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Russian
00:00:02
guest, this is Michael Scheiderman, political scientist,00:00:04
writer, hello Mikhail Yes,00:00:07
hello So Mikhail Well, if00:00:10
we discuss this possible00:00:13
proposed option, what consequences00:00:15
could really happen if Prigozhin00:00:17
gets a really00:00:18
official power in Russia that is no longer the same00:00:21
influence that he has now? has, namely,00:00:23
some kind of not supreme, but00:00:25
rather some kind of strong position00:00:28
in the elites,00:00:31
he now has a strong position in the elites,00:00:33
some formal positions in this00:00:36
sense, they cost much less than00:00:38
what he has today, he has the00:00:39
most strong army in Russia Besides the fact00:00:42
that he has the dude Wagner, in fact,00:00:44
over the last two months and a half, he00:00:46
has taken control of the00:00:48
rest of the Russian army because the00:00:50
Surikovs were appointed by Prigozhin and not Shoigu, and00:00:54
naturally Prigozhin gives orders to00:00:56
Surikov to Shoigu, so Well,00:00:59
most of the army As we understand, the combat-ready00:01:01
unit is all in Ukraine at the front,00:01:03
so these people are also commanded by00:01:05
Prigozhin and to be swapped for00:01:08
some position there,00:01:09
deputies of the State Duma don’t know, or I don’t even00:01:12
know the deputy chairman of the00:01:14
State Duma, it would, frankly, be00:01:16
of no interest to him. I think that in all this00:01:19
information that supposedly comes from00:01:21
some sources there is a part00:01:23
that is real, there is a part that is made up, this is00:01:26
the story about what some kind of00:01:28
party is creating, that’s all Which party00:01:31
Prigozhin understands perfectly well, just like all00:01:33
reasonable people in Russia now, that00:01:35
there are no parties there won’t be any of this, there won’t be00:01:37
any elections, there won’t be any if00:01:39
he fights against United Russia in the elections00:01:41
or something. Why is he00:01:43
going to take everything and all the power at once00:01:45
Naturally, he understands that after the war00:01:47
there will be a military dictatorship and00:01:50
the question is No, I’m not saying that there will be00:01:52
necessarily the head of this dictatorship or the00:01:54
president of Russia, I’m not even saying00:01:56
that he will overthrow Putin, but the fact00:01:58
that he is now engaged in the fight against the00:02:00
rest of the elite such as Patrushev00:02:02
Shoigu, he has already actually eaten now00:02:05
his next goal is Patrushev, this is what00:02:06
he is now doing to taking a00:02:08
place at the very top really00:02:10
doesn’t matter having some kind of position without having a00:02:13
prostatic security site00:02:15
or the president, which is also quite00:02:18
acceptable. Why not, that is, these00:02:20
attacks on the current governor of00:02:23
St. Petersburg are what they00:02:25
call a petty game and not what -that’s00:02:27
where his desires are again to take his00:02:29
place; perhaps he once dreamed of being00:02:31
the governor of St. Petersburg, but apparently00:02:33
now he already has other ambitions No, not really, by00:02:36
the way, why isn’t it here?00:02:38
Indeed, this is an important step for him.00:02:40
Possibly becoming the governor of St. Petersburg.00:02:42
Possibly informal becoming a governor is a00:02:44
step to the top for him, because he00:02:46
began his public political career00:02:48
quite recently, it started in September00:02:50
literally, that is, the third month of his public00:02:52
career. And in the third and third month,00:02:55
we, watching him, see how he quickly00:02:57
quickly runs to the top, he is already the head00:03:00
of the head of the Russian he is already00:03:02
giving orders to the army in the regions, he is already communicating00:03:05
with the people. Well, on a weekly basis, at least,00:03:08
he is a hero of the nation; for him, in00:03:11
