Seems that way.00:07:42
It also seems like writing a letter is a way for her to open up.00:07:46
To take that step.00:07:48
But here's the deal: it feels like she didn't really tell us anything.00:07:51
Suppose there was something she wanted to say, but she couldn't tell it anybody, and here's a chance to do that anonymously, so I'm going to tell you.00:08:00
But what did she tell us, basically?00:08:02
“It's hard for me to open up to people.”
It's hard for everybody to open up to people! No?00:08:07
— No, I think not!
— Okay...00:08:09
I'm sure of it!00:08:11
Who's the most communicative here? Who's like...00:08:14
I have my buddy Lyoha like that, but...00:08:17
I'm not sure that's a good thing, you know?00:08:19
Sometimes... I've witnesses him meeting new people, and he dumps some kind of info on them, so I'm like:00:08:28
“Well, okay... I guess you'll handle it later!”00:08:31
You know? Like...00:08:33
I sometimes have that when I hear someone, I want to come up and say: “Don't tell that anyone again!”00:08:38
— That's what I'm saying!
— So not everybody is like that. So...00:08:42
She's struggling because of it. She can't build relationships.00:08:46
And on the whole, there are so many letters00:08:50
from children of alcoholics!00:08:53
During this filming period at least.00:08:55
People who are struggling and are not able to communicate with people or...00:09:00
I mean, being a closeted person and not being able to talk to people00:09:05
because you see them as people who use information against you —00:09:10
these are two different things, I think.00:09:14
Look...00:09:18
I'm trying to articulate an idea that might be contradicting to this whole format of our show.00:09:26
What I mean is...00:09:28
She's 20. And she's like: “I have some issues.”00:09:32
And she starts to create drama about it.00:09:37
People are supposed to have issues. No? You say there are a lot of letters from children of alcoholics.00:09:42
Well, I'm sure there are a lot of kids of abusers, tyrants,00:09:46
kids from two-parent families, from broken homes,00:09:49
kids with stepfathers... You know.00:09:51
Maybe someone was murdered, so on and so on. I mean...00:09:55
I mean, psychology is great. I even wanted to trash psychologists initially, but now I think that...00:10:00
Man, it's like a Pandora's box — everything will be put in that basket.00:10:06
Any obstacle in life, and you're like:00:10:09
“Ah! I need to see a psychologist! I can't deal with this!”00:10:12
Meanwhile you simply haven't done your math homework, you know?00:10:15
That's what I mean.00:10:18
No? Well, first of all, people who don't need it never really end up visiting a psychologist, you know.00:10:25
It must really hurt for you to go there.00:10:29
Or you go see a shrink just to try it, because you feel like you're really progressive...00:10:34
Look, again: I don't want to kind of bully her verbally or mentally,00:10:39
but this is really your pain at 20?00:10:43
“I can't open up to people”? Nobody can open up at 20! Nobody.00:10:49
You're smiling like that, as if there's some mystery inside!00:10:54
— Well, okay!
— Were you open to this world at 20 years old?00:10:58
— Well, yeah.
— Yeah?00:11:00
It was easy for you to trust people and let them in?00:11:03
— 20 years old is junior year of college, right?
— Right.00:11:06
Yes, I was hanging out with a bunch of people, it was easy for me...00:11:09
— I wasn't closeted.
— No, hanging out is one thing. She has friends as well.00:11:13
She didn't write: “I have no friends! I don't leave my home! I only play “Call of Duty”!”00:11:18
That I would understand.00:11:21
But she has friends. She simply doesn't tell them everything.00:11:24
Were you telling your friends everything?00:11:26
All the things that bothered me, yes.00:11:31
— I didn't do that — that's what I mean.
— I get it!00:11:33
— It wasn't a problem at all for me! Yep, yep, yep.
— You're like: “I could have written this letter! It wasn't a problem!”00:11:40
Well, she told us that she sees a reason for that in growing up in a family of an alcoholic, so...00:11:48
She had to become an adult really early.00:11:51
The only think we can tell people in cases like that, where...00:11:57
I mean, something happened to their parents, so they had to mature early.00:12:01
Don't look for parents that you'll never have. Those “perfect” parents that you'd like to have.00:12:08
And become a hypothetical mom or dad for yourself.00:12:12
Just stop and start thinking: “Okay, now I'm taking care of myself as if I'm a little child.”00:12:19
Start finding out what needs you have, what wishes you have...00:12:24
And it's cool to start doing that at 20 and not at 30, 40 or 50.00:12:29
Find out what you really like and how to take care of yourself, so that you feel good.00:12:34
Start doing that for yourself. And when you know something about yourself...00:12:38
And unfortunately, I suspect she knows nothing about herself other than what she wrote here.00:12:43
When you know who you are and the way you're set up,00:12:46
what you like and what you don't like, your language of love, the way you treat people...00:12:51
You don't need to throw yourself open to everybody. But knowing something about yourself, you'll be able to meet someone who will be a good match for you.00:13:02
And it's again...00:13:03
Because if you know nothing about yourself, you can't match with someone else.00:13:07
That's great. But again, it all comes down to a couple?00:13:13
No, I'm not saying she should jump into a relationship right now.00:13:17
Getting to know yourself and taking care of yourself is like...00:13:21
It's like a tango with yourself.00:13:23
That lasts a lifetime!00:13:25
But the earlier you start asking yourself that...00:13:28
For instance, I started to ask myself what I really like...00:13:31
Am I doing this because it seemed cool to me, or because my parents expected that from me?00:13:37
I started asking myself that much later.00:13:39
I mean, I just didn't have this idea.00:13:41
I started asking that, like, 5 years ago.00:13:44
So you're saying: “20 years old — come on!”00:13:46
And I think the earlier you get to know yourself,00:13:49
the earlier you learn your limits and realize that enough with blaming your childhood or girlhood,00:13:57
that you can simply be that parent for yourself,00:14:01
the more paths you'll have in life.00:14:03
Don't you think that if all the 20-year-olds start getting to know themselves really well,00:14:10
realize what they want, what they love and so on...00:14:15
— Then the world will be happier.
