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Video tags
Subtitles
Russian
00:00:15
How dare you..00:00:18
Two.. Four!00:00:19
Why is he ruling my country?00:00:21
Some things never get cancelled.00:00:23
Why does he decide how we live?00:00:25
And gets cut with an axe.00:00:27
An enemy and a traitor. Russia doesn't need him.00:00:31
Wait. I've got an ace in the hole.00:00:32
What are you doing in the next five hours?00:00:37
Aviasales - cheap airplane tickets platform00:00:43
Maria..While Alexey Navalny is in prison it feels like you're the face of Anti-Corruption Foundation now.00:00:51
[Anti-Corruption Foundation is considered extremist in Russia and is banned]00:00:52
You do the investigations, you're on the screen, you meet Hillary Clinton..00:00:57
You do lots of stuff.00:00:59
There isn't much information about you still.00:01:02
We'd like to talk about you and the object of your research: corruption.00:01:10
We've decided to do this interview in London.
This city is important for you and it is also one of the main cities of Russian corruption.00:01:19
Am I right?00:01:21
You're right.00:01:22
[Maria Pevchikh
35 years old
An investigator
Alexey Navalny's ally
Moscow, London]00:01:39
This is one of the biggest park in the city.00:01:42
It is called Hampstead Heath. We're now in the northern part of the park.00:01:46
We're in North London and there are many expensive houses here.00:01:50
Yes. This is like a local Rublevka..It's closer to the city center.00:01:58
This place is a citadel of Russian corruption. It's funny that a few of our heroes live here.00:02:08
If we look across this hill we'd see Friedman's house, Usmanov's house, and the gem of this park..Witanhurst mansion owned by Andrey Guryev.00:02:27
I guess, some of the viewers don't know this oligarch.
He's bought the second biggest mansion in the UK.00:02:37
The only mansion bigger than this one in the Buckingham Palace.00:02:43
This is a famous view.00:02:45
This house was in Notting Hill.00:02:46
It was. This house is called Kenwood House.
They can't make a romantic comedy about London without shooting this building..00:02:55
or the view from the Parliament Hill. This is a classic landscape.00:03:02
Notting Hill is a movie where a friend of your starred in..00:03:05
I would only dream of him being a friend of mine.00:03:09
I guess, you're talking about Hugh Grant.00:03:12
I am.00:03:13
He's a big fan of Navalny movie.00:03:20
He's a political activist and he did a lot to show this documentary in London and supported it in BAFTA and the Academy awards.00:03:36
How did you meet him? You saw that he followed you on Twitter..00:03:40
I wish this story was more romantic..00:03:46
I saw that he was following me on Twitter..00:03:49
I went running around my flat for ten minutes. I sent the screenshots to my mom and my grandmother.00:03:55
Then I saw that he was also following Christo Grozev and Navalny..00:04:04
I realized that he liked the movie.00:04:06
He's really into politics..00:04:11
Were you upset that he also followed Navalny and Grozev?00:04:13
I can live with it.00:04:15
He might unfollow them later.00:04:17
So I thought: why not? We were premiering the movie in London in early May.00:04:26
I texted him. Unless he followed me accidentally, he would reply..00:04:35
I texted:"Come to a cinema in Soho on May 6, where we would be premiering Navalny documentary. There would be a Q&A session"00:04:43
I texted him and then I forgot about it.00:04:48
A couple of weeks later I come to the premiere and wait for my friends outside the cinema.00:04:54
And then someone says "Maria.."
This was Hugh Grant.00:05:00
I didn't think he would come. He came there with his wife.00:05:07
He was super nice to me. He's been supporting us since.00:05:13
You've been traveling around the world supporting Navalny documentary that you did with HBO.00:05:22
Why are you doing this?00:05:23
What's the goal?00:05:25
My goal is to make Navalny a household name. This is why we named this movie this way.00:05:37
I want his name to stay in the media.
I want people to talk about the poisoning, our investigation, and what is happening to him now.00:05:53
I'm sure that we're doing him a big favor now. We're probably saving his life.00:06:05
Considering the circumstances in his prison..00:06:11
Do you still think that making this public would help anyone?00:06:14
Wasn't this cancelled in 2022?00:06:17
It wasn't. Some things never get cancelled.00:06:20
Even for an irrational psychopath Putin is now..00:06:27
He still weighs all pros and cons.00:06:31
Should he assault Navalny one more time or not?00:06:35
The last time ended up embarrassingly.00:06:40
The whole world saw that Russian secret services were ridiculous.00:06:52
Everyone heard Kudryavtsev. Everyone laughed at this phone call that lasted for forty seven minutes.00:07:00
Kudryavtsev had no idea he was talking to Navalny.00:07:04
Everyone laughed at Putin during his press-conferences.00:07:07
He would make silly excuses. If he thinks of another attempt..00:07:17
We're doing our best to make this too costly for him.00:07:23
He shouldn't do it.00:07:24
About fifteen minutes of the movie were shot on iPhone.00:07:29
I guess, this was your iPhone.00:07:31
Yulia Navalnaya coming to the hospital in Omsk..00:07:35
You filmed her.00:07:37
I was filming and Kira Yarmysh was filming, too.00:07:41
I collected all the videos and sent them to the director.00:07:44
Did you know you were making a big documentary when you were filming in Omsk and Berlin?00:07:53
When I watched it I felt like you knew what you were filming.00:07:59
In Omsk?00:08:00
Yes.00:08:01
Yura..The last thing I would think about when we were in Omsk was this movie..00:08:15
I would never think about American producers..00:08:19
The Omsk events are by a big margin the scariest events in my life.00:08:29
I had no idea we were filming a movie. I was filming everything to shoot the faces that we saw there.00:08:42
I needed to identify everyone in the hospital hall. Everyone who tried to get rid of us.00:08:47
Everyone who didn't let Yulia Navalny enter the emergency room.00:08:52
Everyone who was sitting in the head doctor's office.00:08:57
Some FSB employees were sitting in his chair.00:09:02
I needed to record everything to investigate who poisoned Navalny and who tried to kill him in the hospital.00:09:21
I made these videos in Omsk for absolutely another reason.00:09:27
If I was going to make a movie I would be holding my iPhone horizontally..00:09:33
[Ads about where the Internet was born]00:09:45
We're in Switzerland.00:09:47
Meyrin city. Geneva and the lake is right there.00:09:53
And this is the European Organization of Nuclear Research.00:09:57
Also known as CERN. The Large Hadron Collider is somewhere underground.00:10:02
We're here not because of LHC. The first web-page was made here in the early 1990's.00:10:09
This web-site was made by a British developer Tim Berners-Lee.00:10:12
He worked in CERN and started the World Wide Web project.00:10:17
He made an intranet for the scientists to make information more accessible and convenient.00:10:24
Eventually he made the first web-site and started the era of the Internet.00:10:31
This web-site is still working.00:10:34
We remembered about the first web-site because this video is sponsored by Surfshark.00:10:42
With the help of Surfshark you can open any web-sites that were banned due to censorship.00:10:47
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Click at the link in the description and download Surfshark. Enjoy the unlimited Internet.00:11:30
[Back to London]00:11:33
Were you involved in editing?00:11:35
Of course, I wasn't.00:11:36
The director edited everything himself.00:11:42
He did. What if he also talked to some of Navalny's opponents and asked them about the Russian March?00:11:52
Would you be able to cut this part out?00:11:58
I wouldn't.00:12:00
This was the deal. It made the experiment fair. We could only control what we said.00:12:10
When they were filming us.00:12:14
We could only control when they could film us.00:12:18
The rest was done by the director.00:12:21
This movie came out in early 2022.00:12:23
In January.00:12:24
Some people watched the leaked version.. You were furious about it.00:12:31
You tweeted about it.00:12:34
Why?00:12:36
I wasn't furious. I only replied to someone.00:12:39
This tweet was everywhere..00:12:41
It did..But I only tweeted about this once.00:12:48
Why?00:12:50
I was wrong.00:12:51
I support the authors. I never watch illegal content.
However, you can't watch Navalny from Russia now.00:12:57
This is why I was wrong.00:12:58
I'm not ashamed to say I was wrong.00:13:03
Mikhail Friedman lives here, too.00:13:05
He does. They were searching this house recently.00:13:09
This is not confirmed officially.00:13:10
I did this investigation on Twitter.00:13:17
Maria found the house plan. Where did you get it from?00:13:19
When the police published the official release about the searching in a wealthy Russian's house..00:13:30
They mentioned his age and some other details..00:13:39
They also published one picture. You could see the authorities in a hall..00:13:53
I saw a fireplace and a picture in the back.00:14:02
This room looked like a hall.00:14:04
Friedman matched the age from the release..I knew I could find the plan of his house online..00:14:13
I can tell you how to find it.00:14:16
I decided to find this hall..I had a couple of hooks.00:14:27
The fireplace, the door, and the stairs.00:14:33
I found the plan of his house..00:14:35
I looked at the first floor..You usually start with the first floor..00:14:40
One room fit this picture pretty well. I concluded that the picture was made in his house.00:14:52
Where can you find the plan of any house?00:14:54
You can find these at the local web-site.00:14:57
Depending on the area of the house.00:15:00
This area..I guess, it is called Borough..00:15:09
It is called Camden. You go to the Camden web-site and enter the address.00:15:17
You can find all the reconstruction requests there.00:15:21
This is public information.00:15:26
If you ever had some maintenance at home..You had new windows or new doors..00:15:32
You changed the pavement or cut a tree..00:15:35
You had to make official requests to get a permission.00:15:39
This is all public information.00:15:42
Friedman built this house from scratch. The original building was almost destroyed.00:15:52
There are thousands of documents about this house. And of course, there is a plan.00:15:57
It is so detailed you can find the information about the tiles in the rooms.00:16:04
Everything is transparent here.00:16:07
The big brother is in your bedroom..00:16:11
You don't have to rebuild anything.00:16:12
Look at the liberal Europe! There is no freedom here!00:16:18
What is happening to Navalny right now?00:16:19
He's held at SHIZO all the time.00:16:22
What does this mean for you?00:16:23
This is a torture. They are bullying him.00:16:29
The prison administration is torturing him on purpose.00:16:36
The president's office and the president are also involved.00:16:40
They want to make Navalny's life unbearable.00:16:43
This isn't just a SHIZO cell.00:16:49
Now they torturing him there.00:16:58
He's sitting there with another man. This person is used as a bacteriological weapon.00:17:07
It sounds weird but it's true.00:17:08
This person used to be homeless..He's not quite good at having shower.00:17:17
They are held in a tiny room.00:17:21
They share a toilet there. Their cell is smaller than this carpet.00:17:32
It's 3x2.5 meters wide.00:17:35
Living with a person who doesn't shower isn't healthy for you.00:17:48
As far as I know, Navalny convinced him to have showers.00:17:54
Now they put this poor guy in a hospital every couple of days.00:18:02
He spends a few days next to sick people. They have tuberculosis, coronavirus..All the diseases..00:18:17
Then this guy returns to Navalny.. And then they take him to the hospital again..00:18:23
He's healthy, though.00:18:26
Navalny fell sick recently. He's having a fever now.00:18:32
Nobody's healing him. They don't take him to a doctor.00:18:41
In a cell in front of him there is a mentally ill prisoner.00:18:48
He's been there for a while now.00:18:49
Every night he screams, he barks, he howls..00:18:59
He's mentally ill.00:19:05
He cannot be held in SHIZO.00:19:07
Let me give you an overview. Navalny is sick, his cellmate is dirty, his neighbor is barking the whole night.00:19:18
Does this make you a better person?00:19:24
I don't think so. I think this is crazy. They want Navalny to hate his life.00:19:37
Where do you get all the information from? Does one of his lawyers live in Vladimir region?00:19:43
As far as I know, nobody lives there. They drive to see him and then tell us..00:19:48
A few times a week.00:19:49
They do. We also text him using the prison mail.00:19:55
You can get a reply from him. He has no time to reply to everyone..00:20:00
They give him a pen for thirty minutes a day.00:20:07
He writes me a couple of lines.00:20:15
I send him the texts of our investigations..00:20:17
A couple of days later he replies:"This was great. This wasn't good enough"00:20:25
The second biggest mansion after the Buckingham Palace..in London or in England?00:20:29
In Great Britain, I guess.00:20:33
I'm sorry. Great Britain.00:20:36
Guryev's mansion. Who is Guryev?00:20:41
Nobody knows who he is.00:20:44
This guy has never been noticeable.00:20:48
For about ten years he was a senator from Murmansk region.00:20:56
Has anyone heard of him? Who is Guryev?00:21:00
Nobody has heard of him. This mansion was being reconstructed for ten years.00:21:06
And there were so many rumors about this mansion.00:21:12
It used to belong to British aristocrats and they would have parties and invite the Royal family members..00:21:20
Then this house was bought by Assad family.00:21:24
Bashar Assad?00:21:26
Yep.00:21:27
And then this mansion was bought by an offshore company.00:21:31
For a few years people were guessing who owned this mansion.00:21:39
And then this offshore company was investigated by the New Yorker reporter.00:21:46
He wrote an article saying that this mansion belonged to a Russian businessman called Andrey Guryev.00:21:55
He used to be a senator and he owned FosAgro company.00:22:01
This is it. When I found out it was him I was upset.00:22:08
I didn't know him, to be honest.00:22:11
Why were you upset?00:22:13
I thought it was Putin..or his secret child..or his wife..Alina Kabayeva..00:22:22
Some of our dear heroes..00:22:25
It turned out that the house was owned by a humble person with a mustache..00:22:30
He had no public image despite being a senator.00:22:36
There is nothing you can google about him.00:22:38
In fact, he is a very interesting character.00:22:42
There's a lot to investigate here.00:22:45
The other 20% of FosAgro shares, which is the biggest producer and exporter of phosphates..00:22:54
They have a plant in Kirovsk, Murmansk region.00:23:01
Their plant in called Apatity. This is a famous city-forming enterprise.00:23:09
The other 20% of the company belong to Putin's thesis supervisor.00:23:16
The rector of Saint Petersburg Mining University called Litvinenko.00:23:22
Putin wrote his thesis paper under his supervision.00:23:30
His thesis was plagiarized.00:23:33
They became friends. Litvinenko was the head of Putin's campaign headquarters three times.00:23:38
The rector of a university got 20% of one of the biggest mining companies in Russia.00:23:47
A couple of years ago he joined the Forbes list of billionaires.00:23:54
He got his share from Guryev.00:24:03
I guess, this gentleman's role is underestimated. We'll get to know more about him later.
This might be Putin's 20%.00:24:15
I can't exclude that.00:24:17
This lovely dog has no idea what we're talking about now.00:24:25
I urge everyone to look this mansion up on YouTube.00:24:31
I've seen lots of mansions and castles. We film those a lot.00:24:39
When I saw this mansion I could not believe my eyes.00:24:45
From the street you can only see a tiny piece of the brick walls of the mansion.00:24:51
It is a typical British mansion. There are twenty five bedrooms there.00:24:57
Do you know what Guryev did?00:25:00
He dug an underground house 4000 square meters big.00:25:07
This old mansion looks like an icing on a cake.00:25:17
The underground facilities are insane. A twenty-five car parking with an elevator..A sauna, a swimming pool..Service tunnels.00:25:27
This is all public information.00:25:30
So what? This is his property.00:25:32
You're judging him for digging these underground floors..00:25:39
What do you mean so what? Have you ever been to Kirovsk?00:25:41
I haven't. I know what it looks like.00:25:45
This is such a beautiful region.00:25:49
There is a lake and the mountains..The Khibiny mountains.00:25:55
Russian Norway. Russian Switzerland.00:25:58
This could look like Norway.00:26:00
And there are suburbs..These houses are dangerous.00:26:07
For some reason people still live in those. Putin has promised to build them new houses.00:26:14
FosAgro museum is a landmark of the town. It's a tower that look like Big Ben and they call it a Big Ben.00:26:24
Their wages are very low.00:26:29
I don't understand why Guryev's employees live this way.00:26:39
While he lives here.00:26:43
With the real Big Ben.00:26:44
This is unfair, I agree.00:26:50
I felt like you didn't like his style.00:26:54
You didn't like his taste.00:26:56
No. He's free to have any taste.00:27:00
Don't you feel like this injustice is pretty common worldwide?
