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0:00
La memoria degli ucraini
2:25
La memoria dei russi
3:55
Il problema della memoria
7:00
Conoscere la storia
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00:00:00
[Music]
00:00:08
they would like
00:00:12
a very delicate topic
00:00:15
in the memory of today's Ukrainians,
00:00:21
probably the most
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terrifying episode of the twentieth century, the episode
00:00:25
around which the
00:00:28
memory of Ukrainians is built today and their sense of
00:00:30
being a people
00:00:32
who have always been threatened, attacked,
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etc. that the memory
00:00:37
of the Ukrainians must defend itself if one goes to look at their
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school textbooks. Here is the most
00:00:43
terrifying episode of the 20th century: hunger,
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famine, the great famine of the early
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1930s when the Soviet power from
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Moscow, Stalin from Moscow, to impose on the
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peasants throughout the Soviet Union the
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great reform the creation of
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collective property to therefore take away
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the peasants of their land and their
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livestock and collectivise everything
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met with resistance and where it
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met with resistance not only in
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Ukraine but also in other areas in
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Kazakhstan for example the hunger was
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however Ukraine was large
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peasant countries of the Soviet Union and where
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it encountered the existence Stalin
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decided to crush the resistance
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by starving the peasants by taking away their
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crops by force and leaving them to
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starve until they accepted
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even deporting them of course But also
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the first of the great
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deportations is precisely the confiscation of the
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crops and the farmers and leaving them to
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starve since they oppose
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the will of power from Moscow
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in the memory of the Ukrainians this thing
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first buried because during the
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Soviet Union it was not had to talk about it
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denied then emerged dramatically after
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the fall of the Soviet Union
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Ukraine has built the story
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of the tragedy of the twentieth century around
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this true thing which is at the center of
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their memory of how millions of people
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in Ukraine died of hunger for
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Moscow's fault
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But in the memory of the Russians
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if you ask them What is the greatest
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tragedy of the twentieth century the greatest
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tragedy of the twentieth century and the
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Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union the
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terrifying invasion of a
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murderous power that exterminated millions of
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people deported the Jews opened the
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extermination camps gassed the people
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burned the villages massacred the civilians
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and the Ukrainians in part
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the Ukrainians were accomplices but God towards the
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Soviet power upon the arrival of the Nazis they
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partly celebrated them and the Nazis
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were able to recruit militias among the
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Ukrainians and the Ukrainians collaborated
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in the extermination of the Jews and so on And
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this too is true it really happened
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then You understand two peoples of which one
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remembers the tragedy of the famine and
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the other remembers the tragedy
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of the Nazi invasion and each of the two
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peoples in their memory and the
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attacked people, the innocent people surrounded
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by Enemies who have suffered
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terrible injustices, terrible horrors in the past
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and both are right in saying
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these things have happened and for us they are
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unforgettable.
