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Zelensky visits front near Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine • FRANCE 24 English

Zelensky visits front near Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine • FRANCE 24 English

Channel: FRANCE 24 English

CNN

News

Top News

World

Ukraine

Russia

military

F-16

fighter jet

land

counteroffensive

Zelensky

Antony Blinken

Fareed Zakaria

cnn

news

00:00:00

Mr. Secretary, pleasure to have you on.

00:00:01

Great to be with you, Fareed.

00:00:03

Tell us what you can.

00:00:05

A sense of

00:00:06

what is going on in the counteroffensive

00:00:09

that Ukraine is

00:00:12

attempting with Russia.

00:00:14

So far, the reports seem to be

00:00:16

it is very slow and very tough going.

00:00:18

Well, first read put this in perspective

00:00:20

in terms of what

00:00:21

Russia sought to achieve,

00:00:22

what Putin sought to achieve.

00:00:24

They've already failed. They've already lost.

00:00:25

The the objective was to erase Ukraine

00:00:27

from the map,

00:00:28

to eliminate its independence

00:00:29

and sovereignty,

00:00:30

to subsume it into Russia.

00:00:31

That failed a long time ago.

00:00:33

Now, Ukraine is in a battle to get back

00:00:36

more of the land that Russia seized from it.

00:00:37

It's already

00:00:38

taken back about 50% of

00:00:40

what was initially seized.

00:00:41

Now they're in a very hard fight

00:00:43

to take back to take back more.

00:00:45

These are still relatively

00:00:46

early days of the counteroffensive.

00:00:47

It is tough

00:00:48

the Russians have put in place

00:00:49

strong defenses.

00:00:50

But I'm convinced that

00:00:52

with the equipment and support

00:00:54

they've received now

00:00:55

from more than 50 countries

00:00:57

with the training

00:00:58

that their forces have gotten,

00:00:59

and many of the forces

00:01:01

who've gotten that training

00:01:02

have not yet been fully into this fight.

00:01:04

And maybe more than anything else

00:01:06

with the fact that

00:01:08

unlike the Russians,

00:01:09

Ukrainians are fighting for their land,

00:01:11

for their future,

00:01:12

for their country, for their freedom.

00:01:14

I think that is the decisive element,

00:01:16

and that's going to play out,

00:01:17

but it will not play out

00:01:18

over the next week or two.

00:01:19

We're still looking

00:01:20

I think it's several months.

00:01:22

So if you

00:01:23

look at what

00:01:24

the Ukrainians are up against,

00:01:25

these minefields

00:01:27

Ben trenches, then Russian artillery.

00:01:30

One of the reasons that is proving

00:01:32

so difficult

00:01:33

is that they have no air power.

00:01:35

If the US Army were to do this,

00:01:38

the United

00:01:39

States would have massive air power,

00:01:41

lots of bombing.

00:01:42

Clear the way.

00:01:43

Make it possible

00:01:44

for the troops to then move forward.

00:01:46

Why not give the Ukrainians the F-16s

00:01:49

that they are asking for?

00:01:50

Because that will make

00:01:52

this counteroffensive

00:01:53

much more effective,

00:01:54

Fred, at every step along the way.

00:01:56

In fact, going back before the Russian aggression,

00:01:58

when we saw the storm rising.

00:02:00

And we made sure going back to Labor Day

00:02:02

before the war, Christmas before the war,

00:02:04

that they started

00:02:05

to get in their hands,

00:02:06

the equipment they would need

00:02:07

if the Russians went forward,

00:02:08

javelin, stingers, they had that on hand.

00:02:10

They were able to repel the attack

00:02:12

against Kiev.

00:02:13

They were able to save their country

00:02:14

from being taken entirely by Russia.

00:02:17

Every step along the way, ever since,

00:02:19

we've worked to try

00:02:20

to get them what they need

00:02:21

when they need it. But it's not just the equipment itself.

00:02:24

It's the training.

00:02:25

It's the maintenance.

00:02:26

It's the ability to use it in combined arms operations.

00:02:31

All of that takes time.

00:02:33

If a decision were made to actually

00:02:36

move forward on the F-16s tomorrow,

00:02:38

it would be months and months

00:02:40

before they were actually operation.

00:02:42

But then why not make the decision

00:02:43

so that they can get them?

00:02:44

So this is what we're working on now

00:02:45

because as I said,

00:02:46

it's not enough to give them a sixteens.

00:02:48

They've got to be trained.

00:02:49

The training program

00:02:50

is moving forward

00:02:51

with a number of countries.

00:02:52

All of that is happening.

00:02:53

But I'm not a military expert.