There are billionaires in the West who own the resources and their employees are very poor, too.00:27:23
This is not about him being wealthy. He's taken our common resources.00:27:35
He privatized a Soviet plant. He's made a fortune selling Russian resources.00:27:43
He's not paying his taxes. He's definitely using tax havens.00:27:47
He didn't bother spending his money in Russia.00:27:53
He's spent 300 or 400 million pounds on building his mansion.00:28:00
This is my problem. It's not about the inequality.00:28:04
We were robbed of our resources.00:28:08
This is wrong.00:28:09
I agree, but..You've been to Cote d'Azur, haven't you?00:28:14
I have.00:28:15
Can you find anyone who owns a plant in Pittsburg and has bought a mansion in Cote d'Azur?00:28:21
This exists, too.00:28:24
I guess.00:28:25
Some people own oil companies in Saudi Arabia and Middle East..00:28:34
Saudi Arabia is a bad example. I'm looking at the Western world.00:28:41
I'm looking at democracies.00:28:44
I felt like this was common.00:28:48
The context is crucial.00:28:51
I think I might be wrong..but still..This is not the same.00:29:01
An oligarch in the US or the UK, where on average people are not as poor..00:29:13
They are not rich..They are not bathing in gold like Scrooge McDuck.00:29:20
This is different. Inequality in Russia is so dramatic..This is the problem.00:29:29
An oligarch from Russia pisses me off more than an oligarch from a wealthy country.00:29:42
There is a correlation for me.00:29:48
My main problem with the Great Britain: they don't like Putin, they are fighting him.00:29:55
On another side, the wealthiest streets of London are full of Russian corrupt billionaires.00:30:03
Authorities could never make so much money.00:30:05
How does this work?00:30:08
Every Russian tourist has to prove the purpose of the visit..00:30:16
They are coming to see the Harry Potter museum..00:30:18
While others are free to but real estate here.00:30:21
London wanted to be the capital of the world.00:30:29
They wanted to be the home of all the wealthy people.00:30:34
They were willing to ignore stuff you shouldn't ignore.00:30:39
This is a feature, not a bug.00:30:45
London was designed this way. They built this system.00:30:54
You don't have to be an oligarch. If you have a few hundreds millions..00:30:59
You can spend a small portion of your money to buy a new life here.00:31:03
Until recently a British passport cost 1.5 or 2 million pounds.00:31:10
Deal.00:31:12
Legally?00:31:13
You make an investment and you get the passport.00:31:17
You can open an account in a special bank.00:31:23
They would help you open an account in a tax haven.00:31:28
The Caymans, the Bahamas, Jersey..Whatever. Gibraltar.00:31:38
These are all tax havens controlled by the UK.00:31:43
They would help you escape your tax obligation in Russia and the UK.00:31:51
You would get a rare status.00:31:55
Your assets would be distributed around the world.00:31:58
These services are available if you are rich enough.00:32:05
For a regular person London is an extremely expensive city. It's hard to get a UK visa now.00:32:16
They would ask you a lot of questions. It all looks unfriendly.00:32:21
Putin and his supporters would ask you how can London judge anyone while having legalized corruption.00:32:32
They have admitted they were wrong.00:32:33
They've cancelled all these laws in the last couple of years.
All of these laws are cancelled.00:32:44
Great Britain has become one of the most transparent jurisdictions lately. As an investigator I can easily find the information about other's assets here.00:32:57
All the documents are available to public here.00:33:04
Recently they've adopted a new law that doesn't allow anonymous ownership of the real estate.00:33:13
Most of these beautiful houses that used to be stables..These belong to offshore companies.00:33:26
These companies are registered at the Caymans or the Seychelles.00:33:32
This is going to end soon. There would be an extra line in the register with the owners name.00:33:49
They made all the companies disclose their owners.00:33:54
They are heading in the right direction.00:33:56
Imagine I was an official in Kostroma. I decided to buy a flat in Mayfair for four million pounds.00:34:04
Can I do it?00:34:05
I guess, you can.00:34:08
Unfortunately, words and actions can be different here.00:34:15
They can't adjust the laws so quickly after the political statements.00:34:21
They are making these statements now. It started recently.00:34:28
They are asking questions. They have questions to Lebedev, the Lord of Siberia..00:34:42
Alexander Lebedev..00:34:43
No, his son Evgeny. He's a lord.00:34:45
They have admitted there is a problem. It doesn't mean it is going to be solved soon.00:34:56
Admitting a problem is better than denying it.00:35:00
In the early 2000's they had a Russian Winter at the Trafalgar Square.00:35:07
They had Russian pop stars there. All these people are supporting the war now.00:35:11
They all performed here. The Russian flag was everywhere. People were eating Russian pancakes.00:35:21
They all wanted more of Russian money.00:35:24
Crimea, Salisbury..and the war.00:35:30
This made them reconsider everything. They're changing the concept of the city now.00:35:39
They admitted that Russian money harmed the UK economy.00:35:44
It distorted the real estate market.00:35:48
A regular person cannot afford buying a flat here. This is not okay.00:35:56
It is not okay that nobody lives in these houses.00:36:00
Do you know that the overall price of the abandoned flats in London is equal to the overall price of all real estate in Liverpool?00:36:11
Wow..Liverpool is a big city.00:36:14
It is.00:36:16
Is this true that Sherlock Holmes' house belongs to Nazarbaev's family?00:36:21
This investigation was done a long time ago.00:36:25
This is common among corrupt officials. They love symbolic places.00:36:41
Places with history.00:36:42
Shuvalov owns a flat that we found here..It is located in the former Mi-5 building.00:36:51
It's a couple of meters from Downing Street, 10, the Prime Minister's residence.00:36:59
He's got the most amazing view of Thames.00:37:04
And the Parliament and the London Eye.00:37:09
This is not an accident. Shuvalov chose this flat because it made him look cooler.00:37:23
The editor in chief of Ekho Moskvy Alexey Venedictov said:"If we look at eight of Navalny's closest allies, some of them have erased their biographies"00:37:35
"We cannot trace their history before they became Navalny's allies"00:37:39
I guess, he was talking about you..00:37:42
I agree.00:37:43
I would like to fill in the gaps and ask you a couple of basic question about you.00:37:51
You've told some parts of your story and I'm not going to get into details here..00:37:54
Correct me if I'm wrong.00:37:57
Okay. You were born in Zelenograd.00:37:59
Yes.00:38:00
You were home schooled.00:38:03
I was.00:38:04
You entered MSU to study sociology.00:38:06
I did. You wanted to study journalism but your parents said this was a useless job.00:38:14
You agreed to study sociology.00:38:15
I did.00:38:16
What year was that?00:38:19
2003.00:38:20
We entered MSU in the same year.00:38:23
We could be classmates.00:38:25
If I didn't listen to my parents.00:38:28
Sociology was a new faculty back then.00:38:36
It was more than ten years old already.00:38:37
It had a reputation of the rich kids' faculty.00:38:43
They said that all the girls in the sociology class would wear a new dress every day.00:38:53
I've never seen these girls because I studied in another building.00:38:57
I only heard the rumors. Were these true?00:39:00
This was true.00:39:01
There were rich kids there.00:39:04
Mostly, yes. You couldn't enter this faculty without a bribe.00:39:11
You couldn't get a full scholarship for free.00:39:13
MSU was selling places.00:39:21
This system worked pretty well.00:39:27
You would write an exam in a big room.00:39:36
You would write an essay or do a math test.00:39:40
Then on your way out all the applicants would be separated into two groups.00:39:45
One group would go home and prepare for the next exam.00:39:50
Another group would get into a bus and go to a nearest school, where they would pass this exam one more time.00:40:00
Their papers would be brought back to the university and these people would get full scholarship.00:40:09
You could still enter the faculty but you wouldn't get the scholarship.00:40:13
[Pevchikh got no scholarship]00:40:16
There were people whose parents were not rich.00:40:24
They entered the university fairly.00:40:30
I got there accidentally. Some people this faculty was a good one.00:40:33
The faculty of sociology sounds like a great place to study social science.
If you want to work in marketing or advertising..00:40:49
Or be a sociologist, which didn't sound absurd in 2003. This wasn't a bad idea.00:40:53
If you want to study political science, state management..This was all the faculty of sociology.00:41:00
It looked great on paper but none of it worked.00:41:05
There were great people, some of them are still my friends.00:41:17
On Holod.media website there is a profile of your classmate, who is now a Prime Minister of so-called DPR.00:41:28
One of your classmates said:"Pevchikh always looked rich. She wasn't a typical rich kid, though."00:41:44
"She was rich but she would be hanging out with the smart guys"00:41:49
How true is that?00:41:52
This is true but I wasn't rich. I wasn't wearing expensive clothes.00:42:04
When this article came out me and my friends sent each other the pictures from that time. We laughed a lot.00:42:09
Here's one of those.00:42:11
I haven't promised you that.00:42:13
This picture is published at MSU official web-site.00:42:15
It is available to everyone.00:42:17
So it's not true.00:42:18
It's not. I liked the smart guys, this is true.00:42:30
How do you survive there?00:42:32
On your third year you decided to move to London.00:42:35
As soon as I turned eighteen. I couldn't do it before I was eighteen.00:42:41
There was too much bureaucracy involved. I waited before turning eighteen.00:42:48
I entered LSE and I left.00:42:51
How much did it cost?00:42:52
Back then a year at LSE cost 12 thousand pounds. 11-12 thousand.00:43:05
How much did the dorm cost?00:43:08
I can't remember. The dorm wasn't expensive. It cost around 80 pounds per week.00:43:15
You lived in a dorm, right?00:43:17
I did.00:43:19
Your dad paid for this.00:43:21
He did.00:43:22
Can you tell me about your parents?00:43:24
My mom is retired now. My dad..What can I tell you?00:43:34
What do they do?00:43:35
My mom is retired, my dad works in some tech startups.00:43:43
Are they divorced?00:43:45
They are. For a while. They weren't divorced back then.00:43:48
In what year?00:43:50
They broke up already. I don't know if they were already divorced..00:43:58
They broke up and lived separately.00:44:02
Was it hard for you to tell your parents you wanted to leave MSU and go to England?00:44:09
This was super easy. My parents are very liberal. They never banned me from doing anything apart from studying journalism.00:44:18
They supported me. And they paid for my studies.00:44:25
They didn't help me choose the university. I did it myself.00:44:31
When I entered the university they supported me a lot. This wasn't a hard decision for me. We all saw it as something positive.00:44:45
I told them I wasn't happy with MSU.00:44:49
It was clear that nothing was going to change after three years.00:44:54
Why weren't you happy?00:44:55
The atmosphere was similar to what happened to Russia later.00:45:00
For me it was a preview of what was coming next.00:45:06
Dean Dobrenkov was very corrupt. He made us buy his books.00:45:12
His text books?00:45:13
These were nine-volume editions full of plagiarism.00:45:20
He looked like a typical Edinaya Rossiya deputy.00:45:28
There was a long hall at his office. It looked better than the faculty building.00:45:34
There were pictures and letters on the walls.00:45:39
The quality of education was horrible. They were extorting bribes.00:45:43
From the students?00:45:45
Yes. This was a weird feeling.00:45:51
I was young. An adult came to me and said I needed to please him to get a good grade.00:46:01
This was gross. This wasn't the main problem, though.00:46:07
The main problem was that their values had nothing to do with my values.00:46:18
I came there to study social sciences.00:46:19
I thought they would tell me about politics, philosophy..00:46:26
They were teaching us all the Putin's bullshit.00:46:31
America was fighting us..All the conspiracies..The Cold War still going on..00:46:40
The American corporations trying to destroy Russia..00:46:45
Some wild ancient values they taught us.00:46:49
This was all wrong. Religion, patriarchy..00:46:56
This was haunting me.00:46:58
I love studying. I was really interested in sociology.00:47:07
I had to choose, whether I change the university or I put up with being uneducated.00:47:19
Where was your father working at when he was paying for your university?00:47:23
He was working in Krasnodar region. He lived in Gelendzhik. He owned a few hotels.00:47:35
He renovated old Soviet hotels and managed these hotels in Geledzhik and Krasnodar region.00:47:46
Was he an employee or the owner?00:47:48
He was an employee that got his share later.00:47:54
How rich were you?00:47:56
Were you a middle class or an upper-middle class family?00:48:00
Today this would be a middle class.00:48:02
In the nineties we were wealthier than most of the people. We had cars, we traveled a lot..00:48:21
We could afford paying for my university.00:48:26
Back then this was rare. Nowadays our family would be a typical middle class family.00:48:37
Maybe, the upper 25%.00:48:41
What is the English education like?00:48:44
What it was for you?00:48:45
This is absolutely different from the education in Russia.00:48:48
A student is much more independent there.00:48:52
You don't have a lot of classes there.00:48:54
You don't have five classes a day. You don't spend the whole day in the university.00:49:04
Usually, you have about eight classes per week. That's it.00:49:09
Four lectures and four seminars.00:49:13
1.5 classes per day on average.00:49:14
Some days you have two classes, some days you have none.00:49:16
I'm sorry, but..What can you learn from that?00:49:20
You can learn a lot.00:49:23
On your first class they would give you a huge list of books you've got to read.00:49:28
If you don't read these books you would feel useless on your next class.00:49:33
You won't be able to discuss anything. You won't be able to participate. You would feel stupid.00:49:40
This is why everyone reads a lot.00:49:42
After going to classes you go to the library.00:49:51
The library is a place where you meet your friends.00:49:53
You prepare for your exams, you do your homework, you hang out in the library.00:50:01
I think that I have met most of my friends in a library.00:50:07
This sound horrible..00:50:10
So nerdy..00:50:11
I'm such a nerd for saying this..Library was the funniest place in the university.00:50:20
It was working 24/7. You could take a nap there.00:50:24
The building of the LSE library is a great building. There are so many books there, it's impressive.00:50:33
This is one of the biggest collections of books on sociology.00:50:38
The students were motivated to study, not forced. It makes learning much easier.00:50:50
Studying in England is also about what you do outside of your classes.00:50:57
It's not as interesting as in the US where they do all kinds of sports.00:51:04
England is a bit different. They have a fair in the beginning of the year.00:51:10
You walk around the alley and all the societies invite you to join them.00:51:16
If you are interested in Russian literature - welcome.00:51:19
You are free to join.00:51:21
A section.00:51:23
Dead Poets Society.00:51:24
Kind of.00:51:27
There's a lot of sports sections.00:51:29
The sports section includes all kinds of sports.00:51:34
Football players would hang out with kite surfers and skiers and snowboarders.00:51:45
This was called the Athletic Union.00:51:47
They would have sports events and their own party every Wednesday.00:52:00
If you don't go to the party you don't get your precious experience.00:52:10
There are many ethnic communities. Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, French..00:52:17
Traveling, economics, all kinds of stuff.00:52:23
You can choose any.00:52:26
You meet people at the library, at these events, at your classes..00:52:35
You are enjoying your student life. This is how you learn.00:52:40
We asked Tinkov what was the difference between Russian and Western education. His kids studied abroad, too.00:52:49
He said:"They cheat in Russia and they don't cheat abroad"00:52:52
They never cheat.00:52:53
You can't cheat.00:52:56
You can't.00:52:57
Do you get punished? Or is this also bad among the students?00:53:03
You get punished. All the exams are checked using special software..00:53:10
And this is also socially unacceptable.00:53:12
You're a loser if you're cheating.00:53:16
You came back to Moscow after graduating from LSE.00:53:19
I did.00:53:20
You went back to MSU.00:53:21
Right.00:53:22
Why? I wanted to get the second diploma.00:53:27
Did you finish studying in London?00:53:29
I did. I'm a bachelor in England and Russia. I don't if five years at MSU count as BSc.00:53:35
Basically, I have two higher education diplomas.00:53:43
You came back for two more years at MSU.00:53:46
I did. Your thesis paper was supervised by Alexander Dugin.00:53:51
Yes. What was the subject of the paper?00:53:53
Ethnic and sociological image of modern Great Britain.00:53:57
I'm sorry for letting you down this wasn't a fascist subject.00:54:03
How could Alexander Dugin be interested in this subject?00:54:07
He was quite interested. Historically, LSE has been very strong at studying nations and nationalism.00:54:26
Most of the authors we studied in MSU used to work at LSE.00:54:43
This was a historical fact and Dugin knew LSE very well.00:54:48
His theory about Heartland and Rimland countries fighting each other..00:55:04
Ocean civilization and Earth civilization.00:55:08
Anglo-Saxon world would be fighting Russia, which would be in the center of Heartland, fighting the US.00:55:25
He took this theory from other authors. Dugin is quite inferior.00:55:39
His theories are not highly appreciated because he took his ideas from many other authors.00:55:52
His Eurasian theory is mainly based on a guy who created geopolitics, his name was Mackinder.00:56:01
He was the head of LSE, Dugin mentions him a lot in his lectures.00:56:08
Dugin knew a lot about LSE and he was curious about this university.00:56:17
He would ask me about my classes there.
I guess, he suggested this subject to me.00:56:27
I suggested a few subjects and he chose this one.00:56:31
I got an A for it.00:56:33
Dugin was a meme. There was no Ukrainophobia, no fascism, no antisemitism..00:56:45
His lectured used to be fun. He would write articles based on Katya Lel songs.00:56:51
He would analyze Tanya Bulanova's songs.00:56:57
He said that all the tourists needed to have an Idiot's ID because tourism was for idiots.00:57:10
He said that the surfers had to disappear because their white teeth and golden skin were the opposite of a Russian soul.00:57:27
He was a funny psycho. He was original. He had a long beard..00:57:40
He would wear only black. He would draw some crazy diagrams. These diagrams are available on the Internet.00:57:52
This man was weird, not really mentally healthy, but he was charismatic compared to other lecturers.00:58:11
We were seventeen or eighteen and he would throw words like rhizome, noomakhia, dark logos..00:58:22
What do you think about the dark logos?00:58:24
Dasein..Dugin explaining dasein in one of the most hilarious lectures ever. You can find it online.
This is a key definition of his theory.00:58:38
Dugin has created his philosophical concept.00:58:45
It is based on dasein, which he stole from Heidegger.00:58:52
Dugin is inferior. I can assure you that his work have no scientific value.00:59:00
He would teach other subjects pretty boring.00:59:03
He would read us the text book. Often he would change the topic..00:59:17
He would add that the problem wasn't as obvious.00:59:21
He said American troops would come to our dorm and force their values or kidnap us.00:59:31
He liked Gaddafi, he liked Hussein. He wasn't so straightforward. He didn't draw swastikas on the chalkboard..00:59:44
However, he would always lead to his ultra-right ideology that he preaches now.00:59:59
Now he's known as the main intellectual fascist.01:00:04
Do you really think Putin listens to Dugin?01:00:07
I don't think so.01:00:09
I don't think Dugin has ever met Putin.01:00:15
He is known as one of the creators of the Russian World concept.01:00:20
I think, this is a coincidence.01:00:25
Dugin preaches the ideas that Putin believes in.01:00:33
We cannot deny it. Eurasian theory is similar to the Russian World concept.01:00:43
Dugin has always been a Ukrainophobe.01:00:46
Now we might think that the Ukrainophobia in Kremlin comes from Dugin.01:00:53
I don't feel like Dugin shared any of his ideas with Putin.01:01:05
Dugin is inferior, he plagiarized his ideas from other authors. He mixed everything into a new concept.01:01:22
Putin reads the same original authors: Ilyin..and others authors he quotes.01:01:31
Putin has come to the same conclusions as Dugin after his research.