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The problem is that when you believe that everything
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ends then that's where
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your memory is what is
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worth remembering is what
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happened to others matters less or
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doesn't matter at all or we don't want to
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know and we don't know we know
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what happened to us and on this
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we establish our place in the world and
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our political agenda here
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you can see where they have arrived How it
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ended how it ended it didn't
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end at all but what is happening
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now
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until a month ago I would have given a
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more banal example How many Italian families
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have taught children to think
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proudly about April 25th and go to the parade
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when it's April 25th and In how many
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families did they teach the
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children but the Partisans weren't
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nice people, they stole their
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grandfather's cow, well they were a rabble, it would have been
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better to stay at home and Mussolini wasn't
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that bad, you know, it's not as they say,
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the regime wasn't that bad, how many
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Italian families were saying and saying
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this, eh And even there it's everyone's memory
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In that case it's easier for us to
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say be careful, the memories aren't
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they are all the same because then in the
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Second World War there were those who were
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on the right side and there were those who were
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on the wrong side
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but it's not like the memory of those who say
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under fascism things were fine and the
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regime also did some good things
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it's not totally false, you understand the point
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is that if you confuse your memory with
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history, that is, with the
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overall knowledge of what happened and you
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only see your point of view and then
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you don't get out of it, you remain a prisoner
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of your point of view, that's it. I don't know if I made myself
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clear if you also agree
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that our country is like this for
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example Here are These in these things
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No thanks also for this
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comparison because then there is One last
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question wasn't really the last But
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in short, what I thought was
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the last one which is the reflection
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we always make when we read things about
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history, history should help us to
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be a little more objective and in any case to
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see things
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as having a different breadth. In short,
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however, taking into account more aspects
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complexes of reality and not just to
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take sides. In short, because perhaps the
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problem of these situations like
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the ones we are living in is precisely
00:06:30
what many of us are perhaps
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worried about taking sides rather than
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understanding what is happening and it
00:06:37
is not easy either for one nor for the other and
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in any case the reflection is a bit like this
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says today with what is happening
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it would seem that humanity is incapable
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of learning from the history
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of the same old story of history
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Magistra lives and I don't know how
00:06:55
we get out of it let's say this
00:06:58
[Music]
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knowing the story has never been
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enough Obviously to avoid making
00:07:04
mistakes
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I believe that knowing the story is one
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of the many ways in which a person can
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have a little more open mind a little
00:07:13
more capable of understanding the complexity
00:07:16
of reality Well, it hasn't always been
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like this and there have also been eras in which
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history was asked instead to
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mobilize, er, the people, not to create
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national unity when the
00:07:29
history of Barbarossa and the
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Lombard League of the nineteenth century was written.
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concern was not so much to say
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let's teach people to think but it was
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to say let's create discourses behind
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which Italians can
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all feel united it was also a Noble thing.
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But different from what we would like to do.
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Here I feel like saying that at least
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in Western countries today
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what historians would like to do is to help
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everyone to remind us that the world is
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complicated that the reasons exist but
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they must be evaluated that we shouldn't march
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to the sound of music
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by grouping ourselves together without thinking about
00:08:09
things and then it's not easy it's not
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easy also because then we ourselves are
00:08:16
all inside a world in which
00:08:17
we have our opinions and our
00:08:20
passions. Of course, however, the story should
00:08:24
serve that purpose, it is here to help us
00:08:26
understand others, which doesn't mean
00:08:29
approving them but it means knowing that they
00:08:31
exist just as when we study the
00:08:35
past we realize that our grandparents
00:08:36
and our great-grandparents were not like us, they did
00:08:38
n't think exactly like us, they
00:08:41
partly had different ideas and those of
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a thousand years ago had an even more
00:08:46
different idea, no. Well, maybe similar to those
00:08:49
of other people which comes from distant countries and
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which today seems so strange to us and instead
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our ancestors of 1000 years ago were
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like this, here studying this must not
00:08:57
become
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a discussion of the type Oh well but then
00:09:03
everything is the same there are no values ​​the
00:09:04
Nazis or the anti-Nazis the same
00:09:06
thing because everyone had their reasons
00:09:07
no And everyone thought they were on the
00:09:10
down side it shouldn't be This of course
00:09:12
But let us get used to thinking that human beings
00:09:17
are not necessarily all like us that the
00:09:21
things that seem right to us in other
00:09:23
times are not you seem right and don't
00:09:25
scare us when we are faced
00:09:27
with these differences Here's this This is
00:09:31
what history is trying to do Today
00:09:33
I really thank you very much I don't know if
00:09:36
anyone because I have monopolized
00:09:39
the questions a bit if anyone still has
00:09:42
questions to ask someone Among
00:09:45
other things, I also left it out a bit.
00:09:46
So if the reading groups
00:09:49
still want to intervene with something
00:09:51
important, a question. Then there's
00:09:55
Alessandro, wait for the microphone to arrive.