— No. We'll get 6 billion photographers. You know?00:14:23
And one billion artists who will do paintings. That's what I'm saying.00:14:29
“You're not talented!”00:14:31
Maybe if I had started to get to know myself at 20,00:14:33
you know, the way the world is right now, I would've been like: “Oh! That's it!”00:14:38
It all comes down to “I don't want to decide anything — I want uppy!”00:14:42
You know, something like that.00:14:44
Seems that way.00:14:46
Like: “Get to know yourself! What do you want?”00:14:48
To fucking enjoy this life — that's what!00:14:51
Enjoying this life has nothing to do with a thing called “work”.00:14:56
— It's not quite like that
— It is!00:14:58
If you find something that fills you up, that's great.00:15:01
At one point I thought that creative work fills me up. When I started doing stand-up and all that.00:15:07
If you ask me right now if I'm ready not to do it...00:15:10
I'll get up and go somewhere right now if you want me to! To get to know myself.00:15:14
Especially it's summer right now — wonderful!00:15:17
You have a bad back — you won't go far now!00:15:21
Look, but...00:15:22
What I'm trying to say is that perhaps all the hardships like this that a person encounters throughout their life...00:15:29
Maybe you shouldn't find answers so early. Maybe it will lead you to a place where you should be.00:15:34
Look, you find answers exactly when you ask questions.00:15:38
If you ask the question at 40, you'll find the answer at 40. If you ask the question at 20, you'll find the answer at 20.00:15:45
— That's what I'm saying.
— So when you say, like...00:15:48
You're saying there will be 6 billion photographers in the world —00:15:50
well, you're saying that from a parental point of view.00:15:54
— “What do you mean “getting to know yourself”? Go to a military school! We've decided that!
— Yep. Kind of, yeah.00:15:58
— What do you mean “an actor”? What is that?”
— Kind of like that.00:16:01
I mean, there are always two sides.00:16:04
Some people want to teach sense and tell that life is not about joy, you know.00:16:10
And define what happiness is.00:16:14
Kind of like that.00:16:16
But in some other instances you're pro-freedom and fulfillment...00:16:22
“It's great when a person knows what they want at 14!”00:16:26
Again, I might be wrong, but the letter didn't bring up00:16:31
any empathy in me, so that I'd be like...00:16:34
— What's the problem?
— Yes!00:16:37
— We lived like that, so you live like that!
— Can't open up to people at 20 years old — that's totally, totally okay.00:16:41
Maybe you just don't trust them. Maybe you don't have the necessary circle of friends yet.00:16:46
Maybe they're just starting to appear. I mean...00:16:48
Everybody want to meet the one — that person to spend the rest of your life with...00:16:52
But it's the same with friends.00:16:55
You gotta meet that friend as well.00:16:57
You can hang out with people for 5, 6, 10 years, but don't consider them friends, you know.00:17:03
Look, do you think that this young generation, who are like 20 years old,00:17:08
has this idea that you need to meet the one for your whole life?00:17:11
I don't know.00:17:13
I think that these reference points are changing quite a bit.00:17:19
I don't give a crap.00:17:22
I really don't care, you know... Let them do what they want.00:17:27
That's why I'm trying to lead this to something common — not just this letter.00:17:30
To talk about these young people in general00:17:34
who are other than being free and creative, which is good, obviously,00:17:38
and we shouldn't protest that...00:17:41
But other than becoming so free and creative, they are also so depressed.00:17:48
You know?00:17:49
As if this generation was supposed to be a happy generation thanks to all these opportunities,00:17:54
but you started to feel sad for some reason under this sun. That's what I mean.00:17:58
I mean, my generation...00:18:00
When I was 20, everything was complete shit, you know.00:18:03
But I remember it so fondly! 20 years old — that was cool.00:18:08
But they have so many opportunities,00:18:10
and they're like: “Man, I can't open up to anybody!”00:18:12
Maybe you should fucking leave those goddamn social media sites, huh?00:18:17
And open up to people. But you opened up...00:18:19
You all have opened up as people who are not really you! No?00:18:22
That is also a big topic, but I think...00:18:24
You can't open up on social media.00:18:26
You post something, and you get hate immediately: “Whore! Cunt! Cocksucker!”00:18:31
You know?00:18:32
And then we read: “I can't open up to anybody!”00:18:35
That's what I mean.00:18:39
I think it's also difficult to trust the world00:18:42
when so much responsibility fell on you at 20 years old.00:18:45
Her mom retired, she's living with her brother,00:18:49
so she kind of had to replace her father.00:18:52
So then you don't have time for yourself,00:18:55
for getting to know yourself, for opening up to people...00:18:58
I mean, she doesn't seem like an infantile 20-year-old girl to me00:19:03
who is simply sad because she didn't have a lovely childhood.00:19:09
