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Channel: Телеканал Прямий

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політика

proсвіт

00:00:00

I was personally impressed by one speech.

00:00:03

Although I sometimes give speeches myself, a person who

00:00:07

prepares such speeches for

00:00:09

politicians would be really

00:00:12

impressed. This is the speech of the Argentine

00:00:14

president at Javier Milea's argumentative forum. I

00:00:17

advise everyone to watch it.

00:00:24

which I

00:00:28

host a program about

00:00:30

you being the

00:00:32

President, I can afford to

00:00:34

appoint anyone as president

00:00:38

[music]

00:00:41

Today we have a guest I

00:00:44

consider him my friend Andrii for a long time I

00:00:48

always said that Ukrainians do not have a very good

00:00:51

idea of who should be a

00:00:53

real politician for the majority of

00:00:55

Ukrainians these are people who lie a lot,

00:00:57

use power for personal

00:00:59

gain, and an important element of

00:01:01

any real politician like

00:01:05

Miley is visionary, Andrii. I

00:01:10

can call him

00:01:13

a visionary, and I think he will confirm it himself. I

00:01:20

aspire to be a visionary,

00:01:24

at least to think in the long term, to

00:01:27

think about the country, to think about how

00:01:30

to develop, and not how to preserve what

00:01:33

was, Andriy Dligach, an IT entrepreneur since

00:01:37

1990, the developer of the first commercial

00:01:40

product in Ukraine and co-founder of

00:01:42

one of the first outsourcing companies

00:01:45

Software makiiv in

00:01:47

1994 sold his Apple

00:01:50

computer developments in the mid-90s, head of the

00:01:53

Apple computer representative office in Ukraine

00:01:55

in

00:01:56

1995 founded and still heads Edvan

00:02:00

ter Group, a group of consulting and

00:02:01

investment companies, in 2012 with

00:02:05

Valery Peker, created the Ukrainian

00:02:07

Republican Club, and in 2014

00:02:10

the civic New Country platform, an

00:02:13

active participant in all Ukrainian

00:02:15

Maidans, in 2018 he started the international

00:02:18

business community of Ukrainian entrepreneurs,

00:02:21

boards, which is currently represented in nine

00:02:23

countries.

00:02:38

business community for

00:02:40

the modernization of Ukraine unites 96

00:02:43

associations and clubs doctor of economic

00:02:45

sciences professor of

00:02:48

Taras Shevchenko Kyiv National University and a

00:02:50

number of business schools specializes in

00:02:52

international economics and strategic

00:02:54

management since 2016 is a global

00:02:58

ambassador of singularity uversi

00:03:01

futurologist as one of my friends said who

00:03:03

can be a politician,

00:03:05

people are not of private interest, but of

00:03:08

public interest. Yes, I heard, I heard, I heard

00:03:11

that, yes,

00:03:13

the interview, I'm not convinced,

00:03:17

something

00:03:18

struck me at the time, first of all, I think

00:03:21

that in this way, segregation and

00:03:25

saying that a person must always be or on the side of

00:03:28

sleep a world in a divergent world in a

00:03:31

world in which everything is so

00:03:33

mixed up, it is very difficult for an

00:03:35

entrepreneur to become an effective public

00:03:38

manager, we had such examples, we had

00:03:41

such examples after the Maidan in various

00:03:43

sectors, moreover, the vast majority of

00:03:46

successful entrepreneurs who became

00:03:48

public managers are now raking in money

00:03:51

not because of their mistakes. because of the

00:03:53

changes that they implemented, they are ready to

00:03:55

accept the powers of the president for this

00:03:58

hour Well, then I will receive a

00:04:00

symbol for one hour, your presidency

00:04:04

But I have to tell you right away that I consider the

00:04:08

institution of the presidency for the

00:04:10

presidency of Ukraine to be unsuccessful,

00:04:12

I think that the constitutional and actual powers of the President are

00:04:19

so different, what can I say? And who that's the

00:04:23

kind of president we have in Ukraine, a metaphor

00:04:25

who later seizes power, or whether a person

00:04:29

who performs his functions is very difficult.

00:04:31

I believe that the President should rather be

00:04:36

a figure with powers.

00:04:45

we

00:04:48

constantly observe that the guarantors of

00:04:51

the Constitution are neglecting the guarantors of

00:04:54

the constitution itself, yes, absolutely. What do you

00:04:57

think? Can I take this position at all?

00:05:00

Maybe we should be a parliamentary

00:05:03

republic. Of course, if I were a member,

00:05:07

I would probably say right now that the

00:05:10

Ukrainian member should be elected by the

00:05:13

Maidans. Ugu e and the president should not be a

00:05:17

figure that elects a paternalistic

00:05:19

society. And should be a figure that is

00:05:22

appointed by the Cossacks on the Maidan, moreover, he

00:05:26

can be

00:05:30

overthrown from his post in the evening and given a

00:05:33

stipend for what he did. Well, with

00:05:35

the prime minister, it is a little different. It seems to me that the

00:05:38

parliament elects him there The Verkhovna Rada

00:05:40

Yes, absolutely, that's why it

00:05:42

seems to me that if the

00:05:45

country really needs a president, then he should really be

00:05:48

limited by his own constitutional

00:05:51

powers and rather deal with

00:05:54

issues of external security,

00:05:58

issues of the country's external positioning, and

00:06:00

issues of guaranteeing

00:06:03

the Constitution, but definitely not to relate to, not to

00:06:06

have a relationship with, the forces structures

00:06:08

inside the country should have no relation to

00:06:11

economic issues to others to a

00:06:14

bunch of other issues, it should be limited and

00:06:17

then the prime minister should be the main figure who shapes

00:06:19

policies in the state.

00:06:21

I understand that we are

00:06:23

with you today judging by your

00:06:27

inscription on

00:06:28

rdyah, because we will touch on the

00:06:32

economy, I suggest to our viewers to

00:06:34

subscribe to us because the conversation will be

00:06:38

quite interesting, but you yourself said that the

00:06:40

President should not

00:06:41

deal with the economy, but we will still be doing a lot of processing here today.

00:06:51

all

00:06:54

in order to limit this position, unfortunately, the

00:06:59

majority of our presidents

00:07:00

come with the same liberal

00:07:04

reformist ideas, and gradually, with a bull, they

00:07:06

take over the bronzing and what is

00:07:09

passed from the president to the

00:07:11

president, the format of collecting money in the entire

00:07:14

vertical of power.

00:07:20

our state in

00:07:23

our country, I see that we have four

00:07:27

states, four, and this worries me the most,

00:07:29

and first of all, as president, I would

00:07:32

try to remove the existence of these

00:07:34

four parallel states.

00:07:41

it is a deep gray

00:07:44

bureaucratic one that makes any

00:07:47

reforms impossible where people are afraid to

00:07:50

change something because they will definitely come and

00:07:52

check, so it is better not to

00:07:55

make any changes. It is a large part of

00:07:58

the state, but it is not dominant. So, on the

00:08:00

one hand, it provides stability of survival

00:08:03

even during during the war, even during the

00:08:05

covid, this deep

00:08:07

state worked in Ukraine, but it did its

00:08:11

best to ensure that no reforms were passed

00:08:13

in the country, no

00:08:16

essential friend.

00:08:25

this is a liberal

00:08:27

state, which is manifested by ministers,

00:08:30

deputies, whom we know, we know, we

00:08:33

communicate with them, we have normal relations with them.

00:08:35

Many of them are from business or

00:08:39

from the environment of Aspen in which

00:08:42

we seem to have verified the values, and these are the

00:08:48

ministers who are now in shock from what is

00:08:50

happening in the country due to another pressure

00:08:52

on business or public figures, they

00:08:56

are shocked by what has happened in recent

00:08:59

days,

00:09:00

yes, this is a liberal state, it is

00:09:03

unfortunately the weakest in the country, it does not

00:09:06

make decisions, it does not form policies,

00:09:08

it is used by other states

00:09:10

in order to cover up that what

00:09:13

she is doing and they are substituting this liberal

00:09:15

state for Europeans,

00:09:17

they say, look, here they are. When you

00:09:19

say the last days, what do you mean? I

00:09:21

mean depending on when

00:09:24

our dear viewers will watch it,

00:09:26

I will hint at what are we filming

00:09:30

on the day when it became known about the arrests, the

00:09:33

absolutely

00:09:35

strange change of everyone despite all the rules that there is

00:09:42

force pressure on Mazepo Concord

00:09:44

capital what happened is not Oh, it is not

00:09:46

one story, this is a story that has become

00:09:48

public And we in the coalition of business communities are

00:09:50

now analyzing five such stories that have

00:09:52

happened recently, well, it

00:09:54

seems to me that the Masky Show is a very

00:09:57

old tradition of the Ukrainian state, but

00:09:59

they are getting stronger. Imagine that we had a verbal

00:10:01

meeting with the acting manager of

00:10:03

Beb and agreed that there should

00:10:06

be no such practice of forceful

00:10:09

pressure that comes before talking.

