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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:00
[Music]00:00:10
would have international against00:00:12
homophobia, transphobia and biphobia is00:00:15
celebrated every May 17 to commemorate00:00:19
the removal of homosexuality from00:00:22
the list of mental illnesses00:00:24
by the general assembly of the00:00:27
world health organization that00:00:29
took place on May 17 of May 1990, its00:00:34
main objective is to coordinate00:00:36
all types of actions that serve to00:00:40
denounce the discrimination to which00:00:42
homosexual,00:00:44
bisexual and transsexual people are subjected and to00:00:48
advance their rights throughout the world. In00:00:50
2015, biphobia was incorporated into the name00:00:54
of The campaign is already that00:00:56
bisexual people are discriminated against by the mono00:00:59
sexism that denies the attraction that00:01:02
can be felt for more than one sex,00:01:06
different gender and spiritual beliefs. Not00:01:09
without more book people believers,00:01:12
we understand the need to00:01:14
develop the values of tolerance00:01:16
respect acceptance and fraternity00:01:20
understanding that each faith and00:01:22
spirituality contributes its00:01:24
particular distinction with the aim of creating a00:01:27
better world where it is worth living00:01:33
my name is rosa araúxo00:01:36
I am 72 years old00:01:39
and I have been practicing as a lesbian although00:01:43
with a discovery a few years ago00:01:46
of bisexuality since 1980,00:01:53
previously I was married,00:01:56
I have six children and I have seven grandchildren. I00:02:00
am a Catholic Christian. I00:02:03
believe in the Trinity. I believe in life00:02:06
in the possibilities that the00:02:08
spirituality of the Holy Spirit gives us. In00:02:12
my belief, I have not had any00:02:16
type of controversy from within myself00:02:20
the controversies have come to me from outside00:02:22
from the power of others who00:02:25
understood that I could not be a believer00:02:29
if I was in a situation00:02:32
in my case of separation from the00:02:36
marriage and seeing that I opted for this was00:02:38
a matter of sin in quotes and00:02:42
they will be dominating the others. I have always00:02:44
felt like I was welcomed by God00:02:48
as I do in this00:02:51
aspect because there has been a very00:02:53
profound truth on my part in the00:02:55
discovery that I had this00:02:57
dimension,00:02:59
so look really closely. a deep00:03:01
pain00:03:05
with a deep pain because I00:03:07
sincerely believe that there is a position of00:03:10
power00:03:11
and not a position of mercy,00:03:15
so there is a tremendous confusion00:03:18
between the word and the gospel of Jesus00:03:21
and what these people try to make00:03:25
me believe, I don't know if The00:03:28
same thing will happen to the others as it is the word of the00:03:31
Lord, although it is the question of the Lord,00:03:35
I do not feel that at any time00:03:38
there is a rejection on the part of what is00:03:42
transmitted through the spirit00:03:45
through the word of God towards the00:03:50
rainbow community and yet the00:03:52
position of these brothers of ours00:03:54
is unfortunately very painful for00:03:57
us because it comes from the power of00:04:01
dogma which is another very terrible issue00:04:06
but I am Cristina Bernardo from Valladolid00:04:08
in addition to living here in Born here I00:04:10
am 22 years old I am a00:04:12
journalism student I am a lesbian, I am a00:04:15
soccer referee and I am a practicing Catholic, in00:04:18
fact, and I go to mass every Sunday,00:04:20
I go to a pastoral every Monday, I have00:04:23
many friends there, and it is something that I do00:04:26
normally, knowing where00:04:29
I have to move, what I can say in00:04:31
each moment and what not,00:04:32
how do you feel about the00:04:35
discriminatory messages towards the LG, do you see that they00:04:38
come precisely from the world of00:04:40
spirituality and you in your case, well, from00:04:43
the Catholic Church,00:04:45
well, they hurt me, I never know how to00:04:49
react because many of them have00:04:51
a theological base a pseudo00:04:54
theological base that I, as a student of theology,00:04:56
do not dare to refute but I know that it is not00:05:01
correct,00:05:02
I know that the message is love and a kiss that00:05:05
they say is that00:05:07
homosexual people usually say no, it is not love,00:05:10
it is a vice that we What we do is00:05:13
help them. It hurts me a lot that this is00:05:16
said from the Catholic Church,00:05:18
especially the Catholic Church, which is a00:05:20
very good message. I don't have much00:05:21
knowledge of other religions, but it is00:05:23
a message of love and it seems to me that it00:05:27
hurts me and when I read comments from00:05:30
people on Catholic RCTV who say that00:05:34
what they do is horrible, that God doesn't00:05:37
want it, come on, it's okay to be homosexual, what's00:05:40
not okay is in00:05:41
homosexual practices, that it's like eating00:05:43
dirt,00:05:44
it's atrocities and I never know how to00:05:47
answer them, it's poison.00:05:50
poison00:05:53
a man a little long ago like the00:05:55
American names that are00:05:58
very long s carmen margarita sánchez00:06:01
de león and I am I define myself let me tell you a little bit00:06:06
how I define myself as a woman00:06:07
of African descent from the Caribbean I am originally00:06:12
from Puerto Rico and I also studied I studied00:06:16
theology00:06:17
that is My area of study I am a mother along00:06:21
with my partner Frida who is Dutch with00:06:25
twins aged 11 and 10 years old, we have been living a00:06:28
long way00:06:30
and learning a lot about00:06:35
what motherhood is and also about00:06:37
building it and there is how we are00:06:40
serving the churches. of the00:06:42
metropolitan community since 1996 and I00:06:46
have also been participating in00:06:49
different human rights issues00:06:51
both in my country and outside my country00:06:54
my topics have been work, they have been00:06:56
human rights00:06:58
all the rights of the communities the00:07:00
axis the issues of feminism the00:07:05
antimilitarism and the issues related00:07:07
to colonialism to the processes of00:07:10
coloniality so that is basically00:07:13
what we are doing currently. I00:07:18
currently teach. I have the privilege00:07:20
of teaching classes in the00:07:25
theological community of Mexico and of00:07:27
coordinating a program that is the00:07:29
theology program. and gender, which is00:07:32
quite important in the context of00:07:35
Latin America given that in recent00:07:39
years we have seen, despite the advances00:07:42
of the feminist movements, we have00:07:45
seen a setback and some very00:07:48
severe blows towards feminisms towards00:07:52
gender issues and especially churches00:07:56
of structures preserving the existence00:07:59
of reveré00:08:00
pastors bishops cardinals and other00:08:04
beings00:08:05
is part of a hierarchical structure00:08:09
that contradicts even what we00:08:13
propose about the equity of00:08:17
horizontal relationships that we00:08:19
are all sons and daughters of God in equal00:08:21
condition and that church after00:08:24
all is a people a people that directs00:08:28
the l the holy spiritist that is to say what we00:08:34
call the holy spirit which I00:08:36
call holy spiritist because in its00:08:39
Hebrew root in its Greek root it is feminine00:08:43
to be an ordained minister is to affirm oneself00:08:47
within a ecclesiastical institution00:08:50
is to obtain a reverend title in my00:08:53
case and in my case also until a few00:08:58
days ago active in the cabinet as what00:09:01
you would call a bishop or in the00:09:05
context of the United States elder the duty in00:09:08
the reverend bishops margaritas years00:09:13
those are options for me They are00:09:15
political options the call the call that one00:09:19
speaks of the call that one feels in00:09:21
one's heart is a a relationship that comes00:09:26
from divinity in conjunction with the00:09:29
people if there is no that for me there is no00:09:33
call yes and that is where one finds makes it00:09:35
voluntary where there is a surrender and the00:09:38
political option if it also has to do00:09:40
in part with that surrender00:09:42
is in a few moments given in some00:09:45
junctures of which we decide for that00:09:47
political option this a political option00:09:50
signing as a woman00:09:52
is a political option affirming myself as a00:09:56
lesbian It is a political option to00:09:59
identify myself as Caribbean because I am00:10:03
breaking some structures from the00:10:06
moment I affirm myself as a woman. It00:10:09
is the type of woman I am that00:10:12
questions sexism, a patriarchy, hello00:10:16
heteronormative in the00:10:18
ecclesiastical hierarchy and some00:10:20
religious structure they have believed to be the owners. of the00:10:23
interpretation of God, the owners of00:10:28