She seems like... If she became independent at 18 and is living with her younger father... No, not father — younger brother.00:19:16
And her mom retired...00:19:18
So it looks like she at 20 years old the girl became the head of the family.00:19:29
“Hello, dear Ruslan and Olga!00:19:31
First of all, huge thanks for “Other People's Letters” — sometimes there really is no one to ask for advice.00:19:36
My name is Maksim, I'm 23 years old. I have a girlfriend, and we've been dating for a year and a half.00:19:40
Let's call her Alisa. It's my first serious relationship.00:19:43
But recently a girl appeared in my life who started to show affection to me.00:19:47
There's nothing between us.00:19:49
After a few times we've met I noticed the difference in how they treat me.00:19:52
This girl — let's call her Katya...”00:19:54
Here we go — a whole riddle with a thousand names...00:19:58
“This girl — let's call her Katya — listens to me when I'm talking about something,00:20:03
tries to encourage me, doesn't take offense at little things, doesn't mess with my head, etc.00:20:07
Of course, she has her own quirks, but they are less apparent because of the way she acts with me.00:20:14
“Alisa, on the other hand...”
That's his current girlfriend.00:20:17
“She take offense at little things, starts fights for whatever reason,00:20:21
doesn't talk to me about issues in our relationship00:20:23
and tries to forbid me a lot of things, including being friends with some people and so on.00:20:28
I've been thinking about breaking up with Alisa for the last few weeks.00:20:31
Not because now there is Katya, but because I saw how people can treat me.00:20:35
I also realized that I can live a calm life without constant yelling and fighting for no reason.00:20:40
Here's the question: should I be bothered at all because I saw the difference in attitude towards me?00:20:46
Maybe I just need a break from relationships.00:20:48
We live separately with Alisa, so I'm being held not as much by certain feelings, but by habit, I guess.00:20:54
Every day she used to text me “Good morning!”, call me at work, meet me after work...00:20:58
Although I can't say that this relationship was really constant, because we used to meet once every few days and for a couple of hours.00:21:04
I have irregular working hours.00:21:06
Plus, I can't let a person go mentally and realize that she can live without me.00:21:11
I always worry: “How is she over there? How can she live without me?”
And so on.”00:21:16
Holy crap, dude!00:21:18
“Thanks you in advance for the answer”, blah-blah-blah.00:21:21
Well, look... She'll definitely survive without you.00:21:24
That's for sure!00:21:26
I mean, you're not artificial ventilation during the coronavirus pandemic. Right?00:21:34
— Yeah, I also think...
— It's funny how...00:21:37
His ego won anyway. The dude is like: “Crap, it's all so bad! We're fighting,00:21:41
she doesn't get me, forbids me stuff...00:21:43
But then I think: how will she cope without me?”
Like...00:21:49
I fully agree with you that one person will always survive without the other one.00:21:53
Yeah, it's like the main thing...00:21:56
If we start with the first part of the letter,00:21:59
you know, it's interesting when one compares the attitude of someone who they've just met00:22:04
— with the attitude of people who've been in a relationship for some time.
— Sure.00:22:08
Relationships are a dynamic thing.00:22:10
So, the closer people become for each other,00:22:13
the more temptation there is to mess with the other person's head.00:22:17
Or to care for the other one — it's all depends.00:22:21
So, comparing this attitude from Alisa who you've just met is incorrect in principle.00:22:27
And I think, people quite often forget about this —00:22:33
you're at different stages of communicating with people when you compare it.00:22:37
Yeah, but you see, I guess here it's all about the fact that when you meet somebody,00:22:42
you start fantasizing about something.00:22:45
Because of this, let's say, good mood you're getting.00:22:49
So you start fantasizing about something good.00:22:51
And his current girlfriend who's nagging him makes him fantasize about something bad.00:22:57
And that, you know, drives these extremes even further apart. That's what I mean.00:23:04
Look, this letter makes me feel like...00:23:07
I think him and Alisa both mess with each other's heads.00:23:12
So their couples seems like a...00:23:15
I call it psychosomatic — I mean, they are a good match.00:23:19
And this thing when “It's not the fact that I like someone else — I just saw how I can be treated...”00:23:25
To me it looks like flirting.00:23:27
And the fact that in the end he says “How will she live without me?” makes us both laugh,00:23:33
but I think it's because we witness projecting. Again.00:23:37
I guess that he can't imagine living without her, despite how he's kind of cocky about it...00:23:45
You're projecting when you think that the other person won't be able to live without you — that's most likely your own fear.00:23:51
— And not theirs.
