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Table of contents
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Table of contents

0:00
вступление
3:05
почему Сергей Пашин решил стать юристом?
4:04
какие вузы Сергей Пашин рассматривал для поступления?
4:52
что Сергей Пашин запомнил больше всего во время сдачи вступительных экзаменов в МГУ?
5:55
кто из университетских преподавателей оказал наибольшее влияние на становление Сергея Пашина как юриста?
9:53
почему Сергей Пашин выбрал именно кафедру уголовного процесса?
10:58
о подработках Сергея Пашина во время учебы
13:46
о выборе Сергеем Пашиным профессии после университета
14:59
тема диссертации Сергея Пашина
16:15
как перестройка повлияла на правосознание в стране?
18:35
о членстве Сергея Пашина в КПСС и оперотрядах комсомольцев
21:03
когда Сергей Пашин сделал поворот от науки к практике?
24:01
Сергей Пашин о событиях августа 1991 года
28:19
блиц
34:24
самые серьезные вызовы, которые стояли перед Сергеем Пашиным во время слома советской правовой системы
44:01
почему Сергей Пашин выступал за внедрение суда присяжных?
49:17
задумки Сергея Пашина, которые не удалось реализовать во время работы в Администрации Президента
55:10
почему Сергей Пашин решил перейти на работу в судебную систему?
58:53
печальные истории про оперотряд комсомольцев, где работал Сергей Пашин
1:01:28
почему Сергей Пашин не пошел в судьи Верховного или Высшего Арбитражного судов?
1:03:18
что больше всего поразило Сергея Пашина в работе судьей?
1:09:19
сколько оправдательных приговоров вынес Сергей Пашин?
1:09:53
какие дела больше всего запомнились Сергею Пашину?
1:14:50
почему Сергея Пашина стали «выдавливать» из судебной системы?
1:17:59
какие направления деятельности Сергей Пашин планировал после ухода из судебной системы?
1:18:37
в чем коренное отличие российской и американской систем образования?
1:21:00
наши студенты vs американские студенты
1:23:38
что Сергей Пашин вынес для себя из работы на телевидении?
1:26:25
пожелание Сергея Пашина молодым юристам
1:28:00
завершение
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00:00:00
[music]
00:00:06
Pashin Sergey Anatolyevich Candidate of
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Legal Sciences Professor of the Department of
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Judicial Power no higher retired judge
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born in 1962 in Moscow
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1984 graduated with honors from the
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Faculty of Law of Lomonosov Moscow State University with a degree in
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jurisprudence
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in 1987 graduated from graduate school in
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1988 defended his Ph.D.
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thesis in topic of judicial debate, the
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mechanism for establishing the truth in a
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criminal case, taught at the
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Faculty of Law of the
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Lomonosov Moscow State University from
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1987 to 1990, served in 1990 as a
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senior consultant to the apparatus of the
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Supreme Court of the USSR and then moved to the
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position of chief specialist in the
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legal department of the apparatus of the Presidium of the
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Supreme Council of the USSR
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in 1992, congratulations department of judicial
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reform of the state legal department of the
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President of the Russian
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Federation from 1995 to
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1996 worked as deputy head of the
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legal department of the apparatus of the
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State Duma of the Federal Council of the
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Russian Federation
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from 2003 to 2010 member of the qualification
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commission at the
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Moscow Bar Association from November 2012 to November 2018
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was a member Council under the President of the Russian Federation
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for the development of civil society and
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human rights
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from 1996 to 2001, judge of the Moscow
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City Court
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retired in 2001, taught
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criminal procedure law at
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Moscow universities,
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was also invited to teach at
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Harvard, Yale, New York and
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Boston universities from 2005 to 2007
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participated in the program for a year and a federal
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judge on Channel One was also the host of the
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program The Court Is Going on the NTV channel in
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2008, Professor of the Department of
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Judiciary, National Research
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Sestetto Higher School of Economics, Founding member of a
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regional
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public association, Independent
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expert legal council, Member of the
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Moscow Helsinki Group,
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Corresponding Member of the International
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Academy of Informatization
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author of bills on the Constitutional
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Court of the Russian Federation, the operation of the criminal
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law in time on the status of judges on the
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judicial system of the Russian Federation, jury trial, one
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of the authors of the concept of judicial reform in the Russian
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Federation, in 1992,
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awarded the honorary title of Honored
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Lawyer of Russia, laureate of the Human Rights Prize,
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Commissioner for Rights
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person in the Russian Federation full member of the
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New York Academy of Sciences
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and colleagues today we are interviewing
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Sergei Anatolyevich Pashina are you preparing
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good afternoon good afternoon
00:03:01
traditional our question is why did you become
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a lawyer they chose some other
00:03:08
profession it was my dream since
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school and
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great Of course, the influence was exerted by the book of
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speeches of famous Russian lawyers and
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published in
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1958 by State Yours from the date I read it
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from cover to cover, in my opinion, even without
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stopping for lunch, so I read it
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day and night, an excellent book
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that gives an idea of ​​how
00:03:38
Lawyers work and what they are capable of,
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how they are able to change a
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person’s fate with their word and you dreamed of becoming a
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lawyer, I dreamed of becoming a trial
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lawyer, a judge rather than a rich
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lawyer,
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other requirements and character
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should be different and you decided to enroll in
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law school from which
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universities? you only chose
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then there were two or three universities, this and MGU
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MGIMO and illusions, and
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I believed that Omgau was the first university in the country
00:04:18
and it was necessary to go there; however, there was still the
00:04:21
possibility of a military career, the military
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institute of the Ministry of Defense, and to tell the
00:04:26
truth, I started with what I applied the
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document there and
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passed all the exams,
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but my health failed me, so
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literally on the last day I handed over
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the document into the darkness, I passed the interview
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very quickly and almost an hour before the end of the
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interviews and
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passed the exams at Moscow University, I
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remember something about passing the exams, I
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can say that I remember it but this has
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nothing to do with the teacher, I really
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liked taking the
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English language exam, but when I went to
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take it from the bus stop,
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it is near the main building, there are 57 111
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buses, then on the stand in front of the main building in front of the
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humanities faculty building there was
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an announcement due to technical reasons, the
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English language exam is canceled
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and
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if I hadn’t
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checked, I probably wouldn’t have acted, I wouldn’t have
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believed it, I went, this is a very useful
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thing for a lawyer, it seems to me not to take
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other people’s words on faith,
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interesting, very good, such an
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indicative story,
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every man for himself base of everyone
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when you started studying at the university
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who you could you single out
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as teachers
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exactly those people who mentored you the
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first coursework I wrote from Lyudmila
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Timofeevna Ulyanova this is the department of
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criminal procedure law then it
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was simply called criminal procedure and
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then she recommended me to the head of the
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department because she said that the
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coursework was written at the graduation level and
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she said that I went to the library
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to look for where I copied it from and didn’t find it,
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which means she recommended me to Boris
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Afanasyevich corners, and since then we
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worked with him all the time, I studied in those
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days it was fashionable and worthy, well, for
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example, I studied those processes in which
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Lenin spoke, he
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spoke, it’s true, he
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didn’t conduct two dozen trials, but about 15
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trials were still on his account, he
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was an assistant to a sworn attorney, and this is what
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I gave a report at a conference,
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received the Gurney Prize, and then wrote a
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term paper and dissertation in the department of
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criminal procedure and specialized
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in Chekalkin, an
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excellent scientist, a
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subtle polemicist and an
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excellent
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teacher, an excellent lecturer, he taught
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a course on court and justice, now these are
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law enforcement agencies and of course the
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criminal process, his
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lectures were not perceived equally by everyone,
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but they were very good
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because he did not retell the law and
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regulations plenum and he posed
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problems and in particular the problem of the
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acquittal,
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why where did they go, why do we have no
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justification?
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to hard labor along the
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highway there were no enthusiasts, Vladimir, then they went
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and the
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voice-over reads the full text of
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the verdict in his case, but this was not
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included in the film, but I read this verdict and was
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also very impressed, that is, Boris
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Afanasievich
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fought,
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wrote a wonderful book, gave
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excellent lectures, but also he
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had time to be scientific
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supervisors, by the way, his scientific
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supervisor is Andrei Yanovich in Ushinsky and he
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also told them a lot about Andrei and Yanao
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Revich, his habits reveal unpleasant stories to us about his residence,
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more and more about
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album justice when a
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person’s fate was determined by the number of
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ticks against his last name. such a
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special judicial duo that included
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Comrade Yezhov and Comrade Vyshinsky,
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and my supervisor said
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that Andrei Ivanovich
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was absolutely destroyed after he checked the boxes in
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this album with names and articles of
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charges, and the boxes had to be
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marked either with a blue pencil
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or a red one if 2 red ticks are
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execution, well, that means
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Andrei Yanuarivich was very worried,
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besides, Boris Afanasyevich talked about his
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legal ideas,
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but in many ways they were reflected in his
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books, including on the theory of
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evidence, so Andrei Yanuarivich is a
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very ambiguous person, very smart,
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very educated, well and who sold his soul to
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the devil, of course,
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go back to the period of studying at the
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law faculty of Moscow State University,
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why did you still choose the
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hungry process as true, otherwise you could, for example,
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specialize in
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state law or the fire of
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criminal law, why exactly the process
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is all points reading books about lawyers
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about the court The jury here it seems to me that
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this is Rome, which does not require readings of an
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actor of complete destruction seriously, a criminal
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trial is not a dispute about property about
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despicable metal, it is a dialogue between the
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state and the individual
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about her most important rights, and among
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these rights are freedom and life and a good name.
