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00:00:00

interview with a German veteran I was born on August 24,

00:00:05

1922 in Bavaria My mother was a nanny

00:00:09

And my father was a photographer And when you went to

00:00:13

war And how in 1940 I was drafted into the

00:00:17

Labor Agency, it was such an

00:00:20

organization related to the Wehrmacht Such a

00:00:23

semi-water straight from there I ended up in the

00:00:25

Wehrmacht And in I ended up in Russia from the first

00:00:28

year no

00:00:30

in Kursk in between Kursk and Orel somewhere

00:00:33

there then in Vitebsk my unit It was a forty-

00:00:37

first position observation

00:00:39

battalion it was a sound measuring

00:00:42

battery artillery reconnaissance I was a

00:00:45

senior corporal who had undergone special

00:00:48

training on the topic of various

00:00:50

sound measurements you won’t understand anything about this anyway

00:00:52

And yet what your tasks were, it’s

00:00:56

hard to explain figuratively speaking, it’s like I

00:00:59

was making a movie, but on paper it’s good, I

00:01:02

’ll try to tell you when the Russians

00:01:04

fired from the cannons, a boom sound was heard,

00:01:07

we recorded this sound using the

00:01:09

microphones that were standing at a

00:01:12

certain distance from each other I

00:01:14

will draw it for you so that you can understand there is

00:01:17

a shot here and here and here there are

00:01:20

microphones now the sound comes at a speed of

00:01:24

333.3 m per second here it comes first

00:01:28

then here then here then there the

00:01:31

sound of a shot and there is the sound of a projectile from

00:01:34

several points we filmed this difference in sound,

00:01:37

measured the film and

00:01:39

transferred it to the map. So we could accurately

00:01:42

determine where the shot came from, this was

00:01:45

our task. Where were you sent after being

00:01:48

drafted in 1940 to Ulm?

00:01:52

I was trained there. I went from there to Russia,

00:01:55

don’t ask. me when exactly I

00:01:58

don’t remember this anymore And the law for me was the war in

00:02:01

Vitebsk, where the Russians closed the cauldron I

00:02:04

became a

00:02:05

prisoner of war in the war, a lot depended on the weather.

00:02:08

What time of year

00:02:10

was it most difficult to fight in the winter against the cold,

00:02:14

we were forced to simply move very actively

00:02:16

because there was very poor

00:02:19

equipment, we had ordinary

00:02:21

boots without lining in an attempt to

00:02:23

keep warm, we stuffed

00:02:26

paper and even straw into them, many say that the

00:02:29

mud in the spring and autumn was a big

00:02:31

problem, but for me personally it was not

00:02:34

such a problem, I served in the technical unit, we

00:02:37

were quite far from

00:02:39

We found ourselves on the front line at the forefront only

00:02:42

when some kind of

00:02:43

emergency happened when the advanced

00:02:46

units left and there was no other replacement for

00:02:49

you then they were used as Infantrymen Yes,

00:02:53

but only in emergency situations and

00:02:55

even then it was very pointless

00:02:58

Because everyone else is already just

00:03:00

it wasn’t It was a very difficult time What

00:03:03

was the worst thing you

00:03:05

experienced in the war If there was an emergency

00:03:09

If the matter was hopeless We

00:03:12

all remained in our positions and

00:03:14

had to continue as before

00:03:16

Listen carefully to the front because

00:03:19

only we knew where the guns were Russians

00:03:21

But one day we were brought into battle as this

00:03:24

is called a unit with the highest readiness, an

00:03:27

alarming unit we were brought into precisely

00:03:30

in this capacity, completely

00:03:32

unusual for us, we were faced with the

00:03:35

Isovskoy, we had to replace it,

00:03:38

very young Soldiers served in it and they

00:03:41

were completely demoralized

00:03:44

there in the mud it It was Autumn, it was

00:03:48

very cold and wet and so they

00:03:50

retreated back and they moved us forward to

00:03:53

their place, you have to

00:03:56

imagine it like this, there was a Valley and the Russians

00:03:58

were Nano and we were on the other. We

00:04:02

looked at each other but didn’t shoot

00:04:04

because it was too far away we

00:04:06

only had carbines. Well, even further away

00:04:09

there were a couple of guns, and then somehow

00:04:12

our Yu-87 picks arrived and like

00:04:16

crazy they started bombing the Russians. On the

00:04:18

other side of the valley. After that we

00:04:20

went on the attack, crossed to the other side and the

00:04:23

Russians began to climb the slope.