00:10:12

Well, ask for documents. Well, if the business

00:10:14

resists, don't give

00:10:17

documents, don't go to the meeting, then

00:10:20

make some more forceful decisions, but the

00:10:22

vast majority of entrepreneurs are ready to

00:10:24

give documents, show everything, explain. This is

00:10:27

not some kind of confrontation war in our country the

00:10:29

internal one needs the entrepreneur to

00:10:33

be in shock, well, the shock is created in this way, you

00:10:36

need to go to his house, break down the

00:10:39

door, and it should be at 5 in the morning or at

00:10:42

12 at night, and then he will be better able to

00:10:45

negotiate, and it is desirable to do this during the

00:10:47

forum in Davos, so that they

00:10:49

react immediately the world mass media announced

00:10:52

that businessmen fighting corruption were

00:10:56

arrested by the power structure,

00:10:59

parallel to this, events were taking place with the

00:11:02

bigus, in which it was

00:11:05

unclear how he was being

00:11:08

monitored, how, what right did they have to

00:11:12

use the means of such

00:11:15

monitoring, and so on, so the

00:11:19

liberal state is opposing this

00:11:21

corrupt power the state, which is

00:11:23

the strongest in our country, the state of the

00:11:26

security forces of this vertical, which is transferred

00:11:29

with a boolean from the president to the

00:11:31

president. The checkerboard system of distributing

00:11:33

judges is now as if automated, but for

00:11:36

some reason the courts can change and

00:11:40

some other court will now take your

00:11:42

case, and there it will turn out that only one

00:11:44

judge was for the automatic

00:11:47

election system Well, because the software

00:11:49

digitization works when

00:11:52

it is in the right hands, it is with the

00:11:55

elections, I have long been in favor of the electronic

00:11:57

method of elections, but the only problem is that the server

00:12:00

must be in independent

00:12:03

hands, this vertical of the security forces is also

00:12:06

characterized by very strong

00:12:08

horizontal ties that We

00:12:11

find out with

00:12:13

entrepreneurs that the person

00:12:16

who is putting pressure on me is turning to me. For example, the tax office or the

00:12:20

tax service is taxing directly in direct

00:12:24

language, they say or pay more to the state

00:12:29

or, as a better option, pay as much

00:12:31

as they paid, but also a little more directly to us.

00:12:34

Well, they turn to me, what to

00:12:37

do, I say nabu, this is the same

00:12:42

case when you go to

00:12:44

nabu, give a bribe because there is

00:12:47

corruption in the tax office. And you are fighting

00:12:50

corruption. Come to the tax office to look for

00:12:52

corruption. Well, yes. What? What do the entrepreneurs say to me?

00:13:01

So we will be able to decide, but

00:13:03

then the prosecutor will come to me, the prosecutor, the

00:13:06

local swindler, the local, they will arrest me anyway,

00:13:09

because they are relatives there. They are

00:13:12

Godfathers to each other, they are all connected there.

00:13:21

he doesn't take so much for

00:13:25

himself as they collect a single fund

00:13:27

in order to jointly confront the

00:13:30

police and the prosecutor's office, which will

00:13:33

investigate cases against them, against the

00:13:36

customs officers, and they need to have money in order to

00:13:38

hire lawyers, and they collect

00:13:41

such a sum. Well, of course, a large

00:13:43

part is sent to the mountain and all this is

00:13:46

so systematically built in us that these

00:13:49

attempts are not good, in fact they are not good, you

00:13:52

say that it is soft in your broadcast, mostly

00:13:56

everyone is talking

00:13:57

today, today I

00:14:00

will try to say everything, how there are

00:14:03

bad attempts, Uhu, to carry out the

00:14:05

anti-corruption fight by multiplying

00:14:08

anti-corruption

00:14:10

institutions, this all contributes to the growth and the

00:14:13

strengthening of the corruption of the corrupt vertical

00:14:16

in the country, new bodies are also corrupt, the

00:14:19

vertical is stronger and becomes even

00:14:24

bigger, the vertical under the leadership of

00:14:26

anti-corruption is becoming more corrupt,

00:14:29

the only way to overcome this dominance of the

00:14:32

powerful

00:14:33

corrupt state in our country is to

00:14:36

change the rules of the game, the rules of the game

00:14:38

should theoretically be changed by the Verkhovna

00:14:41

Rada, the president all

00:14:46

our political elite must make this

00:14:48

decision, but the

00:14:50

majority of our political elite

00:14:53

is in the fourth state, the

00:14:55

populist Ugu,

00:14:57

they are balancing like a weather vane, they constantly

00:15:02

look at media ratings, everything is based

00:15:06

on this, everything is built on sentiments and

00:15:10

on the balance between what they are asking for

00:15:12

Americans, Europeans, and how can we wave at

00:15:14

those Americans, Europeans, to pretend

00:15:16

that we are fighting something, and

00:15:19

in fact do something else, or what does

00:15:21

society need? And here we need to be

00:15:23

more careful, they did not accept the mobilization, they did not

00:15:25

understand.

00:15:33

it constantly maintains a balance between a

00:15:36

liberal state and a

00:15:37

security state, that's why when business comes to the

00:15:40

president and the president says, look at

00:15:42

the research, here are the numbers. The state

00:15:45

is the main obstacle to investment, because the state is

00:15:48

unpredictable, because the state

00:15:51

interferes with the development of business and the economy, and that

00:15:53

's why investments are fleeing the country, talents

00:15:56

are fleeing the country because the state is

00:15:58

built in us in this way it

00:16:00

interferes with development the president says horror What to

00:16:03

do We say the president must eliminate the

00:16:05

security forces the president himself proposes the

00:16:08

idea And let's make it so that there will be only

00:16:10

one body that can

00:16:12

physically check the business a great idea

00:16:16

business supports June 2023 A

00:16:21

let's say the president, you will come to

00:16:23

us with cases with problems, what are the

00:16:25

real ones, let's figure out why behind

00:16:28

closed doors, but OK, business has come,

00:16:32

yes, of course, it's definitely not an abundance, there are

00:16:35

different situations, yes, business sometimes requires

00:16:38

more, and business does not want to pay these

00:16:41

high taxes, yes, business optimizes,

00:16:43

but business He says that we are ready for new

00:16:45

rules of the game, give us a state that will be

00:16:48

predictable and that will be fair

00:16:51

that we will receive in return some of the

00:16:53

companies that came and showed their cases

00:16:55

already have the DBR of the prosecutor's office in Kyivgum district,

00:16:59

one of the good examples of recent

00:17:03

times, more than six months have passed since

00:17:06

then the moment when the president gave such an

00:17:08

idea and it seems that it was supported by everyone and

00:17:11

the work went on, that we see increased

00:17:14

pressure from different sides of various bodies that

00:17:17

invade business, accordingly, this

00:17:20

populist state ultimately makes a

00:17:22

decision publicly in favor of liberal

00:17:26

changes And in fact in favor of strengthening the

00:17:29

vertical and state of the security forces and you don't

00:17:32

think that dividing the state into four

00:17:35

different states Well, how do you say No, it's not

00:17:39

very correct because maybe it's a single

00:17:42

state with different

00:17:45

floors, which all of them exist as a

00:17:49

state, as a state apparatus, as a ruling

00:17:53

class, and everyone suits each other, no,

00:17:57

I I know this absolutely for

00:17:59

sure, having been there for many years,

00:18:03

for many years, not inside, but

00:18:06

nearby, but I see the processes that

00:18:09

take place there, and I have very good personal relationships with many of the current

00:18:12

ministers and officials,

00:18:14

and therefore I have

00:18:16

the opportunity, maybe this is a problem when we

00:18:18

see a person personally, we do not

00:18:20

perceive him objectively, but I saw Reese,

00:18:23

but there were different people in these positions that

00:18:25

I had absolutely no relationship with. Is it an

00:18:28

unfair principle that if there is a

00:18:31

desire, everything happens because,

00:18:33

look, in those countries that, after all,

00:18:36

showed and got out of wild corruption, out of

00:18:39

crime, built new countries for themselves, when the

00:18:42

leaders had a real desire, everything

00:18:45

worked out for them, but you know this principle of

00:18:48

troubleshooting If you have a desire You

00:18:50

have 100 possibilities when you

00:18:53

don't have a desire You have 100 reasons why it's

00:18:54

not like that, look, it's because we do

00:18:57

n't have a single state, not a single

00:19:00

mechanism. If you asked me how

00:19:04

they are equivalent, I would tell you no.

