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Точка сборки

Марцинкевич

индустриализация

промышленность

промышленная революция

наука

нефть

газ

производство

санкции против россии

ссср

импортозамещение

промышленная индустриализация

Евгений Гашо

Борис Марцинкевич

водород

борисмарцинкевич

евгенийгашо

точкасборки

00:00:00

[music]

00:00:05

Good afternoon Dear viewers, listeners, this is the

00:00:07

channel assemblage point I am Boris

00:00:09

Martsinkevich and today the studio is the scientific

00:00:12

director of our expert council of the

00:00:14

Aurora Foundation Doctor of Sciences professors of the

00:00:18

Moscow Energy Institute

00:00:20

Evgeniy Gennadievich Gosha

00:00:22

Good afternoon

00:00:24

This is the topic that arose in my head I

00:00:27

think I’ll have to return to it Although

00:00:30

It seems that at one time all this subsided

00:00:32

in 2020, the so-called green deal was formulated in the European Union.

00:00:40

But its essence boiled down to the fact that Europe will

00:00:44

deliberately abandon fossil

00:00:47

energy resources and switch

00:00:49

exclusively to Via. Hydrogen

00:00:52

should act as a new energy resource.

00:00:55

The idea boils down to the fact that Yes

00:00:57

truly climate-dependent

00:01:00

generation at solar and wind

00:01:01

power plants there are no clouds here there is

00:01:05

wind too strong the wind is too

00:01:07

weak accordingly now in order

00:01:11

to regulate not only the peaks of demand

00:01:14

but also the peaks of consumption one has to

00:01:16

make a

00:01:17

significant effort. But if all the

00:01:20

surplus is directed to

00:01:22

electrolyzers that will

00:01:25

produce hydrogen using the method of electrolysis

00:01:27

from water, then the

00:01:30

issue with excess

00:01:33

electricity will be resolved; thunderous, if the network does not

00:01:36

work, it means it costs nothing; this is

00:01:38

excellent logic;

00:01:39

we will produce a lot, a lot of hydrogen;

00:01:49

it will be warm and good

00:01:52

Well, Europe dissuaded its own

00:01:55

in the same year Oddly enough, or a year

00:01:58

later In my opinion, a hydrogen strategy appeared in Russia,

00:02:02

in many ways a copy of what was invented in

00:02:05

the European Union without much analysis and at the same time,

00:02:09

following the outstanding energy specialist of

00:02:12

our time, Anatoly Borisovich

00:02:14

Chubais, who proclaimed that in the

00:02:17

thirtieth year, the global hydrogen market

00:02:19

will be something like one hundred and five hundred billion

00:02:22

trillion dollars, we will break into

00:02:25

this market and take 20% for ourselves,

00:02:28

and government funding will go towards this, and

00:02:30

in volumes greater

00:02:32

than we would allow for financing the development of our

00:02:35

own technologies for

00:02:37

large-scale gas movement twice as much the

00:02:40

ratio of the result of the action is known,

00:02:43

patents appeared for

00:02:46

medium-tonnage movement of their own for

00:02:48

large-tonnage movement, but not

00:02:50

state-owned companies Novatek, which,

00:02:53

as it were, at first for some time Waited for the

00:02:55

import substitution program of 2015

00:02:58

to be implemented;

00:03:00

quite large amounts of financing were provided for;

00:03:02

it was possible to get about 15% of this

00:03:07

[music ]

00:03:09

now, accordingly, the state, if

00:03:12

it decides to

00:03:13

develop the LNG industry using its own

00:03:16

technologies, will have to pay royalties, so

00:03:19

this is an excellent result

00:03:23

because it turned out that their is an excellent

00:03:28

model of the energy market. It is very

00:03:31

good, it’s just not suitable for some conditions.