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that it seemed to me then that this was
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very relevant and correct and this was
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the cutting edge, well, of course there are people there
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who generalize other people’s experience, this is quite
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worthy, I’m so interested in
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when you studied, did
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you work part-time, or
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maybe there was an opportunity to work and
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help practicing lawyers in practice
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? I entered the faculty at the age of 16,
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so I had to wait two years to
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work somewhere in the bar, of course, there
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was no way back then because there was a
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limited number of lawyers,
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limited by the Ministry of Justice in
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Moscow, it was supposed to have 1,200 people, which is
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where all the
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lawyers, accordingly, didn’t want
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who to contact from the outside except
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some of my acquaintances, relatives of the
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children of my acquaintances, and so on, I was a
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lecturer in social studies, I went and gave
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lectures on vouchers in the workshops to the factories there
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and received 5 rubles for each lecture,
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and there
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were a lot of legal lectures back then of all sorts of initiatives, then the
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fight against drunkenness began, so it was necessary and
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that is, you explained the rules of law for
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nothing, the rule of law turned pale, explained to people how to
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react, for example, to a call from the police,
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that’s what a criminal trial is, but
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in a word, the orders were very different, then there
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were enterprises that ordered
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me, regardless what
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topic was I free to choose? The topic of
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social studies was very rich and
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this is how I earned money from institutions, and in the
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senior years I taught the basics of jurisprudence in everyday life,
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these were cute seamstress girls and I
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had eight groups, and that means I went and
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told 25-hour course buff for
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them, they listened with bated breath, they really
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like the
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process and the rights, they were interested in a lot of things,
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and especially because they somehow
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had a bad experience with this right,
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for example, they were told that if they
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leave, I experienced some who wanted to leave
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from under that with they will be charged the entire stipend
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that they and I explained to them that it was
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legally impossible, they didn’t believe me
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and then they went to the authorities and grief, but the
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teacher says
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the director is such a very nice woman, she
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wanted to be a hero of socialist
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labor, she explained to me that the law is the law and the
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needs of the country and the
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party's decision is the needs of the country and the
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decisions and the party we need sewing threads
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spoke to but I tell him that
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my wife has come to terms with me
00:13:45
when you were already approaching graduation from the
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university,
00:13:50
did you have such a fork in the road when you
00:13:52
decided to continue your legal career like this?
00:13:55
fate, that is, to stay at the
00:13:58
department with your dissertation or maybe
00:14:01
go to work in the Ministry of Justice
00:14:05
somewhere else I was invited to be an investigator at the
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city prosecutor's office and it was about graduate school
00:14:10
during my time
00:14:14
in graduate school and the opportunity to
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stay at the department was considered the crowning achievement of my
00:14:20
career, so I chose Of course,
00:14:22
graduate school, although I was part of the prosecutor’s office, I
00:14:27
talked about possible
00:14:29
employment there, but of course I stayed
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at the department and I don’t regret it. In those
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days, it seemed to me that it was very important to comprehend
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all the practice and the entire array of scientific
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theories and positions of the Supreme Court, and I
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dug in with pleasure in the book he
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went to codification, he on and the bureau read the
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magazine and from cover to cover, that is, it
00:14:55
gave me great pleasure
00:14:57
what was the topic of your dissertation, the topic
00:15:00
is called judicial debate in the mechanism for
00:15:03
establishing the truth in a criminal case,
00:15:05
the topic was chosen for me by the scientific supervisors
00:15:08
when I said that but what kind of topic of
00:15:11
judicial captivity he said, this too without a
00:15:14
focus on the floor, but so I began to
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write and came to the conclusion that the truth is
00:15:21
not established in the process when I
00:15:23
defended my dissertation it was a huge
00:15:26
scandal before the defense the
00:15:28
head of the department was already another
00:15:31
person who was Konstantin everyone is
00:15:34
Gutsenko's friend, Linda may God bless him,
00:15:36
and of course he had completely different
00:15:39
views,
00:15:40
not typical of the democratic spirit of the
00:15:43
university, well, he had his own views
00:15:46
and this deserves respect, and he was an
00:15:50
ardent opponent of
00:15:52
deviation from the socialist
00:15:54
concept of truth, and I was also stupid to
00:15:58
criticize the resolution CIC and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and they
00:16:01
promised me that it means that everyone will vote
00:16:04
against well, this is the story, nothing
00:16:07
was shoved but they voted 12 1 for so
00:16:12
it’s like I love evil it’s 8 and 6 you can
00:16:17
remember how perestroika began
00:16:20
about that period and how it influenced
00:16:22
[music ]
00:16:24
legal consciousness and in general on the right-wing system of
00:16:26
the country, after all, this happened before your eyes
00:16:28
before it
00:16:31
was
00:16:33
very modest and farewell to the Brezhnev
00:16:37
era, we were just given a lecture
00:16:40
on scientific communism,
00:16:43
and at the time of purchase, the teacher said that
00:16:48
I ask everyone to stand for a minute of silence,
00:16:50
we stood for 300 seconds, he said sit down and I’ll
00:16:53
continue, so farewell was like this, there was
00:16:58
no joy, any love and separation
00:17:01
will be without sadness, then there was Andropov, on
00:17:04
whom they counted a lot, and before him
00:17:07
Chernenko, under Chernenko, there were elections under
00:17:11
Konstantin Ustinovich, the elections went the most
00:17:14
Soviet way, one hundred percent,
00:17:16
including our students, voted
00:17:19
as if, and of course, for the candidate of
00:17:22
the only candidate of the indestructible bloc of
00:17:25
communists and non-party people,
00:17:27
but when perestroika began, the
00:17:29
main thing that our teachers said
00:17:31
was how we remember Misha Gorbachev, he
00:17:35
taught me nothing good, he was
00:17:38
a student, that is, he was like his own
00:17:40
person and perestroika was perceived
00:17:42
a little in a warm, homely way,
00:17:45
no special criticism was allowed,
00:17:49
it was believed that all this still needed to
00:17:52
be dealt with specifically, and there lived those who
00:17:55
were interested in bourgeois law,
00:17:58
nevertheless, I continued to read the special course on the
00:18:01
reactionary nature of the bourgeois
00:18:03
criminal process,
00:18:05
perestroika perestroika, and when
00:18:07
the frosts hit, we have something to report on
00:18:10
so the faculty and the Canadians were very
00:18:13
careful about this, here is the idea
00:18:17
that the reforms were not irreversible; rather,
00:18:21
on the contrary, they expected that now it would be a little
00:18:24
busy, and then everything would return to normal; the
00:18:27
party organizations
00:18:29
worked; contributions were collected, but in a word, the
00:18:32
meeting was held; and you were a Finn and I
00:18:35
was a member of the party, yes, I joined the party
00:18:40
at the suggestion,
00:18:41
I was called
00:18:44
to the party committee of the faculty and
00:18:47
this was due to the fact that
00:18:50
I made a career as a commissar of an operational detachment,
00:18:54
I was a commissar of an operational detachment of the Brezhnev
00:18:57
region, and here is the rank, explain what it
00:19:00
is, it is
00:19:02
also that voluntary people's squads are
00:19:05
legally but from ideological Komsomol members,
00:19:09
so there were, as it were, two streams of
00:19:14
people, here dmtn voluntary people's
00:19:17
squads are people who basically
00:19:19
earned themselves an increase in vacation for
00:19:21
these duties, plus three days, and
00:19:24
Komsomol members who had nothing on this,
00:19:26
but the operational
00:19:29
Komsomol detachment included
00:19:31
very advanced young people in our
00:19:35
area were, for example, the Institute of
00:19:37
Space Research,
00:19:39
that is, they were such advanced techno, and
00:19:42
it means that
00:19:44
I did not lead one of the departments of this,
00:19:48
but I was a commissioner, this meant
00:19:52
that I had to set an example to
00:19:54
go on duty, I issued such a
00:19:59
handwritten journal, a whistle, it was called
00:20:01
Yes, and
00:20:03
I taught a course for young fighters
00:20:06
theoretically under Soviet laws on the
00:20:10
criminal code on administrative
00:20:13
law, that is, it was such a training
00:20:15
for trainees, but the TsKV KSM after
00:20:20
13 arrests appeared on my account,
00:20:23
or even 15, and awarded me
00:20:27
certificates, and you yourself detained together
00:20:30
with you, the queen, of course, and after
00:20:33
this circus with a fork, Sam gave me a certificate
00:20:36
for active participation in the protection of
00:20:38
public order,
00:20:39
this served as the basis for our
00:20:42
party committee to make me an offer to
00:20:44
join the party, then such
00:20:46
offers could not be rejected, but to be
00:20:50
honest, I thought
00:20:52
it was right in general, you need to
00:20:54
work honestly, then the university will get something off
00:20:57
the ground; not everyone speaks languages, then you
00:21:00
need to do something
00:21:02
when your career is already quite
00:21:06
predictable, it’s obvious that everything
00:21:09
was more or less clear, that you
00:21:11
will work for the salary of an assistant,
00:21:14
first I worked until then associate professor then
00:21:17
defended his doctoral dissertation as a tenta
00:21:19
professor when your career
00:21:22
took such a peculiar turn what
00:21:26
was it connected with
00:21:28
perestroika
00:21:30
grew into a small revolution
00:21:32
in Russia real people came to power as a result of
00:21:36
real elections and
00:21:41
competition really arose between the
00:21:44
old communist view of things
00:21:46
that
00:21:49
I already count already false and
00:21:53
democratic views, and there
00:21:56
was also Sergei Mikhalych Shakhrai, who was
00:22:00
in charge of the laboratory in the darkness
00:22:02
and V.M.
