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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:03
together christ is resurrected from the00:00:06
dead by death and the sale that00:00:08
death and to those who are in the00:00:09
tombs he gave life christos00:00:11
wasquehal 1 6 linear meter which are00:00:13
not full of strain or00:00:14
Maghrebi players of rabah crystals00:00:16
are announce techniques ronson atos00:00:18
waiting pastry this estimate is00:00:20
interesting but do not dare Christ is00:00:23
resurrected in truth and resurrect them00:00:31
a sandrine to you the word then I00:00:37
thank you all those who organized00:00:40
this cycle of catechesis and we are going00:00:44
today of which spoke to lose00:00:47
milk we talk a lot about the fathers of00:00:51
the church in our Orthodox church00:00:52
but ultimately we read them relatively little and00:00:55
we know them quite poorly and yet the00:00:57
entire church is based on their00:01:00
experience their experience of the00:01:02
Triune God and on all their00:01:05
pastoral and theological thoughts and therefore his00:01:10
peers we will try as soon as it is to00:01:11
understand who his peers are00:01:13
how we can understand them how00:01:16
we can enter their minds then00:01:19
why we call them father because00:01:20
they are people who are capable00:01:22
of engender us to the Christian life00:01:25
we call them fathers in the faith because they00:01:28
are capable of forming our faith00:01:32
to show us what is the path of00:01:34
our faith that we grow in00:01:37
faith moment faithful to the will of God00:01:43
and therefore we will look at how they00:01:45
fit into history00:01:46
and how they are successive throughout the00:01:48
centuries and we will try to00:01:51
focus on the spiritual life the life00:01:53
of the church the life of prayer on their00:01:56
pastoral concerns00:01:57
what was the most important for them00:02:00
as a pastor what did they seek to00:02:02
transmit as in form and it to their00:02:05
faithful and what do they expect from their00:02:08
faithful00:02:09
so we will try to00:02:11
concentrate on their spirituality00:02:13
the spirituality which transmits to us and00:02:17
we are stopped on the heights which00:02:19
will be able to nourish our00:02:21
prayer our Christian life by the00:02:24
spiritual quality of their thought therefore00:02:28
the Orthodox Church totally and00:02:30
all the time constantly refers to the00:02:32
holy father and their writings because they00:02:34
are in fact the heritage of our faith00:02:37
we could almost say that they are00:02:40
consubstantial with our church and their00:02:44
teachings are widely inserted in00:02:47
our Christian life what are they00:02:50
going to they are even in our liturgy00:02:52
we are talking about the liturgy of Saint00:02:54
Basil and of Saint John Chrysostom but00:02:56
also in all our skis dear to all00:02:58
our liturgical prayers all our00:03:04
liturgical offices are a compilation00:03:05
of the thought of the fathers and therefore00:03:09
the teaching of the holy fathers are00:03:11
for us absolutely inseparable from00:03:14
our Christian life and if we want00:03:18
to try to understand a little that they are00:03:21
if we need if we ask ourselves00:03:24
some questions for example00:03:26
can we understand from the00:03:28
depths of holy scripture the00:03:32
language of holy scripture00:03:35
can we understand the dogmas of00:03:37
our faith is what we can00:03:38
try to if we seek to try00:03:41
to progress in our relationship with00:03:43
god in our relationships even00:03:46
interpersonal avoid all the traps00:03:48
and illusions of the spiritual life00:03:51
is what the fathers will help us00:03:54
is what if we want try00:03:56
to interpret scriptures to00:03:59
understand the content our faith to live00:04:01
the spirit of the church well we00:04:05
have to return to the breast it takes place to00:04:08
integrate them and and discover in them00:04:11
all the answers to our questions00:04:13
because 'in fact their answers00:04:15
are extremely rich here is basically what00:04:20
we are going to try to voice so00:04:22
in this introduction00:04:25
then I have a problem I ca00:04:28
n't I can't read my hockey00:04:35
we we in this introduction so00:04:39
we are going to try to establish a little00:04:41
framework of who his peers are the first00:04:44
thing I want to say is that they00:04:45
are giants and that we are00:04:48
dwarves sitting on the shoulders of00:04:50
giants and it is not because that we00:04:53
see further than that we are00:04:55
better it is because if we see00:04:57
more things and further away it is00:05:00
not because of the insight of00:05:02
our sight nor of our greatness it is00:05:05
because we are00:05:06
elevated by them by remaining on their00:05:08
shoulders so let us never forget that if00:05:11
we have the impression of being more00:05:15
advanced on certain points it is because00:05:17
we are on the shoulders of the00:05:20
giants who have given all the00:05:24
foundations to our faith and to our church life00:05:27
so now what does00:05:30
the expression mean and father of the church00:05:35
then we call fathers of the church00:05:39
which therefore lay monks priests bishops00:05:41
have fertilized the faith of the church and have00:05:45
begotten at the same time all the00:05:47
generations of future believers that we00:05:49
are so we are members of00:05:51
the church begotten by what we00:05:54
call the fathers how we can recognize them00:05:56
so we have four essential characteristics00:06:00
they are connected to antiquity00:06:04
so these islands are at the origin00:06:10
so some therefore particularly among00:06:13
our Catholic brothers we give a00:06:16
bit of a cut-off date of the fathers00:06:19
so we say that they go from the origins00:06:21
that is to say from the apostles the successors00:06:23
of the apostles up to Gregory the great where00:06:25
up to Isidore of Seville sometimes00:06:28
barely the venerable00:06:29
in the West and up to John Damascene in00:06:32
the East or sometimes up to the great schism00:06:37
in the West but we will see that in any00:06:40
case we in our Orthodox Church00:06:41
do not give of limit or father00:06:45
is ready imminent00:06:48
until today the first00:06:52
characteristic therefore it is antiquity00:06:54
and we will deepen this00:06:56
question a little later the holiness00:06:58
of which they have been00:07:00
officially glorified number or not yet00:07:01
verified or not glorified at all there is00:07:04
a holiness of life among one's peers an00:07:06
exemplary life universality00:07:10
that means that everything they go00:07:13
everything that the church has retained two has00:07:17