00:04:25

of course they were shooting at us, but when we

00:04:28

got up there, none of them

00:04:30

were there anymore, we started to dig in and dug in, and at

00:04:34

night Russian tanks came, we

00:04:36

only had carbines, what could we do? We jumped

00:04:39

out of the trenches and ran back,

00:04:42

everyone relied only on themselves, there were only a

00:04:45

few of us perhaps a person 80 Yes,

00:04:48

Russian tanks came and we retreated, it was dark, it had

00:04:52

just begun to blossom, we rushed like

00:04:54

hares into loose soil. I was running alone when I

00:04:57

heard a crunching sound underneath me and fell into a hole in the

00:05:00

field. It turned out that the Russian

00:05:03

civilian population had dug out

00:05:05

a cache right in the field to hide theirs there.

00:05:08

food so that no one would take it away, I

00:05:11

fell into this hole and shrank all over, after a

00:05:14

while I looked out and

00:05:17

suddenly saw two Russian

00:05:19

tanks nearby, I thought oh God, what’s going to happen now,

00:05:23

but then our artillery started shooting at these tanks,

00:05:25

it never hit them didn’t

00:05:28

hit, but the shells exploded here and

00:05:31

there and they retreated. And I got out of the pit

00:05:34

and ran back. You ate something from the food in this Pit,

00:05:37

no, it was a very

00:05:40

bad time for eating, did you have

00:05:43

the feeling that the war would end well for you,

00:05:46

no We knew for sure that it

00:05:49

would end badly, but what should we do? We

00:05:52

were a grain of sand as cogs in this war,

00:05:55

now it’s so easy to say, but if

00:05:58

then someone would have said

00:06:00

he would have been shot for cowardice or

00:06:02

sent to a penal company and Although I don’t

00:06:05

know anyone who was would be in such a company, but

00:06:08

we knew that they were there and that they had

00:06:11

cleared the mines; wounded, no. What were

00:06:15

your relations with the civilian Soviet

00:06:17

population? We didn’t have many contacts

00:06:20

when we arrived somewhere; the villages

00:06:23

were already devastated; we were part

00:06:25

of a positional war, that

00:06:28

is, for madder of war, but we had

00:06:32

Russian Khivi who served with us. The soldiers were mostly

00:06:35

elderly. They seemed old to us because

00:06:38

we ourselves were young now, I think they

00:06:41

were between 4-50 years old. They looked after

00:06:45

horses and were usually quite skillful

00:06:48

men; they often repaired some

00:06:50

things. How many of them did you have, we had

00:06:54

one, but the battalion also consisted of a

00:06:57

radio measuring battery, then the measuring

00:07:00

battery they did the same thing as we did,

00:07:03

but for this they measured the air and flashes from

00:07:06

gun explosions, there was also a meteorological

00:07:09

platoon that also provided data for

00:07:12

artillery, so they probably had we had our own

00:07:15

Khiwis, they often say that Khiwis worked in the

00:07:18

kitchen in the kitchen there were mostly girls,

00:07:22

we didn’t have Khiwis in the kitchen, what

00:07:24

awards did you have, the Iron Cross, second class, what did you

00:07:28

receive? Yes, I don’t know myself.

