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00:00:01
[Music]
00:00:10
welcome to the show
00:00:12
i'm zerlina maxwell we have a lot to get
00:00:14
to
00:00:15
on this monday night we'll preview
00:00:17
tomorrow's first hearing by the
00:00:18
committee investigating january 6th
00:00:21
plus we have a lot of olympic action and
00:00:23
activism to unpack
00:00:25
tonight with gold medalist dominique
00:00:27
dawes and i am so excited about that one
00:00:30
but we begin tonight with where we are
00:00:32
in the course of this pandemic
00:00:34
and just how we got here it's not going
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to be good
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we're going in the wrong direction if
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you look at the inflection of the curve
00:00:43
of new cases and as you said
00:00:45
in the run-in to this interview that it
00:00:48
is among the unvaccinated and since we
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have
00:00:51
50 percent of the country is not fully
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vaccinated
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that's a problem particularly when you
00:00:58
have a variant
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like delta which has this extraordinary
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characteristic of being able to spread
00:01:04
very efficiently and very easily from
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person to person
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so we're going in the wrong direction
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and the numbers back dr fauci up covet
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infections are up 47
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in just the past week and
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hospitalizations are up
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32 the biggest surge is in the state of
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florida which is still producing
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one in every five new coveted infections
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nationwide
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in orlando the icu at one large hospital
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is now completely full and over 90
00:01:37
percent of the covid patients in that
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hospital
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are not vaccinated nationwide only 49
00:01:44
of americans are fully vaccinated among
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people 12 and older who are
00:01:48
eligible just 57 percent are fully
00:01:51
vaccinated
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and according to a new poll 81 percent
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of people who haven't gotten the vaccine
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say they probably or definitely won't
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get it
00:02:01
even some people who have gotten sick
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with kovid say
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they won't get the shot like this man in
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louisiana
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who was hospitalized with pneumonia and
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must be studied must be studied
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if you would have had a chance to get
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the vaccine and prevent this would you
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have taken the vaccine
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so you'd have gone through this i've
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gone through this yes sir don't shove it
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down my throat
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that's what local
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state federal administration is trying
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to do to shove it down your throat what are
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they shoving the science
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no they're showing the fact that that's
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their agenda the agenda is to get you
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vaccinated
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okay okay okay first of all he's right
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there is a government agenda to get
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people vaccinated
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just like the government has had agendas
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to get people to wear seat belts and to
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stop smoking
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and now some government agencies are
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saying enough is enough on people
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refusing vaccines
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and they're starting to mandate it just
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today the mayor of new york city
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announced that all 340
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000 city workers from teachers to police
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will have to either get vaccinated or
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get weekly testing
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also today the governor of california
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announced that all 246
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000 state workers there will have to be
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vaccinated
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or get tested regularly and the va
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announced that it will require
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that all of its healthcare workers get
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the vaccine
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which makes it the first federal agency
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to institute
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a mandate so this is what it's come to
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america
00:03:33
my question tonight is how the heck did
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we get to this point
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joining me now is eddie glaud he's the
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chair of the department of african
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american studies
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at princeton university and nbc news
00:03:44
contributor his book begin again
00:03:46
which i highly recommend james baldwin's
00:03:48
america and its urgent lessons for our
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own
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comes out in paperback tomorrow so eddie
00:03:54
professor loud you tweeted today that
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america's quote
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basic commitment to a moral and social
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contract
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seems to have been tossed in the trash
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bit lay out for us what you mean in relation
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to kovid and the the refusal of basically
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a third of our population to get this
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vaccine
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so covetous reveal thank you so much
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darlene the covert has revealed so much
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about
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um our society right the breakages
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uh the civic breakages it's revealed uh
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the trouble with our health care system
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it has revealed
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the deep inequality uh that defines
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every aspect of our society but it's
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also
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kind of demonstrated uh the way in which
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our civic relationships to each other
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have kind of in some ways collapsed and
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i think it has everything to do with
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this conception of liberty and freedom
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that has become in some ways
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liberty and freedom have become synonyms
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for selfishness
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the deep distrust of government that has
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been a part of a political ideology for
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the last 40 years
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has led folk to believe that there's no
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real robust conception of the public
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good that they ought to be invested in so you
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have people in the shadow of 614
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000 americans dead feeling no
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responsibility to those dead
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feeling no responsibility to each other
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and so like the man in louisiana
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his whole idea is that government is
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trying to shove something down my throat
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as opposed to thinking about his own
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responsibility to the community with
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which within with within which he lives and so
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part of what
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covett has revealed is kind of a kind of
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canary in the minds orlina
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showing us that the problem with
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democracy our democracy goes beyond
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just simply the ideology of trumpism it
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goes to the very way in which we think
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of our relationship to each other
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and our obligation to each other so
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we're in deep trouble we're in deep
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trouble
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this makes me think back to the
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beginning of the pandemic
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so in march and april of last year when
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we were first getting hit really really
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hard certainly in new york and
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california
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uh we're getting hit especially hard and
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i just remember
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everybody was like oh we have to lock
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down we have to stay home we're going to
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take all the precautions people were
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were really scared because we didn't
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know what to expect
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and then there were reports that there
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was a disproportionate impact on
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communities of color
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and that more people of color were
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passing away from cobit 19
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and just like that i remember jared
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kushner on tv saying we're going to be
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rocking by july
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now he was completely wrong because it's
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july 2021
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and we're still not rocking um but i i
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can't help but wonder
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if the fact that it was being reported
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that covid was a problem for black people and
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brown people
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and if you're relatively healthy you'll
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be fine and some people took the message
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that oh that's
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we we need to get back to work we need
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to get the economy open
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it's not it's not my responsibility to
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protect those communities do you see
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that same thing when you think back to
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the beginning of the pandemic
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well you know i think there was a kind
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of moral callousness
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a sense that it's this is not touching
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me
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that death loss and grief
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is yours alone that you should only
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that you would have to deal with it in
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the privacy of your own home
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there were no national rituals of grief
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no
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real recognition of what the country was
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experiencing
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you heard the lieutenant governor of
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texas you remember talking about
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elderly people that they that they were
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disposable
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you heard in the public discourse in
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some ways elena this kind of
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rhetoric of that there's some people
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that you know we we will lose but
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because our values were tethered to the
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almighty dollar
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there was this kind of rush to get back
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uh to normal
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and you know there's something there's
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there's a kind of historical precedent
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for this remember the roaring 20s
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you know when we see people doing the
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charleston you see my old here's my
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my charleston example right when the
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roaring 20s is this example of americans
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trying to
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rush past the carnage of world war
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one and the devastation of the influenza
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epidemic of 1919
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right and so part of what we're talking
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about here is this kind of tendency
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in american life to reach for
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the kind of easy answer and in this
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instance that easy the easy answer is
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found in selfishness it seems to me
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i think that is a that's a hard thing to
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hear but i think it it's
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so so on point i remember back when the
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cdc was
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trying to figure out how to do the