become the heritage of the00:07:19
universal church and therefore our heritage and00:07:24
we could say the fourth point which00:07:26
is very important is their authority00:07:27
therefore the approval of the church which00:07:30
officially cites their doctrine and which makes00:07:33
their thoughts their doctrines and00:07:35
in the eure their spiritual path the00:07:38
path that it traces us to an authority00:07:42
is good for each of us we can00:07:47
add to these four characteristics00:07:49
four others which deepen a00:07:53
little bit what we have just said they are00:07:54
men 17 first00:07:56
ecumenical council whether contemporary00:07:59
or no and we can think for00:08:02
example of the books of Kallistos ware00:08:04
the church 17 council still today00:08:08
we live from this of this church 1700:08:12
council and therefore whether we are contemporary00:08:14
with these councils or whether you today00:08:17
we are men of c2c 7 council00:08:20
and therefore this is why the fathers can00:08:21
still be among us today and00:08:23
we obviously have many of them00:08:28
until 1054 they belong to a church00:08:31
which is still relatively united and that00:08:33
is important too because it is00:08:35
from these sources that we00:08:36
will be able to find unity 200:08:39
our churches to divide they are00:08:42
mainly of classical Greco-Latin culture00:08:45
but also of00:08:48
Syriac culture that is also important00:08:53
and they themselves were sons and works00:08:56
in collegiality00:08:57
so they have these are sons who have00:08:59
become fathers we cannot become fathers who00:09:01
have not been sons and a father is00:09:04
never alone so that is fundamental00:09:06
if we are interested in fathers and we00:09:10
only take the thought of one father we00:09:13
risk going astray00:09:18
because a meter alone is not00:09:21
infallible00:09:22
a father is never alone he must be00:09:25
in collegiality with others and he00:09:28
is very often complementary they00:09:31
are very often complementary to00:09:32
each other00:09:33
so as I say on this power slope00:09:36
for the orthodox churches the00:09:38
succession of the fathers has never00:09:39
stopped until today00:09:41
so we are talking about the fathers of the council we have00:09:44
a celebration for the fathers of the council00:09:47
in particular of the first ecumenical council00:09:49
in nice is then with all these criteria00:09:52
we can say that some do not satisfy00:09:55
these criteria00:09:56
for example someone like all the00:09:58
criteria someone like tertullian or00:09:59
like origen they are sometimes called00:10:02
only ecclesiastical writers and00:10:05
yet they are nevertheless considered00:10:07
fathers because the gold value00:10:10
of their works and the fertility of their00:10:13
spiritual and theological thought is00:10:16
obviously considerable so they are00:10:20
still called fathers but they have00:10:21
not been glorified and they have, for00:10:23
some of them, made00:10:26
some errors,00:10:27
so the fathers are not00:10:28
perfect, fortunately loved, the church00:10:32
would have here knows how to discern between them,00:10:34
this is what should be00:10:38
kept from their teachings, from their00:10:40
thinking, from their example and what00:10:43
should not be kept then others00:10:46
are recognized as one00:10:48
as there is eminently00:10:50
exemplary teaching for the church and they00:10:53
later often received the title of doctor of00:10:57
the church therefore in the church Latin Ambroise00:10:59
Jérôme Augustin Grégory Legrand and among00:11:04
the Greeks Athanase Basil Grégoire de Nazianze00:11:07
Jean Chrysostome and among the Syriacs00:11:10
in any case for Latin homes in00:11:13
any case they are also called doctor00:11:15
my phrase Ephrem or Jacques de Saarburg00:11:17
among the Syriacs so why00:11:22
are they important what we00:11:24
owe them and as I said during my00:11:28
introduction00:11:29
when we gave our introduction00:11:31
to each of us on our paths00:11:34
in fact they gave us everything that's00:11:37
really why they are cdg in00:11:40
what way so they gave us the bible00:11:43
the Christian bible00:11:44
what is the biblical canoe these are00:11:45
the fathers that they have we could almost00:11:48
say that they shaped00:11:49
they gave us the liturgy the entire00:11:52
liturgical corpus and all the linography00:11:54
of all year round and liturgical in any00:11:56
case here I am obviously talking about the00:11:58
Byzantine liturgical year they gave us00:12:01
the creed is the whole faith of the church00:12:02
they gave us monasticism and00:12:05
all the ascetic theology of the church00:12:07
they gave us gave us the churches that they00:12:09
founded they founded a lot00:12:11
of churches and they gave us the church00:12:14
itself in its plurality with all00:12:18
the councils in which they00:12:20
sat and they gave us00:12:25
particular religious authority in the00:12:29
Christian tradition a tradition00:12:30
faithful to Christ and the apostles which00:12:33
is part of various cultures and00:12:35
various languages so we owe them absolutely everything so00:12:38
we are really dwarves on their00:12:40
shoulders their fertility is obviously00:12:44
limitless and I wanted to00:12:46
quote you a few small quotes from00:12:48
some of our contemporaries00:12:51
for example Henri de Lubac each time00:12:55
in our West that a00:12:56
Christian renewal has flourished in the order of00:12:58
thought as in00:13:00
that of life it has flourished under the00:13:03
sign of the fathers the reason why00:13:07
it is really necessary not only00:13:09
to be around them but to familiarize ourselves00:13:11
with them to enter into their spirit and00:13:15
when their spirits begin to live00:13:17
in us then we are shown00:13:19
truly into the spirit of the church00:13:25
in our western world of00:13:28
techniques or changes of society00:13:30
is really accelerating at high speed00:13:33
we have in the fathers a00:13:35
stable and lasting foundation and that is very00:13:38
important because otherwise the church00:13:41
would change its mind every00:13:43
generation and we would no longer have where to go for00:13:45
the church n 'it's not a beautiful boat that00:13:47
floats with every wind of doctrine the church00:13:49
an extremely solid and extremely00:13:51
powerful plowshare extremely stable and it's00:13:54
really fundamental turn so we00:13:59
keep with them a biblical language00:14:01
and the image is therefore there it' is very00:14:03
important also the fathers are in the00:14:05
direct continuity of the apostles and of00:14:07
Christ of course but also of the00:14:10
biblical language00:14:11