00:03:33

I really liked this

00:03:35

formulation, an excellent model. But the fact that there is a

00:03:37

crisis happened Well, this was not

00:03:40

foreseen and the model is very good

00:03:41

If the facts interfere with the theory, unfortunately, it seems to

00:03:44

have died down and suddenly all this

00:03:47

has intensified, we started talking again,

00:03:49

no

00:03:50

SG projects, green certificates, something

00:03:55

else, I have already repeatedly attempted to

00:03:59

tell what this

00:04:02

Green means arrow for Europe itself and

00:04:04

compare with what results it will give

00:04:08

Russia, but somehow it seemed like there was no strength and

00:04:11

then it seemed to disappear,

00:04:14

and

00:04:16

two years ago the

00:04:22

title of the book came out, I recommend it on the Internet

00:04:25

completely free of charge,

00:04:30

and where did you evaluate, in fact,

00:04:33

what of this what of it will come out She That

00:04:36

was the name of

00:04:37

renewable energy sources hydrogen

00:04:40

in the energy system problems and advantages

00:04:43

Now I have a desire Well, maybe I can

00:04:46

do it according to this monograph it was

00:04:48

written as

00:04:50

you were taught How you can That is, with all

00:04:53

the calculations

00:04:54

with all the postures of the material of the container

00:04:56

resources of the container and so on further and so on to

00:04:59

do this, there may even be a cycle

00:05:01

of programs so that This program is

00:05:04

more obvious Well, in any case, the

00:05:07

author should start. Therefore, with you,

00:05:10

the presentation of this book, didn’t it manage to

00:05:12

speed up in 2 years due to the fact that there is an

00:05:14

excellent Energy model for

00:05:17

some conditions turned out to be not

00:05:18

calculated How do you evaluate the efforts of

00:05:20

our statesmen who are

00:05:22

deliberately engaged in the implementation of the

00:05:23

hydrogen program of Russia

00:05:28

Good questions are

00:05:30

not very outdated because now we

00:05:33

have added a couple of chapters there,

00:05:37

on the one hand, related to the German

00:05:39

experience of what all this turned out to be Yes,

00:05:42

which was such a country that

00:05:44

Recently was the locomotive of the European Union was

00:05:46

the locomotive of the Union now in general It’s funny that

00:05:49

everyone added material that concerns the

00:05:51

Russian experience of nuclear

00:05:54

technology, which, in

00:05:56

fact, in the 70s they say that since the late

00:05:59

60s they have been actively developing in our country, quite

00:06:01

now they

00:06:03

are being restored, this is high-

00:06:05

temperature HGR gas cooled reactors

00:06:06

and low low respect to the nuclear scientists

00:06:10

who managed to maintain these competencies

00:06:12

now we will develop them further

00:06:16

now it will be moving as an electronic

00:06:18

version will also be available on the Cook website

00:06:26

the direction of

00:06:29

high temperature gas cooled

00:06:31

reactors we have been overtaken by China there is an experienced

00:06:34

experimental two reactors with a capacity of

00:06:35

100 megawatts each are already operating what

00:06:38

we are planning now according to

00:06:41

Rosatom’s plans for 2028 2029 is not

00:06:44

earlier than the reason Rosatom is waiting for the emergence of

00:06:47

potential customers, what it

00:06:51

sometimes manages to wait for we see in the

00:06:53

example of low-power nuclear power plants on

00:06:55

floating land-based ones, this is no longer a

00:06:58

state contract program with

00:07:00

very specific private

00:07:02

companies. here the same result

00:07:05

Although maybe China didn’t eat it,

00:07:09

evil tongues say that the key

00:07:12

developers of Chinese stations

00:07:14

were

00:07:16

very famous Chinese specialists,

00:07:19

so of course it is clear that

00:07:23

these are still traces of these same technologies of ours, which are

00:07:26

not kept secret because there is

00:07:28

nothing like that here. Simply It is clear that there is a

00:07:31

high temperature and there is no water, water

00:07:35

vapor And this is all different, the safety

00:07:37

is different accordingly Yes, and there it

00:07:40

all works and this technology allows,

00:07:42

as you and I know, to obtain hydrogen not

00:07:45

expensively but inexpensively

00:07:47

relative to all other methods,

00:07:49

environmentally friendly without burning methane without

00:07:53

various consequences, plus more in the cycle

00:07:56

you can get a lot of other useful

00:07:58

things, for example, the temperature for

00:08:00

electricity will remain, the electricity will remain

00:08:02

a piece. I’m not talking about heating,

00:08:05

everything is about everything else. Therefore, this is exactly the

00:08:08

circuit design for testing not just a

00:08:11

nuclear island, but a

00:08:12

heat-energy

00:08:13

heat-technological one, as we are more

00:08:16

accustomed to say, or energy-technologically,

00:08:19

this task is not a problem now. This is a task

00:08:22

that requires engineering experience

00:08:24

in research and so on,

00:08:26

so it’s

00:08:27

more or less clear here we need to

00:08:30

count all the different schemes,

00:08:37

all in Tatarstan, that a

00:08:39

site is now being selected for this so that

00:08:41

in the petrochemical industry we can slowly move

00:08:44

forward and I want to jump ahead right away, I want

00:08:46

to say that the

00:08:48

hydrogen energy strategy of

00:08:50

Tatarstan is more compact and more