biblical interpretation have believed that00:10:30
we can take God by the arm and00:10:36
put in God's mouth what00:10:40
our own00:10:42
provincial structures are. It is prudent to remember that00:10:45
black people, for example, suffer00:10:49
more, our ancestors suffered00:10:52
in the continent as part of what00:10:55
was the creation of what we call00:10:57
the Americas today, we suffered slavery and00:11:01
that slavery was justified by00:11:04
some theological arguments at the time,00:11:08
the hierarchy of the church that even00:11:12
at times denied the category of00:11:16
people to him being the black person in the00:11:21
same way the church has denied the00:11:24
category of human being and of sons and00:11:27
daughters and00:11:29
of god of many other sectors00:11:34
the great south african prophet desmond tutu00:11:38
in a wonderful book that I00:11:40
recommend that is called strangers in00:11:44
the house of god is a book of00:11:47
south african theology he says in the prologue00:11:50
the great00:11:52
guiding era of the christian church has been to00:11:56
make the axes of god believe00:12:01
that they are not axes that they are not sons daughters00:12:05
of god for reasons of race for reasons00:12:08
of sex for reasons of orientation00:12:10
sexual that has been a great heresy of00:12:14
the church and then looking a little00:12:18
at a distance the history of the church is00:12:22
that of building it and understanding that they have00:12:26
been extremely oppressive structures00:12:29
not only with the communities of the00:12:31
Betic axis but against black people00:12:34
against the indigenous peoples against00:12:37
women we have to understand that00:12:41
in order to then be able to dislocate the church00:12:45
and propose new communities that from00:12:49
the perspective in which we are churches00:12:51
must be even not arctic00:12:55
where the people go together00:12:58
together to transform these00:13:02
oppressive systems that suffocate us as people We who00:13:05
have been marginalized within00:13:07
ecclesiastical structures have a00:13:09
great task, what is that great task? That00:13:12
great task is to reclaim with our00:13:16
bodies and with our gaze what00:13:19
the experience of divinity is.00:13:20
The invitation is not not part of a00:13:26
reading that others others. They become the god00:13:30
of divinity part of what your00:13:33
body itself tells you and when that body00:13:37
is suffering when this body is00:13:40
crying why do you feel that you are not00:13:44
included in the love of divinity it is00:13:47
because I know it is crying with you at00:13:50
that hour I am crying with you in that00:13:53
hour and I tell you00:13:55
that neither the high nor the low, nor the00:14:00
church nor the government nor any other00:14:04
created thing can be separated from the love00:14:10
that I have for you as a00:14:13
broad divinity as a divinity that has many00:14:15
names because this goes for you who are00:14:18
Christian this goes for you who are00:14:21
Muslim this goes for you who are00:14:23
Buddhist I wanted to see that00:14:26
experience with divinity much00:14:29
bigger it transcends the names we00:14:32
want to give them it transcends the00:14:35
experience where we want to fit it00:14:37
is much greater then the call00:14:40
is to live that greatness with you with your00:14:44
corporality from your skin from your00:14:46
body and to let yourself be enveloped and not00:14:50
allow those other structures do not00:14:53
allow preachers do not allow00:14:56
preacher to take you away from that00:14:59
unconditional love please do not allow us00:15:02
May those voices speak louder than God00:15:07
in you,00:15:09
I speak in you, let me speak to you00:15:14
and as a deaf ear to those other voices.00:15:19
Hello, my name is Alberto Rodrigo because I come00:15:22
from an evangelical Christian background.00:15:26
It happens that at a given moment I had to00:15:28
give up. This at least in the00:15:31
sense of participating within the00:15:33
evangelical church and right now, I do00:15:35
not identify as an00:15:38
evangelical Christian, I identify as a believer,00:15:40
creation of God and obviously I have00:15:43
many roots of the Christian faith, those00:15:45
are the essential ones, but of course at the level of00:15:48
institution because I am not connected with00:15:51
it, the fact of being a Christian and being born00:15:53
in a Christian family environment, I believe00:15:56
that it has influenced me very00:15:59
positively, however, of course,00:16:02
when it comes to coming out of the closet00:16:04
and communicating my sexual orientation,00:16:07
yes, It has influenced me very negatively at the time00:16:09
without blaming the00:16:11
institution because this is how each one00:16:13
takes it, to say it is my00:16:14
responsibility also for how I00:16:17
took it but it is true that the rejection, the00:16:20
abandonment,00:16:22
the lack of respect and perhaps of a00:16:25
love that is shown not as the00:16:28
Bible says, or as the Christian faith says,00:16:30
because that influenced me quite00:16:33
negatively at first, what00:16:36
happened is that later I had a great achievement, which00:16:39
was that my faith survived all that00:16:42
rejection and tried to live a reaction life00:16:45
to spend some time each day when I am00:16:48
walking in a natural organic way I do00:16:50
n't start fasting either let's say00:16:53
something something very special but if that00:16:56
communication with God of talking with him00:16:59
and feeling loved above all in the00:17:03
most difficult moments in the00:17:06
funniest moments in the most00:17:08
routine moments, I think it is important that if00:17:12
there is at least a presence00:17:17
of the LGBT community within00:17:19
institutions, churches, etc., we are going to00:17:22
be optimistic, there is a way to00:17:24
go and sometimes, of course, the00:17:28
doctrinal property of these religions00:17:30
puts up a wall.00:17:32
Totally not in front of a person the gtm and00:17:35
then that is the reason why00:17:37
many people decide to leave00:17:41
there and say that I can't, it's because I'm00:17:43
interested in a church because I'm not00:17:45
very welcome, not in my personal case00:17:48
I I find that sometimes I do00:17:51
miss being able to00:17:53
share my faith as I did, but00:17:58
I discovered that00:18:00
the fact of not being able to go to a church00:18:04
where they point their fingers at me or where00:18:07
the spectator tells me,00:18:08
can you look at the opportunity to00:18:11
develop my spirituality in a00:18:13
much broader way and in circuits00:18:17
or in places or people that I would not have00:18:20
been connected to00:18:23
being inside the church, which in the00:18:24
end can be a led. I am interested in a00:18:27
place where they open the doors and00:18:30
We are all welcome but if there is a filter00:18:32
for me it is the churches. I really00:18:35
do think it is important to know that00:18:38
there is00:18:40
a large sector within the world of00:18:43
people who have faith that they have and who believe00:18:47
in God or who believe in different00:18:49
religions. They can be grouped together, one00:18:52
is not an evangelical Catholic who can do00:18:55
anything, I don't care whether00:18:59
men and women have been so trivialized, especially not so much00:19:02
in the man of law as in a technician who is00:19:03
interested in sex and that's it and00:19:05
promiscuity and etcetera00:19:09
there is nothing wrong with it but00:19:13
we are spiritual there are also people with00:19:16
people with a need but also00:19:19
with a man and with a yes with a00:19:22
will to express that faith00:19:24
and share it so I think it is00:19:27
key00:19:30
hello everyone I am Gema Segovia00:19:33
and I am 42 years old, a woman and a lesbian.00:19:41
I am Anna. I am 59 years old.00:19:46
I am bisexual. You have asked us in some00:19:50
way to also explain what00:19:52
our faith, our belief or our00:19:57
practice is.00:19:58
The truth is that of course I am a Christian and I00:20:02
have been educated within what it is. the branch00:20:04
of Catholicism00:20:07
but I have always had many interests00:20:09
in the ecumenical world, on the one hand in00:20:12
terms of the union of different00:20:14
Christians,00:20:17
I also feel a lot of interest in the00:20:19
branches of Judaism as well as Islam,00:20:23
currently it is not that it is00:20:27
somewhere, no. I have a00:20:29
defined place because it is true that for a00:20:31
long time I have had a parish00:20:33
but right now I do not have a fixed place00:20:38
where I can express my beliefs00:20:40
and my spirituality. Well, I00:20:43
consider myself a Christian after a00:20:45
woman's education.00:20:48
Well, I have had one. very strict00:20:52
in Catholicism,00:20:54
I have belonged to quite00:20:57
extreme organizations, including the Opus Dei,00:21:00
and I am also in contact with Sweet,00:21:03
the Jesuits, and the Dominicans, but in the00:21:06