00:07:32

Can you remember what you fought for your

00:07:34

Motherland for? family for the Fuhrer for comrades

00:07:38

no If I fought at all

00:07:41

I never say this word to myself I just wanted to

00:07:44

Survive and return home nothing more than

00:07:47

that the war was stupidity it was

00:07:49

always clear to me for this I just

00:07:52

had to look at the map We were in

00:07:54

Russia we were in France we were in

00:07:57

Italy We were in Africa we were in the

00:07:59

Balkans it couldn’t end well

00:08:02

It was clear to us Right away But we

00:08:05

couldn’t do anything about it At the latest

00:08:08

after Stalingrad everyone knew this the

00:08:10

morale of the German army changed

00:08:13

after Stalingrad in our unit no

00:08:16

As far as I remember now, we didn’t talk about it, the

00:08:18

question was how it could be

00:08:21

finished, that’s what we asked ourselves,

00:08:24

but we couldn’t do anything against it,

00:08:27

we just wanted to survive,

00:08:29

you said at the front, Russian veterans

00:08:32

remember that they often dreamed about

00:08:35

what would happen after the war and who they will be We

00:08:38

also talked about this we were young we

00:08:40

wanted to live we wanted to achieve something

00:08:44

I had a profession but many of my

00:08:46

comrades were still schoolchildren They had

00:08:49

just received the right to enter the

00:08:51

university or did not even have time to

00:08:53

get it who were you profession as a

00:08:56

photographer But it was

00:09:00

some kind of big deal What can you

00:09:02

say about Russian aviation it was

00:09:05

dangerous I only met Russian aviation

00:09:08

in the cauldron in its very last days

00:09:11

before that I had never seen it at all only

00:09:14

at night it used to fly like this we called

00:09:16

it a coffee grinder she appeared in the darkness and

00:09:20

if she saw something below, she threw a bomb.

00:09:23

But this was a great danger, but when

00:09:27

yours closed the cauldron, they had combat

00:09:30

aircraft and they bombed us, and Stalin’s

00:09:33

argan and Stalin’s organ were also our

00:09:37

clients, we were responsible for identifying him too

00:09:40

but they found him very poorly

00:09:43

because he moved, shot and immediately

00:09:46

left. Did the Russians have such weapons

00:09:49

that were also difficult to find? Yes, there are

00:09:52

guns. But there are howitzers, I don’t know. Do you

00:09:56

understand or not the gun fires and the Gobi,

00:10:00

so the gun that shoots has

00:10:03

the sound of a shot? and the sound of a shell, the sound of a

00:10:06

shell appears on the road like thunder, and

00:10:09

we had a recording of the sound of a shot and the sound of a

00:10:12

shell, and it was necessary to distinguish them; it

00:10:16

could not be easy if they were firing from

00:10:18

several guns. What personal

00:10:21

weapon did you use? Did you use it with a caraby and a bayonet?

00:10:25

I only opened cans I see, the Germans

00:10:29

took prisoners once when we were traveling to

00:10:32

Russia on a train there was a train standing there and we

00:10:35

found ourselves next to them, these were freight

00:10:38

cars, they had straw thrown in them and the

00:10:41

wounded were lying on it, they all had bandages,

00:10:45

these were Russian prisoners still there

00:10:48

civilian women were standing and talking to them

00:10:49

And the German Soldiers were standing

00:10:52

nearby and they were taken away, but they couldn’t have escaped the Armed Forces

00:10:55

anyway, they were wounded And

00:10:58

your units

00:10:59

weren’t there, no, they couldn’t have been We

00:11:03

were part of a positional war, we didn’t

00:11:06

attack, we didn’t even We were

00:11:08

properly armed and

00:11:29

Stu army subordination always

00:11:32

betrayed us to someone And we all interacted with someone

00:11:35

and did not try to fight

00:11:37

as a separate combat unit We

00:11:40

knew exactly where the Russian guns were and If

00:11:43

we had guns and ammunition we

00:11:46

could go there We also always

00:11:48

knew exactly when we would attack. And

00:11:50

when we had to run away,

00:11:53

imagine this, the map shows, there

00:11:56

were red crosses everywhere, where the

00:11:59

Russian guns were, and it was all

00:12:01

red because we knew that there

00:12:04

would soon be a Russian offensive, who was placing the

00:12:07

microphones people from the telephone service

00:12:10

They carried out telephone communications and wires

00:12:12

to the microphones, the wires were the same here and there,

00:12:16

I’ll explain to you if you’re interested.