00:08:52

thought out in this regard. It

00:08:54

includes industry, if

00:08:56

our first concept is

00:08:58

hydrogen. They were just

00:09:01

focused on illusory markets,

00:09:03

illusory transport through gas pipes

00:09:06

that someone saw somewhere -

00:09:08

somewhere in the distance on these means hydrogen gas

00:09:11

carts that were spreading out there like

00:09:14

cockroaches across all the seas and I don’t know about

00:09:17

something. It’s just that the airships, everything

00:09:20

else was

00:09:23

clear more or less, so here, thank

00:09:26

God, the airships didn’t figure much. But

00:09:29

I would like

00:09:30

Well, coming back here,

00:09:32

the picture really is that they have cooled down, they have cooled down

00:09:36

there. That’s because actually turning on

00:09:39

Coal-based generation so as not to

00:09:41

cool down at all is good, yes. Well, that’s how we are moving

00:09:44

towards hydrogen; we turned on coal-fired stations for

00:09:46

terrible gigawatts there now, look around the

00:09:48

world. Yes, how much has China turned on? How much is

00:09:50

Germany in Europe? China Yes, it’s clear that

00:09:54

they are leaders Well, Europe gave good

00:09:57

results 21 year twenty-two plus

00:09:59

12% in Coal generation 22-21 another 9%

00:10:03

well done So it would have sprouted for them,

00:10:06

apparently the green deal has come closer to

00:10:08

implementation I

00:10:11

must say that in general

00:10:13

the idea itself

00:10:14

it’s not a new deal, because on the one

00:10:18

hand, they simply chose a

00:10:22

gun of three birds with one stone, they wanted to kill it

00:10:24

at once, and one hare

00:10:30

of kiwi, which in fact will greatly

00:10:32

ruin the work of drugs, peaks of production Yes,

00:10:35

renewable non-sources of which

00:10:38

for a second you can easily climb to

00:10:41

dial up the German energy system Well so

00:10:44

this means that such a beautiful picture at

00:10:46

6 in the morning the sun is standing for

00:10:48

6 years in the summer, which means it’s later there in the winter

00:10:52

So 40 gigabytes grow like this and

00:10:55

then at 6 in the evening everything goes down Well, that’s

00:10:57

beautiful, and how can you

00:10:59

keep

00:11:01

metallurgy or city hospitals there, for example, on these 40 gigabytes?

00:11:03

metro transport, like this time and again, is there

00:11:06

and then not, yes, you and I, I somehow don’t

00:11:09

really want to wake up on a

00:11:12

cloudy morning and find that it’s

00:11:16

windless and cloudy and it turns out that somehow that’s

00:11:19

not all. Work is not in the shower. I do

00:11:23

n’t have a coffee maker, that is, that’s it. today I'm going to

00:11:27

work with dirty hunger because,

00:11:29

sorry, it didn't work out with the sun, but

00:11:31

next time it might lead to a fat one, so

00:11:34

plump and well-fed now, of course,

00:11:36

it's all wrong with them, it's just that

00:11:37

this is a surplus, the second hare is to

00:11:39

develop your own technologies so that

00:11:41

later you can use them there a camera there in the

00:11:44

Congo in Nigeria there to sell somewhere

00:11:46

in Australia New Zealand this is also a goal

00:11:50

that is understandable for the German economy

00:11:52

for the Western economy of industry,

00:11:54

let’s say they scaled production to

00:11:57

reduce the cost to suppress competitors

00:11:59

through political efforts to notice

00:12:08

this is a totalitarian hare that is completely

00:12:12

incomprehensible, completely unnecessary

00:12:15

Russian gas which, in fact,

00:12:17

for a long time formed the basis of

00:12:19

the competitiveness of Germany in a number of

00:12:21

other countries. And now, too, to

00:12:24

get rid of it, there were three birds with one stone

00:12:25

running across the cover. And that means I wanted to

00:12:27

use all three at once somehow, but it did

00:12:30

n’t quite work out. Now, it’s true that the

00:12:32

third hare was a little guarded because what

00:12:34

kind of trouble is there with him Well, we'll wait

00:12:37

and see How things will turn out with all

00:12:39

these things Well, we took the trouble with our

00:12:42

colleagues to calculate But if anything But

00:12:44

if suddenly there it really is there That's the

00:12:48

final goal of the green deal in 2010 year,

00:12:52

Europe does not use

00:12:54

fossil fuels at all, because the rivers are solar

00:12:57

panels, hydrogen

00:12:58

Forever second water, what do you need for this, just

00:13:02

think there? Well, evaporate

00:13:05

half of the Danube, occupy an area

00:13:08

about 40 times larger than now with windmills and

00:13:11

panels, and increase production on

00:13:13

windmills and on these call sign systems

00:13:16

24 times, which means, accordingly, the

00:13:19

labor intensity of the material, the capacity of all this

00:13:22

crap will also be about 44-34 times

00:13:25

compared to other sources.

00:13:26

Where will all this come from, how will it all be?

00:13:28

Where to get water, which in Europe with

00:13:31

water is very bad with water, it seems unlikely

00:13:34

In Europe as a whole, the water supply is pretty bad. Well, no matter

00:13:37

how bad it is, water is a very

00:13:38

valuable resource. I can’t help but remember the

00:13:41

old story when, uh, the water

00:13:45

meters began to earn money,

00:13:46

and they began to gather, they began to

00:13:49

learn from the German experience, and so on, they

00:13:51

will think carefully about why so much.

00:13:54

developed in Europe, here on the water meter.