— Yes! That's clear, yes.00:23:54
But you're kind of delusional in this fear of yours.00:23:57
What does it mean? You won't survive or something?00:24:00
— Well, this means they came together in a way that he needs her...00:24:05
People can survive on desert islands on their own! That's fine, no problem. But here... What is this?00:24:11
Look, it's interesting to compare whether you'll survive on a desert island or not00:24:18
and how scary it is to face rejection or some pain...00:24:22
As if it's even worse than physical death.00:24:25
Goddamnit, here we go again!00:24:28
The dude is 23 years old!00:24:30
Are you completely fucking nuts?00:24:32
You don't want to suffer in life AT ALL?00:24:35
You know?00:24:37
It's just a relationship! You've been dating a girl for a year and a half.00:24:40
By the time you're 35 you'll have 20, 10, 5 or 7 such relationships.00:24:46
And you'll just be saying: “I've had many different relationships in my life.”00:24:50
And here it's the first one, and it's like: “Oh, I dunno, man...00:24:55
Will she survive without me? Or will I survive without her?00:24:58
So this is how I can be treated?”00:25:02
Okay, I get it — I'm gonna be hating on stuff for this whole episode!00:25:08
Please come up with a role for me in this episode!00:25:11
— You're psychoanalyst!
— I'm not ready to be a defender for 20-year-olds!00:25:15
See, I don't know — the letters came up this way!00:25:19
Previously we had episodes where a woman had a kid from another man and doesn't know whether to tell him or not,00:25:25
and here it's: “Man, I dunno...00:25:28
That one treats me differently than this one!”00:25:31
You know what I'm saying?00:25:33
The scales have different...00:25:35
— Stories of different weight.
— Isn't it true that you can always find someone who'll treat your better than your partner?00:25:41
— Especially when they're trying to woo you.
— Of course.00:25:45
You're always like: “Ah, I see! You came in here all sad, you don't talk to me...00:25:51
Meanwhile my phone's ringing off the hook over there, I get flowers,00:25:55
and you're sitting here unhappy!00:25:57
No, I mean, you can break up with this Alisa, start dating this Katya,00:26:02
and then a hypothetical Nina will come in who will be better than that Katya. That's it.00:26:08
Of course, of course. Look, I have a...00:26:11
One female buddy of mine says, like: “I love the beginning of flirting!”00:26:17
Like, it's as if she doesn't care about the following relationship. But this first period when you're constantly texting, you know...00:26:23
I mean, maybe you haven't even gone on a date yet — you've exchanged phone numbers, and you start texting...00:26:28
She says: “I love it! It's the best way to pass the time!”00:26:32
Basically, it's true, because you're completely different people then. Right?00:26:37
It's like you're making fresh juice — you squeeze all the best things out of yourself...00:26:42
You're like: “There you go! Go, show yourself!”00:26:46
I came up with a sociological poll for The Levada Center*.
*Russian polling and sociological research organization00:26:49
I mean, right now they can't do any polls that have something to do with Putin, so...00:26:54
So I came up with a different poll.00:26:57
It would be cool for them to show up in 3 places. Basically, a park, a movie theater and a restaurant.00:27:05
And then they ask all the couples there how long they've been together.00:27:10
It seems to me that in parks it's the couples that are just starting dating,00:27:16
the couples who are more or less dating are in movie theaters,00:27:19
and restaurants are filled with couples who've been dating for a long time or live together.00:27:25
It's the level of investment in a girl?00:27:27
No, I think it's the level of romance, you know.00:27:32
— When you've just met, you're like: ”Ah!
— We have different perception!00:27:36
Let's go somewhere cute!”
You know...00:27:39
— Like, the Patriarch's Ponds or something like that. Yes! To the park...
— To the park?00:27:44
Then, you're more or less a couple already...00:27:48
When you need to spend time together. You NEED to. Not because you want to — you need to.00:27:53
You go to the movies. You kind of spend time together, but you don't talk for 2 hours.00:27:58
Something like that.00:27:59
And in restaurants people are like: “Okay, we gotta do stuff. Let's go at least grab a bite.”00:28:04
Like, you combine your time together with food.00:28:08
You need to eat anyway, so at least you're...00:28:11
— That's what I thought.
— That's funny.00:28:14
Yep.00:28:16
I've been studying dating sites recently and what kind of new features they implement or going to implement.00:28:25
And I had this impression that everything they come up with is geared not towards finding a partner, although that comes first, of course,00:28:36
but towards understanding yourself.00:28:38
You know, I often say to these letters: start getting to know yourself,00:28:44
become a parent to yourself, ask questions...00:28:46
So, you know, the feature that's anticipated right now00:28:51
is that a camera will be used to read your eyes' reaction to the photos you see on a dating site.00:28:58
So, based on this data you'll know who appeals to you.00:29:01
— Choose your type.
— Yes, yes.00:29:03
To learn your type or see who among girls or guys you like and what your reaction is.00:29:09
They hook up a heart rate sensor, and...00:29:12
And then it gets so much more advanced that...00:29:16
So, after I looked that up, I remembered that episode of “Black Mirror”.00:29:21
So later it will tell you that if you choose her, based on your reaction...
