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Владимир Лепехин

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00:00:00

[applause]

00:00:13

Hello comrades, on the air of Radio

00:00:15

Aurora, political commentator Fyodor Biryukov is at the microphone

00:00:17

And in our studio

00:00:19

we have Vladimir Anatolyevich Lepekhin, deputy of

00:00:22

the State Duma of the first convocation, director of

00:00:24

the institute, rector of the School of Solidarity

00:00:27

Economics and Politics Hello,

00:00:29

Vladimir the

00:00:30

good de and we continue the series of programs about the

00:00:33

philosophy of Russian Freedom about the same

00:00:36

solidary economy solidary society

00:00:39

Russian anarchism as it really is

00:00:42

and not what our

00:00:45

viewers, listeners and fellow citizens in general think about it

00:00:48

and Let's talk today about the crisis of the

00:00:51

state Yes, like the state

00:00:53

that we have is not some kind of ideal But

00:00:55

this specifically, which

00:00:58

is called Russia,

00:01:00

maybe we could compare the crisis of our

00:01:03

national state with other

00:01:05

states. And of course, about throwing

00:01:08

bridges that will help overcome these

00:01:10

crisis

00:01:13

phenomena, let’s say a

00:01:17

week ago there was a terrible

00:01:20

terrorist attack on Crocus City Holly, so we spent the whole

00:01:24

week essentially analyzing it in one way or another

00:01:27

ve this is also

00:01:31

evidence of a crisis in both society and the

00:01:33

state. Well, I would say not even

00:01:36

a crisis, this is in

00:01:37

many ways a dead end in the development of

00:01:40

Russian statehood in general, so

00:01:44

I didn’t express my point of view Yes,

00:01:46

about this terrorist attack. Although

00:01:48

I gave several posts in the telegram, rather questions to

00:01:52

Well, people who subscribed to they

00:01:55

thought about it, yes Because I’ll

00:01:58

say it’s complicated because I think it’s

00:02:02

very important from the point of view of understanding Yes the

00:02:04

nature of these terrorist attacks and so on. I’ll start

00:02:08

with the fact that we have, as it were, two stages in the

00:02:12

terrorist attacks that began to occur in

00:02:14

Russia in the mid-nineties. Well, that

00:02:16

is, when it began The Chechen war is

00:02:18

one of the methods of war, let’s say the

00:02:21

Chechen side against Russia, Russia did

00:02:23

n’t use terrorist attacks, they used a

00:02:26

lot; it was the first stage of 2014, why

00:02:31

before 2014 I’ll tell you later, but

00:02:37

there were about a dozen terrorist attacks, I

00:02:41

even counted it on purpose; I’m preparing a

00:02:43

publication tomorrow, it will be published I’m on

00:02:45

boost about this, Yes, here’s a general assessment of

00:02:48

the terrorist attacks, that is, in fact, we were

00:02:50

offered Russia a separate Parallel

00:02:54

terrorist war against Russia within the

00:02:57

framework of the

00:03:01

proposal of the Russian people and the Russians in the

00:03:03

first place, in which Well,

00:03:08

Chechen militants were used, and since

00:03:10

ninety-five, when We remember there

00:03:12

was the Budenovsky hostage-taking, where

00:03:15

many people died, but in general. So

00:03:17

in Beslan in

00:03:19

Budenovka, that means plane explosions,

00:03:23

Domodedovo explosion in the metro, and so on and so on,

00:03:26

you know how many mostly

00:03:28

Muscovites died, of course, yes, in general, Russian

00:03:31

ordinary citizens, about 1200 people

00:03:35

died and

00:03:38

about 2,700

00:03:41

people were wounded, that is, a huge figure. Yes, this is

00:03:45

a figure that in many ways even

00:03:51

correlated, for example, with the bombing of

00:03:55

Yugoslavia. Yes, we know how the

00:03:58

whole people feel about this, too, and essentially the war of

00:04:01

NATO against Yugoslavia, and so it

00:04:06

happened little by little in Russia when a huge a number of

00:04:07

people were simply killed, but that means

00:04:12

until 2014 it was like an internal

00:04:16

internal war and the enemy was

00:04:20

absolutely clear. That is, no one

00:04:21

hid the Chechens, they captured Nor Dost, everything was

00:04:24

there. They clearly put forward demands, and so

00:04:26

on and so forth, it’s like our

00:04:28

internal Russian case Well, despite the fact

00:04:31

that, of course, the Chechens were helped by

00:04:33

both the West and such a radical Islamist yogi

00:04:37

And in 2014, when the first terrorist attack

00:04:41

was carried out against

00:04:43

Russians in Odessa When an

00:04:46

unknown number of people were killed, people were burned,

00:04:49

and then the so-called counter-terrorist operation

00:04:51

anti-terrorist ato

00:04:53

Yes, in the Donbass, in fact, this is a

00:04:54

terrorist organization that is like

00:04:56

all these

00:04:58

nationalities there, it’s already kind of

00:05:01

pointless to count, but this is no longer an internal

00:05:03

matter. It has become an

00:05:05

international matter, and that is, from this a

00:05:07

whole line has already grown,

00:05:09

such as Western Russophobia as the Key

00:05:13

Direction or one of the key

00:05:14

directions of the third world war is the

00:05:16

destruction of the Russian people

00:05:17

through various terrorist attacks, that’s where

00:05:20

the organizer is incomprehensible.