end, I am Catholic. I do not consider myself00:21:10
Christian and I am smart about00:21:13
other religions.00:21:15
respect and what I believe is that God is00:21:19
nothing more00:21:21
I should say that in my case my00:21:24
belief jls this is more I approached00:21:29
first it always works it must also be00:21:31
said that being a catechist it moved me within00:21:34
youth movements00:21:38
it was on the Camino de Santiago when00:21:41
somehow In this way, you begin to fit together many00:21:43
pieces of your life that were loose or00:21:46
that did not make much sense seen from00:21:48
a heterosexual point of view, but00:21:50
from the point of view00:21:52
of a lesbianism, they begin to fit together one00:21:55
after the other, forming a complete puzzle00:21:57
and full of color00:21:59
and for me the truth is that00:22:02
I felt the welcome first through00:22:06
the word but the00:22:09
hierarchical atmosphere was not what I had00:22:13
expected, it is very rigid, it is more that00:22:16
the theme of women is00:22:19
secondary or the theme I do00:22:23
n't even tell you about lesbianism anymore00:22:26
and for me what00:22:28
hurt me the most was that00:22:31
kind of thing from one day to the next it's00:22:33
not bad anymore you are one00:22:38
in my case because it has been very dramatic I00:22:42
come I00:22:44
thank you very much let's go I'm 59 years old00:22:47
time well what00:22:50
and it existed was a disease00:22:53
[Music] we00:22:54
are all educated in Spain00:22:57
most of us as Catholics and believers for00:23:02
me because it has been00:23:05
how I have00:23:08
never been able to express my LGBT in00:23:14
life and I don't even know because I came to00:23:21
distance myself a lot from the beliefs00:23:23
religious because the hierarchy00:23:26
is so rigid as an old woman and because of00:23:29
the practices that they made you carry and that you00:23:32
had to write down, it has been an00:23:34
experience of concealment, it is true00:23:37
that as a result of the 2000s and such and00:23:40
then when I met Gema de la I knew00:23:43
the religious portfolio the axis for me was00:23:47
something surprising I didn't know that00:23:49
existed00:23:52
and I started to open a little what happens00:23:54
well00:23:55
I have had quite a few swings of faith00:23:59
and thanks to a trip we made to the00:24:01
holy land well to Israel I have returned to00:24:05
recover my faith in Christ and in God and00:24:08
now I am00:24:10
calm with oil00:24:13
for that very reason when in some way we00:24:16
can be asked about how00:24:17
you can develop your spirituality in00:24:20
the end descent in the end babies from the00:24:22
plants that you have had but in the00:24:26
Nowadays you are quite alone,00:24:29
you do not have a community that supports you, you do not00:24:32
have physical contact in which to more00:24:36
or less express yourself or comment on your00:24:37
concerns, so that is00:24:40
why we choose to read the00:24:43
gospel,00:24:44
read other wine books. from the00:24:47
Bible00:24:48
and well, to put it in common00:24:51
with each other and to have our moments00:24:52
of assignment is that it is the only way00:24:55
that can be practiced because00:24:57
at the end of the day, the hierarchy does not accept it,00:25:02
homosexuality has never been accepted and He00:25:05
still does not accept it, no matter how much he says00:25:07
that if permissive, in fact he wanted to win and00:25:10
I cried, who am I to judge what he is00:25:13
taking until you have all heard00:25:16
statements from leaders that I do not00:25:18
want to name now as ecclesiastical leaders00:25:24
and well, then the faith is being lived It's00:25:26
hard because I'm not as optimistic as00:25:29
my wife. It's hard to live there because00:25:31
because it doesn't have any references,00:25:35
you don't have people to share with,00:25:37
but here we go and when you have00:25:41
a belief and you have one faith and three, then00:25:44
you go back and move forward. The00:25:47
lgtb world is good and it has always denigrated00:25:51
believing people a lot, both00:25:55
Christians and any religion, it has00:25:57
always been seen as something strange as00:26:01
something [Music]00:26:02
other than that it did not go with the world00:26:06
and above all that it could not being lesbian00:26:10
or bisexual or transsexual or whatever you were00:26:14
and I couldn't be a Christian I couldn't be00:26:16
Jewish whatever you couldn't practice00:26:18
a religion so in that aspect00:26:21
my experience has been00:26:25
more negative than positive what00:26:28
happened that I later found out The gem is the00:26:30
truth and it helped me a lot to discover or I00:26:34
read very interesting religious books00:26:39
on fpv and I began to00:26:43
document myself that this world,00:26:46
so there is a part of people that has00:26:48
cost a lot because I know I'm00:26:49
talking about the 80s It's been years00:26:51
since nothing00:26:53
that people had to be on the left00:26:55
had to be batted and had and in the world00:26:58
the homosexual fpv that was called at00:27:01
that time well this had no place00:27:06
is more or less linking with00:27:09
those questions that are always usually asked to00:27:12
do the style of00:27:14
how you can be a militant in an00:27:17
lgtb association and at the same time have00:27:20
beliefs, a spiritual practice, no,00:27:24
because sometimes that is what they commented,00:27:26
there has been, I believe, a00:27:29
very great lack of knowledge of what lgtb associations do at a given time.00:27:32
They have00:27:37
been for00:27:39
people with faith and vice versa,00:27:43
why00:27:44
when the study is a little you want00:27:48
to inform yourself that there have been some areas00:27:50
where there would have been hardly any00:27:53
LGBT groups and if there had not been before people00:27:56
with at least they arrived in Spain00:28:00
with some Christian beliefs00:28:02
sufficiently advanced or sufficiently00:28:06
then to bring a somewhat00:28:08
radical gospel that groups could have told us.00:28:11
I know, remembering the groups00:28:13
that some of the groups00:28:14
of Valencia would have been equivalent to, if it had not been for the00:28:16
support that religious communities provided at the time,00:28:19
they would not have00:28:21
having moved forward, I am not going to deny00:28:26
the discourse that has been there on many00:28:28
occasions, it has been so harsh and so00:28:30
negative on the part of the hierarchy00:28:33
that this causes pain, causes rejection and00:28:37
makes many people end up00:28:39
here if you are in that association and we have to00:28:43
go going forward00:28:45
fight for rights00:28:49
many people and that simply lesbian00:28:52
bisexual transsexual you can00:28:57
suddenly eliminate them and disappear00:29:01
of course that you also present yourself as a00:29:03
Christian and believer and even practice00:29:06
at a certain moment because you are00:29:07
within some community it does not fit00:29:10
well and I believe, and this is a small00:29:14
comment00:29:15
within the world,00:29:18
there are still many real people, I do not00:29:20
want to speak negatively, who see this00:29:23
as a strange thing,00:29:26
strange people just like heterosexuals, because they00:29:28
continue to see us a little from a distance and00:29:30
strange people, there are many people inside. of the world00:29:34
that continues to see us as strange does not00:29:37
understand, that is, does not understand that a00:29:39
person can be Christian or can00:29:41
shake being able to be Muslim does not00:29:44
understand that it could be because because00:29:46
this religion because it despises them, well,00:29:49
but there are people, society also despises us,00:29:51
sometimes It affects us as00:29:54
homosexual people and we have to00:29:57
live in it and00:29:59
fight forward. I would like00:30:03
these to be respected much more, not00:30:07
only in groups but on a general level, they are being00:30:10
respected but it is still difficult and I00:30:13
always tell them that, I never say00:30:17
my name. from norberto, if it is true, I am00:30:19
the coordinator of the00:30:21
spirituality section, they decorate the collective of00:30:23
lesbians, gays, transsexuals and bisexuals00:30:25
of the community of Madrid, we are a00:30:29
section that is interreligious, this00:30:31
means that we work with00:30:33
different religions and also with00:30:35
different spiritualities, alternative00:30:38
believe that It is easy to show yourself as a00:30:40
personal gtm in a religious environment00:30:42
within religious institutions or00:30:45
spirituality is diverse there are many00:30:48
people who are in the closet and vice versa00:30:50
I think it is easy to live the faith in an00:30:52
environment of people in more or less easy00:30:55
there a lot of misunderstanding within the same00:30:58
group the gtb group has suffered00:31:01
a lot of discrimination so this00:31:04