his honor, they sing praises for him there Simonyan00:03:13
Solovyov, and so on. That is, he bought these people00:03:15
too, he bought himself the most00:03:17
influential propagandists The two most00:03:19
influential propagandists Russia and00:03:21
he needs St. Petersburg as a base.00:03:23
What is it called a caravan, you know, he’s a00:03:26
nomadic warrior, he needs to have00:03:28
a base to take Moscow and he wants to00:03:30
make an insurance base from00:03:32
St. Petersburg, the second largest00:03:33
city in Russia, 5 million people there, in00:03:35
my opinion, and so on, he built a00:03:37
skyscraper there which is now called the00:03:39
dude Wagner and note this They00:03:41
opened the office of the Wagner PMC there without the00:03:44
skyscraper being put into operation00:03:46
and this was shown in all the news in Russia00:03:48
What an unfinished business it is important that00:03:50
now there is an official Warner headquarters in00:03:52
St. Petersburg and of course He wants to take00:03:55
away all the influence, remove Beglov, and00:03:58
perhaps if it doesn’t work out, he00:03:59
’ll just take away the actual power,00:04:01
he’ll say, I’m now the master here. Well,00:04:03
Smolny will be there. If you want00:04:04
pieces of paper, subscribe, and they decide here, I00:04:06
need the capital, he understands that there00:04:08
will be a War for Moscow. that After the00:04:10
defeat of the Russian Federation Everything can00:04:12
be very different, naturally there00:04:14
will be some elements00:04:15
of the Civil War, they may be hot00:04:17
or cold, we don’t know For now, but there will be a00:04:19
Southern Front led by Kadyrov, there will be a00:04:22
Northern Front led by00:04:23
Prigozhin and it will be necessary to take Moscow00:04:25
somehow, perhaps politically possible, by00:04:27
military means,00:04:28
so colorfully you talk about the00:04:31
possible prospects of Prigozhin, about his00:04:33
zeal for power, how he is rapidly00:04:35
moving towards this power, and in reality, in these00:04:37
three months in the information space of the00:04:38
Wagner PMC and Prigozhin Well, just I00:04:41
really want to ask Putin gives him00:04:44
permission to do all these actions for this00:04:46
purchase. As you say, propagandists and is00:04:49
n’t Putin afraid of the fact that, well, Prigozhin is00:04:51
very rapidly since he is moving00:04:53
to power and will oust Putin himself.00:04:55
Putin, of course, does not give it because all this is his00:04:58
own initiative Prigogine, it’s like, at least00:05:01
he’s not old enough to tell us now,00:05:03
but simply energetically he’s a very young00:05:05
man. While he still behaves in the public field00:05:07
much more convincingly than00:05:11
any of the other politicians. Let’s take the00:05:12
propagandists aside, this is a00:05:15
different profession. But if we take politicians00:05:17
And who else is as bright as Prigozhin?00:05:19
Putin is losing to Prigogine in terms of brightness.00:05:21
Putin has already become boring and boring, and00:05:24
Prigozhin acts with incendiary swords,00:05:26
so he is the brightest in politics.00:05:27
Naturally, he doesn’t ask for any permission.00:05:28
Putin, of course, is afraid of00:05:31
his cook. Prigogine understands that00:05:33
the cook probably has a grudge against him. also00:05:35
past grievances, I think that we understand many of us.00:05:37
This man has been in the role of food for so many years,00:05:39
he served food to all00:05:41
these people, and now he is going to become00:05:43
their master and devour them with Putin, he00:05:46
can achieve some kind of balance, that’s00:05:48
another question, I think that Putin,00:05:49
for example, has now gone into self-isolation, the so-00:05:52
called Putin has already been for 10 days. There are no00:05:54
old recordings from00:05:57
May 9 on air at all, and she was one of them on May 9, the00:06:00
recording was allegedly but now recorded. But00:06:02
Putin is not there because he is watching who00:06:04