00:05:23

Yeah, the customer is incomprehensible. Yes, there are no demands, but

00:05:27

someone drops a Boeing over the Donbass,

00:05:29

blames the Russians, that means someone

00:05:33

is blowing up the northern streams, like we

00:05:35

blew it up ourselves, and finally here Crocus City Yes,

00:05:40

and now it is clear that there is some kind of

00:05:42

official version. Working. It is quite

00:05:45

simple, that there are Chechen migrants behind

00:05:47

them, Ukrainians are speaking out, other versions are expressed,

00:05:50

that there, well, these migrants are Tajiks.

00:05:53

What did I say, Chechens, and I’m sorry, Chechens,

00:05:56

I’m sorry, and how the media celebrate this

00:05:58

unit Akhmat

00:06:00

Fathers that

00:06:02

means, and it’s clear that it’s starting to differ,

00:06:06

some say harsh statements towards

00:06:08

migrants, others, like Timati, on the contrary,

00:06:10

call for people

00:06:12

not to be judged based on their nationality. Yes, a

00:06:16

lot of versions

00:06:17

are being expressed, which means Well, I just

00:06:19

want to say that in fact the Benefit of the

00:06:21

recipients The benefit of the acquirers of this terrorist

00:06:23

attack, there are about a

00:06:26

dozen of them first of all, if you look for the

00:06:30

culprits, then there are also a dozen and a half of them, that

00:06:32

is, everyone is to blame, either direct participation

00:06:35

or means no interference or

00:06:38

indirect assistance, and so on and so forth, here is

00:06:40

the structure of this international

00:06:41

terrorist attack, this terrorist attack, unlike all

00:06:44

Chechen ones, it is international

00:06:45

transnational, so the customer is

00:06:47

located It’s

00:06:49

far away, well, it’s also far away

00:06:53

because there seem to be several customers,

00:06:56

there are three main

00:06:58

levels, such terrorist attacks are organized, and there are

00:07:01

only three main levels of customers. Not to

00:07:03

mention the intermediaries, who

00:07:06

solve all sorts of operational,

00:07:07

tactical problems, and so on. That is, there is a

00:07:10

political customer, a

00:07:12

strategic one. it is impossible to calculate it absolutely accurately

00:07:16

further through the system of

00:07:19

attracting performers at this level.

00:07:21

Yes, an operation is already being prepared and this

00:07:24

operation of a specific operation has its own

00:07:26

customer, already

00:07:28

tactical, here you can somehow guess

00:07:30

if you manage to get out, but the fact is that at

00:07:32

this level all the

00:07:34

performers who as if having carried out a

00:07:36

terrorist attack, they go somewhere else there, they wouldn’t

00:07:39

get there if, well, it’s clear according to the logic of

00:07:42

this order, that’s why a huge

00:07:45

number of forces and groups are involved in this,

00:07:47

and from my point of view, to

00:07:52

establish, so to speak, absolutely

00:07:54

exactly who is the customer

00:07:58

it is impossible for the performer,

00:08:00

that is, only the tail can be

00:08:01

felt by those who ran there

00:08:03

directly in this hall, which is why

00:08:05

such a complex structure.

00:08:08

But it is clear

00:08:11

that the conditions are favorable in our

00:08:14

country. Well, favorable conditions in such a negative

00:08:17

way have developed for this in our country

00:08:19

because in recent years the system

00:08:21

state administration Well, we see that

00:08:24

the security forces are not working, there are not enough people, yes, that

00:08:29

is, people find themselves in a situation

00:08:31

where genocide continues, the

00:08:32

terrorist war continues,

00:08:34

ordinary

00:08:36

Muscovites are dying, uh, but now we see in

00:08:41

3 days, all the security forces have already been washed,

00:08:44

it turns out, uh, the Ministry of Internal Affairs was through 5

00:08:47

minutes Well, how can I say this to the statement of

00:08:51

the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs? Yes, yeah. So the rest have

00:08:54

sharply shown themselves to be tough. Yes, there are

00:08:57

ear cuts of something else,

00:09:00

so on and so forth, that is, well, like

00:09:04

in 2004, no one answered for the fact that

00:09:07

the militants arrived calmly before Beslan, but

00:09:10

apparently now no one

00:09:11

will answer why it happened that

00:09:14

thousands of people were absolutely defenseless,

00:09:20

well, I’m not even talking about the migration

00:09:22

policy, which everyone

00:09:28

nods at, it’s not

00:09:29

a problem, it’s not that it will be solved, that it

00:09:31

will be solved at all,

00:09:33

that is, some ostentatious

00:09:35

events it seems like they will do it again through a

00:09:38

stump deck like this when Well, maybe the

00:09:41

visa regime is being implemented in relation to

00:09:44

some country there. Yes, Tajikistan or

00:09:47

Uzbekistan, some other showy

00:09:49

events related to the fact that passports are

00:09:52

not issued, some new difficulties

00:09:54

I can think of in view of

00:09:57

permanent residence Well, it is

00:10:00

not yet clear that the country Well, or our our

00:10:04

government, our

00:10:05

elites want and can Yes, these problems are

00:10:09

solved, that is, the people Again, they are

00:10:12

in such a state that you just need to be

00:10:14

more careful at any moment or there will be

00:10:17

some kind of terrorist attack in the subway will lie in wait there or go

00:10:20

to a concert, something could happen there,

00:10:24

even at home no one will

00:10:28

kill everyone, we hope that

00:10:31

the authorities may be brought in after all and

00:10:34

will begin to consistently solve at least the

00:10:36

most pressing problems;