00:22:05
information I was involved in computer science and
00:22:09
he invited me to go to work at the
00:22:14
Supreme Council, but I didn’t go there
00:22:19
from the darkness, but I went there from the
00:22:22
Supreme Court of the Union of the USSR, but how did it
00:22:25
happen I was a senior consultant,
00:22:27
also an interesting thing, I had a
00:22:31
special course about the methodology and theory of
00:22:33
justice I got it here, Borislav,
00:22:35
she is cleaner than Galkin, of whom by that time
00:22:38
you were living with the department, the new
00:22:40
leadership was sent and
00:22:43
Vladimir Ivanovich came and fiddled with the
00:22:45
chairman of the Supreme Court, who was also
00:22:48
at the department, by the way, he was the Minister of
00:22:50
Justice for some time, well, from the
00:22:53
Supreme Court he moved here, they gave him
00:22:56
half of this course we were
00:22:59
not connected, that is, we had
00:23:02
all the metro or on opposing views,
00:23:03
and then we agreed that he would help
00:23:07
me go to the Supreme Court and the course is 600
00:23:10
hi-fun ppf and he was there just looking for a
00:23:14
senior consultant in the department of
00:23:16
systematization of legislation and he
00:23:18
recommended me and you left
00:23:21
the university when you crossed the Russian Federation lancet
00:23:23
give you left it was necessary, I
00:23:26
came, that means, full-time work here and
00:23:28
there, but then Sergei Mikhailovich
00:23:31
invited me to go help him at one
00:23:35
time, I participated in the election
00:23:37
campaign, helped him as much as I could, and
00:23:40
now he probably decided that it is
00:23:44
useful to have your friend from the university yourself
00:23:48
this is in what year was it 90 and now
00:23:52
due to the year 91 before everyone breathe in the events
00:23:55
yes yes yes yes the ninetieth year that’s where
00:23:58
I actually worked can be fulfilled by the
00:24:01
events of August 91
00:24:04
I just got back from vacation and with We were
00:24:07
surprised to see
00:24:09
that it was the 19th of August until August 19th. I was
00:24:13
surprised to see that there were some
00:24:15
strange people in the metro, so I didn’t immediately
00:24:17
understand what was happening, but then in the meters they
00:24:20
began to announce this pointer, I’m swinging
00:24:24
along and I realized that there was a coup and I hurried
00:24:27
of course at the service
00:24:29
at the service, my boss was shakhrai,
00:24:34
everyone seemed to be in such a nervous
00:24:37
state, we didn’t know what to expect, they
00:24:39
were handing out weapons and
00:24:42
in fact the people had not yet caught up, I
00:24:46
saw
00:24:47
around lunchtime how they put the fu
00:24:52
upside down, not allowing a
00:24:57
possible
00:24:59
attacker to pass, but there were absolutely no people
00:25:01
a little and
00:25:03
then a living ring really appeared,
00:25:06
this was by the evening of the 19th by the evening even
00:25:09
after lunch it started under the truck this is
00:25:12
the first thing I saw when I went to
00:25:15
work and what completely amazed me I
00:25:18
at lunchtime I had to buy to
00:25:21
go through the bridge on Krasnopresnenskaya
00:25:24
embankment buy at in a bookstore
00:25:26
I bought one of the buildings, I came back and saw
00:25:29
how tanks go into the city
00:25:31
so that it’s not particularly amazing, they follow the
00:25:34
rules of the road and
00:25:36
stop at red lights and wait and
00:25:39
then go, but then I
00:25:42
saw everything, for example, Boris
00:25:44
Nikolaevich
00:25:45
on an armored car, like on an infantry fighting vehicle they drove an
00:25:49
infantry fighting vehicle, then the officer commander of three
00:25:53
infantry fighting vehicles declared that he was going over
00:25:55
to the side of the people, he was a senior
00:25:57
lieutenant, a very brave young man,
00:26:00
and then at the rally he spoke at the
00:26:04
suggestion of an egg, he stood next to him and it
00:26:07
means he made such a very
00:26:10
inspired speech like him a simple
00:26:13
officer came to
00:26:15
fight for a just cause, but the speech was a
00:26:18
short night, not emotional, but on the
00:26:21
evening of the 19th,
00:26:24
the situation worsened, a message was received
00:26:28
that there would be an assault, the
00:26:30
women were released from work and
00:26:34
began to roll out their sleeves, that is,
00:26:37
expect a turunda that it will apparently be a
00:26:39
fire that will have to be extinguished, but glory
00:26:42
God had mercy, it means none of this happened,
00:26:45
so
00:26:47
of course we were lucky that the
00:26:53
real professionals didn’t come to their
00:26:55
senses, but it’s okay for us, they would have
00:26:59
put a lot of people in, but then what was
00:27:01
great was the general joy of the
00:27:05
Rumyants, the chairman of the constitutional
00:27:07
commission demanded the tricolor and instead of the
00:27:10
Soviet flag Boris Nikolayevich
00:27:13
pulled him back slightly said it was Paris
00:27:16
prematurely, but but in the end
00:27:19
we got it all,
00:27:21
I saw
00:27:24
Gorbachev as he spoke and explained what was
00:27:28
happening, he was forced to read
00:27:31
some crumpled piece of paper, there were
00:27:35
negotiations about it and he read it,
00:27:39
but that is mini car to evaluate, they treated him
00:27:42
psychologically, very badly, very
00:27:45
discourteously, well, that’s it, and then there was great
00:27:49
joy and development of property
00:27:53
that never belonged to the
00:27:55
Communist Party, then there was
00:27:58
Yeltsin’s decree banning both the CPSU and the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, which
00:28:02
gave rise to a process in the
00:28:04
constitutional court
00:28:06
at one time, the so-called case Communist Party of the Soviet Union,
00:28:10
which lasted for six months, so
00:28:13
what did we really witness and what
00:28:15
were
00:28:19
we now going to have with you a little blitz,
00:28:21
these are a few, maybe a few
00:28:23
short questions that can be
00:28:25
answered, not necessarily briefly, so 1, do
00:28:27
you think it’s better to follow the squeaked
00:28:30
horse or trust the judges and the
00:28:32
president doesn’t create are right if good judges then you
00:28:35
need to trust in creating a precedent
00:28:37
who in your opinion is tim him to
00:28:40
there who can succeed with the
00:28:42
professionalism of such lawyers a lot of
00:28:44
Henry Markovich Reznik one of the first
00:28:46
roof it is better to do it yourself or
00:28:49
delegate it is better to do it yourself
00:28:52
this is also Suvorov saying
00:28:54
the most important qualities for judges conscience is
00:28:59
quite excellent what do you
00:29:02
value most in people
00:29:04
honor sense of duty do
00:29:07
you have favorite dishes I myself love
00:29:11
to cook and mostly cook in foil the
00:29:14
family rejoices 3 I bake meat
00:29:18
so color let's talk a little about your
00:29:20
student years we heard that
00:29:23
you participated in childhood board of the
00:29:26
magazine what was it called execute before the
00:29:29
magazine was called golda muse that is, we
00:29:32
will have fun and the
00:29:34
editorial board consisted of three
00:29:36
people I was the editor-in-chief chopped
00:29:39
chief yes what is the concept in general the
00:29:41
magazine then satire and humor so that
00:29:45
students have fun our comrades and
00:29:48
maglev write there many handed in their
00:29:52
poems and essays and during dramas it turned out to be
00:29:55
distracting without any doubt there was a
00:29:56
huge queue lined up this is very
00:30:00
good about the teachers and they
00:30:02
wrote something in this magazine epigrams were on the
00:30:05
teacher they were not offended whoever read it
00:30:08
perceived
00:30:11
with understanding because the young people even
00:30:14
cut their teeth domus we will have fun
00:30:16
while you are young, you have such good
00:30:18
teachers, we are returning back from
00:30:21
the line, residence,
00:30:23
military service, military service
00:30:26
is great, the best way to escape from
00:30:28
work is to write poetry, that’s just what we’ll move on to, do
00:30:32
you have a favorite poet
00:30:34
or a direction whole in poetry, maybe
00:30:36
highlight I love Tsvetaeva Well, early
00:30:38
and Bunin and of course and Senya, and from what
00:30:42
poems of the poet or trends did your
00:30:45
passion begin in this
00:30:46
area,
00:30:47
my grandfather, he was a
00:30:50
villager, then he came to Moscow,
00:30:53
he loved Yesenin very much, and from early
00:30:56
childhood I learned his poems by heart, the first
00:31:00
poem which I learned this
00:31:02
letter to my mother
00:31:05
at what age did they begin to write themselves it
00:31:08
was probably at five years old five years loops
00:31:11
but at first they were probably small,
00:31:12
very short brother and sister
00:31:15
sat by the fire took a spoon scooped I
00:31:17
understand
00:31:19
still write we write even
00:31:23
there is a book very I
00:31:26
'm sick of you, but I wouldn't say about
00:31:29
the dude, the meaning of the vector attack the ring
00:31:32
judicial is a little
00:31:36
complicated or there are people like you too, well, something would have to be
00:31:39
found in
00:31:42
this in this collection that there are
00:31:45
two or three poems of you there and one of
00:31:48
them ends, but here it is in its entirety, eight
00:31:53
lines on the
00:31:54
church, rainy occasion, and around there are
00:31:56
tram strokes, our Mother of God, the departure
00:32:00
of which forgives all sorts of sins, that’s why there are a lot of people in the
00:32:03
church and she stands up for
00:32:05
golf, for mercy is higher than justice to the pain that
00:32:09
adds to the battle,
00:32:11
justice is doing this,
00:32:15
so let’s move on to go to the next block
00:32:18
while we put on your favorite
00:32:20
television programs, we discussed
00:32:22
what you participated in, or rather
00:32:25
seasonal ones, and here’s what your
00:32:27
favorite ones are now, what where when this is one of two
00:32:30
domestic programs, steel
00:32:32
usually runs under foreign licenses,
00:32:34
computer of a foreign person, you can’t
00:32:36
give an example, yes, everything, everything
00:32:38
the rest is a fight for countries in the face of well
00:32:41
there is an opinion that real jurisprudence
00:32:44
is a civile stick you agree with this I
00:32:46
agree yes why don’t you notice the leaf
00:32:49
and then well, probably I’m not a real urist
00:32:52
this is
00:32:53
probably because I have an
00:32:56
aesthetic and humanitarian relationship with jurisprudence
00:33:01
the idea that
00:33:04
justice will be done even if the myth
00:33:06
dies is not close to me the loop here is the rapmon chains,
00:33:10
is there a future for the Russian
00:33:14
judicial system or does this require
00:33:15
something directly conceptually changed
00:33:17
the future is always there because
00:33:20
almost no one got along without a trial even in the
00:33:24
self-proclaimed republics ah and it doesn’t
00:33:25
work out, but whether the future is good or
00:33:29
evil is a special question; for this we
00:33:31
need judicial reform and we need to work
00:33:34
not only with the structures but also with the
00:33:36
heads, we
00:33:38
will try, I hope if you had the
00:33:42
choice to go work with a judge in the
00:33:44
console court of the Russian Federation or a
00:33:46
collegium in criminal cases of the Supreme
00:33:48
Court, so that you rather choose the
00:33:50
constitutional court, but if you had the same
00:33:52
choice between the c and there is a
00:33:54
constitutional court, and for some reason
00:33:57
Strasbourg is very far away from
00:34:01
giving a conclusion, of course not, being a judge, this
00:34:04
cannot be done if you are an active court,
00:34:07
but apply acts of the European court in
00:34:12
decisions the constitutional court is simply
00:34:14
necessary, yes, he does it himself all
00:34:16
the time, he refers to them well, thank
00:34:18
you very much, it was very interesting to use your
00:34:20
services.