— Yeah, that's crazy.00:29:26
So it's as if you yourself can't choose who you like. This one is nice, that one... You know.00:29:31
But a computer will clearly show you the way your body reacts.00:29:37
Yeah, these new technologies are amazing.00:29:42
— Imagine: you go on a dating site, you spent a week there...
— They choose for you!00:29:47
In a week there's a knock on the door —00:29:49
it's from the FSB. They're fucking like: “We're recruiting you.”00:29:52
You know, somehow based on your reactions and all that you're a good fit for them.00:29:58
— “People don't interest you!”
— I mean... Kind of like that, yes!00:30:01
We learned that you're incredibly patriotic, you can keep a secret,00:30:05
and you're open to new horizons, money don't interested you, etc.00:30:09
Roughly speaking, like that.00:30:11
— The notion of happiness is unknown to you.
— Yeah.00:30:13
If they can, as you say, register your emotions from your eyes, heart rate, body temperature or your behavior,00:30:20
then what's stopping them?00:30:22
I dunno. When I become an old geezer, I'll definitely believe шт those conspiracy theories, you know.00:30:27
I'll delete all my accounts...00:30:29
— Please, no!
— I'll have a landline, you know...00:30:33
It'll be in 30 years or so — imagine how advanced technology and all that will become.00:30:38
I'll be that guy who's yelling towards the sky: “WHAT DO YOU NEED?!”00:30:43
Something like that.00:30:45
I always ask people like that: why do you think that YOU will be the one being watched?00:30:49
It doesn't matter — it's my old age!00:30:51
Olga, I'm learning things about myself. I got to know myself...00:30:55
It's my old age — that's the way I want to go fucking crazy.00:31:06
“Olga and Ruslan, hello!00:31:07
Right now there's a lot of talk about codependency in all its possible versions.00:31:12
There's tons of information available on that.00:31:15
However, there's almost no talk about counterdependency.00:31:19
I guess because it's not that thrilling and has less to do with numerous newsworthy events or scandals.00:31:25
That's what I want to talk about in this letter.00:31:27
So, I'm a counterdependent person.”00:31:30
Will you explain what this means later? Yep.00:31:33
“I won't talk about the numerous reasons — they are scattered throughout my life journey.00:31:38
So, I'm scared of close relationships, and I almost completely gave them up.00:31:42
I have pretty serious trust issues.00:31:44
Also, I don't want to part with the feeling of freedom.00:31:48
Moreover, it scares me.00:31:50
And although I'm rather positive and communicative, and as Olga said, a savior according to horoscope,00:31:55
it's all exterior.00:31:57
No, I don't pretend or force myself to be friendly with people.00:32:00
But it's all to a certain extent.00:32:03
I have two people in my closest circle, and even with them I'm more comfortable talking on the phone.00:32:08
I block and gently move back everyone behind the barrier who tries to become closer.”00:32:12
This is like a distillation of two previous letters, right?00:32:17
“As you might have guessed, this attitude towards people affects my personal life.00:32:21
To talk about nothing over a cup of coffee — easy!00:32:23
Talking heart to heart — okay, but only about you.00:32:26
There's almost no info about me,00:32:28
but I'm a great listener, and I can give advice or support you in hour of need.00:32:32
Usually my relationships boil down to regular hookups.00:32:35
And I'd rather go spend the night at home.00:32:38
I don't suffer from it, I'm not bothered by it — I'm comfortable this way.00:32:41
I stopped caring about public pressure a long time ago.00:32:44
But there was a time I couldn't understand why I can't build a relationship like everyone does.00:32:49
And I, being a wise-ass, have found a solution — a long-distance relationship!00:32:53
It's much easier: you're far away, you live separate lives, and you twiddle romantically on the phone at night.00:32:58
And I'm again free to do what I want — perfect.00:33:01
I've had several relationships like that.00:33:03
I also had a period when I had unrequited love for 4 years.00:33:07
I wasn't looking for other relationships, because “Ah! I don't need anyone else.”00:33:11
That stopped people from asking.00:33:13
I've been trying on my own for a long time to get my head together,00:33:17
to dot the i's and cross the t's, to figure things out and sort my issues, hopes, grievances, fears and beliefs,00:33:22
other people's expectations and opinions, and my guilt from not matching them.00:33:25
And although right now I think that I've found my peace, and I'm comfortable,00:33:30
I still realize that it's not really healthy,00:33:34
and the fact that I learned how to turn a blind eye to my problems and live with them00:33:38
doesn't make them disappear.00:33:39
Maybe my own inaction takes away something vital and necessary from me.00:33:44
Someday I'll finally try therapy, but I'm not totally sure.00:33:48
Thank you for hearing me out.”00:33:50
Okay, what is a counterdependent person?00:33:53
I don't know such a term.00:33:54
I think she came up with it herself.00:33:57
Maybe she read it somewhere...00:33:59
— Oh, so it codependent and counterdependent relationships?