00:12:19

You know what direct current is,

00:12:22

direct current is only here, and alternating current is

00:12:25

here and there, if a cable with a

00:12:27

current is attached to the microphone and

00:12:30

fired from guns, then the direct current

00:12:32

will begin to oscillate, while the oscillation

00:12:35

is recorded from the second microphone, other

00:12:38

cables, and the third, others, these are the differences

00:12:41

for the noted time, I

00:12:44

recalculate them here, we had one

00:12:47

person in front as far as possible,

00:12:49

he had a phone when he

00:12:52

heard a cannon shot, he hit us

00:12:54

the phone said a shot, then we

00:12:57

turned on the recording and shot a movie. While the sound

00:13:01

reached the last microphone it

00:13:03

took a couple of seconds, he said a shot,

00:13:06

I turned it on and after a couple of seconds

00:13:09

vibrations came out from here, you changed Who was

00:13:12

in front with the one who was recording in the rear.

00:13:15

Sometimes yes, but more often there were alone in front and the

00:13:18

same, after all, this is the job of the commander, six people,

00:13:22

within their team they could

00:13:24

change at the microphones, there were also

00:13:26

certain people, also a person on the

00:13:29

microphone, they made sure that there was communication,

00:13:32

if the wire from the microphone broke, they

00:13:35

repaired it; for this, a team of

00:13:38

at least six professional

00:13:40

trained people was needed you had free time at

00:13:43

the front, what did you do? Then we didn’t

00:13:46

do anything, we didn’t wait, we didn’t sing, we didn’t play

00:13:50

cards, we dug dugouts and dug cracks,

00:13:54

the officers watched your appearance.