00:34:23
Can you tell me about the most striking
00:34:27
challenges that you faced in your
00:34:30
work because the elephant of the
00:34:32
legal system was breaking down the country and how do you like it? the
00:34:36
lawyer obviously had to deal with
00:34:39
very serious problematic issues,
00:34:43
I worked mainly for the committee on
00:34:47
legislation and was under the committee on
00:34:50
judicial reform, it was headed by Boris
00:34:53
Andreevich Zolotukhin, a lawyer who
00:34:56
defended dissidents, he was expelled from the bar, his
00:34:59
party card was decided, and he
00:35:03
later became a deputy when he
00:35:06
appeared the possibility of the 90s before that,
00:35:09
he was essentially deprived of belonging to the
00:35:12
community and or decided at the suggestion of the KGB, but the
00:35:16
community itself and the big one, these same
00:35:18
lawyers are freedom fighters, exactly he
00:35:23
headed this under the committee under his
00:35:25
leadership, the concept of judicial reform was developed,
00:35:28
well, I was one of the authors of the concept,
00:35:31
a person who wrote the entire text from
00:35:34
beginning to end,
00:35:35
relying on the materials
00:35:38
presented by the experts as well as on his
00:35:41
understanding of the question,
00:35:43
Boris Andreevich later reported in writing
00:35:46
that I proposed my
00:35:49
own version of the concept, this is
00:35:52
the document I keep carefully, although there is
00:35:56
no
00:35:57
serious use for it I don’t see it, but
00:36:00
anyway, let it be
00:36:02
that the concept meant that it was
00:36:06
necessary to transform the judicial system
00:36:09
in reality, and
00:36:10
of course the prerequisites were, but let’s say the
00:36:14
law of property, it was important, but the
00:36:18
courts didn’t understand what the law of
00:36:21
property was because they were accustomed to the fact that
00:36:23
property is socialist and the personal
00:36:26
property of citizens means it was necessary and
00:36:28
make a new civil code and
00:36:31
create a system of arbitration courts
00:36:34
because before that there was a system of
00:36:37
state arbitration courts and there were also
00:36:39
departmental arbitration courts, but these are not courts, these are
00:36:41
bodies that dealt with the disputes of
00:36:45
slaves 1 owner of socialist
00:36:47
enterprises, all this was quite
00:36:52
overwhelming, but this matter is not the same less
00:36:55
means what I was involved
00:36:58
in, first of all, the law on the constitutional court,
00:37:01
the first law on the constitutional court, I
00:37:05
wrote on behalf of Boris Andrei Che
00:37:07
Zolotukhin, this law was adopted,
00:37:10
the problem was that at a
00:37:12
certain stage an order
00:37:14
was given to get rid of
00:37:17
individual lives and I had to
00:37:20
prepare it was first adopted by the Supreme
00:37:23
Council and, according to the procedures of that time, the Congress of
00:37:26
People's Deputies had to approve it,
00:37:28
and for the congress I prepared two texts, a
00:37:32
text that assumed the right of a
00:37:36
citizen to complain directly and a
00:37:39
text without this, thank God I managed to
00:37:42
defend the
00:37:44
original text, it was adopted and
00:37:47
citizens received a constitutional court
00:37:49
first his decision, oddly enough, was
00:37:52
against President Yeltsin,
00:37:55
he issued a decree on merging the security
00:37:58
forces into one and it was such a
00:38:01
Stalinist move, they remembered the MGB what kind of
00:38:04
reserve they had, yes yes yes yes, and so the
00:38:07
constitutional court was very short, poorly
00:38:09
motivated then the decision was not there, there
00:38:12
were no judges there. professors of law and
00:38:15
associate professors, he declared this decree
00:38:18
unconstitutional and Yeltsin
00:38:21
hesitated then, but then decided to bow down and
00:38:26
in the name of the authority of the constitutional court,
00:38:29
this decree is from us and
00:38:31
here is the fight for human rights to complain
00:38:36
to the constitutional court, it seems to me that it
00:38:38
was very important in the highest echelons I this
00:38:42
fight I couldn’t lead, but at the level of
00:38:44
deputies and at the level of
00:38:48
committee chairmen I could do it,
00:38:51
so I did it to the best of my ability and
00:38:54
of course Boris Zolotukhin played a huge role
00:38:57
in this matter Boris Andreevich
00:39:00
Zolotukhin
00:39:02
this was the topic of the day there was a very
00:39:06
interesting bill
00:39:08
related to the judicial control over
00:39:11
detention then I
00:39:13
prepared five versions of this text and
00:39:16
passed the third version, I apologize, I’ll
00:39:20
explain for our viewers that at that time
00:39:23
the prosecutor was choosing the world, you Darren, the prosecutor
00:39:26
was choosing a preventive measure,
00:39:28
but that’s
00:39:29
all, and that’s when Gorbachev left and the
00:39:34
Congress of People’s
00:39:37
Deputies of the USSR was formed
00:39:38
they issued a declaration of human and
00:39:43
civil rights and in this declaration it was
00:39:45
said about judicial control, which
00:39:47
operates directly, and then the
00:39:50
question arose whether the declarations are valid,
00:39:52
this means they came to the
00:39:55
conclusion that a non-scientist operates on the
00:39:57
territory of Russia until Russia
00:39:59
confirms this, because there was a declaration of the
00:40:02
sovereignty of Russia about independence,
00:40:04
which we, by the way, still celebrate on
00:40:07
the twelfth of June, and
00:40:09
it was said that the union laws
00:40:12
are valid if we confirm them, and if
00:40:14
not, then no, thus the declaration of the union did
00:40:18
not seem to take direct effect,
00:40:21
so it was necessary to write a law, they
00:40:24
were still in a very unpleasant situation when
00:40:27
referring to the declaration of
00:40:29
no one pears about one of the minor
00:40:32
members of this very State Emergency Committee filed a complaint against the
00:40:37
detention of members of the State Emergency Committee were
00:40:40
arrested, the prosecutor Stepankov had a hand in this
00:40:42
and
00:40:44
then Stepankov said that the court could
00:40:49
release
00:40:50
the toy from custody, but I will arrest him at the
00:40:53
court door, which means it was necessary somehow
00:40:56
resolve the situation and that means I was
00:40:59
preparing these bills,
00:41:01
number three passed in such a way
00:41:05
that the prosecutor’s office continues to arrest,
00:41:07
but a citizen can complain in the environment,
00:41:10
about 15 percent of those arrested took advantage of this right, which
00:41:13
is quite a
00:41:16
lot, but also about the same in 10 20
00:41:19
percent and approximately every fifth person was
00:41:22
released and those who complained, and not of those who were
00:41:26
imprisoned, this bill
00:41:29
worked, and before the decision that the courts
00:41:32
would function, arrests were still
00:41:35
quite far away; this was only in the new
00:41:38
era; they only wanted to
00:41:43
own it since 2007; this was an important
00:41:46
thing Then I followed the US temple into the
00:41:49
presidential administration and there I
00:41:53
worked hard with the jury and the law on the
00:41:57
status of judges, the law on the status of judges, this is the
00:42:00
result of the work of four people,
00:42:03
including me, and who else was from the
00:42:09
Supreme Court, the secretary of the plenum,
00:42:11
Demidov, I will change 100 Mr. Dementyev and
00:42:16
from the judicial community there was Harold
00:42:19
Nikolayevich Kartsev, he was then
00:42:23
the chairman of the you dance of which court then
00:42:27
perhaps it was called Sevastopol, it was
00:42:29
very close to Cheryomushki, it
00:42:33
was Harold Nikolaevich was one of the
00:42:36
authors of this law, and
00:42:39
four of us wrote the main text,
00:42:42
then it was approved by the council judges and
00:42:45
then managed to get it introduced by
00:42:48
three subjects - the Supreme Court by
00:42:51
President Yeltsin and the Committee on
00:42:55
Legislation of the then Parliament, and
00:42:58
although the prices of khasbulats were already
00:43:03
in the opposition, the fact that some kind of law was
00:43:06
introduced by all three branches of government
00:43:09
ensured that, from my point of view, it
00:43:11
passed well, which means the judges
00:43:14
received the guarantees are
00:43:17
very large, and when I presented
00:43:22
this law, I was the representative of the
00:43:24
president under this law, I pointed out
00:43:27
that
00:43:29
the judges of the constitutional court already have such guarantees,
00:43:35
thanks to the activities of Yakovlevo, did he adopt the
00:43:40
law on the arbitration court and
00:43:44
arbitration courts have already acquired
00:43:46
irremovability, unlike ordinary people
00:43:49
? that they tried to act according to the rules,
00:43:51
in the end the law passed, it was
00:43:54
approved and everything was
00:43:57
not bad at all, that’s it, and of course the jury
00:44:00
why I wanted to ask the question
00:44:03
why did you concentrate on
00:44:06
introducing the jury, although there was a
00:44:08
huge opposition to this institution,
00:44:12
maybe 100 and why not it was
00:44:14
not worth reforming people’s
00:44:16
assessors, for example,
00:44:18
but they tried, because a special
00:44:21
law on people’s assessors was adopted
00:44:23
and it didn’t solve anything later, so it
00:44:28
was, and in those days, well, first of all, I was
00:44:30
realizing my childhood idea and my
00:44:34
childhood dream, and I was in love with the jury
00:44:36
and with the students years, but the most
00:44:40
important thing was that it was necessary to find that link for
00:44:42
which, as the classics said, you can
00:44:45
pull out the whole chain, and for the economy this is,
00:44:48
of course, the law of free trade, or rather the
00:44:50
presidential decree of free trade, and for the
00:44:53
judicial system in criminal cases this is a
00:44:55
jury trial because a jury is
00:44:58
brought to our face of the punitive
00:45:02
system, the mirror says that’s what the
00:45:04
people think, and the fact that
00:45:08
acquittals began was a shock for
00:45:11
this system and
00:45:14
pushed this system to self-development;
00:45:17
if the prosecutor in an ordinary trial could
00:45:21
demand the death penalty and talk there for
00:45:23
34 minutes, as I have repeatedly observed
00:45:26
as a judge, now it was necessary
00:45:29
convincing people
00:45:30
is a completely different job; a tongue-tied