00:10:38

practice shows that terrorism

00:10:41

operates in the most different countries with

00:10:43

different political systems with different

00:10:45

economies, we can recall the largest

00:10:48

terrorist attacks in the same United States, which were

00:10:51

followed by some

00:10:53

local wars there, but one way or another, in

00:10:55

no country, while maintaining the current ones,

00:11:00

no one is insured like

00:11:03

this wrote in her blogs the gift of

00:11:06

our Mitina Yes, our comrade-in-arms in Aurora, there are no terrorist attacks

00:11:09

only in the people’s

00:11:11

Korea. Well, it’s clear that no one is

00:11:14

insured, but look, it’s not by chance that I

00:11:16

gave an example with the Chechens, I named a

00:11:19

large number of figures. Yes, the dead and

00:11:24

wounded, as a rule, this is an internal

00:11:28

matter of the Russian Federation against the government, which, for example,

00:11:31

somewhere has gone too far. But in

00:11:36

relation to Russia, the

00:11:39

Americans and the British and the

00:11:43

Europeans and Israel have put in a huge amount of force, and so on, and

00:11:46

radical Islamists. Well, a huge

00:11:48

amount of force. Yes, this has already grown into

00:11:51

some kind of systemic war of terrorism

00:11:53

against The Russian

00:11:54

Federation therefore So many

00:11:58

terrorist attacks in the village on the one hand and with

00:12:01

so many dead Well, I don’t

00:12:03

know, probably there are no such countries on

00:12:06

the planet today, and moreover, well, as it

00:12:10

were, such terrorist attacks

00:12:13

are carried out against our country

00:12:14

that may not

00:12:16

directly affect life people but have a

00:12:18

colossal international resonance Well, for

00:12:21

example, this is what Britain is doing Yes,

00:12:24

Navalny creaked There and so on and so forth There are

00:12:26

also terrorist attacks but they blame Russia Yes,

00:12:29

this

00:12:30

brings colossal harm to the reputation of the Russian Federation,

00:12:33

plus the same

00:12:35

Boeing and other huge number of

00:12:38

special operations against

00:12:42

Russia Therefore, with this means that something needs to be

00:12:45

done, that is, to bring the country into

00:12:47

such a

00:12:48

state that you understood that we have not

00:12:51

only a special military operation going on,

00:12:53

but against the Vedas it’s just a hybrid war, a

00:12:57

terrorist

00:12:59

war, on the part of a huge number of

00:13:01

interested state structures, and

00:13:04

so on, and that’s why should be

00:13:07

Well, on the First, as

00:13:09

if first of all, the mobilization of the entire

00:13:13

system of public

00:13:16

administration of all power structures Yes, they are still

00:13:20

relaxed, that is, theirs is going on,

00:13:22

they are all relaxed, a

00:13:24

terrorist war is underway They are all

00:13:25

relaxed, that is, they are dealing with

00:13:27

solving some other issues

00:13:30

No When is the rooster fried peck when

00:13:32

the president gives some kind of instruction

00:13:35

Well, it looks like

00:13:36

they ran. But since no one is

00:13:40

motivated, well, simple things, I’ll

00:13:42

give an example, so in 2002, when

00:13:47

in October there was a Nordic attack on

00:13:51

Dubrovka, I worked as the head of the

00:13:54

analytical directorate of Channel One and

00:13:59

every week they gave an

00:14:01

analytical orientation. Yeah, for the next week,

00:14:04

what should be expected in the country, that is, and

00:14:06

actually

00:14:07

cover it. So in 5 days, on Friday,

00:14:12

we released this orientation,

00:14:14

5 days before that, we released an

00:14:17

orientation there, well, all the events in the country

00:14:19

in world and so on, that means people come from different

00:14:22

socio-political programs and take

00:14:23

this guidance and

00:14:25

use the program with Posner there is a

00:14:27

program Time and so on Further So that

00:14:30

means I still have

00:14:32

this guidance where it was written that

00:14:34

next week an increased

00:14:36

theoretical danger is expected in Moscow and the

00:14:38

Moscow region, and according to all sorts of

00:14:40

insider data and so on, it means, taking into

00:14:43

account some kind of analysis, most likely,

00:14:46

or maybe

00:14:48

Chechen militants will seize some

00:14:52

sensitive object, either a

00:14:55

children's camp in the Moscow region or a school

00:14:57

in Moscow, and so on and so on,

00:14:59

that is,

00:15:00

Why at the

00:15:02

non-force level Yes, a simple analyst

00:15:07

makes such conclusions and gives a

00:15:10

forecast, which means now 3 days before

00:15:14

this terrorist attack is the last My article there

00:15:17

on the boost where it seemed to be dedicated to the

00:15:19

demographic problem, but at the beginning

00:15:22

it describes what What will happen after

00:15:24

elections Yes, within the framework of this genocide in the

00:15:27

year of the family, genocide of the Russian people, what

00:15:30

will happen?