wins. Putin depends on Prigozhin00:06:06
today Putin depends on the PMC, because00:06:08
he is also going to, but Putin has not yet given up00:06:10
in the war, Putin is going to win00:06:11
the war with us and Putin made a bet, he just00:06:14
realized that only the dude was taken by00:06:16
Severodonetsk and the Lisichansk PMC00:06:19
saved his career for Putin and00:06:20
Putin’s political life then in June having taken00:06:23
Severodonetsky now, without this Putin00:06:25
would no longer be in power, so today00:06:27
Putin depends on Prigozhin and not Prigozhin00:06:29
on Putin Mikhail. What is the attitude of the00:06:32
other Kremlin Elites, in particular they have00:06:35
already mentioned the same Shaiga, who has00:06:37
actually already eaten, also Patrushev,00:06:40
who he is going to eat Here's more there00:06:42
is probably Kovalchuk, who also00:06:43
has a serious influence, it is clear that00:06:45
we don’t take into account people like Mishustin or Medvedev,00:06:47
that is, real00:06:48
active figures. But here’s how they00:06:50
feel about the growing influence of the00:06:53
growing essentially greatness of00:06:55
Prigozhin,00:06:57
or there’s not much there at all pieces00:06:59
if one of them is Patrushev and with00:07:03
Patrushev they are obvious enemies00:07:05
because the FSB is trying in every possible way to kill, roughly00:07:07
speaking, the Wagnerites FSB, as far as we00:07:10
know from the gulag above the source,00:07:13
Prigozhin handed over his headquarters to our00:07:16
armed forces. When in the Lugansk00:07:18
region we got into the building Where was00:07:20
at this moment Prigozhin, that is, Patrushev,00:07:22
is his obvious enemy and Patrushev, in00:07:24
general, is probably the only force. Well,00:07:25
one of the two forces that, in principle,00:07:27
can stop Prigozhin from ascending. It’s00:07:29
not a fact that he will succeed, but he is00:07:30
now trying to do it while00:07:32
Prigozhin is waging a war, bombing Kiev is00:07:35
bombing other Ukrainian cities there,00:07:36
destroying our infrastructure Patrushev00:07:38
is trying to00:07:41
negotiate with the Americans with his mouth, that’s why00:07:42
we see such a confrontation and00:07:44
Putin is looking at which of them will be00:07:45
better able to win00:07:47
the war, Prigozhin or Patrushev. Agree with the00:07:49
Americans, that’s what concerns the second00:07:51
elite which you mentioned are the00:07:53
Kovalchuks who control the00:07:54
presidential administration and for whom the00:07:56
client works, I don’t know there, I00:07:59
don’t have an answer to the question are00:08:02
they now allies of Prigozhin, have00:08:04
they entered into an alliance or are they fighting against00:08:05
Prigozhin, it’s just that it’s00:08:08
not breaking through to the surface yet then I00:08:10
draw all conclusions from open sources00:08:12
from what is visible, it is not yet visible on the00:08:14
surface. You said that Putin is00:08:19
dependent on the first degree of the00:08:21
VK, for example, do not legalize it,00:08:25
but he does not need to00:08:27
make it suggested, only stronger. He does00:08:29
n’t want strengthening of Prigogine, he wants00:08:31
so that Prigozhin does a00:08:33
certain job for him, solves his00:08:34
specific problem But if he also00:08:36
legalizes the dude, it will turn out that00:08:38
Prigozhin has become stronger Although let’s say00:08:40
this is why Putin doesn’t do this00:08:43
But the truth is much broader The truth is00:08:46
that there is nothing legal or00:08:47
illegal in Russia anymore came out of all the00:08:49
laws, out of all the rules and agreements00:08:53
and regulation. Well, from the point of view of00:08:55
international legislation, for example, we know00:08:56
that Russia simply doesn’t give a damn about it.00:08:58
If you think that they00:09:00
comply with some laws within Russia,00:09:01
then of course not. And of course, who, for00:09:04
example today he does not issue decrees on behalf of00:09:06