00:45:33
person cannot do this and the
00:45:36
judge is forced to give parting words to
00:45:40
convince the jury to tell them what the
00:45:43
law tells them to recall evidence; many
00:45:46
judges could not really explain the
00:45:47
content of the criminal law; the
00:45:50
first 600 judges went through the
00:45:54
academy; the Russian Academy of Law;
00:45:57
then it was called the Institute of Justice and
00:46:00
I gave lectures to them and introduced business games of
00:46:03
jury trials, so I am the first judge with a
00:46:06
jury of this country, but of course they
00:46:09
were jurors, as we did, we recruited
00:46:13
jurors from the street and
00:46:15
jurors from the audience
00:46:19
and then we figured out why the verdicts were
00:46:21
different, that is, there was a special
00:46:24
procedure when the jurors told about
00:46:27
their reasons and this was a
00:46:29
shock for the professionals, they did not imagine
00:46:33
that people could think about something that
00:46:35
they never think about, so the jury trial,
00:46:38
from my point of view, is a
00:46:41
feedback mechanism, except that it is, of course, a
00:46:44
direct people’s power,
00:46:47
thanks to the jury trial, a
00:46:50
layer of people has arisen who understand the law,
00:46:52
know how to reflect and know how to talk about the
00:46:56
right to reason sent to get into the
00:46:59
legal discourse and, accordingly,
00:47:02
the quality of the investigation has increased in cases
00:47:05
that go to jury trials so that we have
00:47:08
achieved our
00:47:10
competitiveness of the presumption of innocence in
00:47:13
reaching a verdict only on the
00:47:15
evidence considered in court from an
00:47:18
abstract formula to become real
00:47:21
Through practice, thanks to this, it seems to me that we have
00:47:24
created such a working model of
00:47:26
adversarial justice that
00:47:29
little by little began to infect the general judicial
00:47:32
system, in particular, for a
00:47:34
long time in the general judicial system, the
00:47:37
prosecutor’s refusal to charge does
00:47:39
not mean anything at all, the prosecutor says
00:47:41
I consider the defendant innocent, they
00:47:44
will not pursue charges to the fullest anyway
00:47:46
guilty or the admission of the victim
00:47:50
in the debate, this was only tried in a
00:47:53
jury trial at first, or a ban on
00:47:56
returning the case for further investigation
00:47:59
or excluding evidence from
00:48:02
the proceedings, we have all this
00:48:04
thanks to the jury trial, you cannot
00:48:07
introduce adversarialism and the presumption of
00:48:10
innocence with the command to say from now on and
00:48:13
the process will be adversarial the judge does not
00:48:15
understand they
00:48:17
told him what adversarialism is, but he’s not very sure because
00:48:21
I was writing my dissertation, I
00:48:24
analyzed the practice and found out that in
00:48:26
about 15 percent of cases there
00:48:29
is neither a prosecutor nor a lawyer, the judge and the defendant, it’s
00:48:32
all
00:48:34
adversarialism, what do armchair
00:48:37
scientists say, they say he competes with an
00:48:39
indictment is
00:48:41
how such an understanding of the clerical
00:48:44
process is, but that’s why a jury trial
00:48:47
is, firstly, a feedback mechanism
00:48:51
for the
00:48:52
punitive system and secondly, it is a
00:48:55
means of extending democratic
00:48:58
principles to the general order of the process.
00:49:01
Are we any of your ideas? I’m probably
00:49:05
too eager to say no, this is interesting we
00:49:08
deliberately do not interrupt our heroes in
00:49:11
order to tell as
00:49:13
much as possible interesting things that tecna
00:49:16
worries you about: when you worked in the
00:49:18
presidential administration, there were some of
00:49:20
your ideas and plans that, unfortunately,
00:49:23
could not be realized, but which
00:49:25
you think could have been a little
00:49:27
more - another to set the course of history about the
00:49:30
development of legal systems more than it was possible was
00:49:33
no longer possible, unfortunately, first
00:49:37
of all, it was not possible to extend jury
00:49:39
trials to new regions; I succeeded
00:49:42
in 9 videos; 12 more regions were ready,
00:49:45
but you had too much
00:49:48
opposition from punitive structures and the
00:49:50
judges themselves began to think what kind of
00:49:54
jury is this that will confuse us with the
00:49:57
prosecutor's office and with the
00:49:58
state security agencies, why do they acquit?
00:50:01
Some judges say, but I would have
00:50:04
acquitted myself, but I can’t, and
00:50:07
they acquit and then
00:50:10
they often cancel the acquittals; they
00:50:13
disagreed, but that means a tick for me that
00:50:16
they also canceled the
00:50:19
operational support of the processes;
00:50:22
in fact,
00:50:26
all sorts of secret methods of collecting
00:50:30
information, on the one hand, ensuring
00:50:33
processes like bringing in witnesses, on
00:50:35
the other hand, well, thank God, but these are also all
00:50:38
sorts of tricks of manipulation, some of them are
00:50:42
approved or implied in general, well, for
00:50:46
example, the prosecutor is already there the next
00:50:48
day he knows everything a pressure, but the defender does
00:50:51
not have the means or
00:50:54
organizational capabilities to find out,
00:50:57
and if he tries, he will
00:50:59
jeopardize the entire process; in addition, the
00:51:02
system began to respond with non-legal
00:51:05
precedents, as the Supreme Court, for
00:51:08
example, banned one of such decisions
00:51:10
in in the presence of the jury,
00:51:12
talking about the torture to which
00:51:15
the defendant was subjected, another decision prohibited
00:51:18
referring to the fact that
00:51:21
another person committed the crime, the
00:51:23
defendant must say I didn’t commit it,
00:51:26
say I know that it was a neighbor who killed his
00:51:30
wife and set fire to his house in order to
00:51:33
get insurance, the jury cannot acquit this,
00:51:35
which means they cancel the acquittal the
00:51:40
Supreme Court continues to replicate all these illegal decisions
00:51:43
despite the fact that the constitutional court
00:51:47
declares some of them unconstitutional, they forgot the
00:51:50
constitutional court said they
00:51:53
continue theirs, that’s what’s interesting,
00:51:57
so there was such opposition
00:52:01
that did not allow it to
00:52:03
spread then among the jury, it was
00:52:05
not even possible to
00:52:07
introduce judicial sanction arrests
00:52:11
remained the right to complain about what the
00:52:14
prosecutor did the prosecutor's office provided
00:52:17
President Yeltsin with too serious
00:52:20
services for
00:52:22
him to go against this system of power
00:52:26
and of course this is the law on the
00:52:31
judicial system, the federal
00:52:34
constitutional law on the judicial system
00:52:37
we, that is, the department of judicial reform of
00:52:39
state legal administration and the
00:52:41
supreme the court wrote this law together,
00:52:44
that is, in my office,
00:52:48
but I prepared a text consisting of more
00:52:53
than a hundred articles and everything was
00:52:57
regulated in great detail, including,
00:52:59
for example, the need to distribute cases
00:53:02
according to special algorithms using
00:53:06
electronic systems or panic about the
00:53:08
rule that does not allow
00:53:11
the chairman of the court to arbitrarily give
00:53:13
grain affairs to his friends,
00:53:18
but the Supreme Court opposed it,
00:53:21
this was the last bill that
00:53:24
was prepared with my participation in this area,
00:53:26
we were two representatives of the president, me
00:53:30
and the professor, the view was dreamed and
00:53:32
legally passed through the judicial system, but its
00:53:36
final version was very short,
00:53:38
essentially a framework, there were about 30
00:53:42
articles this actually all means the
00:53:45
main meaning associated with ensuring the
00:53:48
independence of judges and the
00:53:51
impartiality of the court, from there there was a choice,
00:53:53
and after all, as was often the case, we
00:53:58
reach an agreement with a representative of the Supreme
00:53:59
Court, then with a field of compromises,
00:54:03
sit down and reach an agreement in the morning, the
00:54:06
chairman of the Supreme Court calls on the
00:54:09
turntable Vyacheslav Mikhalych swan and
00:54:11
says certain to reach, and you know, we
00:54:16
refuse this decision, we
00:54:19
insist on what we actually
00:54:22
came with, so we won’t endorse this
00:54:25
bill if this remains there, for
00:54:28
example, fair distribution of the matter, we
00:54:31
don’t want this, we don’t have it for everyone
00:54:35
There is a practice that no department
00:54:38
can
00:54:41
present any bill if it is affected and the department did
00:54:44
not approve it and is independent, but without the
00:54:46
Supreme Court,
00:54:48
an attempt to push this through parliament is
00:54:52
completely doomed, so in the end they pinched this
00:54:56
bill and what was left was what remained,
00:55:00
but better than nothing, probably but worse what
00:55:04
I wanted, my work in this
00:55:06
direction ended, I went to court,
00:55:09
tell me why you made this decision
00:55:12
because there was nothing that could be done, there was
00:55:15
already a blank wall, then the door
00:55:19
that opened slightly for a
00:55:22
while while the
00:55:26
rulers were dividing the government pie, something
00:55:30
could have been done to do for
00:55:33
Russia, too, this door opened a crack,
00:55:36
then slammed, so to speak, in what
00:55:38
year did it slam 95 96 when Boris had a second
00:55:42
term, no need when Boris Nikolaevich had a second term, the
00:55:45
family and the bacchanalia around the
00:55:51
sharing of resources, they divided
00:55:55
the judiciary and the departments also raised their
00:55:59
heads, it seemed that there would be some -
00:56:02
personnel changes
00:56:04
that will allow
00:56:07
truly democratically
00:56:10
minded people to take leadership positions in those regions where there was a
00:56:13
jury trial, I managed to
00:56:15
achieve this, if only because all the
00:56:18
decrees on the appointment of judges and
00:56:21
court chairmen went through my department, so
00:56:24
when I visited the regions I found people
00:56:28
in order to make them key
00:56:32
figures in the judicial system,
00:56:33
but
00:56:34
in general, no, of course, in general, there was another
00:56:37
obedience, readiness to legitimize
00:56:41
the decision of the authorities, and
00:56:44