00:15:31

Think about it, in 3 days, a terrorist attack

00:15:35

means how our services work, these

00:15:37

strategic analytical ones and

00:15:39

so on, etc. Well, it’s absolutely clear

00:15:42

that there are these sites when there is a

00:15:45

special military operation Yes there are

00:15:47

a number of sites that are very

00:15:49

sensitive for people and

00:15:50

attractive for

00:15:52

terrorists, yes for Well, it’s clear if they

00:15:55

attack Belgorod there they are moving in the

00:15:57

direction of Kursk-Bryans and so on,

00:16:02

then there are no guarantees that

00:16:06

such an opportunity will not be used for the Kroku

00:16:09

- this is one of the most tidbits he

00:16:12

should somehow must be protected under the

00:16:14

supervision of the police There are the National Guard and so

00:16:17

on, well, it’s

00:16:18

obvious But the same thing happens all at once,

00:16:21

in Beslan, in Nordo, in

00:16:25

Roku City, the same thing everywhere, that is, the

00:16:33

system of power, that is, does not mobilize with varnishes after a fight in any way people are being bent in

00:16:35

different

00:16:36

directions by management structures but

00:16:38

they themselves are not mobilizing. Here's how to

00:16:42

do this, on whom it depends. Well, it's clear

00:16:43

on whom it

00:16:46

depends, so if

00:16:48

we imagine, let's move into the area of

00:16:51

idealism, there are free Federations

00:16:53

that, of course, have

00:16:56

security services of some kind of army

00:16:59

units there. on any basis

00:17:02

and if there is information that somewhere

00:17:05

in some region a

00:17:08

terrorist cell is being formed, it is

00:17:10

going to do this and that,

00:17:11

naturally it all means taking measures

00:17:14

or

00:17:16

preventing a terrorist attack or something similar,

00:17:18

or promptly resisting there

00:17:21

at least yes, without

00:17:23

bureaucratic delays. And it

00:17:26

turns out that it is

00:17:28

not only the Russian state, but

00:17:30

others or malicious

00:17:44

systems that cannot be resolved. But we see that on

00:17:48

the contrary, it is precisely this cumbersomeness of the

00:17:52

bureaucratic apparatus for

00:17:57

recording that

00:17:59

solves these

00:18:01

issues, it turns out

00:18:03

that while maintaining the current order

00:18:06

as a whole that is, the supremacy of the ruling

00:18:08

bureaucracy of the high bureaucracy of capitalists and

00:18:11

so on, these issues cannot be solved, there will always

00:18:15

be thugs who will be

00:18:17

hired to kill a lot of

00:18:20

people always under any

00:18:22

system. Well, I don’t agree that under any

00:18:24

system the fact of the matter is that you need to

00:18:26

understand the current system which

00:18:27

has developed

00:18:29

in modern Russia,

00:18:32

a number of favorable conditions have been formed

00:18:35

precisely for the fact that you can

00:18:37

enter someone’s school with impunity with a weapon and

00:18:39

kill schoolchildren, or

00:18:44

commit such terrorist attacks, I’ll just name a few

00:18:46

factors, but firstly, a very strong

00:18:48

disunity between the authorities and the people Yes, these are two

00:18:51

different

00:18:52

substances, what this leads to is that the

00:18:55

authorities, by and large, have no motivation to

00:18:59

deal with the population, to protect them,

00:19:01

for example, and other motivations in

00:19:05

relation to ordinary citizens, namely, so that a

00:19:08

flow of budget taxes comes from them, so that

00:19:12

they show loyalty and do not interfere

00:19:14

where it is not necessary somehow they worked there and so on and

00:19:16

so forth, they didn’t ask questions. Well, that

00:19:18

is, such a set means Therefore, people are

00:19:24

defenseless in such a

00:19:27

current situation. Next, the second thing is migration

00:19:29

policy. It leads to the fact that there is a

00:19:32

huge number of

00:19:36

potential performers Yes, who

00:19:38

can be recruited and thrown into

00:19:40

anything means conduct such radical Propaganda among them

00:19:44

and so on and so

00:19:46

forth, here's the third

00:19:48

factor Elite in what state it is

00:19:50

second

00:19:52

citizenship please have a second

00:19:54

citizenship Do what you want remain

00:19:57

in your post as an official

00:19:59

Well, it’s clear that

00:20:01

this matter was canceled for senior officials, but in

00:20:05

general the deputies there are different levels Yes, and

00:20:09

lower level officials,

00:20:11

businessmen, second citizenship, no

00:20:13

problem. But who is this really? The

00:20:15

Fifth Column, that is, people who

00:20:18

can be controlled Yes, through real estate,

00:20:20

property that does not have

00:20:22

abroad and nothing happens to it, that

00:20:24

is, these are the factors a huge

00:20:27

number, let’s say some

00:20:29

self-governing Federations. Well, for example, the

00:20:31

subjects of the Federation are beginning to somehow

00:20:46

self-determinate the powers to resolve

00:20:48

some federal issues, but if

00:20:50

they had the opportunity, for example, to

00:20:52

close the borders of some En

00:20:55

region for migrants, they would remove one factor.