After Dugin's daughter got murdered he's been getting more attention.01:01:45
I think that Dugin has made up this fake image of a philosopher.01:01:54
He's good at promoting himself. He's been recording his lectures since the day one.01:02:08
Nobody could sit in the front row because there was a camera there.01:02:11
He uploaded his lectures on YouTube. This was the early era of YouTube. He uploaded everything to his website.01:02:21
He did a lot of interviews abroad. In France, England and other countries.01:02:32
He's built a reputation abroad. I was surprised to find out that foreign reporters knew him.01:02:45
Nobody in Russia knew Dugin back then.01:02:47
He was a marginal person.01:02:50
He's promoted himself as the main Russian philosopher.01:03:01
It stops and starts to rain again all the time. We're going to be using umbrellas in some parts of the interview.01:03:06
You had Angela Merkel and Dmitry Medvedev giving lectures at LSE.01:03:13
This is true. We had a lot of famous guests. We would have some Prime Minister every week.01:03:21
Imagine, Angela Merkel, who was a chancellor back then, comes to give a lecture.. 01:03:26
Sometimes, you don't even find out. You might find out from a leaflet in the library.01:03:32
You come to the university pub to have a beer and you see the leaflet there. The international affairs community invites Angela Merkel.01:03:47
Did she say anything interesting?01:03:49
It depends on the performer.01:03:50
Politicians tend to filter their words.01:03:53
I recommend watching the Medvedev's lecture. It's available online.01:04:02
He was still the president and he made a stop on his way home from the G-8 summit.01:04:09
He made this stop at LSE. He spoke like it wasn't him. I can't believe this was the same person who calls everyone pigs today.01:04:28
He was smiling, he was making jokes. He was telling us about the G-8 summit.01:04:38
And then he would answer the questions for half an hour.01:04:47
He would talk to regular students. These questions were not approved in advance.01:04:54
He was answering all the questions. And then he put on the famous LSE hat.01:05:06
Mandela used to wear this hat, too, when he came to LSE.01:05:10
Medvedev got this silly hat and put it on. Everyone was happy.01:05:17
This wasn't so long ago.01:05:20
Is this true that you worked as the parliamentarian assistant?01:05:23
It is.01:05:24
Who was this?01:05:26
This was a woman from the liberal party.01:05:32
This was an internship I found at the university. Everyone who studies political science gets to work in the Parliament.01:05:45
This was a short internship at the liberal party. I'm trying to remember her name..01:05:53
She was a shadow minister responsible for pensions and employment.01:05:59
Did you have this internship while you were a student?01:06:01
This happened the next summer after I graduated.01:06:06
Did you like it?01:06:08
It was fun. My job was pretty simple. I had to answer to the letters from her county.01:06:19
They have to reply to all the letters from your electoral district.01:06:24
You get letters from your voters.01:06:26
Exactly. They write these on paper.01:06:28
I was an intern and I had to answer these letters.01:06:35
I thought..What does a parliamentarian do? Something really important for the country..01:06:43
She was a representative from Cardiff, Wales.01:06:52
Most of the letters looked like this:
"I was on a train home from Cardiff to Abergavenny. I saw some cows and they looked really slim to me"01:07:05
"Can you please tell me why our beautiful cows look so exhausted? Do they eat well?"01:07:13
Are you kidding?01:07:14
I'm not. I had to reply to these letters.01:07:17
I had to figure out what was going on there.01:07:21
Were these cows really underweight?01:07:25
Some people write:"My cat went for a walk and got hit by a car. The car owner is a scum who lives next street."01:07:35
"Can you do something about it?"01:07:37
You have to reply carefully. I would reply:
"I am sorry your cat passed away."01:07:49
"Let me share my condolences with you. You need to report to the police"01:07:58
What can you recommend?01:08:00
My boss signed this letter and I sent it from the Parliamentarian post office.01:08:12
We would store all the inbox letters in the archives.01:08:22
Did Gaddafi's son study with you?01:08:24
He did.01:08:25
I'm lucky with my classmates.01:08:28
In MSU I studied with the future DPR Prime Minister, in LSE I studied with Gaddafi's son.01:08:37
We weren't going to the same classes. Nobody goes to exactly the same classes there. You pick your courses yourself.01:08:44
You meet different people at different classes.01:08:47
Gadaffi's son graduated in 2008, like me. He was writing his PhD paper.01:08:58
He wasn't writing it..He didn't do shit.01:09:03
Everybody knew he was studying with us. Nobody has ever seen him at LSE.01:09:13
He got his PhD and then one wing of the building was sponsored by Gaddafi.01:09:25
He donated money.01:09:29
It contradicts the fact that they don't cheat in England.01:09:33
How?01:09:35
He was allowed to study because his father sponsored the university.01:09:41
Didn't he cheat?01:09:43
His thesis paper was checked and there was no plagiarism found there. This can be explained easily.01:09:50
He had a ghostwriter.01:09:52
Someone wrote his paper for him.01:09:54
Wait, I've got an ace in the hole.01:09:57
Three or four years later the head of LSE had to resign because of Gaddafi.01:10:09
Because of the new wing?01:10:11
For being connected to Libya and taking money from Gaddafi.01:10:17
They were going to start a program for Libyan elite kids.01:10:29
The head of LSE, who awarded me with my diploma, had to resign.01:10:44
He wrote a letter explaining why it was wrong.01:10:50
Why he was wrong?01:10:52
Yes, why it was wrong to take the money.01:10:57
This is when the Libya events happened.01:11:02
It is a sensitive topic here because of Lockerbie.01:11:07
The terrorists exploded a plane above Lockerbie city. This plane was flying from London to New York.01:11:16
A few hundreds died in the crash.01:11:18
This plane fell on some houses and destroyed these.01:11:24
Some people died on the ground.01:11:27
Gaddafi took the responsibility for the attack. He paid the compensation to the victims families.01:11:33
England is sensitive to Libya and Gaddafi. His son was so integrated here and it was controversial.01:11:49
He didn't only study here. He would participate in public events, meet the Royals..01:11:57
He was invited everywhere. He was a shadow minister of foreign affairs.01:12:05
He was an representative of Gaddafi's regime and his potential heir.01:12:13
We know how it ended. He's still hiding somewhere.01:12:18
Recently he was going to take part in presidential elections is Libya.01:12:26
He would follow in the footsteps of his father.01:12:30
In 2010 you went to Canada, where you led the Russian students team in a G-8 and G-20 role play.01:12:41
I did.01:12:43
What kind of event was that?01:12:45
This was an event for the students from all over the country.01:12:50
I sent my CV..This is pretty common in Europe and the US.01:12:59
I was surprised to find out that Russia took part as well.01:13:02
They took a group of students and sent them to the location of the last summit. This is why we went to Vancouver.01:13:12
They would show us how these summits work. We would also have a role play..01:13:22
You would play politics. Yes. We would try to understand how it worked.01:13:26
We needed to do everything presidents did and then sign a communique.01:13:33
Shake hands, take a picture..We immersed ourselves in politics.01:13:41
Was this organized by the ministry of foreign affairs and the president's office?01:13:46
I'm not sure about the president's office.01:13:48
This is written in the press release by the MSU.01:13:54
Okay..I don't remember this.01:13:56
Were there any officials?01:13:58
On this trip?01:14:00
Yes. There were no officials.01:14:01
Surkov..01:14:03
No...Nobody.01:14:05
We went to the ministry when we were preparing for this trip.01:14:07
We went there on a tour. We talked to some official there.01:14:14
He was involved in the preparation for the real summits.01:14:21
We would follow what the ministers and the presidents did.01:14:35
Where did you work after graduating?01:14:37
I went to work in the finance.01:14:43
What kind of company was that?01:14:45
This was an international company. British American Tobacco.01:14:47
Moscow office or London office?01:14:50
I worked in both Moscow and London offices.01:14:53
What did you do there?01:14:54
I was responsible for paying taxes for excise goods.01:14:59
We can talk about it.01:15:02
Discuss the tax rates.01:15:07
This was such a disaster. The most boring job in the world.01:15:10
They paid me well, though.01:15:14
I could travel around the world, see different countries.01:15:17
The pay was good. I had to work every day from 9 to 17.01:15:22
When did you realize this wasn't your thing?01:15:24
On my first day.01:15:28
This was obvious to me.01:15:31
I tried to start a career in the industry because this is how you usually start your career.01:15:42
I worked there until I realized I didn't have to do it. It took a while.01:15:56
I was pressured by the people saying I needed to build a career in finance and make a lot of money.01:16:05
They said I had to reach something before I was 25..01:16:09
Make this amount of money, go to an expensive vacation..01:16:14
I'm glad I had a chance to escape this life quite quickly.01:16:23
Most of my classmates are still working in the corporate world.01:16:32
Do you have a flat in London that faces Tower?01:16:34
I don't.01:16:35
Do you have a flat in London?01:16:37
I do.01:16:38
Did you buy it when you were working for American Tobacco?01:16:42
I had been saving for this flat before I left the company.01:16:50
This flat reportedly costs 400 thousand pounds.01:16:57
We need to clarify that I didn't pay this amount.01:17:04
I saved for the down payment which goes up to 10-15% of the full price.01:17:11
I've got a thirty five year mortgage.01:17:13
Have you got a mortgage?01:17:14
I do.01:17:15
How much do you pay monthly?01:17:17
I'm paying 700 pounds a month.01:17:20
Renting this flat is twice more expensive than paying for the mortgage.01:17:25
This is why after paying for the university debt everyone starts saving for the down payment.01:17:36
Mortgage is much cheaper than rent.01:17:40
The rent is crazy here.01:17:42
How big is your flat?01:17:44
38 square meters.01:17:47
You said you got interested in ACF (Anti-Corruption Foundation) in 2009.01:17:51
Or maybe 2010.01:17:53
This was after they released the investigation about the pipes.01:17:57
What happened next? When did you join the ACF?01:18:02
There was no ACF before me. There was Navalny's blog.01:18:06
Rospil.01:18:07
No. There was no Rospil yet. He had a LiveJournal page.01:18:11
Where he would write about politics and corruption.
Everyone in Moscow was reading his blog.01:18:21
It was written very well. Funny and interesting.01:18:26
He would sue everyone, he would buy shares of many companies.01:18:37
It allowed him to get the documents and make them public.01:18:42
In the early 2011 he started a project called Rospil.01:18:49
He was looking for a lawyer. I found the job position and realized this was a job, too.01:18:56
He wasn't just writing from home. I realized there was a company.01:19:02
I applied to this position. Of course, they didn't invite me there. They invited Lyuba Sobol.01:19:12
I met Alexei. He said I didn't match this position at all but we could think of something else for me.01:19:23
This is how we made the investigations department.01:19:25
When did this happen?01:19:27
In 2011.01:19:29
Yes.01:19:30
ACF was created in 2012.01:19:33
What was your first investigation?01:19:34
VTB drilling rigs.01:19:36
And the next one?01:19:37
This investigation was started by Alexei and I finished it.01:19:44
Then we would investigate some apartments..Miami..Nothing serious.01:19:51
My first big investigation was about Yakunin and Russian Railways.01:19:56
Coat stores.01:19:57
Exactly. And there was Zheleznyak before Yakunin..01:19:59
I'm trying to remember..We made short publications with a funny meme.01:20:11
Alexei would make up funny insults for the officials.01:20:13
I was helping him to do something he was already doing.01:20:18
And then I became more independent and did an investigation about Russian Railways.01:20:24
How long were you combining this with your work?01:20:27
For a long time.01:20:29
Your main job was at British American Tobacco.01:20:31
Yes. I would combine two jobs for about four years.01:20:36
Three or four years. I had a full-time job.01:20:39
I came home to continue working.01:20:42
I don't know how I survived this.01:20:44
I would work at the office from 9 to 17, then I would rest for an hour and work until midnight for Navalny.01:20:53
You released the investigation about Yakunin while you were still working at the office.01:20:56
I did.01:20:57
Did anyone know what you were doing?01:21:00
My friends knew I was working for Navalny..01:21:08
I didn't tell my boss, though.01:21:11
When did you leave?01:21:13
In 2014 or 2015.01:21:17
2014.01:21:22
You're the boss of ACF investigations.01:21:25
I am. Can you name any investigations that changed anything?01:21:31
Were your heroes ever punished for being corrupt?01:21:37
What are you doing in the next five hours?01:21:42
Dmitry Medvedev.01:21:47
As simple as that.01:21:49
How did his life changed after the investigation?01:21:52
His political career was over.01:21:59
Even though he is still formally a high-ranking official..01:22:06
Anyone..Even the critics of ACF and our investigations..01:22:17
Anyone would tell you this investigation destroyed Medvedev's career.01:22:24
He was considered to be Putin's successor one more time..01:22:29
He was seen as a significant politician.01:22:33
Now he's calling everyone pigs on his Telegram channel, where he writes about Satan, Demon, and Iblis.01:22:41
This what our ex-president looks like today.01:22:49
Is there an investigation that you consider a failure?01:23:00
I can't think of any. You did an investigation about Skabeeva and Popov. You have found some expensive real estate at Dinamo district.01:23:09
You knew they took this apartments under a mortgage and you didn't mention it in the investigation.01:23:15
Why?01:23:17
This investigation wasn't about Popov being illegally rich.01:23:21
This wasn't about them not having enough money to afford these apartments.01:23:25
Of course, they've got the money.01:23:29
They are sponsored by the tax payers via propaganda.01:23:34
This investigation proved that Popov was a crook and he lied to his voters.01:23:43
In Krylatskoye, Kuntsevo, Ramenki and Universitet districts.01:23:49
He would come to the old and tiny flats in the center of Moscow and promise he would change this.01:24:11
We didn't blame his for stealing money.01:24:19
His crime was different..01:24:23
This was an ethical crime. He works for the propaganda and he lies before the elections.01:24:31
Everyone saw this and people didn't vote for him.01:24:37
He lost the offline elections. He won because of the online voting fraud.01:24:49
He took Mikhail Lovanov's place illegally.01:24:52
I don't like Popov and Skabeeva neither but I think it was unfair not to mention the mortgage.01:25:02
Why do you think this was fair?01:25:07
I don't think this was a relevant detail.01:25:10
We don't know the price of the apartments or the mortgage terms..01:25:15
You're a queen of facts, a queen of details.01:25:19
I would like to think so.01:25:21
Mortgage isn't an insignificant detail.01:25:24
For your viewers this is really important.
It was important for you to say that you have a mortgage, too.01:25:36
It helps us estimate the wealth of a person.01:25:40
Why wasn't this important in the investigation?01:25:45
It wasn't about the money.01:25:47
The investigation was about the hypocrisy.01:25:54
Not about him having a big apartment.01:25:58
We didn't investigate the source of his income. His wage is the source of his income.01:26:06
The investigation was about his lies about his real estate.01:26:17
He didn't declare his income properly.01:26:20
We didn't say he stole any of his money.01:26:24
I guess, this fact wouldn't change anything in the investigation.
It gave you an opportunity to ask a question.01:26:36
And that's it.01:26:37
This would change my perception as a viewer. I wouldn't have any trust issues with this investigation and your organization..01:26:47
This would look more honest from your side to mention all the details.01:26:58
I hope I explained why we didn't do it. We didn't mean to hide anything.