garbage that we have received from the environment00:31:07
well we also carry it within the00:31:09
group there is discrimination within00:31:11
the group we have that the lesbian00:31:13
discriminate against the gays you see them00:31:14
discriminate against the transsexuals the00:31:16
transsexuals of crime, that is, the00:31:18
fat ones, those who have a pen, and those who00:31:20
have this, the other one, or if there is a lot of00:31:22
that,00:31:23
I think that the religious and spiritual ones,00:31:25
well, we are also the rarest of the00:31:27
rare ones,00:31:28
something would have to be done within the00:31:31
group itself so that we don't There is this00:31:33
discrimination no longer only towards00:31:34
religious people in the plan, what00:31:37
lesbians have said who discriminate against Reid or00:31:39
the other way around,00:31:44
the objective is common and is to achieve00:31:47
rights for all but you think that we do not00:31:50
do it, that is,00:31:51
we do it and we talk about it.00:31:55
tolerance, non-discrimination,00:31:58
acceptance of the other as they are, but if00:32:02
in the world, in quotes, outside the00:32:04
collective, this is already difficult, imagine00:32:08
within the collective the judgment without00:32:10
prejudice and we carry it, we work,00:32:12
we work on them, much of it has00:32:15
to do with To put it00:32:16
precisely, the group of believers and00:32:20
spiritualists have not worked hard so far on00:32:22
visibility,00:32:24
but on the web they00:32:27
have not fully immersed themselves in the00:32:30
group. We already know that00:32:31
discrimination is fundamentally based on00:32:33
ignorance. They do00:32:34
not know us because they will always create their own ideas.00:32:38
own mental birds00:32:40
then we have to make ourselves known00:32:43
so that they see that we are not strange so00:32:45
that they see that what is extremely00:32:47
compatible without spirituality along00:32:50
with sexual orientation. I have00:32:53
been a cloistered monk and a hermit and00:32:58
before that I actively The 1700:33:00
years that I converted to Catholicism,00:33:02
I worked actively from a Catholic church,00:33:05
so let's say that I never hid my00:33:08
bone orientation because the truth for the sake of the00:33:11
truth will set you free. I00:33:13
entered the monastery then changed00:33:15
orders not because of my orientation but because of00:33:17
a deeper search and I work00:33:19
actively contributing what I do as a00:33:21
person as a believer00:33:27
and I think that obviously there is homophobia00:33:30
every time00:33:34
a bishop appears within Spanish territory00:33:36
speaking and saying some of these things00:33:39
that produce so many real repercussions,00:33:42
what he is doing is segregating a00:33:44
group that has a great presence.00:33:46
of the Catholic Church is like let's say he00:33:49
is throwing stones at his own house00:33:53
/ homophobia of course yes we are going to the00:33:57
community part it is not church it00:34:00
actually means community if we go00:34:04
to the community of believers well of course00:34:06
there are people who are much more open and00:34:09
there are priests who are open but00:34:13
they are also in the00:34:15
closet because they are in favor not because00:34:18
they are the axis in addition to those who are00:34:20
people and they are in the closet but00:34:23
let's say that they are gayfriendly as they say00:34:25
now so Within what is the00:34:28
real community, everyone has a child or00:34:31
knows a case or a neighbor and so on, and00:34:34
as they get to know people00:34:36
and it becomes visible, they understand00:34:37
that sexual orientation or00:34:40
gender orientation and00:34:41
spirituality are not Incompatible,00:34:45
there is also a bit of homophobia more00:34:49
than anything because of the hierarchy, not a00:34:52
hierarchical discourse. Remember that on the00:34:54
Internet we are going to hear many00:34:56
nice things from Duck to Francisco, yes, but that00:34:59
remains in nice words for the press00:35:02
when they meet and have to00:35:04
put together to make a document that00:35:06
word beautiful and welcoming to the00:35:08
group on 7 they are not there00:35:12
if that is not in an official document00:35:15
even if the father says it the hierarchy00:35:17
follows his line00:35:20
so here the hierarchy in Spain is00:35:23
very conservative00:35:25
but extremely conservative and not00:35:28
only because a cultural issue but00:35:30
because a type of theology that they use00:35:32
that is very medieval, the Middle Ages, of a00:35:36
repressive obscurantism, this obviously00:35:40
makes the person who listens to these00:35:43
people start to understand, they say, to00:35:47
mold themselves in that format,00:35:49
so if you fake it, it is a priest who He had00:35:52
everyone at mass every Sunday, he is00:35:54
sending the message that those of us in the FPV00:35:57
are sinners and that this and that and that and00:36:00
that, well when you00:36:01
meet people the only thing you00:36:03
do is project this message00:36:06
because spirituality is deeper00:36:09
that identity the sense of the00:36:11
spiritual need of the human being00:36:14
we always say that it is a00:36:15
right we do not have the spiritual right00:36:18
because it is a search of every00:36:20
human being to find an answer to this00:36:22
existence and a guide of ethical conduct00:36:26
or values for vary, then a00:36:30
religious discourse has a lot of power00:36:33
when I am giving you the00:36:35
power that you have in quotes as00:36:37
the truth because you come and represent in00:36:40
someone whom I love in this case00:36:42
Jesus of Nazareth your word has a lot of00:36:46
very deep meaning00:36:48
for sanz the critical sense there is the00:36:52
disadvantage of homophobia, it is for the00:36:56
people who, let's say, do not belong to the00:36:57
group, the people who belong to the00:37:00
group of lesbians, gays, transsexuals,00:37:02
bisexuals and more and are believers within00:37:04
these institutions, what they create is00:37:07
what is called homophobia internalized00:37:10
they can even live their00:37:12
sexuality but they live it repressed00:37:15
they live it in the closet they live it00:37:17
with self-reproach that is why we00:37:19
work so much with00:37:20
personal growth not with guilt to find00:37:24
people now Catholics say well00:37:27
that homosexuals are00:37:29
accepted as the joy of being celibate,00:37:32
here there are people from the lgtb community00:37:35
who are believers and do it, there00:37:38
is no fault or responsibility or00:37:40
responsibility of these00:37:42
authorities, the responsibility is00:37:43
ours, we give them this power00:37:46
to influence us, so much so that00:37:49
I am totally convinced, I think that of00:37:53
the The only way in which we are going to be able to00:37:55
create a change, create the world in which we00:37:58
want to live that is worth00:38:01
living in, is for us to show ourselves, show ourselves,00:38:05
stop to show precisely what00:38:07
we are a reality00:38:09
and then to claim our place00:38:14
in the world. spiritual whatever the religion00:38:18
we choose00:38:20
and what has mobilized them whether in a00:38:23
religion or in a belief wherever it00:38:26
is is precisely because of working00:38:30
elcogás in the spirituality section they00:38:32
call us from time to time to do an00:38:35
interview well it always has to00:38:37
do with the comments that are done00:38:39
with respect to the world,00:38:41
a way of discriminating by discriminating against00:38:44
LGBT people in the religious sphere00:38:48
and I always think that this is our fault.00:38:51
I think that the fact that we have an00:38:54
active and passive attitude means that00:38:56
we are only summoned or00:38:58
visible when someone It attacks us as00:39:01
if we were victims and in reality00:39:03
we should simply live,00:39:06
shout the message that we want to say00:39:10
but shout it out loud so that00:39:14
those who do not want to receive us00:39:15
in their offices can hear and dialogue with our00:39:18
believing reality and lg00:39:23
I am old of all. life I am an00:39:26
absolutely normal man with 53 years on the00:39:30
road I have had a simple path00:39:34
I reassigned myself when I was 40 years old and00:39:39
well, at the time of my adolescence00:39:41
the transsexuality of science fiction00:39:43
with which00:39:45
nothing existed and I got used to00:39:47
walk alone and alone I continue to help as much as I00:39:51
can but in a00:39:52
particular way, well obviously if there is00:39:54
any association that I00:39:57
consider that the cheese factory asks me for help and00:40:01
I am of course and I am a00:40:04
Roman Apostolic Catholic and a practitioner also00:40:06
I am not00:40:09
with the institution I have I have had mine and even00:40:12
less and if not having it because the00:40:13
institution has not changed in many00:40:15
ways00:40:16
my faith has been unbreakable during00:40:18