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messaging around
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masks and i was like oh the mask is
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really to protect the most vulnerable among us
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because it prevents the spread of the
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disease and i was like oh that's not a
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message that's going to work here
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we don't do that i do this slightly
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inconvenient thing to protect
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other people you have to tell americans
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that the mask is for you
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um do you feel like there are any other
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current
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trends um when we're talking about uh
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the refusal to wear mass the refusal to
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to want to be locked down to get this
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vaccine
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do you see a connection between that
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mindset
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and the mindset of folks that believe
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the big lie or the mindset of folks who
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are still following donald trump
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absolutely we're experiencing and i've
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said this before
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we're experiencing rolling civic power
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outages serena
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from january 6 to the attack on voting
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rights to
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to the attack again you know the violent
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attacks against asian americans to the
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debates around immigration
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rolling civic power allergies where the
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very
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kind of foundation the kind of shall we
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say that the grid that makes our
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democracy possible
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is short-circuiting every other day
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right it seems to me and so i think this is
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part of the
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part of the ongoing crisis we face and
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it's not reducible to
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one particular figure it has everything
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to do with the way of
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life that has defined the country for
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more than a century
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and we have to figure out a different
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way of living together if we're going to
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survive it all
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so i don't want to just talk about the
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problem
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i want to try to figure out what
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possible solutions look like so
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can america recommit to a social
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contract for the common good
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i think so you know i think it has
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everything to do with what are our
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obligations to each other
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we could say to each other zerlina that
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if you get old
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if you get sick we got you there's no
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reason for you to get
00:10:38
go broke because you're sick so that
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obligation is evidenced in our health
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care policy
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we're gonna say to each other if you
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work 40 hours a week
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you should have a living wage that's our
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obligation to each other
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we're going to say to each other that if
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you no matter the color of your skin
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does your zip code where you live well
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we're going to guarantee that every
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child in the united states gets
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not only gets a quality education but
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gets the best education possible so they
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can not only dream dreams but make their
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dreams a reality
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we can begin to legislate our values
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by saying this is at the heart of who we
00:11:10
are not just simply this wild wild west
00:11:13
selfishness where we're kind of in this
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social darwinist mode
00:11:17
where people just do what the hell they
00:11:18
want to do in light of their own
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ambitions and selfish desires
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we can actually announce what we care
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about in the very ways in which we legislate
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i think that is a good path to a
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solution uh for this problem professor
00:11:34
eddie cloud it's been a great
00:11:36
uh conversation with you i hope you'll
00:11:38
come back and continue the conversation
00:11:39
because it's not just one conversation
00:11:41
that solves the problem
00:11:42
we have to continue it thank you so much
00:11:44
for being here tonight and please stay
00:11:45
safe
00:11:47
so just how bad could the pandemic get
00:11:49
this fall
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as the weather starts getting colder two
00:11:53
health experts write in time magazine
00:11:55
that six factors will determine that at the
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top of their list
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local vaccination rates and whether
00:12:01
public health measures like
00:12:03
indoor mass mandates are reinstated in
00:12:05
places where kovid
00:12:07
is currently surging dr naheed bedelia
00:12:09
is one of the co-authors of that piece
00:12:11
she's the director
00:12:12
of the boston university center for
00:12:14
emerging infectious diseases
00:12:16
and an nbc news medical contributor dr
00:12:19
bedelia let's start with the new vaccine
00:12:21
mandates we saw today
00:12:22
do you think we'll see more of these and
00:12:25
um
00:12:26
do you think that they're the right way
00:12:28
to
00:12:29
try to mandate behavior so that people
00:12:32
don't keep spreading coping
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yeah cerino let me let me start with the
00:12:37
the second one
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first i want to reflect to the
00:12:39
conversation that you and professor glad
00:12:41
just had
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i mean a society of individuals that do
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not feel beholden to anybody else around
00:12:48
them
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how long can such a society continue and
00:12:52
that is the tether right that is the
00:12:53
basis of public health but it's not just
00:12:55
about
00:12:56
individual health but it's about how we
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collectively get beyond this
00:13:01
public health emergency and and rather
00:13:03
than in this once in a we know lifetime
00:13:05
once in a hundred years pandemic rather
00:13:07
than us coming closer together what we've
00:13:09
seen is
00:13:10
moving backwards 15 states have
00:13:12
reinstated
00:13:13
15 states have actually made it harder
00:13:15
to have public health powers emergency
00:13:18
powers and in that environment in the
00:13:20
environment where we're seeing exactly
00:13:22
as you said half of the folks um in this country are
00:13:26
fully vaccinated
00:13:27
the other half 85 percent as you said
00:13:30
and i think a full 45 percent of that are basically
00:13:32
saying they definitely will
00:13:34
not get vaccinated how do we get to the
00:13:36
other side of that you know how do we
00:13:37
particularly with delta how do we
00:13:38
achieve this community
00:13:40
immunity if we don't get people
00:13:42
vaccinated and i think mandates
00:13:43
we've done it we've done it with schools
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you know we've seen it
00:13:46
if you work in universities if you're in
00:13:48
hospitals you're already required to
00:13:50
take a certain number of
00:13:52
vaccinations to keep those around you
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safe and i think that this
00:13:55
we've tried the carrots we've we need to
00:13:58
continue answering the questions
00:13:59
removing structural
00:14:00
you know access issues but i think the
00:14:02
mandates will be needed to move us to
00:14:05
the to the next step and i think
00:14:06
what you're seeing with state
00:14:07
governments and what you're seeing with
00:14:09
businesses and employers
00:14:11
uh to participate or as a condition of
00:14:13
employment
00:14:14
i think that that might help us get
00:14:16
closer to that goal and get us out of
00:14:17
this emergency
00:14:20
yeah i think you know if you're getting
00:14:22
to the place where the the guy who's
00:14:24
in the hospital with kovid is saying
00:14:26
like i i just still don't trust it
00:14:28
i feel like mandates are the only way to
00:14:30
go because i cannot figure out how to
00:14:32
convince that
00:14:33
person to get the vaccine if they're
00:14:35
already in the hospital with serious
00:14:37
illness
00:14:38
um some unvaccinated people and these
00:14:40
are some of the good faith questions
00:14:42
that i hear say they don't want to they don't trust
00:14:45
the vaccines they don't want to take the
00:14:46
vaccine
00:14:47
because they don't have full fda
00:14:50
approval yet
00:14:51
so how far away are we from getting the
00:14:53
full fda approval
00:14:55
and for the folks at home that maybe
00:14:57
have this question
00:14:58
what's what's your answer to them
00:15:02
yeah it's really not i'll start by
00:15:03
saying this this is not business as
00:15:05
usual right because
00:15:07
we the evidence that we have for even
00:15:09
for the emergency use authorization is
00:15:11
actually
00:15:12
quite immense the fda just to start with
00:15:14
your first question the fda has actually
00:15:16
said that
00:15:17
um it could be any time up until
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december and and i think that that that
00:15:21
is the the time spent i'm hoping it
00:15:24
might be sooner than that because
00:15:26
there is a plethora of of safety
00:15:28
evidence you know
00:15:29
millions of people you know have taken
00:15:31
these vaccines at this point and so that
00:15:33
track record is there
00:15:34
and i will say that for people who are
00:15:36
concerned about safety as
00:15:38
i'm an infectious diseases physician and
00:15:40
here's what we know about vaccines
00:15:41
most of the i can't think of a single
00:15:43
vaccine where this is not true
00:15:45
uh most of the side effects are within
00:15:47
the first six weeks or two months of
00:15:49
taking a vaccine there really are
00:15:51
no true long-term side effects from
00:15:53
vaccines so
00:15:54
if you've seen people around you have
00:15:56
gotten vaccinated you've seen them get
00:15:58
that safely
00:15:59
it's not the the longer term that we
00:16:01
worry about we worry about
00:16:03
rare side effects the ones that might be
00:16:05
in like one in 10 million one in a
00:16:06
million and we've even picked those
00:16:08
up right there are some rare side
00:16:09
effects but on the whole
00:16:11
these are safe they are completely
00:16:13
changing the shape of the pandemic and
00:16:15
states or vaccination rates are higher
00:16:17
because the deaths and hospitalizations
00:16:19
are not going up at the same rate as in
00:16:21
states that are not as as well
00:16:23
vaccinated and i i gotta tell you i
00:16:25
would i recommend those vaccines to everybody
00:16:27
around me my family
00:16:29
have all gotten and everybody who's
00:16:31
qualified has gotten it and i would
00:16:32
recommend
00:16:33
anybody out there who's listening to go
00:16:34
out and get it if there's no other
00:16:36
contraindications
00:16:40
that is that's such a good point and one
00:16:41
of the other questions i think people
00:16:43
have
00:16:44
not just about the fda authorization and
00:16:46
potential side effects
00:16:48
um but they look sort of longer term and
00:16:50
they're like what are the potential
00:16:52
long-term side effects so you made the
00:16:54
really important point that i want to
00:16:55
parse out
00:16:56
which is that the the side effects show
00:16:58
up very quickly if you are if you
00:17:00
are going to have one of those rare side
00:17:02
effects to the vaccine
00:17:04
let's talk about the long-term side
00:17:05
effects of covid
00:17:07
and the long-haul coveted symptoms that
00:17:09
so many millions of americans are
00:17:11
experiencing
00:17:12
because of covid19 infections because we
00:17:14
don't talk about that enough
00:17:15
and i think that if people were more
00:17:18
afraid of that than they were to
00:17:20
the rare instance where they would have
00:17:22
uh not even a long-term side effect of
00:17:24
the vaccine
00:17:25
um i feel like that would be helpful in
00:17:27
helping them make the right decision
00:17:30
yeah and and the data is you know quite
00:17:32
striking i mean i think we're still
00:17:34
learning about it but there's a signal
00:17:36
because you're seeing even people who
00:17:37
have
00:17:38
mild disease you know a quarter of them
00:17:40
uh six
00:17:41
nine months out still have vague
00:17:43
symptoms they're more severe symptoms
00:17:45
and actually i'm uh
00:17:47
my lab and my group are actually doing
00:17:48
research on low coverage right now and
00:17:51
it is worrisome because what what we
00:17:53
don't understand is was the biological
00:17:55
basis of it and i think as we're
00:17:57
learning that
00:17:58
it's quite clear that once you survive
00:18:00
proportion of people
00:18:01
it completely affects your everyday life
00:18:04
to the point where you may have heard
00:18:05
today the bite administration has said
00:18:06
that this could potentially be covered
00:18:08
under disability which i think is
00:18:10
important because there are people who
00:18:12
really are debilitated now i'll give a personal
00:18:15
reason why you know
00:18:16
i'm i'm vaccinated i'm healthy and and
00:18:19
one of the reasons i got vaccinated
00:18:21
was because i knew that you know maybe
00:18:23
my chance of potentially dying maybe
00:18:25
lower than somebody was over 65 but i
00:18:27
was afraid of actually getting along
00:18:28
coveted because i love
00:18:30
running and i know that people have
00:18:32
completely experienced
00:18:33
a change in their physical ability right
00:18:36
and so that that is one of the reasons
00:18:38
is to be protected from any potential
00:18:41
long-term effects of the disease as well
00:18:45
i feel exactly the same way i love
00:18:47
running i love working out
00:18:49
and if i i didn't have the same lung
00:18:50
capacity or the ability to
00:18:52
exercise or taste food for that matter
00:18:56
people that are saying that they lost
00:18:57
their sense of taste and smell and their
00:18:59
asymptomatic that's a symptom
00:19:01
if you can't taste food that is horrible
00:19:02
that sounds horrible
00:19:04
um so really really important to point
00:19:06
out those long-term effects potentially
00:19:08
doctor dr naheed
00:19:09
thank you so much as always for being
00:19:11
here and helping us understand
00:19:13
this this really pivotal moment in the
00:19:15
pandemic please stay safe
00:19:18
before we go to break i a quick update
00:19:21
on the legal trouble
00:19:22
in donald trump's world the chairman of
00:19:24
donald trump's 2017
00:19:26
inaugural committee appeared before a
00:19:28
federal judge in new york city today
00:19:30
tom barrack pleaded not guilty to
00:19:32
charges that he
00:19:33
acted as a foreign agent on behalf of
00:19:35
the uae
00:19:36
and lied to the fbi barrick was
00:19:38
arraigned in a brooklyn courtroom after
00:19:40
being released from jail in california
00:19:42
on friday he had to post a 250
00:19:46
million dollar bond one of the largest
00:19:50
in the entire history of the united
00:19:51
states that is a lot of coins
00:19:53
wow barrick denies any wrongdoing
00:19:57
wow that is a lot of money i'm sorry i
00:19:58
thought that i just i'm processing
00:20:01
coming up fireworks between republican
00:20:04
congresswoman liz cheney and minority leader kevin
00:20:06
mccarthy ahead of the first hearing
00:20:08
by the select committee investigating
00:20:10
january 6th we'll be right back
00:20:13
the gop should play ball on this
00:20:15
committee you could you could get
00:20:16
three who was that adam and list this
00:20:20
aren't they kind of like pelosi
00:20:21
republicans we're about this very
00:20:22