As an editor I thought this wasn't worth mentioning.01:27:15
We didn't know enough details about the mortgage terms to mention it. We only know there is a mortgage in VTB.01:27:28
The main question that we discussed with Yulia Latynina..I got one question..01:27:38
How was it possible to shoot Prime Minister Medvedev's residence from a drone?01:27:50
As detailed as Navalny's team did.01:27:55
A question from Nikolay Solodnikov.01:27:56
How let you fly above Medvedev's residence?01:28:02
He was the second in command. Nobody would let you fly a drone above him..01:28:10
Dear Nikolay..We don't ask for permission when we film the second in command or the first in command.01:28:23
Recently we've flown above Putin's residence in Valdai.01:28:30
This is an official residence, unlike Medvedev's mansion in Ples.01:28:34
This residence is officially protected by FSO. Putin spends a lot of time there.01:28:42
We've filmed this residence in all details and showed it to our dear followers.01:28:49
We've never asked for permission to launch a drone.01:28:57
The question wasn't about the permission.01:28:59
How can FSO protect the residence and allow a drone?01:29:04
They can.01:29:05
There is a drone flying above them..01:29:07
You can paste this video of a DJI flying above Putin's residence in Valdai.01:29:11
We've done an investigation about this residence.01:29:14
I really love the thumbnail with Putin at SPA.01:29:19
He's wearing a bathrobe there. He's built a SPA center there.01:29:24
We flew over this center and filmed it. We filmed the mansion and the SPA center.01:29:32
And some other building, too.01:29:35
This is how we work.01:29:38
This is why I am so proud of my colleagues.01:29:44
They are brave and daring enough to do it.01:29:49
Flying over the Gelendzhik mansion, too. We've heard the same question about that investigation.01:29:55
Let me answer your question. Medvedev's residence in Ples is not an official residence.01:30:01
It belongs to an organization, not a person.01:30:07
This organization is owned by two oligarchs who gave this mansion to Medvedev.01:30:10
This residence is unofficial. This is what the investigation was about.01:30:21
Medvedev was using charity funds to hide his assets.01:30:25
Even if there was a guard there responsible for safety..Even if he worked for FSO..01:30:37
If his job was to make sure there were no drones..01:30:40
What does he do? Does he look up in the sky the whole day?01:30:46
In all directions? Imagine he got lucky and he spotted a drone.01:30:54
It's flying very fast and very high above the ground.01:30:58
We made a circle around the mansion and left.01:31:01
After you did this interview with Solodnikov I uploaded a video where..01:31:12
Where Alburov catches this drone in the end.01:31:13
Alburov catches the drone while standing across the Volga river.01:31:17
I got this. I hope Kolya heard this, too.01:31:20
How can you explain what happened in Valdai? This is an official residence.01:31:26
We know the Putin cares a lot about his security.01:31:28
Softly speaking, he is very careful.01:31:32
How could there be a UFO above his residence?01:31:37
Carelessness. Corruption. Disorder.01:31:43
They told him they installed an anti-drone system but they didn't.01:31:47
They said they bought a special rifle and hired a guy who would shoot from it but this guy was drinking in his room.01:31:55
There could be a million reasons.01:31:59
Even the advanced anti-drone systems are easy to avoid.01:32:08
You can re-flash the drone manually and make it not discoverable.01:32:22
If you see a drone you can find the remote control using the anti-drone system.01:32:27
It discovers the remote control.01:32:29
You can hack the drone and make the remote control and the operator not discoverable.01:32:41
You can launch it from across the river. You would have some time to leave before they reach you.01:32:50
They would have to come to the bridge first.01:32:54
We filmed Miller's mansion in Rublevka. You can't launch drones there but we succeeded.01:33:05
We've lost a couple of drones. In the end we managed to film everything.01:33:09
We got to ask Miller what he did with our drones.01:33:14
In your investigation about Gergiev you posted his bank account history.01:33:19
You posted his expenses at Nasha Dacha restaurant.01:33:24
Where did you get this data from?01:33:26
We use our sources and leaked databases.01:33:35
Aren't these the bank employees who leak the data?01:33:37
Some people are willing to share it.01:33:40
These are the bank employees.01:33:42
Not only them.01:33:44
What about Miller's wife expenses?01:33:48
The same stuff. The same.01:33:50
Do these people help you or do they just sell you this data?01:33:54
I can't tell you who's who.01:34:00
The answer is both.01:34:02
Sometimes random people help us and it scares me.01:34:09
They are sharing this sensitive data..01:34:14
Do they get paid?01:34:15
For free. I feel like this data compromises them.01:34:21
They still do it. And there are people who sell the data.01:34:25
Christo Grozev said that he spent 150 thousand dollars of his money to buy information for Bellingcat.01:34:35
If his wife finds out she would file for divorce, he said.01:34:38
Is there a maximum pay you spent on information?01:34:42
We're trying not to buy the data.01:34:49
We're doing it for the sake of art.01:34:58
We like using open sources or leaked sources.01:35:06
After the war began we've seen leaks almost every day. Lots of companies are getting their data leaked.01:35:20
We've collected so much information..We have enough information for our investigation for a couple of years to come.01:35:39
Even if there is no more data..They are closing the open register now.01:35:43
You cannot find out who owns the companies anymore.01:35:48
They are making this information private. Surovikin's wife cannot be found there anymore.01:35:52
This is a state secret.01:35:55
And they've just allowed the officials not to publish income statements.01:35:58
They are getting rid of investigative journalism. Putin's corruption allows these leaks to happen..01:36:11
As Christo said, for twenty bucks you could buy all the cell data of any person.01:36:21
This is the negative side of corruption. You can buy the data about Putin children's flight for twenty bucks.01:36:32
We've been talking about corruption a lot. It starts with bribing a police officer when you're driving..01:36:40
It's true, of course. I have a question, though.01:36:46
Imagine the second wave of mobilization has already begun.01:36:51
We don't need to imagine this. This is already happening slowly.01:36:55
Don't come to the draft board.01:36:57
Can you bribe the military commissioner to avoid being mobilized?01:37:05
This is a great question.01:37:13
You can.01:37:15
Sometimes your principles can be fluid.01:37:21
These aren't principles. You can bribe him and get punished for that.01:37:26
You can pay a fine. I don't know what is the penalty for this kind of bribe.01:37:31
It would be silly to deny the fact that war changes everything.01:37:40
It changes the rules of the game. The ethics.01:37:44
It changes the language we are speaking.01:37:47
Putin's mobilization is a threat to so many people..This is so dangerous..You've got to do all you can to avoid it.01:38:07
There are many ways to avoid it. You don't need to have money to bribe them.01:38:13
You can escape. Just don't take the subpoena.01:38:21
When I see pictures..I don't know if you've seen these pictures on Twitter.01:38:28
There's a battlefield shot from a drone.01:38:31
There's a little bit of snow..01:38:34
And the bodies.01:38:35
And there are tens of bodies. When you are looking at this picture at first you don't notice them.01:38:47
Is this a landscape? Is this a tree? Is this a body?01:38:51
Then you realize this field is full of dead bodies.01:39:01
We don't know where this picture was made. Maybe these are the mercenaries, maybe these are the mobilizes soldiers..01:39:06
This is what you get after you get mobilized. You'll be lying on this field.01:39:18
Someone would take a picture of your body from a drone. Nobody would collect your body.01:39:28
Considering these circumstances I think you can break the law to avoid mobilization.01:39:42
Usmanov. For those who's missed all the ACF investigations. Can you describe briefly what's your problem with Usmanov?01:39:55
I can't do it briefly. I've got so many problems with him this episode would last forever.01:40:06
In three sentences.01:40:07
He's an oligarch close to Putin.01:40:10
He's an oligarch who's made a fortune on the privatization of state companies.01:40:19
He's used Gazprom-bank to get rich when he bribed many Russian officials.01:40:30
He also bribed Dmitry Medvedev. This is the most famous case of corruption.01:40:41
Usmanov gave his mansion to Medvedev's charity foundation.01:40:48
This was a mansion at Rublevka.01:40:51
It doesn't get more corrupt than that.01:40:54
What do you think about Mikhail Friedman?01:41:00
I don't like him.01:41:02
But you're not dislike him as much as Usmanov.01:41:07
I don't. I'm trying to stay composed and not fight my interlocutor every time I hear an oligarch's name.01:41:18
I'm trying to be sane. I'm judging them separately.01:41:28
Friedman is a little different from other oligarchs..In the way he made a fortune.01:41:38
In the way he spent it.01:41:42
And maybe in his views.01:41:44
However, he is still not much better than Usmanov for me.01:41:53
Imagine that Friedman supports Ukraine in public..01:42:03
Let me remind everyone that his parents live in Lviv.01:42:05
A large part of his business was located in Ukraine.01:42:10
So he supports Ukraine and leaves Russia. Would he still be under sanctions?01:42:20
This is a speculative question. I don't know how can we guess.01:42:29
I don't know how these decisions are made.01:42:32
I think he would still be under sanctions..My problem with Friedman started before this war.01:42:44
It's not about supporting Ukraine or not doing it.01:42:50
This, too. Before the war he hadn't done many things he could had done.01:42:57
Supporting Ukraine would change my opinion.01:43:03
What is your problem with him?01:43:05
This is an exorbitant conformity. I divide all the oligarchs into groups.01:43:16
I love breaking everything into groups.01:43:18
We're using the term oligarch not correctly. It has lost its original meaning.01:43:25
Oligarchs mean something else now.01:43:27
An oligarch is a wealthy person who influences the politicians.01:43:30
Exactly. Now this term has another meaning.01:43:32
We're calling all the rich guys oligarchs. They don't have any political impact now.01:43:38
Exactly. There is a group of oligarchs who privatized the Soviet companies..01:43:46
Abramovich, Deripaska, Potanin, and so on.01:43:50
The first fave oligarchs.01:43:52
And there is another group of oligarchs. People who used to be Putin's neighbors.01:43:56
And went to the same judo school as him.01:43:59
None of these groups fit the original definition. They have no political power.01:44:09
Friedman is closer to the first group. He didn't take part in the privatization, though.01:44:16
It looks like I shouldn't be so angry with him, according to my own rules.01:44:21
I don't like him for another reason. It's obvious that he understand everything.01:44:29
So you're mad that he didn't oppose Putin.01:44:31
He played along with Putin.01:44:34
You know everything, you are a smart person..People told me he was smart.01:44:42
I feel like we can demand more from him.01:44:45
I feel like he had to behave differently if he really understood everything.01:44:55
If he had a voice to say his opinion.01:45:01
Formally, Friedman owned a private company and never worked for the government..01:45:13
Everything is so intertwined in Russia..He had to do something in 2011 and 2012.01:45:26
There was a chance to change something.01:45:29
He didn't support the protests.01:45:31
Nowadays they like coming back to that period.01:45:34
They like saying they almost supported the protests. They were thinking about sponsoring the protests..01:45:42
Kudrin took part in the protests..01:45:49
They like saying they were on the right side back then.01:45:55
They should have done more.01:45:58
Friedman has an infinite amount of money.01:46:03
He didn't use it properly.01:46:07
He kept playing along.01:46:10
What if Galitsky or Tinkov had a mansion like this..01:46:14
These people built their companies not selling natural resources and not privatizing old factories.01:46:18
Would you still be mad at them?01:46:20
We're coming back to Friedman, who lives three hundred meters away.01:46:25
Of course, I have less problems with them.01:46:28
My problem is different here.01:46:31
While they were building their mansions others were beaten up at the protests.01:46:43
They were sent to prison. They had dumbbells shoved up you know where.01:46:49
This is my problem.01:46:52
They were minding their own business.01:46:56
Building a house, saving money for their kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids, I guess.01:47:00
They ignored the fact that somebody was destroying our country.01:47:13
There is Friedman. He owns a private company. Your problem with is that..01:47:19
he stayed silent.01:47:20
He stayed silent.01:47:21
What should have he done?01:47:23
He's an example of another compromise.01:47:25
He belongs to the same group. He obeyed to the officials to save his money.01:47:42
He's got a big company with many employees.01:47:44
He should have either fought Putin's regime or supported the protests..01:48:03
Sent you the money.01:48:04
Given you the money.01:48:06
We can't take his money. I can't imagine doing that.01:48:13
You said Tinkov and Galitsky were not typical oligarchs but you are still mad they were silent.01:48:19
Of course.01:48:21
You said you would have given them a chance had they said anything.01:48:23
Let's take a look at Galitsky.01:48:25
The founder of Magnit.01:48:28
He chose to stay in his region.01:48:31
Krasnodar is a city with a lot of problems and he was trying to make this a nice city.01:48:40
He was investing in kids and football.01:48:43
He's built a new meaning of Krasnodar.01:48:49
This is football. What about his business?01:48:51
Business?01:48:53
We're talking about an oligarch, not a football fan.01:49:01
It's not about football only. He's built a park and a stadium.01:49:04
This is an investment in people and their patriotism in a good sense.01:49:11
So you think he's a collaborator, too?01:49:17
I do.01:49:18
Why?01:49:21
Because he hasn't done anything.01:49:25
Can you remind me something? We've never investigated him and I don't think we will..01:49:30
He's too far from our interest.01:49:35
Can you reming him who bought his company?01:49:39
VTB.01:49:40
And who else?01:49:42
People say he was forced to sell the company.01:49:46
He sold it under the market.01:49:51
Not only VTB but Vinokurov as well.01:49:54
Vinokurov?01:49:55
I need to google it. Vinokurov is Lavrov's son-in-law.01:49:59
He's a husband of Lavrov's daughter.01:50:01
He sold it to VTB.01:50:02
I think there was only one buyer.01:50:04
Let's google it.01:50:05
Shame on you, Yury.01:50:11
VTB bought 29% of the shares from Sergey Galitsky.01:50:17
A couple of months later they sold half of their shares to A-1 group owned by Alexander Vinokurov.01:50:22
What's your problem with Galitsky here?01:50:27
He participated in the enrichment of the minister of foreign affairs family.01:50:37
I don't want to play his advocate. I want to see your reaction.01:50:45
Galitsky sold the company to VTB.01:50:51
They say..01:50:53
He was forced to do it.01:50:54
I have some inside information from my football friends. I don't have business information.01:51:03
He was forced to sell it.01:51:05
He sold it under the market.01:51:12
What's the problem with him?01:51:14
The problem is that if he didn't stay silent and didn't escape the real problems..01:51:26
Nobody would take his company away from him.01:51:29
This is the fundamental difference. Most of the scary events would not happen hadn't they stayed silent.01:51:42
People like Galitsky, Tinkov, Friedman have an opportunity to start over.01:51:52
They are not going to get into trouble me and my colleagues get.01:51:59
A girl from Ufa isn't afraid to speak out. She's been in prison for over a year.01:52:08
You're talking about Liliya Chanysheva..01:52:09
I am. She was the head of our headquarters in Ufa.01:52:11
Mikhail Friedman, a billionaire, is afraid. Galitsky is afraid, too.01:52:23
I can't understand why Liliya isn't afraid and Sergey Galitsky is.01:52:32
Don't you think you look like those people who blame Russians who don't support this war for not starting a revolution?01:52:54
I get your question. I don't think so. These are different.01:52:59
People don't protest now because they would get wiped off immediately. This happened to many of us.
People were imprisoned, murdered, poisoned..01:53:12
The cost of protesting is too big now.01:53:17
I've never shamed anyone for not protesting during this war. Neither my colleagues did.01:53:30
We don't have enough people willing to protest now.01:53:38
The risk is too high. Oligarchs have enough resources to change something.01:53:45
The risk is different and the cost is different.01:53:50
One goes to prison for protesting..He's poor, his parents are retired..He goes to prison or gets a 300 thousand fine.01:54:01
He'd have to save for this fine.01:54:07
This is a cost of protesting in Omsk.01:54:16
What is the price for an oligarch to say that Putin is a dictator, a murderer, and a thief?01:54:32
This isn't lies. This is the truth.01:54:36
A dictator? Yes. A murderer? Yes. A thief? Sure.01:54:40
Just say it. You don't have to be so straight.01:54:43
Support the protesters. Join the protests. Post a picture.01:54:52
Write something on your Instagram. You've got nothing to lose.01:54:56
You don't need to feed a big family.01:55:01
You said that Russians can no longer protest because of the repressions, which have been building up to this point.01:55:10
This monster has been beating up people.01:55:16
Now we are here. Don't you feel like the rich were also threatened by Putin?01:55:24
He started with Khodorkovsky. This was the first signal.01:55:29
Then Ulyukaev got in prison..He was an official, not a businessman.01:55:35
Putin would show they couldn't fight him.01:55:42
What would he do to them?01:55:43
What can he do?01:55:45
He put Khodorkovsky in prison.01:55:47
He did. Everyone was shocked.01:55:50
Okay.01:55:51
Khodorkovsky lost ten years of his life being in prison.01:55:58
Friedman lives in London. They can't put him in Russian prison.01:56:02
They live in London, Cote d'Azur, or Paris, or Sardinia..01:56:13
Considering all the risks for their income..I can multiply the fines by a thousand times..01:56:27
But still..I'm not impressed by their potential losses.01:56:35
They wouldn't lose their freedom. They wouldn't lose their right to start a family. Liliya Chanysheva has lost this right.01:56:46
She's been put in prison at the age of 39.01:56:47
They would lose their money. This is their only reason to stay silent for all these years.01:56:59
Most of them are still silent. If they speak out Putin goes mad takes their business away. They lose money.01:57:09
Let's be honest with each other and our viewers.01:57:13
This is the reason. Whatever it looks like.01:57:18
Do you assume the oligarchs have been silent because they were scared?01:57:22
They were scared of losing their money.01:57:24
Losing their money or losing their money and freedom.01:57:28
Freedom, probably, too. This is possible. Let's assume this is true.01:57:37
Can you hate a person for being scared?01:57:48
Yes.01:57:50
Sometimes you can. I would never hate a person who is scared to go protesting now..01:58:02
Or scared to do things which don't seem scary from abroad.01:58:11
Sometimes I can't justify the fear.01:58:26
Am I right that you are also responsible for Popularnaya Politica (Popular Politics) YouTube channel?01:58:34
I am responsible for all the media in ACF.01:58:38
Leonid Volkov said that launching this channel cost two million euro.01:58:41
Probably.01:58:42
Don't you know?01:58:44
I have nothing to do with the money.01:58:46
Volkov manages all the money.01:58:47
Yes.01:58:48
Why do you have clickbait video titles there?01:58:52
And the thumbnails.01:58:54
Putin with horns and so on.01:58:57
We don't do these thumbnails anymore.01:59:01
We've made a rebranding and you won't see Putin with a Hitler mustache or Kabaeva with a Hitler mustache or Matvienko with a Hitler mustache..01:59:14
I'm going to miss those. I don't think these were bad.01:59:21
This is, surely, clickbait.01:59:27
We were using these titles to get more clicks on our new channel.01:59:41
As soon as we got more followers we stopped doing that.01:59:46
I like some thumbnails. These were great.01:59:52
Homeless Putin barbecuing the two-headed eagle..01:59:58
Putin as a moth, Lukashenko as a cockroach.02:00:09
Some of these thumbnails were pretty good.02:00:15
Overall, my concept is that you can make fun of the evil.02:00:26
We did the same with Putin's mansion. We would laugh at the stripper pole and the foam party.02:00:37
We made fun of Putin and his love of luxury. He likes the Louis XIV furniture..He wants to build a casino at home..02:00:50
He build a theater..I feel like we're sending a right signal when we're making fun of him.02:01:03
The majority of our viewers live in Russia.02:01:11
We're sending them a signal that you don't have to always be afraid of the evil.02:01:19
Can you attract the hesitant with this style?02:01:24
We can.02:01:27
Are you sure about that?02:01:28
I am sure it can. I'm not saying this would happen.02:01:32
I think we can.02:01:35
Nobody's going to judge us in general. This is not how YouTube works.02:01:42
When you publish a whole lot of videos, which we do..02:01:46
We're publishing 55-60 videos per week.02:01:52
YouTube algorithms show you a random video.02:02:01
We don't have a common style in our videos. Every author has his own style.02:02:17
The author asks for a certain thumbnail.02:02:19
Other shows, like a two-hour conversation about Putin's successors, have another style.02:02:28
YouTube decides what to recommend to the viewers.02:02:33
What do they show to the hesitant.02:02:36
When we offer to the hesitant as much options as we can we hope that something's going to work.02:02:42
Do you know what's the most popular video on the channel?02:02:46
I watched it yesterday..I forgot.02:02:49
Can you remind me please?02:02:50
This is a short video.02:02:53
I didn't watch the Shorts.02:02:54
This is a genre that we hated a year ago. We'd think only fourteen year old rappers would post Shorts.02:03:04
What can we do there?02:03:06
Our most popular video with 13 million views is a Short. A highlight of the Timur Ivanov investigation.02:03:16
Here's the Vice Minister of Defense Timur Ivanov.02:03:18
He's reaching to Peskov's hand..02:03:23
And hides his watch under the sleeve.02:03:25
13 million views..Tens of thousands of new subscribers.02:03:29
I guess, this video got us twenty thousand new subscribers. I saw it on the stats.02:03:36
These are the hesitant. They are the new audience.02:03:46
You never know what video would blow up.02:03:49
Putin's press-secretary wearing a bear suit or some sad video with the victims in Ukraine.02:04:05
You never know. We're trying to do everything.02:04:09
There was a live stream after the explosion of the bridge in Crimea..02:04:13
You had Viktor Baranets as a military expert there. Ivan Zhdanov called him a fat bastard.02:04:22
I'm sorry, he called him a fat asshole. This was very weird.02:04:26
What do you think about this interview?02:04:28
They had a fight. Baranets called Zhdanov and Shavetdinov jews.02:04:36
He called them Yids.02:04:40
Didn't he call them traitors?02:04:41
He called them traitors and Yids. They had a fight.02:04:45
Of course, we discussed it with our hosts after the stream.02:04:52
I don't like this kind of fights.02:04:57
I would never have one during the livestream.02:05:01
I don't like the aesthetics of a fight.02:05:03
A long time ago I've allowed the hosts to decide how they host the show.02:05:20
I can't decide that.02:05:22
When you are watching the evening show with Ruslan Shavetdinov and Leonid Volkov it means that they are responsible
for their guests and the whole conversation.02:05:37
If you are watching the show with me and Nino Rosebashvili it means that me and Nino have met in the morning..02:05:47
We went through the topics and discussed how we would host the show.02:05:50
This is how it works on our channel.