00:09:59
Yes, can you tell us something about Lincoln's assassination?
00:10:04
Lincoln's assassination but
00:10:05
Lincoln's assassin is actually a
00:10:08
very specific and very
00:10:10
explainable and very absurd episode. In reality in the
00:10:14
sense that it is an individual initiative
00:10:17
that kills Lincoln, the president
00:10:19
of the United States as you know who
00:10:21
led the North in the War who
00:10:23
decided to go to war in the face of the
00:10:25
Secession of the South because in theory he
00:10:28
could also decide okay and we
00:10:30
'll let you go,
00:10:32
do the paste instead he thought that
00:10:34
his duty as president of the
00:10:36
United States was to save the union and prevent it from falling apart
00:10:39
would break And in doing this he
00:10:42
entered into a war that no one
00:10:44
imagined that would last years and
00:10:46
cost so much
00:10:48
and the moment the war ended
00:10:50
a few days after the war ended
00:10:54
President Lincoln went to the theater
00:10:56
in Washington with the wife
00:11:00
you know that at the time we went to the theater
00:11:02
just like we went to the cinema a few
00:11:04
decades ago every evening or almost every evening
00:11:06
let's say it was the normal evening pastime
00:11:09
he went to the theater and someone entered the theater He
00:11:11
shot him in the back of the
00:11:12
head with a pistol and then he ran away
00:11:16
and was then killed chased and killed
00:11:19
in combat A few weeks later
00:11:21
with the cavalry chasing him and
00:11:23
this was a famous actor a
00:11:26
theater tower his name was John wilkes Booth a
00:11:29
very famous actor in his time so much so
00:11:31
that he entered the theater without
00:11:33
anyone asked him for the Green pass
00:11:34
because um they knew everyone It was as if it
00:11:37
had been today I don't know Michele
00:11:39
Placido to say no here he is very famous
00:11:41
enters the theater and I'm going to kill
00:11:45
Lincoln because this actor this Boot
00:11:47
is a fanatical southerner and he is convinced that
00:11:51
it is the defeat of the South It's all Lincoln's fault
00:11:53
that Lincoln is the worst
00:11:55
enemy of the South so he wants to avenge the
00:11:58
South in reality then today there has
00:12:02
always been historians tend to say
00:12:04
Lincoln was a man of reconciliation
00:12:09
that reconciliation between North and South
00:12:11
that I have said but it took 10 or
00:12:14
15 years to arrive there were 10 or
00:12:16
15 heavy years with the
00:12:18
military occupation in the south and with a resentment
00:12:21
that was growing among the people today yes That is
00:12:26
today historians have always said
00:12:27
Lincoln would have managed it in another
00:12:29
way he would have been more capable of
00:12:31
bringing the north and the south back to agreement, perhaps
00:12:34
even the whites and the blacks, who knows, but given
00:12:37
the man's stature it was possible and
00:12:39
instead he disappeared. So in reality he did
00:12:41
something that
00:12:43
turned out to be disastrous even for the south but
00:12:46
he was convinced he acted alone There is no
00:12:49
conspiracy no no
00:12:52
strangeness Here and it was Obviously a
00:12:54
world in which a president of the
00:12:56
United States went to the theater and there were no
00:12:59
bodyguards and no tanks
00:13:01
out like now when one
00:13:04
of our mighty moves
00:13:06
[Music]

Description:

Alessandro Barbero descreve os episódios que levaram ao longo do tempo a um certo ódio entre a Ucrânia e a Rússia: a memória da fome de Stalin e sua opressão, por um lado, e a memória do nazi-fascismo ucraniano, por outro. La registrazione è avvenuta in occasione della presentazione del libro alla Biblioteca civica Don Lorenzo Milani, nell'ambito del progetto Leggermente, il 23 marzo 2021. Leggermente: https://bct.comune.torino.it/programmi-progetti/progetto/leggermente Fonte dell'estratto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D27Q4l8po74 🔔 Iscriviti al Canale per non perderti nessun video: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOhGl4NRM_l9FWiANhWvdzQ?sub_confirmation=1 💻 Il primo sito e Blog su Alessandro Barbero: https://www.vassallidibarbero.it/ Sostieni il Canale gratuitamente e guadagnando: ✅ 3 Mesi di Podcast e Musica Hi-Fi GRATIS (disdici quando vuoi): https://www.amazon.it/music/unlimited ✅ Guadagna il 10% su ogni cryptovaluta iscrivendoti a Binance: https://accounts.binance.com/en/register?ref=EVHDJZAO ✅ Guadagna 25$ iscrivendoti a Crypto(.)com: https://referral.crypto.com/signup?