serious business here we have
00:20:24
important work to do and i think that's
00:20:26
pretty childish
00:20:50
[Music]
00:21:00
foreign
00:21:11
[Music]
00:21:25
[Music]
00:21:38
it's only monday and kevin mccarthy is
00:21:41
having
00:21:42
a really tough week already for kevin
00:21:45
in less than 24 hours the insurrection
00:21:47
committee he's tried
00:21:49
so so hard to stonewall will hold its
00:21:51
very first hearing
00:21:53
its members were hand-picked by speaker
00:21:55
nancy pelosi and despite
00:21:56
opposition from top republicans it will
00:21:59
be bipartisan liz cheney is expected to
00:22:02
serve a leading role and yesterday
00:22:04
adam kinzinger became the second
00:22:06
republican picked by pelosi to serve on
00:22:08
the committee
00:22:09
in a statement kinziger seemed unfazed
00:22:12
by potential backlash from the republican
00:22:15
party and he said quote
00:22:16
i'm a republican dedicated to
00:22:18
conservative values but i swore an oath
00:22:20
to uphold and defend the constitution
00:22:22
and while this is not the position i
00:22:24
expected to be in or sought out
00:22:26
when duty calls i will always answer
00:22:29
now just in case you forgot things
00:22:31
didn't have to be this way
00:22:33
we almost had an independent bipartisan
00:22:36
commission that would have given republicans equal
00:22:38
say and equal subpoena power
00:22:40
but senate republicans killed that
00:22:42
effort mccarthy also had the power to
00:22:44
nominate five members of the current
00:22:46
select committee
00:22:48
which he did but he couldn't do so
00:22:50
without the gems
00:22:52
so after speaker pelosi vetoed two of
00:22:54
his choices the gems i just mentioned
00:22:56
he had his party boycott the panel all
00:22:58
together picked up the toys left the
00:23:00
sandbox
00:23:01
and now with two of his own members
00:23:03
openly defying him
00:23:05
by answering nancy pelosi's call to
00:23:07
serve on this really important committee
00:23:09
mccarthy has resorted to name calling
00:23:14
some republicans have been saying that
00:23:18
the gop should play ball on this
00:23:20
committee you could you could get those
00:23:22
three who was that adam and liz aren't they
00:23:25
kind of like pelosi republicans
00:23:31
kevin mccarthy can kick and scream all
00:23:32
he wants but tomorrow a group of
00:23:34
bipartisan lawmakers
00:23:36
is going to start asking serious
00:23:37
questions about january 6 whether he
00:23:39
likes it or not and i'm here for it
00:23:41
joining me now investigative reporter
00:23:43
for nbc
00:23:44
4 in washington scott mcfarlane and
00:23:47
also with us former republican
00:23:49
congressman and msnbc political analyst
00:23:51
david jolly who is no longer affiliated
00:23:53
with the republican party we always have
00:23:54
to add that in
00:23:56
scott i want to start with you today you
00:23:58
took a trip to the room
00:23:59
where it's all going to happen tomorrow
00:24:01
you literally went to the room where
00:24:02
it's happening
00:24:04
we know the first witnesses at will be a
00:24:06
group of law enforcement
00:24:08
officers who protected the capitol on
00:24:10
january 6.
00:24:11
what are you going to be watching for in
00:24:13
these hearings tomorrow
00:24:15
cerina i'm eager to hear something that
00:24:17
is separate from all these criminal
00:24:19
prosecutions you know
00:24:20
we've been begging for an independent
00:24:23
committee
00:24:24
for somebody to review this holistically
00:24:27
because right now zerlina
00:24:29
all we're doing as reporters is putting
00:24:30
together a puzzle
00:24:32
there have been zero press briefings
00:24:33
from u.s capitol police
00:24:35
zero press briefings from the u.s
00:24:37
justice department so
00:24:39
enterprising reporters have tried to put
00:24:40
a puzzle together going through criminal
00:24:43
cases trying to piece together what
00:24:44
happened january
00:24:45
6th so as people have been asking for
00:24:47
this independent commission or in this
00:24:49
case the select commission
00:24:50
they want a broader look a more a deeper
00:24:54
breadth to finding out what happened january 6.
00:24:57
beyond just the independent
00:24:59
prosecutions and the criminal cases
00:25:00
against defendants perhaps now
00:25:02
we get broader questions answered like
00:25:05
what led up to this
00:25:06
whose idea was it to storm the capital
00:25:09
what were the conditions that led to
00:25:10
january 6th
00:25:12
and how do we prevent that from
00:25:13
happening again
00:25:17
it's such a good point that we really
00:25:19
haven't
00:25:20
gotten any of the answers to many of
00:25:22
these questions and we act like we have
00:25:24
them but we we don't is there an early indication at
00:25:27
this point
00:25:28
as to whether the committee will issue
00:25:30
subpoenas to specific witnesses
00:25:33
like maybe kevin mccarthy or others
00:25:37
some of the members of the committee
00:25:38
have indicated as much these types of
00:25:40
select committees tend to have subpoena
00:25:42
power and tend to use it when they have
00:25:44
it i walked through the hearing room
00:25:45
earlier today and a few things were
00:25:47
noticeable they have all these big
00:25:48
projection
00:25:49
projection tv screens some in front of
00:25:51
the witness table some hanging in the
00:25:53
rafters seems clear there's going to be new
00:25:55
video new images perhaps new documents
00:25:58
shown that's something we all crave because we
00:26:00
know there are so many hours of video
00:26:03
that have yet to be seen
00:26:04
14 000 hours of capital surveillance
00:26:08
video
00:26:09
so far submitted in this case we've seen
00:26:11
just a small fraction of it perhaps
00:26:13
tomorrow we see more
00:26:14
and what accounts do these police
00:26:16
officers have what do they have to say
00:26:18
they haven't said
00:26:19
already we know this committee is going
00:26:20
to try to drill down on things we
00:26:22
haven't heard before zerlina
00:26:24
that's why it's so worth watching
00:26:28
so so true and david do you think liz
00:26:31
cheney and adam kinziger will face
00:26:33
more backlash from kevin mccarthy over
00:26:35
this like what what can he really do at
00:26:37
this point
00:26:39
sure well let's first start with what
00:26:41
we're going to see tomorrow to pick up
00:26:43
on scott's description
00:26:44
look tomorrow will be a very bad day for
00:26:46
kevin mccarthy and republicans because
00:26:49
what it appears the committee wants to
00:26:50
do by having the police officers
00:26:52
be the first to testify is to set the
00:26:54
scene and define the danger
00:26:56
and define how how incredibly perilous
00:27:00
that moment was
00:27:01
recall in republican world these were
00:27:04
these were protesters acting with joy i
00:27:06
think donald trump said one
00:27:08
republican member called them tourists
00:27:09
it looked like a capital tour
00:27:11
what the world will hear tomorrow is the
00:27:13
real danger that our law enforcement
00:27:15
officers were in
00:27:16
and i am confident that they will
00:27:18
testify that the protesters were
00:27:21
were discussing why they were there to
00:27:22
defend donald trump and to undermine the
00:27:25
the fair and free election that had
00:27:27
elected joe biden
00:27:28
that is a bad day for kevin mccarthy and
00:27:31
so when you see kevin mccarthy
00:27:32
take cheap shots at adam kinsinger and
00:27:35
liz mccarthy it's because
00:27:36
adam mccarthy tonight is a gop leader
00:27:39
who is scared
00:27:41
kevin mccarthy is scared tonight i have
00:27:43
served with kevin mccarthy
00:27:45
and when he is embittered or he is
00:27:47
scared he acts childish
00:27:48
he acts petty he won't look you in the
00:27:50
eye he tries to undermine you
00:27:53
this is not one someone who leads by
00:27:55
consensus this is someone who leads by
00:27:57
protecting his own
00:27:58
leadership he knows that's in peril
00:28:00
tomorrow liz cheney knows that as well
00:28:02
as any of his republican colleagues
00:28:07
david he will make eye contact when he's
00:28:10
afraid or uncomfortable
00:28:12
that's very strange hey zerlino a little
00:28:14
inside baseball for you
00:28:15
when john boehner announced he was
00:28:18
stepping down kevin mccarthy was trying
00:28:19
to get enough votes to become speaker
00:28:21
i withheld my vote from kevin mccarthy
00:28:24
and from that moment on if we passed
00:28:25
each other in a hall
00:28:26
he'd look the other way he wouldn't
00:28:28
speak to me i was dead to him like an
00:28:30
ex-girlfriend
00:28:31
but look politically you you take one of
00:28:33
two approaches to serving in public
00:28:35
office you either
00:28:36
take the approach where you demand
00:28:38
absolute loyalty or you take the
00:28:39
approach that you're going to do what's
00:28:41
right for the country
00:28:42
what's right for the congress kevin
00:28:44
takes the former not the latter
00:28:48
that's deep that feels like mean girls
00:28:50
to me but i guess that's how they
00:28:52
do it in the house
00:28:56
okay okay okay okay scott
00:29:00
in all seriousness um this committee
00:29:02
which is is very serious which is i
00:29:04
think why it seems so odd for kevin
00:29:05
mccarthy to be acting like lindsay lohan
00:29:08
um you know this committee is holding
00:29:09
its first hearing as prosecution
00:29:11
surrounding january 6 carry on and
00:29:13
you've been
00:29:14
in the courthouses really looking into
00:29:16
the facts and the details about what
00:29:18
these investigators
00:29:20
are prosecuting these folks for these
00:29:22
folks for and today president biden
00:29:23
nominated
00:29:24
former prosecutor matthew graves to be
00:29:26
the new u.s attorney for the district of
00:29:28
columbia
00:29:29
that's where these cases are taking
00:29:31
place is there any reason to believe
00:29:34
that he'll handle the job differently
00:29:36
than
00:29:37
it has been handled up to this point
00:29:40
that choice got an endorsement from
00:29:41
former federal prosecutor glenn
00:29:43
kirschner who served in the same
00:29:44
courthouse and also got an endorsement
00:29:46
from eleanor holmes norton
00:29:47
the delegate who serves the district of
00:29:49
columbia so they've already gotten two
00:29:50
thumbs up from some stakeholders in the
00:29:52
district
00:29:53
here's what strikes me though serlina as
00:29:54
we as we embark on a hearing tomorrow
00:29:57
we want to figure out where are we on
00:29:58
the timeline with this criminal
00:30:00
investigation what is going to be the
00:30:01
largest criminal investigation in u.s
00:30:03
history
00:30:04
540 plus federal cases filed so far
00:30:08
but it keeps seeming to me like we're
00:30:10
closer to the starting line than the
00:30:11
finishing line
00:30:12
because we've had just two defendants
00:30:14
sentenced to both lower level cases
00:30:16
a handful maybe a couple dozen plea
00:30:18
agreements again mostly in lower level
00:30:20
cases the big
00:30:22
cases where conspiracy is charged where
00:30:25
assault is charged
00:30:26
those cases are so early on for the
00:30:29
large part
00:30:30
many of those defendants being held in
00:30:31
pre-trial detention really you're going
00:30:33
to measure this
00:30:34
in the criminal justice systems arlena
00:30:36
by months and years
00:30:38
not by days and weeks
00:30:42
it's really important contact scott
00:30:43
mcfarlane and david jolly thank you so
00:30:45
much for being here today
00:30:47
on this important week in american
00:30:49
history please stay safe
00:30:51
before we go to break with the tokyo
00:30:53
olympics fully underway
00:30:55
i wanted to highlight a few of my
00:30:57
favorite stories from the first weekend
00:30:58
of action
00:30:59
and i want to start with a new era of
00:31:01
olympic activism
00:31:03
we've gotten used to seeing athletes
00:31:04
take a knee at sporting events in
00:31:06
america over the last few years but
00:31:08
outside of a few rare instances we're
00:31:10
really not used to seeing it in the
00:31:12
olympic games
00:31:13
but this summer has been different
00:31:15
earlier this year the international
00:31:17
olympic committee
00:31:18
changed the rules to allow protests for
00:31:21
the first time ever
00:31:22
and now we're seeing the black lives
00:31:23
matter movement elevated
00:31:25
to the world stage in a huge way the
00:31:27
damage
00:31:28
with demonstrations before several men's
00:31:31
and women's soccer matches
00:31:32
we also saw this really cool moment from
00:31:35
costa rican gymnast luciana alvarado
00:31:38
she finished her floor exercise routine
00:31:40
by taking a knee
00:31:41
and putting her fist in the air alvarado
00:31:43
said she worked it into her routine
00:31:45
because
00:31:46
quote we're all the same and we're all
00:31:48
beautiful and amazing
00:31:49
so i think that's why i love to have it
00:31:52
in my floor routine
00:31:53
another amazing site from the weekend
00:31:55
was in the pool
00:31:57
where one swimmer gave a country in
00:31:59
turmoil a moment of pure joy
00:32:01
for months tunisia has been dealing with
00:32:03
an economic crisis
00:32:05
and a surge of coveted cases and right
00:32:07
now the country is in the midst of what
00:32:08
critics are calling
00:32:10
a coup with the president invoking an
00:32:12
emergency clause
00:32:13
of the constitution firing the nation's
00:32:15
prime minister and freezing powers of
00:32:17
parliament and taking control of
00:32:19
all armed forces following a wave of
00:32:21
protests
00:32:22
with tensions running high in his home
00:32:24
country tunisian swimmer
00:32:26
ahmed hafnaui stunned the world winning
00:32:29
gold
00:32:30
in the men's 400 meter freestyle after
00:32:33
realizing he had won
00:32:34
the 18 year old couldn't contain himself
00:32:36
and who could blame him
00:32:38
that's why we love the olympic games
00:32:40
congratulations ahmed not only
00:32:42
on the gold medal but on giving an
00:32:44
entire nation
00:32:45
something to cheer about coming up after
00:32:49
a recent rash of bad behavior all over
00:32:51
i'm getting into the perils of
00:32:53
shopping while black we'll be right back
00:32:58
[Music]
00:33:18
[Music]
00:33:29
[Music]
00:33:39
[Music]
00:33:53
[Music]
00:34:05
foreign
00:34:12
[Music]
00:34:19
[Music]
00:34:37
in the wake of the derek chauvin verdict
00:34:39
and the number of shooting deaths
00:34:40
against unarmed black people
00:34:41
in cars we've talked a lot about the
00:34:44
fear we as black people have when we're
00:34:46
driving
00:34:47
but it's not just driving moving
00:34:50
throughout the day and doing the simple
00:34:51
everyday tasks and errands that a white
00:34:53
person takes for granted
00:34:55
often comes along with microaggressions
00:34:57
and racist
00:34:58
actions when you have a skin color like
00:35:01
mine
00:35:02
take for example shopping from being
00:35:05
followed by security to being questioned
00:35:07
by cashiers and eyed suspiciously
00:35:09
by fellow customers we've pretty much
00:35:12
seen it all
00:35:13
but then came
00:35:16
facebook post that went viral before it
00:35:19
was taken down
00:35:20
so here's what happened a woman named
00:35:23
trinity bethune
00:35:24
went to buy a car at a honda dealership
00:35:26
in north carolina
00:35:28
when they posted the photo of her with
00:35:30
her newly purchased car last week
00:35:33
they called her vanquisha which
00:35:37
if you've been paying attention the last
00:35:38
10 seconds is not her name
00:35:41
while the dealership did not explain why
00:35:42
the mistake happened
00:35:44
they did apologize and fired the
00:35:46
employee who posted the comment
00:35:48
hondo of north carol north carolina
00:35:50
north america excuse me
00:35:51
says they condemn the discriminatory
00:35:53
remarks and they are investigating
00:35:56
the incident joining me now is
00:35:58
journalist maurice galvin campo she's
00:35:59
the host of the podcast
00:36:01
ron tell us and mar i'm kind of obsessed
00:36:03
with stories like this one because i
00:36:04
think
00:36:05
it gives gives us space to talk about
00:36:08
the ways black people have to deal with
00:36:10
indignities
00:36:12
basically no matter what we're doing
00:36:13
like in every situation so
00:36:16
in this instance this is a car
00:36:18
dealership so how can this car
00:36:20
dealership essentially right the wrong
00:36:22
here
00:36:23
what do they do to rectify this
00:36:24
situation well you know they say that
00:36:27
they fired this employee and that this
00:36:29
was an isolated incident and if that's
00:36:30
the case if they did in fact fire the
00:36:32
person who was fully responsible
00:36:34
um then i think that's a great start but
00:36:35
one of the most important things i think
00:36:37
we're having this conversation is what
00:36:39
you just mentioned is how we have to
00:36:41
respond
00:36:42
to these indignities because what's
00:36:43
important in this story here
00:36:45
is to look at how trinity responded to
00:36:48
that insult let's be clear calling a
00:36:51
black woman whose name you don't know
00:36:53
bonfisha
00:36:54
is absolutely an attempt to demean and
00:36:58
diminish and fault her and you see her response
00:37:01
to that and the facebook post
00:37:03
was composed it was dignified
00:37:07
and that is what really deserves to be
00:37:09
highlighted here is that
00:37:10
even when something is upsetting you
00:37:13
can't behave like you're upset
00:37:15
even when something is maddening you
00:37:17
can't get too
00:37:18
mad and it shows you that in the face of
00:37:20
these indignities we are still required
00:37:22
to be composed whether it's security
00:37:23
following us around
00:37:25
whether it's somebody accusing us of
00:37:26
feeling something that we've already
00:37:27
paid for
00:37:28
because otherwise you go instantly from
00:37:31
being the victim to being the aggressor
00:37:35
oh that is so true i remember um it
00:37:38
wasn't the last u.s open it was like a
00:37:40
few us opens ago when serena williams
00:37:42
had that moment
00:37:43
with the umpire and the moment she said
00:37:45
you owe me an apology i was like it's a
00:37:47
wrap this whole situation is going to go
00:37:49
downhill
00:37:50
because a black woman asserting that she
00:37:52
deserves an apology
00:37:54
from a white man that just never goes
00:37:55
over well
00:37:57
and do you think that we we should talk
00:38:00
about that more we should talk about
00:38:02
the fact that women of color often have
00:38:04
to
00:38:05
stay calm in situations where it is
00:38:08
really difficult to stay calm but they
00:38:10
are actually being harmed and wronged
00:38:12
and yet we're not even allowed to get
00:38:13
mad
00:38:15
yeah 100 you know and i and i i think
00:38:17
every black woman probably has a story
00:38:19
like this you know i remember
00:38:21
my child being petted on the head like
00:38:23
he was an animal by a stranger on the
00:38:25
street who was just fluffing her hair
00:38:27
and the deep breaths and the prayers to
00:38:29
jesus i had to take
00:38:30