this is the reason why the more we00:14:13
know the Bible the more easily we will enter00:14:16
into the spirit and in the00:14:18
language of the fathers and the more we00:14:20
know the language of the lands the more00:14:21
we do not easily enter into the00:14:24
language of the Bible so there is there is00:14:26
like the same language not only00:14:28
it is the same language from the point of view in00:14:29
any case for the Greek pairs00:14:30
the history of text since our bible00:14:33
from the bible to September Greek and that00:14:35
the pairs Greek and crimes also in00:14:37
Greek00:14:38
it uses the same expressions here00:14:40
and even the expressions which are those of00:14:43
expression of philosophy00:14:44
they will integrate them into an00:14:46
imaged language and into the language biblical and00:14:48
so that is very important00:14:50
it gives us an absolutely unshakable theology00:14:54
it gives us a diversity of00:14:57
approaches so that is also very00:14:58
important because even if the dogma of00:15:01
the Christian faith is absolutely sure00:15:05
and precise there is nevertheless a00:15:08
diversity of approaches in00:15:10
the interpretation of the00:15:11
drake in the spiritual interpretation00:15:13
in the conduct of souls00:15:15
so we are not in a single thought00:15:17
so that is also important especially00:15:18
in today's world and in through00:15:21
this diversity he gives us a00:15:23
consensus and unity which shows that00:15:25
the unity of the church is not00:15:27
uniformity united in a single thought but00:15:30
diversity in communion and that00:15:33
is a very important example for00:15:34
today 'today because we00:15:36
also tend to be between an00:15:39
individualistic thought and a unique thought which is a00:15:42
little formatted or no we enter into a consensus00:15:45
which is regenerated gradually over the00:15:48
generations which pass in what00:15:51
language00:15:52
by the east the fathers where did he write so00:15:54
the pairs speak essentially I00:15:58
say it well essentially because there are00:15:59
many other languages Greek Latin and00:16:01
Syriac there is also obviously00:16:04
Armenian Ethiopian Georgian00:16:09
here are all these languages00:16:10
obviously but let's say that the00:16:12
central corpus in any case is these00:16:15
three ancient languages and they00:16:21
sometimes have names which surprise us a little00:16:24
so it is sometimes the name of their00:16:26
bishopric Irénée de Lyon for example is one00:16:32
of the best examples the name of their00:16:36
monastery vincent de lérins00:16:39
for example the name of their town00:16:43
gregoire de nazianze ephrem denise yb00:16:46
for example their name also reveals to us00:16:50
their origin dodou are they and their00:16:58
names also reveals to us their titles they00:17:01
sometimes have the nickname basil the great00:17:04
gregory the theologian why were they00:17:08
named like that what the church00:17:10
retained two or etc and they sometimes00:17:14
even have a treatment00:17:18
with sometimes a little exoticism for the00:17:20
modern reader so all these names00:17:26
can surprise us in what00:17:28
is important is to understand00:17:31
through these names what is it that00:17:33
gave us what they gave to the church00:17:35
it is not so much the names as00:17:36
such00:17:37
other than the fact that there are several00:17:39
gregories several basil and several00:17:43
which bear the same name so it is good00:17:44
to be able to distinguish them and00:17:46
to place them in history then I00:17:55
would like to have an asset who can deepen00:17:57
now the excuse is that our00:18:03
fathers are infallible00:18:06
then since they have searched the faith of00:18:12
the church since he begat us the faith00:18:15
of the church us and that we are on00:18:18
a soil on a base on a box we00:18:22
consider all their thoughts everything they00:18:24
could say as part00:18:27
of this base on and I said a00:18:31
moment ago that he could be wrong he00:18:32
could make some mistakes but00:18:37
then fortunately dancing under the name is00:18:43
not someone would he could be00:18:45
wrong so fortunately in that sense at00:18:47
least we can feel closer00:18:50
to them because we too are00:18:51
wrong so they are not all00:18:58
infallible in all circumstances and it happens that if00:19:04
a point of doctrine we think that it is00:19:07
defended is not validated and sealed by00:19:09
an ecumenical council, that is to say by00:19:11
the church, it is not necessarily00:19:15
obligatory to be received and this is the00:19:19
reason why we know that the00:19:20
fathers expressed private opinions00:19:25
that 'we call in00:19:26
theological language delays theo tastes00:19:30
but na00:19:32
that is to say questions of thinking about00:19:36
the Christian faith which have not been00:19:38
decided absolutely and definitively00:19:40
by the church so if we wanted to give00:19:44
an example could say for example00:19:49
anthropology is what00:19:52
the anthropology of the fathers and the00:19:56
tomic or dichotomous knitting that is to say is00:19:59
that man is made up of a soul of a00:20:01
soul and a spirit or is it what the soul00:20:03
is made up of a soul of a spirit00:20:05
of a soul of agreement of a soul and a00:20:08
spirit or only of a body and a00:20:09
hall then there is debate on this on00:20:14
the nomenclature even s 'there is obviously00:20:17
an agreement on the fact that the part of00:20:22
the spirit the nous is really in the00:20:26
highest part and the most in00:20:29
contact with god and that which00:20:32
receives the divine energies00:20:35
but the nomenclature is not always00:20:38
the even some talk about the body and mind00:20:40
some no body a mind or core00:20:43
to 100:20:44
so that's an example another00:20:46
example it's for example I'm going to give00:20:48
their milk to the pages it00:20:49
when he talks about what's happening after00:20:51
death he spoke of the tolls we are00:20:56
not obliged to here are two to be to be00:21:02
to adhere to absolutely 1.7 makes you think00:21:07
even if it is obviously it can00:21:10
be very profitable for each00:21:12
other one of between us therefore what00:21:14
is important is that not all the00:21:16
opinions of the fathers have the00:21:18
same authority and what is very00:21:20
important is that it is the church which has00:21:22
very well known how to distinguish the authority of00:21:25
dogma of all the00:21:27
personal opinions of the fathers and if there were00:21:32
certain opinions of the fathers who did00:21:34
not agree with the faith of00:21:35
the church this never affected their dignity00:21:41
as fathers and their place as fathers in00:21:43