— She's counterdependent, yes.00:34:03
I guess she's talking about being social phobic.00:34:07
But...00:34:09
The reality is, we all have relations with each other.00:34:15
And not being in any relationship...00:34:19
No being in relationships at all is impossible.00:34:23
And counterdependency is...00:34:25
I mean, there are dependent relationships,00:34:27
there are codependent relationships...00:34:29
I mean, any relationship is in fact dependent.00:34:32
The term “codependent relationship” is when your partner is dependent on alcohol, and you're dependent on him.00:34:40
That's codependency.00:34:42
There is this triangle,00:34:44
where you're either rescuing him or chasing him...00:34:48
So, anyway...00:34:50
What I can tell her is, good for you! She figured it all out neatly. If there's no question, write us later when there will be one.00:34:57
But I think the fact that she wrote this letter means that she feels some sort of deficit.00:35:02
Yes, she did everything to be comfortable: she pushed everyone out, came up with long-distance relationships...00:35:09
But she feels that deficit, so she writes to us about that.00:35:13
And perhaps she's envious of people who derive pleasure from relationships.00:35:19
But it's impossible for her.00:35:21
Well, I mean...00:35:23
Often there is...00:35:25
I'm in no way saying this about this girl,00:35:28
but we've discussed this thing when sociopaths00:35:32
have this trait when they are very surprised00:35:35
by how ordinary people get satisfaction and get a kick out of things that are unavailable to them.00:35:44
They derive joy from simply two people being together,00:35:47
or, I don't know, from their children, from family holidays...00:35:52
It's all so alien and odd to them, so they look at it surprised:00:35:56
“Seriously? This can bring joy?”00:35:59
And it's as if she's looking at people building relationships — after all, she pushed everyone back and figured it out —00:36:05
and she's saying: “Wow! You can do that? And you can derive joy from it?”00:36:10
There is a little bit of arrogance, I get what you're saying.00:36:14
But it's not even...00:36:15
Yeah, I guess there is a little bit of arrogance as well.00:36:18
But usually, the more sociopathic you are, the more probable is that you're simply curious about all that.00:36:25
It's like when you're watching the animal world or National Geographic. You're like:00:36:30
“Oh! So that's how it works for you! Not that I'm really envious, but...” You know?00:36:34
Because I guess at some point you start thinking that YOU are at the higher stage of development.00:36:40
You know? So, you don't need people to be here.00:36:43
So yeah, just like you're saying, you watch people like you're at the petting zoo:00:36:47
“Ah, you, like, can't live without each other at all? My god!”00:36:50
You know?00:36:51
— So you... Yeah, yeah!
— “Like, she won't survive without you?”00:36:53
Like, you're homo sapiens, and they are all neanderthals.00:36:58
That was a surprise for me: as it turns out, they coexisted, but homo sapiens simply killed off all the neanderthals.00:37:05
It's like it's the same here.00:37:08
All these sociopaths and social phobic people are like at a different stage,00:37:13
and they are looking at others like: “Hey, are you serious?00:37:16
We now have the internet, smart TVs, social media and all that.00:37:20
You don't need people, come on.00:37:21
Walking in the park? Then you'll go to the movies, then — the restaurant...00:37:26
I've been through that.”00:37:28
— Kind of, yeah.
— Right.00:37:30
And of course, if... If she is, let's be honest, moving in that direction,00:37:36
then it's a sad picture.00:37:38
I just think that this is what causes pain, you know.00:37:43
You begin to think that being alone is great,00:37:46
you become arrogant towards those who play volleyball —00:37:51
you need 6 people for that. You're like: “For fuck's sake, how can you do that?”00:37:56
And you think that it's the right path for you to go down to,00:38:00
but unfortunately, nobody is walking down that path with you.00:38:04
I mean, everyone else is still together,00:38:07
and overall, you become disillusioned, because you went down the wrong path.00:38:12
That is, everybody stayed there...00:38:16
— Know what I'm saying?
— Yeah, yeah.00:38:18
And you're like: “Damn, fine! I wanna be with you!”00:38:21
— And they...
— Maybe you're the one who's dumb — not them!00:38:24
— Basically.
— Yeah, kind of, kind of.00:38:27
You're like: “Okay, I wanna be with you!”
And they're like: “Hey, you're a sociopath — we get it!00:38:31
Don't hang out with her. She's at a different stage...”
You know?00:38:35
I mean, people won't let you back that quickly. That's what I mean.00:38:39
Only in comedy movies, when you walk out the forest all fucking chewed up and lonely,00:38:45
and people are like: “Come here! We'll barbecue!”00:38:49
— That's a cool analogy, by the way. Chewed up by your loneliness.
— That's the way it is.00:38:54
I had a period like that. I also thought that...00:38:58
I had a harsh job, I've just come to Moscow, I had to work a lot,00:39:03
so I thought: “That's the only way I spend my time...”00:39:07
And then I'm like: “I don't freaking need anyone. I have a goal, and I'm working on it — that's it. That's cool.”00:39:12
And then I had a period when... You know, like a crater that you can't get out of.00:39:18
That's why I decided that I gotta work less and vacation more.00:39:22
When you're on vacation, you're inevitably with people, you know.00:39:27
And in cool places. That's why I love surfing: it's always new people.00:39:31
— That's cool.
— Yeah, there's no obvious hierarchy...00:39:34
Right, right, right!00:39:36
And you can be yourself there.00:39:38
I mean...00:39:39
I dunno...00:39:40
— Go on excursions!