not lose my composure because
00:38:33
i didn't want the police called on me i
00:38:36
didn't want to be the aggressor even
00:38:38
though a stranger was petting my child
00:38:39
like a dog
00:38:40
you know there's this angry black woman
00:38:43
stereotype that we are
00:38:44
always fighting against but guess what
00:38:47
sometimes we got a lot to be mad about
00:38:50
but we are not
00:38:51
even allowed the space to express that
00:38:54
human emotion
00:38:55
because instantly it turns into
00:38:57
something much worse for
00:38:59
us and that's part of the emotional and
00:39:01
spiritual
00:39:02
burden of being a black woman we're not
00:39:04
even given the space
00:39:05
of having natural human emotional
00:39:07
reactions to things that are often
00:39:08
upsetting
00:39:12
it is so true that's why i work out so
00:39:13
hard honestly because
00:39:15
i just want to yell a lot but i actually
00:39:18
i i don't find that in this body yelling
00:39:21
um affects the change that i would like to
00:39:23
see in the world so i have to run
00:39:26
and and do a lot of uh exercise
00:39:29
um so so one of the other things that
00:39:31
i've been thinking a lot about
00:39:32
in lockdown is the fact that you know
00:39:35
i'm i'm kind of
00:39:36
lockdown's kind of my jam i'm i don't
00:39:39
know if you noticed but like i'm quite
00:39:41
productive in lockdown and the reason
00:39:43
why
00:39:44
i'm so productive is because i do not
00:39:46
have to deal with microaggressions i do
00:39:47
not have to deal with cat calling
00:39:49
i do not have to deal with even some
00:39:51
aggressive behaviors by people out in
00:39:53
the world when i'm just commuting to the
00:39:54
office um
00:39:56
what can we do to utilize our time in
00:39:58
lockdown
00:39:59
so that we can prepare ourselves to go
00:40:02
back out in the world because that's
00:40:03
actually what i'm the least looking
00:40:06
forward to is dealing with the person in the
00:40:09
hallway that tells me to smile
00:40:11
in the office you know it's funny
00:40:14
because a lot of people have used this time to
00:40:17
try to spiritually
00:40:18
recharge in the absence of the daily
00:40:21
assault
00:40:22
and the microaggression is the perfect
00:40:24
word for it it's
00:40:25
death by a thousand cuts they are teeny
00:40:28
tiny things that
00:40:29
in isolation really wouldn't mean
00:40:32
anything to anybody but when you're
00:40:33
facing multitudes of them day after day
00:40:36
and you were constantly having to
00:40:38
respond the appropriate way
00:40:40
go home and just swallow it try to run
00:40:42
it off try to sweat it out
00:40:44
it is mentally emotionally and
00:40:46
spiritually exhausting
00:40:48
and i have often wondered how much more
00:40:51
would i accomplish in life if i didn't
00:40:53
have to devote so much emotional energy to fighting
00:40:56
these kinds of things what what could i
00:40:58
do with that space if
00:40:59
it were free and i think a lot of people
00:41:02
right now are able to answer that
00:41:03
question
00:41:04
and so they're doing it by affirming
00:41:06
themselves affirming their beauty
00:41:08
there is nothing that i have found more
00:41:11
affirming than seeing black women like
00:41:12
you
00:41:13
where you're natural on television i'm
00:41:14
saying it all the time now 10 years ago
00:41:16
we never saw that
00:41:18
and just being able to see our beauty
00:41:20
reflected and to focus
00:41:22
on those things now is the time to do
00:41:24
that because we have to armor up because
00:41:26
we do have to go back to that world
00:41:30
it's so so true that i in in lockdown
00:41:33
you sort of have
00:41:34
that extra space and i was like what
00:41:36
could i do with that space i could get a
00:41:38
whole other job like i could have a whole
00:41:41
other job i had the energy for a whole
00:41:42
second job because i don't have to deal
00:41:45
with that other stuff
00:41:46
um or just just to keep it one hundred
00:41:51
percent real so
00:41:52
we could live longer all right because
00:41:53
these are the things that are killing us
00:41:55
these are the things that are leading to
00:41:57
hypertension and heart disease and
00:41:59
diabetes
00:42:00
the the things that black women and
00:42:02
black men over index on health-wise
00:42:04
so many of them are stress-driven so
00:42:07
these things are literally
00:42:08
shortening our lives and killing us
00:42:10
that's how bad it is
00:42:14
that is such an important point because
00:42:16
my mom
00:42:17
she has this line where she always says
00:42:19
don't don't let them kill you zerlina
00:42:21
and i i think that she means just like the
00:42:23
world the cruelty of the world the
00:42:25
racism of the world the sexism misogyny
00:42:27
like i have to somehow survive it um and
00:42:31
unfortunately you are right
00:42:32
black women have higher incidence of
00:42:34
stroke hypertension high blood pressure
00:42:36
diabetes heart disease
00:42:38
do you think that we we make enough of a
00:42:40
connection between
00:42:42
these indignities like the black women
00:42:44
in victoria's secret in new jersey
00:42:45
you know i feel like experiencing that
00:42:47
is going to make your blood pressure
00:42:49
a little bit higher yeah and even in
00:42:52
that case i mean that's another example
00:42:54
look at the way that the woman who was
00:42:55
reporting the black woman reporting
00:42:57
dealt with this
00:42:58
she is being chased around a store by a
00:43:01
woman who is
00:43:02
clearly emotionally unbalanced and she
00:43:05
laughs but we all know that that wasn't
00:43:07
funny and she didn't find it funny she's
00:43:09
probably tremendously
00:43:10
disturbed and upset by that she probably
00:43:12
went home that night and was
00:43:14
terribly upset by that but in the moment
00:43:16
she had to laugh
00:43:17
it off and there is a thought to that
00:43:19
there's a pause to always pushing
00:43:21
everything down but i think the
00:43:22
counterbalance
00:43:24
is black joy you know there's a saying
00:43:25
that joy is an act of resistance
00:43:28
and i feel that's no more true than in
00:43:30
the black community it is in our comedy
00:43:32
it is in our music it is in our food
00:43:35
it is our commitment and our love to our
00:43:37
family i personally have been leaning
00:43:39
so heavily into those things because i
00:43:42
have come to realize
00:43:43
that joy is not optional it is a
00:43:44
necessity especially in this america
00:43:49
absolutely so do you do you think we as
00:43:52
black people really need to get proof of
00:43:55
these kinds of microaggressions
00:43:57
to prove that they really happen i feel
00:43:58
like you know
00:44:00
in a similar way to police interactions
00:44:02
with black people
00:44:04
uh you know the evidence is in the
00:44:05
videos that we see circulating around
00:44:07
social media but black people know these
00:44:09
things have happened
00:44:10
all throughout history now we just have
00:44:12
that evidence
00:44:13
do you think it's good to have the
00:44:14
evidence do you think it's
00:44:16
helpful to have the evidence does it
00:44:17
make it seem like it's happening more
00:44:19
or mislead people to think that it's
00:44:21
happening more frequently when
00:44:23
this has always been the case
00:44:26
you know i like to say that i think the
00:44:28
cell phone is one of the most important
00:44:29
tools for advancing
00:44:30
civil rights this country has ever seen
00:44:32
because it's not that these things are
00:44:34
happening more often
00:44:35
it's that we are finally able to
00:44:37
document them and for so long
00:44:39
people in the black community certainly
00:44:41
knew that these things were taking place
00:44:43
but when you would try to explain it to
00:44:44
others
00:44:45
they would shrug it off they would try
00:44:46
to reason it away well how do you know
00:44:48
it was because you were black
00:44:49
well maybe you're being a little
00:44:50
paranoid um there wasn't the validation
00:44:53
and the validation comes from the truth
00:44:56
and the evidence
00:44:57
so when it comes to something that's
00:44:59
criminal it actually can help
00:45:02
getting justice on a criminal level
00:45:04
because you have evidence when it comes
00:45:05
to being expulpatory
00:45:07
if you've been accused of something that
00:45:08
you didn't do and there's dash cam video
00:45:11
or if there's police body cam video and
00:45:13
it can be very useful
00:45:14
in that way and when it comes to things
00:45:17
like we're saying with the shoppers the
00:45:18
the woman of victoria's secret um it
00:45:22
just validates our experience and
00:45:24
sometimes that can lead to a measure of
00:45:26
justice which is comforting you know amy
00:45:28
cooper the central park aaron
00:45:29
um did face charges for that and you
00:45:32
know a couple decades ago that encounter
00:45:35
might have led with christian cooper
00:45:36
hanging from a tree
00:45:37
i'm not being hyperbolic this is our
00:45:40
history in this country
00:45:41
you know as charles blue likes to say i
00:45:43
scream you die
00:45:44
white tears are very dangerous for black
00:45:47
people now we have some protection
00:45:51
it's such this important point in the
00:45:53
historical context is so critical
00:45:55
to always keep in mind mara campo thank
00:45:58
you so much for being here
00:45:59
as always and please stay safe come and
00:46:02
go
00:46:03
thank you coming up i'll talk to u.s
00:46:06
gold medalist dominique dawes
00:46:07
we'll be right back
00:46:30
[Music]
00:46:41
[Music]
00:46:51
[Music]
00:47:05
[Music]
00:47:17
we are just about 12 hours
00:47:20
from a major olympic moment in
00:47:23
gymnastics especially
00:47:24
for the usa team and the goat simone
00:47:27
biles will get her first chance
00:47:29
at a medal when she competes in the
00:47:31
women's gymnastics team final
00:47:33
but during yesterday's qualifiers she
00:47:36
wasn't the only one making headlines
00:47:38
this is what the german women's
00:47:39
gymnastics team wore in their qualifiers
00:47:42
instead of the traditional leotard they
00:47:45
wore ankle
00:47:46
length unitards i love this the team
00:47:49
said they wore
00:47:50
the unitards for comfort but also to
00:47:52
send a message to the federation
00:47:54
against the sexualization in gymnastics
00:47:58
the ladies from germany aren't the only
00:48:00
ones taking a stand against misogyny and
00:48:02
the sexualization of female athletes
00:48:04
last week the norway women's beach
00:48:06
handball team wore
00:48:07
shorts instead of their traditional
00:48:09
bikini bottoms during the euro 2021
00:48:11
tournament
00:48:12
because they wore quote improper
00:48:14
clothing they were fined
00:48:16
1500 euros by the european handball
00:48:18
federation
00:48:19
but pop star pink she came to the rescue
00:48:22
offering to help them out with that one
00:48:24
she says she'll pay the team's fines and
00:48:26
she went on to say the european handball
00:48:28
federation
00:48:29
should be fine for sexism but whether
00:48:31
it's sexism or
00:48:32
physical verbal or emotional abuse elite
00:48:35
athletes have had to endure
00:48:37
a whole heck of a lot and my next guest
00:48:39
says for her
00:48:41
the reward it was not worth all of that
00:48:44
sacrifice
00:48:45
and i am thrilled to say that joining me
00:48:48
now is olympic gold medalist dominic
00:48:50
dawes she is the first african-american to win
00:48:53
an olympic gold medal
00:48:54
in gymnastics and you're one of my real
00:48:57
life
00:48:58
heroes i did gymnastics until i was 15
00:49:01
years old and
00:49:02
there weren't a lot of black girls in
00:49:04
gymnastics growing up
00:49:06
so thank you so much for being here well
00:49:08
thank you for having me on and that
00:49:10
definitely
00:49:11
has changed quite a bit as you mentioned
00:49:13
earlier simone viles dominating in the
00:49:15
sport of gymnastics jordan childs
00:49:17
being a part of this olympic team and
00:49:18
then prior to these young girls
00:49:20
we had the likes of gabby douglas making
00:49:22
history so i feel very honored and very
00:49:24
blessed
00:49:27
it's so great to see that evolution and
00:49:30
dominique before we talk about your
00:49:31
experience in the sport of gymnastics
00:49:34
let's talk
00:49:35
about uh this usa team so
00:49:38
what are you most looking forward to in
00:49:41
the team final competition
00:49:43
well i'm so excited for these young
00:49:44
girls to be smiling and
00:49:46
they're truly teammates it's really hard
00:49:48
for these olympians though there's no
00:49:49
one in the stands and i couldn't imagine
00:49:51
for any of my three olympic games that i
00:49:53
went to in 92 96 or 2000
00:49:56
to perform it just in front of the
00:49:59
judges or just
00:50:00
in front of the coaches your many family
00:50:02
members and friends aren't even there in
00:50:04
the stands and so
00:50:05
i do feel for these athletes however
00:50:06
they are accomplishing their dream they
00:50:08
sacrifice
00:50:09
very much of their childhood for this
00:50:11
one opportunity and i hope they're very
00:50:13
pleased with their performance
00:50:14
and knowing that this is going to be the
00:50:16
most watched olympic games ever
00:50:17
and that the fans are behind them 110
00:50:23
you've talked about a lot about the
00:50:24
sacrifices that gymnasts have to make to
00:50:26
get to this level
00:50:28
and you know some of those sacrifices i
00:50:30
think people at home would would assume
00:50:32
you know you practice a lot uh you know
00:50:34
you're watching what you eat you're
00:50:35
making sure you're healthy
00:50:37
um but there are other sacrifices and
00:50:39
you've talked about this
00:50:40
recently because of a lot of the trouble
00:50:43
in usa gymnastics can you talk about the
00:50:46
psychological impact
00:50:47
on these athletes the pressure that
00:50:50
comes along with performing in the
00:50:51
olympic games even simone biles
00:50:53
admitted this week that the pressure is
00:50:56
a lot in this moment
00:50:58
it is too much definitely for teenagers
00:51:00
it's definitely too much for a young 21
00:51:02
24 year old even she though is handling
00:51:05
the pressure extremely well and what i
00:51:07
admire most
00:51:08
about simone biles is not only her
00:51:09
athleticism and her amazing talent on
00:51:11
the floor and
00:51:12
dominating and being generations above
00:51:14
the rest of her competition but i love
00:51:16
the fact that she's speaking out and
00:51:17
sharing her truth
00:51:18
in hopes of changing the culture of the
00:51:20
sport of gymnastics that
00:51:21
is that is full of a great deal of
00:51:23
verbal physical psychological and even
00:51:25
sexual abuse
00:51:26
many people are aware of the scandal of
00:51:28
larry nassar the olympic team doctor he
00:51:31
worked with me as well as a number of my
00:51:32
teammates for 10 years of my childhood
00:51:35
and while i was not sexually abused by
00:51:37
him just the
00:51:38
the level of trauma that all of us went
00:51:40
through thinking that this man was a
00:51:42
friend of ours and recognizing he is
00:51:44
truly he truly was a wolf in chief's clothing
00:51:46
and so i love the likes of
00:51:48
simone biles speaking out about changing
00:51:50
the culture of gymnastics and i'm doing
00:51:51
it in my own little way by starting the
00:51:53
dominique dawes
00:51:54
gymnastics and ninja academy here in the
00:51:56
state of maryland and hoping to open up
00:51:58
more in the dmv area it's all about
00:52:00
creating an empowering and healthy
00:52:02
gym environment for all these young
00:52:04
girls and young boys
00:52:07
i've heard you say that recently about
00:52:10
the fact that
00:52:11
the larry nassar sexual abuse scandal
00:52:13
could happen in usa gymnastics because
00:52:16
of the culture
00:52:17
can you elaborate on what you mean in
00:52:19
terms of the culture of usa gymnastics
00:52:21
that can allow for this kind of abuse to
00:52:24
happen for so long i think people which shocks
00:52:26
people the most
00:52:28
is that the the decades that this was
00:52:30
going on
00:52:32
you know it's not just usa gymnastics
00:52:34
it's all the gyms
00:52:35
it's all the gyms in the united states
00:52:37
of america gym owners
00:52:39
head coaches they need to open their
00:52:41
eyes and they need to be aware
00:52:42
of the impact that they're making on
00:52:45
these young athletes
00:52:46
now the majority of the gyms out there
00:52:47
that are not having that don't have an
00:52:49
elite training program to it they're
00:52:50
probably
00:52:51
doing things in a very healthy manner
00:52:53
they're not demeaning the kids it's not
00:52:54
full of fear intimidation and silence
00:52:56
however those programs out there that do
00:52:59
have elite level training athlete
00:53:01
athletes athletes that are training for
00:53:03
an olympic games or maybe to get a
00:53:04
college scholarship
00:53:05
they need to be aware of the way that
00:53:07
they speak to young girls the way that
00:53:09
they treat young girls
00:53:10
and even the way in which they punish
00:53:12
young girls if they're not doing things
00:53:13
right
00:53:14
you shouldn't be left in the gym until
00:53:16
late hours you should not be kicked out
00:53:18
of gym and you're crying and then your
00:53:19
parents bring
00:53:20
you back the next day my hope is that
00:53:23
for those that watched my docu-series it
00:53:25
was called
00:53:26
golden the journey of usa's elite
00:53:28
gymnasts on the road to the 2020 olympic
00:53:30
games in tokyo i was the executive
00:53:32
producer of this docu-series
00:53:34
along with lebron james maverick carter
00:53:37
among a number of amazing other team
00:53:38
members and
00:53:39
the reason why i wanted to be a part of
00:53:41
this docu series is
00:53:43
the fact that usa gymnastics and peacock
00:53:45
were willing to allow us to be
00:53:47
transparent and to show the fans and the
00:53:49
families
00:53:50
of the full journey of what these young
00:53:53
athletes have to endure
00:53:55
on the road to possibly possibly
00:53:58
making an olympic team there's no
00:53:59
guarantee you don't have full control
00:54:01
over your careers it's a very subjective
00:54:03
sport
00:54:04
a very political sport and usa
00:54:06
gymnastics does have
00:54:07
the final say in who's on this olympic
00:54:09
team and so if people would watch this
00:54:12
this docu-series called golden streaming
00:54:14
on peacock
00:54:15
they would get a true understanding of
00:54:17
what that journey looks like and the
00:54:19
psychological toll that it does take on
00:54:21
a number of these athletes
00:54:24
i highly recommend the docu-series it's
00:54:27
right here on peacock and you can watch
00:54:29
it six episodes
00:54:30
and it's truly gripping because you see
00:54:33
really what goes into
00:54:34
becoming an elite gymnast and you
00:54:36
essentially sacrifice everything and so
00:54:38
does your family
00:54:39
um i want to sort of leave on a positive
00:54:41
note though you you started you
00:54:43