I told them I didn't like the stream.02:05:58
I could not penalize them for it.02:06:02
You cut this part out.02:06:04
We didn't.02:06:06
It is now absent from the recording.02:06:08
This is a mystery. We can't explain this.02:06:13
This part is missing from the stream. It was deleted by YouTube.02:06:19
Not by you?02:06:21
No. We held an internal investigation.02:06:24
This part was cut by YouTube.02:06:27
By American censorship.02:06:28
I guess. As Nikolay Patrushev calls this the transatlantic corporations conspiracy.02:06:34
I have no idea. We asked all the employees who did it.02:06:46
We promised not to punish anyone. Nobody confessed.02:06:48
I have no idea why this small part of a five hour stream is missing.02:06:54
It still exists separately from the stream recording.02:06:59
We did not delete it.02:07:02
Do you have any rules for your social networks accounts? What if one of your employees posts something really bad for your reputation?02:07:18
Posts where?02:07:19
On his personal account.02:07:22
Ivan Zhdanov tweeted:"There are reports of an armed SU-34 crash. I'm sorry for the victims on the ground.
I'm glad these missiles were not used against Ukrainians"02:07:34
This is not a good tweet.02:07:37
Even if you don't support the war and the Russian invasion.02:07:45
What do you think?02:07:46
Haven't you had bad tweets or bad posts?02:07:53
He deleted the tweet.02:07:54
He deleted it. I can't make him delete his tweet.02:08:05
This is his personal account. I know that he agrees this was a bad tweet.02:08:14
I'm a regular follower who happens to work with Zhdanov.02:08:21
You had one bad tweet that you deleted, too.02:08:25
Deleted?02:08:26
A tweet about Durov.02:08:29
I did.02:08:31
I called him a Dubai b***h.02:08:32
I re-wrote this tweet. I deleted the phrase "Dubai b***h".02:08:37
You called Durov a Dubai b***h. Why?02:08:41
Telegram banned our SmartVote bot.02:08:53
In the fall of 2021.02:08:54
It was a big obstacle for the Smart Vote. He helped Putin.02:09:03
I could not explain why Durov, who got fooled in Russia, who lost his company..02:09:22
Who left Russia and started over in Dubai..He's not dependent on Russia anymore. He can say whatever he wants.02:09:36
I feel like a person with so many followers has an obligation to speak out.02:09:43
He chose a cowardly strategy. He got scared of the authorities which stole his company.02:09:55
This is why I called him a Dubai b***h.
Then someone told me I offended sex workers.02:10:10
I agreed with it and deleted the tweet.02:10:14
I re-wrote it with another insult.02:10:21
Don't you think that your rudeness stops ACF from being interesting to 50 million people instead of 5 million?02:10:35
How would not calling Durov a b***h make me accessible for fifty million people?02:10:43
I know a lot of people who don't like you because you look like radicals.02:10:50
They appreciate your work but they don't like your temper.02:10:58
It is a big portion of Russian people.02:11:02
They can't stand this language.02:11:05
If some reporter or politician uses this language..You used to be a political organization.02:11:15
And you're trying to be one now. For them this language does not look serious.02:11:22
It stops them from becoming your supporters.02:11:30
You are quoting or reporter and politician friends. They think that our show is not good enough for their intellectual abilities.02:11:43
I'm quoting people I meet in my everyday life. Our kids play together.02:11:55
When I tell them how much your investigations mean.. Someone's gotta talk about corruption in Russia.02:12:06
They usually reply with their problems with Navalny.02:12:15
If these people don't belong to the titular nation, they dislike Navalny for the Russian March.02:12:17
It's an old problem. They also say that you are not using the language of politics.02:12:24
This isn't my problem. This is my friends' problem. I meet them all the time.02:12:31
These are not Facebook people and not the people from the Moscow center.02:12:37
I agree that some of our statements can be a bit harsh..However, I don't think that's a problem.02:12:49
I'm sure that most of our followers think about it differently.02:12:55
Their default reaction is "Well said. He really got him there"02:13:01
This is what they kept saying about Navalny.02:13:05
People said that someone finally told the truth about Russian politics and called Putin a thief.02:13:12
Do you remember how everyone went mad when we called the "systemic liberals" thieves?02:13:21
You got to pronounce some things aloud.02:13:27
If I need to call Venediktov a thief a hundred times to convince people..The votes thief, let's put it this way.02:13:38
He did so much to help Sobyanin and Putin.
If I need to say it a hundred times using synonyms and other insults..02:13:49
I will do it. This may seem cruel.02:13:54
It wouldn't change the fact that I'm telling the truth.02:14:00
I'm always looking after all we say in our investigations. All the allegations have to be correct..02:14:09
I'm obsessed with double-checking my information.02:14:12
I'm лnocking on all the wood in the world now..We've been working for eleven years and we've never made a big mistake.02:14:22
We've never said someone owned a house and it turned out he didn't.02:14:25
Or a yacht..02:14:28
We're very careful. We love working with facts and information.02:14:32
Our emotional way of speaking is fine for me.02:14:45
Some people wouldn't like it. It would be too much for them.02:14:49
I don't think so.02:14:52
Two short questions about it.02:14:54
Would Navalny call Durov a b***h?02:15:01
Would a British politician call anyone a b***h?02:15:06
What difference does it make? I'm not a British politician and I'm not Navalny.02:15:09
I'm a person who wrote my opinion on Twitter.02:15:14
You're a politician, too.02:15:16
I don't identify as a politician.02:15:19
Let's clarify. How do you identify?02:15:24
I'm an investigator.02:15:27
In a ..02:15:30
political organization.02:15:31
Currently I'm a media manager.02:15:35
Temporarily I'm producing films.02:15:38
Investigation are my main job. If I ever become a politician and write an election program..02:15:50
If I get involved in political life I would change my attitude a bit.02:16:00
Now everything's different.02:16:09
We're in a country where Roman Abramovich lived for many years.02:16:12
When somebody starts asking you about Abramovich, you go mad.02:16:18
You're overestimating Roman. I've got a few favorite oligarchs.02:16:23
He's definitely one of them. As well as Oleg Deripaska, Alisher Usmanov, and others..02:16:33
If we're talking about the oligarchs..02:16:35
You think that Abramovich is a master of re-inventing himself.02:16:37
Absolutely. I think he's got this memory eraser from Men in Black.02:16:43
I really think so.02:16:47
He's capable of erasing memories and re-inventing himself every time he enters a new stage of life.02:16:58
Abramovich is a key figure of Russian politics. He's become an oligarch after the privatization in the 1990's.02:17:06
He's made a fortune and became a governor.
It felt like he would stay there forever.02:17:13
He was a typical oligarch of Yeltsin's and Putin's eras.02:17:16
He's become a Putin's tool. He's made a lot of money in exchange for not being involved in politics..02:17:27
not sponsoring political parties..He only sponsored what Putin told him to sponsor.02:17:33
Like his mansion in Gelendzhik.02:17:35
This was his image before early 2000's.02:17:39
Can you clarify: did he sponsor the Gelendzhik mansion?02:17:42
He did.02:17:43
Then he moved to London. He was the governor of Chukotka.02:17:49
I can't believe this..He bought Chelsea FC.02:17:57
I thought this was a weird decision when he did it.
Buying football clubs wasn't a thing yet.02:18:09
And then I realized everything.02:18:13
In a couple of years after buying the club and investing millions..02:18:25
I'm not a big expert in football.02:18:31
They won a couple of trophies they had never won before.02:18:38
There was a personality cult here.02:18:42
They forgot he was a Putin's oligarch and a governor.02:18:49
He became Roman Abramovich, the Chelsea owner.02:18:54
He bought this position.02:18:58
I must admit that he is a genius for buying Chelsea.02:19:03
Nobody has been able to recover so well as he did.02:19:13
Here he was surrounded by the British elites.02:19:23
He would invite him to his box. The fans would have "The Roman Empire" posters.02:19:35
It's a pun.02:19:36
About the Roman Empire.02:19:37
I've written a thread on Twitter recently..02:19:44
A couple of months ago.02:19:46
English fans still defend him on Twitter.
"How dare you, Maria! He's done so much for English football"02:19:57
I talked to them and showed the Putin's mansion.02:20:01
I showed them how people in Russian province live.02:20:07
I told them about the mobilization and the war.02:20:10
I said:"Imagine they send you to a war where you don't want to fight. And then you step on a mine and die"02:20:19
"But we've won the UEFA Cup"02:20:24
The Champions League. And a couple Premier League titles.02:20:28
His next re-inventing was in Russian culture.02:20:32
Definitely, culture.02:20:33
Phenomenal success.02:20:35
And now he's involved in the negotiations with Ukraine.02:20:41
He is.02:20:42
I need to say it seems like I took part in his cultural stage.02:20:51
I worked in the Pro Sport magazine for many years.02:20:54
This magazine was owned by Roman Abramovich.02:20:57
I need to make it clear.02:20:58
I didn't know that.02:20:59
This was before 2011.02:21:02
I need to say this. Don't you think he understands everything you say and wants to compensate by investing in culture?02:21:17
He knows he can't go back and fix everything. He can't distance himself from Putin.02:21:25
This would be his way to help people around him.02:21:30
This is not what I think. I don't think so. I'm just trying to make you answer your adamancy.02:21:39
I've heard this opinion many times.02:21:42
I don't believe it.02:21:46
What is it then?02:21:49
Why does he sponsor cinematography?02:21:53
He sponsored some really great movies.02:21:57
The answer is clear. I want to the Cannes this year.02:22:00
Kirill Serebrennikov was there, too.02:22:02
He would perform there.02:22:04
He had to ask everyone to lift sanctions on Abramovich.02:22:18
I feel like nobody understood what the hell was going on.02:22:28
How could it be possible? He spent his time on asking for Abramovich.02:22:36
I'm glad it happened. I know how to answer these questions now.02:22:44
We saw the reverse side of this coin.02:22:47
Every deal has a reverse side.02:22:50
You'd have to do something unpleasant in the most inappropriate moment. You'd have to protect Abramovich during the war. 02:22:56
Don't you think this was Serebrennikov's will?02:23:00
No..02:23:03
He wanted to thank Abramovich.02:23:05
Exactly. This is the plot.02:23:09
People feel like they owe Abramovich everything.02:23:13
Even if he didn't ask for anything back.02:23:19
This is about the status, the reputation.02:23:24
Abramovich wants you to mention him in the interview.02:23:28
He wants me to talk about it when I make my investigations.02:23:32
He wants his position to be..02:23:36
What did I mention?02:23:37
I said there was a conflict of interest because I used to work for him.02:23:39
He wants us to say he's a philanthrope. He sponsors Russian arts, and the ballet, and the Garazh gallery..02:23:45
We can't ignore this.02:23:49
This is the trick.02:23:51
What if there's no trick? What if he trying to do something good?02:23:56
He knows that his connection to Putin and FSB can't be cut with an axe..02:24:05
He's sending out signals.02:24:08
He loves this rope you've just cut.02:24:11
He's still connected to Putin. We'll talk about that later.02:24:13
We're talking about reputation management.02:24:17
There are many companies here in London that would do that..02:24:20
I can imagine.02:24:22
This is what most of the oligarchs do. They sponsor a museum.02:24:31
A famous museum. Tate Modern, for example.02:24:34
This is a famous museum which you would go to on your first visit to London.02:24:41
It is sponsored by Vekselberg and Mikhelson.02:24:46
Mikhelson is the guy from Novatek who paid for Medvedev's Ples mansion.02:24:50
This is the trick. One hand bribes Medvedev and another sponsors incredible exhibitions in Tate.02:25:01
This is what they all do. Potanin is a great example of that.02:25:04
He used to sponsor The Guggenheim Museum in New York City.02:25:09
He also sponsored the Kennedy Center in Washington DC.02:25:17
He's paying a fairly small amount for him..It's about 2-5 million dollars.02:25:27
He makes this amount every day. I'm exaggerating but you get the idea.02:25:33
For this amount of money you get your name written at the entrance of the Kennedy Center.02:25:43
Everyone can go and check it out. Among all the sponsors you can find Vladimir Potanin.02:25:52
He gets the access to all the events. You open the Russian hall in the Kennedy Center.02:26:00
Potanin recaptured his investment in Guggenheim very well.02:26:06
In the early 2000's there was an exhibition called Rossiya!02:26:11
Guess who came to open this exhibition?02:26:19
Vladimir Putin?02:26:21
Putin! Exactly. Potanin spent a little amount of money to get what they call the soft power.02:26:32
Putin performing in a great museum in New York.02:26:42
There is a Rossiya! sign behind his back.02:26:47
You get an opportunity to do such things.02:26:51
This is reputation management.02:26:59
This is how they re-invent themselves.02:27:04
This is where we get university wings named after sponsors. Libraries named after sponsors, research centers, too.02:27:11
This is what philanthropes do.02:27:15
Abramovich brought it to a whole new level.02:27:19
Gaddafi sponsoring LSE is another example of that.02:27:27
Why do you think is Ukraine fine with Abramovich as a negotiator?02:27:34
All because of his memory eraser.02:27:41
Do you thinks Ukrainians are wrong?02:27:43
They are wrong. They are playing with fire.02:27:51
He's never been their ally and he would never be one.02:27:57
The fact that Abramovich is allowed to negotiated from Russian side leaves a mark on his name.02:28:08
There's a simple rule. If Putin like something, we don't like it.02:28:14
This is bad. We don't want this.02:28:18
Putin likes Abramovich as a negotiator.02:28:21
We all were watching this drama. He would walk around Turkey and Ukraine..02:28:28
Was he poisoned? Was he in danger?02:28:36
All I see is a slight liberalization in Putin's negotiators.02:28:48
He's not sending Patrushev or Bortnikov. He's sending Abramovich.02:28:51
Is there any difference? If he's authorized by Putin, he's not one of us.02:28:58
I'm sure about that.02:28:59
Do you think you can judge Ukraine from London while they are being hit by missiles?02:29:09
Can I judge Ukraine for asking to lift sanctions on Abramovich?02:29:12
They are looking for ways to stop this war.02:29:19
The negotiation process is over. I can talk about it now. If I'm wrong I can apologize.02:29:26
This negotiation process is over now. Ukraine is not coming back to it.02:29:35
They've said there would be no negotiations before their territory is liberated.02:29:42
This is inappropriate for Putin, hence, there would be no negotiations for a while.02:29:53
A crazy fantasy. A fantasy.02:29:55
If Abramovich helped to reach an agreement and withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine..02:30:08
Would you leave it all behind?02:30:13
I'm sick of this negotiations conversation.02:30:18
Wait. I'm not talking about the negotiations. I'm talking about the withdrawal of Russian troops.02:30:24
Russian needs to leave Ukraine for this war to end.02:30:29
This is what I'm saying.02:30:33
If there's a miracle and Abramovich ends this war..We wake up and Ukraine is no longer being bombed..02:30:44
And if they send Putin to court..This would be enough for me to leave it all behind.02:30:49
There are actions that can redeem the past.02:30:56
There are.02:30:57
These actions should be comparable to your sins.02:31:01
Is there anything Putin can do to redeem the past?02:31:08
Now?02:31:11
Now.02:31:13
Almost a year after the war began.02:31:15
Putin is a war criminal now. This is a new status.02:31:19
The consequences are much worse in this case.02:31:23
I don't think he can legally escape. If he decides to shoot himself now some people would forgive him.02:31:32
I wouldn't.02:31:38
The 6000 list.02:31:39
Yes.02:31:40
ACF made a list of 6000 people who support Putin's regime.02:31:47
We did. What's the purpose of this list?02:31:50
There are 7000 people on the 6000 list now.02:31:54
We haven't renamed it yet.02:31:57
What's the purpose of the list?02:32:00
Do they introduce sanctions based on this list?02:32:02
Of course, they do. Of course, they do.02:32:04
This is the main purpose of the list. We know that it's being used by people who introduce sanctions.02:32:11
I'm not saying that they are only using our list.02:32:21
Although we urge them to introduce sanctions on the whole list..02:32:26
The whole list?02:32:27
Yes. Sanction 7000 people.02:32:31
And 7000 more a week later.02:32:35
Only the inevitability can make these sanctions effective.02:32:40
The fact that this list exists reminds European, US, Canadian and Japanese officials that they need to hurry.02:32:56
There is a lot of work that needs to be done. They hardly ever put sanctions on the propagandist before this war.02:33:06
Nobody was willing to do it. They were mad at me for asking to introduce sanctions on Soloviev.02:33:17
They said he was just a reporter. Everyone should have a right to have an opinion.02:33:19
He's just sharing some other opinion.02:33:23
When the war started they arrested his four villas..02:33:27
Two..02:33:28
Four, Yura.02:33:29
He's got four villas on Como?02:33:31