the church then we can give another00:21:46
example for example Gregory of Nyssa he00:21:50
has he had a thought an opinion that00:21:55
we call the skin kata stage we00:21:56
will talk about it perhaps another time which00:21:59
concerns salvation is it in their turn at the00:22:03
end of history at the beginning with with00:22:09
a universal salvation for all hundred this00:22:14
thought this opinion was completely00:22:18
rejected at the council of the fifth00:22:20
counted single document because it00:22:21
was in contradiction with the00:22:23
conscience of the church and it is and this is00:22:26
not why Grégoire de00:22:28
Nysse suddenly fell from his00:22:30
rank as father Grégoire Dany this00:22:32
immense odd but the church which is a00:22:35
consensus keeps from Grégoire de Nysse00:22:41
all his thoughts but this opinion there00:22:44
was not selected that's good it's no00:22:47
more serious than that00:22:48
but it's important to know it and he00:22:53
remains a completely immense father so00:22:57
what is important is that00:22:59
the infallibility of fathers it n it's00:23:01
not personal it's the consensus of the00:23:04
countries which makes a00:23:06
theological position infallible and there I think00:23:09
that it must also be extreme00:23:10
teachers for us to the extent that00:23:16
in our modern church00:23:18
we see there we have difficulty in modernity00:23:22
to understand both universality and00:23:28
personal thought how00:23:32
the consensus of the church00:23:36
and the consensus and personal thought interact00:23:40
and so that is really very very00:23:43
important so I wanted to do a00:23:45
little reflection on that so if00:23:48
we wanted to look now that00:23:51
it was the world of pearls00:23:53
list so I will present to you00:23:54
several maps so the world that we00:24:02
know which goes as far as China,00:24:04
the Far East and as far as the United States00:24:08
the far West was not known00:24:10
to one of the fathers so it is important00:24:13
to know what was their image of the world00:24:18
of occupying it nor of the world in which they00:24:23
live and to send it relatively00:24:28
restricted we basically have europe00:24:34
with the maghreb africa00:24:41
antioch with everything that is syria00:24:45
said miller etc00:24:46
that is the world of the fathers so if we00:24:50
look at the map following parts00:24:54
so when at pol or at the fathers we00:24:58
have a certain number of of vocabulary00:25:02
whether it is the vocabulary of a city00:25:04
for example cesare and we are talking about00:25:07
asia it is not about00:25:09
today's asia of the asian world but it is about00:25:12
this hockey game which is00:25:23
exactly between Greece and what we00:25:26
would call today Lebanon Syria00:25:30
Israel00:25:31
here is Egypt in support we see that we have00:25:36
the trace of Lili Como so we00:25:43
are indeed the Byzantine empire around the00:25:46
sixth century in the in the00:25:51
most colorful parts and then the00:25:55
different conquests to try00:25:59
to advance dance dance was in these00:26:03
territories to try to win the00:26:06
territory then another card00:26:09
here which shows their stinging 1 here00:26:15
it is therefore approximately the same so00:26:18
the Italy the West was also part00:26:24
of the Byzantine Empire even if the00:26:25
Byzantine Empire was until the00:26:28
fifth century in two parts and00:26:31
then we have a separation of00:26:36
the East and the West00:26:38
and then here we now have00:26:42
the Byzantine Empire from the 6th century to the 15th00:26:45
century with Constantinople as00:26:52
capital and we can be happy to00:26:58
celebrate today the great Emperor00:27:04
Constantine who gave his name to this00:27:07
city and who crystallized all that's00:27:10
all. is this whole region of his00:27:13
empire which unfortunately shrank00:27:15
as the centuries went by and00:27:18
which disappeared is even worse in any00:27:20
case politically in the 15th century that's the game00:27:24
for today at the level of this00:27:27
introduction I'm not going to to say00:27:29
a lot more I wanted to leave00:27:30
a lot of time to change00:27:33
I will try to give you00:27:35
next time a bit of a genealogy if00:27:41
I can say about the fathers in any case from the first00:27:44
six seven eight centuries00:27:47
who are the very first fathers that00:27:50
's it up to 'until the Middle Ages00:27:54
a little later if we want for example00:28:00
to specify today if the fathers are00:28:03
directly the00:28:06
heirs of the apostles and well they00:28:13
received from the apostles is therefore the00:28:14
first father will come immediately00:28:16
after the apostles and therefore we among the00:28:18
first for example we often cite00:28:21
Clement of Rome since the letter00:28:26
that he wrote to the Christians of Rome dates00:28:29
from practically the same period as00:28:32
the gospel of John Ignatius of Antioch00:28:38
wrote just at the beginning of the second century00:28:40
and we clearly feel that they were born from the00:28:44
heirs of the apostles what for00:28:47
example the letter and Clement it00:28:49
could have been part of certain00:28:51
codices of the new testament for a time00:28:53
until we is decided that it00:28:56
was outside the new testament00:28:57
since we considered as fathers of00:28:59
the church and not as a00:29:01
revelation like the new testament00:29:04
so these lines wait you dare for00:29:06
example he wrote before the00:29:09
second letter of stone was written00:29:10
therefore we feel a strong crossover00:29:12
between the thought of the fathers and then the00:29:15
writings of the new testament and it00:29:18
is fortunate that this is so it00:29:20
shows a kind of continuity and00:29:22
interactions between his peers,00:29:26
direct heirs of the apostles and of the00:29:28
evangelists and and the text itself of00:29:34
the revelation that we call the00:29:36
new testament so I'm00:29:38
not going to say more I hope that I00:29:42
have made myself understood well00:29:43
and then I'll let you react to me no00:29:52
thank you saint brieuc for this00:29:54
introduction just I want to ask you00:29:58
to launch last one last one on page 200:30:05
of slideshows and it is the time for the00:30:09
questions so for those who want to00:30:12
express themselves ask the question towards the00:30:14
debates so welcome you can00:30:16
activate your to yours microphones and took the opportunity00:30:21
to ask questions so thank you a00:30:23
question in the languages used by00:30:25
peers in the study of the bible00:30:27
old testament00:30:29
was there Hebrew and or haram is in00:30:34
very good question00:30:38