00:19:06

We have one state - it's a state

00:19:08

of security forces that uses other

00:19:11

states of bureaucrats, liberals and the

00:19:14

president with a populist state in

00:19:17

his own interests, that is, we

00:19:19

actually have one state, but it is not at all what it looks like

00:19:22

in

00:19:23

the picture, this is a state in which the deputies

00:19:25

play a role and do not set the rules, a

00:19:29

state in which the president plays a role and does not

00:19:32

set the policy, because in the end the decision is

00:19:35

made by the president are

00:19:37

they being implemented in his office? We would know these

00:19:39

statistics, we heard them back in 22nd year

00:19:42

about what percentage of the decisions

00:19:43

made in the president's office are being

00:19:45

implemented. there

00:19:56

was no situation when the president did not

00:19:58

support the president supported all the

00:20:00

liberal tax reform supported the

00:20:03

administrative reform supported the

00:20:05

land reform supported many reforms were

00:20:07

supported but when we look at what

00:20:09

was implemented from this we actually see that little was

00:20:12

implemented Is it

00:20:13

because the President

00:20:17

tells us one thing and tells us another Other I have

00:20:20

big doubts. I have a clear understanding

00:20:24

that the President formally supports and

00:20:26

instructs, but then this powerful state, which is the

00:20:31

main and dominant one in the country, says well, well,

00:20:33

well, and he said, well, put it aside,

00:20:36

not just sabbatical, but do the

00:20:40

opposite, issuing it to the president later a

00:20:43

picture in

00:20:45

which they actually tried, they say, to

00:20:48

do something, but they got Oh, it doesn't

00:20:52

work, it's the same business, they're scumbags,

00:20:55

they don't pay taxes, it's the same

00:20:58

society, these anti-corruptionists, it's them

00:21:01

there who eat grants for themselves,

00:21:03

this distorted picture

00:21:07

led to the fact that how is society's

00:21:09

very strange attitude to business now,

00:21:13

or is it the rich? They should have it

00:21:17

worse, how is it that the president started from the

00:21:21

position that we should develop

00:21:22

middle class entrepreneurship, that

00:21:24

our society, getting rid of

00:21:26

patronage, should see opportunities for

00:21:29

themselves to become entrepreneurs or build a

00:21:32

car Are you afraid to have a second profession? Passive

00:21:34

income is the Ukraine of the future. It is not the same

00:21:37

country in which

00:21:39

we are once again afraid to say publicly on camera

00:21:41

that our security forces are destroying the

00:21:45

country from the inside. What then, when the whole country

00:21:48

concentrates on two issues, on the

00:21:50

issue of our military capability and on the issue of

00:21:52

economic power, which allows us

00:21:55

to endure this war at this time a

00:21:59

corrupt state destroys the opportunity to

00:22:02

produce drones to help the army and

00:22:06

develop the defense industrial complex

00:22:08

destroys this opportunity destroys the

00:22:11

opportunity for businesses to invest and

00:22:13

increase tax payments in the country to

00:22:15

create jobs destroys the

00:22:17

opportunity Well, just imagine during

00:22:19

Davos to arrest a person for the case of

00:22:23

2013, a person whose company led 4

00:22:27

billion dors of investment in the country after

00:22:30

that. What kind of investments

00:22:32

can we talk about? Well, it is absolutely

00:22:34

obvious that this is a war against Ukraine

00:22:36

inside the country itself. When you began

00:22:38

to describe the four states, I remembered that

00:22:41

I had such the model of our state when

00:22:43

I wanted to explain to foreigners why they

00:22:46

look at our state from the outside and

00:22:48

understand that Well, it seems that they

00:22:50

should have everything like in Europe. They have a

00:22:53

parliament, they have elections, they have a

00:22:55

Constitution.

00:22:58

you know different theories, maybe

00:23:01

genetically something is wrong with Ukrainians

00:23:03

even if they are given the tools and

00:23:04

institutions of democracy They still

00:23:07

can't do anything I told them

00:23:09

You just don't understand In the 90s another

00:23:12

model of our state emerged, I described it a little

00:23:14

differently I thought that I I didn't divide this

00:23:17

state into four, I just said that

00:23:19

it is set up like that for me, it was the

00:23:22

only mechanism that it has such a

00:23:24

protective mechanism, I call it a

00:23:28

showcase, it looks like you said something, and they

00:23:30

really put it on the showcase when

00:23:32

the president comes out, he plays a visionary and a

00:23:36

reformer and everyone who is in the showcase,

00:23:39

moreover, in this showcase, a

00:23:41

large number of

00:23:44

different representatives of civil

00:23:45

society, which I myself regard as a

00:23:48

civil society, I respect very much

00:23:50

and believe that the very existence happened so that, after

00:23:53

all, in 30 years of Independence,

00:23:56

we have It arose, it

00:23:58

hardened us on the Maidans, it was

00:24:00

hardened civil

00:24:03

society that saved us from all those

00:24:05

crises that we got into and the war is also

00:24:08

there.

00:24:10

And some representatives of

00:24:12

civil society found it there in the

00:24:14

shop window because, well, look, there are

00:24:16

public organizations there, there are

00:24:20

representatives of civil society of society,

00:24:21

but the main state is in the shadows, there

00:24:24

is a concept of the deep state, but the

00:24:27

shadow state is a little different, the

00:24:29

deep state is just a large

00:24:31

number of echelons of officials, but they

00:24:33

do not hide, they are all transparent there,

00:24:36

any audit can check them, the

00:24:38

shadow state is completely in a different way, there are

00:24:40

no laws there, there are agreements, and

00:24:43

everything is different there, and when the president,

00:24:45

deputy, minister enters the Tyun zone,

00:24:48

there are completely different conversations, different relations, the

00:24:51

Tyun state is the main state

00:24:54

and you just have to break the window and

00:24:56

pull it out

00:24:58

It's us and you, you in your own words

00:25:01

I listed the same states about which I am talking about

00:25:04

the showcase - this is a liberal state and a

00:25:06

populist tycoon state - this is what

00:25:08

I call a security state and a Deep

00:25:10

State. Here is this vertical and unfortunately

00:25:13

the president did not even become a person. Well,

00:25:15

let's say who saw it and he

00:25:18

found himself in to the shadow state where they

00:25:20

explain to him, you know, for me there was such an

00:25:23

interesting example

00:25:24

of political technology, I first

00:25:26

understood it with Petro Oleksiiovych

00:25:27

Poroshenko, I say that if he goes to the

00:25:30

bank and sits in the office, he will physically sit in

00:25:34

Yanukovych's office, probably there will be no changes because

00:25:37

he is there in Everything is fine in the office, and

00:25:39

then when the photos appeared, even with

00:25:41

this green malachite, yes,

00:25:45

everything is malachite. And when Zelenskyi said that I

00:25:48

will not sit there, I will build a new office. Well,

00:25:51

he is under, well, in Georgia.

00:25:53

I understood everything. They explained to him that it is

00:25:57

better here it's better to sit here. When I

00:25:59

came to meet with Poroshenko. It was the

00:26:02

15th year. Ugh, the 15th. Or the 16th.