Yes.02:33:32
Not two?02:33:33
He's got flats.02:33:34
And two villas.02:33:36
We've got to ask Nizovtsev. He inspected these objects recently.02:33:44
He's got a big villa at the lake. There's his mother's villa in the mountains.02:33:48
And they've bought something else a couple of months before the war.02:33:52
I haven't seen those flats personally. This was an unlucky investment by him.02:33:59
I would like to ask you about three names from the list.02:34:01
Okay. You can ask me about any names but I've got to say I have nothing to do with this list.02:34:10
Who made the list?02:34:11
Our lawyers and some other members of the team.02:34:20
And Leonid Volkov?02:34:21
Volkov is one of them, too.02:34:24
Are you involved?02:34:25
I'm not.02:34:26
They didn't let me participate.02:34:28
Really?02:34:29
I'm too radical.02:34:31
I wanted to introduce sanctions on everybody.02:34:36
I wanted to sanction all the oligarchs, their families, their lawyers, everyone who helped them open bank accounts..02:34:50
They are all to blame.02:34:52
It all needs to be assessed thoroughly. There should be a mechanism of making decisions about putting people on the list.02:35:07
They didn't let me take part because I was too radical.02:35:10
You're still comment on the list because you mostly agree with it.02:35:17
Ksenia Sobchak.02:35:19
Yes. Why is she on the list?02:35:20
She assisted Putin at the presidential elections. She played a puppet taking the attention away from Navalny.02:35:32
She's on the list for being a spoiler.02:35:34
She is.02:35:35
Alexei Venediktov.02:35:36
Why is he on the list?02:35:38
He's stealing votes.02:35:40
He promoted online voting in 2021.02:35:44
Exactly. Alexei Venediktov might be a brilliant reporter or a great media manager.02:35:51
He might be admired by many people for his job.02:35:59
For his job at Ekho Moskvy.02:36:01
All of his achievements can't cancel the fact that he took part in the biggest electoral falsification of the recent period.02:36:12
He promoted the online voting that changed the results. Let's be clear about it.02:36:24
The online voting took away eight opposition winners in Moscow. Including Mikhail Lobanov who won at the offline elections in district 197.02:36:45
He won the elections. And the results got overturned overnight. Popov defeated him.02:37:01
Because of this online voting Popov is sitting in the Duma instead of a great mathematician Lobanov.02:37:11
Lobanov is now arrested for two weeks. This is Venediktov's fault.02:37:25
Lobanov would be a deputy if it wasn't for the online voting. Now Lobanov is in prison and filthy propagandist Popov..02:37:42
Who is a rude and ugly person..He insulted me on Twitter..02:37:48
He's now a representative.02:37:53
Popov is now a lawmaker.02:37:56
I can't be calm about it. How can you not blame Venediktov.02:38:05
This is only one example. There were eight districts where the results were overturned.02:38:12
Online voting was promoted by Venediktov. He put his reputation on the line to protect it.02:38:24
I've seen his stream recently. Do you know what he said there?02:38:29
He said:"Yes, online voting might have been falsified. There is no proof, however."02:38:37
"Are there any criminal cases? There are none. It means there was no falsification"02:38:41
Venediktov is a member of Putin's elite.02:38:46
You can't look at it any other way.02:38:49
Online voting let Putin's candidates win.02:38:59
He's working for Sobyanin. I'm sure he's getting paid to do so.02:39:04
This is how Sobyanin's group is getting ready for replacing Putin.02:39:14
This is what Venediktov is doing.02:39:17
This is why he's on the list. Not because of Ekho Moskvy.02:39:19
Not because they some crooks on their radio.02:39:23
We don't care about that in ACF. We don't care about his radio station.02:39:30
We care about the elections. He's stealing votes.02:39:33
I'll try to defend him.02:39:35
Go on.02:39:36
I agree that online voting sucks.02:39:42
But. Imagine that Russia, where he lives now..You're blaming him for something he did before the war.02:39:59
Online voting was before the war, sure.02:40:00
Venediktov runs the biggest opposition media in the country.02:40:07
Opposition?02:40:08
Opposition media. Ekho Moskvy was the biggest opposition media.02:40:12
They would get offended by your words.02:40:16
They were the biggest media that would have opposition members on their shows.02:40:20
They would have officials, too. There were lots of opposition members on this radio.02:40:24
This is his contribution to hip-hop.02:40:29
I mean, Russia.02:40:31
He needs to make a deal to have his radio.02:40:36
He has to do something disgusting to save his radio.02:40:45
Doesn't this compensate for his mean deal?02:40:50
He's been doing this for many years.02:40:52
This isn't my opinion.02:40:55
I'm trying to defend him.02:40:57
There is a war going on. Thousands of people are dying.02:41:05
We can't be relatively moral.02:41:09
This is a trap. Don't look for excuses for obviously silly decisions.02:41:19
It's all the same for me. Venediktov was saving his radio and he had to promote online voting.02:41:29
Chulpan Khamatova was saving kids and she had to promote Putin. She would talk about North Korea.02:41:38
There was Nuta Federmesser, there was dr.Liza..02:41:40
They were doing something bad for their country. They were forgiven because they were also doing something very important.02:41:56
I urge everyone to leave this model behind.02:42:00
It doesn't work anymore.02:42:02
We can feel sorry for Chulpan Khamatova. She's the best example.02:42:10
She saved thousands of kids from dying. They wouldn't have survived without her.02:42:19
She had to compromise. I'm a nobody. I cannot judge her.02:42:30
Let's admit that people like Chulpan and Nuta and Venediktov helped Putin build a dictatorship.02:42:49
He would be climbing this hill with their help.02:42:56
Chulpan first, then Nuta, then dr.Liza.02:43:01
They were all defending him saying that North Korea is better than a revolution.02:43:08
There were his confidants. They participated in rigged elections.02:43:12
All these artists who were saving their theaters..Reporters saving their newspaper..02:43:20
This was all a bad idea. Can we admit it now?02:43:25
Can we say they were wrong?02:43:28
Navalny was right when he said they were wrong.02:43:39
I don't think that Alexei Venediktov promotes online voting to save his radio station.02:43:51
I think he gets paid for this promotion.02:44:00
Why is Oleg Kashin in the list?02:44:03
I have no idea.02:44:04
I guess, he promoted the war.02:44:06
He's there among the propagandists.02:44:10
As far as I know he supports the Russian World on his Telegram channel.02:44:14
I feel awkward because I don't read his channel.02:44:20
Oleg Kashin is against the war. He's been against this war for a while. He admits this war is a catastrophe.02:44:28
He's been open about it.02:44:31
However, Oleg Kashin has been hating ACF for a long time.02:44:34
I don't read his Telegram. I don't know what he says about the war.02:44:42
We'll need to look for this information. I don't know anything about him.02:44:50
I don't have enough information to judge him. I don't read him and don't recommend anyone doing that.02:44:57
What if somebody supported Putin before February 24 and then he changed his mind?02:45:09
He realized this was a disaster. He has announced that he doesn't support this war.02:45:18
Do you think that's possible?02:45:20
I think you can't support Putin until February 24 and then change your mind.02:45:25
I think people who could change their mind did it long time ago.02:45:29
If you know any examples, go ahead.02:45:31
Oleg Tinkov.02:45:33
He wasn't supporting Putin.02:45:35
He wasn't. He was calling him a tsar, though.02:45:38
And so on.02:45:41
I don't think he supported Putin. They didn't let me make the 6000 list.02:45:46
He was fooling around.02:45:53
Let's imagine a person that used to support Putin.02:46:00
Not a crazy fan, just a supporter.02:46:01
After February 24 he changes his mind. Does he get in the list?02:46:05
He doesn't.02:46:09
He can also get excluded from the list.02:46:11
Tell me more.02:46:12
There is a mechanism of being excluded from it.02:46:13
There is a way to enter the list and to exit the list.02:46:16
In a file where we announce the new names in the list we announce the deleted names.02:46:22
Most of them gets deleted after they die.02:46:28
There is another way to be excluded from the list. You need to make an anti-war statement.02:46:34
Face recognition system creators contacted Volkov after getting in the list. They made an anti-war statement and got excluded.02:46:44
There was a scandal and they were put back on the list.02:46:47
What the hell?02:46:48
I guess, they were removed from the list by mistake. I would disagree with this decision.02:46:58
They are arresting people in Moscow to prevent them from participating in protests. They arrest people who would potentially join the protests using this system.02:47:11
I'm sure they would use these cameras to mobilize more men soon.02:47:22
I don't understand why they were removed from the list.02:47:25
I feel like somebody made a mistake. Somebody wasn't cautious enough.02:47:34
We didn't double-check and we had to fix this mistake. I'm glad we did it.02:47:46
These people should be on the list.02:47:48
So you suppose these people don't get a chance to be removed.02:47:52
They don't. I'm so mad at them..02:48:02
I guess, there is a chance. They'd need to do something big. I only need one thing from these collaborators.02:48:25
I need their testimony.02:48:27
When they bring me and the investigation department their papers and their invoices..02:48:42
Their stories about bribing the officials..02:48:46
Their stories about the kickbacks they paid in Moscow..02:48:53
Then we would talk to them. This is an active remorse.02:48:57
Would they get amnesty for that?02:49:01
On what level?02:49:02
The 6000 list is a recommendation. This is not an official document.02:49:10
They bring you their testimony. They tell you the truth about working for the Moscow city office.02:49:20
They bring you the documents.02:49:23
How does it work from there?02:49:25
Yes. It has never happened before. I'm thinking of a hypothetical situation.02:49:31
I would go through these documents. We would double-check these.02:49:34
We would go through two or three sources to validate the information.02:49:41
If it's validated I would go to the 6000 list group meeting and tell them we need to remove this person from the list.02:49:56
I would ask them to remove the person for the active remorse.02:50:01
And the anti-war statement.02:50:03
I hope everyone would support my suggestion.02:50:08
It sounds like an unofficial Investigative Committee.02:50:13
We're not putting anyone in prison. We can't introduce any sanctions.02:50:19
We can only recommend others to do so.02:50:23
This is why you can't say that ACF is now a punitive body. We only recommend other bodies..02:50:35
I don't think we would ever introduce these sanctions. None of us would ever become a European official.02:50:46
We are lobbying. This is different from lawmaking.02:50:53
People are being too aggressive towards us.02:51:02
Your dad in an entrepreneur.02:51:03
Huh.02:51:04
If I'm not mistaken one of his co-owners is Zelenograd Center of Nano-Technologies JSC which received billions from government orders.02:51:19
Your dad works in this business.02:51:21
Probably..02:51:23
As far as I know, he isn't a public person. He doesn't make any political statements.02:51:30
He doesn't.02:51:31
Is he a collaborator of Putin's regime?02:51:32
Should he get sanctioned, too?02:51:35
Sanctioned? He shouldn't. He's not an official or a propagandist.02:51:43
We don't put in this list anyone who lives in Moscow.02:51:47
Is he a collaborator?02:51:49
I don't know anything about his work for the last fifteen years.02:51:56
I wanted to look it up before this interview and then I thought this would be unfair.02:52:05
I don't know what he's been doing. Looking it up before the interview would be unfair.02:52:10
It's probably easier for me not to know what he's doing. This might explain why we're not in touch anymore.02:52:21
Can you explain?02:52:24
What do you mean?02:52:26
I mean his..02:52:27
Government orders?02:52:29
His work.02:52:30
You're not in touch for fifteen years.02:52:32
There's no specific date..02:52:37
Why?02:52:38
This is much more sad than mysterious.02:52:48
The propagandists called this mysterious.02:52:52
I can't accept his views on how we live our lives.02:53:06
We tried to get in touch again but we failed. I don't think we can fix this.02:53:14
Does he support the government?02:53:16
It's worse. Worse. He says it's not as clear.02:53:23
You're talking about his views. He likes Putin.02:53:26
I don't know that. Do you realize how toxic is that?02:53:31
I don't want to look like Andrey Malakhov. This topic always makes me uncomfortable.02:53:39
I've got nothing to hide here, really.02:53:40
I didn't get it. What was the problem when you tried to get in touch with him again?02:53:50
This is hard to explain. There are many problems.02:53:54
This is not about politics only. Politics also plays a bit part here.02:53:59
My parents broke up about twenty years ago.02:54:04
Their divorce was ugly. It traumatized me too much to stay in touch with him.02:54:18
I shouldn't say this in front of a big audience..My childhood and youth were almost perfect.02:54:42
My parents managed to give me everything they could and even more.02:54:58
When I think about the relationship with my dad I draw a line that divides my childhood, which was the best childhood ever..02:55:13
from what happened after that.02:55:19
I'm thankful for the first part. I owe him a lot.02:55:24
And then there's a "but". I'm not proud of it. This is painful for me.02:55:34
Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it. I don't know where he's at and what he does.02:55:46
I don't know anything.02:55:49
What is the organizational structure of ACF?02:55:52
Before Navalny got arrested we agreed on how we would replace him.02:56:00
Before he flew to Moscow?02:56:01
Yes, we spent a couple of days in Berlin drawing diagrams with possible scenarios.02:56:08
How long he is absent, can we talk to him or not..All the scenarios..02:56:14
Like a block diagram?02:56:16
Yes, a real block diagram for every scenario.02:56:19
Here is how it works now. We divided all the work into three directions.02:56:27
Leonid Volkov is responsible for all the political work.02:56:32
I am responsible for all the media and the investigation work.02:56:40
The administrative work, salaries and equipment is managed by Ivan Zhdanov.02:56:51
It feels like this scheme is sustainable.02:56:57
It's been two years since Navalny got arrested. We haven't killed each other yet..
ACF has managed to survive the extremist status and built new studios..02:57:14
It works, I guess.02:57:17
There are some issues with sustainability. The list of your supporters got leaked in 2021.02:57:25
Were there two leaks or one?02:57:28
We know there was one leak in the spring of 2021..They said there was a leak of your sponsors in the fall of 2021.02:57:37
Yes, there was. These two leaks are absolutely not the same.02:57:42
I'll tell you about both of them.02:57:45
The first leak happened in the spring of 2021.02:57:49
This is a sad story that we're ashamed of. We're still trying to fix that.02:57:59
There was a leak of everyone who registered for the Smart Vote.02:58:05
Name, Surname, email address..We would store this data not in the best way possible, obviously.02:58:17
One of our ex-employees still had his password from the cloud and he downloaded all the data.02:58:26
He published all the data online. We did an investigation about this leak just like we do all of our investigations.02:58:38
We checked the billings, we checked the flights..We did a full investigation.02:58:46
This ex-employee did it for an unknown reason. It seems that he didn't have the way he left the company..02:58:54
Then he would get interrogated at the Investigative Committee and he recorded the interrogations on his Apple Watch.02:59:12
I recommend everyone to watch this video. We did an interview him where he told how the Investigative Committee falsified the extremism allegations.02:59:25
He tried to recover from what he did to us.02:59:30
What happened in the fall?02:59:31
This is a different case. We have nothing to do with this leak.02:59:38
They realized that leaking our supporters was a sensitive topic.
We weren't careful in the first case but the second case happened before the elections and was made to blame us.03:00:04
Someone leaked a list of 70 thousand names. This was a quite a long list.03:00:15
A list of all the people who had ever donated to ACF.03:00:18
We don't store this kind of data. I guess, this is the data from RosFinMonitoring or one of the banks.03:00:28
They leaked the archive of all the transactions to our entity.03:00:31
We were a legal entity for ten years. I guess we've had over a hundred thousand sponsors..03:00:45
Seventy thousand people got on this list.03:00:48
We're not the source of the leak. These are the special forces, RosFinMonitoring, banking watchdogs..03:00:57
They published all the transactions with ACF. They also added some information to the list.03:01:05
You'd see home address column in the list. We would never collect this data for donations.03:01:19
We only need a card number, the name and the email.03:01:23
They added data from government services and published it to threaten people.03:01:35
They wanted to show that sponsoring ACF wasn't safe. They pretended this was another leak form our side.03:01:42
This is false, however.03:01:46
Based on the first leak..You're now opening new headquarters.