00:13:56

Where does it come from? They told the old

00:13:58

audience that in Europe in ancient times. Well,

00:14:02

in general, things were bad with water, just

00:14:04

like you and me, hygiene was

00:14:07

a little bad. That’s why they invented

00:14:09

perfume, but let’s see, because water was

00:14:12

bad, that’s why they invented wine and there

00:14:15

was always much more wine on the tables than

00:14:17

water and the best guests of the most

00:14:20

respected guests I invite you to visit, a

00:14:23

glass

00:14:25

decanter of pure water was placed on the table, this was the

00:14:28

greatest treasure, which means it’s not even

00:14:31

wine, it’s water and that’s why there has always

00:14:34

been such an attitude towards water that is, in Europe, the

00:14:36

water situation is, as it were, decently well. Well, it’s

00:14:39

not very good in the third Europe, the

00:14:42

water situation is not very good at all,

00:14:45

but in the rest of the 3, in general, everything is very bad. That’s why the

00:14:47

economy there has

00:14:50

some exceptions; in fact,

00:14:52

Norway

00:14:53

is good there is also Spitsbergen, we have there,

00:14:57

like this, the greenery of New Zealand, also with

00:14:59

water, it’s probably also good from Iceberg

00:15:01

if you tighten it, but you can

00:15:04

go higher there to dig around, they generally do

00:15:05

n’t understand a lot about energy, they don’t

00:15:07

understand what district heating is. Why

00:15:09

do you need to heat the water? take 100 degrees with a

00:15:11

bucket and scoop up a heater,

00:15:13

whatever you want, which means there is no Clean

00:15:16

water you need to climb 200 meters above the house,

00:15:17

take a shovel and get it, but this is a

00:15:20

separate country, it’s not very big Well,

00:15:23

in general, Yes, the water supply is a bit bad and you also have to

00:15:25

take it out of circulation Gigantic

00:15:27

amount of water Well, let’s say I do

00:15:29

n’t need the Danube, but let’s say something like the Elbe there or

00:15:31

something else. Well, well, now you

00:15:34

need to take it not just from the river, but you

00:15:35

need to take pure distilled water for a second.

00:15:37

That is, this is also

00:15:39

necessary for all this place b

00:15:43

energy

00:15:45

Yes, this is water, just in case, let me remind you

00:15:49

that in Europe they took away the light gradation of

00:15:53

hydrogen pants, hydrogen suddenly

00:15:56

acquired a color Well, this is the image we have, the

00:15:59

words are remembered by me complex colors, thank

00:16:02

God, also, that is, there is brown hydrogen,

00:16:04

these are produced from coal, there is gray

00:16:09

hydrogen produced from methane by the method of

00:16:11

steam reforming,

00:16:14

some went further there, some one

00:16:16

nearby Yes, it

00:16:19

needs to be hidden somewhere, and then, in

00:16:24

my opinion, it was either yellow or something else,

00:16:26

the one produced by nuclear

00:16:27

power plants, but of course the best

00:16:30

in the world This green green is

00:16:33

the method of electrolysis exclusively, and the

00:16:36

electric ones themselves must be powered

00:16:39

exclusively by solar power plants,

00:16:42

so that the

00:16:45

installed power coefficient of the

00:16:46

electrolyzer itself will float a little, which we

00:16:49

optimally work 24 hours a day, they are

00:16:51

then when the wind blows and the sun shines

00:16:54

or, on the contrary, the wind shines and the sun blows Well,

00:16:57

that's okay this is such a separate topic. Well,

00:17:00

energetically, we attach one

00:17:03

device with a low energy density to

00:17:06

another device which also

00:17:08

means this low energy density also

00:17:10

worsens and in general we get the efficiency at the

00:17:13

output if that means there accordingly.

00:17:17

So before wind turbines the energy density of

00:17:20

solar panels is the same there too 030402

00:17:23

probably and here we also have the same thing, that

00:17:25

is, collectively we get a simple thing:

00:17:28

hydrogen produced using such a

00:17:31

procedure is energy

00:17:35

20 percent less profitable than it

00:17:38

can give energy simply.