mentioned the dominic dodge gymnastics
00:54:44
and ninja academy and you've been trying
00:54:46
to
00:54:47
change the culture inside of your own
00:54:49
gym what are some of the things that
00:54:51
you're
00:54:52
doing um in your own gym to to nurture
00:54:55
a positive and healthy training
00:54:57
environment but also
00:54:58
you know keeping keeping in mind the
00:55:00
conversation we've been having because
00:55:01
of naomi osaka and others about mental
00:55:04
health because gymnastics is one of
00:55:07
those sports where it's physical but
00:55:08
it's a lot about the mental
00:55:10
well the sport of gymnastics it's very
00:55:12
much about the people in the sport i
00:55:14
remember when i retired in 2000 after
00:55:16
the sydney olympic games
00:55:17
i distanced myself from the sport of
00:55:19
gymnastics because i thought it was
00:55:20
a very detrimental very abusive culture
00:55:23
and i didn't want to be a part of it for
00:55:24
very much longer
00:55:25
then and i realized it's not the sport
00:55:27
the sport is a beautiful sport i have
00:55:29
such a passion for the sport
00:55:30
it's the people in the sport that need
00:55:32
to change so the first thing that myself
00:55:34
and my husband
00:55:35
have done is hire the right people we
00:55:37
hire people that truly love working with
00:55:39
kids we hire coaches
00:55:40
that look at every young kid that walks
00:55:42
through our doors and they recognize how
00:55:44
gifted and special they
00:55:45
are and every single kid in our gym
00:55:48
matters we care about inspiring each and
00:55:50
every kid it doesn't matter
00:55:51
your color your size your aspirations
00:55:53
your ability whatever it is
00:55:55
every kid matters and it shows at my
00:55:58
facility we're all about being
00:56:00
compassionate empowering and uplifting
00:56:02
kids and the whole focus is on
00:56:04
developing the whole child physically
00:56:07
psychologically
00:56:08
mentally spiritually as well as socially
00:56:10
and i think the people that have been a
00:56:12
part of our program
00:56:13
the community that's been a part of our
00:56:14
program for the last year they recognize
00:56:17
the impact that we're trying to make
00:56:21
i love all of that so if it was dominic
00:56:24
dobbs versus simone biles who do you
00:56:26
think would win
00:56:27
oh yeah i don't know why people ask me
00:56:28
this it doesn't make sense she would
00:56:31
i think she would smoke me she's so
00:56:32
talented i mean i i say all the time i'm
00:56:35
so thankful that i'm retired i'm even a
00:56:37
little nervous that my kids want to do
00:56:39
the sport of gymnastics because she set
00:56:40
the bar
00:56:42
so high but she's worked hard you can
00:56:44
come out of the womb with a certain
00:56:45
level of
00:56:46
athleticism or ability and grit but you
00:56:48
have to make that commitment that
00:56:50
sacrifice
00:56:51
and you have to have a little luck on
00:56:52
your side as well and she's amazing
00:56:54
she's a great young girl i remember when
00:56:56
i first met her
00:56:57
i introduced in my two oldest daughters
00:56:59
now i have four children now
00:57:01
and she was so gracious and so kind and
00:57:04
so wonderful with her time
00:57:05
and i just i marvel at her ability on
00:57:08
the floor but as i mentioned earlier i'm
00:57:10
more impressed with the impact that this
00:57:12
young girl is going to make
00:57:13
off the floor in changing the culture of
00:57:15
the sport of gymnastics she said in her
00:57:17
latest interview
00:57:18
it's not just about gymnastics anymore
00:57:20
it's about changing this culture and
00:57:22
making it healthy for the next
00:57:24
generation
00:57:26
amen to that dominique does thank you so
00:57:28
much it really was an
00:57:29
honor talking to you and fun fact my
00:57:32
first floor music when i was 11 years
00:57:34
old was your floor music
00:57:36
that you used in 1992 so full circle
00:57:39
full circle moment for me
00:57:41
um and so i just wanted to mention that
00:57:43
thank you so much
00:57:44
for everything that you do that does it
00:57:47
for me tonight well thank you
00:57:49
be sure to follow us thank you be sure
00:57:52
to follow us on all of the socials
00:57:54
facebook twitter tick tock and youtube
00:57:56
the metti haasen show is coming up
00:57:57
after this short break right here on
00:58:02
[Music]
00:58:06
pika
00:58:20
so
00:58:27
[Music]
00:58:49
[Music]
00:59:00
[Music]
00:59:10
[Music]
00:59:23
[Music]
00:59:43
[Music]
00:59:50
[Music]
01:00:03
as the covert 19 pandemic surges back
01:00:06
with daily cases more than doubling in a
01:00:08
matter of weeks
01:00:09
we'll take a look at how republicans
01:00:10
have changed their tune on vaccines
01:00:13
with their voters now disproportionately
01:00:15
dying
01:00:16
plus we're just hours away from the
01:00:18
first congressional hearing on the
01:00:19
january 6th insurrection
01:00:21
i'll talk to congressman jamal bowman
01:00:23
about what he expects from it
01:00:25
having lived through the deadly riot
01:00:26
himself
01:00:28
and which democratic senator thinks
01:00:30
they're more maverick than the late john
01:00:32
mccain is that a good thing why kisston cinema
01:00:35
has far-right commentators praising her
01:00:37
position on the filibuster
01:00:40
ahead
01:00:44
[Music]
01:00:50
good evening i'm betty hassan even as
01:00:52
donald trump put his vice president mike
01:00:55
pence in charge of the white house
01:00:56
coronavirus task force
01:00:58
behind the scenes he let his son-in-law
01:01:00
slash senior advisor jared kushner
01:01:03
run his own ad hoc shadow task force did
01:01:06
kushner have any relevant experience
01:01:08
please are you new here at the time in
01:01:11
the spring of 2020 the coronavirus was
01:01:14
ravaging the deep blue capital d
01:01:16
democratic northeast and according to
01:01:18
reports kushner's task force was a hot
01:01:20
mess of not just hubris and
01:01:22
mismanagement
01:01:23
but also of malign neglect to quote
01:01:26
vanity fair most troubling of all
01:01:27
perhaps was a sentiment the expert said
01:01:30
a member of kushner's team expressed
01:01:32
that because the virus had hit blue
01:01:34
state's hardest a national plan was
01:01:36
unnecessary and would not make sense
01:01:38
politically
01:01:39
the political folks believed that
01:01:40
because it was going to be relegated to
01:01:41
democratic states
01:01:42
that they could blame those governors
01:01:44
and that would be an effective political
01:01:46
strategy said the expert
01:01:48
that's right in the spring of 2020 the
01:01:50
trump white house was reportedly okay
01:01:52
would letting americans die so long as
01:01:54
those americans were democrats
01:01:56
they thought it could only help the then
01:01:57
president's re-election chances
01:01:59
if his opponents were dying off from a
01:02:01
brutal plague
01:02:02
that you could pin on your opponents and
01:02:04
the party but as we
01:02:06
know plagues don't work that way so the
01:02:08
coronavirus didn't care when republican
01:02:10
governor ron desantis said florida
01:02:12
had tamed covert 19 when desantis told
01:02:15
new yorkers and new yorkers only that
01:02:17
they had to quarantine in the sunshine
01:02:19
state
01:02:20
his actions didn't save florida from a
01:02:22
surge then
01:02:23
and more than a year later his policies
01:02:25
haven't saved florida from leading the
01:02:27
country in new infections now
01:02:29
the sunshine state is responsible for
01:02:31
one out of every five
01:02:32
new covert cases as southern states red
01:02:36
republican states that have the largest
01:02:38
vaccine gaps
01:02:39
now find that they are the most
01:02:40
vulnerable to the delta variant
01:02:43
these vaccines are saving lives
01:02:47
how about the vaccine i came up with the
01:02:49
vaccine i won't folks get vaccinated
01:02:51
that's the cure
01:02:53
that prevents everything if you're
01:02:54
vaccinated those
01:02:56
waves are not going to impact you in any
01:02:58
significant way
01:03:00
and i think that's the important message
01:03:01
for people folks supposed to have common
01:03:03
sense
01:03:06
but it's time to start blaming the
01:03:08
unvaccinated folks not the regular folks
01:03:11
it's the unvaccinated folks that are
01:03:12
letting us name them i recommend you
01:03:14
take it but i also believe
01:03:16
in your freedoms 100 but just so you
01:03:18
understand
01:03:19
[Applause]
01:03:21
are these top republicans finally waking
01:03:24
up to what the rest of us recognized
01:03:26
long ago and what the cdc and the white
01:03:27
house both pointed out earlier this
01:03:29
month
01:03:31
there is a clear message that is coming
01:03:33
through
01:03:34
this is becoming a pandemic of the
01:03:37
unvaccinated
01:03:38
look the only pandemic we have is among
01:03:40
the unvaccinated
01:03:42
and here's what you don't often hear
01:03:44
because it's not that nice or polite to
01:03:47
say but it's true and i'll be blunt a
01:03:49
pandemic of the unvaccinated
01:03:51
is a pandemic disproportionately of
01:03:53
republicans
01:03:55
not because joe biden wishes it was so
01:03:57
he's actually been pushing
01:03:58
to get more than 70 percent of the
01:04:00
population vaccinated
01:04:02
the minimum threshold for herd immunity
01:04:04
and it's not because the coronavirus
01:04:06
itself gives a damn what a person's
01:04:08
politics are
01:04:09
it's simply because republicans are
01:04:11
largely those in the u.s
01:04:12
who are choosing to remain unprotected
01:04:14
against the coronavirus
01:04:16
only 49 of republicans have received at
01:04:18
least one shot
01:04:20
compared to more than 80 percent of
01:04:21
democrats and there's a clear
01:04:23
biden trump divide in november biden won
01:04:26
all 20 states with the highest vaccination
01:04:28
rates trump carried 17
01:04:31
of the lowest 20. as the former
01:04:33
republican governor of new jersey
01:04:34
christine todd woodman put
01:04:36
on this show on msnbc last night it's as
01:04:39
if trump voters are refusing the life
01:04:41
rafts
01:04:42
as the titanic is sinking it comes after
01:04:45
months of mixed messaging from the
01:04:46
former president
01:04:47
in particular trump is the guy who both
01:04:49
wants credit for the vaccine
01:04:51
but he also ripped off his mask after
01:04:53
coming home from the hospital with kobit
01:04:55
he asked americans to picture his face
01:04:57
as they sit for inoculations
01:04:58
but he got his own jab in secret he
01:05:00
wants the shot to be called the trump
01:05:02
vaccine
01:05:03
yet he didn't join his fellow
01:05:04
ex-presidents in recording an ad
01:05:06
advocating for vaccinations from the
01:05:08
president who told the proud boys to
01:05:10
stand back and stand by
01:05:12
these cues were noticed they were heeded
01:05:15
and pivoting at this late date
01:05:16
isn't likely to shift opinions i mean
01:05:19
some of these people believe that top
01:05:21
democrats are actually running a child
01:05:23
sex trafficking ring
01:05:24
from the basement of a pizzeria we have
01:05:27
gone full circle
01:05:28
from the trump white house's
01:05:29
indifference to mass death
01:05:31
in blue states two republican leaders
01:05:34
finally belatedly waking up to escalating deaths
01:05:37
in largely unvaccinated red
01:05:39
states this is a national tragedy
01:05:43
it's national seeing americans
01:05:45
disproportionately republican americans
01:05:47
filling up hospitals
01:05:48
because they are refusing vaccinations
01:05:50
against a strain of the virus
01:05:52
that is 1200 times more infectious than
01:05:54
the original version
01:05:56
of covert 19 that is a tragedy
01:05:59
seeing these people refusing
01:06:00
vaccinations as part of some
01:06:03
ridiculous culture war being willing to
01:06:06
die
01:06:07
to own the libs madness
01:06:10
here to talk about all of this is dr
01:06:12
kavita patel former obama white house
01:06:14
health policy director
01:06:15
and an msnbc medical contributor also
01:06:18
charlie sykes
01:06:19
founder and editor at large of the
01:06:20
bulwark uh thank you both for joining me
01:06:22
on the show tonight charlie why is your
01:06:24
former party
01:06:26
trying to kill off its base trying to
01:06:28
kill off its electorate it makes no
01:06:30
sense to me
01:06:32
no it seems like a bad business model to
01:06:33
uh kill your own constituency i mean you
01:06:36
have to be though however uh deeply
01:06:37
deeply cynical to think that
01:06:39
their uh their response to this is um
01:06:43
because it is now showing up in
01:06:44
republican states when they had been
01:06:46
betting that it would simply hit democratic
01:06:48
states but i have to say that
01:06:50
i'm here for that i am deeply deeply
01:06:52
cynical because what else is the
01:06:54
excuse they have spent months playing
01:06:57
the culture war card
01:06:59
mocking the virus ron desantis christie
01:07:02
gnome
01:07:03
greg abbott have been demagoguing this
01:07:06
well fox news has been pushing out
01:07:08
disinformation i mean it's great that
01:07:11
they've now finally pivoted but you know what is
01:07:14
uh the uh explanation for suddenly
01:07:17
realizing hey wait maybe we shouldn't
01:07:19
play games with this uh is it because
01:07:22
number one they think that this might be
01:07:23
a political disaster for them that it
01:07:25
might kill
01:07:26
their own people which of course puts
01:07:29
their indifference over the last year in
01:07:30
a very different light doesn't it
01:07:34
it does indeed and kavita when we look
01:07:36
at the democratic side we look at who's
01:07:38
in the white house joe biden
01:07:40
look it's a federal government states
01:07:43
have a lot of power the president can't
01:07:44
do everything but isn't there a lot more
01:07:46
joe biden could be doing
01:07:48
if it wasn't perhaps for fear of how
01:07:50
will republicans react will it fuel
01:07:52
culture wars
01:07:53
he already signed an order requiring
01:07:54
masks on planes couldn't you require
01:07:56
every passenger and worker on a plane or
01:07:58
a train or inside a federal building to
01:08:00
be vaccinated
01:08:02
yeah absolutely maddie there's a lot of
01:08:04
luck when we have 50
01:08:06
000 new cases a day there is no debate
01:08:08
that there's more
01:08:09
that the biden administration and every
01:08:11
administration should be doing and
01:08:13
you're right it's everything from vaccine mandates to
01:08:16
many standing up testing
01:08:18
again just because that's what we need
01:08:19
to do and also i'll be honest supporting
01:08:22
vocally supporting these county cities
01:08:24
and states that are sticking their necks
01:08:25
out
01:08:26
and actually putting back mass mandates
01:08:27
do you think they want to do that you
01:08:29
think that you think that southern california wants
01:08:31
to do that nobody wants to do that
01:08:33
they are sticking their necks out 15
01:08:35
states have had governors that have now
01:08:37
outlawed public health officials from
01:08:39
doing the very thing that could
01:08:41
absolutely protect their people so the
01:08:43
bite administration
01:08:44
could be doing more should be doing more
01:08:46
and i hate to say that maddie this kind
01:08:48
of in-between
01:08:49
indifference not wanting to upset the
01:08:51
base not wanting to look too contrarian
01:08:54
it's actually killing people and i i
01:08:55
worry that we're just going to sit
01:08:57
around while it's happening globally as
01:08:59
well
01:09:02
globally indeed and nationally in this
01:09:05
weird partisan way
01:09:06
charlie you mentioned a moment ago that
01:09:08
you know you'd have to be cynical to
01:09:10
look into that explanation and you're
01:09:12
cynical on this issue i want to play you
01:09:13
something
01:09:14
perhaps the most cynical man in american
01:09:16
politics senator mitch mcconnell said
01:09:18
today earlier
01:09:19
on the senate floor it's ridiculous but
01:09:21
i'll get your reaction on the other side
01:09:23
have a listen
01:09:25
after the biden administration was very
01:09:27
eager to claim ownership
01:09:29
and spike the football on the
01:09:30
vaccination trajectory which they
01:09:32
largely inherited from
01:09:34
republican leadership we've now seen
01:09:37
vaccination rates in many
01:09:38
places plateau on what this white house
01:09:42
has been insisting
01:09:43
is their watch
01:09:48
the arsonists turn up to the burn down
01:09:51
building and tell the firefighters hey
01:09:54
what are you doing wrong
01:10:00
politicians conservatives should you
01:10:02
know could have spent the last six
01:10:03
months nine months
01:10:04
uh explaining why this was necessary why
01:10:07
this was
01:10:08
uh one's patriotic duty uh that we
01:10:10
needed to balance
01:10:12
personal freedom against uh civic
01:10:14
responsibility that we did have an
01:10:16
obligation to care about our neighbors
01:10:18
to not kill our parents and grandparents
01:10:20
with all of this
01:10:21
um that this required a national effort
01:10:24
like the response to 9 11 instead what did they
01:10:27
do
01:10:28
um five minutes ago they were um you
01:10:30
know on the air
01:10:31
uh with their hair on fire saying that
01:10:33
joe biden was going to be sending
01:10:34
jack-booted thugs door-to-door
01:10:36
to force them to do the uh the uh
01:10:39
uh to do the vaccinations uh rhonda
01:10:41
sanderson florida
01:10:42
was you know talking about you know
01:10:44
mocking um
01:10:45
you know fauci that you know we're not
01:10:47
going to fouchy our state things like
01:10:49
that now suddenly they're pretending to be
01:10:51
sober i mean it is the
01:10:53
it is the epitome of cynicism and it is
01:10:56
a
01:10:57
world-class um in a world-class display
01:11:00
of
01:11:01
political hackery unfortunately with
01:11:03
deadly consequences
01:11:06
very deadly consequences but let's just
01:11:08
put this in context kavita you and i
01:11:10
have been talking about this
01:11:12
disease this pandemic the death toll for
01:11:15
almost a year now
01:11:17
put this in context because on the one
01:11:19
hand we're seeing
01:11:20
rising case numbers we're seeing rising
01:11:22
hospitalizations
01:11:23
the delta variant is more contagious
01:11:26
than its predecessors on the other hand
01:11:28
some might argue it's coming up from a
01:11:29
low base and outside of you know
01:11:31
the fact that texas missouri florida
01:11:33
make up 40 percent of the cases in this
01:11:35
country as of the weekend
01:11:36
suggests other states still aren't doing
01:11:37
that badly um
01:11:39
put it in context how bad is this
01:11:41
situation right now
01:11:42
how worried are you compared to all the
01:11:44
previous times i've asked you that
01:11:46
question on this show
01:11:48
yeah so look maddie i i'm i'm always
01:11:50
worried i think that's my nature that's
01:11:51
why i'm the doctor
01:11:53
but i would say i'm still incredibly
01:11:55
worried you're right the majority of
01:11:57
kind of new cases are being driven
01:11:58