then there is little father who read00:30:44
Hebrew really some father read00:30:50
Hebrew in particular Theodore is from Sirte00:30:54
is a great Hebraist but they did00:31:00
not write in Hebrew00:31:01
they wrote in Greek should of Sierra00:31:05
which in Greek00:31:06
so there is no writing of homily00:31:09
or treat in Hebrew nor in Aramaic00:31:13
but what is very interesting is00:31:15
that there are how to say there are00:31:20
reflections and00:31:22
biblical interpretations you know that the fathers00:31:24
essentially have excuse me the term00:31:27
eat of the bible and restore the bible00:31:30
to the way they understood it in the00:31:32
light of the new testament00:31:33
they really ate the bible a bit00:31:36
like the prophet jeremiah like god00:31:38
gives the book to eat to the prophet00:31:39
jeremiah they digested it so much00:31:42
that they gave back the Bible the00:31:46
biblical interpretations and and therefore they00:31:53
relied on including the00:31:55
Greek pairs including someone like00:31:57
Chrysostom like Basil the Great00:31:59
we can talk about it again including the00:32:03
most Greek pairs who00:32:04
very probably did not know not00:32:06
really Hebrew they relied00:32:10
on reflections in relation to00:32:14
Hebrew on the Hebrew Bible then00:32:18
Jerome knew Hebrew well00:32:19
since he made translations00:32:22
origen knew Hebrew well00:32:24
since he made the examples and that he00:32:27
therefore wrote the column of the Bible of the00:32:30
different Greek Bibles and the Hebrew Bible00:32:36
but what is important is00:32:38
that they understood that there was00:32:42
something to be heard from the Bible00:32:44
Hebrew compared to the Bible of the00:32:46
70 or 70 with the other versions00:32:49
as you wish, that's the first thing that00:32:51
must be kept in mind00:32:54
and the second thing is that we00:32:55
have Syrian pairs,00:32:58
Syriac pairs speak a language then depending on the00:33:02
region where they live00:33:03
we speak of Eastern Cyriac and00:33:06
Western Cyriac00:33:07
but this language is sometimes so00:33:10
close to Aramaic in any case to00:33:14
Western Ramée when we could00:33:16
almost say that he speaks00:33:18
Aramaic they have written in Syria their00:33:22
text was Syriac client so00:33:26
what must be remembered is that and that00:33:27
this Syriac language and a language00:33:31
which is extremely close to Hebrew00:33:33
whose roots of words and whose00:33:36
grammatical and syntactic structure and00:33:39
is very, very close to Hebrew and so00:33:41
we spoke Father Syriac, a whole00:33:45
very oriental and orientalizing world that00:33:47
opens up to us and that's why00:33:49
it's important to really try to00:33:52
learn from the fathers of the three languages00:33:54
because you know that each language00:33:56
and we know it well among ourselves00:33:58
since we come from00:34:00
different countries and we have00:34:04
several languages00:34:05
each of us and to our credit and00:34:10
therefore we know that language forms00:34:11
thought and therefore read a Greek father or reading00:34:16
a Latin father gives you a Syriac father it's not00:34:18
quite the same and reading the three00:34:20
not only gives the consensus00:34:22
how it is that far from the00:34:26
Greek and Latin world the Syriacs manage to00:34:30
be a consensus with the others the00:34:33
other fathers while we are not in00:34:35
a philosophical thought for example we are00:34:37
not quite in the it is a00:34:39
much more symbolic thought much00:34:41
more pictorial and yet they are indeed00:34:44
in the consensus is to to say it is indeed00:34:45
fathers and we are in the same00:34:47
faith and therefore how all that interacts00:34:50
so that is really obviously very00:34:51
very interesting if I answered00:34:54
the question completely but in any case what00:34:58
is good for us is that there is00:34:59
a lot of translation now because we00:35:01
cannot know all these00:35:02
languages I mean that's a lot and then you00:35:04
have to know it well to try to00:35:06
enter the minds of the losers00:35:07
fortunately there are some who have translated00:35:09
correctly for us and the large00:35:12
collection of Christian sources is00:35:13
very precious and therefore we can the00:35:17
books in this collection it is00:35:19
acquired written in Greek in Latin or00:35:21
Syriac it persuades you advise to00:35:28
read 100:35:30
it is necessary to read obviously ephrem which is00:35:33
the great cantor the great charles on the00:35:37
harp of the spirit ephrem and a very00:35:40
great one then it is not easy00:35:42
it is not always easy for those00:35:45
who have a poetic spirit and who have00:35:49
easy access to symbols it will be00:35:52
simple for those who have a00:35:54
more00:35:58
philosophical or rational intelligence or thinking it00:36:00
will perhaps be a little more difficult00:36:01
but really ephrem knows we can't00:36:06
not read ephrem what's more it's fresh00:36:08
from Milan he has written a lot of liturgical poems00:36:11
there are a lot of dim ne liturgical and00:36:15
there is something very chanted in00:36:17
his in his writing so we remember00:36:19
a lot of things and he wrote an00:36:23
absolutely extraordinary poetry it's00:36:27
magical what so00:36:29
ephrem obviously00:36:30
and I would also recommend a lot to00:36:33
frat to frat the Syrian so it is also00:36:36
translated in sources that she therefore00:36:37
these two are translated in the00:36:38
Christian sources and in the frat then what is00:36:41
extraordinary about footprint also00:36:42
is that we feel to what extent00:36:46
elsewhere in frémeaux May 6 among the00:36:48
fremms it's a little different I afraa00:36:50
thinking to what extent he speaks to a00:36:53
community which no longer knows very well what00:36:57
the difference between00:36:58
Jews and Christians is or which does not know00:37:00
very well and therefore its community is on the00:37:05
margins of the empire of the00:37:07
Byzantine Empire00:37:08
we are with the brakes also moreover00:37:10
we are in the Sassanid empire we are00:37:13
really on the margins so the time that00:37:15
for example the ecumenical councils00:37:17
arrives as far as its00:37:19
somewhat distant territories Christian theological thought00:37:25
develops and the00:37:28
concern of the sentence is00:37:29
really there is a community they do00:37:31
n't know what is the difference00:37:32
between Jews and Christians in the 4th century we00:37:35
are in the 4th century00:37:36
so it shows it shows to what extent00:37:39
the network of Judaism is still00:37:44
very present and very important at this00:37:46
period for the Syriac pairs and00:37:48
how little by little we are forging00:37:50