What's your guarantee that data would not be leaked again?03:02:04
We've done our homework. I can't describe how careful we are now.03:02:18
This leak has hit us so hard..We hope it would never happen again.03:02:26
We've analyzed all the weak points and decided not to collect any data for our new headquarters.03:02:36
Even the names. And the emails.03:02:38
Nothing. If we don't have this data nobody can steal it from us.03:02:45
You can only register in the new headquarter if you use VPN and Tor browser. You'd use a new email address to register..03:03:01
Okay.03:03:03
Your login and password would be your only credentials in the system.03:03:12
You lose it and you lose the access.03:03:16
You'd have to register one more time. We're not collecting any data.03:03:21
Besides technical measures like VPN and Tor we're not collecting any data to keep everyone safe.03:03:33
The price of supporting ACF during the war has increased even more.03:03:39
What's the purpose of the new headquarters?03:03:42
We will try to make these headquarters the centers of regional politics as we did before.03:03:52
We're trying to build back what we lost. No other political party has this kind of network.03:04:05
There are many Edinaya Rossiya headquarters across the country along with their youth organization..03:04:16
If you don't want to join their organization there's nowhere you can go to.03:04:25
There's no alternative. Our headquarters would attract the youth.03:04:32
We would organize the protests from there..We would do all the protests at the same time in all the cities.03:04:43
We had a headquarter in every city. Our coordinator would organize everything..The stage and the route..03:04:59
They would create a webpage of the event.
We want to keep this feature even if we have to do it underground. It makes us different.03:05:10
We're able to unite people.03:05:13
People would choose their form of political actions in their cities.03:05:22
They would design leaflets..Imagine we have a designer in Krasnodar region.03:05:32
They send everyone the leaflet and tell them to print it.03:05:34
Print this leaflet and hang it in the elevator.03:05:37
ACF posted a manual about the headquarters.03:05:42
In paragraph five they said:"Complete your task on fighting Putin and get bonus points and a new task"03:05:50
It looks like a video game.03:05:53
This is a game based on what I've just told you about the leaflets.03:05:59
This is a game, I guess.03:06:02
These would be the tasks.03:06:05
It looks a bit weird. The description is pretty weird.03:06:09
Probably.03:06:10
Can this help to fight Putin?03:06:12
Can a leaflet in the elevator help to fight Putin?03:06:18
Yes.03:06:19
It can. That's the point.03:06:23
A single leaflet matters a lot for protesting.03:06:33
Every person matters.03:06:36
Sometimes protests work differently.03:06:40
When the suffragettes were fighting for freedom here in Great Britain they would smash windows and tie themselves to the fence.03:06:48
They would throw bombs at the mail office. They would jump at the horse at the races.03:06:53
Sometimes this is how the protests work.03:06:55
Nowadays women have equal voting rights.03:06:59
People do what is most comfortable for them in their circumstances.03:07:04
We're not going to urge anyone to burn a draft board.03:07:14
This is wrong. Especially in our position when..03:07:19
We are abroad.03:07:21
We're working from abroad.03:07:22
We're trying to keep our moral levels.03:07:28
If a person wishes to do something more radical, this must be his choice, not ours.03:07:44
Not Navalny's or someone else's choice.03:07:47
This is a personal choice.03:07:53
There's a man called Rostislav Murzagulov who works in Khodorkovsky's team now.03:07:59
He used to be an advisor of the head of Bashkortostan. He didn't support the war and left the country.03:08:06
You called him an arrogant crook who's been serving Putin's authorities for all his life. Now he works for Khodorkovsky.03:08:17
You said you couldn't work with Khodorkovsky while he had these people on his team.03:08:23
The fact the he left and spoke against the war didn't change your attitude.03:08:27
It didn't.03:08:29
Why would anyone hire him? Why would they ignore the context.03:08:39
He changed his mind one and would do it one more time.03:08:44
I don't think these people are worth dealing with.03:08:47
This is all I wanted to say.03:08:49
I'm sorry that Liliya Chanysheva is in prison. This is very unfair, I want her to get out of there.03:09:01
Murzagulov used to work in the local government..03:09:07
When they destroyed our headquarter.03:09:11
They destroyed the beginnings of politics in this difficult region.03:09:14
Yes. I have no idea if Murzagulov was sincere when he changed his mind..03:09:21
It's possible that he wasn't sincere..03:09:24
Can you build a perfect Russia if you don't offer the collaborators a way out?03:09:41
You need to motivate them to change their mind.03:09:47
You would want them to join your side.03:09:55
This is why I keep saying that the sanction lists should be updated.03:10:00
They should introduce a mechanism of being removed from the list.03:10:07
I support this idea..03:10:09
Are you talking about the official sanctions..03:10:11
I'm talking about the principle. If you get in the list for collaborating with the regime it doesn't mean you can't be removed from the list.03:10:20
I don't like saying it..I must admit that the sanctions are working after ten months of the war. There is something wrong with the design.03:10:31
We need to do something to improve this mechanism.03:10:39
We need to reach the main goal: a total collapse of Putin's regime.03:10:47
I won't deny that there has to be a mechanism of a way out for those working for Putin now.03:11:02
This should be similar to an active remorse.03:11:11
Giving testimony..Describing what this person did.03:11:20
I don't think we should ignore the past. People who worked for the regime in 2018, 2019, 2020 aren't similar to those who did it fifteen years earlier.03:11:38
The context has changed dramatically.03:11:40
I draw this line at the "castling". We could about what happened before it..But after it..03:11:52
Anyone..Kudrin, Gref, Nabiullina..03:11:59
I can give you an example.03:12:01
This is all false. They're telling us these are liberals who are changing the system from inside..03:12:08
In fact they are typical Putin's crooks.03:12:10
Let's think of one case. How would this mechanism work?03:12:19
Imagine German Gref doesn't want to be associated with Putin anymore.03:12:25
Was he put under sanctions?03:12:28
I think he was.03:12:29
He wants to make a statement that he stands against the war. He wants to be able to travel around the world..03:12:38
Fly to Baden Baden and be open to this wonderful world.03:12:45
What should he do?03:12:46
He should make this statement. He should say that he would never work for Putin's regime again..03:12:56
Because this regime has started this war. Then he should do his best to show the regret.03:13:11
In Gref's case this is so easy. He's one of the most integrated people in corruption.03:13:21
He knows so much about everything..03:13:26
Working with the oligarchs. Who sponsors who, how Sberbank operates..Sberbank is a crucial gear of Putin's regime.03:13:37
Where would he come with this information?03:13:39
He can come wherever he wants. He can do it in the Financial Times. He can do it in my favorite website called Project.03:13:50
They've made a great investigation about him.03:13:53
About Baden Baden. He likes visiting this place.03:13:56
I recommend him to talk to Roman Badanin or Mikhail Rubin.03:14:05
German Gref can come outside in Baden Baden and tell everyone the truth.
He could perform at the local philharmonic that he enjoys, too.03:14:16
I don't care where he does this. I don't need anything form him.03:14:24
I need tools that would help us to get rid of this goddamn Putin.03:14:31
I don't need anything else.03:14:35
You'd say the same stuff you said about Murzagulov.03:14:38
Would he be upset that Maria Pevchikh said something rude on Twitter?03:14:43
I think he can deal with this trauma.03:14:48
I would definitely write something. Yura, this is Twitter. We're talking about Twitter.03:14:55
Twitter is your tribune now.03:15:00
This is just an opinion. Dunya Smirnova has another opinion.03:15:07
She would say that these people are the intellectual elite. They help move Russia forward..03:15:15
And we, the scums, must worship their great minds.03:15:25
Some people like Gref. And Kudrin. And Chubais. And someone else.03:15:30
However, they need to put up with the fact that some people would always hate them for what they've done.03:15:40
I guess, the number of these people would increase.03:15:44
It happens. These are the consequences of decisions they've made.03:15:51
I've been talking to you as a politician and you've been telling me you are not a politician.03:16:01
This is controversial..Do you see yourself as a politician in the future?03:16:07
When you wouldn't have to disagree that you're a politician?03:16:10
What do you mean by a politician?03:16:12
A person who is participates in the elections or works with someone who does.03:16:16
I won't participate in the elections. It's not my thing.03:16:20
Working for a politician - yes.03:16:24
This is possible if there are opportunities for that.03:16:30
I don't have a choice. When the Beautiful Russia of the Future happens I can't leave and write my memoirs and surf. 03:16:43
This would be unfair. I wouldn't do that.03:16:47
I'd have to do what we've wanted to do for so many years.03:16:55
I hope I would be qualified enough to do it. I'd have the necessary skills to play an important role in building the beautiful Russia.03:17:09
Like what?03:17:10
Let's think of this job.03:17:12
If you are offered to work in lustration department or the ministry of lustration..03:17:16
This is not interesting for me. I think this is something the judicial branch would do.03:17:26
How would lustration work? They would need to write a good law that wasn't written in the 1990's and this was a huge mistake.03:17:34
They would have to think of a principle of lustration. Who would get punished and how.03:17:44
This is a lawmaking and judicial work. This is not my thing.03:17:50
What would you do then?03:17:51
I would do something related to the investigations.03:17:53
I keep telling everyone that the main lesson I've learnt so far is that you've got to do what you love and what you're good at.03:18:08
I have to say that my favorite job is conducting investigations.03:18:17
I could only dream of having tools to do something more than publish my investigations on YouTube with the memes and funny pictures..03:18:35
I would conduct official investigations with full access to information..03:18:41
Being able to conduct the interrogation and request the documents.03:18:45
Being able to prove somebody committed a crime.03:18:48
And then the court would decide the penalty.03:18:58
We need to provide the inevitability of the penalty.03:19:08
This is how corruption can be defeated.03:19:11
I could succeed at this if I could choose where to work.03:19:20
The Investigative Committee in the Beautiful Russian of the Future.03:19:24
The Investigative Committee or the Prosecutor's office. Whatever. I don't care about the label.03:19:32
You're placing me next to Bastrykin when you say the Investigative Committee. I don't to be standing next to him.03:19:38
I've explained what I would do. I don't care how this would be called.03:19:44
Does ACF have a plan for the future Russia?03:19:50
Can you clarify the circumstances of this future? The next week, the next year, or when Navalny is a president..03:19:58
What plan do you have?03:19:59
You're a political organization. Probably, the most influential political organization in Russia.03:20:06
Even though you're in exile. I'm a voter and I could potentially vote for you.03:20:17
I've been following you for a while. If you participated in the elections I would look at you more carefully..03:20:23
I'm sending my request to you. How do you see the future of my country?03:20:32
When Putin's gone or while he's still here?03:20:34
I think you should have a few plans if you're a serious organization.03:20:41
For both cases you mentioned.03:20:45
We're doing our best to reach one goal. We're doing all we can to break Putin.03:20:58
The war has been happening for eleven months already. Putin's been reigning for 23 years already.03:21:11
This sounds scary. I only have one goal.03:21:17
I need to get rid of this mean and disgusting president.03:21:24
There is nothing more important than that now.03:21:27
I don't think..I would say for the whole ACF..We don't believe things would get worse after Putin's gone.03:21:42
I think in 2023 we can agree it can't get worse than Putin.03:21:49
Our main goal now is to get rid of Putin. The war must stop.03:22:00
And then we would have a new plan which would be even more difficult than our current plan.03:22:03
This plan is scary, we need to be ready for it. There would be chaos when Putin's gone. There would be bulldogs fighting under the carpet.03:22:15
Everyone would fight everyone and we would have to win. I believe that we can do it.03:22:23
Otherwise there is no point..03:22:27
How can you win? 03:22:31
We would need fair elections.03:22:34
We really need fair elections.03:22:35
We're not asking for much.03:22:38
We would do the rest.03:22:40
Anyone - from Alexey Navalny to any ACF employee who is eligible to be elected locally..03:22:56
I believe in our candidates. I believe that Navalny's ideas and his vision of Russia with no thieves and murderers..03:23:11
Russia where there's no poverty. Russia where the pensions are higher than 12 or 14 thousand roubles.03:23:22
This is such a shame.03:23:25
I get it. Fair elections. Putin leaves and there is a turmoil.03:23:30
Prigozhin becomes the president. You said it couldn't get any worse.03:23:34
What if Prigozhin becomes the next president?03:23:36
He can't be the next president.03:23:37
Are you sure about that?03:23:38
I think so.03:23:39
Prigozhin is a very interesting character.03:23:41
His PMC in Ukraine and Africa is one of the most interesting topics for investigations.03:23:54
This is a phenomena. He hires the prisoners and sends them to war.03:24:08
90% die and 10% come back and become heroes.03:24:15
They get amnesty. And formally there is no such thing as PMC in Russia.03:24:21
This is an illegal organization.03:24:24
This is extremely interesting. This is an incredible crime.03:24:32
Prigozhin would get arrested as soon as we have a new president.03:24:37
I'm sure about that.03:24:40
He would get arrested for all of his crimes.03:24:43
He can't be the president.03:24:45
He can do a military coup..I hope the GKChP would lose again and their hands would be shaking.03:25:05
I don't believe that Prigozhin might be a successor.03:25:09
There is a turmoil.03:25:11
How can we organize fair elections? How can ACF do this from Europe?03:25:19
Why would we be in Europe?03:25:20
I think we all would come back to Moscow on the first available flight.03:25:29
As soon as we're sure we won't get arrested upon arrival.03:25:34
I can assure you I would do it.03:25:38
There's a criminal case initiated against me for spreading fake news about Russian army.03:25:41
This law was introduced two days ago in a big hurry.03:25:52
It was written by crooks and signed by Putin.03:25:53
This law would be lifted.03:25:55
This makes sense. Every time the government changes..03:25:59
I believe that the most laws which were adopted by a illegitimate parliament since 2011 would be cancelled.03:26:06
Wait. I get it.03:26:09
If the fake news law is lifted there is no criminal case..03:26:12
Who would lift this law? There's no Putin. Who would lift it?03:26:16
One of the bulldogs.03:26:17
Would a bulldog repeal the law?03:26:19
Of course, he would.03:26:20
Why? Bulldog would benefit from this law.03:26:23
Why?03:26:24
The fake news law? They need it to keep everything as horrible as possible.03:26:30
How can one variable change and another stay? If Putin's gone the war is gone, too.03:26:37
What fake news are you talking about if there's no war?03:26:39
I see the obvious relation between Putin leaving and this horrible war ending.03:26:48
Okay. Why are you so sure there would be no dictatorship?03:26:52
The dictatorship would be in someone else's hands.03:26:54
Putin's system is Putin-centric.03:27:00
As any other dictatorship.03:27:04
Hardly ever the dictatorship can be transferred.03:27:15
North Korea.03:27:17
This is the only example.03:27:18
There are many cases of a dictator dying and the cult of personality falling.03:27:31
Ceausescu, the godlike ruler, the genius of the Carpathian, the full-flowing Danube was shot.03:27:43
I can't think of a system where there's no successor..Putin doesn't have one.03:27:57
He doesn't have a successor to keep this ambiguity.03:28:03
How can the dictatorship go on? What would it be based on?03:28:11
Is there a dictatorship in Iran?03:28:15
There is. Iran is different from us. They have a religious component.03:28:21
They are going through tragic events. This reminds us that the freedom can be lost very quickly.03:28:37
The protesters get shot in 2023. We shouldn't forget about that.03:28:44
Iran is very different from Russia. We can't compare these two.03:28:48
The Kazakhstan dictator has left and the elites have changed.03:28:55
Something is changing there in Kazakhstan.03:28:59
There are many countries in the post-USSR territories who had the same background as we did..03:29:10
We share the same past. And they have built a democracy.03:29:13
A Russian person doesn't need a dictator. Everyone who says about the servile mentality, cowardice, obedience to the tsar..03:29:28
is an enemy and a traitor. Russia doesn't need him.03:29:34
This person offends Russia and tells lies.03:29:37
This is not true. There is no demand for dictators in Russia.03:29:43
Nobody needs this. This is victim blaming. The victim gets blamed for the crimes against her.03:29:53
I urge everyone to stay away from this logic.03:30:03
I would say the same about the common responsibility and other ethical issues that are being discussed now.03:30:11
How guilty are we? How can we survive this?03:30:19
And so on.03:30:20
Are you a temporary resident or a UK citizen?03:30:23
I'm a citizen.03:30:24
For how long? Since 2019.03:30:28
Have you reported about it?03:30:29
I have. I have reported to the bodies.03:30:31
You haven't lived in Russia since 200..You've spent some time in Russia..03:30:39
Since 2006. 2006? For sixteen years.03:30:42
Almost seventeen.03:30:43
Seventeen. Have you felt like you missed out something while you were away?03:30:58
Of course, I did. I didn't fulfill my dream.03:31:02
I wanted to join Navalny in his presidential campaign and travel around Russia in his tour.03:31:11
They've been everywhere. This was my big dream but I couldn't come because I had too much work.03:31:16
I couldn't go.03:31:19
I haven't been to many cities in Russia. Unfortunately.03:31:25
You all know how my first trip to Siberia ended.03:31:29
I'm extremely interested in visiting Russian cities.03:31:34
Going to Kostroma and Bui as a watchdog was a huge event for me.03:31:41
I've always dreamt of driving around the country.03:31:46
I wanted to see the Far East.03:31:48
I feel like a tourist when I'm traveling around Russia.03:31:53
I don't know anything about the country.03:31:58
I'm listening to the people. I'm looking at them.03:32:03
They come to shake Alexei's hand. People in Tomsk, Novosibirsk..03:32:06
I realize that these people are different from me. Their priorities are different.03:32:14
Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with London.03:32:16
The problem is in Moscow.03:32:18
Every time I see teenagers who come to take a picture with Navalny..03:32:27
They have an Android phone that four of them bought together.03:32:31
I need to keep this in my head.03:32:35
When we do our investigations we need to remember it.03:32:42
I admit that I left Russia quite early and I've missed out a lot.03:32:53
My job has always been related to Russia. I came back for a couple of years.03:33:00
I came back in 2010-2011.03:33:02
I would spend six months in Russia when I had an opportunity.03:33:06
I know there is a problem. I'm trying to fix it every day.03:33:12
How?03:33:13
I'm reading. I'm watching videos. I talk to people.03:33:17
On the New Year's Eve we allowed people to make calls on our show.03:33:23
It was similar to how people called MTV in the 1990's.03:33:27
You can hear a voice in the studio.03:33:29
People called us from all over the world.03:33:31
Russia, Ukraine..03:33:36
This was my chance to talk to people.03:33:43
I would listen to them and memorize.03:33:45
Of course, I'm sorry I can't be there now.03:33:54
I'm sorry we are here. I'm sure I would continue learning and I would see Russia again some day.03:34:07
I've learnt a lot in Great Britain and other countries I lived in: Belgium, Lithuania..03:34:18
This experience is precious.03:34:22
I don't think that I wasted my time when I came here to study.03:34:30
It didn't damage my political career.03:34:33
My views, my personality, my knowledge, my feelings, my principles..03:34:46
I've learnt it all here.03:34:49
I saw it here.03:34:52
In Europe. I've found out that a good life is achievable.03:35:02
A state doesn't always equal repressions.03:35:05
You don't need to cross the road when you see a policeman.03:35:09
You don't have to be scared when someone knocks on your door. This is probably a mailman.03:35:15
This is important. I appreciate being able to live two lives at the same time.03:35:27
I see it as an advantage, not a flaw.03:35:32
They say that being a foreign agent is bad..03:35:38
I usually tell them that it's a big gift.03:35:42
I have an opportunity to see both sides. I can take the best from all countries.03:35:47
This is how it works.03:35:52
Don't you feel like Russia needs a program for the future? I am not hearing this program from you.03:36:01
You're saying a bunch of motivating stuff..Don't you feel like we need a common dream?03:36:16
You don't like to dream of getting rid of Putin.03:36:19
Okay. What did ACF do last year to get rid of Putin?03:36:26
How did you actions get us closer to it?03:36:30
Let me tell you about one of our investigations.03:36:37
Putin had his favorite yacht. A brand new yacht.03:36:45
Scheherezade? Scheherezade. People used to think this was Khudainatov's yacht.03:36:51
We were running around telling everyone this was a Putin's yacht.03:36:57
We urged Europe to arrest it.03:37:01
This yacht got arrested because of our investigation and the investigation on the New York Times reporters.03:37:15
It got arrested in Italy in the last minute before leaving.03:37:18
This yacht is under arrest now even though it belongs to Khudainatov, not Putin.03:37:24
Italian authorities trusted our evidence and took this yacht away from Putin.03:37:32
We hit Putin in his weak spot.03:37:39
This is the reason he stole everything and started this war.03:37:44
He likes money. He likes wealth.03:37:48
We didn't hit a member of his system, which is important, too.03:37:55
We hit his favorite yacht that was sponsored by Timchenko and other oligarchs.03:38:05
He used to have a boat that cost 750 million dollars. Now he doesn't have one.03:38:13
He committed many crimes to get this yacht. He clearly needed it.03:38:21
I hope the Europeans would sell it at auction and send all the money to re-build Ukraine.03:38:36
Investigations is my only tool of getting rid of Putin.03:38:44
If I was good at wearing camouflage and running around the forest with a Molotov's..I would do it.03:38:57
I can't do that, though.03:39:00
I'm good at investigations.03:39:02
This yacht is an easy target. I can give you a lot more examples.03:39:12
Including Timur Ivanov. We only have one goal: to hurt Putin.03:39:21
This is why I joined ACF twelve years ago.03:39:27
I met Navalny and told him I wanted to do something to liberate my country from this oppression.03:39:38
From the yoke of a KGB loser from Saint Petersburg.03:39:44
Why is he ruling my country?03:39:47
Why does he decide how we live?03:39:49
Why is he getting us where we are now?03:39:55
Why do 30% of Russians don't have sewerage in 2023?03:40:01
I couldn't get it twelve years ago. How can one mean and not really smart person ruin a country?03:40:17
I'm trying to hit him in his weak spots for twelve years.03:40:24
I'm trying to hurt him, to get rid of him. I am.03:40:31
I'm taking revenge for what he's done.03:40:35
I'm trying to make everyone finally see it.03:40:39
I think that this system needs to be totally destroyed.03:40:47
I can do the investigations. My colleagues are opening headquarters.03:40:54
My other colleagues are making lists. Some are going live every day.03:40:59
Some of them write articles on Telegram.03:41:02
Some of them post tweets.03:41:05
Some do the sociology during this war.03:41:08
We do all of this in ACF.03:41:10
We're trying everything we can.03:41:13
You'll see when something works.03:41:21
I can't understand why are you standing up for them?