00:20:57

Or, for example, they could

00:21:01

form themselves authorities, they would remove

00:21:03

another negative factor. But since

00:21:06

we don’t have those, this separation of regions

00:21:09

goes towards feudalization but not towards

00:21:13

self-government. That’s why Well,

00:21:17

maybe even to a greater extent this

00:21:19

process of feudalization and which is in no way

00:21:21

connected with self-government of saza and so on

00:21:24

further and so on, it becomes one

00:21:27

factor in order to

00:21:29

carry out some kind of terrorist attacks there, that is, not only in

00:21:31

Moscow, but also in the regions, which is why we need to

00:21:35

understand in general how the state of power is structured in our country today

00:21:38

and

00:21:40

why Russia has become not just

00:21:43

a target but just a few

00:21:46

sights They are converging in focus Yes, in

00:21:50

Russia, that is, the sight of some American ones there

00:21:52

means racist Nazis means

00:21:56

Russophobes there Britain again, different

00:21:59

European countries and

00:22:02

Ukraine, maybe some radical

00:22:05

Islamists are dissatisfied with the way Russia is

00:22:08

pursuing its foreign policy arena

00:22:10

at the same time Well, too, Many believe

00:22:13

that Israel is

00:22:15

interested in some kind of radicalization of

00:22:17

the situation. Because there are views on Russia

00:22:19

on the one hand, on the other hand there is

00:22:21

dissatisfaction that we supported Hamas there.

00:22:22

Well, we mean our government, therefore,

00:22:25

Well, a huge

00:22:27

number of these very

00:22:31

subjective who, even if they do not

00:22:33

participate in organizing a terrorist attack against

00:22:36

Russia, are happy with how it is

00:22:38

happening, so globally it is necessary to

00:22:40

Realize that this is not a one-time

00:22:43

action. It is clear that it cannot

00:22:46

happen every day, even every

00:22:48

month, because preparation is required;

00:22:50

readjustment there is an

00:22:52

assessment of how it happened, let’s say in

00:22:56

this time, to take into account the mistakes there,

00:22:58

organize uh if there is some kind of

00:23:01

reason Yes, the next action Well, a

00:23:05

couple of such terrorist attacks a year Well, it’s

00:23:09

quite significant for the uh

00:23:12

atmosphere in the country and for the well-being of

00:23:14

ordinary citizens because well, how long

00:23:16

can this

00:23:18

continue you said about local

00:23:21

self-government But over the past 30

00:23:24

years, local self-government has practically emerged

00:23:27

from nothing;

00:23:28

these same references to local self-government

00:23:32

have been preserved in some old laws. And

00:23:34

in fact, it does not exist, but its revival,

00:23:38

its creation on, as it were, new rails

00:23:41

of relevance, this is what including a recipe for

00:23:44

ensuring security through

00:23:57

solidarity,

00:24:00

if the regional authorities feel that

00:24:01

the Federal authorities do not protect the regions

00:24:04

Yes, the Armed Forces do not set such a task, the Armed Forces hang on

00:24:06

them on the regional authorities, they simply

00:24:08

reproduce this management scheme,

00:24:11

what is happening on a national scale

00:24:13

in their region, that is, self

00:24:15

-government is still no, they don’t

00:24:17

need people in the region anyway, they protect their own

00:24:19

elite regionally, so

00:24:22

what’s going on in the regions? Well, in

00:24:27

Tatarstan,

00:24:32

the administration will jointly create some kind of

00:24:34

paramilitary

00:24:36

unit with large corporations, not only so that

00:24:39

if terrorists

00:24:41

somehow way in this region they are starting to

00:24:43

act so that the authorities are ready to

00:24:44

repel attacks Well, including for the

00:24:47

invasion, you are this very region of some

00:24:50

competitive

00:24:52

groups,

00:25:00

the people are not participating anywhere, they are not

00:25:02

in demand at all As such Note that

00:25:05

here we are watching, for example, a terrorist attack

00:25:06

is happening How our people are behaving, our

00:25:08

people are behaving quite

00:25:11

decently, that is, there are no hysterics there,

00:25:13

that means, and so on, that is,

00:25:16

the People, well, someone is being saved, someone is

00:25:18

taking measures to save others Yes,

00:25:23

[the music] is preserved

00:25:27

regarding Yes, and so on and so forth further That

00:25:30

is, Well,

00:25:32

accordingly, these are the actions

00:25:35

associated

00:25:40

with Well, there is blood donation there, then this

00:25:46

means, as it were, dedicated to the memory of

00:25:48

the victims, and so on and so on,

00:25:50

how again our people are

00:25:52

initiative, organized sincerely, and so on

00:25:55

and so on That is Well, if

00:25:58

only we should work with our people, they

00:26:01

will move mountains or not interfere with the people’s own

00:26:04

work. Well, work and not interfere

00:26:06

with them, and so on. That is, give them the

00:26:08

opportunity

00:26:09

for free activity Yes creative,

00:26:13

but it turns out the other way around, that is, this is a

00:26:17

division that is not only

00:26:19

social between the authorities and the population

00:26:22

that has happened over the past 30 years.