Putin, we know I know that Putin today does00:09:09
not communicate with a single person, he00:09:10
has not signed anything for 10 days, but someone00:09:13
has signed his decrees, appropriating00:09:15
poplar cities with military glory for the victory00:09:17
over fascism, you understand there is no legality there today00:09:20
legal procedures00:09:22
Nobody is trying to follow this anymore,00:09:23
all this is in the past, before we talked about00:09:26
Putin as a person who strives to00:09:27
put everything on paper, remember it is important00:09:30
that everything is according to the law, because he is a lawyer00:09:32
We talked about this before February 24 Why00:09:34
was February 24 for us a huge00:09:36
surprise, including because he did00:09:39
n’t even try to invent a legal reason00:09:40
for war. We thought that now he would00:09:43
create an incident. Bey or disguised00:09:44
Russian Soldiers in Ukrainian uniforms would00:09:46
attack Belgorod and take00:09:48
something there. Rostov Yes, but it was00:09:50
nothing simple so they attacked not Why do we want00:09:52
and now it all continues exactly in the00:09:55
same style and there are no laws anymore00:09:58
Well, listen to the law of Russia, after00:10:00
reading the laws of Russia today you00:10:02
will not know where the border is and Putin’s press secretary00:10:04
to the question Where are the borders of the00:10:05
Zaporozhye region of the Russian Federation00:10:07
in the sense that he says that let the residents00:10:09
decide for themselves later, then you understand00:10:11
What kind of laws are we talking about?00:10:13
Let’s go back to the figure of Prigozhin himself.00:10:17
All these videos that were recorded.00:10:19
Well, it’s obviously not by chance that when he00:10:21
comes to the penal colony there and00:10:24
willow agitates, let’s say, the prisoners00:10:27
there he his speeches are striking00:10:30
at the same time with cruelty, harshness,00:10:32
let’s say, and uh, truthfulness,00:10:35
sincerity, because he doesn’t hide that00:10:36
if any disobedience00:10:38
results in execution, that is, he seems to immediately00:10:40
speak directly to people like this openly.00:10:42
Perhaps this is a feature of that00:10:44
communication in that an environment which, by the way,00:10:46
Prigozhin is familiar firsthand,00:10:49
and also as a person who was sitting here. Well,00:10:51
his cruel character, again, we remember00:10:53
the reaction to the execution of the former Wagner. Yes,00:10:57
when he said dogs are a dog’s death, yes, that00:10:59
is, this is how the image of00:11:00
such a tough person is formed, even as such00:11:03
cruel But fair, such a00:11:06
sincere uh leader Well, that’s how00:11:09
popular he is now, this image is precisely00:11:12
about the military-minded Russian00:11:14
society among those who really00:11:16
support the war because, after00:11:18
all, there’s some kind of parallel00:11:19
with Stalin, who is also very revered00:11:21
in some Russian circles00:11:24
Yes, he is even cooler than Stalin for my taste00:11:26
because it seems to me that I naturally do not have00:11:28
sociological data here. I00:11:29
will rely only on some kind of00:11:30
intuition because I communicate with Russians.00:11:33
As you understand, not enough. It00:11:35
seems to me that this is in demand, that this is such00:11:37
super Putin00:11:38
once Putin came in contrast with00:11:40
Yeltsin and with all sorts of00:11:42
different democrats in 2000, as a tough man,00:11:45
Yeltsin would never have said that we would00:11:47
soak someone in the toilet, but Putin00:11:48
immediately said that he was tortured in the apartment and00:11:50
won on this one meme elections of 200000:11:52
presidential elections his first Then00:11:55
he already won them in other ways00:11:57
and we no longer needed to say00:11:58
anything today when Putin is weak00:12:01
when Putin is old and weak and all of00:12:04
Russia sees it They haven’t understood this yet if you00:12:05
ask them They do they won’t say, but00:12:08