my journey because of the faith that00:40:20
life has put my faith has been there00:40:23
is what has taken me through many00:40:25
occasions of very very serious potholes and I already00:40:28
tell you here so many apostolic Catholics00:40:31
that something that people don't understand very much doesn't00:40:34
matter to me I know what I feel what00:40:37
I live and what it is that I believe and what00:40:40
grabbed me and then well they have I have received00:40:43
criticism such as it could be that a guy like00:40:46
you, the way the institution has treated him, can00:40:49
continue if I continue because I believe that there is00:40:52
a part of the institution that is00:40:53
worthwhile and that part of the institution that is not worth it to me and00:40:56
is toxic because of the speaking part and I don't00:40:57
listen to it, you know when I hear that they speak badly00:41:00
or when, well, they put me in, you can00:41:01
imagine, of course, it's anti-call, he put on and00:41:04
drank the clear rebound, the for more,00:41:07
receiving, in addition, in agreement as the00:41:09
headline, they are extremely harmful, what they00:41:12
said, the pope receives a lesbian00:41:25
as such, if the dad,00:41:31
to what extent can one be so short-minded,00:41:34
so uneducated, especially all these people00:41:37
who give it to me, my fassi career, how00:41:40
can one be the uneducated one and say00:41:42
so much nonsense together with the sole00:41:44
objective of hurting a The road hurts me00:41:47
because it is also titled what he00:41:48
did was first I didn't associate it with me and00:41:51
when when it arrives he associates it with me they associated it with me00:41:53
half like a fit of laughter00:41:55
to imagine let's see is that you can00:41:59
call me whatever you want but let's go00:42:02
The term they used is that00:42:04
really, that was laughable,00:42:06
so it was a bit of a reason for me to00:42:08
be very angry, but I get angry like00:42:10
when they can give birth to a00:42:13
friend of mine who hurts a family member. I am00:42:15
very protective of mine, because00:42:17
when I do something about him or I do something about a00:42:19
friend and it hurts me but no no it doesn't affect me00:42:22
at all, it's just that I know they're going to be00:42:23
there if we are the majority they are very00:42:26
good ziad a lot that I started the censors00:42:28
and up to that point there is no coffee in the00:42:29
case I understand that it should be very00:42:32
purple and everything you want but00:42:34
heads sometimes begin to fail00:42:36
and well we will have to put up with the torture00:42:39
that they say from time to time and leave it for00:42:41
like wet paper and a no self00:42:43
So now I pay attention to these movies so much so00:42:45
that if I know that what they want00:42:46
to do harm and they are not going to do it to me, there00:42:48
are two places outside and a00:42:51
recommendation that I make but to00:42:53
everyone who is Catholic and who can00:42:55
give back. Those kinds of things are true in00:42:57
my case my case00:43:00
and mediums Jesus Herrera Velázquez00:43:03
kissed me and I am a Christian00:43:07
and if you ask what church I belong to00:43:09
then none and all of them because Jesus00:43:12
founded the church of his friends the one of the00:43:14
Christians the ones of the baptized I don't00:43:16
churches franchises the truth is that I00:43:19
have made my own let's say my own00:43:22
summary my own understanding00:43:26
that they accuse us00:43:29
and sexual desires00:43:32
that is all00:43:34
if a homosexual again00:43:37
and again whatever he is00:43:40
is a good person who fulfills his00:43:43
obligations and respects the other00:43:45
words of the Pope that is me to00:43:48
get into your life00:43:52
because they get into our life of 900:43:54
meters theirs00:43:56
we have the right to be who we are00:43:58
and just as God has made us, we have00:44:01
not chosen this nor this00:44:04
has touched us a life as born is00:44:06
Spanish or born blonde or born is a woman in00:44:09
doing whatever because this is a way00:44:11
a characteristic of life of the00:44:12
living conditions that the people have00:44:15
with whom you have to live accept00:44:18
but that you have to get closer to you00:44:21
and In fact, it is also accepting the00:44:23
will of God who has made you so and00:44:25
loves you in this way,00:44:28
welcome with che, hello, good afternoon00:44:31
to all, all the publicity that00:44:34
we have made about this event, we have00:44:35
commented that you are a bishop, although00:44:38
he is very militant, he is believer and much00:44:43
more feminist well we are still not00:44:51
understanding it it is not difficult not to stay00:44:54
that a woman can have the vocation00:44:57
of service in the ministry in a00:45:00
more fully way and I have always00:45:04
since I was little since I was little she00:45:06
always has that personal need not00:45:11
that personal need And although it is going to be00:45:13
a time in which I pronounce everything,00:45:17
I produce everything because the lesbian woman said00:45:22
how I am going to do, how I can00:45:27
fulfill that vocation and those desires00:45:31
that I know I felt,00:45:34
I did not manage to give up because God said You are00:45:39
all happy with everything and you are00:45:44
mistreating them and as you put them, they are in my00:45:47
chair, I can't, they can't do it,00:45:49
no, and the truth is that after a00:45:51
long time of reflecting and00:45:55
thinking, I found out and understood that they00:45:58
had the solution and I reached it. which I00:46:02
simply could not believe or00:46:05
could not conform to what the00:46:08
Roman Catholic Apostolic Church00:46:13
with what they said I have to00:46:15
find the way and that age nor my00:46:18
obligation if I wanted to fulfill that00:46:21
need that I had and that That's what00:46:24
I was doing until I found out and00:46:27
found out about churches that could call00:46:29
women to do intercourse with men.00:46:32
Undoubted triple problem, a00:46:34
lesbian woman and a feminist on top of that.00:46:38
I said, here, nothing, here, nothing at my side, the00:46:41
solution they gave me is a lie, nun,00:46:46
or it's that or nothing. yes no00:46:49
because my vocation00:46:55
I say I am going to go as far as I00:46:57
can go and if it is closed but if it00:47:01
is yes it would form by the quotient in goya00:47:03
de realia you continue going as you say and I00:47:05
continue with a continuous with my album00:47:07
my fighting as an entity that although And I00:47:12
did find a00:47:15
church group that ordained women who did00:47:17
n't care that you were from Vienna, the00:47:21
dog, whatever they would be00:47:23
willing to do for the ministries, but I00:47:26
knew that the school didn't have much00:47:29
need like me,00:47:31
and in the end there00:47:39
was an online anthology. I have been quite a bit00:47:43
because I have many things00:47:53
and because you read this Roman source he00:47:57
condemns us for being homosexuals.00:47:59
On Friday I was just as surprised00:48:02
when when I told him that he said that,00:48:06
they called you like that but I have no doubt that00:48:09
they see a better atmosphere00:48:10
with Jeff Proust and Case I will explain to you a00:48:12
little bit and then next year00:48:15
we decided definitively that the group would create00:48:19
the apostolic fraternity of magic it is00:48:21
a religious association and it is00:48:24
registered that people fear someone for00:48:26
everything for all of Andalusia we meet in00:48:29
homes sometimes they are very bad sometimes00:48:31
we are less than the apolo of the coi and 19 we00:48:35
haven't seen them because we haven't been able to00:48:37
because they promise that they could, yes, they could00:48:39
go out but they can't define us but00:48:43
well, tele on the phone answer to people00:48:46
explanations sometimes and no one sent you that's why00:48:48
putting facebook ask00:48:51
action and affiliate there is a different way00:48:54
working in the spiritual sense but00:48:57
it is a way of saying at least like this00:48:59
I do something that we cannot come but at00:49:02
least we continue in contact which00:49:05
really is like the associations00:49:11
with the bishop of educ00:49:17
meaning woman how he shot her by mistake00:49:23
whatever you want and here are a few words00:49:26
to do00:49:30
who said that the sexual hills00:49:35
have relations between the c2 as well as00:49:38
having relations with with dogs like that he said he00:49:40
declared he told us it was a family in the00:49:42
city and well I told him by appointment that he00:49:45
needs me to talk to He and well they didn't00:49:49
answer me and one day to take care00:49:52
first of all from the front and on the trip that I00:49:54
hugged myself and I told him and Kim was my00:49:57
president he00:49:59
told me you don't give me the people that I00:50:05