00:26:06

Poroshenko's first meeting with Poroshenko as the

00:26:08

president. The first meeting with society

00:26:11

was at the civic platform New

00:26:13

Country. He came to us after the docks and

00:26:16

this was a completely different president, and then

00:26:19

he gathered us in this large hall

00:26:21

with a round table, just as Zelensky has now

00:26:24

gathered the

00:26:25

business, I am amazed by these veiled

00:26:29

scoops, that's all this scooping and the main thing. It

00:26:32

seems to me trouble - This is this mace, this is the

00:26:35

impression of each of our presidents that

00:26:37

he takes the mace that now he has the power,

00:26:42

the opportunity and the

00:26:43

chosen one and he is bronzed and he wants

00:26:47

This pathos and it does not work, we

00:26:49

tell Zelensky and we can

00:26:50

simply pass it on to you I can tell him

00:26:53

how many times I have thrown it into the ears of various people who communicate with him In the

00:26:58

22nd year, it was necessary to

00:27:01

meet with the business. I spent a year on it.

00:27:04

And in the end he agreed. But

00:27:06

what format did we propose? Well, a

00:27:09

human format to talk so that we could

00:27:11

convey the position, but still there was pathos

00:27:14

and let's dilute these activists with

00:27:16

another business that will come and Dada will say,

00:27:18

everything is fine, thank you for our

00:27:20

happy childhood, because this is what is needed

00:27:23

for someone who has had this feeling, it is

00:27:26

needed in such a way that I want to say that

00:27:28

in addition to all this, there is one more dimension

00:27:32

that seems to me to have been imposed on us by the

00:27:35

institutionalists from the north Fukuyama is

00:27:38

now zhimoglu robinson By the way, they have a

00:27:41

very good model about the narrow

00:27:43

corridor But there is a huge mistake about

00:27:47

Ukraine In short, what do

00:27:50

zhimoglu Robinson say in this book, they

00:27:53

say that a normal country will develop

00:27:56

and grow when a balance is found, a

00:27:59

narrow corridor between two dimensions, between the

00:28:01

strength of civil society

00:28:03

and the power of the state, when the state is strong and

00:28:06

society is weak, we have trouble,

00:28:10

just like a weak state and a strong

00:28:12

society. Well, as we had in the

00:28:14

post-Maidan times, both should not

00:28:16

develop, but here there is a big

00:28:20

problem, first of all, not understanding what

00:28:22

civil society is in Ukraine,

00:28:24

our civil society is built

00:28:26

on a non-hierarchical

00:28:28

country, a non-hierarchical society, this is a

00:28:31

network-centric environment, it is an

00:28:33

environment, it is very flat, one of the

00:28:35

reasons for our Ukrainian corruption is that we do

00:28:37

not like rules, but we like

00:28:40

connections, we know and it is easier for us, and we

00:28:42

work in a model faster. Therefore, it does not

00:28:45

make us flexible and adaptive. We are

00:28:48

more resilient in the face of challenges such as

00:28:51

covid or war. We self-organize. We are

00:28:54

self-activated because we are a flat

00:28:56

society.

00:29:03

The vector of the direction of the state, the

00:29:07

Ukrainian state, if you look through the vector of

00:29:10

forces. The vector of the direction of the state's power is

00:29:13

important, so here is the liberal state, which,

00:29:15

together with society, is trying to

00:29:17

modernize Ukraine, it is weak

00:29:20

compared to the completely different

00:29:23

vector of force of this powerful corrupt

00:29:26

state, where derezhism, discretion,

00:29:29

the official must decide. there is some

00:29:32

rule

00:29:33

where the state must be the main controller in the economy

00:29:36

and there must be a minimum of freedoms of

00:29:39

the state, it must be more, it must be

00:29:42

stronger, and the people must be obedient

00:29:44

serfs, yes, this is a vector, a vector, where is the

00:29:47

power of the state existing in us directed,

00:29:50

therefore strengthening the state When we are told by

00:29:52

our international friends, strengthen the state,

00:29:55

build institutions. What does this prize amount

00:29:57

to, that the state is strengthened, the

00:30:00

corrupt state of the security forces? They

00:30:03

reported and built a new institution that

00:30:05

took greater control over business,

00:30:08

civil liberties, over the

00:30:10

development of the economy. In the end, we have a

00:30:13

very strong state in which there are no such

00:30:18

freedoms as we had, we have. It

00:30:21

seems to me that two civilizations live in one

00:30:23

civilization, so and so and that state, that

00:30:25

state apparatus that you and I

00:30:29

describe differently, and it seems to me that

00:30:33

civil society and the whole people

00:30:35

simply live on some other planet in

00:30:38

another state and this is one of foreigners also have problems,

00:30:40

because look at our

00:30:42

state, they surrendered us, honestly, in the

00:30:44

22nd year, realizing that such a state will not

00:30:47

survive if we tell them that the enemy is preparing

00:30:50

to attack, and they are building roads instead of the

00:30:54

okraryonas and the army.

00:30:59

they won't be able to withstand it for

00:31:01

a few days, and here they find out that

00:31:04

not only did I withstand it, we are fighting,

00:31:06

we are breaking it, and this is fighting civil

00:31:08

society and the organization itself, which left,

00:31:10

and it is our network of centrism, yes, which

00:31:15

worked, which always worked when we

00:31:17

were in crisis, absolutely, I, Of course, I would not

00:31:20

write off those positive attempts that are

00:31:23

still taking place at the level of the state

00:31:25

and statesmen. It seems to me that there is a

00:31:29

positive process and that it is led by the

00:31:31

Ministry of Digital Affairs and now the Ministry of Defense, and I

00:31:34

cannot say that nothing is

00:31:36

being done at all. Well, something is being done.

00:31:40

to make it look like, well,

00:31:42

cut it all off, Andrii. This is exactly what I wanted to

00:31:44

say with us somewhere right now, the Equator of

00:31:47

our program, we are always in our

00:31:49

program, it happens, just like in life, very

00:31:52

quickly we figure out who is to blame, and right

00:31:55

now we were figuring out, but in our

00:31:57

program, which you must subscribe

00:31:59

to our channel about her You must

00:32:01

subscribe and Please write your

00:32:03

comments, I read them a lot,

00:32:06

no matter what they are, criticize and write

00:32:09

what you think about my guest, did

00:32:12

you vote for him if he really

00:32:14

ran for office presidents, do all this,

00:32:17

but I want to move on to the question of what to do,

00:32:19

after all, what to do. You are the president, let's

00:32:21

talk about this, this is a favorite

00:32:23

question, because I have a clear picture of what

00:32:26

needs to be done, uh, I can't say that

00:32:29

it hasn't been transformed in recent times

00:32:31

well, the first time we thought about the

00:32:33

picture was in 2010, when we started

00:32:35

preparing the Maidan. When it became clear that

00:32:37

everything is

00:32:38

Trouble at 12, you mean maybe

00:32:41

the tax Maidan no Nini Nini where where we

00:32:44

were preparing the Maidan the real Maidan then

00:32:48

everything turns out to be clear Some of these

00:32:51

people the deputies remain now, I

00:32:53

will not say who, but we were preparing for a moment, we were

00:32:56

trying to understand what needs to be

00:32:58

done to dislodge the new government.

00:33:12

we made a Ukrainian

00:33:13

republican club with Valery, a baker,

00:33:16

Igor

00:33:17

Kharchenko, and colleagues and friends, but

00:33:22

when the Maidan appeared, it had already taken place.

00:33:24

We were in despair because we discussed a lot. a

00:33:34

list of people whom we have to bring to

00:33:37

power, or a real plan of action.

00:33:40

Therefore, this is the

00:33:45

anniversary of the terrible ten-year

00:33:47

draconian law that was passed

00:33:49

during the Maidan itself, and then there was

00:33:52

approximately such despair as we have now

00:33:54

when we do not know what to do because the

00:33:56

counteroffensive failed the offensive we don't

00:33:58

see opportunities for him in the 23rd year

00:34:01

that has passed. It was a lesson in losing illusions, it's

00:34:04

painful, but it seems to me that when you

00:34:05

lose illusions,

00:34:07

fruit should appear. And here is the minimum, the minimum,

00:34:09

and the point when, well, well, the enemy

00:34:12

defeated his best drones The Verkhovna

00:34:15

Rada then votes for this draconian

00:34:18

law, and what can we do now, standing on the Maidan, the

00:34:20

army that has now is not the same

00:34:23

army that came to us in the 22nd, it is an army

00:34:26

with combat experience, yes, then what did we

00:34:30

decide, we said, looking at each

00:34:34

other we put our

00:34:36

running on pause, we now have to deal with the

00:34:40

picture and the strategy. Where are we going and

00:34:43

how to get there? Then we started the

00:34:45

vision project, the civic platform.