00:17:40

Why do we see the Renaissance of hydrogen

00:17:42

because it is easy to produce it? We need to

00:17:45

spend more energy than it does for us it

00:17:47

will give it That is, from an energy point of

00:17:49

view it is too expensive, you roughly speaking

00:17:51

spend 120 megawatts and store its

00:17:53

hydrogen 100 megawatts 95 95 in any

00:17:57

case, this ratio is in the wrong direction,

00:17:59

of course, so it is a

00:18:01

source, rather more say, of

00:18:04

some kind of peak power where it is needed,

00:18:06

by the way, including

00:18:09

special engines or

00:18:11

Space means either fuel cells

00:18:15

if there is little

00:18:16

power here, or it’s just an energy storage device

00:18:19

that can be added in some way, which

00:18:21

means it will be added there, respectively. Well,

00:18:24

those questions arise that none of the

00:18:26

scientists in materials science

00:18:29

have answered decided to store hydrogen,

00:18:31

transport hydrogen Well, the Green

00:18:33

Deal doesn’t actually concern the

00:18:35

wonderful wonderful strategy

00:18:37

of hydrogen energy,

00:18:42

we came to the forest king And asked

00:18:44

what we should do so that we don’t get eaten by the Fox and he

00:18:47

said Yes, everything is just strategic, I’m

00:18:49

giving you excellent advice to become hedgehogs in

00:18:52

this in a sense, this is very important

00:18:53

strategic advice here which

00:18:55

needs to be transferred there. Well, what they were thinking about

00:18:57

in Europe is unknown, our

00:18:59

government decided that the development of the

00:19:01

strategic hydrogen program

00:19:03

will be answered by Gazprom, in

00:19:06

my opinion, Novatek and Rosatom. This is for

00:19:10

the government, as I understand it, some kind of

00:19:12

universal solution

00:19:14

there is no storage technology Rosatom there are no

00:19:17

transportation technologies, we apply

00:19:19

it turns it all into such a philosopher’s

00:19:22

stone of our government,

00:19:24

as we know, it solves problems

00:19:27

with waste of the first and second

00:19:29

hazard class by the northern sea route

00:19:31

with disposal in landfills

00:19:34

accumulated over 50 years of Soviet power,

00:19:37

for 30 years of our power, you do

00:19:42

n’t apply

00:19:47

any programs there to

00:19:51

the Day district of the worlds, that is, scientific

00:19:54

research work,

00:19:55

scientific research experimental

00:19:56

design work, there is no need to just

00:19:57

apply Rosatom everything and everything is ready at once,

00:20:00

now again they will blame

00:20:02

propaganda,

00:20:04

I want to say that listen, besides the riverbed,

00:20:07

there are also structures in general that

00:20:09

have been doing this for about 20 30 40

00:20:12

years then we have some of our

00:20:15

spaceships when they fly, they use hydrogen

00:20:17

in Voronezh, there are

00:20:18

in the city that is practically my native one

00:20:21

and where I studied and graduated from the

00:20:23

Polytechnic Institute, in this

00:20:25

case it’s not in acceleration I’m just, well, I

00:20:27

’m commenting a little somehow, the strategy

00:20:28

looks like some kind of government

00:20:30

developments of the program we don’t think about anything else, it’s

00:20:33

just that everything here is such a black

00:20:35

box, the finished result immediately

00:20:37

jumps out on its own,

00:20:39

and we stand from the side and any little

00:20:42

black thing creeps in from there like a

00:20:44

green one

00:20:47

into the Voronezh mechanical plant and

00:20:49

there are structures there that were

00:20:51

working on it engines for Buran There and

00:20:53

so on, there it all

00:20:55

worked quite well as it should and you and I know

00:20:57

that something flies as it should, as it should, where it

00:21:00

should and flies well. And at the same time, this is why this

00:21:03

work on technology is another example -

00:21:05

metallurgy and when here they start, it

00:21:09

means our metal factories

00:21:10

are turning green, we shudder a little

00:21:13

because we see people

00:21:16

turning green there or something green appearing there,

00:21:18

like sausage or something. Well,

00:21:20

green meat, for example, is associated with

00:21:22

sausage, sausages, this is a very sad

00:21:24

color in this regard for products, I think

00:21:26

what if our metallurgical

00:21:28

combinations start using hydrogen instead of Coke, it will

00:21:30

be greener

00:21:34

to do sales there because for that kind of money it

00:21:35

will be impossible to sell anything anywhere,

00:21:38

nevertheless Yes, this is exactly the

00:21:41

case when

00:21:42

if you compare Lipetsk and Belgorod

00:21:45

Stary Oskol

00:21:47

is the same case when It’s just a different

00:21:49

Technology And we don’t have

00:21:51

aglov factories, we don’t have coke

00:21:54

production Yes and that means our domain house is

00:21:57

also going away Yes, three dirty

00:21:58

productions are going away, instead of them comes the

00:22:00

direct reduction of iron, well, yes, this is

00:22:03

energy-intensive methane Almost half of methane is wasted

00:22:06

to get from it hydrogen and

00:22:09

hydrogen are restored directly The

00:22:10

uprising of iron occurs on slippery

00:22:12

ores Exactly because the iron content

00:22:15

there is 64-63% this is a unique deposit

00:22:18

We have a slippery plant there is a

00:22:21

special ore pipeline like this Well, that

00:22:24

means that the

00:22:26

ore masses from the Lebedinsky mine

00:22:29

come, one fragments

00:22:31

are restored there hydrogen produces

00:22:32

wonderful briquettes from which you can

00:22:35

throw it into the stove and get, in general,

00:22:37

excuse me for a second,

00:22:38

high-quality steel at one time

00:22:40

all this was taken away immediately for

00:22:44

export, this is the same case when it

00:22:47

works quite well and hydrogen

00:22:49

works in oil

00:22:51

refineries that is necessary in the production

00:22:53

process, they learned how to produce it.