kissed public how he stays in addressing00:50:08
all his life On May 17, I made 500:50:12
basic designs.00:50:15
Yes, all morning00:50:20
that day we were here in Malaga. We were00:50:23
emotional00:50:34
and then she told me that seeing could not be00:50:37
from a woman. It was auspicious because the00:50:39
Holy Catholic Church told her so. Yes,00:50:44
this element is like zinc. 1400:50:47
I hope. that it is invested that they have00:50:51
language but with me I say and the holy00:50:53
apostolic Catholic mother and it will not be the00:50:57
Roman one because the word catholic is00:51:00
universal and the apostolic word is the00:51:04
apostolic word. Pérez is Roman and I am00:51:07
talking about the Roman apostolic Catholic00:51:11
and then00:51:20
it is like We can solve00:51:24
the days that made me feel like that and how we can00:51:35
solve it, ready for this purpose to00:51:37
solve them00:51:38
in the cathedral of the mass00:51:43
because it is the same day at night00:51:46
but it was when the boys of our00:51:48
treatment and I with my weather shirt00:51:51
almost hot plain00:51:55
put me in the front row with a single00:51:58
objective00:51:59
first to look where to look at who was00:52:02
there fixed commitment and00:52:05
confirmed it said that I had done harm I have00:52:07
done harm and that I fulfilled the apology by00:52:10
making it more appropriate for a00:52:12
representative of God on earth and00:52:14
then I obviously had a hundred sacristy00:52:18
and the rb7 had details of that00:52:21
rectification, not what they allowed00:52:24
because it shows us the yellow is that it is00:52:30
determined absolutely to no one and00:52:31
projective of the gender nor for anything for00:52:34
nothing00:52:37
hello Joaquín García I am a00:52:40
Protestant Christian I belong to00:52:42
the Church of Jesus which is a community00:52:45
in the latina of the00:52:46
Spanish factory which is a historic Protestant church00:52:50
of reformed tradition00:52:53
I have been there since I was little since I was00:52:56
born my father who was already a pastor of00:52:58
that church and well a fourth00:53:02
generation of Protestants in my family00:53:04
and always being integrated baptized me from00:53:07
there it was confirmed and is where it00:53:10
developed in my virtuality with my00:53:12
ecclesial life my beliefs have developed00:53:14
the development as a person I am a person00:53:17
in who sees you and my00:53:20
fundamental beliefs for how you approach00:53:24
life how you approach your relationship with00:53:27
others how you focus your actions which is00:53:30
basic is something that is in my DNA it has to00:53:34
be in your DNA it is the way in00:53:36
which you believe you have to work00:53:39
you have to follow an example and you have to00:53:42
demonstrate it and preach with the00:53:46
gospel it00:53:47
is The only way then as an00:53:50
influenced person the same as a person has00:53:54
information00:53:56
how you face the life you do in00:53:59
life and how you relate to others00:54:01
and with respect for others00:54:03
you can look I have a dual position on the00:54:07
one hand it makes me very angry00:54:09
And on the other hand, I am00:54:12
very lazy, not the anti-00:54:17
FPV stance that implies, well, it would be nothing00:54:19
more than a stance, and what a good thing you00:54:22
can say, you can talk, and it is a00:54:23
matter of education and training, what00:54:27
annoys me is the lack of I respect00:54:31
the respect that religious sectors show00:54:33
towards00:54:37
the LGBT community00:54:39
and then, since I do not understand in the case00:54:43
of Christianity that a Christian church has, it00:54:48
admits putting people on00:54:52
different levels and respecting each00:54:55
other, but for me it is incomprehensible00:54:58
because I just didn't I can understand it if it does not00:55:01
pay00:55:04
the lack of respect00:55:07
and the lack of Christian spirit to00:55:10
accept the universe that not only happens00:55:14
with its objective but what happens to the00:55:16
objectives and on the other hand it is very00:55:18
clear what my path is and where to00:55:21
go and he protested00:55:24
and made my protest clear but I think we00:55:32
should not give them more hype because it is a00:55:36
game in which I do not enter. Thank you00:55:40
very much. Thank you for this00:55:43
invitation. Thank you for this space of00:55:45
visibility. I believe that this is00:55:48
important among the many struggles and00:55:50
demands. that we as people have,00:55:52
I believe that spirituality is one of the00:55:55
very important dimensions in the life00:55:58
of the human being, in the life also of00:56:00
these ecumenical believing communities,00:56:04
as you said at the beginning, that we00:56:05
come together to affect, well, I am Niurka,00:56:08
I am a trans woman, I am a00:56:11
transsexual woman for some people00:56:14
I am a theologian by profession I am an activist00:56:16
I am a fighter for human rights00:56:19
I spent many years as coordinator in00:56:22
Cobán of the trans colgan group00:56:24
currently I continue to participate in the00:56:26
group I am also linked to the faith00:56:29
and spirituality group of the LV and I participated in00:56:33
the pl of tve as part of the00:56:35
executive community and also now I am very00:56:38
involved and motivated with a topic that is a00:56:40
state job insertion program00:56:43
for trans people and that00:56:44
and trans well, I don't know what else to say, I00:56:47
am participating in the group of00:56:49
church women women of the00:56:53
women's revolt in the church that I00:56:55
believe is also an00:56:56
important space for all people to00:56:58
be heard so that our00:57:01
voices can also change00:57:04
these structures sometimes not where where00:57:07
women are like more00:57:09
more relegated civilized indie we could say and I believe00:57:12
that women's voices are heard is00:57:14
very important in these spaces. I am00:57:17
a Catholic Christian woman, I am a00:57:22
lifelong believer and I am open00:57:27
to respect and the diversity of00:57:30
ecumenical dialogue, also open to inter-00:57:32
religiosity and also open to being able to00:57:35
listen to the experiences of many00:57:37
other people who live their00:57:39
spirituality00:57:41
from different contexts, experiences,00:57:44
religions, spaces00:57:46
or groups for reflection and meditation,00:57:48
also for me the best reference in00:57:52
all this is this Jesus, it is not this Jesus, that00:57:55
is goodness, it is love is external,00:57:59
it is good and that is also from Jesus,00:58:02
it dignifies the human being, it00:58:05
dignifies the woman, no, then I00:58:08
cannot think of myself without this experience of00:58:11
God, I cannot think of myself that a god does not00:58:16
recognize me, he does not welcome me like this mother does00:58:19
not. This image of the mother god who welcomes00:58:21
and cares and I believe that this is the00:58:24
image of the god that must be transmitted00:58:26
and that is the god that I believe in. I do not00:58:29
believe in this Jesus who is also a00:58:32
breaker of oppressive structures for00:58:35
the being. human that dignifies the woman00:58:38
that includes everyone at the00:58:40
shared table that announces those00:58:42
beatitudes and that good news00:58:45
happy all those people who00:58:48
suffer in a way or are00:58:50
discriminated against or marginalized I believe that00:58:53
that is the Jesus of the gospel00:58:55
that is the Jesus that we have to talk about00:58:57
and maybe not not anchor ourselves sometimes in these00:59:01
types of structures in which I believe that00:59:04
LGBTI people have suffered a lot,00:59:08
many people on eye TV and have00:59:11
felt rejected, they have felt00:59:13
unrecognized, they have felt like with this00:59:17
soul to say well well, poor thing,00:59:20
poor thing, we can accept you here, no,00:59:24
no, it's not that I don't want this, this hug, or00:59:26
this one, she's calm with compassion. I think that00:59:29
lgtb plus people, trans women00:59:34
and women in general, I think that00:59:36
nowadays we're getting louder.00:59:38
I think the church is empowering us and I think we00:59:42
are showing by demonstrating and00:59:44
shouting that we want to be a subject, a00:59:47
subject who has a voice. We want to be00:59:49
people who have the same00:59:51
dignity as any other member00:59:53
within the church. I think they are00:59:56
difficult sometimes. the changes I00:59:59
also hope that many changes01:00:01
have been achieved01:00:02
by the revolts because we have01:00:05
rebelled against certain systems and01:00:08
speaking of the church that is a01:00:09
theologian by profession, you have felt01:00:12
discriminated against in your spiritual development01:00:14
and in your theological studies for being a woman01:00:17
and transgender,01:00:20
I believe that all of us who01:00:23
have departed from the norms at some01:00:26
point have been prey to these01:00:28