the spirit and the Christian church00:37:52
from this base which is Judaism00:37:56
the first testament and everything and everything00:37:59
all the prescriptions that follow that00:38:03
the Jews follow and therefore they explain00:38:05
dancing dancing 20 exhibitions00:38:09
these vases on display he explains to his00:38:13
community00:38:15
what it is to be Christian00:38:17
how one stands out as we are00:38:19
distinguished from others who is Christ00:38:22
and how the mount the name of Christian00:38:25
that we carry to transform doubt00:38:28
this all this heritage began to00:38:33
transform in each one this heritage that is00:38:36
but it is the way in which he says00:38:38
it it is very subtle it is very fine and I00:38:41
really there are00:38:42
two works of Christian sources00:38:43
on these wines exposed that they are00:38:46
major the fronts frankly do not hesitate00:38:49
to read them they are not difficult00:38:50
it is not difficult00:38:51
only it is very very biblical, that is00:38:53
to say that if we do not know the00:38:55
Bible well, we risk being lost, of which we00:38:56
must know the Bible well and,00:38:58
moreover, I urge you, along with the fathers,00:39:01
to always have your Bible next to00:39:03
you and to refer you because there are00:39:05
always allusions to such a00:39:07
character at such and such an event at such and such a00:39:12
period00:39:13
and so you have to know it well,00:39:14
it's a bit like the canon of00:39:18
Saint Andrew of Crete00:39:19
we never stop to tell us about a00:39:21
certain number of characters but00:39:23
what we know them and what we are going to see00:39:25
and do we understand what he says00:39:27
to expect from Crete00:39:29
what does he mean in this dark00:39:32
canoe in us and giving us00:39:34
the example of these characters if we do00:39:36
not know the context in which the00:39:39
Bible speaks of its characters so therefore00:39:40
it is very important to good and therefore we00:39:43
must take the time to read the fathers00:39:45
is really with the Bible on the side and00:39:46
trying to find all the00:39:49
allusions so what is good in the00:39:52
Christian sources is that there are the00:39:54
references so we can go look at00:39:56
the references take the time and there00:39:58
we are in a treasure hunt is00:39:59
absolutely exciting00:40:00
exciting ok this really makes you want00:40:09
to read them00:40:10
a thank you from patrice and lydie00:40:14
so while waiting for the other questions00:40:17
we have a few more minutes perhaps00:40:20
I will allow myself to ask you00:40:23
this question as a command in the00:40:25
introduction to the catechesis00:40:28
can you say a few words on00:40:30
holiness among the fathers what is it00:40:31
there without doubt being healthy to them00:40:35
in the Christian era with Christ00:40:38
it what is for fathers so yes00:40:40
something that I have not developed00:40:41
is that most of the fathers they00:40:44
gave their lives they really gave00:40:47
their said and they gave their lives for00:40:52
the word of God for Christ for00:40:55
the church 10 for the defense of the faith you know00:40:59
that the church has been crossed by a00:41:02
considerable number of heresies especially00:41:03
in the early days but00:41:05
unfortunately it continues00:41:06
until today00:41:07
and they are they have00:41:12
immolated themselves one could say for the00:41:14
defense of the faith of the church00:41:15
so that is that it is capital and I00:41:17
think that the holiness of two of our00:41:20
fathers also rests on it neither scene00:41:22
it is not for nothing that we let us celebrate00:41:23
every day a multitude of saints and00:41:26
holy martyrs because they gave00:41:29
their lives so even if some are00:41:30
not expressly martyred as00:41:33
such I think for example of John00:41:35
Chrysostom who died in exile but the00:41:38
way in which he was treated in exile he was00:41:41
rather badly treated he died he00:41:43
suffered so much physically that he00:41:45
died or or for example max maxime the00:41:49
confessor whose hand and tongue were cut off00:41:52
and then other fathers who downright00:41:55
were martyrs they died mark00:41:59
so I think that there it was good it is00:42:02
really the holiness of a gift of one's00:42:04
total life where nothing is more important than00:42:07
Christ the church and the defense of the00:42:10
faith that it's important00:42:12
and that's why they are really00:42:13
examples for us. We00:42:15
are able to understand to what00:42:20
extent these giants not only in00:42:21
their thoughts00:42:22
but in their lives in their way of00:42:24
live they did not have they00:42:29
contributed to a radicality of the gospel00:42:33
in their life and they showed the00:42:37
radicality of the Vosges and I think that00:42:38
this holiness is really this00:42:39
radicality up to the gift of one's life and00:42:43
some of them obviously its00:42:46
monks00:42:47
so I haven't talked about it as00:42:48
much but heck we also put ourselves00:42:51
in the series of Persians that00:42:53
we what we call the fathers at 700:42:56
the losses at 7 are part of our fathers00:42:59
that this either antoine legrand it is to00:43:02
lose them and apophthegm they are for00:43:06
us nourishes killer spirit00:43:07
immense and indicates to us the path of life00:43:12
of faith the path of ascetic life the00:43:17
way of surpassing our patients of00:43:21
correcting our patients they give us00:43:22
a true very path very important and the00:43:25
ascetic life is very important among00:43:27
the fathers Chrysostom he spent00:43:28
several years in a cave where near00:43:30
an elder and then only00:43:33
Grégoire de Nazianze it is nivet00:43:37
always fleeing because they do00:43:39
not sail him states that one thing was00:43:41
solitude he had a community for00:43:43
a time which after he returned to the00:43:44
desert and then other fathers00:43:47
like origen they founded zeros00:43:51
founded or took over school00:43:54
of school of tea one could say of00:43:56
theology and and they really gave00:44:01
their lives nothing they did that what00:44:02
they had they did nothing00:44:04
else so he was so focused on00:44:06
felt called to defend the faith00:44:10
to give food to the Christians around00:44:14
them the word of God00:44:16
the true doctrine the sacraments of00:44:18
the church00:44:19
finally stop it is fundamental they00:44:22
spent hours and hours preaching00:44:23
and teaching to spend00:44:26
all their energy only for00:44:29
their faithful and for the church00:44:32
no I think it is fundamental but00:44:34
perhaps through Alexis you can add00:44:36
something else perhaps they00:44:38