00:26:24

It is already such a deep

00:26:27

mental

00:26:28

society, that is, in

00:26:31

essence, it means parents and children are elites. Yes,

00:26:34

which are closed in a variety of

00:26:37

formats. Yes, and in the field of education they

00:26:38

create their own enclaves there and in the field of

00:26:40

healthcare their enclaves and so on

00:26:43

and so forth That's

00:26:45

all the rest, even the system of law,

00:26:50

it's segregated

00:27:06

sneezed for 8 years, well, that

00:27:09

is, an amazing

00:27:12

situation when we are constantly talking about

00:27:15

consolidating unity and so on, at the

00:27:17

same time there is a continuation of

00:27:19

this very divergence, two

00:27:27

icebreakers of revolutionaries, a traditional

00:27:30

state before our eyes

00:27:31

transforms, if it doesn’t die, it

00:27:33

turns into a completely different

00:27:37

entity, or turns into several entities

00:27:40

for now Well, it’s as if this

00:27:43

fragmentation of power is imperceptible Well, we

00:27:45

feel Yes, we feel how this is

00:27:46

happening Yes, fragmentation is already a number of

00:27:48

republics naturally developing

00:27:50

technologies of

00:27:52

self-determination, these technologies at any

00:27:54

moment, well, favorable for them, the moment

00:27:58

can be launched in Chechnya, for example, there

00:28:01

in Tatarstan, the same in some other

00:28:05

republics, but this can be described

00:28:08

as such a self-denying

00:28:11

self-determination because it is clear. They

00:28:14

cannot function as a sovereign

00:28:16

state, which means they will be led by

00:28:18

some other foreign centers Well,

00:28:21

there is a little other, again, motivations,

00:28:23

other patterns operate, there is the concept of a

00:28:26

regional Elite in any region. Yes, the

00:28:29

subject is only a regional Elite. How

00:28:31

Russia retains influence, for example in

00:28:33

Chechnya in Tatarstan, somewhere else it gives

00:28:36

preferences to these elites and pumps in

00:28:38

budget money and therefore in the Smolensk

00:28:42

region the population in the Kostroma region is dying out

00:28:44

the region is dying out and so on, but in

00:28:46

Chechnya it is growing and everything is fine if they

00:28:49

receive a billion a day of this same

00:28:52

money. Now let’s imagine a situation in

00:28:54

which, for example, the Russian center

00:28:58

cannot give Chechnya, for example, a

00:29:02

billion a

00:29:03

day and this flow begins

00:29:07

to decline sharply, but another entity appears

00:29:09

which begins

00:29:12

to feed the regional elite Yes, another source

00:29:15

of funding, what will this

00:29:17

regional Elite do? Of course,

00:29:27

self-determination

00:29:29

by other structures, accordingly,

00:29:32

make some preparations, and then

00:29:34

when it feels that the Federal Center is

00:29:37

so weak that it can no longer

00:29:39

object, and it

00:29:43

will be possible to do without the money of the Federal Center

00:29:45

then you can raise the question

00:29:47

of self-determination Well, this is how it will

00:29:50

happen Therefore

00:29:53

[music]

00:29:57

from the situation in Ukraine

00:30:00

when they thought and were alarmed in the

00:30:03

eighth year of the bombing of Donbass Yes, something

00:30:07

needs to be done about this Although it was possible to

00:30:10

start doing something 20 years

00:30:13

ago without sending

00:30:15

Chernomyrdin there and create a completely different group

00:30:18

at the embassy, start working

00:30:20

with Ukraine as a necessary element of the CSTO

00:30:23

Eurasian Economic Union, and

00:30:26

so on and so on, well, we probably

00:30:30

wouldn’t have gotten 2014 and there was

00:30:32

no need to carry out a special military operation. Do

00:30:34

you think the authorities have drawn some

00:30:38

conclusions from the situation? then Well,

00:30:40

constructive, I’m not sure. We’ll see

00:30:43

when the authorities draw such

00:30:45

global and fundamental conclusions. When will

00:30:47

they begin? When will the decision appear?