00:22:54

Well, no one there thinks of

00:22:57

storing it. Yes, it was produced and immediately

00:23:00

sent to the chemical process, everything is in

00:23:02

order, there are no additional

00:23:04

costs for materials science, there are

00:23:06

no inventions required, where the

00:23:09

manufacturer immediately immediately

00:23:10

used everything in everything is in order and

00:23:12

production is in order, no

00:23:14

additional costs are ever

00:23:15

required, that is, hydrogen is something

00:23:18

completely new. We have learned

00:23:21

to produce it. No, of course, and here we are talking about the fact

00:23:24

that suddenly we will suddenly

00:23:26

replace it with something with terrible force,

00:23:29

this is also not entirely of course so Because, by

00:23:32

and large, we understand that

00:23:34

fuel cell hybrid systems there are

00:23:36

transport of fuel cells with

00:23:38

something or fuel cells that

00:23:39

can be used to

00:23:41

power small buildings there, but

00:23:44

all this is still very small power

00:23:47

active for various kinds of

00:23:49

renewable hybrid systems

00:23:51

which are sold in our country

00:23:53

abroad and there are many, very dozens, I would

00:23:56

say thousands of objects related to

00:23:58

wind turbines with microsystems for buildings,

00:24:00

heat pumps, solar collectors,

00:24:02

photos of valtayka for small different

00:24:04

buildings. But fuel cells are

00:24:06

there now,

00:24:07

literally, one two three 4 5 and these are

00:24:11

tiny tiny voltage tiny

00:24:14

power so to speak

00:24:16

tracking equipment that is there in

00:24:18

Antarctica watching over there someone

00:24:20

someone you this is only from the USP these are by no

00:24:23

means engines Yes, not that is, these are

00:24:25

cotton wool Well, or maybe there are

00:24:27

kilowatts approaching more so far

00:24:30

very difficult very difficult very difficult

00:24:32

everything worked out the meaning The energy

00:24:35

cost of hydrogen is more than the cost of the

00:24:38

incoming raw materials

00:24:41

But this is only the same meaning when there is

00:24:44

nothing else It’s like Buran Yes, here are the

00:24:46

first fuel cells

00:24:48

where there were Buran submarines there is

00:24:51

nothing else there therefore fuel cell

00:24:53

Accordingly, what to do, it

00:24:55

works like this and So, accordingly, it means that

00:24:57

somewhere between Sakhalin and the mainland

00:25:00

there is a station that transmits antennas

00:25:03

that broadcast there the Internet, and it

00:25:07

consumes this antenna, it does

00:25:08

not consume so much, but it needs a source

00:25:11

that is independent from nothing there,

00:25:13

respectively And this is a thought Not here 50 km

00:25:16

no one there Penguins here it’s nothing And

00:25:19

even to let you down and everything is not so easy by

00:25:20

helicopter Yes, not every day you can, that is,

00:25:22

put a fuel oil tank there and

00:25:25

who will monitor how it all will be Here

00:25:27

such solutions are a unique solution every

00:25:30

time there, strictly speaking, and they develop

00:25:31

exclusively

00:25:34

in my opinion, you respect the reasons for the troubles, the fact that the

00:25:36

retail stores were liquidated stood in Serbian style,

00:25:40

you feel great Well, yes, here

00:25:42

we can talk about micronuclear

00:25:45

different sources, but also low

00:25:47

power,

00:25:48

they were long-lasting there in my opinion since

00:25:51

10 years it was necessary to have these nuclear batteries

00:25:53

[ __ ] and work for a job No, we are there in

00:25:57

the fight for disarmament, not a castle, for what

00:25:58

else did they take them and liquidate them? I also want

00:26:02

to remember that in general,

00:26:04

conceptually speaking, and now there is a noise there,

00:26:06

that conceptually this is about a breakthrough, this is a

00:26:08

transition There and so on Well, let's

00:26:11

open it, we just don't have to go far, just

00:26:14

like now in the circular economy,

00:26:16

there is now a lot of noise with the

00:26:18

word circular and a circular

00:26:21

economy incorrectly translated. Well, open our

00:26:23

energy production cycles of the

00:26:25

forties, get our professors in

00:26:27

the West, please get professor of

00:26:29

philosophical Baransky that this is

00:26:31

How it works How it is implemented here

00:26:32

and here you can go far to raise the

00:26:35

work of the Klaver Academy, respectively

00:26:39

Yagodina, by the way, who was a

00:26:41

wonderful minister for us, the Minister of

00:26:43

Higher Education or the German

00:26:45

scientist Wolf Hefel Heive, or more

00:26:48

precisely, which is the 90s

00:26:51

concept, by the way Many of which our

00:26:54

scientists were also divided called n-ees

00:26:56

independent horizontal integral

00:26:58

integral energy systems

00:27:00

complex translation Everything is just four

00:27:02

parallel systems electricity heat

00:27:05

hydrogen And there it means methanol Maybe there is some

00:27:08

other gas and he says that

00:27:10

these are equal systems there is no need

00:27:12

to pray for one God, here are 4-5 lines

00:27:16

that you come here you need

00:27:18

hydrogen collected from here hydrogen with

00:27:20

accumulated used further

00:27:22

other systems move This is an idea that

00:27:25

flashed like this in 90 years and then it was

00:27:27

buried because it was not needed at

00:27:30

all for such real

00:27:32

practical purposes No it is implemented

00:27:35

there to one degree or another in

00:27:37

our large factories

00:27:38

Oskol Lipetsk Magnitka Cherepovets

00:27:41

Novokuznetsk then look at the

00:27:43

factory systems there everything is intertwined

00:27:45

compressed air steam 16 pressures exaggerating

00:27:49

eight pressures 8 pressures up to Argon

00:27:53

means other inert gases oxygen of

00:27:57

varying degrees of purity nitrogen everything

00:27:59

is intertwined everything moves Everything is one Everything

00:28:01

works for a complex called which is

00:28:03

delivered Brilliant solutions that were

00:28:06

previously taught to students now Even in our country

00:28:08

these complex systems are going out of

00:28:11

circulation, simple solutions

00:28:13

are being imposed, this is the ideology of

00:28:16

just such circuit solutions that

00:28:18

need to be continued

00:28:21

such a question because suddenly

00:28:23

completely so let's say

00:28:26

the problem of the hydrogen Strategy in Russia has become actualized.

00:28:29

Again they talk a lot, again

00:28:32

some strange people have appeared who dream of

00:28:35

organizing trade in green

00:28:37

certificates and they are located

00:28:39

not far from the Ministry of Energy

00:28:41

called the Russian Energy

00:28:43

Agency

00:28:44

unexpectedly received the right what is this

00:28:47

called variadization of green

00:28:49

certificates

00:28:51

I may be something- I don’t understand what

00:28:55

Green generation is, generation

00:28:57

using solar wind power plants,

00:28:59

electricity is generated and goes into the

00:29:01

network.