situations of lg must cobián or01:00:32
bullying, no, so it01:00:36
would be naive to say that I have not been01:00:38
prey to this situation and I don't think that01:00:40
throughout all my information is01:00:43
eivissa has been seen as a 10 so to01:00:46
speak for performance etcetera01:00:49
but they never gave me a 10 because because there01:00:52
was always a question of saying01:00:54
no because a 10 was like recognizing and01:00:57
accepting01:00:59
and your identity then I I think that01:01:02
this is a constant. In fact, I think that at01:01:06
the moment it is01:01:09
a great challenge for me to say I wish I would have to01:01:11
be working and producing and01:01:15
giving all this that I have learned all01:01:17
my knowledge in these01:01:18
religious or educational spaces or etc. in01:01:24
the which I believe is01:01:26
still being alleged against me so I do not lose01:01:29
hope because I am always saying I01:01:32
would love to teach I would love to01:01:34
work I would love to be there where01:01:36
I believe that I am a business I believe that I01:01:39
can be useful01:01:41
I believe that in the church01:01:44
if we speak from a let's say a01:01:48
more01:01:51
informal hierarchical look, I believe that01:01:53
LGBT people are01:01:55
still not completely affected, it01:01:58
seems that we are accepted as I said01:02:01
before, not from a more compassionate view01:02:03
of saying come on, I support you, God01:02:05
loves you and is still there, but there are things that01:02:09
You should not do, there are things you should not do etc01:02:11
etc so for me it is this while01:02:15
these texts this catechism the01:02:18
penal code and so many things that it has within01:02:20
the church if these things do not change01:02:22
again I will come back we do not exist so01:02:25
we are with this I think that There are many01:02:28
people in the church who live01:02:30
with this weight and this burden of being the way01:02:34
they are and unfortunately they have received that01:02:37
negative message that you are like a01:02:41
negative thing like a sin01:02:44
for being the way you are. You know how painful01:02:47
that is. I was once01:02:50
visiting many trans women,01:02:52
sex workers, many migrants and01:02:55
many believers. This is01:02:57
what they were doing, it was01:02:59
like guilt, they crossed themselves01:03:02
and they believed that they were totally in01:03:05
sin because God was not going to forgive them01:03:07
for being the way they were and for me That's super01:03:09
painful, so who sent you01:03:12
this message, who told you that God does01:03:14
n't love you until you do this whole01:03:17
process of deconstruction, I think you don't01:03:20
get up and I think that that has been a01:03:23
very great, very positive experience and my01:03:26
life day that I felt these words01:03:28
that I said at the beginning01:03:31
that God loves me I am a response of01:03:34
love for me that day was one of the01:03:36
greatest days because I would shout that day to01:03:39
open my arms to freedom and I said01:03:42
with all my strength I am a woman that01:03:46
God loves me to a point and I think that's01:03:49
when you get up01:03:51
when you start walking I always say it01:03:54
seems like you live this experience of01:03:56
disappointment like the others who leave01:03:59
the community because that god or that01:04:02
Jesus that they were waiting was not01:04:05
like what they had imagined, so01:04:07
I think that suddenly when you open your eyes01:04:10
and recognize01:04:12
that it was with you, it is the same one from01:04:15
your entire life that has not abandoned you01:04:19
despite the external situation that you have been01:04:21
able to experience, that is when I I think that01:04:24
you return to the community never half of the01:04:26
community I have always been there01:04:29
I have always defended and I think that now with more01:04:31
reason with these with this training and with01:04:34
theological foundations I think that for me01:04:37
that is very important because I believe that the01:04:40
weakness that many people lgtb01:04:44
we have lived within the church of01:04:46
churches is that sometimes there has been a01:04:49
third or a higher voice like saying the01:04:54
authority and that of the word of God01:04:57
to tell you if you are or if you are not if01:05:00
you are right or wrong correct01:05:02
if you are on the path of good or the01:05:04
path of evil when you empower you01:05:07
when I have had this opportunity to01:05:09
study, train and know01:05:11
law there are things that are false01:05:15
I cannot understand myself without a god who does not01:05:17
love me and outside then I I think that's01:05:19
important. I think that that has01:05:21
allowed me to stay where I am and to make01:05:26
myself visible without any fear, without01:05:29
any shame, and I always say,01:05:30
proud believer, that's because I01:05:33
say it in all the spaces in which I01:05:35
move, even though there are many people. maybe it01:05:37
will surprise you and I think that is what01:05:40
I live because I think that in my heart I01:05:43
cannot feel I cannot conceive myself without01:05:46
this god who loves me01:05:49
help01:05:50
[Music]01:06:02
sala malecón hernán welcome to the01:06:06
consell am peace be with you with you01:06:09
be the paz hernán tell us a little01:06:12
about yourself01:06:13
[Music]01:06:17
I am of Syrian descent my grandfather was01:06:20
Syrian I was born in 'la gente' and I01:06:25
have been living in Madrid for 5 years in the center of three01:06:29
months before 19 years in Barcelona by the01:06:34
way I am from Cordoba Argentina and01:06:37
I had a six-month journey of01:06:39
living in Egypt in Cairo and now01:06:42
I am here landing in Madrid very01:06:45
happy and very content surrounding me there01:06:48
were always people like you we can01:06:50
form Alejandro and the House of God to01:06:54
articulate Islam it has been since 2007 He01:06:58
is the convert even though01:07:02
my ancestors are Muslims but a01:07:04
branch of living a family that01:07:06
left Argentina converted to01:07:09
Catholicism and my parents and my grandparents01:07:13
became Catholics and well I went to01:07:18
much of my life until the point01:07:21
that I was a student to become a priest and I01:07:25
practiced Catholicism for many01:07:27
years because of things in life I lost the faith01:07:30
but I did not lose they have learned but01:07:33
losses that people that is why I01:07:35
distanced myself from all religious issues and01:07:38
all the beliefs that I could have My01:07:40
reach01:07:41
was in a few years lost with01:07:44
Gnosticism very badly and one day I01:07:49
started to find out the origins of my01:07:50
last name the only news I had was01:07:54
that a last name was of Arab descent and there01:07:58
everything began to fall like a house of01:08:01
cards baby what less to go I found out01:08:04
that we have an Alzira family that is01:08:08
the sacred surname of Islam because01:08:11
they come between the time of the prophet01:08:13
Abraham that there is a well of holy water left,01:08:16
this is what all Muslims can do01:08:19
when they are in action in Mecca in the01:08:21
month of the pages they carry Jaén It is water01:08:24
for when before when you are going to die01:08:27
so that you die that water that is a01:08:30
scientifically proven miraculous voice01:08:34
where you with all your story that01:08:36
showed me as it completely turned me on the01:08:39
floor and one year I decided to01:08:43
travel to Istanbul and the first thing I What01:08:45
caught my attention was that the others01:08:48
called him. It caught their attention when01:08:50
they showed us the passport in the lost01:08:53
virus it had and one day the man will enter, he01:08:57
must enter the blue mosque of Istanbul and I01:09:00
always tell that between layers a believer appeared01:09:04
and that's where my story begins. With Islam01:09:07
I returned to Spain and I was more determined than01:09:11
ever to be a Muslim and I began to look for01:09:15
Muslims and people who would help me and01:09:18
will look and it was not easy because01:09:21
Islam is not like that,01:09:26
it is very difficult and a good part of the01:09:33
Muslims that we have in Spain today01:09:36
has two paths, one is to deny01:09:41
spirituality, faith, the dim, he has that01:09:44
path and live a full sexuality and the01:09:47
other is to deny sexuality and live a01:09:51
life of religiosity completely.01:09:54
It is very difficult for them how to combine the two01:09:58
lives so that be it a single one, they cannot01:10:01
understand in any possible way01:10:05
that this sexual 30 Muslim or homosexual Muslim01:10:12
created a very big internal conflict in them01:10:15
and that is attracted to the upbringing they01:10:18
had since childhood and to all01:10:21
drawing artists are the sayings and01:10:24
the facts that our prophet lived that01:10:26
were invented throughout the history01:10:28