00:13:57

Yes, but we ourselves always,

00:14:00

as far as possible, but it didn’t

00:14:02

always work out. Have you been to on vacation

00:14:05

Yes, during my service in the Armed Forces, twice the sergeant major

00:14:09

kept a list according to which

00:14:12

those who had not been on vacation for a long time went home first, they did

00:14:14

n’t always knock, there were

00:14:17

periods when they were canceled altogether when I was

00:14:20

going home. First I had to get to the

00:14:23

station And then to the train alone since I

00:14:26

had to go on vacation from Kursk,

00:14:29

before that I had to first

00:14:31

make my way into the city there was a

00:14:34

collection point and only from there a train came from

00:14:37

them sometimes and they were blown up on the way at night

00:14:40

in 1942, it was probably in

00:14:43

my opinion that the vacation lasted For 14 days I was in

00:14:46

Konstanz and Konstanz was illuminated and all of

00:14:50

Germany was black because of the

00:14:52

bombers, it’s still on the border with

00:14:54

Switzerland, it’s there across the Rhine, I

00:14:58

asked myself If I cross it now, I’ll end

00:15:01

up in a peaceful life, but I’ll become a

00:15:03

deserter How glad I can be that

00:15:07

we won’t do this because the Swiss

00:15:09

would send me back And here they would

00:15:12

shoot me How do you feel about the Russians

00:15:15

as an enemy Russian veterans often

00:15:17

say that they hated the Germans then

00:15:20

during the war I had no direct contacts

00:15:23

with Russian soldiers, but I saw them

00:15:25

dead in my presence there were no good

00:15:28

feelings about this, you know the enemy is or is not the enemy But

00:15:31

this is a person when a person is Dead he

00:15:34

suddenly becomes very small

00:15:37

How you were taken prisoner Oh God this is a long

00:15:40

story our unit was retreating And probably

00:15:43

we were the last to go the stormtroopers arrived

00:15:46

bombed us ours fled then we

00:15:49

again got together but with

00:15:51

soldiers from other parts, all mixed up,

00:15:54

we didn’t know anything where we were, what was happening

00:15:58

and

00:15:59

no, we wanted to break out of the cauldron,

00:16:02

we were going to attack, but there were already

00:16:05

Russians everywhere, we hid in the forest, then they

00:16:08

came and took us prisoner, this was in

00:16:10

forty damn year where they sent you

00:16:13

after that How they took you prisoner It’s a long

00:16:16

story First they gathered us But it

00:16:19

lasted for many days Then

00:16:21

they took us somewhere then Rada I went to the Russian

00:16:24

railways myself in the railways to

00:16:29

repair the disabled

00:16:31

railways There I worked in the cities together with the Russian soldiers

00:16:34

in which all this

00:16:37

happened I can’t remember since

00:16:39

we moved along the railways we

00:16:42

had to work From dawn to

00:16:44

dusk, sometimes we had food and

00:16:47

sometimes there was practically nothing, it was

00:16:49

clear that our case was hopeless I,

00:16:53

along with two other prisoners of war

00:16:55

from there we escaped, we didn’t know where we

00:16:57

were, we were

00:16:59

just heading west, but we were

00:17:01

practically unable to walk, we were so

00:17:05

exhausted for a couple of days, our friend, who

00:17:08

was older, could no longer walk and died, and the

00:17:12

two of us who remained were young and

00:17:14

continued to walk and came across one bunker

00:17:18

someone lived there, we were hungry and thought

00:17:20

that we would find some food, suddenly a

00:17:23

woman came out of the bunker, she saw us

00:17:26

and got scared, she was wearing an old German

00:17:29

uniform, partly narrower than the Soviet one, we were

00:17:32

very dirty and unshaven, she screamed and

00:17:35

we ran away. Then a Russian soldier came.

00:17:38

we were caught and handed over to the partisans. The

00:17:41

partisans were all quite elderly people

00:17:43

with weapons. There we ate normally for the first time.

00:17:46

It was summer. Autumn was approaching.

00:17:50

It must have been September. The nights

00:17:53

were already cold, I remember I slept in the hay, and by

00:17:56

the morning it was already cold. These

00:17:58

partisans took us to village in the forest

00:18:01

there were only civilians there. Many women

00:18:04

they took us to a house where we had to

00:18:07

sit on a bench; women came and

00:18:10

looked at us with curiosity. Among

00:18:13

them there was one who spoke

00:18:14

German, a young girl of our

00:18:17

age, she asked where we were from, we didn’t

00:18:20

say that they escaped from captivity, those who

00:18:23

escaped were shot if we had

00:18:25

said that, they would have sent us back and it would have been

00:18:28

our death. But we didn’t want this,

00:18:31

we said that we were scattered, our

00:18:34

unit fled, and we got lost, they

00:18:37

believed us. Then the sergeant came to us.