00:30:51

Let’s say after the terrorist attack, we are all now

00:30:53

observing what decisions will be

00:30:56

made? People are already writing that most

00:30:59

likely a decision will be made on

00:31:01

mobilization Yes. Under the pretext that

00:31:04

Well, now we have to win, prove to

00:31:05

the world with those who ordered it. Fight and so on

00:31:08

means 300,000 new mobilized

00:31:11

and so on, someone in the Duma is starting to

00:31:14

propose the death

00:31:16

penalty for terrorists. But we already see

00:31:19

that 11 people have been detained and the press is already

00:31:22

writing what this means only in relation to two

00:31:26

have the prospect of life in prison, it is

00:31:30

unclear, that is, the other nine, that

00:31:33

they will not receive life

00:31:35

imprisonment, there is also

00:31:37

such an unspoken tendency that people do not

00:31:41

live long in places of detention similar

00:31:44

to them, that this is already wrong,

00:31:46

illegal methods, but we see that in

00:31:48

our country, for example, Well, some girl there

00:31:51

I don’t remember her surname is a complex surname

00:31:53

which the price tags mean in the store and

00:31:56

instead of these very price tags there are some pieces of paper

00:31:59

with something like that Yes she got 8 years,

00:32:03

I understand if for example she

00:32:08

was awarded some kind of big fine for this the

00:32:11

act is an administrative fine there Let it be the

00:32:14

same 8 million but no it

00:32:17

qualifies

00:32:19

as a criminal

00:32:23

act for which they give 8 years like the

00:32:26

person who committed murder

00:32:29

and rape, that is, the terrorists who

00:32:32

killed 137 people, there are still a hundred wounded

00:32:36

and they are defended by lawyers who ask them to be

00:32:40

released and the court does not take such a

00:32:42

tough position, and well, we are not talking about the

00:32:47

fact that all these same detainees are

00:32:48

involved and so on in life

00:32:50

imprisonment and the prospect of the death

00:32:52

penalty, yes, what are these our deputies

00:32:55

counting on? Who are they going to execute?

00:32:59

Those who write

00:33:01

peace to the world Probably they don’t even think about it

00:33:04

because in these days of mourning

00:33:07

it is necessary for many to show maximum

00:33:10

dexterity in order to get maximum hype.

00:33:12

Well, I agree with this, yes, very many of

00:33:16

our Turbo patriots, which means that in the very first hours they joined in the

00:33:20

coverage of some such working version

00:33:23

Although nothing is clear they have already started

00:33:24

blaming the Tajiks, blaming

00:33:26

Ukraine there, further away. That is, they just

00:33:29

went to the hype, hype on the Blood, so

00:33:33

it turns out in such and such cases, if you take it like that,

00:33:37

think globally, there are no innocents

00:33:41

except the innocent victims of ordinary people, and all

00:33:44

other structures are somehow responsible

00:33:47

responsibility, but once again we seem to

00:33:49

be facing an abyss.

00:33:52

Because while maintaining all these

00:33:54

realities of this whole so-called order,

00:34:02

the disposal of the

00:34:03

population will continue in one way or another. Well, it will continue. But we are

00:34:06

looking for options on how to get out of this situation,

00:34:10

so let’s say, revealing the background let's say there was a

00:34:13

terrorist attack Yes, we are trying to generalize

00:34:17

the information on this matter Yes, without

00:34:19

specifying the specific culprits there, without any criticism at all, it

00:34:23

especially

00:34:26

seems On a global scale, not only

00:34:28

within the Russian one, that's what this is not

00:34:32

just a one-time action And the investigator needs to

00:34:35

do something Well, we're watching, let's say

00:34:38

finishing previous topic for what is

00:34:41

happening What decisions are made

00:34:43

if we see that shifts are made in the field of, for example,

00:34:44

migration policy

00:34:47

Well, naturally, we will

00:34:49

welcome this and recommend something else

00:34:51

in this direction Yes,

00:34:54

but so far we do not see uh decisions

00:34:57

that would uh This is this Picnic on the side of the road

00:35:00

that we have formed instead of

00:35:03

Russian civilization on the site of

00:35:04

Russian civilization, if anyone

00:35:06

has read the Strugatsky film,

00:35:08

watched Tarkovsky, they understand Picnic on the side of the road, a mountain of

00:35:10

garbage of all kinds of traps of crap

00:35:13

piled up, nothing really works, but we

00:35:16

puff out our cheeks with terrible force that

00:35:19

everything is great with our economy and the

00:35:21

security forces are working, and so on and

00:35:23

so forth, we

00:35:28

are trying with all our might to somehow

00:35:30

fix this, there is a hope among many, both

00:35:34

security officials and ordinary people,

00:35:37

that if we tighten the screws as much as possible,

00:35:40

if we build such an iron

00:35:42

order from all this, people will be protected from

00:35:45

all this horror and They will also ensure

00:35:47

prosperity, but this is unlikely. Well, look.

00:35:51

This is possible, but under one condition. This is

00:35:54

how it was in the twenties and

00:35:56

thirties, when Commissars were running

00:35:58

all over the country,

00:35:59

summer residents, and so on. Of course, they

00:36:02

tightened the screws; the regime of military

00:36:04

communism worked in the

00:36:06

USSR, and moreover, just execution or

00:36:10

means NKVD But why did it all work?

00:36:15

Because those who ran around as Commissars in leather

00:36:16

jackets, they themselves didn’t shovel

00:36:18

the loot. Yes, they were an example, here’s the

00:36:22

commune film, they watched in many ways the truth is a

00:36:26

kind of

00:36:28

iron order, they demanded order

00:36:30

from

00:36:31

themselves, but now there’s something like you want

00:36:34

spirituality about

00:36:37

materiality, you want too much

00:36:39

here redneck Yes, instead of

00:36:43

striving for consumption, let’s take care of your

00:36:45

soul, go to church, believe me,

00:36:48

pray for something there, etc.,

00:36:50

and we will be on the pitchfork Ivo NST there is

00:36:58

no half-way for you to go abroad Well, so

00:37:02

on and so on, and we’ll also cancel

00:37:05

foreign passports. We’ll introduce something else

00:37:08

like that. You must pay 2,000 rubles for housing and communal services. You still

00:37:13

don’t have the right to travel abroad. And the fact

00:37:15

that you stole 2 billion there, sent it

00:37:17

abroad there too, to foreign accounts. Well,

00:37:20

that’s kind of I am supposed to hold such a post.