00:29:02

How can I take from the network

00:29:06

only the electrons that are generated by the

00:29:09

solar panel? Will the

00:29:12

rest of the electrons have Passports? No, there will be no

00:29:15

physical meaning; this procedure

00:29:17

has no meaning, but it is for us I like it, we

00:29:19

will be engaged in its implementation, we

00:29:21

will all have fun, that is, not only do

00:29:23

we have

00:29:24

large solar wind panels,

00:29:27

solar power plants are being built under the

00:29:30

CDA program, an agreement to provide

00:29:32

power for 7 years, the investor must

00:29:35

receive the money back, taking into account the rate

00:29:37

of financing from the Central Bank, they are

00:29:39

raking in money from the entire market in order for

00:29:42

the investor to feel good, taking into

00:29:43

account how much our

00:29:45

refinancing rate is for 7 years, we need to return

00:29:47

not 100%, but

00:29:49

150-160 180 180

00:29:53

in the energy industry unexpectedly received the

00:29:56

same

00:29:57

turnover of investment investments as the

00:30:00

light industry, we decided so

00:30:02

Now we are also coming up with green

00:30:04

certificates then there is not only that

00:30:05

the company that built the wind

00:30:08

power plant receives an increased

00:30:09

payment from the market, it is also considered to be trading,

00:30:12

trading in who knows what. An

00:30:14

excellent program. I think that the

00:30:17

Russian Energy Agency will have

00:30:19

great success in this field, unless, of

00:30:21

course, it fails to restore it. It

00:30:23

seems to me that your monograph

00:30:26

will have to be translated from scientific language

00:30:30

so let's say popular science If you

00:30:32

If you bless me for this work

00:30:35

I will try to make such a series of

00:30:37

programs to tell what

00:30:40

actually is not only

00:30:42

renewable energy sources of

00:30:44

individual hydrogen separately but their

00:30:46

configuration But what can this transform the

00:30:48

economy of A what will this cost in

00:30:52

our nature because such simple

00:30:55

arithmetic for the production of one

00:30:56

kilogram of hydrogen requires 9 liters of

00:30:59

distilled water, this is how much

00:31:02

Excuse me if we are talking about river water,

00:31:04

how much should it take 18

00:31:13

[music]

00:31:15

everything else there yes this all solves the issue

00:31:18

with millions of tons sea salt that will be

00:31:20

laid along the coast, and so on and so

00:31:22

on That is, of course, there are many questions,

00:31:24

we are asking you to bless you. You and I

00:31:27

will develop this together,

00:31:30

of course we need to call, I think also Professor

00:31:31

Konoplyanik Andrei Aleksandrovich, who is so

00:31:33

very alive and so in his head a

00:31:35

well-built concept

00:31:38

was just to move step by step, what is

00:31:40

here, what is here, what clusters could be

00:31:42

developed and moved. Then it was

00:31:43

not completely reflected in

00:31:47

government documents, but that does

00:31:48

n’t mean anything. Well, I didn’t find it now, it’s coming

00:31:51

later, the world is changing, life is changing now from everyone

00:31:54

really one of those who proposed

00:31:57

changing the hydrogen production technology

00:32:00

from legal reform to peroriz, which does

00:32:02

not produce carbon dioxide at the output,

00:32:05

which must be disposed of somewhere,

00:32:07

as a side effect of a chemical

00:32:09

reaction, they give solid carbon for

00:32:12

disposal once a week, it is needed from shovels

00:32:15

that pour soot into bags this is where it all

00:32:17

ends, the

00:32:18

concept of

00:32:20

Andrei Konoplyanik did not require

00:32:23

mockery of our gas

00:32:25

pipelines, it was completely

00:32:28

logical. True, it was designed for those

00:32:31

years when Europe had not yet fully

00:32:33

trained,

00:32:34

now it is very good, they say

00:32:38

the series I really didn’t watch it, they were

00:32:40

responsible And they lived for the wall is such a high

00:32:43

wall and I am somewhat surprised

00:32:44

to discover that European states

00:32:46

are funding the Construction of fences on the

00:32:48

border with Russia,

00:32:50

that is, they, unlike me, watched the series

00:32:52

and decided that since we taught it,

00:32:54

we should civilize ourselves in Russia and

00:32:57

do what we want behind the wall.

00:33:00

But But However,

00:33:04

our gas pipeline projects have not ended; we have

00:33:08

several of them in development at once; this is the strength of

00:33:11

Siberia two and the reversal of the

00:33:13

main gas pipeline of Central Asia

00:33:15

from the center in the reverse direction. Another whole

00:33:17

series. That is, it may be if in those

00:33:20

countries that are ready

00:33:21

to cooperate with us some will appear. then green

00:33:24

hydrogen ideas maybe this will be

00:33:28

in demand.