wanted to say something else on the00:44:40
holiness of the fathers giving his oars00:44:48
if I have the opportunity other occasions00:44:51
in and especially we in the old testament00:44:54
so we go well just like type you00:44:59
know very very well the etymology of the00:45:00
words and it is to see that this00:45:02
difference between holiness of the old00:45:04
testament health again testament00:45:06
let's say that on the left00:45:08
in Gatineau is there a new00:45:11
perspective of health in the new00:45:13
testament00:45:14
at this time of the year in Christ00:45:20
I think that the holiness of the Christian is00:45:24
grafted onto the tnt Christ00:45:27
his head is divine and on the fact that00:45:31
we have convinced ourselves that it is00:45:35
part of our Orthodox faith that00:45:38
we are, thanks to00:45:41
the incarnation of Christ, we are00:45:42
able to receive00:45:44
divine energies directly and that is00:45:47
why holiness the holiness of the00:45:52
new testament is different so00:45:54
at the level of terms what is very00:45:57
interesting at the level of terms is00:45:58
that we have two terms in Greek and00:46:00
we only have one term of lawyers00:46:03
only term in Hebrew we have beautiful we00:46:06
only have kadosh or lacquered00:46:07
shower and in Greek we have the eye and00:46:11
ross and then the haggis rises and we00:46:23
sometimes tend to translate a bios by00:46:27
saint and heroes by sacred part so we00:46:35
can ask ourselves the question of a00:46:41
difference between the two there is00:46:43
certainly one I have not studied more00:46:45
than that the difference of the00:46:49
Greek terms but in any case what00:46:54
I have heard on the side of the Hebraists00:46:57
is that if it does not there is only one word to00:47:00
say holiness00:47:01
kadosh katusha it is because there is an00:47:04
absolute separation between the00:47:07
absolute saint who is god and and humans00:47:11
besides humans are not the00:47:12
simple ones very rarely finally really00:47:16
stopped quite exceptional and00:47:17
it's not always well seen in the00:47:19
Jewish tradition00:47:20
they are rather called sadiki ms sadik00:47:23
say the righteous the big names but00:47:26
they are not called gift I think00:47:27
that's that doesn't happen so that00:47:32
shows you clearly that this total separation00:47:34
between divine health is there and the00:47:38
greatness of man where man is00:47:40
called a just born sadist is00:47:45
different from human holiness which00:47:48
is which is made possible in the00:47:49
new testament00:47:50
thanks to the incarnation and by the00:47:53
reception of divine energies there which00:47:59
we welcome thanks to the sacraments00:48:02
thanks to the opinion of the mottos00:48:06
so now00:48:07
some say that the word sacred is a00:48:10
word which comes from paganism00:48:12
so that is also very interesting is00:48:16
what it is a word which comes from00:48:17
paganism and which the Christian tradition00:48:19
has integrated into its own thinking because00:48:26
Christians come from paganism and00:48:28
therefore we obviously have d d00:48:32
d elements of paganism which we have00:48:35
integrated which we have transformed and00:48:39
which is the reason why there is00:48:41
no sacredness in the Jewish tradition which has00:48:44
always kept itself far00:48:49
from paganism, always wanting to00:48:52
really put a great distance while00:48:54
our Christian tradition00:48:56
is at the same time heir of Judaism and00:49:00
therefore of this sort of absolute tea you00:49:02
can say and Hellenism whose00:49:06
foundation is at the origin of the pagans00:49:07
even if it is a paganism of course00:49:10
was transformed reformulated00:49:13
whose message was understood explained00:49:19
in a religious language but none the less00:49:23
the words the words are those of paganism00:49:27
so perhaps we can we can see it00:49:29
like that also the question of the basis of00:49:34
Cécile and François who are the00:49:36
current fathers has nothing there a lot and we have00:49:39
a lot a lot a lot00:49:42
so I finally have could we have to00:49:46
know if we are in a consensus there we00:49:47
should all get together to know00:49:49
if we all agree but a dimitri00:49:51
stany praised vladimir lossky a paul00:49:54
evdokimov we lived clement are00:49:57
fathers it's obvious for us but00:50:01
also we lose a set 1-6 1-600:50:04
customs cinsault frau nor a stadium is00:50:07
nice here to the sapeurs fihri rise all00:50:12
and all these men are also peers00:50:14
for its it is obvious00:50:16
besides we really like reading them00:50:18
and we we read them more willingly than00:50:20
our fathers the elder is then why00:50:23
and that is very interesting why00:50:24
we read them more willingly first00:50:27
because we feel them close to the fact00:50:28
that they are our contemporaries or almost00:50:31
contemporaries and that the feeling close00:50:33
we have the impression that their language and00:50:35
more and more immediately accessible00:50:37
to us so that's true and what's more00:50:42
they chew us they chew us the losses of00:50:45
elders that they have totally integrated00:50:48
all the life of the church since the00:50:50
first centuries and all the fathers whether00:50:52
it be the fathers in the doctrine those00:50:56
of the councils those who formulated the00:50:58
doctrine and where the characters 700:51:03
a fascinating example for example is00:51:06
Ticino sofronis sofroniou there he00:51:09
gave for the contemporary world a an00:51:13
awareness of the person of ipo stasis00:51:15
an absolutely exceptional formulation00:51:18
of liposthey which is very very useful00:51:20
to the contemporary world but which00:51:21
obviously applies to all00:51:24
the theology of the pair00:51:26
which had already formulated the losers00:51:30
of its own but it it brings to00:51:33
incandescence an00:51:35
absolutely major theological summit and at the same time it is00:51:38
really a terrace is therefore its sauce00:51:40
bakery really is however without him00:51:42
moreover like many of our to00:51:44
lose us former saint basil is also00:51:46
very a75 saint jean that the other dom00:51:49
was also a big h is good so00:51:54
read the contemporary fathers also of00:51:56
course of course but you will see00:51:58
that we will find the same language00:52:00
as that of the Persians although the00:52:03
formulation is no longer easy and more00:52:05
accessible in contemporary language00:52:12
and on the feminine side is there something00:52:15
ah well yes of course on the part of Michel00:52:19
Faure I think the question yes of course00:52:23
it's a very good question00:52:29
the answer the reference00:52:31