inside you can’t deceive a person, and when00:12:09
he looks at an old, elderly00:12:12
dictator who is no longer capable of anything,00:12:13
clearly a political impotent, then00:12:16
they feel all this inside the Russians, and suddenly a00:12:18
young Putin appears, the Putin of00:12:21
twenty years ago, this same00:12:22
Prigozhin, only he even Putin 20 years ago00:12:26
is more suitable for00:12:28
today 20 years ago 22 years00:12:31
ago when Putin came to power, after all,00:12:32
Russian society was not yet a00:12:33
society of such degenerates, it00:12:36
was still people who were more or less educated,00:12:38
often Well then and what else -someone who00:12:41
understood something else, who was thinking about something00:12:43
because they lived in an environment where there were00:12:45
competing00:12:46
media, interesting various00:12:48
TV channels, books were published, among other things, in00:12:50
Russia. Now they are dealing, I mean,00:12:53
Russian politicians are dealing with the00:12:55
society that they built, a society of00:12:56
morons and degenerates. zombies who have00:12:58
n’t read anything don’t know how to do anything They don’t know how to00:13:00
make nails Not because they don’t00:13:01
know how to make them, they have00:13:04
lost the secrets of craftsmanship, so00:13:06
to speak, craftsmanship, and so on,00:13:07
so they need the simplest and most00:13:10
primitive technique and they are very happy with00:13:13
Prigozhin as a person who speaks with the00:13:15
simplest words, as you00:13:16
emphasized, absolutely cruel because00:13:18
he has no boundaries,00:13:19
no laws, he does not try to reason in their00:13:21
categories, this is how00:13:23
Russians think, this is what Prigozhin says -00:13:26
this resonates in the hearts of today's00:13:27
Russians. I mean the majority of00:13:29
Russians. which supports the war,00:13:31
this is for them. This is dear to them, they hear their own soul,00:13:34
and of course shoot, but what else00:13:36
should everyone be shot? They say this is the00:13:38
Empire of Death now, so it00:13:41
very accurately fits into the image they need.00:13:44
What do you think, does00:13:49
Prigogine have he is a sole proprietor, I can00:13:51
call them faithful No, I can’t, he buys00:13:54
people, this is his approach, he is a00:13:58
very rich man, and he, unlike00:14:00
some, I mean all sorts of00:14:02
relaxed oligarchs. He doesn’t spend00:14:05
money on yachts. We have never heard00:14:06
anything about Prigozhin’s yachts. spends00:14:08
money to gain power,00:14:09
so he pays people and pays well.00:14:11
He hires those who are worth the most,00:14:14
hires the best. He hired the singer Shnur,00:14:17
for example, who has been glorifying him for 200:14:19
years, has been working for him and fighting with the00:14:21
fugitive, he has now hired Solovyov and00:14:23
Shimane this people are also not cheap. I think00:14:25
that he buys everyone, not necessarily with00:14:27
someone else’s money, with someone else’s money with00:14:28
promises of future authorities, he is a situational00:14:31
ally with Kadyrov, together they are trying,00:14:32
for example, to buy Sobyanin for themselves, these are already00:14:34
obvious such steps are enough00:14:36
again, I’m not talking about money because00:14:38
Sobyanin is also naturally a very rich00:14:40
man, a billionaire and all that, but someone00:14:42
can be bought for money, such as Shnur00:14:44
or Solovyov, someone can be bought for00:14:46
future Glory or for future power, he is00:14:49
now buying up people all over the Kremlin And the00:14:51
word with in the Kremlin cannot be00:14:53
allies there are no friends of allies there. It’s00:14:55
just completely absent as a class.00:14:57
No one is loyal to anyone, no one00:14:59
trusts anyone, not a single person. I00:15:01
mean now before, of course,00:15:03
the Kremlin was structured differently, there were00:15:05
personal relationships now, well, probably the00:15:06