_branch_match_id=link-1001040160425171169 ✅ Offerte sul mondo della Storia: https://www.amazon.it/shop/alessandrobarbero-lastoriasiamonoi 📌 Donazioni: https://buymeacoffee.com/vassallibarbero 💬 Telegram Tutto Barbero: https://t.me/tuttobarbero 💬 Pagina Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser 💬 Gruppo Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser 👉 Sconto Esclusivo per gli iscritti al Canale su IppocampoEdizioni: inserisci il codice VASSALLI5 al checkout per un 5% di Sconto e spedizione in 24 ore. 📖 Link ai libri: https://www.vassallidibarbero.it/libri-ippocampo-edizioni-vassalli-barbero/ Sostieni il professore leggendo i suoi libri (Sconto Blog 5%): 📚 Inventare i Libri (Novità 2022): https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8809861914?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📯 Alabama (Novità 2021): https://www.amazon.it/Alabama-Alessandro-Barbero/dp/8838941947?_encoding=UTF8&language=it_IT 🌿 DANTE: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8858141644?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 La voglia dei cazzi e altri fabliaux medievali: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/889552232X?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Costantino il vincitore: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8869731383?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 La battaglia. Storia di Waterloo: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8842077593?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Lepanto. La battaglia dei tre imperi: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/884209613X?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Donne, madonne, mercanti e cavalieri. Sei storie medievali: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8858119282?ie=UTF8&camp=3414&creative=21718&creativeASIN=8858119282 📚 Carlo Magno. Un padre dell'Europa: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8842072125?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Caporetto: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0766396CK?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Bella vita e guerre altrui di mr. Pyle, gentiluomo: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8804703709?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Federico il Grande: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8838936927?ie=UTF8&camp=3414&creative=21718&creativeASIN=8838936927 📚 Benedette guerre. Crociate e jihad: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8858119894?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Il divano di Istanbul: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8838933529?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Gli occhi di Venezia: https://www.amazon.it/Gli-occhi-Venezia-Alessandro-Barbero/dp/8804734566?_encoding=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 Le Ateniesi: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0145W86FO?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT 📚 I prigionieri dei Savoia. La vera storia della congiura di Fenestrelle: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/8858111354?ie=UTF8&language=it_IT Consulta la nostra Playlist con tutti i video: 🅿️ Lezioni di Storia: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRXAqLAy6ZPq3rPVh76GPuIIZvhi26xVN Per questioni di copyright o suggerimenti: ➡️ Email nelle Info ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Musica intro: Duccio Bonciani - https://www.fiverr.com/auralstudio?afp=&cxd_token=77966_32342232&show_join=true © Ozymandias LoFi 🟢 Ascolta il brano intero: https://distrokid.com/ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ Disclaimer speciale per chi non legge le info del Canale: Il canale NON è monetizzato (se ci sono pubblicità è per via delle musiche, i compensi vanno ai rispettivi autori) Il professor Barbero non è parte attiva del Canale. Tutto il resto è ben specificato nella sezione Informazioni. ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ “In qualità di Affiliato Amazon potremmo ricevere un guadagno dagli acquisti idonei per il sostegno delle spese del Blog (server+dominio)"

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