but let's be honest many by majority of
01:12:00
the most populous states so
01:12:02
if you just look at that you could just
01:12:04
snub your nose and say it's not my
01:12:05
problem not true
01:12:06
every single state of scene increases
01:12:08
and if you want to look to a place where
01:12:09
it's disturbing look to massachusetts in
01:12:11
new york staten island
01:12:12
where there's largely unvaccinated
01:12:14
pockets incredible increasing numbers
01:12:16
we're now seeing that in other boroughs
01:12:19
massachusetts boston
01:12:20
same trend highly vaccinated city and
01:12:22
state
01:12:23
but we're still seeing these pockets
01:12:25
amongst obviously the unvaccinated but
01:12:27
many i think the story on breakthrough
01:12:28
infections is going to be a growing one
01:12:30
it's going to be one that will again
01:12:33
catch us quote unquote by surprise even
01:12:34
though many of us are seeing
01:12:36
it on the front lines so what worries me
01:12:38
is that we're just going to be in this
01:12:39
game of whack-a-mole maddie we have the
01:12:41
vaccine
01:12:42
we could literally create a fortress for
01:12:44
our entire country in essence
01:12:46
so that we have not zero cases but very
01:12:49
low incidence the way we were talking
01:12:51
two months ago
01:12:52
decreases in cases uk is starting to see
01:12:54
those decreases but after pretty strict
01:12:56
measures put aside boris johnson and
01:12:58
kind of this idiotic freedom day
01:13:00
you've we're seeing local officials
01:13:02
doing more measured things
01:13:03
we could follow the uk or we could
01:13:06
easily just get into this game of
01:13:07
whack-a-mole where we're not learning
01:13:09
our lesson
01:13:10
and we still have a majority of a
01:13:11
populist that is unvaccinated
01:13:13
and a threat of blooming variants from
01:13:15
everywhere
01:13:16
including the united states do not be
01:13:18
deceived we can make our own variants we
01:13:20
don't have to look to other countries
01:13:22
largely because of how many people are
01:13:23
not vaccinated
01:13:27
yeah making our own variants is a scary
01:13:30
thought and that does seem to be where
01:13:31
we're going right now it's
01:13:32
why i would warn a lot of liberals not
01:13:34
to say haha it's all republicans getting
01:13:36
it because
01:13:37
it's going to hit us all we'll have to
01:13:38
leave it there uh charlie sykes uh
01:13:40
kavita patel thank you both
01:13:42
for your insights your analysis
01:13:43
appreciate you coming on the show
01:13:45
tonight thank you
01:13:47
you might think you might think well if
01:13:51
republicans in republican areas
01:13:53
aren't getting vaccinated and are
01:13:54
getting coveted that's their problem not
01:13:56
mine
01:13:57
which is not just kind of mean but it's
01:13:59
also dangerous
01:14:00
because the more people that get
01:14:01
infected the higher the chances of new
01:14:03
and deadly variants developing
01:14:05
and that affects all of us plus even if
01:14:07
you're vaccinated the more you are
01:14:09
around other unvaccinated people the higher
01:14:11
your chance of becoming a breakthrough
01:14:13
case of still getting covered yourself
01:14:15
as dr patel just mentioned so what do we
01:14:17
do about this
01:14:18
vaccine refusal or hesitancy especially
01:14:21
as
01:14:22
politics is only part of the problem
01:14:24
former cdc director dr richard besser
01:14:25
told the new york times
01:14:26
that in strong democratic areas like
01:14:28
princeton and trenton new jersey
01:14:30
socio-economic factors come into play
01:14:32
too in the mostly white princeton 75
01:14:35
of adults are immunized versus the 45
01:14:37
percent in trenton which is mostly black
01:14:39
and latino
01:14:40
this is happening across the country
01:14:42
despite the fda authorizing
01:14:44
or authorizing excuse me all three
01:14:46
vaccines for emergency use
01:14:47
thoroughly testing them and finding them
01:14:49
to be effective
01:14:50
so is there a case for mandatory
01:14:53
vaccinations
01:14:54
that's what ryan cooper among others
01:14:56
argues in the week he points out
01:14:57
that both france and israel have imposed
01:14:59
vaccination requirements for their
01:15:01
populations
01:15:02
to be able to enter public buildings new
01:15:04
york city will now require vaccines or
01:15:06
weekly tests for hundreds of thousands
01:15:08
of its city workers california will
01:15:10
require its state workers
01:15:11
to do the same and the department of
01:15:13
veterans affairs a massive healthcare
01:15:15
bureaucracy
01:15:16
will require a hundred and fifteen
01:15:18
thousand of its frontline healthcare
01:15:19
workers
01:15:20
to be vaccinated against the coronavirus
01:15:22
in the next two months
01:15:23
the nfl announced stiff penalties for
01:15:26
teams that miss a game due to illness among
01:15:29
unvaccinated players or staff
01:15:31
indiana university won a lawsuit
01:15:32
challenging its requirement that
01:15:34
students get vaccinated before returning
01:15:36
to campus
01:15:37
and before the anti-vaxxers declare well
01:15:39
this is un-american
01:15:41
or even a hippa violation which they
01:15:43
don't know what that is
01:15:45
there's a legal precedent for making
01:15:46
vaccinations mandatory and penalizing
01:15:49
those who don't get the shot
01:15:51
many states for example imposed smallpox
01:15:53
vaccination requirements
01:15:54
to stem outbreaks back in the 19th
01:15:56
century and in 1905 in
01:15:58
jacobson versus massachusetts the
01:16:00
supreme court ruled
01:16:02
seven to two that doing so is
01:16:04
constitutional
01:16:05
the court's decision held the view that
01:16:06
individual liberty is not absolute
01:16:09
and is subject to the police power in
01:16:11
the state
01:16:12
more than 100 years later we're still
01:16:14
having this argument over vaccinations
01:16:16
over
01:16:17
compulsion and it's coming to a court
01:16:20
near you
01:16:21
joining us now to discuss this is mark
01:16:23
joseph stern he's a staff writer at
01:16:24
slate magazine
01:16:25
covering courts and the law max mark
01:16:28
thanks so much for coming back on the
01:16:29
show
01:16:30
let's start with jacobson versus
01:16:32
massachusetts that case from 1905
01:16:34
pastor jacobson refused a vaccine was
01:16:37
prosecuted and fined
01:16:38
the case reached the supreme court he
01:16:40
argued that the fines the imprisonment
01:16:42
it was an invasion of his liberty the
01:16:44
court disagreed sided with the state of
01:16:46
massachusetts seven to two
01:16:48
what was the basis for that decision and
01:16:50
does it still stand today mark could it
01:16:51
be applied
01:16:52
in relation to covert
01:16:56
yeah so um i'm not sure if you can hear
01:16:58
me because we've got storms in
01:16:59
washington dc right now that are giving
01:17:01
us some uh power outages
01:17:03
um but i will try to uh
01:17:07
i will try to give you my best so
01:17:08
basically it was a
01:17:10
major groundbreaking decision by the
01:17:12
supreme court
01:17:14
uh holding that states have really sweet
01:17:17
powers to protect the health and safety
01:17:20
of their
01:17:21
citizens uh and one of those powers is
01:17:24
requiring mandatory vaccination
01:17:27
not only when there's an outbreak
01:17:28
happening generally to protect the
01:17:31
community
01:17:32
and the supreme court did something that
01:17:34
i wish it did more often today
01:17:36
which was balance the interests of the
01:17:38
individual
01:17:39
against those of the community as a
01:17:41
whole and the court said
01:17:43
you know we understand that this is in
01:17:45
some sense a violation of
01:17:47
individual liberty the state is telling
01:17:49
you that you have to do something
01:17:51
to your body but the court said this is
01:17:53
a justified
01:17:55
infringement on individual liberty the
01:17:57
constitution doesn't guarantee
01:18:00
a total freedom to do anything you want
01:18:02
and the court set
01:18:03
a very low standard here and said as
01:18:06
long as a state
01:18:07
is giving a rational reason for imposing
01:18:10
a vaccine mandate as
01:18:12
long as you know it has a good
01:18:14
justification for forcing
01:18:15
all adults to get vaccinated then it can
01:18:18
do that and courts have
01:18:20
absolutely no business second guessing
01:18:22
the people's representatives who are the
01:18:24
ones tasked with protecting health and
01:18:26
safety
01:18:29
yeah and mark we have this weird
01:18:30
conception of liberty in this country
01:18:32
whereby some on the right think public
01:18:34
health requirements
01:18:36
shouldn't impinge on their freedom to be
01:18:38
selfish or reckless or dangerous
01:18:40
but that's not actually part of our
01:18:42
legal or constitutional tradition is it
01:18:44
it doesn't have a basis in american law
01:18:47
no not at all and you know i i should
01:18:50
note that
01:18:51
some of our conservative justices today
01:18:53
are not
01:18:54
super thrilled with this precedent so
01:18:56
justice alito has criticized it
01:18:59
justice gorsuch has criticized it but
01:19:01
they are very clearly
01:19:03
in a minority and we have seen even
01:19:06
during covid
01:19:07
even when the court issued some
01:19:09
decisions uh sort of relaxing coveted
01:19:11
restrictions
01:19:12
the majority stuck to this basic
01:19:15
principle
01:19:16
that states have a nearly unquestioned
01:19:19
and unquestionable authority
01:19:21
to protect health and safety and that
01:19:23
requiring
01:19:24
uh some public safety measures including
01:19:27
vaccinations
01:19:28
falls under that responsibility so even
01:19:31
if one or two justices
01:19:33
has a very extreme sense of personal
01:19:36
liberty
01:19:37
that could encompass imperiling the
01:19:39
community by refusing to get vaccinated
01:19:41
i am very very confident that a majority
01:19:44
of the court doesn't share that view and
01:19:46
even with this super conservative
01:19:48
supreme court there's no
01:19:50
serious threat that a majority will
01:19:52
overturn jacobson
01:19:54
and give individuals the power to refuse
01:19:56
vaccination
01:20:00
one last question mark states authority
01:20:02
to mandate vaccines to protect the
01:20:04
public is really nothing new
01:20:06
all states or almost all states require
01:20:08
vaccines for school attendance
01:20:10
though anti-vaxxers i guess would hide
01:20:12
behind the technicality that the covert
01:20:14
vaccines
01:20:15
haven't yet been fully approved by the
01:20:17
fda they're being offered under
01:20:18
emergency authorization
01:20:21
yes but that truly doesn't matter um you
01:20:24
know frankly the science and medicine
01:20:26
from this case in 1905 was far less
01:20:29
advanced
01:20:30
uh than the the science we have behind
01:20:32
the coveted vaccinations
01:20:33
people actually did get sick from these
01:20:35
vaccines sometimes
01:20:37
it was fairly rudimentary but the
01:20:38
supreme court said unless an individual
01:20:41
can prove that they will
01:20:42
die if they receive this vaccine
01:20:45
then the state can obligate them to get
01:20:48
it so i don't think that the emergency use
01:20:51
authorization will factor in here
01:20:53
i don't see any court within its right
01:20:55
mind and certainly not the supreme court
01:20:58
using that as an excuse to block
01:21:00
mandatory vaccinations this is a
01:21:02
political problem
01:21:03
it simply is not a constitutional one
01:21:08
and just to be clear president biden
01:21:09
could tomorrow morning
01:21:11
say i'm gonna insist on vaccinated
01:21:14
people only on planes trains
01:21:16
federal government buildings he has that
01:21:19
power
01:21:20
absolutely so you know if pi if biden
01:21:23
tried to pass a
01:21:24
total nationwide mandate on his own i
01:21:27
think that might be on shaky ground
01:21:29
but if we're only talking about things
01:21:30
that the federal government is already
01:21:32
regulating federal property
01:21:34
uh interstate transportation that kind
01:21:36
of thing joe biden could wake up
01:21:38
tomorrow morning
01:21:39
and make that happen and say if you are
01:21:41
not vaccinated
01:21:42
you cannot get on an airplane in this
01:21:44
country
01:21:47
let's hope he does that because you know
01:21:49
what we're running out of time on this
01:21:51
mark joseph stern thank you so much for
01:21:52
your time and your analysis tonight
01:21:54
appreciate it
01:21:57
by the way one of the things about uh
01:21:59
doing discussions on vaccinations is we
01:22:01
have to play lots of footage of people
01:22:02
getting jabbed in the arm which is
01:22:04
hard for me to watch i'm just saying
01:22:06
when we return what exactly is a pelosi
01:22:09
republican
01:22:10
you'll have to ask kevin mccarthy for
01:22:11
the answer to that one but what can
01:22:13
democrats and their bipartisan committee
01:22:15
accomplish
01:22:16
in the aftermath of january the 6th i'm
01:22:18
hoping congressman jamal bowman can
01:22:20
answer that when he joins me live
01:22:22
after the break do not go away it's
01:22:24
going to be a fascinating conversation
01:22:49
[Music]
01:23:01
[Music]
01:23:10
[Music]
01:23:24
[Music]
01:23:38
tomorrow we will finally get a
01:23:40
congressional investigation into the
01:23:41
january 6th insurrection at the capitol
01:23:44
and the chairman of the investigative
01:23:45
committee democratic congressman benny
01:23:47
thompson of mississippi
01:23:48
has said it will go wherever the facts
01:23:50
lead
01:23:52
we have the subpoena authority if the
01:23:55
facts themselves
01:23:56
lead us to any individual
01:23:59
we will not hesitate to bring them
01:24:02
before the committee
01:24:05
but faced with republican obstructionism
01:24:07
can democrats really do what needs to be
01:24:09
done
01:24:10
remember how we got here back in may
01:24:12
thompson and republican john catko
01:24:14
introduced legislation to create a
01:24:16
bipartisan
01:24:17
january vi commission it sailed through
01:24:19
the house and got 54 yes votes in the
01:24:21
senate
01:24:22
six shy of the number needed to break a
01:24:24
republican filibuster
01:24:26
so nancy pelosi created a house select
01:24:28
committee she even gave two seats on it
01:24:29
to republicans
01:24:30
liz cheney of wyoming and over the
01:24:32
weekend she added illinois congressman
01:24:34
adam kinzing into the panel too
01:24:36
both he and the both he and liz cheney
01:24:38
voted to impeach trump
01:24:39
uh for inciting the insurrection back in
01:24:41
january the republican response to all
01:24:43
this has been to try and turn the
01:24:45
committee's investigation
01:24:46
into a circus or at least there's been
01:24:48
plenty of clown show on their part
01:24:50
at the beginning of the month forbes
01:24:52
reported that gop house minority leader
01:24:54
kevin mccarthy had threatened
01:24:55
to take committee assignments away from
01:24:57
any republican who sat on the january 6
01:24:59
committee kinzinger's response quote who gives a s
01:25:03
you make that threat to truth tellers
01:25:05
you've lost any credibility he said
01:25:07
mccarthy did eventually offer pelosi
01:25:08
five republicans for the panel
01:25:10
but they included people like jim jordan
01:25:12
and jim banks who
01:25:13
voted to overturn the election when
01:25:16
pelosi rejected those two names last
01:25:18
week mccarthy pulled all five of his
01:25:20
names and threatened to boycott the whole
01:25:22
committee and just in tonight mccarthy
01:25:24
actually tried to pass a resolution
01:25:26
demanding nancy pelosi seat his gop
01:25:29
picks surprise it failed and today cnn reports
01:25:33
that a growing number of republicans
01:25:34
want to punish
01:25:35
cheney and kenzinger for joining the
01:25:37
january 6 committee
01:25:38
they might have a receptive audience in
01:25:40
their leader kevin mccarthy who had this
01:25:42
to say
01:25:43
about cheney and about kenzinger today
01:25:48
some republicans have been saying that
01:25:52
the gop should play paul on this
01:25:53
committee you could get
01:25:55
that who is that adam and miss people
01:25:58
aren't they kind of like pelosi
01:26:00
republicans
01:26:03
yeah it's childish name calling as liz
01:26:05
cheney later told reporters but it works
01:26:07
to whip republicans
01:26:09
into an anti-democratic anti-pelosi
01:26:11
frenzy
01:26:12
the gop has already blocked donald
01:26:14
trump's impeachment conviction twice
01:26:16
and filibustered almost every major
01:26:18
piece of legislation including
01:26:20
a bipartisan january 6 investigation
01:26:23
now they're going to try to frustrate a
01:26:24
real fact-finding mission
01:26:27
democrats have yet to prove they can
01:26:28
play hardball against those tactics even
01:26:30
if they do
01:26:31
are liberals fooling themselves that
01:26:33
anything approaching justice or the
01:26:35
truth can come out from this
01:26:37
investigation
01:26:38
just like they did with the mueller
01:26:39
investigation which was supposed to have
01:26:41
nailed trump
01:26:42
for multiple and pretty obvious crimes
01:26:44
time and again we've seen democrats put
01:26:46
too much faith in
01:26:47
guard rails and conventions and norms
01:26:50
and too much stock in appearing
01:26:51
bipartisan will they do it again who
01:26:54
better to ask than jamal bowman one of
01:26:56
the party's newest
01:26:57
most outspoken and most progressive
01:26:59
members of congress
01:27:00
since taking office three days before
01:27:02
the insurrection the new york
01:27:03
congressman
01:27:04
has pushed hard for a january 6
01:27:06
commission for police reform for
01:27:08
expanded funding of public schools and
01:27:10
green jobs
01:27:11
all democratic priorities that have
01:27:13
mostly stalled as party leaders bend
01:27:15
over backwards to show
01:27:17
bipartisanship and congressman jamal
01:27:19
bowman from new york and from the squad
01:27:22
joins me now to discuss all of this and
01:27:24
more congressman welcome back to the
01:27:26
show uh thanks for joining me tonight you
01:27:28
were a freshman member of congress on
01:27:29
january the 6th
01:27:31
tell us about what that day was like for
01:27:33
you and why is it that your republican
01:27:34
colleagues who were there with you
01:27:36
lock down with you worried for their
01:27:38
lives as well why they seem so unwilling
01:27:40
to investigate what happened
01:27:43
so on january 6 i was actually thinking
01:27:46
of the war of 1812 which was the last
01:27:48
attack
01:27:49
on the capital uh the last attack and
01:27:52
the only attack in u.s history
01:27:54
so on that day first and foremost i was
01:27:56
thinking of the safety of my colleagues
01:27:58
both democrat
01:27:59
and republican and i'm thankful that it
01:28:02
wasn't more
01:28:03
uh damaging and devastating than it
01:28:05
could have been
01:28:06
now i'm thinking to myself why do
01:28:08
republicans continue to obstruct
01:28:10
now keep in mind they're not only
01:28:12
obstructing uh
01:28:14
the formation of a commission and
01:28:16
investigating what happened on january
01:28:17
6.