of course, for this, the department
00:56:47
received
00:56:48
bills that were profitable in terms of
00:56:52
resource support, and such was the
00:56:56
race for who could best come up with
00:56:59
insurance for guarantees independence,
00:57:02
these are the things, and besides, yes, from the
00:57:06
point of view of a place in the state
00:57:08
apparatus, the same thing was important
00:57:12
to get key opportunities, that is,
00:57:15
more power, less responsibility,
00:57:18
and so, actually, I came across a
00:57:21
blank wall and it’s
00:57:23
also interesting that Boris
00:57:27
Nikolaevich gave
00:57:28
his orders ordered to promote me
00:57:30
and
00:57:32
expand the department of judicial reform,
00:57:35
but the tsar doesn’t favor the huntsman,
00:57:40
I would have to leave;
00:57:44
on the contrary, the department was reduced and
00:57:48
made an ordinary unit of the
00:57:50
presidential administration, which was
00:57:54
no longer responsible for the development of the court system, but simply
00:57:58
for the functioning of recording all
00:58:01
kinds of current papers and water for approval
00:58:04
indicating the projects, indicating and so on, so
00:58:07
that
00:58:08
the development at that moment was
00:58:11
canceled by the parcels and the
00:58:14
very last thing I did was move
00:58:18
to the apparatus of the State Duma, but I
00:58:25
thought about what kind of communist affairs then I had basically no communist
00:58:27
attitude,
00:58:28
I sat peacefully in my office and
00:58:33
wrote model y for now for the CIS country I
00:58:38
was the chairman of this development, which
00:58:40
means I wrote a project that
00:58:44
subsequently gained approval from the
00:58:46
interparliamentary assembly I finished
00:58:50
this work and went to court a
00:58:55
sad story about our fierce opera
00:58:58
squad and the ice cream calls was a very
00:59:02
fierce opera 3g fierce and he checked the
00:59:07
condition a student of morality, and
00:59:11
when they knocked on one young lady’s door, she
00:59:15
didn’t open it for a long time, then she opened it, they started
00:59:18
looking under the bed, they looked in the closet to close it, there was
00:59:21
no one there, and one of the detachment officers
00:59:24
leaned out of the window and there stood a
00:59:28
young man, part of it was the eighth
00:59:30
floor, and he
00:59:33
regretted it and
00:59:35
said that There’s no one there either, the young lady
00:59:38
fainted, I had to resuscitate her,
00:59:43
not with me, of course, the funny number is not
00:59:45
the most fun, but after that it’s such a funny
00:59:49
story with my classmates, he’s a great
00:59:52
lawyer, invincible now, and one day in the
00:59:56
library his briefcase was taken away, he
00:59:59
rushed after the villain and didn’t catch up here he
01:00:03
runs more cheerfully with these documents, he went to
01:00:07
our department of the Moscow State University and Mr. Captain was sitting there, I
01:00:10
won’t mention his last name, it’s
01:00:13
characteristic and that means he told him
01:00:17
Perovsky’s nose got out of here, he showed him his
01:00:19
lawyer’s license, okay,
01:00:22
we’ll register it, you know, we
01:00:23
won’t do anything anyway let's
01:00:26
write that your briefcase was in the car
01:00:29
so that it was stolen yesterday from the main
01:00:33
building from the gas, you still won't
01:00:37
get yours and we won't have two hangers 1
01:00:42
car was not found the party is being traded one
01:00:45
hanger on
01:00:47
wrote written then done
01:00:50
ended well the
01:00:51
villain abandoned in the mailbox documents
01:00:54
day this was appropriated document 1 note I
01:00:58
need to cry but a lawyer okay I’ll tell
01:01:02
you a lawyer a
01:01:04
hereditary lawyer my classmate at
01:01:06
military training I kept him on the bottom bunk
01:01:10
on the top and he always jumped up and dust
01:01:13
from the government mattress fell on me the
01:01:15
mattress
01:01:18
can dump his memory of connections the fight will
01:01:23
say that they are counting on him,
01:01:30
please tell me why
01:01:33
you went specifically to the court, not at the level of the
01:01:38
Supreme Court. Above, something much is reflected,
01:01:42
as they say, to work on the land, that is,
01:01:45
what was connected with the feeling, well, it
01:01:48
was necessary to work on the land, otherwise they will say
01:01:51
that they are cut off from the earth theorist did
01:01:55
nasty things to us with his judicial reform, so I
01:01:57
decided to experience it
01:02:01
the hard way, so I went to the Moscow City Court and then
01:02:04
I had another idea, the thing is that the jury got into the
01:02:06
Moscow Regional
01:02:08
Court and was able to be
01:02:12
included, but
01:02:13
in my brain it wasn’t, thanks also to
01:02:17
the position Luzhkov,
01:02:19
who explained this matter
01:02:22
simply and clearly, he said, and you
01:02:25
present me with a business plan for what we will
01:02:28
get from your jury trial, but
01:02:31
where does the business plan for a jury trial come from? It’s not about
01:02:33
fairness to talk to Yuri
01:02:36
Mikhailovich like this, and the
01:02:38
Moscow City Duma itself was supported by
01:02:41
the chairman of the time I supported the Moscow City Duma,
01:02:46
but it’s clear that the governor is more important than
01:02:50
all the deputies and ammunition is always more important than
01:02:54
the constitution, so it didn’t work out for Moscow,
01:02:57
so when I went there, Ivanna
01:03:01
Root I made one
01:03:03
promise
01:03:05
that the first jury trial in
01:03:08
Moscow would be mine, so that’s what we
01:03:11
agreed on and I went to the first
01:03:13
instance to work in the judicial panel
01:03:16
on criminal cases, what struck you most was the
01:03:19
cat, did you start working or this is
01:03:21
what you never expected,
01:03:23
what you will have to face in the
01:03:25
activities of a judge on earth, little
01:03:28
surprised me because thank God I am from
01:03:33
them I was not a theorist cut off from
01:03:35
the earth, but on the contrary, rather like Antaeus
01:03:39
received strength upon contact with the
01:03:41
earth, because I could observe how
01:03:46
the courts were structured, how they worked in different
01:03:48
regions, as an official of the
01:03:51
presidential administration, I had them all and
01:03:53
congresses, not to mention the fact that I
01:03:56
served as the supreme court of the union and also
01:03:59
understood something about how paperwork was conducted
01:04:01
and what was really going on;
01:04:03
in fact, the supreme court of the
01:04:06
union was very small; there
01:04:11
were only ten judges, and in fact,
01:04:13
another 15 joined them; these were the
01:04:17
chairmen of the supreme courts of the
01:04:19
union republics that is, 25 people, but always
01:04:22
10 people Comrade, that is, I knew everyone and
01:04:25
everyone knew me, and at the same time I read the
01:04:29
works that they wrote theoretically and
01:04:33
could even argue with them, which means we
01:04:36
discussed their texts, but that’s what
01:04:40
struck me but struck me, for example, the desire
01:04:45
the leadership of the court to
01:04:47
keep abreast of
01:04:50
all specific court decisions in
01:04:53
which the authorities are interested there are
01:04:55
some trifles, my first case
01:04:58
was the case of a man who killed and
01:05:01
dismembered his neighbor and drowned him in the
01:05:04
Moscow river, this is not interesting, but if we are talking about
01:05:08
in the BSP, that is when the FSB
01:05:13
is interested in the day or when the
01:05:17
attention of the union, that is, the
01:05:19
Russian structures of the federal structures, is focused on the case,
01:05:22
then the leadership considers it its duty to be curious, to
01:05:26
set them on the path of
01:05:28
truth, and so on, but I expected this, but
01:05:31
of course it unpleasantly struck me, I
01:05:35
was also surprised by two things
01:05:38
that no systems for ensuring the appearance of
01:05:41
witnesses,
01:05:43
this means that people do
01:05:46
not go to court and
01:05:48
you either pretend that this is the way it should be and
01:05:52
must read out their testimony, which is
01:05:54
illegal, or you must call
01:05:59
these people yourself and persuade them to threaten them with
01:06:02
writing a paper, which,
01:06:06
however, is not carried out by local
01:06:08
units Why do I need this, it’s just
01:06:12
pointless trouble, that’s when I outlined
01:06:16
these considerations for Ivan, not the root, she
01:06:20
started a group in court to ensure attendance, that
01:06:25
is, some special police officers
01:06:27
accredited with the judge appeared, I
01:06:30
think this is good, and the second thing
01:06:32
completely amazed me that prosecutors have
01:06:35
their own abode, their own little room,
01:06:37
lawyers no so very typically they
01:06:42
take the case for review and they have
01:06:45
nowhere to go, they sit in the
01:06:47
Moscow City Court then there was a
01:06:51
gallery with two staircases that led to the
01:06:54
gallery from the locker room from the wardrobe and the
01:06:57
lawyers there grabbed the steel and there were
01:07:01
three tables and it was cold there, icy
01:07:05
cold and here they are they were sitting in their coats and making
01:07:07
noises, shaking and against the wall and with whose hands they were
01:07:10
making notes for themselves, while the bosses kept
01:07:14
saying, God forbid, to be
01:07:16
noticed in a conversation with a lawyer,
01:07:20
so there were some strange
01:07:23
things that classmates, the judge and the lawyer,
01:07:26
pretended not to notice each other and
01:07:29
they don’t greet each other, this is a
01:07:31
cultivated lawyer, not just a
01:07:33
stepson, but he’s also some kind of
01:07:36
enemy or something like justice, you
01:07:38
can expect all sorts of
01:07:40
dirty tricks from him,
01:07:41
so my good traditions are to
01:07:45
invite the prosecutor and lawyer to the family to
01:07:47
drink tea and discuss some kind of a complex
01:07:50
question, of course, caused such surprise
01:07:53
why, since it’s generally
01:07:56
possible to talk to a lawyer, but this
01:07:59
surprised me, but there were some other strange
01:08:03
moments, for example, when the judge, the
01:08:08
prosecutor, refused to charge the department,
01:08:12
there were two corpses, the prosecutor refused to
01:08:15
charge, the judge figured out how
01:08:17
this refusal not to be taken into account,
01:08:20
what the constitutional court just said if the
01:08:22
prosecutor refused,
01:08:25
no, what should I do? I
01:08:29
ask her what dumpling for some reason she