00:33:30

I think that it will certainly be

00:33:31

in demand. Even the

00:33:34

countries of Southeast Asia have already shown interests in this. It’s a

00:33:36

slightly different game. Yes, if we

00:33:38

learned how to build a thermal power plant well that

00:33:40

provides heat and electricity for a second

00:33:42

with an efficiency of 80 percent yes yes

00:33:46

you can also do even more there, yoga needs

00:33:49

electricity and cold, fresh water,

00:33:52

and such things seem to be like in the Emirates, they have

00:33:56

set themselves there; in fact, there are still a

00:33:58

lot of limits to perfection

00:33:59

because a summit with Africa has just taken place,

00:34:02

where there is also a problem with water and

00:34:05

cold are the main thing for a second,

00:34:07

but if you look at the efficiency of the

00:34:09

evaporation and desalination systems of the

00:34:12

Emirates and Qatar, well, we just need to

00:34:14

remember to say one simple figure:

00:34:16

Moscow 13 million 50 billion kW hours and Qatar

00:34:21

Emirates

00:34:24

barely 10 million and 100 million kW hours for a

00:34:28

second, twice as much as Moscow,

00:34:31

which is one and a half times

00:34:32

larger in population, and accordingly, this is the

00:34:35

efficiency of what is all there, this is

00:34:37

how it works, as

00:34:39

they did then, it’s possible differently Let’s

00:34:41

think Let’s calculate what it will be

00:34:43

for Gan and Senegal Burkina Faso Egypt

00:34:46

what will it be for

00:34:48

Kuala Lumpur somewhere, roll up another

00:34:50

game there Yes, and in general this raises a lot of

00:34:53

interesting problems Well, I was built under

00:34:55

the regime, I think that putting things in order is

00:34:57

necessary first in the house in the yard, then

00:34:58

going out into the street

00:35:02

growing up in Central Asia it doesn’t

00:35:04

stop there, the population is growing and

00:35:07

problems with water are growing, and he

00:35:10

watches this with alarm, soon the state of the

00:35:12

glaciers

00:35:14

has grown significantly, the plant system

00:35:16

built in Soviet times

00:35:18

is in some way to launch

00:35:20

new techniques there, drip irrigation

00:35:22

or something else is also missing, so it

00:35:24

may be

00:35:26

that Before solving problems with

00:35:30

boom-puram

00:35:32

and the wonderful state of Niger,

00:35:34

maybe we still need to find all possible

00:35:37

promising mutually beneficial

00:35:39

options for cooperation with our former

00:35:42

Central Asian republics and independent

00:35:44

states of Central Asia, if only

00:35:47

because the border with Kazakhstan is

00:35:48

7800 km and India Pakistan

00:35:54

Thailand and even Singapore they are a little

00:35:57

further than Kazakhstan

00:35:58

can be from here to start because well,

00:36:01

this is really a problem for all

00:36:04

five

00:36:06

states already for a reason, in

00:36:09

Kyrgyzstan an

00:36:10

emergency situation has been declared in the

00:36:12

electric power industry, a problem with

00:36:14

water supply has arisen even in Bishkek,

00:36:17

maybe Don’t go so far away maybe maybe

00:36:19

our technology can be

00:36:20

gradually introduced in those countries where the demand is

00:36:23

greatest, but it won’t be. It

00:36:26

seems to me that the construction program

00:36:30

[music]

00:36:35

yes, let’s sum it up with this.

00:36:38

Indeed, we see the colossal

00:36:41

relevance of all these tasks and they are important

00:36:43

for our regions cold warm

00:36:45

different windy and with water without coastal ones

00:36:49

and no, of course, this whole task

00:36:52

is reliable energy supply, moving

00:36:54

forward, moving around cities, moving

00:36:58

to the east, now they are extremely

00:37:00

important for themselves along the way. We are ready to take on

00:37:04

various other tasks in this sense,

00:37:05

no doubt No, well, move

00:37:08

forward based on science, engineers,

00:37:10

common sense,

00:37:13

we agree Let’s try to

00:37:17

present your analysis with a truly

00:37:21

scientific analysis of what hydrogen is,

00:37:25

renewable sources in the energy system.

00:37:27

What their combination gives, what this

00:37:29

combination takes away,

00:37:31

and so that understanding arises and

00:37:34

so that

00:37:35

our some skepticism of

00:37:39

Russia’s hydrogen strategy does not seem

00:37:42

something surprising. We all- Still, we are based on

00:37:45

calculations that show that

00:37:47

if Russia needs something, it’s definitely not this

00:37:49

for now. Well, Russia. How is drought different everywhere?

00:37:54

And we always have a glass of water in Baikal

00:37:58

in reserve. Thank

00:38:01

you for taking the time to look in.

00:38:04

Thank you viewers for your attention,

00:38:06

do not forget to subscribe to our channel

00:38:09

Do not forget to distribute our videos on

00:38:11

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00:38:13

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00:38:15

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00:38:17

[music]

Description:

Борис Марцинкевич и профессор МЭИ Евгений Гашо подробно рассказывают о всех перекосах и проблемах, которые несет в себе производство водорода. ТГ-канал «Точка сборки» — https://t.me/aurora_technology Дзен «Точка сборки» — https://dzen.ru/assemblage_point Вконтакте «Точка сборки» — https://vk.com/point_assemblage Rutube «Точка сборки» — https://rutube.ru/channel/30805971/

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