00:34:54

not to demolish Yanukovych is our goal, our

00:34:57

goal is to build some other country where there

00:34:59

should be rules of the game and since then it has been

00:35:01

these 10 years.

00:35:10

strangely, it does

00:35:13

not concern the organization of the state, not the Constitution, but the

00:35:15

answer to the key question, who is a

00:35:17

Ukrainian? No, not in the sense of

00:35:21

nationality or language, but in the sense of who

00:35:23

he is, what is valuable to him, what he does,

00:35:27

because we can scold the state, we can

00:35:30

scold the president for weakness or

00:35:33

subservience to the security forces we can

00:35:35

talk there about corruption in public

00:35:38

procurement, but these are all manifestations of our

00:35:44

social

00:35:46

agreements, and the first thing for me in a

00:35:50

Ukrainian visa is a Ukrainian who takes

00:35:54

responsibility for the well-being of the T family,

00:35:58

for the upbringing and education of children, for the medical

00:36:01

protection of the family, and delegates security issues to the state

00:36:06

and care for those who cannot

00:36:09

take care of themselves, this is a key fault

00:36:12

in the worldview, that is, a self-sufficient person, a

00:36:14

self-sufficient person. Why does the state

00:36:17

constantly fight with us? This is the powerful state,

00:36:19

why does it attack business, because it

00:36:23

understands that the economic base of this new

00:36:26

country, which grows through the old country,

00:36:30

is just the average the class is entrepreneurs, the

00:36:32

economic base, free people who do not

00:36:34

depend on the state, people who depend

00:36:36

on the state, and I will tell you a number that may

00:36:39

shock our viewers, that more than 5

00:36:41

million people work for the

00:36:43

state out of 10 million real

00:36:45

labor resources, which we currently have, listen,

00:36:47

I have always been interested in these I will tell you the numbers,

00:36:49

I wanted to find them out from different

00:36:52

sources, how many state

00:36:56

apparatuses do we have, how many state apparatuses

00:36:59

do we have, I have a total of

00:37:02

235,000, I think that, well, they told me about those

00:37:06

who give declarations, they are 200. Yes, I

00:37:10

will ask. we were really

00:37:13

preparing an administrative reform. And

00:37:16

when you say about 5 million, these are people who

00:37:18

receive a salary from the budget from

00:37:19

state enterprises. Working for them,

00:37:21

being in a certain way in the local

00:37:23

government, receiving money from the local government,

00:37:25

in total, per apparatus per state,

00:37:28

more than 5

00:37:30

oners are included in the functioning of the state. No it's separate because I

00:37:33

look Sorry,

00:37:35

I was also once struck by the number before

00:37:38

the war I don't know how it's possible now it's

00:37:40

changed

00:37:41

62% of people depend on the state in our

00:37:44

country it's it's just fantastic it's I

00:37:48

understand it's with pensioners but it's with

00:37:50

pensioners In us now the

00:37:52

number of people with disabilities has increased in a terrible way, that is

00:37:55

3 million people, currently pensioners are

00:37:57

almost 11 million, in fact we have a population of 30

00:38:02

million, and the population

00:38:05

that can be self-sufficient has decreased

00:38:07

because it can lift us out of

00:38:10

poverty and constant danger is only the

00:38:13

development of the self-activation of people. A person who does

00:38:18

not depend on the state, he has the

00:38:20

opportunity through his own freedoms, his own

00:38:22

development, to pay taxes, and then

00:38:24

the state can take care of what, but I want to

00:38:27

tell you that you think that you do not

00:38:29

depend on the state, now

00:38:31

the security forces will knock on your door and they will say that you

00:38:34

still depend absolutely means this is the

00:38:36

first, but further in the vision - it is of course the

00:38:39

global subjectivity of Ukraine, we are

00:38:41

constantly losing it to us, and all these challenges

00:38:44

that we have give us another chance to

00:38:47

declare ourselves as a global

00:38:49

subject as a a country that is a frontier

00:38:51

that defends European values and the

00:38:54

values of the democratic world, it is

00:38:56

the most democratic country in fact that

00:38:58

changes

00:38:59

presidents constantly, we have many

00:39:02

advantages that should make us a real

00:39:04

subject, why is our subjectivity

00:39:07

defended by Penny Pritzker herself, for example,

00:39:09

who declared in Davos, look on this

00:39:11

Ukraine. It is the most

00:39:13

digital state in the world, it is even better

00:39:16

digitalized than Estonia. This is Pennipritzker

00:39:19

promoting Ukraine. Well, of course, our

00:39:22

minister of digitalization and the president are

00:39:25

also doing it.

00:39:33

creators, we can become the best

00:39:37

place for the development of talents, and not

00:39:39

only those who have

00:39:41

Ukrainian citizenship, Ukraine must become a magnet for

00:39:44

talented people, for entrepreneurs, for

00:39:46

inventors, for qualified

00:39:48

workers, and we must learn to be

00:39:51

this magnet, we must learn to become a

00:39:55

convenient space for development, that's it

00:39:58

for me, there are three three key things on which

00:40:01

everything else is already based, the president,

00:40:03

what will you do, is more concrete. What will

00:40:07

you do, yes, in order for this to happen,

00:40:10

what you say through the word is necessary.

00:40:15

on what we have done

00:40:17

for each function of the state and the country,

00:40:21

that is, society, there are three key

00:40:24

directions, the first direction is called

00:40:27

less state, the second direction is more

00:40:30

freedom, and the third direction is capacity, I will

00:40:33

start with capacity.

00:40:42

quite low,

00:40:46

although it would seem that it does not reign with

00:40:49

talents, but with our talents and

00:40:51

ingenuity we very often replace the

00:40:54

lack of

00:40:55

knowledge, I cannot say whether it is bad or

00:40:58

good. I am not in such terms. I believe that

00:41:00

we should conduct global civic

00:41:03

education global civic education

00:41:05

and I the president would take it

00:41:09

as a key

00:41:10

task for himself openness of the media

00:41:15

absolutely absolute freedoms for educational

00:41:17

projects you will not have a single marathon,

00:41:20

you can imagine what a horror it would be, of course, no more than

00:41:23

that, I will do my best so that there are no people

00:41:26

under my control as the president,

00:41:29

I will be able to do more than that, I will not I really even

00:41:33

want to collect monitors, well, at least you

00:41:35

will have your own YouTube, where you will

00:41:36

address people or

00:41:39

not, I would really

00:41:43

like to go to an interview as the president.

00:41:57

to be afraid not to be afraid that someone

00:42:00

guesses something or thinks wrongly will think

00:42:02

wrongly in any case

00:42:03

Ukraine stay safe in any case but

00:42:07

the more we are open the more difficult it is to

00:42:09

quarrel with us the greatest advice in

00:42:13

my life my mother once gave me when

00:42:16

I got a bad haircut and I, well, I didn't know

00:42:19

how I would go to school and

00:42:21

everyone would make fun of me, my mother told me, Yes, you are the

00:42:22

first. we

00:42:33

survived the Maidans, we survived the lockdowns, we

00:42:37

survived and are living 10 years of war, what

00:42:40

else are we afraid of, the president's security forces, the media

00:42:44

haters on Facebook, well, how much can you be

00:42:46

afraid of? And this is what I would say to the president,

00:42:49

criticize me, I am open. This is my

00:42:51

open life, which I live, this is the

00:42:55

first thing that means This is civil education,

00:42:59

broad economic and financial education, because the state

00:43:02

will not pay the dog according to the Bible,

00:43:05

to say first there was the word yes, and the second

00:43:08

is more freedom.