01:08:32
tells me how I’ve worked for 17 years, I have
01:08:35
n’t acquitted anyone, what am I going to
01:08:38
justify now, and then you you understand that
01:08:41
I have now been declared acquitted of
01:08:43
two corpses and he will be released in the courtroom, this is
01:08:47
no longer possible, that is, people had such an
01:08:50
effectively demonstrative
01:08:52
presentation of justice, it was
01:08:55
quite strange, that is, this is not true, this is
01:08:57
what a group that
01:09:00
works according to its own laws which is in the
01:09:04
presumption of innocence apparently they don’t believe in
01:09:06
adversarialism they don’t believe in the
01:09:08
decision of the constitutional court it takes
01:09:11
into account if it corresponds to
01:09:13
group norms and if it doesn’t correspond then to
01:09:15
torpedo
01:09:19
is it true that you brought a large number of
01:09:23
acquittals
01:09:25
sen percent as in Stalin’s time but
01:09:29
more than in the Russian up to more more more
01:09:31
but in general regional and
01:09:34
city courts always handed down a little
01:09:36
more acquittals than districts, and
01:09:39
I actually had more than my
01:09:41
colleagues, but the
01:09:43
Supreme Court did not overturn them, so I
01:09:46
guess I was so lucky;
01:09:49
I got cases with innocent people; these are the types of
01:09:52
cases you remember most when
01:09:54
you were with I’m not
01:09:56
afraid of that not so interesting for the general
01:09:59
public
01:10:00
because I remember cases with
01:10:04
complex legal conflicts,
01:10:06
for example, my very first decision was
01:10:10
not in a trial,
01:10:13
but when brought to trial, what is now
01:10:16
called preliminary and serves as a
01:10:18
decision to exclude
01:10:20
evidence from the proceedings; this
01:10:24
decision was canceled by the judicial panels for in
01:10:26
criminal cases of the Supreme Court, I
01:10:28
wrote a submission to the Presidium of the
01:10:31
Supreme Court and the Presidium restored
01:10:33
my decisions, that is, for my colleagues it was an
01:10:37
amazing thing, since they
01:10:40
believed that evidence should not be
01:10:42
excluded from the proceedings, especially at
01:10:46
this moment, but only when the verdict
01:10:49
will be the pilot then and yes In general, why do
01:10:51
you need to exclude the evidence? The
01:10:53
signature is written below, that is, everything is fine, the
01:10:56
protocol is all fine, this is what I
01:11:00
liked,
01:11:01
I remembered such precedent stories, the interpretations are
01:11:06
quite complex, doubts are allowed
01:11:10
when it is interpreted in favor of the
01:11:13
accused, when in favor of the people whom
01:11:17
he says that they tortured him, this is
01:11:20
special such a
01:11:22
work in May, a
01:11:24
precedent-setting court decision, I was
01:11:27
told that he was snapped up like
01:11:30
hot cakes, I wrote there that the court
01:11:33
has no reason
01:11:34
to trust the words of a possible victim more
01:11:39
than the statements of the alleged
01:11:42
torturers, that’s what I wrote in
01:11:44
the verdict and in the end I interpreted
01:11:47
the doubt in favor of the defendant and declared
01:11:49
his initial recognition as having no
01:11:52
legal force,
01:11:54
but one of my most famous decisions, the
01:11:57
general public, which
01:12:00
was discussed a lot, scolded me strongly 6 years
01:12:03
suspended sentence 10 years suspended sentence for murder, yes,
01:12:06
this was the decision,
01:12:08
but in fact there were many very
01:12:10
interesting decisions
01:12:12
for me in mostly memorable on the
01:12:15
legal side, of course, they are, in
01:12:17
fact,
01:12:19
once, here are the same facts, the case of a
01:12:23
gang of black realtors and the
01:12:27
man who drove them,
01:12:31
according to the investigation, he is a participant, his fate
01:12:35
means he has the same punishment as
01:12:38
everyone else within the same limits,
01:12:41
and in prison he has already begun to
01:12:45
cough up his lungs he had tuberculosis
01:12:47
in an open form, but it is clear that he was in the
01:12:50
hospital there, but what kind of treatment was there
01:12:53
and
01:12:54
the first thing I did was release him from
01:12:57
custody and then but mine were tried and the
01:13:02
punishment was suspended for this guy, the
01:13:05
drivers said that he did not know
01:13:07
that these were bandits, but not everything was so
01:13:10
simple, but I remember how his mother came to
01:13:15
my office, the
01:13:17
verdict had already entered into legal force, everything
01:13:20
was fine and she started
01:13:24
near the door, fell to her knees and crawled to the
01:13:26
table and I rushed and and lift it
01:13:30
means in In the end, she explained to me whose
01:13:33
mother she was and she said that thanks to the fact
01:13:36
that I then released him from
01:13:37
custody, he remained alive, they
01:13:41
treated him with badger fat and something else in a sanatorium
01:13:44
of some kind, and so he saved him and they locked
01:13:48
him up these caverns,
01:13:50
well, this is of course not a
01:13:56
complex legal decision,
01:13:59
but this is an element of justice. It’s
01:14:03
interesting that when I was expelled from
01:14:06
the judges, the
01:14:09
chairman of the then qualification
01:14:11
board, I won’t mention her name,
01:14:13
screamed
01:14:15
how you could release him from custody,
01:14:19
he’s the carrier of the bacillus, screamed at me and
01:14:22
I humbly then said that,
01:14:26
firstly, there is a presumption of
01:14:29
innocence,
01:14:30
he was considered innocent at that time, and
01:14:33
secondly, even if he is guilty of his act,
01:14:36
there is no death penalty, but if I had
01:14:39
left him in custody by everyday life and died, I did
01:14:43
n’t accept it, I didn’t accept it, say
01:14:49
that’s
01:14:50
why, after all, here you are they said that they began
01:14:53
to squeeze out of the judicial system
01:14:56
when something with which one can only
01:15:00
guess
01:15:02
means there are actually two explanations,
01:15:05
one is quite simple, in the court a
01:15:11
fight was in full swing for the position of chairman,
01:15:14
all the
01:15:16
deputy chairmen were in favor and the bathroom was
01:15:19
rooted, which had been resigning for
01:15:22
several weeks or months until they were in the
01:15:25
role of acting
01:15:27
various forces pulled them to this post, in the
01:15:30
end Olga
01:15:31
Aleksandrovna Egorova won, and for some reason they
01:15:34
considered me a candidate, they
01:15:36
couldn’t forget that I still served in the
01:15:39
presidential administration and was in the
01:15:41
personnel reserve
01:15:42
for filling such a high post, but
01:15:47
I never dreamed of it it was not at all
01:15:49
interesting to command someone to
01:15:51
lead, but secondly, yes, of course, I got tired of the fact
01:15:55
that acquittals are made,
01:15:58
some non-trivial decisions are applied,
01:16:01
and
01:16:03
the person who
01:16:05
acts as a black sheep will sooner or
01:16:09
later become a little stuffed from him,
01:16:12
this is my explanation, but the
01:16:15
simplest if you don’t share group
01:16:18
values, but you live in accordance with
01:16:22
official norms, then you won’t get along for
01:16:26
weeks,
01:16:27
it’s still
01:16:30
Mother Catherine the Second, they kept you, they slandered you, not just what I’m comparing, but a
01:16:35
similar situation, he was the
01:16:39
governor and everywhere you created against him
01:16:41
because he
01:16:44
did everything somehow, for example, they wrote a
01:16:47
denunciation against him that he brought a bear to court, sat
01:16:51
him down in the chair and told
01:16:54
you now 1 those present
01:16:57
Catherine reacted strangely to this,
01:17:00
she said, but it’s probably his own fault since he
01:17:03
can’t get along anywhere the UN is against us
01:17:07
borrowing stepped with bribes fought
01:17:09
and she said this, but then he brought him closer
01:17:14
to her, she made the office secretary, she
01:17:17
suffered a lot from him, but in
01:17:20
her
01:17:21
forbearance she endured one day he
01:17:25
read her a case, she was going to go have
01:17:27
fun, but he didn’t let her in and grabbed
01:17:30
her by the sleeve of her robe when he
01:17:33
tried break out next time an
01:17:35
attempt on the life of a special sovereign next
01:17:39
time she ordered her adjutant
01:17:40
to be present at the reading, the maiden said
01:17:43
that you are a brother, watch out, otherwise this gentleman
01:17:46
almost killed me just now, and so Derzhavin
01:17:51
could not resist, although he
01:17:55
drinks from the law in the
01:17:58
end after all the ups and downs you
01:18:01
left and the judicial system
01:18:03
and
01:18:05
what areas of activity you planned for yourself,
01:18:08
taking into account the
01:18:11
restrictions that you had,
01:18:14
I didn’t have any restrictions and it was an
01:18:16
honorable resignation. I had
01:18:20
restrictions related to the fact that I could not, for
01:18:22
example, engage in entrepreneurship,
01:18:24
but
01:18:27
teach it from I taught I was
01:18:29
invited to the United States and I
01:18:34
lived there teaching for six months, it’s not bad at all
01:18:38
to tell you about the article, you actually
01:18:41
saw the
01:18:43
Russian Soviet education system, it’s probably necessary at that
01:18:46
moment more of Soviet childhood
01:18:48
remained what is the fundamental difference between
01:18:51
American education,
01:18:54
well, it’s hard to say, I
01:18:57
didn’t specifically ask this question I studied what catches the eye,
01:18:59
this is, firstly,
01:19:02
exaggerated and the fight against inequality
01:19:04
because, for example, when people enter
01:19:07
Harvard they
01:19:10
require not only knowledge, but also
01:19:13
they are given quotas and passing
01:19:18
percentages for skin color and sexual
01:19:22
orientation, it is considered that
01:19:26
people should be recruited
01:19:30
on the basis of the so-called dispersion, that
01:19:33
is, representatives of national
01:19:36
minorities, sexual minorities,
01:19:38
racial ones must have a uniform, and
01:19:41
for me it was strange because it seems
01:19:45
like we didn’t have something like that, or if you like, it
01:19:50
was, but in a slightly different version, a
01:19:53
party advantage to
01:19:56
former soldiers, regardless of their
01:19:59
ability to understand what an easement
01:20:01
or antithesis is, well,
01:20:03
money played a role, of course, we
01:20:07
don’t have that, money plays a role not in
01:20:11
the sense that the teacher is oily, but