01:28:18
they're obstructing every chance they
01:28:20
get both in the house and in the senate
01:28:22
you mentioned uh in terms of
01:28:24
transformative pieces of legislation
01:28:26
that we are trying to put forth like s1
01:28:28
and others so this is what they're about
01:28:30
they're not about democracy
01:28:32
they don't want to get to the bottom of
01:28:33
what happened because guess what
01:28:35
some of them may be found to be
01:28:37
complicit in terms of what happened on
01:28:39
january 6.
01:28:40
what did we know who knew what when
01:28:44
what information was shared we need to
01:28:46
get to the bottom of that for the sake
01:28:48
of our democracy in the present
01:28:49
and in the future
01:28:53
congressman am i wrong to be cynical
01:28:55
about what this committee can achieve is
01:28:57
it actually going to get any answers in
01:28:59
a town like washington dc
01:29:01
it's hard for me to imagine this
01:29:02
democratic party with its obsession with
01:29:04
bipartisanship and
01:29:06
political norms really calling out
01:29:08
republicans who may have been involved
01:29:10
in the insurrection or even subpoenaing
01:29:11
donald trump
01:29:13
we know what republicans did over
01:29:14
benghazi they dragged hillary clinton
01:29:15
into 11 hours of questioning
01:29:17
and benghazi was no capital insurrection
01:29:20
can your party really play hardball
01:29:24
so i am an optimistic person so i am not
01:29:27
cynical but that is not to say that the
01:29:29
american people
01:29:30
should not have their doubts about our
01:29:33
ability
01:29:34
to see this through in a thorough and
01:29:37
fruitful manner
01:29:38
i mean now is the time for our country
01:29:40
to tell the
01:29:41
truth about who we are january 6
01:29:45
showed the world who america is
01:29:48
and oh and again not just because of
01:29:50
donald trump america has had this
01:29:53
simmering beneath its surface
01:29:55
for several decades if not centuries
01:29:57
this is who we are
01:29:58
the january 6 commission gives us the
01:30:00
opportunity
01:30:02
to deal with who we are in an honest
01:30:04
transparent way so the american people
01:30:06
can see
01:30:07
we can hold up the mirror to ourselves
01:30:09
and then begin to rebuild our nation
01:30:12
in a way that acknowledges a robust
01:30:14
democracy for the multiracial
01:30:16
society that we are this is our moment
01:30:19
to do it
01:30:20
and we are engaging with leadership
01:30:22
conversation
01:30:23
to push for this to get done
01:30:27
and the toughness of democrats is a
01:30:29
question that goes beyond january the
01:30:30
6th there's also voting rights
01:30:32
where at this existential moment for
01:30:34
american democracy president joe biden
01:30:36
is still even now against killing the
01:30:38
filibuster still bizarrely thinks he can
01:30:40
protect democracy without reforming the
01:30:42
filibuster have a listen
01:30:45
it's a relic of jim crow it's been used
01:30:47
to fight against civil rights
01:30:48
legislation
01:30:49
historically why protect it there's no
01:30:52
reason to protect it other than
01:30:54
you're going to throw the entire
01:30:56
congress into chaos and nothing will get
01:30:57
done
01:30:58
all right nothing at all will get done
01:31:01
congressman
01:31:02
what is your response to president biden
01:31:06
it's our job to do the hard work
01:31:09
we were elected to come to congress
01:31:13
535 of us to do the most challenging
01:31:17
things that need to be done
01:31:18
to make our country humane strong
01:31:21
and sustainable into the future so
01:31:24
ending the filibuster is what we need to
01:31:26
do
01:31:27
not just to pass s1 s2 s3 and all of the
01:31:31
common sense legislation that need to be
01:31:33
passed in the senate
01:31:34
it's about the future of our nation and
01:31:38
my uh constituents in new york 16
01:31:41
sent me here to do the hard work and the
01:31:43
heavy lifting
01:31:44
that is our job and the philip if if the
01:31:47
president is serious
01:31:49
about racial justice and racial equity
01:31:51
the filibuster
01:31:53
has to end it is a relic of jim crow
01:31:56
it is stopping us from doing the work of
01:31:58
the american people
01:31:59
and allowing my colleagues and those on
01:32:01
the other side of the aisle
01:32:03
to continue to meet the needs of
01:32:04
corporations and the private sector
01:32:07
and our carceral system more than we
01:32:09
meet the needs of working
01:32:10
everyday americans it's unacceptable
01:32:13
it's inhumane
01:32:14
and we have to end it
01:32:18
there is a special election in ohio
01:32:20
congressman to fill hud secretary marcia
01:32:22
fudge's old congressional seat
01:32:24
the democratic primary there pits
01:32:26
progressive nina turner
01:32:28
uh formerly of the bernie sanders
01:32:29
campaign uh whom you and the house squad
01:32:32
members support against a more centrist
01:32:34
democrat chantel brown
01:32:35
who has the backing of the congressional
01:32:37
black caucus and the majority whip jim
01:32:39
clyburn among
01:32:40
others how important is this race how
01:32:42
much does it
01:32:43
symbolize and reflect the internal
01:32:46
battles within the democratic party
01:32:48
today
01:32:51
this race is essential because nina
01:32:54
turner
01:32:55
is an unapologetic progressive and an
01:32:58
unapologetic
01:32:59
champion for racial justice she
01:33:02
is exactly what we need in congress at
01:33:05
this time
01:33:06
right now the squad only contains six of
01:33:09
us
01:33:10
and there are many other members who are
01:33:11
very progressive who support the
01:33:13
majority of the policies that we fight
01:33:16
for the more voices we can get in congress
01:33:18
to fight for those policies
01:33:20
the better uh nina turner is a truth
01:33:23
teller
01:33:24
that is one of the reasons why i
01:33:25
supported her and i'm tired of working
01:33:27
in the congress where
01:33:29
we continue to work under the cloak of
01:33:31
denial
01:33:32
and and lies not just from the
01:33:34
republican party but
01:33:36
but the but the soft bigotry of denial
01:33:38
if you will
01:33:39
that comes from the democratic party so
01:33:41
we need to lift the veil on all of it
01:33:43
and progressive values and progressive
01:33:45
champions is what we need in congress
01:33:47
more than anything at this point
01:33:50
congressman just to be clear so there's
01:33:52
no misunderstanding just unpack the soft
01:33:53
bigotry of denial in the democratic body
01:33:55
what exactly are you referring to there
01:33:58
so there's explicit racism which we
01:34:01
clearly see from the republican party
01:34:03
and then there's implicit bias that is
01:34:06
practiced by many members of the
01:34:08
democratic party
01:34:09
through our policies and procedures
01:34:12
and our holding on to to history and
01:34:15
relics like the filibuster our
01:34:19
budgets reflect our values
01:34:22
and what we uphold as a democracy i'm
01:34:25
going through the appropriations process
01:34:27
right now and we have to look at how
01:34:29
much we fund
01:34:31
the carceral system versus how much we
01:34:33
fund
01:34:34
the uplifting of black and brown and
01:34:36
poor people in this country
01:34:38
we spend billions hundreds of billions
01:34:40
of dollars
01:34:41
to blow up countries and put people in
01:34:43
prison but we don't spend the same
01:34:45
amount of money
01:34:46
to feed and educate and house people
01:34:48
that is unacceptable
01:34:50
and much of that is rooted in that soft
01:34:52
bigotry of denial
01:34:56
just returning to the ohio race
01:34:57
congressman a pack
01:34:59
called a democratic majority for israel
01:35:01
rather right wing group has bought
01:35:03
half a million dollars worth of ads
01:35:05
against nina turner that same pack i
01:35:07
believe spent two million
01:35:08
reportedly for your opponent uh in your
01:35:10
primary race incumbent congressman
01:35:12
elliot engel
01:35:13
which you won that race the
01:35:15
israeli-palestinian issue
01:35:17
seems to be raising its head more and
01:35:18
more in some of these democratic
01:35:20
congressional primaries and in may
01:35:22
you and your fellow new york freshman
01:35:24
congressman richie torres had a very
01:35:25
public
01:35:26
difference of opinion over israel's
01:35:28
attacks on gaza
01:35:30
how divided is the democratic party
01:35:32
these days on when it comes
01:35:34
to the treatment of the palestinians and
01:35:36
that whole issue
01:35:39
i think the conversation has shifted
01:35:41
tremendously
01:35:42
over the last several years i think we
01:35:44
are having
01:35:45
more conversations around palestinian
01:35:48
palestinian humanity palestinian rights
01:35:51
ending the occupation etc and holding
01:35:55
israel
01:35:56
accountable in terms of ensuring that
01:35:58
our aid
01:35:59
doesn't go to the detaining of children
01:36:01
i think that conversation is becoming
01:36:03
more public
01:36:04
and that is a good thing because that
01:36:05
needs to happen you cannot we cannot
01:36:08
sustain
01:36:09
the safety and security of israel while
01:36:11
continuing to oppress the palestinian
01:36:13
people that cannot happen
01:36:15
so we have to talk about pro-humanity
01:36:18
and human rights across the board
01:36:20
for every group that we want to uplift
01:36:22
and support and say they have a right to
01:36:23
defend themselves
01:36:24
we have to uplift and support other
01:36:27
groups as well so
01:36:28
the conversation is shifting but it
01:36:30
needs to continue to
01:36:32
shift and we need to continue to move
01:36:34
towards the human rights of not just
01:36:35
palestinians but pushing back against
01:36:38
human rights violations across the globe
01:36:42
yes uh and i need to ask you this
01:36:44
congressman i know something close to
01:36:46
your heart this month you introduced a
01:36:47
one and a half trillion dollar
01:36:49
green new deal for american public
01:36:50
schools what would that do
01:36:53
why is it needed now and what are the
01:36:54
chances of getting into the
01:36:56
reconciliation bill
01:36:59
we're very optimistic that some of this
01:37:02
can get into the reconciliation bill
01:37:04
our school buildings are falling apart
01:37:06
they're 100 years old we have kids
01:37:08
drinking
01:37:09
uh water fountains that are laced with
01:37:11
lead and and and
01:37:13
go into bathrooms that don't have hot
01:37:14
water so we need to rebuild our physical
01:37:16
infrastructure
01:37:17
we also need a revolution in terms of
01:37:19
how kids learn within our school system
01:37:21
we need to design learning spaces that
01:37:24
align with the challenges
01:37:25
of a 21st century economy that's why we
01:37:28
need more stem and steam and science in
01:37:30
the arts so that our kids can tap into who they
01:37:32
are as problem solvers
01:37:34
and curious creative collaborators to
01:37:37
solve the problems of the real world
01:37:39
once they graduate from school
01:37:40
so we're looking to invest heavily
01:37:42
bringing more teachers more counselors
01:37:44
but more creativity into our school
01:37:47
system so that we can tap into what kids
01:37:49
naturally do well
01:37:50
which is problem solved
01:37:54
one last quick question congressman uh
01:37:56
you were a public school teacher
01:37:58
uh you're also a black man how much
01:38:01
critical race theory did you teach your
01:38:02
students
01:38:04
[Laughter]
01:38:06
zero zero critical race theory but i did
01:38:10
teach them knowledge of self and i did teach them
01:38:13
knowledge of american history
01:38:15
and that's what republicans are afraid
01:38:17
of they don't want us again
01:38:18
to pull back the curtain of our true
01:38:20
history
01:38:21
because it might reveal something uh
01:38:24
that you know they don't want us to talk
01:38:25
about
01:38:26
but uh no no critical race theory just
01:38:28
knowledge of self
01:38:32
well said congressman jamal bowman
01:38:33
always a pleasure thank you for your
01:38:34
time tonight
01:38:37
breaking news at this hour former
01:38:39
california senator barbara boxer says
01:38:41
she was assaulted today in what sounds
01:38:43
like a mugging
01:38:44
a tweet on her account says an assailant
01:38:46
pushed her and stole her cell phone
01:38:48
before fleeing
01:38:49
into a waiting vehicle while she was in
01:38:51
oakland senator boxer thankfully was not
01:38:53
seriously injured
01:38:54
oakland police have confirmed the
01:38:56
account but have not identified a
01:38:57
suspect
01:38:58
they're offering a reward for
01:38:59
information leading to an arrest
01:39:02
and coming up we'll tell you why
01:39:04
protesters demonstrated outside senator
01:39:07
kirsten cinemas
01:39:08
phoenix office today when we return in
01:39:11
60 seconds
01:39:17
[Music]
01:39:28
[Music]
01:39:46
[Music]
01:39:57
[Music]
01:40:07
[Music]
01:40:20
[Music]
01:40:34
so
01:40:38
as republicans continue to restrict
01:40:41
voting rights and
01:40:42
gut our democracy in state after state
01:40:44
including
01:40:45
arizona the grand canyon state's own
01:40:47
senior democratic senator kirsten cinema
01:40:49
remember her
01:40:50
continues to block any move to reform
01:40:53
the senate filibuster
01:40:54
so that pro-democracy legislation can
01:40:57
get passed
01:40:58
at the federal level and you know what
01:41:00
she's winning lots of new fans for her
01:41:02
position on the filibuster
01:41:04
just none of them in her own party at
01:41:06
the weekend charlie kirk
01:41:08
the far-right conspiracist and
01:41:10
provocateur and head of the pro-trump
01:41:12
turning point usa group
01:41:14
said this about cinema
01:41:17
now i will say kirsten cinema is more of
01:41:20
a republican than john mccain ever was
01:41:22
but
01:41:28
and i'm not even saying that's a good
01:41:29
thing i'm saying that's the way it is
01:41:33
and at least she's holding the line in
01:41:34
the filibuster
01:41:37
if charlie kirk praising you and calling
01:41:40
you a republican doesn't make you
01:41:41
reconsider your entire voting record
01:41:43
and even your life choices then i don't
01:41:46
know what well
01:41:47
congratulations senator cinema maga is
01:41:49
your new base it seems
01:41:51
it's hard to know what cinema's thinking
01:41:53
though because she refuses to give
01:41:54
interviews to national media
01:41:56
organizations
01:41:57
for all we know she might be delighted
01:41:58
by kirk's praise for her
01:42:00
it's worth remembering that she loves
01:42:02
john mccain she said she wanted to be
01:42:04
the next john mccain
01:42:05
and called a maverick republican her
01:42:07
personal hero
01:42:08
the thing is mccain famously went
01:42:10
against his own party and used his
01:42:12
thumbs down vote to
01:42:14
save health care cinema went against her
01:42:17
own party and used her thumbs down vote
01:42:20
to save corporations from paying a 15
01:42:23
minimum wage and mccain tried to win the
01:42:27
presidency for his party
01:42:28
cinema is trying to lose it for hers but
01:42:31
as i say
01:42:32
a growing number of republicans adore
01:42:33
her democrats
01:42:35
not so much according to recent polling
01:42:37
by the liberal think tank data for
01:42:39
progress cinema's approval rating in arizona
01:42:41
stands at a tepid
01:42:42
plus two points data for progress says
01:42:45
those numbers stand in stark contrast to
01:42:47
those received
01:42:48
by senator mark kelly her colleague from
01:42:50
the state of arizona
01:42:51
with 50 percent of voters approving of
01:42:53
his work as senator
01:42:54
and a net approval of plus 11 points
01:42:57
across
01:42:58
party lines senator kelly has already
01:43:00
achieved a much stronger reputation in
01:43:02
the eyes of arizonans
01:43:04
now cinema does have a higher approval
01:43:06
among republican voters surprise
01:43:09
than both mark kelly and joe biden but
01:43:11
they won't be the ones voting for her
01:43:13
next time around among likely democratic
01:43:16
primary voters
01:43:17
only one in five say they'll vote for
01:43:19
cinema come 2024
01:43:21
if she holds to her line on the
01:43:22
filibuster exactly what charlie kirk was
01:43:25
praising her for
01:43:27
now some people think cinema is doing
01:43:29
this because she believes in the
01:43:30
filibuster she believes in it she
01:43:31
believes in the bipartisan appeal of the
01:43:33
filibuster
01:43:34
that's nonsense we know that she knows
01:43:36
it's all bs
01:43:38
because she said so herself back in
01:43:39
2010.