I'm talking about could give a lot of00:52:33
them including women a few months ago I00:52:43
had the opportunity to stay in Greece and00:52:48
there and I was presented with the edition of00:52:54
five volumes with the new breasts it00:52:59
's just ogress it's the 5 who are00:53:02
colonized who are not as immune00:53:04
the people who gave life for00:53:06
the church in the sense that Sandrine00:53:08
has to demonstrate to us and one there well there are00:53:14
as many women as men00:53:16
I was surprised and very very surprised00:53:18
very positively that let's say there is more00:53:22
and more opening towards 700 very00:53:24
weak 1 feminine the righteous women who00:53:29
are healthy00:53:31
overview and who are presented as00:53:35
examples of Christian life especially00:53:38
like that in00:53:40
traditional countries where precisely the toque00:53:46
male culture dominated good so it is00:53:52
progressing but it is true that there is still00:53:54
a lot of still the road is long00:53:58
for the to achieve it like that with00:54:02
the without loss in succession we can cite00:54:04
dozens with two descents sea00:54:07
to sète a little more complicated but00:54:11
a nuisance even for female00:54:13
theologians in name but here in France in00:54:17
any case I immediately think of00:54:18
two women immediately it is00:54:20
obviously Sainte Marie de Paris 100:54:22
Sainte-Marie Scop Center which is a00:54:24
very very great figure and she who00:54:28
would be more of a saint people tell me of00:54:32
the Christian people of the Christian and00:54:35
simple people who helped the poor who00:54:38
gave his life and his heart for the00:54:40
poorest when the smallest feathers00:54:41
by this center of renewal and00:54:46
then I also think of obviously00:54:48
Elisabeth Bercy Gel so he did not00:54:52
leave a lot of cries but but who00:54:56
was still a very great figure00:54:58
in transmitting the thoughts of the father the00:55:01
vigils and is a great figure of00:55:04
d interpreters of the Old Testament,00:55:06
finally of the Bible in general Old and00:55:08
New Testament and I think that we00:55:11
would benefit from rereading what she00:55:14
wrote really it is a00:55:18
completely interesting thought sometimes00:55:22
original but would put on very sure00:55:26
very theological finally she is a great00:55:28
theologian it is very big00:55:29
news for me good for the for00:55:34
contemporary women00:55:35
then you know that among the mothers of the00:55:36
desert there had drunk several glasses00:55:38
of deserts and are not many cited00:55:39
but there were some00:55:40
who were five women too and then00:55:44
in the history of the church there are many00:55:45
saint tin ok thank you daniel there is00:55:53
someone who asks anne marhic00:55:56
asks mother gabriella mother gabrielle00:55:59
yes absolutely absolutely but look00:56:02
she is a very big voice there for00:56:03
me it is the mayor of the church of the six00:56:04
nations of course the problem is that00:56:06
these women did not write much and00:56:08
therefore their memory remained their00:56:12
holiness their memory their their baggage00:56:15
their theological thought was transmitted at00:56:18
the time then to those who knew it00:56:19
then after that it is a risk of being00:56:22
lost since the writings you00:56:24
continue or extend for00:56:26
centuries that is when it there are no cries00:56:27
we are we know prolongs much more00:56:29
difficult still fortunately to00:56:30
mayor gabriel for women as for the camp00:56:32
nou we have a book we expect from her the00:56:36
cèze of love so fortunately we00:56:39
have this book because otherwise well I00:56:40
will not know00:56:41
she is a very very tall and very00:56:45
interesting because she traveled a lot00:56:46
she had among her best friends a00:56:50
Hindu and an Israeli finally it's00:56:53
incredible she is very modern a00:56:56
very modern woman and at the same time good00:57:00
implanted in her teeth her00:57:02
orthodox Christian faith and she very much00:57:05
attracted two disciples there a lot of00:57:07
mud which gave around her a lot00:57:09
a lot of her to treat people00:57:11
it was someone from Gabrielle yes we00:57:15
are looking for Sandrine we have exceeded an hour00:57:17
ago the last question but I think we00:57:19
will have given the answer next00:57:22
time a next meeting with you00:57:25
so the nature can be you can just00:57:28
note so as not to have forgotten the nature or00:57:31
conformation of women's writings is00:57:34
it is particular or does it resemble00:57:36
that of men00:57:37
I think that this is a very00:57:40
important, interesting and deep question which00:57:42
perhaps really requires attention00:57:45
so that we will have a few seconds to00:57:48
think carefully about this question00:57:51
and you will be able to give the answer We will00:57:54
meet again in a week on00:57:57
Thursday May 27, return of the Old00:58:01
Testament and we will try to see00:58:05
what name of God we can encounter00:58:07
in the Old Testament00:58:09
how we call God and in Kehl what00:58:13
face is presented some faces00:58:17
diva is presented in the old00:58:20
testament to also perhaps deepen00:58:24
the fathers of the church of which I00:58:28
would just like to remind you that also00:58:31
within vicaria we organize the00:58:35
presentations of the fathers with jean-marie00:58:38
gourvil our fathers in the faith00:58:40
so these are 15 minute broadcasts00:58:43
there is a first broadcast which worries00:58:47
and prepared and we are preparing a00:58:48
second second broadcast which will00:58:51
appear at the end of May00:58:54
so you can a little bit watched00:58:56
recordings on YouTube and also00:58:58
find interventions by00:59:02
Jean Marie Gourvil who goes in the same00:59:04
direction as Sandrine today with this00:59:07
magnificent presentation of her father so00:59:09
thank you very much Sandrine thank you very much to00:59:11
everyone who gave us a little bit of everything00:59:14
who was among us today and we00:59:17
can end our catechesis with00:59:19
prayer and if you can reread the prayers00:59:22
Sandrine please00:59:47
the dream00:59:48
yes I have to go look for the00:59:52
text I don't have in front of me00:59:54
shine is what new Jerusalem says00:59:56
yes because the glory of the Lord has risen01:00:04
on you it is exultation sion and be in01:00:07
joy and you mother of God very01:00:09
pure rejoice your son is resurrected01:00:12
thank you very much for certain communitiesDescription:
Cycle de catéchèse pour adultes Les Pères de l'Église et leurs préoccupations pastorales par Sandrine Caneri — 20 mai 2021
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