00:18:40

he was drunk, very drunk, he started

00:18:42

to rage terribly, swear in Russian We

00:18:45

didn’t understand him, he grabbed us, pulled us out

00:18:48

into the street, took a machine gun and wanted to

00:18:50

shoot us, there was a toilet with a

00:18:52

hole right there and wanted to shoot us, then a

00:18:55

woman came and started talking to him,

00:18:57

she was probably fine she knew him,

00:18:59

she distracted him somewhere and took us away,

00:19:03

then we were sent to another village,

00:19:05

also in the middle of the village, then we were sent to

00:19:08

another village, also in the middle of the forest, they

00:19:11

spent two or three days helping us dig

00:19:14

potatoes and feeding us, then an

00:19:17

officer came and interrogated us, he was excellent

00:19:20

spoke German I think that he was a

00:19:22

Jew, there were a lot of Jewish

00:19:25

officers there, he interrogated us and recorded our

00:19:28

impressions

00:19:29

from there we ended up in Vitebsk in the main

00:19:31

camp, you were brought to the camp personally by this

00:19:34

officer and already in that one in the present And before

00:19:38

we were in that railway part in

00:19:40

Vitebsk there was a huge

00:19:42

prisoner of war camp. He was there back in the First

00:19:45

World War, it looked like this, that’s

00:19:48

exactly what he looked like. There were very

00:19:50

large three-story barracks, they had

00:19:53

wire mesh mattresses on which

00:19:55

you could sleep quite comfortably, but in

00:19:58

those barracks there was no the windows were dark there, there

00:20:01

were only a couple of open hatches, one

00:20:03

barrack was reserved for people

00:20:05

who were likely to die and the rest for

00:20:08

those who went to work there in this

00:20:10

camp during the second half of the war there

00:20:12

were about 88,000 prisoners of war by the

00:20:15

time it ended there were only

00:20:18

600 or 800 people left all the rest were

00:20:21

sent to other places or died, but

00:20:24

then new prisoners of war came here, in

00:20:26

particular from East Prussia, where the

00:20:29

last battles took place, they filled the camp again

00:20:32

And at that moment it instantly became better,

00:20:35

regular meals appeared, and

00:20:38

even the food itself became surprisingly good. I was

00:20:41

in this camp before

00:20:42

1946 then I was transferred to another

00:20:46

small one And I returned home in

00:20:49

1949 Another question about the camps they say that

00:20:53

there were the same German guards and

00:20:55

they treated prisoners of war Even

00:20:57

worse than the Russians

00:20:59

yes Yes there is one story only he was not

00:21:02

German but he was Lithuanian He served in the German

00:21:04

Wehrmacht and spoke German. His native language

00:21:07

was Lithuanian and he

00:21:10

spoke excellent Russian. The Russians installed him as an

00:21:12

overseer. He walked everywhere with a stick

00:21:16

on which a bicycle tube was stretched, and with

00:21:18

this stick he beat the prisoners. But

00:21:21

they could not answer. They were weak. from

00:21:24

hunger, this is true, later the German Soldiers were

00:21:27

also used as guards. But

00:21:29

then everything was much better than in

00:21:32

1945. For example, in Vitebsk there

00:21:34

was a grandiose construction site subordinate to the

00:21:37

NKVD, a large house was being built there, everything was

00:21:40

fenced with barbed wire and there

00:21:42

were towers on all four corners. There was one sitting there.

00:21:45

German, he couldn’t work, he was

00:21:48

sick with something, and so He made sure that no one

00:21:50

ran away and received a little better food for this,

00:21:53

but still no one ran away. Even those

00:21:56

who did it came back.

00:21:59

Who did you work in Vitebsk at a construction site? I

00:22:01

was an auxiliary worker. What? carried

00:22:04

back and forth then worked as a mason

00:22:07

basically did anything we

00:22:09

had to do whatever we were told it was

00:22:12

good when you knew how to do

00:22:15

something much better than just as an auxiliary

00:22:17

worker Then you would have to do

00:22:19

all sorts of hard work We also worked at

00:22:22

forest Trees were felled and taken away Have

00:22:25

you been to other camps after the war? We

00:22:29

were in Minsk, we lived there in a tent on

00:22:31

the way to the city, a huge round

00:22:34

house burned down and we repaired it. But that didn’t

00:22:36

last long. From there we were

00:22:38

sent to the Donetsk basin.