last personal relationships in the Kremlin00:15:08
that in principle, the only people left are the00:15:10
Kovalchuk and Putin, but that’s probably00:15:12
all. What do you think? In this fight, well,00:15:15
in fact,00:15:17
only the FSB is fighting against Prigozhin now, as you said. Well, it’s00:15:20
trying. Yes, somehow it’s possible to plot intrigues there00:15:23
somewhere, somehow. Like you What do you think is00:15:25
their real opportunity in00:15:29
terms of really restraining,00:15:31
let’s say Prigozhin, to continue00:15:34
to hinder his, let’s say,00:15:36
rise to power,00:15:39
the possibilities are very large, firstly, I00:15:41
mentioned the Kovalchuks, and these are the people00:15:43
who control the administration,00:15:44
it’s possible that they are also fighting against00:15:46
Prigogine, as I emphasized, I simply don’t know the00:15:47
correct answer, but as for the00:15:50
FSB, there are a lot of tools and here everything00:15:53
depends on just one thing about which00:15:54
I also can’t give the correct answer00:15:56
because I don’t know. We don’t00:15:57
let anyone in there and we don’t see it. We00:16:00
don’t we know what form00:16:01
Patrushev is in, in moral form, in00:16:03
intellectual form, and so on, we understand,00:16:05
we know that Patrushev Who once00:16:07
came to power, he was more or less,00:16:09
even if not a public figure, but a lot was known about him,00:16:11
and who is00:16:13
Patrushev now? is he the same lazy wreck00:16:15
as Putin, who doesn’t understand anything, or is00:16:18
he still an energetic00:16:20
leader? That’s the question. We don’t know00:16:23
how much he is mired in idleness or00:16:25
not. Well, for example, Mikhail Fridman00:16:27
once became an oligarch, he was probably a00:16:29
very energetic, strong, painful00:16:31
person but when everything was taken away from him,00:16:33
it turned out that this was already a relaxed,00:16:34
fat old man who said that my00:16:36
cleaning lady was taken away from me. I now00:16:44
feel like a prisoner. You see, here’s the question about Patrushev, if his cleaning lady is taken away from him tomorrow, he will say, I now feel like a00:16:45
prisoner, or He will take a rag and go00:16:47
wash the floor You see, this depends on this:00:16:49
if in such a situation he takes00:16:51
a rag and goes to wash the floor, then he can00:16:53
defeat Prigozhin. And if he00:16:55
says in such a situation, Mom, I’m in captivity, then he00:16:57
will lose this war to Prigozhin. Thanks00:17:00
Mikhail Mikhail Sheiderman political scientist00:17:03
writer We discussed with him how Yevgeny00:17:06
Prigozhin is a mastermind trying to00:17:09
use, including the military in00:17:11
Ukraine, in order to collect as many00:17:13
dividends as possible for himself for the00:17:15
next possible rung of power and00:17:19
where he actually aims Thank youDescription:
Пригожин сегодня занимает в РФ самую сильную позицию – он имеет собственную боеспособную армию и влияние на российский генералитет. Об этом в прямом эфире телеканала FREEДOM рассказал писатель и политтехнолог Михаил Шейтельман. Гость эфира предположил, что Пригожин после окончания войны может возглавить РФ и создать новый режим – военную диктатуру под его руководством. 00:00 Смотрите в интервью: 00:08 Какую роль в РФ играет Пригожин 04:29 Пригожин затмил Путина, – Шейтельман 06:30 Как кремлевские элиты относятся к Пригожину 08:15 Почему Путин не легализирует ЧВК "Вагнер" 10:16 Как в РФ реагируют на жестокий нрав Пригожина 15:13 Кто пытается помешать Пригожину одержать власть в Кремле ПОДПИШИСЬ! - Telegram FREEДОМ: https://t.me/tv_freedom - Главные новости: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfw-Im__utr2oDnV4cbr8tQ - Интервью с самыми авторитетными экспертами: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq6rh0Rwn3iTsfJChFNUmjw - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser - Twitter: https://twitter.com/FreedomNewsUA - Telegram FREDOM.LIFE: https://t.me/dom_channel
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