01:20:13
in the sense that
01:20:15
if you pay for your education, then at
01:20:19
Harvard it’s very expensive, but let’s
01:20:22
say where- then in Minnesota
01:20:26
this is cheaper, but to bring in and bribe there is
01:20:31
no such thing, these are serious circumstances, these
01:20:34
are the first 2, there is a lot of freedom, because
01:20:37
then
01:20:38
we didn’t understand how you can freely
01:20:41
choose courses for yourself or get yourself a
01:20:47
certain number of courses based on some score, not for
01:20:50
students for students, yes, these are two
01:20:53
circumstances that of course
01:20:56
seemed interesting to me, unexpected,
01:20:59
and compare the students, our students and their
01:21:03
student, there is some difference, their
01:21:06
students are very motivated, and firstly,
01:21:09
when you teach,
01:21:13
you must be prepared for the
01:21:17
soul to be taken out of you and you are already going to
01:21:19
put it off and still there will be 120
01:21:23
people who are twisting you, scaring you
01:21:25
with theirs, demanding the Sabbath and leading them even more
01:21:29
into courses to reach the very bottom, then the
01:21:32
money is paid, the money is strong and secondly, an
01:21:37
American student is not inclined to
01:21:41
indulge a slacker,
01:21:44
let’s say if someone is cheating an
01:21:46
American student He will definitely
01:21:48
report this and when asked what you are doing, he
01:21:52
says plywood, I want him to be a good
01:21:54
specialist, that’s how we don’t have such a
01:22:00
conspiracy against the authorities, we need to
01:22:04
calmly look at how they cheat and cheat
01:22:08
there, back in my time they distributed tickets
01:22:12
from what was called going with a bomb when
01:22:17
the teacher is distracted, it means they
01:22:20
shove the written tickets at each other,
01:22:23
distribute them the wrong time, everything he can
01:22:26
answer is absolutely impossible in
01:22:30
America, you
01:22:32
can say Protestant morality, but
01:22:36
you can say that everything is real and the third thing
01:22:38
that
01:22:39
surprised me a little is
01:22:42
the education is highly specialized, that
01:22:45
is, a person knows for why does he
01:22:47
actually go into this very patch and
01:22:51
there are things that he may not know, well,
01:22:56
for example, he may not know whether there is a
01:22:59
death penalty in his state, this is completely
01:23:02
unimportant, his favorite saying is not a
01:23:05
professorship there, it’s think like a lawyer, think like a
01:23:08
lawyer, that is, there they don’t focus on memory, but rather on
01:23:12
thinking, because if a person
01:23:15
thinks like a lawyer, maybe we’ll
01:23:17
pick up precedents, but he has to pick them up thinking
01:23:22
like a lawyer, and this is completely different; we rely
01:23:27
on memory; here we have all sorts of tickets
01:23:30
that are difficult to learn and this is in many ways
01:23:33
completely useless thing,
01:23:39
having returned to Russia, one of the areas of
01:23:42
our activity was the presence on
01:23:44
federal channels and
01:23:45
you were
01:23:48
television judges, and
01:23:51
even the guys from our team
01:23:54
admitted that
01:23:56
your appearance on television influenced the
01:24:00
choice of a subsequent career, they usually
01:24:02
tell me that my grandmother
01:24:04
watched
01:24:08
you as a child took away from these programs, that is,
01:24:11
it was useful for you
01:24:14
in a professional sense and in terms of
01:24:17
how you learned how people react
01:24:20
to some things, then I made a good experience
01:24:23
because before I
01:24:27
had no television experience, but I watched the whole kitchen and
01:24:30
now when I look at all these
01:24:32
programs, a lot is clear to me, a
01:24:36
good experience, a
01:24:39
good team, because they
01:24:43
were real lawyers and you had a nice conversation with them
01:24:46
and had a good time and
01:24:50
interesting
01:24:52
plots,
01:24:54
although these cases were
01:24:57
not taken from the court shelf 2 from
01:25:01
the office and these cases were described
01:25:04
by scriptwriters for example, no one
01:25:08
restrained me, this was a condition of her participation
01:25:10
in the projects of my participation in what
01:25:13
decision I would make, I made my decisions
01:25:15
but it was not known to anyone before I
01:25:18
just yours,
01:25:20
besides this,
01:25:22
these processes had some strange
01:25:26
influence on judicial practice because
01:25:30
people they began to talk when they came to the courts and
01:25:32
it will take me and my colleague, so again you
01:25:35
said and now they are coming to us and demanding this is
01:25:38
what they are going below, he referred to the
01:25:40
restoration of the constitution, what is the
01:25:42
resolution, yes, this is how it
01:25:46
contributed, that is, people believe in what is
01:25:49
happening on the screen and since I’m
01:25:51
not lying and refer to a real decision,
01:25:54
they start using them, but what
01:25:58
seemed especially important to me from different
01:26:01
regions began to write that judges are starting to
01:26:04
behave differently, for example, they
01:26:06
thank you for your testimony, I’ve gotten into the habit of
01:26:10
saying thank you for showing me,
01:26:11
please sit down here alone judges judged
01:26:14
it, I liked it, so it was
01:26:17
such an aesthetically effective effect and I
01:26:20
think it’s important, but I got
01:26:22
quite a valuable experience,
01:26:27
a lot of young lawyers are watching us, you
01:26:29
’re starting your career so you
01:26:33
can tell them, we can give you
01:26:36
some kind of parting words,
01:26:38
well, parting words I’m not old enough,
01:26:42
we have now started to introduce the institution of
01:26:46
mentors, I still think
01:26:50
some kind of elders are sitting, it teaches people leaning on a
01:26:53
staff, it’s
01:26:55
very difficult to mentor people,
01:26:58
I’ve always adhered to a simple motto:
01:27:02
do what you have to and come what may,
01:27:04
but whether everyone will like it, I don’t know
01:27:07
because that we, the Russian intelligentsia,
01:27:10
always make a choice between the
01:27:13
Sevryugin Constitution and with horseradish or
01:27:16
who to rip off wrote Saltykov-Shchedrin,
01:27:19
this seems to me very accurate, so
01:27:22
people themselves must make their choice, it
01:27:25
is clear that following some ideal
01:27:31
does not lead to career growth, unfortunately,
01:27:34
maybe for these purposes, it is better
01:27:36
to learn how to fry shish kebab or
01:27:40
select brooms well in the bathhouse for the governing
01:27:44
body, but on the other hand, there are people with a
01:27:48
different soup,
01:27:49
look at all the cultures, what awaits us there is a
01:27:53
court, what kind of court of Osiris can there be, or
01:27:58
our private Christian-style court, a walk on the
01:28:01
blade over a hyena as in Islam,
01:28:09
Vysotsky is right, I have that AIDS, having appeared
01:28:13
before the Almighty, I have something to justify myself
01:28:15
to him, but I need to decide before
01:28:18
people will make excuses for windows,
01:28:21
thank you very much for the interview, we
01:28:24
will be glad if you continue to
01:28:30
please our viewers with your stories and
01:28:34
maybe some- then in a new format I’m always
01:28:37
ready to amuse your viewers and
01:28:39
thank you for being interested, come and
01:28:42
work, thank you colleagues,
01:28:45
subscribe to our channel and remember
01:28:47
that lawyers are people too
01:28:52
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01:28:59
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01:29:00
and
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Сергей Пашин о выборе профессии, суде присяжных и поэзии 📚 Подписывайтесь на наш канал и помните: Юристы тоже люди! Высказывания участников выпуска отражают сугубо их мнение, которое не выражает мнение остальных героев видео и может не совпадать с позицией ведущих, других участников и членов команды Moscow Lawyers. 0:00:00 – вступление 0:03:05 – почему Сергей Пашин решил стать юристом? 0:04:04 – какие вузы Сергей Пашин рассматривал для поступления? 0:04:52 – что Сергей Пашин запомнил больше всего во время сдачи вступительных экзаменов в МГУ? 0:05:55 — кто из университетских преподавателей оказал наибольшее влияние на становление Сергея Пашина как юриста? 0:09:53 – почему Сергей Пашин выбрал именно кафедру уголовного процесса? 0:10:58 – о подработках Сергея Пашина во время учебы 0:13:46 – о выборе Сергеем Пашиным профессии после университета 0:14:59 – тема диссертации Сергея Пашина 0:16:15 – как перестройка повлияла на правосознание в стране? 0:18:35 – о членстве Сергея Пашина в КПСС и оперотрядах комсомольцев 0:21:03 – когда Сергей Пашин сделал поворот от науки к практике? 0:24:01 – Сергей Пашин о событиях августа 1991 года 0:28:19 – блиц 0:34:24 – самые серьезные вызовы, которые стояли перед Сергеем Пашиным во время слома советской правовой системы 0:44:01 – почему Сергей Пашин выступал за внедрение суда присяжных? 0:49:17 – задумки Сергея Пашина, которые не удалось реализовать во время работы в Администрации Президента 0:55:10 – почему Сергей Пашин решил перейти на работу в судебную систему? 0:58:53 – печальные истории про оперотряд комсомольцев, где работал Сергей Пашин 1:01:28 – почему Сергей Пашин не пошел в судьи Верховного или Высшего Арбитражного судов? 1:03:18 – что больше всего поразило Сергея Пашина в работе судьей? 1:09:19 – сколько оправдательных приговоров вынес Сергей Пашин? 1:09:53 – какие дела больше всего запомнились Сергею Пашину? 1:14:50 – почему Сергея Пашина стали «выдавливать» из судебной системы? 1:17:59 – какие направления деятельности Сергей Пашин планировал после ухода из судебной системы? 1:18:37 – в чем коренное отличие российской и американской систем образования? 1:21:00 – наши студенты vs американские студенты 1:23:38 – что Сергей Пашин вынес для себя из работы на телевидении? 1:26:25 – пожелание Сергея Пашина молодым юристам 1:28:00 – завершение Следите за нами в социальных сетях: Moscow lawyers ВК: https://vk.com/msk.lawyers Fb: https://www.facebook.com/moscow.lawyers2016 Instagram: @msklawyers TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@moscow_lawyers Аудиоверсию выпуска (подкаст) слушайте по адресу: https://soundcloud.com/moscow-lawyers Masters' School - Школа Мастеров ВК: https://vk.com/mstr_schl Fb: https://www.facebook.com/mstrschl Instagram: @masters_school Телеграм-канал ведущего Moscow lawyers - Анонимный Молотников https://t.me/AMolotnikov2020

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