00:43:16

reforms,

00:43:17

which are total deregulation in the country, we

00:43:19

call the regulatory guillotine, if the

00:43:22

official cannot prove to the

00:43:25

expert society that some kind of regulation is necessary,

00:43:27

this regulation is being removed in order to introduce a

00:43:29

new regulation, it is necessary to remove

00:43:31

at least one existing regulation;

00:43:39

and

00:43:43

New Country says that it is necessary to replace the

00:43:46

income tax with a tax

00:43:48

on withdrawn capital, and

00:43:50

soon the 14th 14th year, the 24th this year

00:43:55

will be ten years,

00:43:56

10 years, everyone promises and Poroshenko promised

00:44:00

and Zelensky promised Poroshenko

00:44:02

promised twice twice publicly in Interkont the whole

00:44:05

the business is collected, Poroshenko promises and then

00:44:08

he also promised land reform and other reforms.

00:44:10

Well, what?

00:44:22

experts and

00:44:24

we understand that there is just a dirty black bottom

00:44:27

and despite the fact that there are even

00:44:29

professionals there. Even there are honest people, but

00:44:31

nothing can be done there.

00:44:33

The best, the best, we have to completely

00:44:36

rebuild.

00:44:43

taking into account the fact that there are many problems that

00:44:46

are not only in Ukraine, the third

00:44:49

is

00:44:50

tax deregulation and customs, the

00:44:53

third is the

00:44:56

antimonopoly reform, we have, as it were, the

00:44:58

Antimonopoly Committee, which should

00:44:59

work in us, there is a prozoro, which, but

00:45:02

the prozoro is disgraced, I am one of the authors of the idea

00:45:05

and branding and strategy prozor and I

00:45:09

just want to fill it myself

00:45:12

now on government procurement through prozoro,

00:45:14

let’s say so much government procurement

00:45:18

is done there in billions of hryvnias. It

00:45:20

seems to me that since the beginning of the year there is a figure of something

00:45:22

over 40 billion hryvnias and such a question. I

00:45:25

see on Facebook when they wrote to you how much

00:45:27

money there is still not enough money for drones. And

00:45:30

this is money for improvements, this is money for

00:45:32

improvements and for the maintenance of the state parade. This is

00:45:36

another thing about the

00:45:39

state, which should be less. I

00:45:42

will come to it now.

00:45:50

we

00:45:53

don't have an institute of strategizing. I'm not afraid to

00:45:56

talk about it publicly either. In 1919,

00:45:59

I was called to the president for an

00:46:01

interview for the position of head of

00:46:04

national education. Who was the

00:46:06

president? It was August. It was Zelensky.

00:46:13

the same unchanging one on

00:46:17

which everyone is as if they are friends and sit down,

00:46:20

the prime minister is sitting Who a month ago was a

00:46:24

friend in the corridor, I am a friend, yes,

00:46:27

rather, rather, people whom I know

00:46:30

very well, who After this meeting,

00:46:33

they tell me Andryukha This is not your war,

00:46:35

what are you there they say what idea I

00:46:38

came with the idea of risks showing a

00:46:41

presentation What risks await the country and

00:46:43

there everything that we experienced was

00:46:45

listed including blackouts

00:46:49

Uhu the idea with which I then approached the

00:46:52

president let's build a

00:46:54

strategy institute we have to look

00:46:56

several steps ahead we we must finally

00:46:58

begin to objectify reality,

00:47:00

model consequences and make decisions

00:47:03

based on modeling on numbers, our

00:47:06

war with Hetmantsev where he says and these are

00:47:08

sofa experts who

00:47:10

know nothing, that's what the president said. I'm not against it,

00:47:11

but I thought to myself that this

00:47:13

means us he

00:47:16

understands it, and everyone else definitely understands it, and I will

00:47:18

tell you that not a single reform in our country

00:47:20

takes place with a real justification. And the fact

00:47:22

that we bring reforms is always with an

00:47:24

economic mo,

00:47:26

with a detailed justification of why it is better

00:47:29

to do it than something else, so I was

00:47:32

refused, well, as a matter of fact the

00:47:35

National Institute of Strategic

00:47:36

Studies refused. I have great respect for my colleagues who

00:47:38

work there, we even have many

00:47:40

common opinions, but it is not a tool

00:47:43

for creating a state strategy. What is

00:47:45

our state strategy?

00:47:46

What is our defense strategy? What is our offensive strategy?

00:47:48

What is our economic

00:47:50

development strategy? it is in our country, I managed

00:47:52

together with my friends to promote the idea of

00:47:55

forming a national economic

00:47:57

strategy, we did it in the 20th and 21st years,

00:48:00

and the Prime Minister supported it and the president. Well, as

00:48:02

always.

00:48:09

she made a great strategy,

00:48:11

innovation, development of human capital, we

00:48:13

included everything there, so in my

00:48:17

term, I will do everything as president,

00:48:20

since I do not interfere in the work of the

00:48:22

Cabinet of Ministers, but I can set

00:48:24

the best practice. I will be the person who will

00:48:26

initiate the emergence of strategies of system

00:48:29

strategies in to the state of visions, which will become

00:48:31

our law and part of the

00:48:33

Constitution, with Gennadi you discussed

00:48:37

the topic of the Constitution, I am not a constitutionalist,

00:48:39

but my constitution is a Constitution

00:48:41

based on a vision.

00:48:51

memory, we

00:48:54

understand every article in it, not only the

00:48:57

fifth or 42 Ugh, because these have now become

00:49:01

the most important. Therefore, less state

00:49:04

means that we carry out total

00:49:06

privatization, total privatization, we

00:49:09

leave in the state only these critically

00:49:12

important for security objects in the property

00:49:15

states that Well, it's just a country, but there should

00:49:18

be halls, railways, not rolling stock, but

00:49:24

canvases, maybe runways.

00:49:28

Maybe one or two more companies, the rest, or

00:49:31

according to the Romanian scenario,

00:49:33

become corporatized and the state is one

00:49:36

of the co-owners, having the opportunity to

00:49:39

rather influence, not totally

00:49:42

control, and so on in We will not be there because the

00:49:46

reform of corporate

00:49:47

governance has failed. I know very

00:49:50

wonderful examples where everything works well, but

00:49:53

they all also go under the nabu

00:49:57

and work under other organizations. I really

00:50:00

like the principle of our state, I support it as a

00:50:02

citizen, but it is a simple question.

00:50:05

If less state is possible this program is

00:50:08

simply a reduction of the state apparatus,

00:50:10

numerically, because no, yes, because it

00:50:13

seems to me that according to the numbers, after all, we

00:50:16

have one of the largest state apparatuses in

00:50:19

Europe.

00:50:26

since

00:50:28

Soviet times, the

00:50:30

industrial or sectoral principle of

00:50:32

the formation of the Cabinet of Ministers has been preserved. And where do we have? Well, there

00:50:36

were even more than 20 ministries.

00:50:39

Now I think there are 19 left.

00:50:46

I would say that

00:50:51

both have the right to exist, but

00:50:53

still, I, as the president, will defend

00:50:57

one position, the number of ministries is not

00:50:59

so important, there are 20-22

00:51:01

ministries in the regions of the world, we have

00:51:04

analyzed this entire range of what and

00:51:07

how can be the key principle behind what

00:51:09

the Ministry should be responsible for, our idea is to

00:51:12

make the Ministries compact and

00:51:13

small. The Ministry should be responsible

00:51:15

only for the formation of policies. Everything

00:51:17

related to the control of the

00:51:20

management of some state property

00:51:24

should be transferred to the state

00:51:25

agencies themselves. a

00:51:36

certain regulation, in any

00:51:38

case, we have to regulate issues

00:51:40

related to ecology, issues related

00:51:42

to human health, safety, there are

00:51:45

issues that need to be regulated, is there a need

00:51:49

for pharmacovigilance there, or is it the same

00:51:52

tax service, the same institution, that's how

00:51:54

the Ministry is going forms policy, and

00:51:57

there are people who have vision, have the

00:52:02

ability to form policy, understand how to

00:52:04

set a task for the expert community to

00:52:07

calculate the consequences of changes in the model and mass media,

00:52:11

to be able to read it and turn it into a

00:52:13

political decision into a decision regarding

00:52:14

state policy, as well as set

00:52:17

tasks and monitor the work of

00:52:19

state agencies of the Ministries compact

00:52:21

Cabinet of Ministers a smaller one with a strong center of the government

00:52:25

that is responsible for the preparation of

00:52:27

draft laws, not every Ministry is

00:52:28

separate even from the deputies, we would take

00:52:31

it away so that there would be no spam, the secretariat of the

00:52:33

Verkhovna Rada has a sub-technical task of the

00:52:36

deputies in the form of writing laws in the same way and

00:52:40

in the cabinet of ministers to centralize everything as

00:52:43

much as possible in order to reduce

00:52:45

additional functions with which the

00:52:47

ministers are overburdened now, only the

00:52:50

politicians of the state agencies, maybe there should be

00:52:54

more. Many of them are

00:52:55

built on a temporary or project

00:52:58

or emergency basis. They have a clear, clear

00:53:00

goal.