00:37:23

Therefore, in such a

00:37:26

situation it is impossible to wrap them up. Well, that is,

00:37:30

it is possible to wrap them up in that sense, but it

00:37:35

is impossible to achieve the fulfillment of some government regulations because the people will be

00:37:38

precipitated, they will either die or

00:37:40

become an alcoholic or go abroad, we see

00:37:42

Yes, there is a stream of young people

00:37:44

going abroad. As far as possible,

00:37:46

people are trying to

00:37:48

leave, this is the main reaction in the current

00:37:51

conditions, if you can’t go out into the street and

00:37:53

demand means bringing some

00:37:56

officials to account for the people of Virgo to

00:37:59

go to the village, but now the deputies

00:38:01

are considering some kind of the law there has already

00:38:06

prohibited living in the winter, generally

00:38:09

prohibiting living in a dacha in the winter,

00:38:12

visiting this dacha there, and so on and

00:38:14

so forth. This is what this is being done for.

00:38:16

What kind of lobby? What kind of Mafia? The Mafia that built

00:38:19

houses in Moscow and wants

00:38:26

people to

00:38:28

talk about the national project

00:38:30

demography initiative extremely

00:38:33

strange Well, the fact of the matter is

00:38:36

that how to say the rhetoric seems to be

00:38:39

correct, that the family needs to be helped, but in

00:38:43

the decision everything is done the opposite,

00:38:46

such political sterilization of the masses is

00:38:49

being carried out Well, not only politically, in

00:38:52

general, if you tighten the screws in such conditions,

00:38:55

then these screws will actually turn out to be in

00:38:57

fact, nails in the hands and feet of the people of the

00:39:00

national body Yes, and the policy of military

00:39:03

communism now seems to few people to be

00:39:05

synonymous with stability or

00:39:08

prosperity. But we want freedom and

00:39:11

contentment for everyone. What the

00:39:13

classics of Russian anarchism wrote about in their time.

00:39:16

Well, now a paradoxical situation

00:39:18

is developing, that is, a situation when we

00:39:19

must increase the efficiency of our

00:39:21

state Yes, after the terrorist attack We see

00:39:24

that there are these squeals from all sides That we

00:39:26

need more order, more order

00:39:31

Yes, well, what is meant by

00:39:34

order, this needs to

00:39:37

be deciphered What measures should the

00:39:39

state take after the terrorist attack and in

00:39:41

relation to

00:39:42

whom not such

00:39:45

conversations I noticed that when you say

00:39:49

the word order, everyone has such tacit

00:39:52

approval. But if you say the word

00:39:54

freedom T. Everyone

00:39:56

from whom and how people are more accustomed to

00:40:00

order, such forced

00:40:03

orderliness. Although order, for example, in

00:40:06

prison, order is relative. Yes, when

00:40:09

you can’t go there, here in a concentration camp,

00:40:12

order there can also be order in the cemetery

00:40:14

Well, that’s right Well, people seem to have

00:40:16

been taught that Freedom is

00:40:18

dangerous, it can’t be in principle, and that

00:40:21

’s why you have all sorts of movements in the

00:40:24

direction of Freedom, people don’t believe it. And

00:40:26

when you rub it, of course they put their content

00:40:31

into it in the first place

00:40:33

of course, well, compliance with the laws, compliance with the

00:40:38

laws, at least they hope for this, that

00:40:42

is, in the word order, Hope is heard among

00:40:44

ordinary

00:40:45

people, the authorities understand order differently,

00:40:48

this is ensuring loyalty,

00:40:51

diligence, and so on, the

00:40:56

pony

00:41:00

controls something, it seems to them. This is order,

00:41:03

not that everything works, what the engine

00:41:06

is running and the train is moving with acceleration

00:41:09

somewhere, which means a bright future No, this

00:41:13

should be unclear. In general,

00:41:16

ideally, the Dead Kingdom is in the TM Kingdom.

00:41:19

Complete order is indeed in the

00:41:26

cemetery,

00:41:28

but of course we don’t need such order,

00:41:30

we need Freedom, development, prosperity,

00:41:33

Will and contentment for everyone on radio

00:41:36

Aurora Vladimir Lepekhin director of the

00:41:38

EAC Institute rector of the School of Economic

00:41:41

Solidarity Economics and Politics hosted the

00:41:43

program by political commentator

00:41:45

Fyodor Biryukov friends subscribe to

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Aurora on different platforms links in the

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Description:

Ректор Школы солидарной экономики Владимир Лепехин в беседе с Фёдором Бирюковым обсуждает проблемы российских государственных институтов, не обеспечивающих ни защиты россиян от терактов и других напастей, ни цивилизационной безопасности Россиив целом... В.Л. - автор концепции России как "Солидарной цивилизации", важнейшими элементами которой являются солидарная экономика, солидарное государство и солидарное общество... Нынешнее криминально-олигархическое государство не способно защитить россиян. Единственный способ спасти РФ - солидаризация государства и госуправления.

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