— Yeah, yeah!00:39:43
It's not world capitals where you need to, I don't know...00:39:46
I didn't like Monaco — there's nothing to do there.00:39:49
There are clubs where you have to wear the best clothes and pretend you're incredibly successful...00:39:54
You don't need that when you're surfing. You're wearing shorts, and often...00:39:59
You swim wearing them, walk wearing them, sleep wearing them, you know.00:40:03
It's like a commune, you know! You're like hippies, but you don't have long hair.00:40:08
That's cool. You don't need to pretend. Other people don't pretend as well — you're simply hanging out.00:40:13
And you don't have to become close — everyone will leave.00:40:16
You know, like...00:40:18
Maybe one or two people will become your pals....00:40:23
By the way, that can sound like a nice piece of advice to people who are looking for contact.00:40:29
It's a very safe way to...00:40:32
I mean, you can separate yourself there if you need to.00:40:35
— You don't need to do everything with other people.
— Sure, sure!00:40:38
But it's also a low barrier of entry.00:40:40
— Everyone goes to party, everyone gets invited...
— It's very friendly — that's the main thing. Very friendly.00:40:46
I went to one camp, and...00:40:49
I went for a long time, so I saw several groups of people. Usually people come in for a week and leave.00:40:55
And it was funny when I'm sitting there, a new camp comes in, new people,00:41:00
and I'm looking at them visually like: “Fuck... They're so lame!” You know?00:41:06
And then two days later you're fucking amazed by how wrong your first impression of someone was.00:41:12
They turn out to be such cool people...00:41:16
I don't remember their names, maybe they're watching...00:41:19
They came in, and I thought they were complete scum.00:41:22
I mean, they looked the part. They almost had bangs like that, you know.00:41:26
And then we started to hang out, and these guys turned out to be so funny and cool!00:41:32
One of them has lost their phone, and we mocked him hard for a couple of days! Hard!00:41:37
We were afraid to mock him at first, but his best friend started to mock him so hard,00:41:42
so we're like: “Okay, we'll start doing that, but more gently still!”00:41:46
Then what he did, yeah.00:41:48
Look, it sounds like another life hack, you know.00:41:53
Maybe before you draw conclusions in regards to people, it's better to get to know them better.00:42:00
— Of course!
— This also comes up a lot in our letters.00:42:04
By the way, about that letter where the girl can't open up...00:42:08
Remember I said that maybe you should get to know other people?00:42:11
I really do think it's all intertwined.00:42:14
— I mean, the way you react to people: “Oh, these are freaks — I won't even...” It's the same with you!
— Sure, of course!00:42:20
Why would I open up? They treat me the same.00:42:23
But if you try to get to know other people...00:42:26
And, you know...00:42:29
I get what you're saying — it's very cool to meet people in such places.00:42:33
— These are people you wouldn't probably meet in your usual life.
— Right! You'd never cross paths.00:42:37
— Your world and outlook broaden in a big way...
— You're absolutely right.00:42:40
When you see other worlds that are also really cool.00:42:44
I mean, we all hang out, and we think that our world is great. But if there were another one, we'd befriend them as well.00:42:50
But we don't even know they exist.00:42:53
Here's what I also thought:00:42:55
your ecosystem where you exist most of the time00:42:59
also affects you quite negatively as well, I think.00:43:04
You start to have your own humor, your own vision, your own...00:43:08
— Roles.
— Your own roles, yes! And so on.00:43:10
Again, while surfing, I met girls — they were athletes, synchro swimmers.00:43:14
And I have a pretty negative attitude towards athletes, because I...00:43:18
For me personally...00:43:19
Not really “negative” — that's a wrong word.00:43:21
— It's a cliche.
— Yeah, I have this cliche that they are...00:43:26
— That they're rather narrow-minded people because of their trade. Being a professional athlete is a trade.
— Yeah, no basic higher education...00:43:32
Right! And I saw professional athletes in their own environment.00:43:37
But I have also seen them in an environment with a mixed bag of people,00:43:41
And they even act differently, you know.00:43:44
I mean, among professional athletes they're like, you know...00:43:48
— And here...
— You're still doing that!00:43:50
But here, among other kinds of people, they're like, you know...00:43:55
They collect themselves. They behave normally.00:43:58
They're smiling, and not like... I mean...00:44:04
You know, I might have had the same stereotype before I started meeting professional athletes.00:44:10
I mean, I met the first two people, and I clearly saw that it's not the case.00:44:17
Man, you might have met the best ones.00:44:20
— Maybe.
— Maybe those were the best ones.00:44:25
You know, a saw an interview with Kokorin, right when he moved to Sochi...00:44:30
Just so you know, I...00:44:35
Any sphere has its own pranks. Right?00:44:37
Every sphere has its own pranks.00:44:40
But Kokorin told there a story that, as prank,00:44:44
one of the footballers took the other footballer's boots and took a shit there.00:44:50
I think that Kokorin and Mamaev have already...00:44:53
No-no-no, it's not about Kokorin and Mamaev!00:44:56
He simply told a story that he used to play for Dinamo,00:44:59
and one of the footballers — I quote — took a shit in other footballer's boots.00:45:07
And in ballet girls put broken glass in other girls' ballet shoes.00:45:11
It would be better...00:45:12
That's still more reasonable than taking a shit in someone's boots!00:45:17
— Seriously?!