00:53:09

take over the

00:53:13

development of the enterprise and privatize it,

00:53:16

and not manage it.

00:53:19

I made a visionary strategy for the

00:53:21

state property fund. It was very

00:53:23

beautiful and he died when he was

00:53:26

the head of the state property fund. He really

00:53:29

supported the most interesting breakthrough ideas

00:53:32

so that the state property fund fulfilled its project

00:53:34

function and disappeared when the state

00:53:38

got rid of its unprofitable ones. Even

00:53:41

profitable enterprises, but instead

00:53:43

received an increase in tax revenues

00:53:46

and the growth of the economy, so here are the project ones,

00:53:49

but there will also be systemic ones that will

00:53:52

exist for the current control, but

00:53:55

for sure the state will not be the controlling

00:53:57

body that hangs over because the key principle

00:54:00

according to which we will build state

00:54:02

institutions is inclusiveness. Ugh,

00:54:05

inclusiveness is much more important than the

00:54:08

strong institutions that Fukuyama tells us about,

00:54:10

inclusive institutions are

00:54:12

institutions whose decisions are based on the

00:54:16

involvement of the civil expert

00:54:18

environment, well, at least on the existing

00:54:20

dialogue absolutely When we thought about

00:54:22

Zoro and Sasha old age

00:54:25

Unfortunately, for some reason this is not

00:54:28

reflected in the book about transparent

00:54:31

written by Max Nefodov, one of the main ideas

00:54:33

was to build such that industry

00:54:36

associations have a significant influence on the

00:54:39

control

00:54:41

of tenders that are made for a

00:54:45

pre-conscious supplier and so

00:54:47

on, so inclusiveness, it will give the

00:54:49

opportunity to build a different quality of the

00:54:51

state, a state that will not dominate

00:54:55

it, a state that will be a tool we

00:54:57

pay taxes, we hired the state, and the

00:55:00

state realized our public

00:55:02

interest. The question is raised very often in society.

00:55:04

When we talk about

00:55:07

the state, after all, I already

00:55:09

told you about the reduction, you said that it is

00:55:11

necessary, and sometimes they even want

00:55:14

lustration. Why, because everyone who is now

00:55:18

let's transfer to your model four

00:55:20

states, law enforcement officers at a minimum and bureaucrats

00:55:23

at a minimum, they are the seeds of a different paradigm of

00:55:26

life, don't you think that if you

00:55:29

leave them in their positions, they will change

00:55:33

their paradigm and act in a

00:55:34

different way if they have been used to

00:55:36

living for decades, you know that as I sometimes

00:55:39

say this is their fodder base And if you take

00:55:43

away this fodder base Well they will go

00:55:45

to war against you and it will be very

00:55:47

difficult That's why when they say to me

00:55:49

Well how are you going to fight this

00:55:51

power

00:55:52

state I can see Why they are so

00:55:56

worried now and quickly ran to take up

00:55:59

matters of the 13th-12th year and make nightmare Business

00:56:04

they feel something that they feel

00:56:06

they feel the arrival of Europeans and

00:56:07

Americans who very clearly made it

00:56:10

clear that Ukraine is in such a

00:56:12

corrupt format They will not

00:56:14

just support they will do everything

00:56:16

to destroy corruption in Ukraine this

00:56:19

cooperation with the Europeans on this matter

00:56:21

is seen as one of the key factors for me,

00:56:23

but secondary

00:56:26

and primary factors are the first two, this is

00:56:28

to rely on civil society,

00:56:30

including business with veterans, I

00:56:32

just want to say that maybe our viewers do not know this, do

00:56:34

you think that entrepreneurs are

00:56:36

part of civil society We

00:56:38

even held a forum especially for this purpose on

00:56:40

May 30. Last year, at

00:56:44

which we publicly stated that business

00:56:48

is a part of civil society.

00:56:50

Everything is now me. I sometimes continue to say that

00:56:53

civil society includes business,

00:56:55

but I would like to stop doing this.

00:56:57

Business is part of civil

00:56:59

society,

00:57:00

so veterans there and to everyone. This is the first base

00:57:04

on which we should rely when carrying out

00:57:06

reforms, but the second. People who work in

00:57:09

the state should stop being perceived by us

00:57:12

as antagonists, let's see them as

00:57:15

our

00:57:16

representatives as hired service

00:57:18

employees. They should be

00:57:20

professionals and respectable

00:57:21

professionals. I am against lifelong

00:57:23

papacy. I am against mindless lustration. according to the

00:57:27

principle, I worked, I did not work. I am in favor of

00:57:30

professional selection. Professional selection

00:57:33

gives the opportunity to work to people who

00:57:35

really like Who is Gena Drozenko?

00:57:47

they use

00:57:50

entrepreneurial activity in order to

00:57:51

have a resource that gives them the opportunity to

00:57:54

implement service and they I look at what the

00:57:57

Odessa Business Club is doing there now

00:57:59

working on a new mythology of Odessa and a

00:58:01

new vision of Odessa what is being done

00:58:06

in our

00:58:09

coalition of business communities, the vast

00:58:11

majority of communities see the

00:58:13

key ideas for themselves: the development of culture, the

00:58:15

development of the country, volunteering,

00:58:17

support of the Armed Forces.

00:58:29

of ministers, some

00:58:31

other school that gives the opportunity to master the

00:58:35

peculiarities of civil service and become a

00:58:37

civil servant, this can be part of a

00:58:39

career, you are a professional, you are an entrepreneur, you are a

00:58:42

civil servant, and you are a teacher, these are

00:58:45

the stages of our development, the stages Andriy I

00:58:47

understood that our time is coming to an end,

00:58:50

and I understood why are we

00:58:53

not enough in our conversation, in our dialogue,

00:58:55

war, war, after all, we said that,

00:58:59

for some hours, you know, I plunged into

00:59:03

peacetime,

00:59:04

and our president is still the

00:59:07

commander-in-chief, can you pay attention

00:59:09

to what needs to be done so that, in addition to what you

00:59:12

suggested, I I understand that this is

00:59:14

underground, because in a war of attrition, the economy

00:59:17

is a key key point. What would you

00:59:20

do as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, why do you think now?

00:59:29

voiced just as there was a risk of

00:59:32

the deployment of large-scale aggression, the

00:59:34

first thing the president should do is to build

00:59:37

risk management at the state level, we

00:59:40

must prepare for the challenges of war in

00:59:43

the format we have now, this is the

00:59:46

biggest challenge, no, of course, no, is there a

00:59:50

smaller threat of nuclear war or a smaller

00:59:52

threat of that that the

00:59:54

European Union and our other partners will turn away from us, the

00:59:56

third world war will unfold in a

00:59:58

wider format, in which Ukraine

00:59:59

will become a small part, all the attention of the world

01:00:02

will be transferred to another space, and we

01:00:05

will simply be alone with the

01:00:09

aggressor, there are other risks, risks of total

01:00:12

degradation, where the population that we we have

01:00:14

mobilization now and the discussion

01:00:16

showed it very clearly, our model showed

01:00:20

that the mobilization of another 15% of men

01:00:25

from business will lead to economic

01:00:26

collapse, this is one of the reasons why the

01:00:30

law on mobilization was stopped now, we showed a

01:00:32

more serious social phenomenon. It

01:00:34

seems to me like internal migration. Yes, when

01:00:37

only men will be to hide from

01:00:39

the state, this is already happening, people

01:00:41

do not want to officially organize a project

01:00:43

there, there are many, many

01:00:44

things, the first is the issue of defense capability, the

01:00:48

construction of the defense-industrial

01:00:51

complex, more freedoms there, which I am

01:00:53

now very actively working on, working on the

01:00:55

unification of entrepreneurs into clusters,

01:00:57

producers of drones, mortars, ammunition,

01:01:00

other weapons, it should be together with the state

01:01:03

from a more open Ministry of Defense

01:01:05

in relation to them. I followed this whole story while

01:01:08

working on the strategy of

01:01:11

Ukrobronprom, helping various

01:01:13

ministries, I see what a gap we have between

01:01:16

what the army needs and what the

01:01:19

Ministry of Defense plans for procurement and

01:01:21

what able to produce in us business and

01:01:24

state Until now,

01:01:26

the structures of this all must be radically

01:01:28

changed state procurement for several

01:01:31

years ahead, which gives the opportunity for business

01:01:34

to invest and deploy large-scale production here.