01:43:41
i think as the president so eloquently
01:43:42
said on wednesday there's none of this
01:43:44
pressure
01:43:45
this false pressure to get to 60. so
01:43:47
what that means
01:43:48
is that the democrats
01:43:51
can stop um cow tying to joe lieberman
01:43:54
and instead seek other avenues to move
01:43:57
forward with health reform and so it's
01:43:58
likely that the senate will move forward
01:44:00
with a process called
01:44:01
reconciliation which takes only 51 votes
01:44:07
so maybe just maybe this isn't actually
01:44:11
about the filibuster or her deep deeply
01:44:13
held beliefs
01:44:14
maybe this isn't just all political
01:44:16
calculation on her part either isn't
01:44:18
about her trying to hold on to her seat in a tough
01:44:20
red state given arizona remember now has
01:44:22
two democratic senators and went for joe
01:44:24
biden in the presidential election
01:44:26
maybe kirsten cinema just likes looking
01:44:30
out for the republican party
01:44:31
no matter the cost to our democracy
01:44:33
maybe
01:44:35
when we come back snooping on the
01:44:38
snoopers
01:44:39
inside the effort from an israeli
01:44:40
company to help hack the phones of world
01:44:43
leaders journalists and more reportedly back in
01:44:46
just a moment with a big big
01:45:00
story
01:45:02
[Music]
01:45:14
so
01:45:19
[Music]
01:45:30
[Music]
01:45:40
[Music]
01:45:53
[Music]
01:46:13
[Music]
01:46:20
[Music]
01:46:42
have you ever changed your phone have
01:46:44
you ever changed your phone number
01:46:46
it's not exactly a fun thing to do but
01:46:48
that's exactly what the french president
01:46:50
recently had to do
01:46:51
emmanuel macron was forced to make the
01:46:52
change last week after reports that his
01:46:54
number
01:46:55
was one of thousands targeted with
01:46:57
israeli-made
01:46:58
spyware called pegasus his office has
01:47:01
called
01:47:02
for an investigation into the
01:47:03
allegations from last week's explosive
01:47:06
global investigation by 16 news
01:47:09
organizations including the guardian and
01:47:10
the washington post
01:47:12
called the pegasus project it alleges
01:47:14
that governments around the world
01:47:16
use pegasus to hack the phones of
01:47:19
journalists of
01:47:20
activists of academics and yes even
01:47:23
heads of state
01:47:24
from emmanuel macron of france to
01:47:26
pakistan's prime minister imran khan
01:47:28
in fact ten prime ministers three
01:47:31
presidents and a king
01:47:33
were reportedly targeted the israeli
01:47:35
surveillance firm behind pegasus the nso
01:47:38
group says macron was not a target of any of
01:47:41
their clients
01:47:42
but according to israeli sources who
01:47:44
spoke to reuters israel has now set up a
01:47:46
task force to investigate the nso
01:47:48
related allegations
01:47:50
last night on this show on msnbc i spoke
01:47:53
with anias calamar
01:47:54
the secretary general of amnesty
01:47:55
international an organization that's
01:47:57
helped with this particular
01:47:58
investigation
01:48:00
she called the spyware a weapon a weapon
01:48:03
that needs regulation it's a weapon that
01:48:07
is used to
01:48:08
undermine human rights it's a weapon
01:48:11
that is used to
01:48:12
undermine fair trial to undermine
01:48:14
democratic principles to violate
01:48:17
freedom of the press we need a
01:48:19
moratorium while we're developing
01:48:21
the regulatory framework at
01:48:23
international level
01:48:26
according to the reporters and news
01:48:28
organizations behind the pegasus project
01:48:30
morocco licensed the so-called weapon
01:48:33
the spyware from this israeli firm to
01:48:36
use against the president of france and
01:48:39
israel whose defense ministry has to
01:48:40
approve any government licensing of
01:48:42
pegasus
01:48:43
has been transacting with supposed
01:48:46
regional rivals
01:48:48
like the saudis like the emiratis for
01:48:50
years now knowing full
01:48:51
well what such countries what such
01:48:54
repressive dictatorships
01:48:56
will do with this kind of technology
01:48:58
moroccan authorities in the case
01:49:00
of emmanuel macron's phone number have
01:49:01
denied the claims
01:49:03
in fact according to the new york times
01:49:05
israel secretly authorized even
01:49:07
encouraged a group of cyber surveillance
01:49:09
firms including nso
01:49:11
to work for saudi arabia even after the
01:49:13
saudis
01:49:15
brutally killed journalist jamal
01:49:17
khashoggi it shouldn't come as a
01:49:19
surprise that the saudi government has
01:49:21
used the spyware not just on khashoggi
01:49:23
but a whole lot of other people who've
01:49:25
been critical of them
01:49:26
including the london-based saudi
01:49:28
academic madawi rasheed
01:49:31
she's arguing that this alleged
01:49:32
development quote highlights the
01:49:34
consolidation of a new axis of evil
01:49:36
israel saudi arabia and the uae
01:49:39
countries she says
01:49:40
aiming to stifle the quest for democracy
01:49:43
in the region
01:49:44
earlier i spoke with madawi rasheed
01:49:46
about what she's done
01:49:47
since discovering she was a target
01:49:51
madawi al-rasheed thank you so much for
01:49:53
joining me on the show tonight
01:49:55
in a column for middle east eye this
01:49:57
week you said your work to expose the
01:49:59
crimes of the saudi regime
01:50:01
led to the hacking attempt on your phone
01:50:04
how did you find out you were targeted
01:50:06
and what was your first
01:50:07
thought when you found out i always
01:50:10
suspected that i would be targeted one
01:50:12
day
01:50:13
and i was in 2014 and that was my
01:50:16
twitter account
01:50:17
so i was expecting it and and the
01:50:21
until my phone rang and i had the
01:50:24
guardian journalist
01:50:25
and amnesia national security lab
01:50:28
who convinced me that my telephone
01:50:31
number
01:50:32
was on that 50 000 number list
01:50:35
and would i like to go for this
01:50:38
investigation
01:50:39
i hesitated but they assured me in
01:50:42
writing
01:50:43
that this is going to be under control
01:50:46
they're going to access my phone and
01:50:49
trans
01:50:50
fur the content of my phone to the lab
01:50:54
and they will only use the data that
01:50:56
would give them an indication
01:50:59
uh about whether my phone was hacked
01:51:02
and the process took something like
01:51:04
three hours
01:51:06
and i was watching my life the content
01:51:09
of
01:51:10
my professional and private life
01:51:13
travel virtually to that lab
01:51:16
and when we finished uh three four hours
01:51:19
later i got a phone call to say there is
01:51:21
evidence
01:51:23
that my phone was targeted in april 2019
01:51:27
and fortunately it wasn't successful
01:51:33
that's good news
01:51:35
uh what steps have you taken to secure
01:51:37
your phone
01:51:38
and other devices since discovering all
01:51:40
this and how worried are you now about
01:51:42
your personal safety too today well
01:51:46
um since the murder of khashoggi in
01:51:48
october 2018
01:51:50
i did take precautions and that cost me
01:51:53
a lot of money because
01:51:55
i couldn't impose my insecurities and
01:51:58
vulnerabilities on my institution the
01:52:01
london school of economics
01:52:03
so i paid for my own security
01:52:06
and installed certain software and i
01:52:10
hope they are successful since i heard
01:52:13
the recent news about me being targeted
01:52:17
again my institution the london school
01:52:20
of economics had been very helpful i had
01:52:22
long chats with their
01:52:24
i.t department and cyber security
01:52:26
department
01:52:27
and we are doing our best but
01:52:30
as i was told again and again that there
01:52:33
is no
01:52:34
a hundred percent security they will try
01:52:37
again and see
01:52:43
i mean we hope that this kind of
01:52:44
journalism will you know make them think
01:52:46
twice before trying again but of course
01:52:47
these are the people who
01:52:48
uh the saudis anyways are the people who
01:52:50
are accused of murdering and butchering
01:52:52
jamal khashoggi
01:52:53
friends and family of jamal have long
01:52:55
maintained that he was tracked through
01:52:57
his phone
01:52:58
and now reporters for this pegasus
01:53:00
project have confirmed that the cell
01:53:01
phones of his partner
01:53:02
and several other associates had been
01:53:04
hacked with pegasus spyware
01:53:07
did that come as a surprise to you
01:53:10
no i mean espionage is as old as
01:53:13
government what we have at the moment is
01:53:16
a completely different situation
01:53:19
whereby espionage and the technology
01:53:21
that goes with it
01:53:22
are sold in an open market
01:53:26
uh almost and uh although they should be
01:53:30
treated uh like the uh you know sale of weapons
01:53:34
and armaments
01:53:35
unfortunately they're not and this a
01:53:38
specific case of the
01:53:40
nso group that is based in israel
01:53:43
is licensed by the israeli government to
01:53:46
sell this
01:53:47
to other governments and the clients are
01:53:50
other governments
01:53:51
however i think the episode
01:53:54
this recent episode draws our attention
01:53:57
to how important
01:53:58
it is even for governments to reach an
01:54:01
agreement about the sale of such
01:54:03
malicious technologies
01:54:07
as we have seen heads of states are
01:54:09
being hacked
01:54:11
and there are attempts on their phones
01:54:13
and they are
01:54:14
on the list so governments are doing it
01:54:16
against each other
01:54:18
which they have always done but this is
01:54:21
a completely different situation it is
01:54:24
an unregulated market and people like
01:54:27
myself and many many others who don't have the
01:54:30
institutional backing
01:54:32
are victims of it
01:54:36
you mentioned nso and the israeli links
01:54:39
you're a middle east scholar
01:54:40
are you surprised to see this company
01:54:42
nso whose founders according to the
01:54:43
washington post
01:54:44
are former members of israel's elite
01:54:46
unit 8200
01:54:48
which conducts electronic surveillance
01:54:50
is analogous to the u.s national
01:54:51
security agency
01:54:53
to see it working with repressive arab
01:54:55
governments like saudi arabia like the
01:54:56
uae helping them
01:54:57
surveil democracy activists and scholars
01:55:00
such as yourself
01:55:02
yes absolutely and that is correct and i
01:55:05
came across this information
01:55:07
in 2016 and uh
01:55:10
after the murder of jamal khashoggi when
01:55:12
i first encountered
01:55:14
nso group and it is part of the
01:55:17
privatization of security
01:55:19
that has taken place around the world
01:55:22
and specifically in israel let's not
01:55:24
forget that the founders
01:55:26
of nso had been trained in the israeli
01:55:30
army defense force and they could have
01:55:32
been
01:55:33
mossad agents and they're allowed to set
01:55:36
up these private companies so it is this
01:55:38
privatization of security that is
01:55:40
leading to
01:55:41
this proliferation of malicious
01:55:44
software and and techniques
01:55:49
yes they're just to be clear there's no
01:55:52
evidence that the founders of the nso
01:55:54
were mossad agents but they are linked
01:55:56
to as i said the washington post
01:55:57
that are reporting uh that they were
01:55:59
members of unit 8200
01:56:01
this signals intelligence part of the
01:56:02
israeli defense establishment
01:56:04
uh madawi al-rasheed thank you so much
01:56:06
for joining me today thank you for your
01:56:07
insights and please do stay safe
01:56:12
one last thing before we go tonight we
01:56:14
live in a remarkable time
01:56:16
technology allows us to talk with our
01:56:18
friends and family across the globe on
01:56:20
platforms like
01:56:21
zoom the producers on this show meet
01:56:23
every day on microsoft teams
01:56:25
that is when they're not accidentally
01:56:27
muted and technology allows me to anchor
01:56:29
this show
01:56:30
from my home from my basement did you
01:56:32
know that
01:56:33
we superimposed this cool wework style
01:56:37
workspace background using a green
01:56:40
screen behind me
01:56:41
i mean hypothetically i could anchor
01:56:43
from anywhere
01:56:45
thanks to the miracle of television i
01:56:47
could be in front of the pyramids in
01:56:49
egypt
01:56:50
out running a polar bear in the arctic
01:56:54
or even in front of london bridge no not
01:56:57
the london bridge in arizona the london
01:56:58
bridge in london
01:57:00
in the business we call a moment like
01:57:02
this breaking the fourth wall
01:57:04
in this case the fourth wall being the
01:57:06
giant monitor behind me
01:57:08
sorry john that's our director but what
01:57:11
all this technology
01:57:12
can't do right now is bring my parents
01:57:15
here to america
01:57:16
not physically my parents in the uk who
01:57:19
haven't been able to see their
01:57:20
grandchildren for two years
01:57:22
trump put a travel ban on europeans
01:57:24
coming into the us
01:57:26
and with the delta variant on the rise
01:57:27
apparently the biden administration is
01:57:29
keeping that ban
01:57:31
we have the technology to communicate
01:57:33
across borders
01:57:34
we have the science to defeat the virus
01:57:38
but what we don't have is enough people
01:57:40
willing to wear a damn mask
01:57:42
or get a free miracle vaccine we don't
01:57:45
have enough concern
01:57:46
for our fellow americans so my kids
01:57:49
can't see their grandparents in the
01:57:50
flesh
01:57:51
and no amount of technology can fix that
01:57:55
that does it for me tonight make sure to
01:57:57
join us on instagram
01:57:58
twitter tick tock facebook and i'll see
01:58:01
you back here tomorrow night from my basement 7 p.m
01:58:04
eastern live right here on peacock
01:58:06
good night
01:58:25
[Music]
01:58:33
you

Description:

Zerlina. airs 6 p.m. ET weeknights on Peacock: Incisive and timely coverage of politics and current events, through in-depth conversations that unpack the latest developments in this era's breakneck news cycle and draw back the curtain on their real-world consequences. Watch the Mehdi Hasan Show at 7 p.m. ET weeknights on Peacock: Insightful reporting and probing interviews that examine the day's events and provide a deeper level of context for the politics of our interconnected society. Subscribe. https://www.peacocktv.com/unavailable

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