You're on of the few journalists that managed to not become a piece of shit.03:41:35
Why are you standing up for people who compromised with the system?03:41:38
Why?03:41:41
First of all, thank you for this compliment.03:41:42
I think we can't judge everyone by our experience.03:41:47
If we've managed to stay uncompromising and continue talking to people..03:42:05
I'm talking about a period when we lived in Russia and we were in danger for calling to protests in 2019.03:42:17
People were getting beaten up.03:42:19
We can't judge other by our measures.03:42:21
This is what I think.03:42:23
Where am I judging by my own experience?03:42:26
In 2019 I could call people to protests. I understood all the risks.03:42:33
It was more important for me to stay true to myself than to keep my sponsorships..03:42:48
I would risk being prosecuted.03:42:56
Between not getting in trouble and speaking up I chose speaking up.03:43:06
I can't judge those who didn't do it.03:43:09
Some people can take the risk and some can't.03:43:11
You're not judging by your experience..03:43:14
What do you call it then?03:43:15
This is your moral norm. Your conscience.03:43:18
I'm not a moral standard. I would never want to be one.03:43:21
This is why I can't be so radical.03:43:25
I can be upset for people who didn't speak out.03:43:30
Forget about yourself. It has nothing to do with you.03:43:39
When I'm talking about others I'm not comparing them to myself.03:43:48
I never say what I did compared to them.03:43:50
I've never done that.03:43:55
This is not about me. Every person, especially people from the intellectual elites, who have seen a lot and read a lot..03:44:12
They are so smart..They have to come to this conclusion.03:44:26
If they don't..This is their choice.03:44:31
I think it's not about comparing them to yourself.03:44:34
This is about what it should be.03:44:36
This is about people being different. That's what it's about.03:44:38
I think we should approach everyone individually.03:44:40
I want your ideas to get more supporters in Russia.03:44:51
I know for sure that you need to approach people differently.03:44:55
You need to approach people individually.03:45:01
When Navalny went on tour before the elections..03:45:08
He was still stiff and so on..However, he was able to talk to anyone.03:45:22
Including the elderly people03:45:26
Nowadays you're not doing that.03:45:29
I know you're angry that your leader is in prison.03:45:31
There is a horrible war going on.03:45:33
I get it but I don't see a way out.03:45:38
There is no way we can make Friedman..I don't want to protect him..03:45:45
Friedman is a sensitive topic..03:45:47
or even Galitsky. We can't make them support you.03:45:52
I might be wrong..But if we want to make them support you we'd need to find a different approach.03:46:06
This is it.03:46:07
Why do you think I need to offer something to them?03:46:13
Because this is what politics is about. I would never wish to be involved in politics.03:46:22
I don't like politics because you need to compromise.03:46:29
You can be uncompromising person. We would all like to be one.03:46:37
You can't be uncompromising in politics.03:46:42
You'd need to offer something to others.03:46:45
Where would you draw the line? How far would you go?03:46:48
Think of a red line.03:46:49
What about Potanin? Friedman?03:46:51
You decide. Those who privatized government companies.03:46:57
Those who supported Putin.03:47:01
Have you ever conducted an investigation about Friedman?03:47:03
We haven't.03:47:05
Galitsky, neither.03:47:06
Tinkov, neither.03:47:07
There can be a red line.03:47:10
There is a certain degree of compromise you can reach.03:47:15
It is okay. I'm not talking about these specific people.03:47:19
If you offer them something people won't be scared of you like you're a bunch of bolsheviks.03:47:28
They would probably talk to you and help you reach our common goal.03:47:37
And change the regime and end this war. Try to make Russia a normal country again.03:47:46
We're not the only chance to do it. They had this chance.03:47:51
Last February everyone was talking the split within the elites.03:47:56
They said anyone could be holding a snuff box in his hand ready to kill Putin.03:48:04
They had this chance. They could do anything back then.03:48:14
Who used this chance? Who tried to stop Putin?03:48:27
Almost nobody.03:48:29
I'd like to have this conversation in 2018. Or even 2019.03:48:41
We could talk about individual approach and the degree of compromise.03:48:54
This is a very interesting topic because it relates to everyone.03:48:59
Russian literature is mainly focused on that.03:49:04
This would always be relevant.03:49:07
In 2023 we can't be talking about that..03:49:20
How would I forgive myself for ignoring this..03:49:30
We're not talking about ourselves. We don't need to become best friends with them.03:49:36
Our goal is to live in a country which has a future.03:49:46
We need to figure this out.03:49:50
I'm waiting for a plan from the most influential political organization, ACF.03:50:00
Besides people who pretend to be Russian authorities..03:50:05
I'm waiting for your plan.03:50:08
I only hear insults on Twitter..There are investigations, no problem with that.03:50:18
But mainly you're posting insults on Twitter, Zhdanov is calling his opponent a fat asshole..03:50:26
I can't understand how it is getting us closer to the Beautiful Russia of the Future.03:50:29
You said your goal was to get rid of Putin.03:50:33
Okay. This makes sense.03:50:37
This is a dead end, however. I want to know what would happen next.03:50:46
Even if Putin falls tomorrow..We'd be in a nightmare.03:50:55
I would like to hear a plan from the politicians.03:51:06
We have a president for you. He's now in prison with a homeless guy and a mentally ill guy.03:51:12
This guy is howling right now.03:51:15
I have a president for you. He would give you anything you want.03:51:21
He's a great manager. He's built the most influential political organization, as you called it.03:51:29
He's had two successful campaigns.03:51:35
He's acknowledged all around the world. He's considered a leader of Russian opposition.03:51:42
He's still on the newspapers and magazines covers.03:51:49
I get it..03:51:51
He's ready.03:51:52
First of all, I don't want him to become a president automatically.03:51:57
I want to see the elections.03:51:58
I want to see his competitors and choose from them.03:52:02
This is crucial for me as a voter.03:52:04
This is your right.03:52:05
How do you see it? When something happens to Putin, his successor won't release everyone from the prison and hold fair elections.03:52:20
The power would be transferred to other people who have a PMC.
I don't think Navalny, Yashin and my other candidates would be released by this people.03:52:36
Why do you only see the negative side?03:52:42
I need to be prepared for the worst.03:52:44
This is wrong. There are a few influential groups which would be fighting after Putin's gone.03:52:50
Can you tell me about the positive scenario? What happens after Putin's gone?03:52:58
Why do the Generals, FSB, and Prigozhin lose?03:53:02
One of the conditions of the peace agreement after Russian troops are withdrawn from Ukraine would be the fair elections.03:53:26
So the Generals are told this:"If you want to be able to travel around the world.."03:53:33
No. We're at the war now. It can't just stop.03:53:38
This won't be swallowed as the Crimea annexation was in the West.03:53:46
This is one of the reasons this war is happening now.03:53:52
We're at the war. There is a genocide happening.03:53:57
We're talking about the nuclear threat now. There are tens of thousands of dead people from each side.03:54:05
This would never end if we don't do something.03:54:09
There has to be an end.03:54:11
We'd have to live with this for the next couple of decades.03:54:23
We'd have to pay. We'd have to..03:54:27
The repairs?03:54:28
Yes. We'd have to re-build our relationship with the world.03:54:33
Our economy has shrank. The big companies have left our country.03:54:45
We're trying to replace them and we're also importing their goods illegally.03:54:49
The technologies have left the country.03:54:52
This would end with a consensus.03:54:59
I'm not talking about an actual agreement, which might happen, too.03:55:04
Russia would probably lose this war.03:55:11
Russia would have to sign an agreement.03:55:16
This consensus would define the future of our country.03:55:26
This is a possible scenario. I don't want you to be focused on the negative scenario..03:55:35
Where Prigozhin and Zolotov would put on their medals and rule the country.03:55:39
"I would hit you as a steak. You're made in an American laboratory". This is what Zolotov said to Navalny.03:55:44
There is a scenario where the war ends and the new agreement would conduct fair elections in Russia.03:55:58
All the political prisoners would be released.03:56:08
Like that.03:56:10
And the North Korea scenario is also possible.03:56:12
Is this possible? I don't know about that.03:56:18
Maybe I've become too optimistic..I know saying this in front of a big audience is a risk..03:56:26
But I believe this scenario is impossible.03:56:29
Do you think Navalny would be proud of ACF when he comes out of prison and goes through all of the things you did while he was gone? Or would he be ashamed?03:56:51
I'm absolutely sure he would be proud.03:56:58
And the final one: what is power?03:57:01
I was scared of this question. I don't like questions that don't have a clear answer.03:57:08
This is one of those questions.03:57:12
Truth is power, honesty is power, justice is power..03:57:17
I think that it depends on the situation.03:57:23
Sometimes being the loudest is power.03:57:29
Sometimes staying silent is power.03:57:35
Sometimes being compassionate and forgiving is power.03:57:45
Sometimes not forgiving and not forgetting is power.03:57:52
There are times when taking responsibility and making a decision is power.03:58:05
Sometimes accepting there are things you can't change is power.03:58:17
I guess, being able to differentiate between these situations and adjust while staying true to yourself is power.03:58:32
Love is power, too, of course.Description:
Переходи по ссылке https://surfshark.com/deal/influencer?coupon=yury – используй промокод YURY и получи скидку 83% и 3 месяца в подарок! Если в вашем регионе не работает Surfshark, обратитесь в службу поддержки – в течение 30 дней с момента покупки вам вернут полную сумму за подписку 18+ НАСТОЯЩИЙ МАТЕРИАЛ (ИНФОРМАЦИЯ) ПРОИЗВЕДЕН, РАСПРОСТРАНЕН ИНОСТРАННЫМ АГЕНТОМ ДУДЕМ ЮРИЕМ АЛЕКСАНДРОВИЧЕМ ЛИБО КАСАЕТСЯ ДЕЯТЕЛЬНОСТИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА ДУДЯ ЮРИЯ АЛЕКСАНДРОВИЧА Авиасейлс – пропаганда дешёвых авиабилетов среди совершеннолетних: https://www.aviasales.ru/ Реклама. Рекламодатель ООО "Авиасейлс Медиа" - LjN8KH8kF Мария Певчих – расследовательница и соратница Алексея Навального. 0:00 Вперед! 0:37 Почему мы встретились в Лондоне 5:13 Как фильм «Navalny» спасает жизнь Навальному 9:36 Дудь – на родине интернета 13:03 Как сделать расследование из коридорного фото 16:17 Что происходит с Навальным сейчас? 20:26 Второй по площади дом Великобритании – у олигарха из России 25:30 А почему это русскому олигарху нельзя купить дом в Лондоне? 29:48 Великобритания борется с Путиным, но укрывает воров. Это норм? 37:22 Кто ты и откуда? 42:31 Откуда у тебя деньги на учебу в Лондоне? 44:02 Что не так с соцфаком МГУ 47:19 Кем работал твой отец? 48:41 Ликбез про британские ВУЗы (8 пар в неделю) 53:16 Мария писала диплом у Александра Дугина. Как так получилось? 1:00:03 Путин прислушивается к Дугину? 1:03:05 Каким Медведев был 13 лет назад 1:05:20 «Мою кошку сбила машина, разберитесь, пожалуйста». Чем занимаются депутаты из Британии 1:08:22 С тобой учился сын Каддафи 1:14:35 Где ты работала до того, как стать расследовательницей? 1:16:32 У тебя есть квартира в Лондоне? 1:17:47 Как ты познакомилась с Навальным? 1:22:50 Почему ты не сказала про ипотеку Скабеевой и Попова? 1:27:28 Как летает дрон над резиденциями Путина и Медведева? (Вопрос от Николая Солодникова) 1:33:14 Откуда у вас выписки по банковским счетам дирижера Гергиева? 1:36:32 Можно ли дать взятку, чтобы избежать мобилизации? 1:40:54 В чем твоя претензия к Фридману? 1:48:13 Галицкий – соучастник режима? 1:57:18 Можно ли презирать человека за страх? 1:58:26 Почему на «Популярной политике» такие желтые заголовки? 2:04:08 Называть гостя эфира «жирной тварью» – это норм? 2:08:21 Грубый твит про Дурова 2:10:21 Радикализм мешает ФБК стать популярнее? 2:16:09 Роман Абрамович – мастер переизобретения себя 2:24:13 Как работает мягкая сила 2:29:52 Если бы Абрамович закончил войну, ты бы простила его? 2:31:38 «Список 6000» 2:33:59 Почему вы призываете к санкциям против Собчак? 2:35:35 Почему вы призываете к санкциям против Венедиктова? 2:44:00 В чем виноват Олег Кашин? 2:46:34 Почему из «списка 6000» исключили создателей системы распознавания лиц? 2:51:01 Твой отец – соучастник режима? 2:55:49 Как вы работаете без Навального? 2:57:18 Почему у вас воровали данные сторонников? 3:05:38 «Выполняй задания по борьбе с Путиным – и получай баллы». Что это?! 3:07:53 Как поменять сторону тем, кто работает на режим? 3:15:51 Видишь ли ты себя политиком? 3:19:44 Есть ли у вас план будущего России? 3:25:09 Разве без Путина в России не сохранится диктатура? 3:30:20 У тебя есть паспорт Великобритании? 3:35:51 Что конкретно вы сделали для свержения Путина за последний год? 3:41:21 «Компромиссники» 3:52:07 Россия без Путина 3:56:58 В чем сила?
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