01:01:42

20 are sufficiently scalable,

01:01:45

then you think that the idea of home drones, well,

01:01:47

you are the one who caused the

01:01:51

discussions in society. Well, it doesn't work.

01:01:53

Let's be a strategist and a person with an engineering

01:01:56

education, and my first education is

01:02:00

system optimization. I know that it won't

01:02:03

work. What is this about the state? is still afraid to

01:02:05

give us the right to armed self-defense by

01:02:09

not selling us pistols and forbidding

01:02:12

us to defend ourselves at all, even when you

01:02:15

have a weapon, you imagine what will happen if

01:02:18

everyone can assemble a drone in the kitchen, because

01:02:22

weapons are still responsible, you

01:02:25

register them, and when

01:02:26

thousands instead Thousands of drones

01:02:29

will fly over the Maidan, somewhere on Hrushevskyi, to the

01:02:31

bank, this seems to me to be a real threat, they did not

01:02:34

calculate these risks because there is no

01:02:35

risk of management and strategizing, how

01:02:38

creative creativity drives, although you and I,

01:02:41

as marketers, like it too,

01:02:43

but it does not give us the opportunity to

01:02:46

systematically build the second decision

01:02:50

regarding the war itself is that there is not enough

01:02:53

human resources, but we are not fighting with

01:02:55

human resources, first of all, in order to

01:02:57

control drones, drones can be

01:02:59

controlled from Kyiv from a bunker, it is not

01:03:01

necessary to be at the front before this, but

01:03:03

in any case, human

01:03:05

resources are needed I have two basic ideas, the first is

01:03:08

to increase recruitment. Uhu. I think that the

01:03:10

populist decision that worked in a certain way,

01:03:13

100,000 hryvnias for those who are at the front,

01:03:16

it was a populist decision because it did not

01:03:18

have a mathematical justification, it

01:03:19

led to the devaluation of the hryvnia and to

01:03:22

financial problems, to the point that our

01:03:23

international partners refused

01:03:25

to finance direct warfare

01:03:28

because they will say, well, you are such a

01:03:30

populist decision, why are you now

01:03:32

transferring it to us? But I believe that

01:03:34

our heroes should receive more, we

01:03:36

have state-owned PrivatBank,

01:03:38

Sensbank, why are they state-owned,

01:03:40

why are they not joint-stock the benefit of those

01:03:42

who are fighting and their families, I would provide for the

01:03:45

families, I would pay attention, I would

01:03:48

understand that we have crazy resources in the

01:03:50

country, we are a very underestimated country, and in terms of

01:03:53

minerals, first of all,

01:03:56

these licenses should be part of Our heroes,

01:03:58

therefore, returning from the front You are getting

01:04:00

much more than you are getting now, a little

01:04:02

more than what you are spending

01:04:03

these 100,000 UAH on now, we also know that

01:04:06

you are buying ammunition that

01:04:08

the Ministry of Defense should provide you with.

01:04:11

Therefore, this is fake money paid by

01:04:13

the state, therefore recruiting, which will be the

01:04:16

most attractive for people this is not

01:04:19

mandatory Front-line work is work in the

01:04:21

rear, this is work with drones, which

01:04:24

can definitely be done by IT experts who get

01:04:26

another opportunity for themselves, but have another idea,

01:04:30

we have 1.5 million According to various

01:04:32

estimates, from a million to 15 million

01:04:34

security forces, maybe we need to recruit

01:04:37

and mobilize They won't go to the tax service, they won't

01:04:40

go to the patrol police, but

01:04:43

patrol policemen, patrol

01:04:44

policemen, Mr. President, they won't go, you

01:04:47

have to give the order to go to

01:04:49

the front, listen to what I say.

01:05:03

approach and I, as the

01:05:06

president, would say that I understand the end.

01:05:09

As the president, I said that everyone is important.

01:05:12

As the president, I would say that

01:05:14

those who left are very important to the country.

01:05:16

Because we will need many more people to rebuild the country

01:05:22

than are currently in Ukraine. I

01:05:24

asked I would like them to pay taxes in

01:05:26

Ukraine and for sure we could agree with

01:05:28

our international partners on this and the

01:05:30

process is going like this.

01:05:43

stronger, paying taxes, detenteizing one

01:05:46

's own business, and for this I would create the

01:05:48

conditions through the reforms that you and I have already

01:05:52

listed, any citizen

01:05:54

who is in the country or outside

01:05:56

the country is important for the state, and I emphasized

01:05:58

as president that I do not

01:06:00

do any segregation here for me,

01:06:03

of course, everyone who fights at the front is a

01:06:06

hero. Whoever helps the army is a hero. Whoever

01:06:10

donates is a hero. Of course, priority is given

01:06:13

to the military and those who are at the front, and the full

01:06:15

attention of society and my personal attention to them,

01:06:18

but this does not mean that I consider others to be

01:06:21

second-class people. Andriy, you are

01:06:24

our right came to the end. I remind

01:06:26

our viewers once again to subscribe to the

01:06:28

channel and comment on everything they

01:06:31

heard. And let's say they wrote their

01:06:35

suggestions too. And to you, I thank you very much for

01:06:38

coming.

01:06:42

I just want to

01:06:44

disclaimer that I am

01:06:46

not going to run for president,

01:06:48

my task is to consolidate

01:06:50

civil society and help.

01:06:52

Time will tell. You will change your mind one day,

01:06:56

because one way or another, if there is no

01:06:58

political process in the country, and it is still in on our

01:07:01

broadcasts, it is possible that after some time he will

01:07:04

appear again because

01:07:08

it is an important element, just as rotation is an important element at the front,

01:07:12

rotation is also an

01:07:16

important element in politics. Thank you, Andrii, thank you

Description:

Політтехнолог Сергій Гайдай у новому ток-шоу «PROПОНУЮ ВАМ СТАТИ ПРЕЗИДЕНТОМ» поспілкувався із вченим, громадським діячем, підприємцем та футурологом Андрієм Длігачем. У цьому випуску Сергій Гайдай запропонував гостю стати президентом України на одну годину. «Українська держава — це втручання у всі сфери життя українців і бажання, щоб закріпачений народ був слухняним». У випуску обговорюють такі питання: Чому конституційні повноваження президента необхідно обмежити? Чому спроби побороти корупцію, мультиплікуючи антикорупційні інституції, не працюють? Яка основна перепона розвитку та інвестицій в українську державу? Як під час війни силовики знищують нашу країну зсередини? Відповідає на всі ці запитання у новому випуску «PROПОНУЮ ВАМ СТАТИ ПРЕЗИДЕНТОМ» вчений, громадський діяч, підприємець і футуролог Андрій Длігач. Випуск «PROПОНУЮ ВАМ СТАТИ ПРЕЗИДЕНТОМ» з Геннадієм Друзенком https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vokXW_cN2KE Дивіться інші цікаві відео на каналі: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQbWh3mIiEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi-BmxT9_oo Підписуйся на ProUA — справжній PROукраїнський канал https://www.youtube.com/@ProUA?sub_confirmation=1 Ми в соц мережах: https://www.facebook.com/proukrainian.ua https://www.instagram.com/pro.ua_?igsh=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA== https://www.tiktok.com/@pro.ua_?_t=8iVRUn7iVIz https://t.me/proua_media ✔️ Підписуйся на канал ProUA в Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ProUA?sub_confirmation=1 🔔 тисніть на «дзвоник», щоб отримувати сповіщення про нові відео на каналі

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