of this in the entire history of Islam, it is01:10:33
very difficult for me to add people to the01:10:35
association because01:10:38
they do not want to know anything at all, neither01:10:40
with praying nor with doing Ramadan, he indicated the01:10:45
sidewalk. in the night of destiny nor with01:10:48
any of the religious practices that01:10:50
are imposed in religion believe is01:10:54
believed there is a saying that takes me out of the01:10:57
galley of this that he who has known01:11:00
the truth will never be able to deny ours it is01:11:03
not hard to tell you01:11:05
today I am Today I am a Muslim and tomorrow I am an01:11:09
atheist, the name cannot count because01:11:12
this person who has believed in God01:11:15
can never be an atheist, at least01:11:18
Islam01:11:20
in my name is Alejandro,01:11:22
very Christian,01:11:24
my origins are Catholic, but01:11:28
throughout my life path My01:11:31
spiritual path of faith01:11:34
evolves into more than one position in01:11:38
the reformed churches, that is, protest.01:11:40
I carry out01:11:43
my pastoral work as a law pastor01:11:46
of the metropolitan community01:11:49
in a church that is01:11:51
also inclusive of the LGBT community01:11:54
in conjunction with a member of the01:11:58
Spanish evangelical church, which is the01:12:00
historical Spanish Protestant denomination01:12:04
that is also inclusive of the01:12:07
LGBT community becomes one01:12:10
because I live it with01:12:13
sadness01:12:15
and pain but at the same time I also live it01:12:21
with the hope that a01:12:23
time will come when these people finally01:12:27
realize the damage What are you doing01:12:30
and what are we dealing with?01:12:34
People have feelings01:12:38
and no harm is being done to all these01:12:41
wounded people and all these01:12:45
religious people. I would tell them to convert01:12:48
to the gospel. I would01:12:52
like to say that my name is Ronald de Ángel.01:12:55
I am a graphic and web designer. I have I01:12:58
am 30 years old, I am from Colombia, I currently reside01:13:01
in Mexico and I am good at my work with01:13:05
different organizations to address the01:13:08
issue of inclusion in01:13:11
spiritual areas and personal development. I have01:13:14
participated in organizations such as01:13:17
Reconcilarte Kinchil Colombia and all01:13:21
this has allowed me to create a project01:13:23
called diverse believers that Julian01:13:25
well I am from your cover and I have 3301:13:29
years of production well I am an01:13:33
engineer you are information as a01:13:35
systems and communications engineer01:13:36
but Christie's the state in Félix is what01:13:39
I exercise as such01:13:41
and well regardless of this01:13:44
I am also a leader of an01:13:47
inclusive congregation in Mexico City01:13:49
called Familia Gras that is diverse, an01:13:51
inclusive Christ-centered congregation01:13:54
for two, the LGBT community01:13:58
and our families where we know that01:14:01
God loves us and accepts us regardless of01:14:04
gender, orientation that, honestly, I01:14:09
had previously decided to stay away from01:14:12
churches because Well, it didn't seem like a01:14:14
safe place where I could be and01:14:17
not be judged, so I think that's what01:14:20
happened. There are many people who01:14:22
have distanced themselves from their01:14:24
church congregations because of all the rejection, all the01:14:27
discrimination, but what they suddenly don't01:14:30
know is that There may be01:14:33
places where, if they are welcome, where they are01:14:35
not judged, they are loved, they are01:14:39
accepted and well, they are welcome. Yes, being01:14:43
here as a family, different grace, God has01:14:45
healed my heart in that one, in this one,01:14:48
but the churches were something bad, it was01:14:51
something negative. It was something where they did not01:14:52
accept me because that is now behind us,01:14:55
that is what I wanted to share and also01:14:58
invite people to suddenly,01:15:01
if they have had bad experiences in01:15:02
some congregations, the first thing is for them to01:15:05
think that God is the god that is not there for them.01:15:08
rejecting, it is men who01:15:11
judge and reject giving themselves the01:15:14
opportunity to search. There are places where01:15:16
they are welcome, whether if they wish to01:15:19
participate in support groups, as I have already01:15:21
mentioned, or also in01:15:23
inclusive churches. Yes, they would know01:15:26
the name. They will endure. Soil is01:15:28
proudly visible. The truth is that01:15:33
the believer is a very believing believer.01:15:36
Well,01:15:38
I'm Catholic. I say it for what reason01:15:41
because, well, it was something that was generated01:15:45
in my family. My family is01:15:47
Catholic. No, obviously I think that for me01:15:50
all religions are valid.01:15:53
Not because I believe that. Well, when Jesus01:15:56
He was here for the passage of the passage in01:15:59
our world he never said well you01:16:03
are going to be a Christian you are going to be a01:16:04
Muslim you are going to be a Buddha you are not01:16:07
in religion I believe that the01:16:10
man was then well for me I believe that01:16:13
all Religions are valid. I am01:16:15
Catholic because I was born in a01:16:17
Catholic family and for something very special,01:16:20
I also love a lot in the Virgin.01:16:22
For me, I believe that the Virgin01:16:26
is the being who intercedes for01:16:30
us. I do not believe that she was the person who01:16:34
accelerated the events. times of Jesus and I believe that01:16:36
whenever we ask for intercession for her, she was01:16:40
resurrected and granted us favors,01:16:43
so for me, that is why I lean more01:16:47
towards the Catholic religion for this01:16:49
reason and I felt like an impure sinner. I01:16:55
didn't go to confession again, I didn't take01:16:58
communion again, I felt like I wasn't worthy01:17:01
until one day I said, well, I01:17:05
fell in love with someone and well, I loved that01:17:08
person and he leads a healthy life,01:17:10
so well, let's confess, let's see who is01:17:13
the father and well. If we are going to burn in01:17:15
hell or not, well, let's go and make the01:17:19
decision, take momentum and I'm going to01:17:21
confess01:17:22
and I said, well, the truth is that I started with01:17:25
my smallest sins that I felt01:17:27
when I said, well, the truth is that I don't01:17:30
know how to tell him. But I01:17:33
like women,01:17:35
father, I don't know if he's being01:17:38
bad, I don't know if I'm going to be condemned, I don't know what's01:17:42
going to happen to my life at dinner,01:17:44
so he told me, it's okay, nothing's wrong, he told me,01:17:48
feel free. What hurts someone?01:17:52
You led a friend to a promiscuous life,01:17:56
I said no, father. The truth is, I01:17:58
feel that I love that person. Well,01:18:00
the truth is, my son, I already know that01:18:03
before in01:18:05
the eyes of the world, he is not well01:18:07
regarded. but not all of us are welcome in01:18:10
the line of the Lord in the middle so he01:18:12
told me look01:18:15
I'm just going to tell her that well I01:18:19
can't tell her01:18:22
what something bad is because I can't01:18:24
visit her because God judges us I01:18:27
can't tell her what is something good because01:18:28
Well, maybe I can't give a blessing01:18:32
on the subject, but I only ask that he didn't see01:18:37
a promiscuous life, he doesn't give me a01:18:40
life01:18:42
of debauchery and you can concentrate and01:18:46
if it is a pure and true love, then01:18:49
I give him absolution and he replaced my01:18:52
penance and then I, whether they are guys,01:18:54
calm down, I don't judge myself, I thought they would01:18:58
judge me because I was a priest of a01:18:59
church,01:19:01
I was a little bit like serious, like I didn't01:19:04
have confidence with the stereo, well,01:19:06
but you don't believe in yourself, it gave me01:19:10
peace of mind, the truth is, there I already I said01:19:13
well, the church does not reject me,01:19:17
my mother and my family reject me,01:19:20
so I go forward and against01:19:24
the world because maybe if someone rejects me, I do01:19:25
n't care. I go with my own thing and01:19:27
as long as I do my thing, everything will be01:19:29
fine, I believe. I don't feel01:19:31
discriminated against, the truth is,01:19:33
when people talk and01:19:36
discriminate against us, I just say, my God,01:19:40
forgive them because they don't know what they're doing01:19:42
for01:19:50
[Music]01:19:58
[Applause]01:19:59
[Music]01:20:06
i [Music01:20:08
]01:20:18
[Music]01:20:33
[Music]01:20:39
[Music]Description:
Sección Espiritualidad Cogam: Comunícate con nosotrxs: correo electrónico [email protected] Nuestra web: https://cogam.es/espiritualidad/ Con ocasión del Día Internacional de Lucha contra la LGTBfobia 2021 presentamos “LGTBFOBIA y Espiritualidad”: Testimonios y Vivencias de Creyentes y Espirituales LGTB+.
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