00:22:41

I don’t remember the name of the city. What

00:22:43

is the name of the capital Kiev to Kiev? We

00:22:46

took a train from there, we were already taken away

00:22:50

in trucks, we arrived at the Coal Mine,

00:22:53

it was already processed and filled with

00:22:55

water to a level of 240 m underground, there

00:22:59

was a coal lift there, but there

00:23:01

was none for people, and We built a shaft for the

00:23:04

lift to a level of -240 m the camp was

00:23:08

at a distance of 4 or 5 km from the Mine. In winter it

00:23:12

was especially bad after a shift of 8

00:23:15

hours of hard work and after you

00:23:17

climb 240 m on foot. We were

00:23:21

completely wet from sweat and from what was

00:23:24

below there was cheese in the mine then so as not to

00:23:27

freeze to death

00:23:28

all the way to the camp we had to

00:23:30

run through the cold in wet clothes if you

00:23:33

get used to it if you are young and

00:23:35

healthy then you could survive there what did you

00:23:38

know about Russia gave wars This is a good

00:23:41

question I when I was a young man

00:23:44

a lot I read straight up devoured books I read a

00:23:47

couple of Russian writers by Tolstoy, cheap

00:23:50

editions of small size with small

00:23:52

font they fascinated me and I also

00:23:56

read one book about Russians it was called A

00:23:59

Forgotten Village Half a Roman but on a

00:24:01

documentary basis it is about a

00:24:04

prisoner of war of the First World War he

00:24:06

was a German who lived in St. Petersburg and when

00:24:09

the war began He had to escape

00:24:12

then he was somewhere in Russia Like a

00:24:14

prisoner of war somewhere in Siberia This

00:24:16

story interested me very much And

00:24:19

when I was a prisoner in Russia it

00:24:21

especially helped me a lot I knew how to

00:24:24

behave already nothing was new to me

00:24:27

Well I thought I was accordingly possible

00:24:32

That's why I survived captivity and you

00:24:35

have examples When you behaved According to

00:24:37

this book Yes, simply put, I always

00:24:40

tried to go with the flow I

00:24:43

was never in front I was never behind I I

00:24:46

was always in the middle when I was trying to

00:24:48

maintain my health I didn’t give up, I

00:24:51

never picked up cigarette butts and I never

00:24:53

ate something wrong I think that the

00:24:56

sun helped me

00:24:58

you made the biggest impression

00:25:00

in Russia What was the most amazing thing

00:25:03

the most amazing thing was that Jews were

00:25:06

represented in black In the world they were

00:25:09

to blame for everything, but for myself I established

00:25:12

that the situation was exactly the opposite. One

00:25:15

episode, every morning we were assigned to

00:25:18

work teams, the people for

00:25:21

whom we were supposed to work came and we were

00:25:23

taken away by an officer who

00:25:28

spoke Yiddish, which is a dialect of German.

00:25:32

He was very correct then adj. another

00:25:35

officer is Asian. He wanted to take over a work

00:25:37

brigade and cursed us. He generally

00:25:40

treated prisoners of war very badly. But the

00:25:43

first officer, who was a Jew,

00:25:45

didn’t want to give people to him. They were both

00:25:48

NKVD officers and they swore among themselves,

00:25:51

while the Jew who especially should

00:25:54

have hated us was he. on our

00:25:56

side, this impressed me the second

00:26:00

officer even threatened him with a pistol, as

00:26:03

was the case with the anti-fascists in captivity, they didn’t

00:26:06

like them because they were incomprehensible, you

00:26:09

never knew how they would

00:26:11

treat you in the next minute, we didn’t

00:26:13

trust them, but the Russians didn’t trust them either we

00:26:16

trusted, we tried to keep our distance from them,

00:26:18

they didn’t work, they had

00:26:21

relationships with the Russian administration. We

00:26:23

never knew what they would do and

00:26:26

tried to be as careful as possible

00:26:28

did you have lice, how did you fight them?

00:26:35

-those degrees could still keep

00:26:37

themselves clean, but starting in

00:26:40

1944 there were lice in the camp, I

00:26:42

had a gray military sweater, and sometimes it

00:26:45

seemed like it was silvering with lice, there

00:26:48

were whole flocks of them day and night, we

00:26:50

clicked them, but starting in 1945 The

00:26:53

Russians fought very hard against this

00:26:55

infection. The barracks cleaned things with talcum powder,

00:26:58

took them away and steamed them, or simply

00:27:01

took them away and gave us new ones. We

00:27:03

had already been in everything Russian for a long time, from Bel to the

00:27:06

cap, you were captured in

00:27:09

1944, it was before or after July 20, I

00:27:12

think it was after If I

00:27:15

remember everything correctly, I was captured somewhere on July 27,

00:27:19

in some books it was

00:27:21

written exactly when the boiler was slammed What

00:27:24

was your attitude towards July 20 and the

00:27:26

assassination attempt on Hitler

00:27:28

Good question I have to think about it, I don’t remember,

00:27:31

I found out about this before or after captivity How do

00:27:35

you

00:27:36

feel about this? We just hoped that the war would

00:27:39

end soon. We were in a foreign

00:27:41

country where we didn’t have to go at all, but

00:27:44

we had to be there. We couldn’t

00:27:46

live the way we wanted. We were

00:27:49

actually just executors of orders. We

00:27:51

lived like All the soldiers had dogs that were ordered to

00:27:54

come or go, so there

00:27:57

were officers who participated in all this

00:28:00

and could change something from

00:28:03

them, this is what we need to ask, we

00:28:05

talked to some officer yesterday, he

00:28:08

also said that they only followed orders,

00:28:11

apparently In any army, yes but in the

00:28:14

Wehrmacht, a person generally begins with a

00:28:16

lieutenant, I don’t know how it would be in the

00:28:19

Russian army, but I think that it

00:28:21

wasn’t so bad there, and in the Wehrmacht

00:28:24

they looked at you as a person, only starting

00:28:26

with a lieutenant, an officer, a soldier was only

00:28:29

a number. How did you perceive the surrender?