— Olya!00:45:18
— Taking a shit in boots!
— It's just a prank, Ruslan!00:45:22
— You know?
— But broken glass can cripple a person!00:45:25
Look, you get up in the morning, you put them on, and you see glass there.00:45:29
You're like: “Someone is envious of me!”00:45:31
But when you get up in the morning, look at your shoes and see shit there...00:45:35
What would you think, Olya?00:45:37
What would you think?00:45:40
The first thing I'd think... Here's how well I think of people.00:45:44
— My first thought would be:
— It was the dog?00:45:46
“When did I do this?”00:45:48
You know? And why did I do this?00:45:51
Never in my life would I think that another human being did this.00:45:58
— That's what I'm saying.
— You can't use a singular example to judge...00:46:02
I don't think it's a singular example. Here's why: one athlete took the other athlete's boots and took a shit in them.00:46:11
And the third one told the whole fucking country about that!00:46:15
— You get what I'm saying?
— So it's three of them!00:46:19
I mean...00:46:22
I mean...00:46:24
— Why should you tell this?
— So, the synchro swimmers turned out to be interesting?00:46:29
Very!00:46:30
— Thank god!
— They don't have boots.00:46:35
You know, every time these professional athletes start advocating for stuff or run for office... You know?00:46:42
Some footballer will become a lawmaker!00:46:45
And then laws will be written by someone who might organize such a flashmob. You know?00:46:52
So, what was this episode about?00:46:55
Here's my view: it was about young people who are freaking nuts.00:46:59
And you don't need to view every issue as something serious and horrible and think like:00:47:03
“Crap, my life is over! I need to see a psychoanalyst!” And so on.00:47:09
Our lives comprise of issues. You're walking down your own path00:47:13
depending on what issues you face and how you deal with those issues. Right?00:47:18
Look, meanwhile I have a feeling that right now you're going against one of the main messages of our show.00:47:26
— Yes!
— Because I think we have a target audience who I want to tell that issues need to be discussed.00:47:35
And I'm not the one who decides how big the issue is.00:47:38
Is a person feels pain, if they feel some deficit, if they feel very lonely and detached from society at 20,00:47:46
I want to read that letter.00:47:47
Because I don't think your letter must have a story about rape or a suicide attempt00:47:54
for it to be super important.00:47:57
I think that no matter how old you are,00:48:00
if you don't feel good or feel sad...00:48:02
Even if it's, I dunno, if you're in a bad mood,00:48:06
you can talk about it and analyze it.00:48:10
I agree! But here's what I mean...00:48:14
You and I00:48:17
will meet that with kindness and warmth.00:48:21
But people around that person don't watch “Other People's Letters”, they don't write us letters, you know...00:48:27
So they remain the same and will stay the same in the future.00:48:31
I mean, obviously, you're correct: of course, you have a right to have your own pain, emotions, a desire to get empathy, etc.00:48:41
But the fact that two people tell you that they understand you will make you feel better, yes, but that won't change the world. That's what I mean.00:48:48
You'll still have to...00:48:50
I still think that if we learn early that you can choose not to survive your whole life00:48:57
and instead try to get to know yourself...00:49:03
Here's what I would say...00:49:06
You're right — you need to get to know yourself and be open, but...00:49:10
But not with everybody after all. That's the thing.00:49:13
— Find someone who...
— I didn't say... On the contrary, Ruslan!00:49:16
I said: where does this idea of opening up to people come from? I started with that.00:49:20
I said to try to get to know people,00:49:23
and maybe there will be someone who you'll want to open up to.00:49:26
For a little bit or more... Or there won't be anyone.00:49:30
I'm saying that I saw a problem here: the person isn't interested in other people.00:49:35
I saw that a 20-year-old girl is isolated because...00:49:39
You're saying not to hide in your shell like a turtle after being rejected by life the first time.00:49:44
— Yes.
— You still need to be looking...00:49:45
And then if we come back to that idea that you can always refer to “I had a difficult childhood”...00:49:53
Obviously, psychoanalysis is all about figuring out what went wrong back then,00:49:58
and then never blaming anyone again.00:50:02
So, in the beginning you say: “Yes, I struggle with this because of that,00:50:06
because my father was an alcoholic, my mom isolated herself, I'm 20, I have a brother...00:50:10
Yes, I understood that, I've been angry at them, I've talked this out.00:50:13
And now I turn to myself and never come back to that again every time.”00:50:18
You don't say that it will all be erased.00:50:21
The idea is not to spend your whole life thinking about how unfortunate you are, how they forbid you something or whether you had parents.00:50:32
— The idea is that...
— I now know how we'll end this episode.00:50:35
About a minute ago we'll start fading out our voices and put music on.Description:
Тайм-коды: 00:00 - Начало 3:58 - "Как довериться другому?" 19:22 - "Почему новые отношения кажутся лучше текущих?" 30:59 - "Противозависимые отношения" Подписывайся на канал: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4g4YABfz_vEwmZLjtF2Zjw?sub_confirmation=1 Продюсерская группа: Ольга Кузнецова, Алексей Хлыстов, Денис Михалев Почта: [email protected]
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