00:02:56

I think you've heard

00:02:58

Chairman Milley,

00:02:59

Lloyd Austin, the secretary defense,

00:03:01

speak to this.

00:03:02

We believe that

00:03:04

what they have

00:03:05

and what they've been trained on

00:03:07

is what they need to be effective,

00:03:08

including dealing with the Russian mines.

00:03:11

But it is hard going,

00:03:12

but they feel differently.

00:03:14

When I talk to Ukrainian as they say,

00:03:16

there's a pattern here.

00:03:17

Every time we ask for something,

00:03:18

we're first told,

00:03:19

you can't have it,

00:03:20

you're not ready for it,

00:03:21

you don't have the training for it.

00:03:23

And then from hymens

00:03:24

through cluster bombs,

00:03:26

eventually we get it, but we get it late.

00:03:29

And why not have given it to us earlier

00:03:31

if you're trying to make a difference

00:03:33

on the battlefield.

00:03:34

So if I were in the shoes

00:03:35

of our Ukrainian friends and partners,

00:03:37

I'd probably be saying exactly

00:03:39

the same thing.

00:03:40

And President Polanski's

00:03:41

been extraordinary.

00:03:43

Has as a leader

00:03:45

and in trying to galvanize

00:03:46

the international community

00:03:47

along with us to provide them

00:03:48

what they need. But the other thing is this

00:03:50

there are 50

00:03:51

some odd countries in this coalition

00:03:52

in support of Ukraine

00:03:54

Lloyd Austin has been leading this process

00:03:56

on the military side.

00:03:57

And different countries

00:03:59

do different things at different times.

00:04:01

And it all complements each other.

00:04:02

So, for example,

00:04:04

we have certain munitions

00:04:06

that we provided to the Ukrainians,

00:04:07

including the high marks.

00:04:10

Other countries have provided

00:04:11

some munitions that have a longer range

00:04:13

because as the Russians moved back,

00:04:15

their command and control,

00:04:16

as they move back

00:04:17

some of their supply depots

00:04:19

out of range in some cases of what

00:04:20

we've given them,

00:04:21

the munitions

00:04:22

that other countries are providing

00:04:23

as part of an organized coalition

00:04:25

are allowing the Ukrainians to hit them.

00:04:27

They've had some significant success.

00:04:29

So our military leaders are using

00:04:31

their best expertize possible

00:04:32

to help determine

00:04:34

what it is that can be most effective

00:04:36

for the Ukrainians. How quickly can it be deployed?

00:04:38

How effectively can they use it?

00:04:40

That will continue.

00:04:41

And the process on the F-16s is moving,

00:04:43

which means they will get F-16s.

00:04:45

Well, look, I believe that

00:04:47

that they will. And the important focus is on

00:04:50

making sure that when they do,

00:04:54

they're properly trained, they're able to

00:04:56

maintain the planes

00:04:57

and use them in a smart way.

00:04:59

Do you think it could be

00:05:00

part of the Russian strategy

00:05:01

to try to wait for the election of 20, 24

00:05:05

hope that Donald Trump

00:05:06

comes into the White House

00:05:07

and they can cut a deal with him?

00:05:08

Well, again, everything we put in motion

00:05:10

and that many other countries

00:05:11

are taking a lead role in

00:05:13

that will happen irrespective

00:05:14

of what happens

00:05:15

in any given election

00:05:16

in any one of our countries.

00:05:18

There is now a long term program in place

00:05:20

that will

00:05:22

make sure that Ukraine is providing.

00:05:23

75%, obviously.

00:05:25

If you look at the burden sharing on this

00:05:27

between the United States,

00:05:28

Europe and other partners, Japan

00:05:31

and others, it's actually quite remarkable.

00:05:33

Other countries have stepped up in ways

00:05:35

that we haven't seen before.

00:05:37

On the security side,

00:05:38

we're the order, the number one provider,

00:05:39

but others have done a lot

00:05:42

But if you look as well on the economic

00:05:43

side, the

00:05:45

ability to make sure that

00:05:47

Ukraine has direct

00:05:48

budgetary support, more

00:05:49

is actually coming from

00:05:50

from Europe and others than from US

00:05:52

humanitarian assistance.

00:05:53

The refugees

00:05:54

who've been housed in throughout Europe

00:05:56

and are able to work,

00:05:57

send their kids to school.

00:05:59

All of that collectively has been

00:06:00

a remarkable demonstration

00:06:02

of countries coming together

00:06:04

and assuming their responsibilities

Description:

Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaks with CNN's Fareed Zakaria about the state of war in Ukraine and the weapons training the military needs to continue to be effective.

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