00:28:32

What a relief Yes, the war ended, this

00:28:36

was the moment when we could start

00:28:38

something again and hope for something in the future,

00:28:41

unexpectedly we received a lot of food,

00:28:44

as much as we could not even eat

00:28:47

before, we were starving, there were whole buckets of

00:28:50

soup and cabbage and good soup, a lot of

00:28:54

bread that’s why I

00:28:56

say I’m healthy after the war

00:28:59

ended, the sun got better when I

00:29:02

think today that the Russians themselves

00:29:04

had nothing then and the whole country was

00:29:06

destroyed, I must say that we were very

00:29:09

lucky, we received 600 g of bread a day and

00:29:12

three times soup is not much but it was

00:29:15

possible to live. I don’t know if

00:29:18

Russian prisoners received the same amount in German captivity. I’m not

00:29:21

sure that they received that much. How were you

00:29:23

released from captivity? I worked in a factory,

00:29:27

some large parts were cast from metal; we

00:29:30

worked in a factory and lived in a

00:29:33

camp, and so in this camp they were constantly

00:29:35

looking for all sorts of specialists to work in the

00:29:38

city as it is called now, I don’t

00:29:40

remember, I was a suitable specialist and

00:29:43

began to work outside the camp and not in factories,

00:29:46

soon a rumor spread that we were about

00:29:48

to be liberated and in this city there was also a

00:29:51

women’s camp there. young

00:29:53

Romanian German women, they also went to work

00:29:56

in the foundry. Well, that’s another story

00:29:59

when you were liberated. You got

00:30:01

some of your things back. No, I didn’t

00:30:04

get anything because I did

00:30:06

n’t have anything. If we had something

00:30:09

they would have immediately been taken away by the Soldiers in the cauldron

00:30:12

The only thing that hurt me was that they

00:30:15

took away my tobacco, there was nothing else,

00:30:17

neither a ring nor a watch, you received

00:30:21

money for working in captivity. I earned about

00:30:24

200 rubles, but they didn’t pay us in full,

00:30:27

almost the entire amount was taken away and

00:30:30

I only had enough left for bread But it

00:30:32

was only in the last place what did you

00:30:34

do after the war after Russia after

00:30:37

captivity I returned home I had pants, a

00:30:40

shirt, homemade boots from the camp and a

00:30:43

new blue cotton jacket and a spoon, the first

00:30:46

thing I did was go to my mother, she was in in the

00:30:49

Russian zone of occupation then I thought

00:30:52

that there was no way I would stay there. My mother still

00:30:54

had some of my civilian clothes, I

00:30:57

took them and went to Singer where they lived

00:31:00

before, there I had to regain my

00:31:02

real name since I had

00:31:05

someone else’s incorrect one for a long time Because when I

00:31:08

was captured for the second time, I identified myself as him

00:31:11

so that I wouldn’t be sent back to the

00:31:13

place of my escape, where I would definitely

00:31:15

have been shot. I then introduced myself as

00:31:20

a Grüner and officially I bore the

00:31:23

Mother’s surname, so in Zing I went to my

00:31:26

master from whom he studied and He

00:31:28

confirmed my real name later

00:31:32

After a lot of back and forth, I ended up

00:31:34

in Switzerland where I lived. My father, he was

00:31:37

sick, I thought that I could help him,

00:31:40

I thought that I would go and find a job there,

00:31:43

but I could not get permission for it.

00:31:46

If I had another profession it

00:31:48

would have been possible, but as a photographer, no. In

00:31:52

general, it didn’t work out, then I went to

00:31:54

Konstanz, found a job here, I stayed.

00:31:58

Thank you very much for the story, friends, and we have

00:32:01

everything for today, be sure to write

00:32:04

comments What do you think about this,

00:32:06

subscribe to the channel If you are

00:32:08

not subscribed, click on

00:32:10

the bell and be sure to Like

00:32:12

everything, see you soon

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